Tejas Networks Limited (TEJASNET) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Tejas Networks Earnings Conference Call hosted by Emkay Global Financial Services Limited. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Pranav Kshatriya from Emkay Global Financial Services Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Good evening. I would like to welcome the management and thank them for this opportunity. We have with us today Mr. Arnob Roy, Executive Director and Chief Operating Officer; Mr. Sumit Dhingra, Chief Financial Officer; Dr. Kumar N. Sivarajan, Chief Technology Officer; and Mr. Sanjay Malik, Chief Strategy and Business Officer. I shall now hand over the call to the management for the opening remarks. Over to you, sir. Thank you.

Hello. Good evening, everyone, and welcome to Tejas Networks quarter 2 earnings call. I'm on the first slide, our Q2 revenue was INR 262 crores as opposed to INR 202 crores in quarter 1. Profit after tax was a loss of INR 307 crores as opposed to a loss of INR 194 crores in quarter 1. And this loss included inventory and warranty-related provisions of INR 190 crores, and we will be discussing the details later on. We ended the quarter with an order book of INR 1,200 crores as opposed to INR 1,241 crores in Q1. Our revenue mix for the quarter was, again -- 79% of our revenues in India and 21% international. Our order book mix was largely India 93% and 7% international. So in summary, in Q2, the reason -- one of the reasons for the smaller revenue and bookings was the delay in the receipt of 4G -- BSNL 4G add-on PO of INR 1,500 crores for 18k sites. As we had mentioned earlier, TCS has received the APO, but it has not yet got converted into PO, and we are waiting for BSNL, who has just launched this service across 97,000 sites. And as soon as we are ready to take in the additional equipment for deployment, that's the time when we expect the POs to be issued. The quarter's revenue was led by key shipments to our India private customers and international customers. And the INR 190 crores of additional provisions were worked through the expenses. And we included the provision due to manufacturing process losses, which happened during the large manufacturing [indiscernible] and -- as well as additional provisions for warranty and inventory obsolescence. Total of INR 190 crores was additional provision that was done for the quarter. A few highlights for the quarter. For our wireless business, the big event was the inauguration of BSNL's nationwide 4G network by the Honorable Prime Minister. And as of today, 97,500 cell towers are running on our 4G RAN products. So this has been a very, very significant achievement in launching this network. We have become the fifth country in the world to have a complete 4G, 5G stack, technology stack. This network is carrying 4 petabytes of data and has 26 million active subscribers. So it is carrying network traffic to scale and has been performing extremely well in all metrics, in all kind of all comparisons that you can think of. During -- we recently had the Indian Mobile Congress event. And during that event, we launched our new 64T64R massive MIMO radio, and this was launched by the honorable MoC. We also successfully completed our first 5G RAN deployment under BSNL's Captive Non-Public Network program in a coal mine in MP. We also successfully completed 4G/5G RAN POC in our mobile operator's network in South Asia, and we expect to convert into a successful commercial order for this network. We also started multiple POCs, which are ongoing and other engagements with multiple domestic and international operators for our 4G and 5G radios. And finally, our SDR chip, the SL-3000 has been integrated into multiple smartphones, feature phones and laptops. And this is going to be a boost for the D2M, the direct-to-mobile application, that we have -- we are pioneers of both in terms of end devices as well as the radio transmission equipment. For the wireless business, we won the additional BharatNet Phase 3 orders from multiple system integration partners for our IP/MPLS routers. And we have now -- are going to be the supplier of the largest number of packages for BharatNet Phase 3. We launched our state-of-the-art 1.2 terabits DWDM transmission system product at the Indian Mobile Congress. We won multiple 400-gig deployments for customers in India, Europe, Cambodia, Ghana and Nigeria. We deployed our first 10-gig CPON or ComboPON solution in Europe, and we continue to receive expansion orders from private telcos in India. A few other updates. Dr. Randhir Thakur joined our Board as Non-Executive and Non-Independent Director. Dr. Thakur is the CEO and MD of Tata Electronics with over 40 years of experience in the semiconductor industry. He was the President of Intel Foundry Services and Corporate VP and Chief Supply Chain Officer, Intel Corporation. He has held leadership positions in Applied Materials, SanDisk, Micron Electrodes, et cetera. And we hope to leverage his extensive industry experience in guiding us in our product strategy, in our semiconductor strategy as well as evolving our supply chain strategy. Tejas was -- one of the highlights was Tejas was shortlisted as a finalist of the 2025 Network X Awards in Paris, in the category of the Most Innovative Optical Transport Use Case for our Intelligent Alien Wavelength solution with which we have won multiple customer network opportunities based on this technology. During the quarter, we filed 39 patents and the total number of patents stands at 587. I will now hand it over to our CFO, Sumit, to walk you through the detailed financials.

