Teledyne Technologies Incorporated (TDY) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, everyone. Thanks for sticking with us. For my first entry into the Summit, I'm very happy to have with us Jason VanWees, Executive Vice President of Teledyne. Jason, thanks for your time, as always. Why don't we just start, I know you have a short presentation you want to give to everyone and then we'll jump right into the dialogue. Once we do that, everyone on the line can either submit questions directly through the system or you can e-mail me at [email protected], and we'll get to as many as we can in the time. So Jason, why don't you take us away?

Great. Thanks, Joe, and thank you, everyone, for listening to the presentation. And I won't go through all of the slides. The slide deck is, of course, on our website under the investment presentation link just right near the path to access this conference. And, of course, you'll note our forward-looking statements in our 10-Ks and 10-Qs. What I wanted to really do, and given the nature of the conference and the theme of this conference, is a lot of times when people think of Teledyne for the folks who don't know us, they see how Teledyne is an aerospace and defense company or Teledyne's in S&P 500 GICS Aerospace & Defense. And that certainly made sense 20 years ago. I mean, I've been at the company, it will be 22 years now this August, but the company has changed a lot, a lot over the years. And what I wanted to highlight today briefly is really who we are today, for those who don't know us. And then some of the things that you may not naturally think about Teledyne when it comes to sustainability and carbon monitoring, you may find surprising. So first, how do we describe ourselves? When we describe ourselves and what we are today, we're essentially a sensor company. And we make sensors, but we also make cameras or instruments using those sensors. And sometimes we make entire vehicles that carry those sensors and carry those cameras. But ultimately, the idea is to take a picture to make an image. Imaging and instrumentation is now 80% of the company. More importantly, though, when you can make not just an image, but you derive information from that image for your customer, that is the goal and that is the solution that the customer wants, and that's what we provide. Now what people may not know is there's certainly a lot of talk these days, and there should be, about sustainability, carbon monitoring, emissions monitoring, climatology, ocean temperatures, environmental science, but truly, a significant portion of our revenue and products are the products that are directly used by governments when monitoring carbon, when creating environmental standards, when creating environmental policy. When -- governments, where do they get carbon and emissions monitoring? Where do they get the temperature of the ocean? Either from satellites, but that only touches the surface. What about below the surface? What about the entire water column in the ocean? That data is made with Teledyne sensors. And these are not anecdotal, $100,000, $1 million, $2 million, I mean, this is hundreds of millions of dollars of Teledyne revenue, in terms of the space-based sensors, the air quality sensors and the ocean sensors. It's truly significant. And I'm going to give you some examples, and then we can probably move to the fireside chat format of this conference. So first of all, one way governments obtain data -- and I'd encourage folks, if you're not familiar with how carbon data is actually obtained globally, it's largely from satellites. All the satellites mentioned on this page, not just from the weather folks at NOAA, not just from NASA, and not just from the European Space Agency. The state of California is launching their own Carbon Mapper satellite. Chances are, if you're getting data on not just carbon dioxide, but carbon monoxide, ozone, sulfur dioxide, methane, if that data is getting obtained from space, it's largely being obtained with a Teledyne sensor, formerly known as Teledyne e2v, formerly known as Teledyne DALSA or Teledyne Scientific and Imaging. We are the world's leading supplier of sensing systems and earth science satellites. Have been for a long, long time and will continue to be. And again, you just see a small list here. There's many, many more. One, to maybe just highlight because it's been one of our larger programs the last few years, and again, this satellite alone called CHIME, Copernicus Hyperspectral Imaging Mission For The Environment, this alone is tens of millions of dollars of Teledyne revenue. The satellite may not launch until the later 2020s, but we're starting to book revenue now, where we make a very specialized tunable infrared hyperspectral sensor. And this is not our words, but this is a sustainability conference, the way governments obtain data, you'll see in the blue text there, for sustainable agriculture, biodiversity management, soil properties, sustainable mining, environmental preservation, the sensor for that data comes from Teledyne. Again, so people shouldn't think of us as aerospace and defense. These are truly significant amounts of revenue for the company, have been and it's been growing. The other thing worth mentioning is our very first acquisition when I joined, a little after I joined 20 years ago, was for a company called Advanced Pollution Instrumentation. Today, what we call environmental instruments at Teledyne is a stand-alone reported product line in our 10-Ks and our 10-Qs. It will be over $450 million this year. One of the larger companies in that is still Advanced Pollution Instrumentation, also known as Teledyne API, and we are one of the world's leading people for ambient air monitoring. So you see the clean air quality reports. What's the particulates? What's the ozone? What's the carbon monoxide? What's the CO2? What is the dust, the particulates? There's been talks about PM 2.5, [ P is ]being affected with lung cancer. There's been talks maybe why was COVID so bad in Northern Italy, maybe it's the dust particles in the Po Valley that carried COVID into respiratory channels. If you're looking at particulates and you're looking at pollution, we've shipped over 100,000 instruments to over 100 countries, and they're very, very sensitive, not just PPM, but parts per billion. People might not typically associate that with Teledyne. Also, gas and flame detection for human health, continuous emissions monitoring. I mean, this goes all the way back to coal-fired Sox trading credits for acid rain. We've been in this business for