Ten Lifestyle Group Plc (TENG) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Hi. Good afternoon, everybody. Thanks for coming. We'll wait for a few other people to join us and we'll start in just a couple of minutes. We'll start at 2 minutes past or 2 minutes, 32 that is.

We just got more people coming in.

Thank you. Thanks, Keziah. Great, we just got a couple more people joining, and then we'll start at 32 minutes past. Thank you, everybody, for coming. I should say that Alan Donald, our CFO, is well generally, but today he's got what sounds like COVID. Apparently, he is tested and it's not. But he's -- I've asked him not to join the call because he's not on great form. But I can take any questions. I should be able to answer pretty much anything. And if there is anything that's particularly opaque on the balance sheet, then we'll take a note of that and we'll get back to you with any answers. I should know all the numbers.

Brilliant. So I think we've got everyone here. So thank you, and good evening. Welcome to Ten Lifestyle Group's webinar following the announcement of our preliminary results for 2022 financial year. I'm Keziah Watt, Company Secretary, and I'll be handing over to Alex, CEO, shortly to present the results. Following the presentation, we'll welcome your questions. So please just raise a hand, send it through a message or just generally make yourself known. So without any further ado, I'll hand over to Alex.

Great. Thank you very much, Keziah. So we're just going to present our results to the end of August. And in some ways -- well, I'm very pleased to be presenting these results. Let me just guess take us through. Our mission remains the same. We want to become the world's most trusted service. I think we've got better at explaining though, that doesn't make us a consumer business alone, although we are a consumer service in terms of how we used. Our money comes from banks, wealth managers, credit card companies and other premium brands paying us to look after their top most profitable customers. Because by doing that, they make more money themselves. And then the services that we offer to those customers are travel, dining, tickets, retail and so on. In that space, we're the #1 market leader. So we've won over 90% of the contracts that have come up for tender, and we've retained every contract that we've won in the last 3 years, and we've retained ever contract we've ever won where we've launched our digital platform. That's any contract worth more than a couple of hundred thousand pounds a year to us. And then within our business model of growth through winning these contracts and growing them, we also can prove that as we get bigger, we get better and we become more efficient as well, that growth engine, which we'll talk about a little bit more later on. When it comes to the highlights for the year to the end of August, it was really a year of records. So record net revenue, we were up 35% at all-time highs, well ahead of pre-COVID levels. We finished the year very strongly. Our last quarter was definitely a record quarter, building on a record quarter just before. And our adjusted EBITDA, although it was GBP 4.9 million in the year, which is a record, really, that hides the fact that our second half was the vast majority of that. The first half got taken down a little bit by Omicron, where we hired a bunch of people in October and November to manage the growth that we were seeing in the business at that time. And then we maintained that cost in the business despite the fact that Omicron rather took the wind out of our sales in December, January, and February. But that put -- that meant in the first half, we only made GBP 0.9 million adjusted EBITDA. In the second half, GBP 4 million, which has annualized GBP 8 million. So we're very happy with the second half. Cash stayed at good levels. We won 4 material contracts, retained all of our other contracts and active members were up again more of that later on. I think one message that's really important is that from here on in, for the next 2 years, it's about doing more of the same rather than having to do new things that might eat up cash or investment. So we're growing a business that's already got a mature operation in countries where all the countries that we need to be in, we're in. We've got all of the categories we need to be in, we're in. So don't expect to see Ten doing anything outside of travel, dining, live entertainment and premium retail. Those are the 4 areas that we want to own and grow and get better in. But it's about iterating that just like it's about growing in Latin America, where we already are, North America, where we're in both the U.S. and Canada. It's about growing in markets where we're in Asia and the markets that we're in the Middle East and Europe as well. And the numbers that Peel Hunt got out there assume that we achieve those quite easily by just growing in financial services. Now we're selling into other markets that we know quite well, property. We've got some things going on in the employee market. We work with airlines and so on. But all of those can be put to one side to achieve what we want to receive in the next couple of years. It could just be in markets geographically where we already are, and categories that we're already good at that we can get better at, and in financial services. And we're