Thanks, Arnob. Good evening, everyone. Our financial update for the quarter is as follows. For the quarter 2, we did a revenue of INR 262 crores compared to INR 202 crores in the previous quarter, which implies a quarter-on-quarter growth of about 30%. EBIT for the quarter was negative INR 394 crores compared to INR 232 crores in the previous quarter and PBT of negative INR 473 crores compared to INR 297 crores in the previous quarter. I think some of the profitability figures are impacted with the provisions and charges that we've incurred during the quarter as Arnob briefly mentioned in the initial section. Adjusting for those expenses, EBIT would have been negative INR 205 crores and EBIT would have been -- PBT would have been INR 285 crores negative. These expenses that we're talking about primarily consist of 2 buckets. One is provisions for inventory obsolescence and write-down of about INR 145 crores, which is mainly on account of certain manufacturing processes losses, design changes and some of the other related matters and warranty expenses or warranty provisions amounting to INR 44 crores for the quarter, determined on the basis of potential fault rates, repair requirements, et cetera, based on what we see in the field. Moving on to the next slide, which talks about key balance sheet items. Inventory for the quarter -- at the end of the quarter stood at INR 2,383 crores. It has come off slightly compared to the previous quarter, and it will be converted to finished goods and shipped in the upcoming months. As we've explained in some of the earlier calls, we've taken advanced inventory action in anticipation of some of large orders and hence, the inventory number is high. And as those orders materialize, we'll sort of be able to convert into finished goods and ship them out. Receivables for the end of the quarter stood at INR 4,026 crores. We collected INR 700 crores during the quarter. And receivables, I think, continue to be on the higher side on account of BSNL 4G order-related collections that are linked to certain milestones, which will get completed over the next 2 to 3 quarters. We expect to get a significant amount of these collections through -- during this year. Payables have come down from INR 580 crores to INR 355 crores and borrowings for the quarter or the end of the quarter stood at INR 4,156 crores. A large part of these borrowings is for working capital purposes, mainly for -- because of higher inventory and receivables and would -- is expected to come down as we realize the working capital. Partly this borrowing is also on account of CapEx that we've been incurring in ramping up our product portfolio. With this, I'll just hand over to Arnob to talk.

So to conclude, our long-term outlook remains positive. We are very bullish about the company's future business. There are -- the drivers for our business still remain strong, and there are rapid technology transitions that are happening, which give us the opportunity to enter new customer accounts and new territories as we evolve our product portfolio in line with those changes. So from a trend perspective, the data consumption, both fixed and mobile continue to grow rapidly. AI applications, new AI applications are driving traffic growth across the networks. 5G deployment will continue to -- are predicted to continue till 2030 when the 6G standardization comes in. And 4G deployments are still expanding in emerging markets. So both of these give us a good opportunity to grow our wireless business in international markets. There are massive investments happening in AI data centers, driving huge connectivity requirements, which will drive our networking business. 400-gig WDM (sic) [ DWDM ] is growing rapidly, and there is early adoption of 800-gig WDM (sic) [ DWDM ], which is happening, and our products are in time and proven to leverage this growth that is happening in the backbone connectivity business. 10-gigabit PON is starting to pick up in emerging markets and 50-gigabit PON is getting deployed in advanced markets. So our product portfolio for -- which is -- which has the 10-gig PON products and as we are working on a road map for developing a 50-gig product, these are in line with the emerging growth of these products in these markets. And we continue to invest in our product development and sales expansion. There's a lot of activity which is happening on the wireless front. And I'll hand it over to Kumar to kind of talk through our wireless plan.