a long time. This has been a growing business, but this is a large, large part of what we do. Through the acquisition of FLIR, optical gas leak detection. Again, worker safety as well as productivity in heavy industry. And then even a brand new, newly launched product this year certified on 737 working on certification for Airbus right now is to actually monitor the air quality inside an aircraft cabin in real time, which, of course, more people are concerned about now than ever before. Again, all Teledyne products, environmental instruments, hundreds of millions of dollars of revenue. Also, so I talked about space and where they get information on winds, information on pollutants, talked about air. Now if you're talking about oceans, that's also Teledyne. Marine Instrumentation is a business that should be about $435 million a year. That includes all applications, but a very significant part of that revenue is ocean science and climatology. We made our first acquisition in this domain back in 2005. At least at the time, I didn't hear about, but now you hear a lot about El Niños, La Niñas, warming in the oceans. That data comes from Teledyne. From the surface that may come from Teledyne via satellite. In the ocean, when you're looking for what's the temperature 1,000 meters deep in the ocean in the middle of the Pacific, it's probably about a 70% chance that that data came from a Teledyne device that is right now autonomously floating in the ocean. You may have seen an article a few years ago when there was talk about a Chinese vessel abducting subsea drone in the Pacific, that was a Teledyne product. They're out there. They're out there working right now, getting ocean temperature data, ocean salinity data, that's something we do. In addition to just climatology, we were monitoring the plume after the Macondo disaster. They wanted to send out autonomous vehicles to find out where oil may be going. They used our devices. They wanted to see if there was radiation in the water after the tsunami and disaster at the Fukushima nuclear power plant that used our devices. And on that point, even some of the things that are in the ocean right now for tsunami and earthquake monitoring in the deep ocean, those are Teledyne products. And it's a significant part of our business. And I think a lot of people don't know that when they think about, again, carbon monitoring, sustainability, weather, comes from Teledyne. And this is just a laundry list of other products. But again, if you were to add it up again, it's not millions or tens of millions, it's worth hundreds of millions of revenue. So we acquired FLIR. The thermal cameras are used for firefighting, both homes but also forest fires. Again, we make consumables for other health applications, like if you sort of think Ancestry, 23andMe, we may not make the systems that do that DNA analysis, but the consumables, the micro electromechanical systems that are used in those applications come from Teledyne. We make X-ray sensors that are able to get high-resolution at a lower dose. That's good for everybody. We actually made -- we sold about 10,000 samplers for wastewater last year that were used for looking for early virus detection in sewage because COVID, you could test -- sewage tests positive before a person tests positive, before your bloodstream tests positive. And so not just virus detection, but virus localization. And even right now, it's a smaller product line in this case. But Teledyne has been in the hydrogen generator business for decades in terms of alternative fuel use. Now that's largely been for things like space probes, but that's something that we've even been in that business for a long, long time. So just wanted to emphasize that a bit more, given the topic of the conference and our somewhat measly ESG score in the cover of a Cowen report that I now have to look at, which I think should be considerably higher, but what can you do. And even that this is something else that people may not know via FLIR, but now through Teledyne, we're donating about $3 million worth of infrared imaging equipment to basically fight back, hunt poachers at night rather than watching rhinos get poached at night. It's now being done with FLIR equipment, so they can basically see and reduce rhino poaching. $3 million donation of thermal equipment. I think we're about $1.7 million into it, not quite done, but that was a relatively significant donation to World Wildlife Foundation. And there's been this project ongoing for about 5 years now where they're trying to rid the oceans of plastic. The way they find plastic and classify plastics, so that it's not -- you don't want to go take a boat out of the ocean to round up driftwood, that's going to go away eventually, but you do want to get rid of plastic. The way you can classify it and identify it versus other debris or even marine life is by some Teledyne lidar systems. And it's called The Ocean Cleanup project. We've been donating equipment and time for that over 5 years now. So again, people don't necessarily think about things like this when they think about Teledyne, and that's worth mentioning. And I'll just do a few financial slides here. And then, Joe, if you want to interrupt me and go to a fireside chat, Q&A, do so. But again, this is the profile of the company and maybe why we still have an aerospace and defense legacy. If you go back to 2004, you only see a little bit of orange there on the far left with the instrumentation. You see no imaging. If you go to the right side of the axis and you look at instrumentation and imaging, many of the things I just mentioned, that's now 80% of the company. So again, we do have a backbone. We do have a legacy in aerospace and defense, but this is not who we are today. And this just shows it another way. Again, I joined the company in 1999. We spun off in the end of 1999. Revenue was about $650 million, largely composed of aerospace and defense businesses, many of which have been divested. But today, we're primarily a proprietary product, instrumentation and imaging business. Pro forma for the FLIR acquisition that we just completed on May 14 with about $5 billion of revenue. Again, we've evolved. It's not just been the portfolio, but it's a lot of hard work. There's -- FLIR was a large acquisition that we just closed. But prior to that, not reflected in these numbers. It's been a portfolio shift that's helped the gross margin, but it's also been a lot of hard work, just getting margins up organically. And the company has changed a lot in the last 20 years. And I think FLIR is just