Telekom Malaysia Berhad (TM) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good evening, and welcome to all sites to today's conference. You are now participating in Telekom Malaysia Berhad conference. [Operator Instructions] I will now hand over this session to the conference leader, Dato' Noor Kamarul Anuar Nuruddin, Group Chief Executive Officer of Telekom Malaysia Berhad. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

[Foreign Language] And a very good afternoon. First of all, thank you for dialing into TM's 2020 First Quarter Result Briefing. But before we get into the quarter's performance, we want to start by recognizing that this is an unprecedented time for us, and our thoughts are with those most affected by COVID-19 and for those on the front lines of this crisis who are risking their lives to keep us safe. This pandemic has brought about numerous changes into our economy and societies globally. And as a nation innovate and try to elevate themselves, we, too, at TM have responded quickly to help the nation during these trying times. Ladies and gentlemen, I will first start with how TM has responded in time of pandemic and how it has impacted our business, and continue with a brief review from -- for the first quarter 2020 performance. Our group CFO, Razidan, will then elaborate on the financial and operational details. At the end of our presentation, we will open the floor for Q&A. COVID-19 is a black-swan event affecting everyone. We have focused our effort on 2 main stakeholders: our customer and our people. In view of the Movement Control Order, or MCO, beginning mid-March 2020, TM has provided several initiatives to our retail customers to stay connected and entertained at home. We have provided free channels on our unifi TV, free data passes for our unifi Mobile, unlimited LTE hotspot pass and discount for video-on-demand titles on our HyppFlicks. Not forgetting our business customer, they have also enjoyed unlimited LTE hotspot, discount for unifi Digital Marketing Solutions and special financing support from our banking partners. On a national scale, we have established 5G base station for 2 COVID-19 quarantine center in Serdang and Sungai Buloh, providing free internet on top of installing 400 TM service lines at a critical government agency and COVID-19 screening center. We have recently unveiled a new solution called Early Warning, Alert & Response, or EWAR, which can help in early detection of abnormal temperature among crowds. It was developed by our innovation arm, TM Research & Development or TM R&D. We have also upgraded our network to ensure it remains resilient and reliable, especially during this period. TM is ensuring the public to stay informed through our StayAlert.my portal for updates on COVID-19 from relevant government agencies. TM also waived all call charges made to important hotlines and emergency numbers, including the Crisis Preparedness Response Centre or CPRC. In addition to that, TM has contributed MYR 2 million in cash to COVID-19 fund established by the government of Malaysia to alleviate the burden of those affected by the pandemic. TM is also the joint secretariat of the Government-Linked Companies Disaster Response Network or, in short, GDRN, together with Yayasan Hasanah. TM has contributed MYR 1 million through the GDRN, which are used for purpose of medical supplies. Our TM initiatives, we have pledged around MYR 2 million worth to TM family care packages to be distributed nationwide through TM regional and state offices. Internally, we have launched a fundraising campaign and have collected more than MYR 500,000. Overall, TM has contributed over 5 -- MYR 5.5 million. And we have -- we are humbled to be part of the moment to have Malaysia recover. We have taken proactive measures to ensure immediate priority in our employees' health by introducing special working arrangement for critical and noncritical function. We'll be working on flexible hours and working from home. For those under critical functions, such as TMpoint, contact center, technical operation, will be provided special allowance during MCO period. We have also activated TM's COVID-19 response team in charge of implementing the business continuity plan measures to ensure the health and safety of employees and our partners. They are also in charge of conducting routine and thorough sanitization of TM office building and premises. We have introduced COVID-19 apps for our employees to submit their daily health declaration should they need to enter any TM premises. This is to ensure only those fit and healthy are allowed to work at the office and on the field. While this pandemic has brought about disruption, which means our business is faced with immediate challenges, we believe our agility has positioned us well to adapt and continue to serve our customer where it is safe to do so. We have reopened our 182 TMpoints outlet nationwide and have resumed further services operation at all zones, including service installation and restoration at our customer premises in all areas under conditional MCO, while ensuring that this is within the guideline of National Security Council and Ministry of Health and also the MCO. The current change in operating landscape obstacle has affected all our businesses. Nevertheless, we recorded our first quarter revenue of MYR 2.6 billion for 2020, a contraction from the same period last year, which is in line with our guidance. While the cost optimization program continues to yield results, the revenue challenges have dragged our profitability. EBIT and PATAMI both saw a decline from the corresponding period last year. CapEx spend for the first quarter of 2020 was at 10.2% of revenue, which is well within our guidance. On the retail front, our unifi broadband subscribers continued to increase. We have seen ARPU stabilizing, whereas our current convergence household penetration stands at 55%. I will now have Razidan to take you through our financial and operational details. Over to you, Razidan.