Thank you, Arnob. So we've completed deployment of the 4G network and BSNL. Arnob talked about that. And those radios are upgradable to 5G in whatever band they are. However, since that, over the last 2 years, we've been working on a brand-new portfolio of both the radios and the baseband unit that goes at the bottom of the tower for 5G. So we've developed radios in the entire frequency band going from 450 megahertz at the low end to 4.9 gigahertz at the highest end. The radios in 3.5 gigahertz and 4.9 gigahertz are massive MIMO radios. We exhibited some of them at IMC. And the massive MIMO radio in particular, that we have at 3.5 gigahertz, which is also the India band for 5G is 64TR, 64 transmitters, 64 receivers, has 320 watts of power and matches the best in industry that is available to table, okay? In addition, in order to be able to address the global market for 5G, we are developing variations for every continent that we are engaged in. So for example, for 700 megahertz, we have the radio for India, which is in band 28. We have a variation of the radio for Africa, which is in band 20 as well as one for Latin America, which is band 12. They're all nearby. So we are investing in products, especially radios to address the entire market worldwide. We're also ensuring these are state-of-the-art and competitive with the best available. There are also 2 schools of thought when it comes to 5G. One is the traditional 3GPP, where the entire radio network comes from one vendor. There is also the Open RAN movement. There's an ORAN alliance, where you try to separate the radio from the rest of the access network, which is called the CUDU, the Cloud (sic) [ Centralized ] Unit, Distributed Unit. So we are investing in both. We are ORAN compliant. We're also -- we can also deploy as per the 3GPP architecture. When it comes to ORAN, in order to be able to interoperate with multiple other partners, we have partnered with both NEC and Rakuten to address the ORAN market. In particular, with Rakuten, we can supply our radio units and their CUDU software. And with that, we can address customers worldwide who are looking at ORAN. While we are deploying 5G today in most markets, we are also deploying 4G in markets such as Africa, where there is a lot of 4G to be deployed. The world is also looking at 6G, and in particular, India is looking to lead in 6G. The government has made announcements that we should lead the world in 6G, while we are marching with them in 5G. So to participate in this, we have been active in the standardization bodies around the world for 6G, primarily 3GPP, but also the ORAN Alliance and something called TIP. We also participated in ITU, along with the rest of the India delegation. And here, we are trying to understand the thinking around 6G from the rest of the world, including other OEMs, other operators. We have our own contributions to achieve the goals of 6G that have been set out, which includes ubiquitous connectivity, use of artificial intelligence, integrated sensing. And we're also developing our own intellectual property in these areas. And we will -- our goal is to have a 6G product as early as possible in line with the rest of the market and not lag there. So I will pause there and hand it over to Arnob. Yes. So international engagements, we are engaged in markets, particularly in the developed markets as -- with the Open RAN architecture with our RUs in -- with our partners, and you can see Rakuten. We're also engaged in developing markets for a full 4G and 5G solution, which includes Africa, Asia, rest of Asia and Latin America. And we are seeing traction for our solutions, both 4G, 5G and Open RAN in these markets.

Thanks, Kumar. I also mentioned the huge data growth that is happening, which is driving the expansion of the backbone networks. And as I mentioned that we are winning a lot of 400-gig deployments, which are peaking right now. And as we speak, we also expanded our portfolio with 800-gig and 1.2-terabit product launches, and we look forward to leveraging the transition and growth in that market when the technology evolves to 800-gig and 1.2-terabit. We're also investing in evolving our data center interconnect products to leverage the interconnect growth that is happening because of the massive investment in AI data centers. And in our optical products, we had several strategic wins in Europe, Africa and Asia for also optical products, and this gives us momentum for our international business expansion. So in summary, I mean, we continue to invest and we continue to remain bullish about our future based on the trends that we see across the business, across the customers and the technology trends that we see. So with that, we come to a close of our opening statements, and we can open the floor for Q&A.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Hirenkumar Thakorlal Desai, an individual investor.

Can you hear me?

Yes, we can hear you.

So my question really is the fact that now I think we are pretty much done with the BSNL order, although the add-on is likely and maybe 5G upgrade is likely. But in the absence of end business, do you have an estimate of what is our run rate revenue required for the breakeven, given that we have larger R&D investments, et cetera?

So as of now, we don't have data to discuss in that front, what was the breakeven number.

Yes. The second question is, are we likely to get these orders in current financial year or mostly likely to spill over?

As of now -- yes, yes, yes. I think as you know, we have taken a lot of proactive action in building the inventory and in the components as well as some of the finished goods. And we know that TCS has received the advanced purchase orders. And we expect as soon as BSNL is ready to expand the network, I think this purchase orders will come. And we are expecting it in this financial year. All of it will not get shipped in this financial year based on when the PO comes. But yes, we are expecting the PO to come in this financial year.

And now that we have deployed 4G, are we sort of in the stage of POC or something of that sort either with private operators or outside of India?