going to keep the trajectory here for a number of years in the future, too. This has been the earnings track record. We've been a great compounder of both earnings and cash flow. When you see the margins, what happened in the previous page, this is how it translates to EPS. And other than a couple of little orange bars, this is all GAAP EPS as shown here. Now again, that's probably going to change a little bit for 2021 and beyond. Now that we're acquiring FLIR and the purchase accounting is going to be pretty severe. But this track record up until 2021, these numbers are GAAP. And what's this translated to when GAAP earnings are like that, well, that's the cash flow. Free cash flow conversion has been always good. It's been compounding over the years. With FLIR, last year's $548 million number, I've seen some new sell-side numbers. We haven't given guidance that have pro forma cash flow closer to $800 million, but I've not tried to dissuade people of those kind of values for a pro forma 2021 or 2022 type level. And when the earnings and the cash flow compound as does the stock price, and this does -- Russell 2000, but it's been a long journey. When I started, we were Russell 2000 and SmallCap 6, then we were MidCap 4 and then Russell 1 and now we're S&P 500 just within the last year or so. This has been the acquisition history. So FLIR is a large acquisition, but I can say we had a lot of experience. We've done 63 other acquisitions before the acquisition of FLIR, that just closed, a large one, of course, there in the red. But what's also unique though is that there has been no Digital Imaging business. That's the only large business group that was not a Teledyne when I joined. So not just the corporate folks who have experience in acquisitions, but the leadership of the Digital Imaging segment, the IT people, the contracts people, the finance people, everyone in Teledyne Digital Imaging has been acquired or is -- has been an acquirer. And that really does risk reduction on the integration. Again, it's not just the corporate folks, but all of the business people in Digital Imaging have been through this process and they've been through this process a number of times. And one final thing to say because, again, some people -- most people now know, but when we first announced the FLIR acquisition, people sort of didn't understand it. That while FLIR is a defense company, is Teledyne pivoting back to aerospace and defense? And the answer is really no. If you look at just the end of markets for Teledyne and the end markets for FLIR, they're very, very similar. Teledyne was 26% U.S. government. And it's not just defense. It's things like NOAA, it's things like NASA for these earth observation satellites. It was 26% of sales. For FLIR, it was 31%. Just look at the pies. There's a reason why they look the same is because the companies are very, very similar. Teledyne is just going to be a larger version of itself now that we've acquired FLIR, and you see the pro forma combined on the right. Government is still very important. And again, it's not all DoD. There's a lot of environmental science. But total revenue, $5 billion, but a very, very similar company, a very, very similar mix and same strategy, same results going forward. And I'll just go very fast through these, but what do we have as a combined company. I already gave some of those examples from an earth science point of view. But Teledyne is one of the few companies now from radiation sensors to X-ray detectors to UV visible light detectors, of course, infrared via FLIR, which stands for forward-looking infrared. All the way to microwave devices for radar imaging and even not shown on this page sonar and mapping images. If you want to image from deep space to deep sea or vice versa, Teledyne probably has a sensor for you. And that also goes to the synergy of the transaction. We've told people that, and this is true from an antitrust point of view, the customers and applications for all of these devices, they're different. But they're different from the analog world out. X-ray photons are not ultraviolet photons, are not infrared photons. The material of the sensor may be a little bit different. But the digital backbone, it's not identical, but it's very, very similar when you're taking that data and making digital data and then making images and trying to derive data from those images. So the fundamental thesis for not just Teledyne's Digital Imaging business as it stood before FLIR. But after FLIR is worst case, maybe there's some R&D savings because we're in the same business of making images and extracting information. But the best case is that there's going to be a better pace of new products and there's going to be a better product period. That's fundamentally the thesis of the deal. A few other things to point out in imaging, both FLIR and Teledyne had kind of unique business models where we would sell just sensors, some for internal consumption, but we'll also sell them to competitors. We'll sell cameras, incorporating those sensors, and then we'll sell large million-dollar imaging systems from lidar, through infrared, through visible light. And even that other people make infrared imaging systems for one of the few people that will make both lidar, 3D measurement in addition to visible light in addition to infrared on a combined basis. And it was kind of fortuitous that this happened as well, is that both Teledyne and FLIR had entered the autonomous or unmanned vehicle space incorporating and built around proprietary sensors in the more recent past, Teledyne in 2008, FLIR in 2016. But all of Teledyne's stand-alone autonomous systems basis were subsea prior to the transaction, all the FLIR's businesses from a robotic and autonomous basis prior to the transaction were land and aerial. So again, this was not in the thesis of the deal when our Chairmen first met more than 10 years ago. But what ended up being sort of gravy in the transaction beyond the imaging portfolio was a truly complementary group of unmanned vehicle businesses. Again, from 6,000 meters subsea vehicles, you see that in that SeaRaptor on the upper left, which we just sold 2 of at $5 million apiece in the last several weeks, to a whole range of ground and aerial robotics of FLIR. So I will probably end my prepared comments, probably went a little longer than was anticipated. But again, about some of the ESG and environmental science and carbon monitoring was important because probably -- we probably don't say it enough, to be perfectly honest, and it truly is a large part of our revenue.