Thank you, Dato'. I will now take you through the key items for quarter 1 2020 as compared against quarter 1 2019. Our operating revenue was MYR 2.56 billion or 8% lower against the first quarter of last year. Revenue decline was seen across all products, most significantly in voice, which is declining. And this has recorded a decrease of 19.3% due to reduction in usage and customers from all business lines. This has affected our operating profit. Reported EBITDA dropped by 14.6% despite recording lower total operating costs in the quarter at MYR 2.25 million as compared to MYR 2.3 million in the same period last year. Depreciation and amortization was higher by 4.1% due to higher depreciation for PPE and right-of-use assets. Net finance cost, excluding ForEx, was 7.9% lower against first quarter 2019 at MYR 84.7 million, contributed by increased income received due to higher average cash and deposit base during Q1 2020 relative to Q1 2019. As for ForEx, we recorded a ForEx loss of MYR 80.1 million as compared to MYR 18.0 million -- MYR 18 million ForEx gain in first quarter 2019 due to the weakening of the ringgit against the U.S. dollar for Q1 2020. And taking into account all of the above, our PATAMI slipped to MYR 152.5 million from 303 -- MYR 308.3 million. And by normalizing the impact of the one-off nonoperational items, our normalized PATAMI stood at MYR 240.8 million. And now I will take you through our operating highlights. From the product perspective, Internet has contributed positively by 3.3% compared to the last quarter. From year-on-year perspective, our other products declined due to the challenging market conditions in Q1 2020. I'll now be comparing the products from a year-on-year view. Voice revenue continued a downtrend by 19.3% against Q1 2019 across all customer segments. The decline in retail voice usage was due to lower customer base and lower utilization of traffic minutes. This is also coming from an abnormal high voice revenue that was recorded in 2019 for the full year. Internet was lower by 4.2%, mainly due to lower Streamyx revenue, and this is in line with lower Streamyx subscribers. Revenue from unifi was lower due to lower new installations. Data has slightly dipped by 4.6%, which is mainly attributed to TM ONE's lower private network domestic revenue, coupled with the impact of contract renewal discount and also lower broadcast revenue resulting from the impact of the analog switchover migration. We remain positive in this space as we see strong data demand in light of the current pandemic. Other revenue was lower by 4.3%, mainly at TM ONE and [ RET ] subgroup due to the lower ICT revenue, coupled with reduction in the USP maintenance revenue. We will now move on to the performance by cluster. Overall, unifi revenue was down by 8.5% for Q1 2020 compared to the same period last year. The decline was mainly due to lower call usages and customer base for voice as well as lower customer base for Streamyx. For TM ONE, the lower revenue by 5.7% was due to the lower voice and data revenue, together with other data and lease services in Q1 2020 compared to Q1 2019. TM WHOLESALE revenue has declined by 11.3% in Q1 2020 as compared to Q1 2019, and this was driven primarily due to the lower international voice utilization. For others, there was reduction in revenue from Menara KL from lower ticket sales due to the lower number of visitors. Let's move on to Slide #12, which is our physical performance. Our total broadband customers at Q1 2020 was more than 2.18 million, which saw a strong growth of 12.6% in our unifi customer base. We are optimistic that our unifi base will continue to grow in the foreseeable future as people will require stable and fast connectivity during these uncertain times. And we have also seen some resiliency in our ARPU for the quarter. Convergence penetration for 3P was at 55% compared to 56% in Q1 2019, and we did see a minor increase in 1P and 2P convergence penetration compared to the same period last year. I will now elaborate on our cost, which is shown on Slide #13. In absolute terms, our total operating cost has reduced from MYR 2.3 billion in quarter 1 2019 to MYR 2.25 billion in the current quarter on -- or an approximately 2% reduction. Reduction can be seen for all cost items, except for depreciation and amortization. And excluding this, the positive variance is even larger. However, the cost-to-revenue ratio has slightly increased to 88.1% in 2020 from 82.7% in the corresponding quarter last year, largely due to the lagging revenue. Direct cost was lower mainly due to 3 items: one is the lower ICT project-related costs due to higher one-off customer projects in Q1 2019; secondly, the decrease in both international outpayment and domestic interconnect outpayment at TM WHOLESALE; and thirdly, the decrease in customer installation and acquisition cost, which is in line with the lower unifi installation. Manpower was recorded lower due to the decrease in staff benefits, which is in line with the lower headcount in Q1 2020. Lower materials was mainly attributed to decrease in subscribers' equipment, mainly at unifi, due to the lower CPE replacement cost arising from reduced faulty equipment as seen from lower trouble tickets received. Other OpEx was lower due to 2 reasons: one is decrease in rental due to the lower low-value lease assets; and secondly, lower maintenance charges. Higher D&A in Q1 2020 compared to Q1 2019 was mainly because of the net higher depreciation expense for property, plant and equipment, and higher depreciation for right-of-use assets in Q1 2020. Our capital expenditure for Q1 2020 was at 10.2% of revenue or MYR 262 million. This is within our 2020 full year CapEx guidance of low to mid-20% of revenue. Out of the amount spend, 19% was made for core network, 68% for access and the balance 13% was made for support systems. We are hopeful for our CapEx to accelerate since the government has started to reopen sections of the economy, thereby effectively allowing us to continue with our CapEx rollout. The actual spend on the CapEx will largely follow the same trend and be spent on building access networks. Cash and bank balances was higher at MYR 4.45 billion due to lower payment to suppliers and payments of finance costs. We also intend to look into the repayment of our borrowings in the near future. That's all for the financial and operating highlights. I'd like to hand over the floor back to Dato' Noor Kamarul for some concluding remarks. Over to you, Dato'.