I think, Sanjay will be able to answer that question.

Yes. Hi, Sanjay here. So definitely yes with the current...

Hiren, could you mute your phone? I think there is a lot of background noise.

Yes, yes, I will.

So with the current portfolio which we have and whatever we are developing, which Dr. Kumar covered, yes, we are engaged with quite a few operators outside India also in the international market. And definitely, yes, all these engagements go through multiple technical discussion and maybe POC. So with that, we are expecting some closures with the international operators also going forward.

And also what we're seeing is that it is a little longer cycle from the time of initial engagement through the technical discussions and kind of a thing, but quite a lot of engagements are in fairly advanced stages as well. Hiren, you're on mute, in case you're asking anything...

Yes, yes, yes. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Yes, so one last question is this quarter and last quarter, previous quarter, we had some of this write-down of, I don't know, some manufacturing-related losses or inventory as you mentioned. Are we pretty much done with it, or it might go on for another quarter or so?

So I think -- see, some of these aspects related to inventory evaluation for realizable value for obsolescence and marketability, et cetera, these are ongoing efforts that keep happening for us and for everybody else in the manufacturing domain. So to that extent, I think whether it is related to obsolescence, whether it is related to scrap-related or design changes, all those evaluations are an ongoing impact. I think to some extent where they are manufacturing-related or process-related losses, these typically have been on account of the large manufacturing that we undertook over the last few quarters. And that, I think, is something that we don't expect to have recurrence of that in large numbers. And -- but other than that, I think the ongoing efforts on ensuring that we reflect the true picture of inventory is something that as a policy would continue going forward.

The next question is from the line of Vidhan Kumar from Chanakya Capital.

Can you hear me?

Yes.

Just wanted to ask, is Tejas capable enough, or does it plan to make itself relevant in the whole process or value chain of data center building? And on the lines of the same question, TCS announced a $4 billion to $5 billion of investment in data center. So can we assume that Tejas is going to get some of the revenue slice from there?

So I think, first of all, let me explain where are we -- which part of the data center business is connected to our products. So we are -- we don't build data centers. We don't build the equipment that goes inside the data centers, whether it's the AI data centers consisting of GPU -- areas of GPUs or high-end servers and all. But what we do is these data centers are distributed across nations globally, and they require a very high bandwidth connectivity between data centers and also from users to those data centers, right? And what we are also seeing is that the AI data centers, given the amount of consumption of power and other infrastructure, I mean, they are kind of getting built in a distributed fashion, in clusters. And they also require very low latency, high bandwidth connections, connectivity between data centers. And that's where we come in. We build the connectivity equipment, the networking or the transmission equipment, which provides this low latency and very high bandwidth connectivity between data centers. So yes, as the data center market grows, our business will benefit not because we are -- we build the data centers or the equipment inside, but the connectivity that is required between data centers or between the users and data centers, that's where our business will grow as a result of the expansion of the data center market. To the question of TCS, TCS investing in data centers, yes, I mean, a similar kind of opportunity will come our way. I mean -- and we have to obviously compete for those opportunities. But as TCS builds those infrastructure, yes, the connectivity requirements will drive -- will create an opportunity for our products and business. And yes, we have to compete for it, but that's going to be a strong opportunity for us as well.

Okay. Just a follow-up question. So in case of TCS awarding this communication -- TCS awarding this is the chance that you need to compete with the likes of Cisco, or is it something that is automatically understood that this would directly go to Tejas Networks?

No, there is -- for the TCS investment you meant?

Yes, yes, in that part of the...

Yes. I mean it's not -- no, I think nothing comes out. We are all companies. And on top of that, we are related parties. So I think no business really comes automatic. We have to compete for it, and we have to make sure our solutions are on par or better than competition. But yes, the thing is that we'll have the opportunity to engage in the sense that because they are part of the group, and that's where it would really end, that we'll get a fair chance at bidding for those and getting an opportunity to compete.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of [ Thadavati Saitrainder, ] an individual investor.

Congrats on the launch of the Ojas64 Massive radio. It is a great achievement for Tejas and for the India, but Q2 is somewhat bit soft. So can we expect some visible improvement in Q3?