approaching cash generation. Right now, we were actually profitable on a PBT basis in the last quarter of the year. And as we approach cash generation -- as we achieve cash generation, some of that we'll use to rebuild the balance sheet and add to the balance sheet and some of it we'll reinvest into future growth. So this is normally Alan's bit, our CFO. But for those of you that joined the call late, he is not well. He's got COVID-type symptoms, so I'm covering his pieces off here. So net revenue up, adjusted EBITDA up, particularly in the second half. Growth in all 3 regions and supply revenue up as well. We're going to go into all of this in a little bit more detail. Loss before tax improved and of course, we want that to be positive quickly as it was in the last quarter of the year. And cash, we've maintained it at safe levels as well, prudent levels. On the income side, we've got operating expenses did rise in line with pretty much in line with revenue. So although they went up slightly slower, we didn't get the same improvement in profitability as we expected at the start of the year because Omicron hit us, and we didn't take cost out of the business. We kept it in the business because we saw that Omicron was only going to be a short-term phenomenon, which actually turned out to be. So in the second half, we achieved the numbers that we expected at the start of the year, although in the first half of the year, we had a worst half than we had expected at the start from a profit point of view. Exceptional items is really Russia. We closed down our Russian business shortly after they invaded Ukraine, and that cost us GBP 0.8 million to close that down. We actually sold it and we had to exit that in a way that meant that we didn't break Russian law or anything like that. Share-based payments were also down in the year because we didn't have salary sacrifice. Anything like the same level as we had the previous year that was very much kind of Omicron affected. This is an important chart. You see there's no red on here because we didn't lose any contracts. So supply revenue was up by GBP 2.9 million, part of the bridge, base corporate revenue. So that is the money that we make from our existing corporate clients was up GBP 6.9 million, really pretty happy with that. And there's a new metric that we're reporting, which a lot of SaaS businesses, services and software businesses report as a matter of course. So our fund managers are quite used to this, the revenue retention rate. And whereas our contract retention rate is 100%, our revenue retention rate is 120%, which effectively means that of the contracts we had a year ago, we're getting 120% more revenue from those contracts than we had the previous year. And then we've got some new contract with GBP 2.3 million worth. Now they weren't all on Day 1 of the year. And so those same contracts in the current financial year we think will be worth double that. And that's partly because some of them launched halfway through the year and partly because some of them are growing as we go through the year. So they'll be bigger in this year than they were last year, even per month of being live. Supply revenue is really interesting. Probably the most useful thing to look at is the bar chart on the right-hand side. So we grew -- we were doing very well pre-COVID, GBP 2.5 million would have been fairly typical for the kind of half year before COVID hit. And then also the half before that would have been fairly similar as well. COVID absolutely destroyed that. People weren't traveling and a lot of our supply revenue is from travel. We kept some things going because we did staycations and various other things that created supply revenue. But as you can see, we were out of that in H1 2022 had a very strong September, October, November. Omicron hit, took the window of the sales for 3 months, but then we're back in the second half being GBP 3.3 million both very well for this year. So record levels, and that's continued into this year. So in this year, we had record September and a record October and it looks like it will be a record in November as well for supply revenue. So that's good. It's on secondary revenue stream for us. It's only 12% of our revenue, but it's free income, if you like. It doesn't add to our cost base, seeing this go up and up. By region, I'm particularly delighted with the States -- sorry, Americas. So that region, the Americas grew by 67% and actually grew, it doubled year-on-year in the second half of the year. And the reason that's important is the Americas has been our profit drain, if you like. It used to be for several years that EMEA would make the money, APAC would wash its face and Americas would lose the money as we were investing in it. So we've been for many years been saying the Americas will get there. They'll get there as we mature in the market. And as we get good, we get more efficient, we get more experienced people because there's less newness in the business. Our supplier relationships get stronger and we achieve scale. So has that happened? Well, you'll see in 2 slides. And in EMEA, also our most mature market, but revenue is still growing in EMEA and we won contracts as well in APAC, a large contract in Japan. Never mind the fact that the Japanese done very little international traveling all the way through to today. But domestically, they're still