Thank you, Razidan. I would like to reiterate that TM is committed in maintaining our business profitability and adapting through the onset of the new normal. As the enabler of Malaysia Digital Nation aspiration, we are committed to ensuring that our customers stay connected through the ability and quality of network throughout this unprecedented period. TM will continue its promotional package for Infrastructure-as-a-Service, Software-as-a-Service solution to ease the journey towards cloud adoption for its enterprise and public sector customer to boost their resiliencies. When the MCO first began, we saw a spike in the data, and that has stressed certain parts of the network. Therefore, we have performed network optimization and capacity expansion, which has resulted in downward trend of network congestion and translate to a better speed for our customers. We had been in constant communication with popular international streaming, gaming and productivity platforms to fine-tune their services catered to the increased demand. However, due to the length and severity of the pandemic, associated changes to the customer, consumer behavior, coupled with the rapid-evolving situation and high degree of uncertainty, the group does not believe that it can estimate the full financial impact with reasonable accuracy at this time and believe it's prudent to revisit the 2020 guidance when there is a better clarity. There will be more challenges and difficult business decisions to be made in order to weather the global health crisis. We are confident in our resilience and remain focused on what we can control to manage through this crisis. Our priorities remain with the health and the safety of our people, customers and partners, while preserving financial flexibility, maintaining discipline and servicing -- and serving our communities where it is safe to do so. As we navigate through this unprecedented crisis, we will continue to operate with a long-term mindset and in order to best position ourselves for the future. With that, I thank you for your attention. Shall we now move on to the Q&A session?

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from Mr. Ranjan Sharma from JPMorgan.

A couple of questions from my side. Firstly, on your mobile, has there been any change in aspirations? Or do you still want to build a nationwide mobile operator? So that's the first thing. The second one is on the cost side, are there any one-off gains which lowered the cost items? Or have you delayed any cost recognition in the first quarter? And lastly, are there any IRU sales that you've recorded in the first quarter numbers?

Could you repeat your second question, please?

So on the second question, the question is on the cost that you record in the first quarter. Have there been -- have any cost items, the recognition of which have been delayed into the later part of the year? Or have there been any one-off gains which might lower the reported cost item in the first quarter?

So I'll try and answer that question. I know there are no such deferred cost or revenue pushback except for [Audio Gap]

For your first question, mobile aspiration, as we still have the same -- we stick to the same aspiration. We just want to be the -- to do this mobile business as an adjacent business. Of course, we will roll out fiber to support infra, to support the infra needs by other customers and also our needs. It's okay with the first question?

Yes. Okay, sir.

For third question, we still have IRU for first quarter 2020.