Actually, as you know, we don't give guidance on our -- on the quarter-to-quarter or yearly performance in terms of actual numbers. What we try to do is give you a general outlook of the business environment, the drivers for our business and our own opportunities, our own investments in these areas to really leverage the opportunities that we see. So from that point of view, yes, Q2 has been soft, as you said. But the business -- the macro business environment remains strong and remains growing kind of a thing. And we are -- on the basis of that, even today, we are continuing to invest very significantly in R&D and products and also sales expansion because we are bullish about our future, and what we can leverage from the opportunities that we see. So I think that this probably gives you an indicator of what we see, where we see our -- the future of our business without getting into any specific quantification of future quarters or yearly performance.

The next question is from the line of Gaurav, an individual investor.

So my question is about the future plans. So as you know, we have been making negative pocket -- profit last couple of quarters, and I heard you talking about the future plans, the POs and all the ties and businesses, very optimistic plans. So I want to understand from your risk assessment, what are the top 2 risks you see, maybe, let's say, next 1 year, which may hinder your plans? And what is the mitigation plan you have for those risks?

I think the risk would be if we are not able to execute on our plans of our product development and if our products don't succeed in the opportunities in the trials and the opportunities that we have in hand, I would say there's only risk that we see of not performing. The opportunities are clearly there, and it is for us to execute with our expansion plans in the international markets as well as our product development. So as long as we beat our product road map and are able to -- and our products perform well in customer networks, in trials and POCs. I think that is where the risk mitigation really comes in, and that's the only risk that we see, and that is really under our control as well.

The next question is from the line of Amit, an individual investor.

My question is that what margins we play the write-offs and all the things which are coming after the execution, we are in profitability or loss?

Sorry, you're talking in context of this quarter, or is that a general question? I'm not able to follow.

Every order. In every order where we execute, what margins are coming and after all costings and on net profit, I'm asking about the net profit. The last 3 years, you are having good profits, but in last 3 quarters, you have write down around INR 600 crores, INR 700 crores. So you are talking about that the inventory -- after inventory come down, that's why I'm asking this question.

So see, I think for all the projects that we bid for and when they are at the -- with an underlying assumption of reasonable profitability. I think we don't get into specific project level profitability disclosures. But if you look at our material margins as per the disclosed statements, that would give an indication of where the project level profitability, or if you look at gross margin disclosures that we do, that will give you an idea for the project level profitability. I think what I can share also is that the profitability for international -- deployment for international projects are typically higher than what we see from the Indian customers. But at the same time, both -- for all the customer segments that we have, we are able to manage good profitability levels at all the customer segments. I think to your point on the recent quarters where the provisions and charges of -- charge-offs have been made, I think this is also -- has to be looked at in context of the large magnitude of orders that we executed in the previous year, right? And also some of the initiatives that we undertook, as we explained a couple of quarters back also that as we are coming off from that large project execution, then we undertook reviews of inventory, we undertook reviews of the manufacturing arrangements with our contract manufacturers and some of these are stemming out of that initiative. I think...

My question is that within large orders, after completing all the things and all the provisions, we are in negative or positive profitability?

No, we will not be...

No. Generally, we are -- we don't have negative profitability for any of the projects that we execute.

Okay, okay. And second, for future like coming 2 to 3 years, you are going to achieve good big numbers. I'm not asking about the guidance, but do you see bullish nature coming, continuing or 3 to 4 quarters like we're seeing?

Look, I think without getting into a specific quarter level guidance, I think, we continue to remain positive and bullish about the opportunity that we are participating in. What you see over the last 2 to 3 quarters or even a longer period. We've demonstrated our capability of our products and our execution over a large project in wireless, which was the first project that we were executing of this scale and of this nature. And also the large orders that have been executed in the previous 2 quarters -- previous 2 years on the wireline side. So I think what I'm trying to say is that we have all the ingredients and all capabilities in place to benefit from the opportunity that we have in front of us, and we continue to...

As an investor, I'm asking that you are -- your past is very good, very excellent. And future, you expect double, triple or less than past?

Yes. See, as Sumit said, we do not quantify in terms of our future...

No, no. You quantify the market, what big market you are this INR 10,000 crores, INR 20,000 crores, INR 50,000 crores, which type of market you are with 4G deployment, 4G stack in international or India market? What volumes will be in the market, and how much you can capture?

So I think broadly speaking, both wireless and wireline segments are upwards of $25 billion to $30 billion of annual opportunity globally. And over time, we would wish to participate in a meaningful manner in this market and have a reasonable market share. Beyond that, I think it will be difficult to give any specific...

It means INR 30,000 crore market is there. In billions means what INR 1,000 crores, can you please explain me?