eating out and traveling and seeing shows. So we've grown that business. Although China, Hong Kong, as you can see in the papers today, still very subdued. And Australia recovering, but still behind where it might have been, people still not traveling quite as much as they might have done. Profitability has also improved. EMEA lost a little bit of profit as we were growing into the immature markets of the Middle East, Scandinavia and so on. But our mature markets, U.K., Belgium, Switzerland, are doing very well. Americas, you can see the profitability is hugely improved or more on that on the next slide. And Asia, a bit disappointed with the profitability there. It was kind of what we expected given that COVID has dragged and dragged in APAC, but we would expect that to improve this year. But the Americas is the big turning point here. So you can see net revenues are back up above pre-COVID, but the profitability has hugely improved. And actually, in 2022, we only lost on an EBITDA basis GBP 700,000. Actually, in the second half of the year, that was a positive number. I mean not a big positive number, but it was a positive number. So adjusted EBITDA was positive in the second half. And that is really super because that's the growth engine working. We said it was worth going into the Americas because we would achieve maturity and achieve scale and then we would start growing profits. So that's what's happened. Elsewhere, centrally, we have continued to invest in our tech. Now this number here, the GBP 13.6 million includes all of the investment into our digital platform, content, everything we write and create and IT infrastructure and communications. So it's a bundled number. Within that, we capitalized around GBP 6 million worth of investment. And most of that, 85% of that is coding and software development that we do on our platforms. And that creates competitive advantage. It drives efficiency. It's one of the reasons why we've retained contracts and win new contracts. It helps with service levels, and it drives member use that drives revenues. However, as we grow over the next few years, if we grow, let's say, our net revenue is at 25%, we would expect to only grow our technology investment at 5%, 10%. So there's -- we won't grow at anything like the same level as our net revenue growth. Cash flow. So we've kept cash at decent levels, but we did take some debt into the business, mostly from shareholders that linked to the business on competitive rates, and that means that we've got long-term debt in the business of GBP 3.4 million. The main reason for that is just to really reassure everybody that we've got as much cash in the business as we need and want. And of course, as we achieve cash generation, we would look to pay those loans off and gradually pay those down over the next couple of years. I'm going to play you the first couple of minutes only of the growth engine video. Now this is an updated growth engine video. And I think in the first 2 minutes, it just describes our business model in an updated way. And then the rest of the video, I'll let you watch at your leisure at other time. [Presentation]

And I'm going to pause that there. So that then goes on to give examples about how the growth engine is actually working in practice, and it's on our website under investment case under the Investors section, if you'd like to continue where I paused. A reminder, though, that we make our money in 2 ways. We make the vast majority of our money from corporate revenue being paid by banks, credit card companies, wealth managers to look after their top customers. And then 12% is that supplier revenue I talked about earlier on. These are long-term contracts, and we effectively get paid in line with the type and volume of the request that we manage, although they manage themselves in our digital platform. It tend to be 3 or 5-year contracts. The 3-year ones tend to get tendered maybe every 6 years, and we expect to win those tenders almost always, and we've won all of them that have come up in the last 3 years. Within that, though -- within those contracts, we've got 2 types of members. We've got eligible members, people that can use the service and active members, people that actually do use the service. And this is a really important chart here to explain that. So on the bottom right-hand side, we have in the dark, darkest color, we've got 59,000 active members who are very high value to the sponsoring brands. So they're typically the customers of private banks and wealth managers that have got high levels of AUM, assets under management, with those private banks and wealth managers. That's about 11% of the 539,000 eligible members on the left-hand side in 2022 that could use the service. So it's about 11%. Now the reason that's important is that on our less mature program, say, SwissCard in Switzerland or Coutts in the U.K., we'd expect that number to be not 11%, but to be something between 35% and 60%. So on that basis, our less mature programs where maybe we've launched and we've got to 5% or that we've only just launched, we would expect over time to get that up to double that part of the business, triple that part of the business and maybe even more. And that's also true for the high-value customers. So those might be the high net worth customers of banks but who might not have assets under management with those