No, I think that's great. And I think what you covered in your prepared remarks was going to be where we would have talked about anyway. So I think that was extremely helpful, and I think does put the company in different light. Two housekeeping things. Our ESG score is third party, I don't make it. Your score is actually very good. Even companies that you would think of as like extremely ESG are basically in line with where you are, and I have you guys at $850 million or so in cash flow for next year. So just the -- those housekeeping things I wanted to touch on there. So you answered some of the questions that I wanted to ask already, but are there any kind of like just big overarching sustainability goals that we should think about for you? I mean, I don't know how to think about some of these things. Probably the easiest thing in the world for a management team is to throw out like a 2050 target when no one will be at the company anymore. So how do you kind of think about what you're doing today? And how you frame where you're going in the future?

Yes. So I think a couple of things. First of all, what we haven't done enough of, which we just started to do largely right now is communicate, not just what we do for ourselves. But honestly, if you spend time and I'm sure you have, but where do governments get the data on crafting policy? Where does the actual monitoring of fulfillment versus people's goals as time evolves? I mean the sensors largely come from Teledyne. At the minimum, we need to communicate that better because it's absolutely true. I think in terms of what we do internally ourselves a little bit better, we probably have to do a little bit more. And I'm not talking about, look, maybe we will, at some point, do the proverbial kick the can down the road to 2050. And I don't like that idea. Just to make a statement to make a statement, especially when we're the party that in large cases, making a number of the sensors, that seems kind of weak. So what I think we'd like to do on a little bit more public basis, which a lot of our European companies already had to do, going even back to 2016 and 2015 when we acquired e2v, which was a U.K. plc. They had to publish -- the pounds of equivalent -- tons of equivalent carbon emissions, largely based on meter data, electricity usage, even fuel and company cars and the like. They were required to report that data. I don't think the U.S. is requiring anything yet, but I'm sure it's going to happen. And the fact that some of our European companies already do report it and track it internally, even if we don't publish it, because our 10-K requirements don't require it, like European filing is used to. The fact that we actually had in the past and continue to collect some of that data to say we're not going to do it or we shouldn't do it for the whole company I think is kind of silly. So you'll probably see some more disclosures in terms of that kind of physical data. And I think it's only proper that we do some of that on a go-forward basis in part. Because we're the one sort of policing the world, if you will, a little bit via our sensor suite. We should also kind of practice what we preach a little bit, even though we're not doing it directly, we're doing it indirectly via the sensors. But in the meantime, I mean, I think we're doing, which is frankly is just good business. I mean, in one of the FLIR companies that we just acquired, their former corporate headquarters is in Portland. I think out with the fluorescence and in with the LEDs that started last week. I mean -- because in part it, what's energy-efficient, sometimes is just good business. Saves you money. It's good for people. Why wouldn't you do it? So I think we're trying to do all the right things. But we need to be a little bit more vocal about it. And we're starting largely this last week trying to do so.