Sorry, come again?

You can elaborate this $30 billion in to INR 1,000 crores, how much INR 1,000 crores market is there?

$30 billion is, INR 1 lakh...

INR 2 lakh crores roughly.

And you can -- have expectation of 10% to 20% or 30%, whichever scenario you take some thing in your company's, means, or any target you have [ set ] that we have 25% market cap. We are loosing -- there are 6 companies like Tejas, Nokia, Ericsson, they are -- we are a very new company, but we are in -- what share we can get, and what marketing is set so we can get this type of percentage of market?

Yes. So basically, yes, there is a large market size, especially for this wireless market and even for wireline market. Now on the wireless, basically, as you know, that the BSNL project, we started about 2 years ago, and we have entered into that. And then now we are into kind of some of the global opportunities also. So I think maybe difficult to give a specific number of market share as of now. But definitely, we will be growing in the international area.

As an investor, we want to stay invested or not. We have to decide in 3, 4 quarters. I'm not saying that 1 quarter, 2 quarter, 3 quarter, 4 quarters. In next 2 years, 3 years, we remain invested and we want to foresee that we would be there. If we would be not there, why we are invested. So we have to take a chance, some numbers, some data that this is the market like INR 2,000 to INR 3,000 crores. And we have executed -- we are very good in the execution. We are very good in 4G stack, 5G stack, because you are launching new products. But why selling has not come, that is the main moto, that our company sells -- our company get 20%, 30% share, that is an achievement and so investor can be sticking to your company and ownership is maintain. Every quarter we have lost, we are not having any percentage of market share, your pipeline, what is the exact pipeline for next 3 years, next 2 years, any data, you have to share to us. As an investor, we want to get the data in 3 years' pipeline, what's the number? If there is no number, there is only this talks, and we are getting operated. Some policy has to be changed.

Yes, yes. So we don't give 3-year pipeline. We only share the order book as it exists and that is...

In previous con call, you have given that order book, which is TCS PO. Nothing you have shared. Nothing you have shared for [ Bharatjee ] PO or advanced PO or any numbers, you have not shared anything. You are only sharing gimmicks. These are the market you see, please as a company investor, minority investor, we want to know what is going on in the company. We are only seeing the data in the share bucket in the anticipation that company is going to be INR 200, INR 100 in data. The future is very bleak. You are saying which is very bullish, but numbers are not presentable. The write-offs are very late, not at the manufacturing stage, not at the -- you have -- after completing project, 3 quarters, you are writing off, it is not a good thing.

Yes. I think thanks for your question. I understand your frustration...

Corporate governance is very necessary and [indiscernible] investors, minority investors are there. There is no words or guidance, nothing you have -- your management is giving us. We are in the black only. What is the white, we don't know what is going on. Every quarter write-downs, every quarter finance cost, every quarter [Foreign Language] but you have to follow up, and the time line is there when milestone will coming in third quarter, fourth quarter, fifth quarter, INR 80 crores every quarter interest is paid. Why? You have to get the investors know in fourth quarter, in this financial year, we will close our debtors, and what -- sir, we have to get a complete guidance on this.

Yes, I understand. I think we try to be as transparent as we can.

If in Tata Group Company disclosures are not made, it is not good, sir. I am also an accounting professional, if I'm not giving my numbers to my owners, or anybody, and I have [Foreign Language]. And the last stage EPS, what is company [Foreign Language] you are at the stage of -- starting stage of, means, your reserve surplus is INR 3,300 crores, from this, INR 500 crores is minus. And at what quarter you will -- you are multiplying or decreasing the reserve surplus?

Yes. No, I think thank you for all your questions. I think we have disclosed whatever we can disclose with the...

But not in fair, sir. Today, many companies are giving like [Foreign Language] they are giving very fair practices, and in Tata Group company, you are not giving full [Foreign Language].

I think we have said from the beginning, we have not been -- we don't give guidance except for the...

Why we don't give guidance? And why you don't give guidance...

And I'd like to -- I think it is really time that we give -- there are other people who need a -- who will also have questions. So I really request you to...

Sir, please, quarter-on-quarter guidance needed.

Could you give a chance to the others in the queue, please?

As there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference over to management for closing comments.

Yes. So once again, thanks, everyone, for participating in the call. And I look forward to interacting with you all at the end of quarter 3 as well. Thank you very much.

On behalf of Emkay Global Financial Services Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.