So can you share how much is that?

Unfortunately, we are not able to share at this time.

The next question is from Mr. Foong Choong Chen from CIMB.

Three questions from me. Firstly, on the decline in domestic data and also the lower ICT revenue in the first quarter, I just wanted to get your views as to how you see this trending in the coming quarters. And particularly going into the second quarter, do you see this sort of being impacted by COVID-19? That's my first question. Secondly, on the decline in Streamyx ARPU Q-on-Q, just wanted to understand why that was the case. Because the price cut took place on the 1st of September, so I would have thought the ARPU impact would have been fully reflected in the fourth quarter, but yet we still saw a decline in 1Q '20. Yes, so any color there would be appreciated. And thirdly, on your manpower cost, good to see that it is stable year-on-year in the first quarter. But for the full year, what should we expect versus 2019? And how many staff will TM have by year-end? And will that just be through natural attrition or also through some VSS programs? Yes, those are my 3 questions.

Okay. On the Streamyx ARPU, it declined because of the MYR 69 new price points. So that hit the revenue side. On manpower, there's no -- there's not going to be any VSS. There's going to be natural attrition only. And we are trying to repurpose and retrain our people for sales, focus on sales. So year-on-year, we've seen 1,000 -- approximately 1,000 reduction in headcount so far.

So your question about domestic data, I think the outlook, I would say, that there will be more demand from our local carriers. Actually, this could be an increase there. And generally, there's also a mix, what I'd call, impact. It could be a lower impact, lower -- it could be a drop in the, I would call, is the enterprise customer. Because we see -- as you see, when this thing happened, if anything happened, there could be a reduction on the mix for them for this data. In general, we are seeing it's still okay. We believe that we can grow on it.

Okay. Can I just follow up on the answers earlier? So Razidan, you mentioned the MYR 69 price for Streamyx product. But I just wanted to understand, on a Q-on-Q basis, what are we seeing after dropping further? Because that MYR 69 would already have been effective this 1st of September, so it would already be in your ARPU for 4Q. So how come we're still seeing that decline into 1Q '20 Q-on-Q? And for manpower, what would be the number of retirements this year, if I can ask?

Yes, churn is on the higher ARPU customers. So the old customers, not all of them, are on the new price points.

Okay. Understood. And on the natural retirements for this year?

Yes. It's very difficult to say on natural attrition. It's not something that we forecast.

I see. But how about in terms of retirement, people stopping already at retirement age.

Sorry, we don't have that data for now.

Your next question is from Mr. [ Hu Shin ] from Citigroup.

Just 2 questions from me. Firstly, on the TM WHOLESALE, where we have seen quite a significant reduction in revenue both Y-o-Y and Q-on-Q, and I see that it has been attributed to lower international voice. My question is that, if we take out the voice component, what kind of growth we would have seen then? Basically, I want to understand that given the COVID-19 situation and the increasing takeup of data, are we seeing a stronger growth on the data side of the business? That's question number one. And the second is more of a housekeeping question. On the tax rate, it has been really low. I just want to understand why it is the case, and what we should assume for the full year for 2020?

Sorry, can you repeat the second question, please?

The second is more of a housekeeping question. The tax rate is really low at around 12%. So I want to understand why it was the case, and what we should assume for the full year?

Sorry, you were saying the tax rate is low? We couldn't hear -- we couldn't really hear you. Can you repeat that again, please?

Okay. Sorry. The tax rate is low at around -- the tax as a percentage of profit before tax is low at around 12%, 13%. I just want to understand why it is low, and what we should assume for the full year?

The tax rate is lower because of the deferred tax adjustment.

Okay. Can we know how much was that deferred tax bookings in 1Q?

Yes, it should be normalizing as we go forward.

Yes, I understand.

Your first question, revenue impact -- revenue without voice. For revenue without voice, we see a positive growth and I think it's quite a good trend upward. Okay?

Understood. Any particular color on the data revenues because of the COVID situation? Have we seen some acceleration on this side?

During COVID, there is factors then. I think, in general, during the lockdown, utilization has gone up on -- especially on data, about 50% plus. Right? And so we are solving this problem by looking with a different approach by having our CDN outside and so on.

Your next question is from Mr. Prem from Macquarie.