What about like the G aspect of ESG? I feel like that's often somewhat overlooked. And where discussions go, we talk a lot about the products that you do for the environmental side of it. You talked about where you spend some of your time and some of the causes that are important to Teledyne on the social aspect. What about the governance consideration?

Yes. So I think on that one, with maybe one exception, and I'll sort of say what I mean by that because I don't think it's a bad thing, is we've always been very good on the G side. I mean, in the entire time I've been here, we've only had one insider on our Board, and that's only been one person, and it's been the same person for continuity. He's been my boss, our Executive Chairman. So the Board's always been composed of outside directors. Diversity and gender have increased over the last several years, certainly compared to 20 years ago when I joined. The only thing that's probably, [ ISS ] doesn't like from a G point of view is we still have a staggered Board, and that's probably not going away. That goes to our history. Teledyne was part of a hostile takeover in the early '90s. And I don't think that served shareholders well. And I think that the only other sort of nasty thing that we once got on G from one of the members of the buy side, was they voted against, I think, someone on our Nominating and Governance Committee because our average director tenure was over 10 years. Because this thesis of maybe there should be term limits or new blood. On the other hand, when you've had a 20-year return of almost 18% a year, director tenure is not a bad thing. That's a good thing. I think track record should play into ratings of tenure or should not be viewed on a stand-alone basis, absent of performance. But again, on your traditional metrics of insiders, outsiders, gender, ethnicity, we're pretty good on the G. And even on hard G stuff, I mean, again, I don't want to sort of -- not FLIR, but I mean some of the stuff that hurt FLIR or made it an opportunity for us, we have not had FCPA items. We have not had an ITAR consent decree on export sins. We've not had nothing with U.K. Anti Bribery Act. Compliance is a big, big deal from a governance point of view. And it's a long answer, but it's worth saying. The people on our Board don't need to be on our Board, they don't need the money. The people on our Board want to be on our Board because it's fun. But more because we're not going to disappoint them. And for a lot of companies that started off in SmallCap 600 land, we've been a lot better on the G. I think we can categorically say that.

So I have a few questions on like revenue splits. I don't know if -- do you have a number, I'm being asked as like a -- how would you say -- how much of your combined revenue is climate change and sustainability related? We went through a bunch of different things, I could probably do some math in my model, but is that a number you kind of know? And then a corollary, in line with that, some -- a lot of what ESG investors that I hear, it's not so much of how much is good, it's how much is bad. Like, it's almost like are you excluded from something because you have something that is simply not acceptable. So we do have some weapons exposure. It's down. I've heard it's close to 10%, which is, in some cases, is like a number that is a borrower's investment in certain categories. So how would you touch on both of those?