banks or premium credit cards that are paid for credit cards, for instance. And there, 44,000 in the orange active members of a total of 1.4 million, eligible members about 3%. Again, on our more mature programs, we expect that to be closer to 15%. So there's plenty of room for growth and actually more room for growth now because banks in particular and private banks are making a lot of money from interest rates being raised and being higher. So that helps us get more budget from those customers. The last segment there is the medium value. Those tend to be the active members that we get through Visa, Mastercard, Diners Card on American Express, where it's through a payment company. And then we've got high levels of active members, although they're not worth as much per member because we tend to get paid less per usage. And they tend to use it slightly fewer times or significantly fewer times per year than a very high-value customer or a high-value customer because there's less productivity and because they have less luxurious lives. Operational update, I'm going to rattle through this because some of it we might come back to in the questions. But the number of contracts is up, which we've talked about. One of them was Credit Saison, many of you won't know Credit Saison. It's basically the Japanese equivalent of Barclay Card. And we look after the concierge services on their top credit cards. We've won a contract with Schroders in the U.K., DNB Bank the top bank in Norway, Morgan Stanley, a great name in the Americas as well. And all of that, along with growth of our existing clients has led to active members being an all-time high. Member satisfaction levels are very strong, and we've continued to invest in our tech as well. Corporate client growth is around the world. We like the fact that it's spread around the world, and we have got a very strong pipeline in all 3 of our regions as well, which we're happy about. And the client list is super strong. So it's very familiar for those of you that have seen us present this before. Many of the names are the same, but then there are always some new ones every year as well that add to it and add to the blue chips of it. Again, almost everybody on this screen, maybe apart from Neiman Marcus, maybe some of the luxury brands that aren't in financial services. But the ones in financial services from our demographic, almost all of them, as far as I know, all of them will make more money this year from those customer base that we look after than they made pre-COVID, materially more, significantly more because of interest rates going up. So that's very, very good news for us. And we don't need interest rates to be at 5%, 6%. We grew our business when interest rates were effectively in most of our markets close to 0. But as long as they're at 2%, the banks took a lot more money to spend than they used to have 2 years ago. And the categories that we're working in, we're getting better at all the time. So dining, we've got more held tables and guaranteed access, more restaurants around the world that we've ever had. We've got more hotels that we've got early check-in, late checkout, room upgrades at -- than we've ever had before, complimentary breakfast. And we're doing a lot more with more partners in entertainment, so that we can get tickets for more shows at more venues at face value for our members around the world. It's not hugely aspirational, but you'd be surprised how popular Michael Buble is. And just in the last few days, we've done a deal with his producers so that we've got guaranteed inventory at every single one of his concerts around the world. Sometimes we do deals with venues, sometimes with ticket companies like Ticketmaster, Eventim, seetickets and sometimes we do it directly with the agencies that actually run the tolls, the Buble one is a good example of that last thing. And then in retail and events, this is probably less mature for us the dining entertainment and travel. We're getting better and better deals and relationships with luxury brands and premium brands, brands that want to sell to our high net worth customer group. So that we've got better shopper evenings, better events online and in person and better deals so that people can buy more things through us. And we're getting better at retail -- kind of retailing that and curating that so our members know what to expect from us. And across those 4 areas, we've got editorial that talks about our expertise and what our members find it interesting in dining in travel and so on. And that inspires them, interests them and also grows our value to the brands that we work with as well as growing value to our members. The platform we've improved. It's now across 80% of our net revenue. It's in 18 languages, 39 currencies. It's growing all the time in terms of the number of brands that we're live with, 35 now compared with 29. And it's just getting better all the time. So it's easier for us to customize it to a higher degree for different brands, which is important for differentiation to give them what they want. The content, including video that's on the platform is hugely improved, far easier to search and it's getting a really much higher kind of click rate, if you like, from people going on reading it as you would read a magazine on your iPad and so on. The content outside the platform is also stronger than it's