A few questions from me, please. Firstly, with regards to your unifi ARPUs, they've held up a little better than one would have expected given the repricing last year. Why should we not expect unifi ARPUs to continue declining? Or do you think we've sort of hit a base on this one? That's one. Number two, I noticed in your commentary for the last few quarters, we've been talking about maintenance costs coming down. Now we've lost the detail on that for the last few quarters. But could you explain to us why your maintenance costs should continue to come down? And does that then become a problem in the future when we have issues cropping up? That's two. Number three, your bad debt, could you give us some color of what your bad debt provisioning has been in the quarter relative to last year? And I'm just wondering whether we should take a prudent approach and increase this given the impact of the pandemic? And finally, from a strategic standpoint, I appreciate that we talk about being the national infrastructure provider. But could you share with us what TM is doing to defend and grow our current MYR 11 billion revenue base? If you could help us understand that, that would be great.

Well, it's possible for the ARPUs to go down further because there are still terminations that's going on. And we will need to monitor the situation accordingly, but not much more downward pressure on that. Secondly, on the maintenance cost, we continue to review the maintenance contracts, and we hope to get lower price points for moving ahead. Debts, there were some reversals during the quarter. So that -- so some improvement in our numbers.

Do -- sorry, do you think we should actually be increasing the provisions given the uncertainty ahead? Or do you think it's prudent to be writing back staff at this point?

The provision numbers are stable. The -- we've used the ECL rates that we've normally used despite the COVID because the mix positive on the economic indicators that we are basing our ECLs on. The reversal is a very specific case, so we expect the provisions to be quite stable going forward.

And could you remind me what the debt provision was like for last year?

Sorry. I think it's below 1%.

Still below 1%?

Yes.

And you're comfortable with that rate holding for this year despite...

I think we are, we are quite comfortable with that rate holding.

So on revenue growth, we are looking at a high possibility you can push further on the WHOLESALE's revenue. Because we are more transparent now, we open up our network. And on enterprise, we believe that with new services we can offer, we have IoT and others, other type of services for enterprise getting a high possibility, so we can have a good growth in the area. And we are closing quite a number of deals off on this new, what I'd call, revenue stream. And also, we are getting quite a good traction on data center as well. And hopefully, we're going to be closing more and more on this data center with our enterprise customers. And basically, as far as the consumer, we are quite stable. We don't see any major shift in that area. For consumers, so we are looking at a new content play, new strategy on content, which I think will likely to increase more revenue. We believe in the next couple of months, there'll be good traction on this content.

The next question is from Mr. Alex Goh from AmBank Malaysia.

I've got 3 questions. I just want to go through again on the domestic data. I'm just trying to understand why quarter-on-quarter and year-on-year it is down. I would have thought that during COVID-19, there would be an increased usage in terms of data because everyone is homebound and they will be using more data rather than less. That's my first question. And my second question is on your operating costs. Overall, for this year, based upon your performance improvement program that you've been doing over this year, how many percent reduction overall would you expect for this year, right? Also taking into account the COVID-19 impact. And my third question is regarding the NFCP mandate. Based upon the aim of reducing broadband charges to 1% of GNP, do you expect the government -- the current government to move towards lower -- even lower broadband rates towards the end of this year?

The domestic data actually doesn't have much impact for this COVID-19 because it's only -- we only experienced about less than 2 weeks, right?

But how about in April, do you see increased usage?

Increased usage, yes, we can see during the lockdown. As I mentioned earlier, we are about -- overall usage has gone up. And also, at WHOLESALE, so we have -- we received, I would call, a break from our customer.

Your next question is from Mr. [ Adrian ] from Bank of America.

On NFCP price and so on, I think we haven't got any clarity from our regulatory. I think next year, we're sizing up what's -- we don't really know what is going on there. And price package, yes, I don't think there will be a major change. And we anticipate that price will be stable for this year.

For OpEx cost reduction, we continue to do our PIP program, focusing on certain components of costs, like A&P, maintenance and so on. We don't really have a target cost reduction, but this is an ongoing process. As and when contracts expire, we negotiate for discounts and so on for future contracts.

The next question again is from Mr. Ranjan from JPMorgan.

One quick follow-up, just looking at your cash flows. I see that your cash flow from operations are about MYR 113 million versus, if I look at around '17, '18, your run rate was closer to MYR 600 million a quarter, it was slightly higher. It was a lot higher in 2019. So if you could just explain the dynamics behind your cash flows.