Yes. So I'll do the affirmation one first. And again, some of this depends on really what is your definition of environmental and [ something ] environmentally friendly. But in rough numbers, the truly civil space sensors for earth science and the like, that's in the neighborhood of $100 million to $150 million of annual revenue, just inside Digital Imaging for those earth science. And that there's a little bit of ground astronomy in that as well, but that's the kind of order of magnitude, $100 million to $150 million. Of the environmental instruments, the air and quality and gas and flame detection monitoring as a whole, that's in the neighborhood of $250 million, at least. I could sort of round up and say are there like optical gas detection? I say that and it's like $300 million, but that's reasonably significant. Again, the air and the gas and flame detection is in a neighborhood of $300 million. And again, I'm not even talking about some of the thermography stuff that would come from FLIR and skin temperature. I'm just talking about trace chemical analyzers, gas detectors. Again, you're in the neighborhood of probably as high as $300 million if you do that. The Marine one is probably one -- I mean, and the reason why I'm giving a range is because a lot of these products are dual use, so you can't always -- but it's in the neighborhood of about $100 million to $200 million in Marine. It's probably closer to $100 million than $200 million because all of Marine's only $435 million, but it's in that neighborhood. So collectively 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, I mean, there is a $600 million, $700 million of revenue, even before I sort of dig through the FLIR portfolio in what I'd call environmental science or earth observation type revenue. In terms of, say, the flip side, maybe like the nasty side, if you will, of what is ESG-unfriendly. There's actually very little in the portfolio. We do have a fair amount of government business, of course, between Teledyne and FLIR. But the overwhelming part of that government business is observation related. So I remember having -- I remember having a discussion because they wanted to go through it in detail, like the folks at BNP Paribas about our, call it, defense exposure, what is not good, what is good. I mean, if someone took a very, very aggressive view and said, okay, well, some of these connectors we do for ocean science, we do sell to General Dynamics electric boat for submarines. Well, some submarines in the future, Columbia class might have a nuclear weapon. So does that mean all marine revenue, bad revenue. I mean, if I say, okay, what do I really do directly order a magnitude for weapons, it's extremely small. In fact, one of the few, it's going to be -- going close to 10% of sales. It's probably not even close to 5% of sales. And one of the few things that were notably ESG-unfriendly was Teledyne was historically in the business of making small turbine engines for cruise missiles. I think any way you look at it, yes, that's a weapon. We all know what that's used for. That product went end of life, and we shipped our last one in Q1 2021. The factory was government owned, company operated. We gave the keys back to the port authority of Toledo. We're out of that business. It's done. So I mean, there's probably some of our imaging businesses that are used in conjunction with some type of targeting, but that is the minority. Most of it is space-based observation, that's not earth science, might be imaging satellites, some classified.

So you're comfortable that the bed debt is under 10% because that was definitely a conversation I had that people...

I'm quite, quite comfortable, yes. Unless the definition is so broad that anything that touches an aircraft, but even then, most of our aircraft, and this is true in the microwave domain, aerospace and defense electronics, it's jamming. It's standoff jamming. So it's not weaponry. It's electronic warfare. So cell phones don't work. I mean, again, I could make a definition that it reaches 10%. Because if you're saying if it touches a submarine, it touches an aircraft or it touches a satellite, it's going to be over 10%. If you say it's being used on a weapon system directly, I am extremely comfortable that it's less than 10%.

Okay. And then well I know we're running a little over, but I have one more -- 2 people asked the same question, basically. As far as disclosure, is that -- is something -- ESG disclosures in your SEC filings, is that something that you're looking to expand upon over the next couple of years here. And someone said to -- wanted to clarify your statements on CO2 emission reduction, like on your operational footprint. Is that something you're committing to? Or is that something that you think becomes a requirement in the U.S. and you do it that way?

Well, I think it's -- I'm not ready to quantify what the numbers are globally for Teledyne, because we haven't actually done some of the math on the domestic sites, U.S. sites. Are we going to be adding more? Yes, we probably will, and we probably won't wait until it's required. I think it will be. It's -- I mean it's already required in most of the European economies. To think it's not going to be required at some point in SEC filings would kind of be surprising, I think. But I mean, we added a little -- just a little. It was only a paragraph or 2, but we added some disclosure in the 10-K about some of what I just talked about today on the actual products we do for environmental science. We added in the proxy, some of the information on ethnic and gender diversity that wasn't there 5 years ago. Would we be adding like we do in some of our European filings, maybe carbon equivalent emissions of some kind? I'd say stay tuned. But I can't imagine that we won't be doing it at some point. Will it be in our 2021 10-K? I don't know quite yet. But I think there's going to be more and not less. I mean, this is going to be a fact of life, and we're not the kind of company that waits necessarily until it's absolutely required. So I think there will be more. I don't want to overpromise though either.

I hear you. That's fair. And I think we have to leave it there as we're 5 minutes over. People on the -- I didn't get to all the questions. Guys, you got to e-mail me the questions not at the very end, now we're done, sorry. I'll do my best and reach out to the people who submitted questions that were unanswered here. But Jason, as always, thanks for the time. I think this is a different type of presentation for you guys. I think there's a lot more to the story than people realize. It's a lot broader. And I'm glad we got a chance to, even in a short amount of time here, kind of dive into that a little bit.

Great. Thanks, Joe. And no, thanks for the invite. It was an opportunity to get the word out a little bit in a different way. So I appreciate it. Thanks, everyone.

Absolutely. Thanks, guys. We'll talk soon. Bye.

Bye.