ever been. This is something we put together for a U.K. wealth manager that was actually distributed to their customers physically and digitally. And it shows our expertise, inspires members, but it's also something that people are delighted to have under their own brand or co-branded with us. We've improved payments. We've improved member preferences. So you can tell us what your interests are, what your preferences are, and then we can tell you about things that are bespoke and suited to you. And we've broadened our service out, so there are many programs. People can talk to us using WhatsApp, a very intimate relationship or chat of our digital platform as well. We've got very expert at delivering service through those ways as well as, the old-fashioned ways of e-mail and phone and the relatively recent, and we are communicating to us via the platform. Just a couple more slides here. So we've extended the value of each contact point with our members as well. So when we activate, we now use better videos. We use more compelling descriptions of what we can do for people. We personalize it more to somebody based on their location or their age so that we're getting 50% more people engaging with us through the onboarding journey. But then after people are engaged with the service, we're letting them know if they stop using the service, we inspire them with reasons why they might want to restart using the service. We let them know about things that are in line with their preferences and their profile and so on. And we've got a whole host of different ways to improve CX customer experience and keep people engaged. That's one way that we're going to continue to grow the 275,000 high net worth and mass affluent people using our service. We expect to see that number keep going up, partly because our service gets better, partly because we've got more contracts, and partly because one of the contracts we've got, we're doing this kind of thing to engage people more effectively. And we've become -- or we are becoming a B Corp. For those of you that don't know what a B Corp is, it's definitely worth googling. Because once you spot it, you see it everywhere. So essentially, you can become B Corp certified if you can convince the B Corp people that you are on the side of the good guys vis-a-vis being a good global corporate citizen. So it's good for ESG, environmental, social, and governance reasons. And it's great because it's good for that, and it's very much a kind of consumer understood -- well, certainly, it's very well understood amongst GenZ and Millennials. They're more likely to want to work for a company that's a B Corp. It allows us to have really good conversations with our corporate partners who because we're a B Corp, they are willing to have more conversations to us about more things to do with their ESG. So for instance, we might do programs with Mastercard, for instance, that are about promoting hotels that are particularly environmentally friendly, for instance. We might do promotions with goods where we promote staycations for people that want to stay in the country rather than [ try to ] go abroad. All of these things, to have a good conversation with our corporate partners that typically results in more activity with members, more revenue for us and is good for the planet too. So where from here, what's the outlook for the business? So we've already talked about how we expect to grow our business through growing existing clients, growing the number of active members, winning new contracts, and winning new contracts with new clients as well. And this very boring slide is actually, in some ways, the most exciting. It's a cut and paste from our prelims for compliance reasons from the results that are on the platform and at the London Stock Exchange. And really what it says is that we're comfortable with the forecast that are out there in the market, Peel Hunt, expect us to grow our revenues this year from GBP 47 million to GBP 58 million. They expect to grow EBITDA from GBP 4.9 million to GBP 12.9 million. And remember, that's going from GBP 8 million annualized in the second half to GBP 12.9 million. So GBP 4.9 million to GBP 12.9 million looks like a big leap, but GBP 8 million in run rate in the last 6 months of the year that was actually increasing across the 6 months to GBP 12.9 million is a whole lot more credible. And so we're also expecting to grow the active members that help achieve those revenues as well. As we do it, we're going to invest more into our tech, invest at similar levels into our tech, but we're not going to expect that investment to rise at the same level, nothing like the same level as we expect our net revenues to rise. We're in a good position vis-a-vis cash, and we've continued to have these amazing client retention levels and a very strong pipeline. So 4 material contracts in the last year. There's no reason why that kind of run rate shouldn't continue. So we're optimistic about a great year of progress. And for those of you that were paying attention to the video earlier on, you all know that that extra scale that we'll achieve this year flows through into a stronger business in pretty much every way. And you had to listen to me all the way through that, normally, you have the [ dial set ] Scottish tones of our CFO. I'm going to stop there and very happy to take any questions at all.