I think it's a function of your revenue level for the year and also the -- what you call your collection rate.

So have you seen a decline in your collection rates? Is that the explanation? Because the revenues are down, what, 8% year-on-year, but the cash flow from operations were down 2/3?

You were talking about first quarter, right?

Yes.

Why the collection rates are lower, is that the question?

Yes, that's right. I'm also comparing to the previous year, the first quarter of 2019.

Yes. In the month of March this year, we, what we call, deferred our credit control actions for -- at unifi level. This is just to give a breather to all our customers who are experiencing a little bit of hardship in terms of paying. And of course, I think there was the impact of our closure of some of our TMpoints during that period.

The next question again is from Mr. [ Hu Shin ] from Citigroup.

Now just one follow-up to Prem's question earlier. You mentioned that on the WHOLESALE -- one of the growth area is, on the data side, is on the WHOLESALE, providing infrastructure services to the customers. My question is, are those customers the resellers of the fixed broadband services? Or they are more of other enterprises or maybe the mobile operators using fiber for their towers? So I just want to understand where you are seeing the growth on the infrastructure side.

We didn't get clarity on your voice. Something wrong. Can you repeat and talk slowly, please? We can't figure out.

Okay. I'm so sorry about that. It's a follow-up question to your earlier response that you are seeing growth on the -- on providing infrastructure services. My question is, is the growth coming from rerenting your fixed broadband to the retailers? Or is it coming from renting assets to other enterprises or to mobile service providers for their tower fiberization needs?

Are you asking about our WHOLESALE assets? Basically, from international sites coming from the OTT and major carrier worldwide. And on domestic, it's mainly the telcos and the licensees on mobile. Does that answer your question?

Yes, that does help.

The next question is from Mr. Cheow-Ming from Kenanga Investment.

Don't mind me being a little bit cheeky with this question. TM has been holding very well with the overall market in terms of the market standpoint. So just would like to seek your thoughts on this, is there any possibility or anything that could cause TM's prospects to be included into the [ TRCI ] in the next review?

Well, that possibility is always there, and we hope to be included back into the index.

Yes. So is there maybe anything that could hinder your inclusion?

Sorry, we didn't hear that. Can you repeat that, please?

Sorry. It's just that, are there anything that could hinder this inclusion during next month's review?

Anything that would hinder that? Well, we don't know. Actually, it depends on -- well, it depends if the share price improves, the market cap improves, and we hope we will be included in the index.

The next question is from Mr. [ Haja ] from Crédit Suisse.

You -- I may have missed it, but you haven't mentioned that you lost your very executive Nonexecutive Chairman. I wonder whether you've got any comment on the impact of the company on that and whether your incoming Chairman has had an opportunity to either meet his Board or indeed meet senior management. And the read-through to that, will there be a review of your strategy as a result?

From short experience, I don't think there will be any changes. I think we'll still pursue our earlier strategy, and there will be no change for the time being.

Has your new Chairman started?

He has started. We had a Board meeting before this event. So I don't see any shift or changes yet, and I believe it will be the same.

The next question is from Mr. [ Hui Bek ] from Manulife.

I just got a question on the increase in data traffic that you have seen. You mentioned that there's a 30% increase. Are you able to monetize it considering that the mobile telcos are providing their data for free? And I think TM is expected to provide, well, free service [ ringgit here ] to those telcos as part of the CSR program and supporting the government initiative.

Basically, for data, I think we already provide services unlimited -- our service unlimited. We don't charge this, but we are selling bits. So there's no increase in terms of revenue, but we see that a good traction amongst the users that they are happy with us. And they are also mobile consumer now, maybe considering us as a better alternative for home.

Okay. So for both the wholesale side and the retail side, I mean the wholesale side, you can't charge, but the retail side, you are expecting maybe higher pickup or higher -- the pickup of higher-end averages increase? Is that what you think?

Still, we expect that there will be improvement on retail because of -- there's a need of -- I mean there's a need of usage of data during the lockdown and so on. Should there be any lockdown, they will get prepared. So we feel that it could be a good thing for us. And on wholesale, so there's an increase because of their customer has demand for this year, similar situation.

In that wholesale side, can you charge the mobile telco players?

Mobile telco, yes, we charge them. We charge...

[Operator Instructions] There is no more question from teleconference participants, sir. That's the end of our conference call for today. Thank you.

So thank you very much to all of you.