Can I ask some questions? It's [ Philip ].

Please. Go ahead, Philip.

It was very interesting and very optimistic and enthusing. What are your thoughts on the share price? And what plans to attempt to do something about it?

Yes. I think the worst metric in the business is the share price, it's fair to say. So here's what we're doing about it. Firstly, we're -- obviously, the markets are in a terrible place. But however bad the markets are, our share price is still worse than the markets. And I think the reason for that -- one of the reasons for that is that we had to -- in March, we had to downgrade our profits. We actually still met our revenue number. We had to downgrade our profit expectation because of the impact of Omicron. That really kind of gave us a cake. But that was compounded by the fact that we had a Canadian seller in the market, a company called Burgundy, who started selling. And actually, they were selling as far as we can conclude because I understand they sold the vast majority of the European holdings the day that -- or started selling a couple of days after Russia invaded Ukraine. They had almost 4% of shares in the business. They're no longer a material shareholder. It could well be that they're no longer a shareholder at all. And so that will reduce some of the pressure because I believe that their sales are what was taking us at GBP 0.46, that kind of level. So that's good news. We've had some new buyers recently, which we're very happy about, and many of those buyers could buy more. So we can't predict what's going to happen to the share price, but we would expect to see more liquidity. I would expect it to go up. I think what the market wants to see more than anything else. Some people are already seeing it because they're taking a forward view, but that's cash generation and bottom line profitability. We'll hit PBT and -- well, we're kind of there on PBT. But now we need to achieve cash generation. Some people will see that in their expectations and start buying. Other people, I think, will only want to buy after they've seen that. And that's the thing that's in our gift. So whilst we're not cutting anything in the business that we believe would be a mistake for the 3-year outlook. There are some investments we're not making today that we could make, but we're not making them because we know that it's important for us to show cash generation. And so if that means -- and we're very focused on that without doing anything to harm the business. So I think a mixture of shareholder activity plus us demonstrating that we're meeting cash generation, obviously, on top of growth, which we're very comfortable with, we'll make a continued impact on the share price. That's my expectation. Does that help?

Have you any plans to do a major road show? What do think about that?

Yes, we'll gradually ramp up the activity that we do across next year. I think the time to do a roadshow and go out there and excite retail investors is as we get -- start ramping up our share price with the fund managers and the hedge funds and the family offices that we're talking to now. And then what we want to do is off the back of that growth, as we can then point 2 numbers, probably in H1 or with our H1 results with hopefully a couple more wins that we may well announce along with the development of cash generation and another 6 months of decent financial results. We can then go out there and start getting retail shareholders more interested in the stock. As we then achieve a valuation closer to GBP 100 million, we can then get -- expect to get some coverage in the consumer financial price as well. People like Investors Chronicle don't typically write about any business that's got a market cap of under GBP 100 million. So you start kind of getting some positive stories there. And then we've got people that we've seen who have told us that they would expect to invest as we reach profitability. They don't need to see high profits. They just want to see profitability and for profitability read, again, cash generation, certainly positive PBT. So it will be a gradual thing. We won't be doing a whole lot apart from -- with the people we're talking to now pre-February. But we're talking to enough people now that we would hope to see some movement in the share price. And then more with our -- shortly after the end of February, probably halfway through March, we'll do a trading update and then a proper road show in April. I've got 2 questions in the chart. So one from Thomas. Thank you, Thomas. What are the leadership lessons learned for the past 2 years? What have we learned about building trust with clients, employees and investors? I think we've done a great job with clients. I think we've done a good job with employees. I think we've done a pretty poor job with investors. Clients, they really like us. I mean not every client loves us as much as every other client. But overall, if I have an e-mail sitting in my inbox from a client, these days, I'm expecting that to be good news because it typically is. People tend to be giving us more budget. They tend to want us to be doing more, sometimes giving us additional contracts in new markets or with the new demographic. We did really well with our clients during COVID, but all of them have got post-COVID plans helped by the rise in interest rates. So clients, I think we're in a good place with. Employees, so the big growth with employees is one that any of us can understand, but you can understand that even more if you put yourself in a position of many of our lifestyle managers to earn the equivalent of U.K. GBP 35,000, GBP 40,000. They've got over 10% inflation in their lives, and we're giving them pay rises of 5%. So that's not great. Now the fact is they're not having to come into the office every day. So for instance, in London, they might be saving thousands of pounds a year on travel costs. But the single best thing we could do to really have them super happy is give them inflationary pay rises. We haven't done that. We've given them pay rises but below inflation. But as we become more efficient and for our very best employees, we would hope to improve those things into the future. And one thing that will help there is that we've been very successful in pricing up our contracts. And as we can price our contracts up in line with inflation, then we should be able to be more generous with our employees. But that's the single biggest issue with our employees. I'd say it's not killing us. We've got 80% retention, and that's an unwatched retention number. So actually, that's not bad for a business like ours. So I think it's quite positive in the current environment. But that's why don't give us sees a good with employees. With investors, if you go to the London Stock Exchange side today, or any of our RNS, our stock market announcements, you'll see that we've changed how we explain the business. We used to start off by calling ourselves a lifestyle management business that organizes dining, travel, tickets. And somewhere in the third sentence, we explained that we worked with banks. We have now flipped that and we've done a much better job of explaining to investors that actually we make our money from banks, wealth managers, credit card businesses and other premium brands. And that is helping us a lot explain our business to investors, particularly in the current environment where people are concerned about the consumer markets, but actually quite excited about what we can do as a customer loyalty tool for banks. I think otherwise, with clients, employees and investors with all of them, it's about -- whilst Philips right, I'm feeling enthusiastic about the business. It's also about making sure that we under promise and over deliver. A good example of that, our Peel Hunt's latest numbers have us at GBP 58 million this year, net revenues growing to GBP 64 million, growing to GBP 67 million. Well, clearly, there's a discrepancy between that and the video you saw in the growth engine -- the growth engine video. You would expect us to be aiming far higher than that. We are aiming for higher than that. And if we hit what we're aiming for, then we will have very much under promised and over delivered. I have to be very careful with how I express that. Thomas, does that help answer some of your questions here? And if you want to ask a follow-up question, please do in the window. Bruce's question, we win 90% of contracts come up for tender. We win based on our tech proposition. Price per request has gone up. We charge more per request a little more. But here's one of the amazing things about our tech platform. If we're charging $50 a request, just to pick a number, if we're charging $50 a request for a high-touch request and our competition are charging $45, they look like they're better than us on price. However, if we're charging $50 for a high-touch request, we might be charging $25 for a semi-automated request, which you can only do via our total platform, and we might be charging $10 for a digital request, which is self-serve. So somebody is buying those Michael Buble tickets on our platform, and it's what 100% sell serve. We might only be getting paid $10 for every ticket batch they buy. However, that will be high margin for us because it doesn't involve any human being. And what's really exciting about that is that if we've got a good percentage of our requests, which are digital and a good percentage of our request that are semi digital, our average price per request isn't $50. It might be $30, which makes us quite a lot more cost efficient than our competition that don't have a digital platform to speak of. So that's good. What estimated market share of the corporate concierge market today? I think there's probably the same amount of business to win today out there, split between Aspire people that American Express outsourced to John Paul in France and so on. There are contracts that we would like to have contracts in Europe. Contracts, even there are still a couple of contracts that couldn't essentially have. They've got a contract in Canada, we would like. They've got contracts in Italy that we would like. And that we would expect to go after. Aspire is still very strong in Asia. They've got some great contracts in the states. They still work with -- they provide the concierge service for Citibank, for instance, and for various other corporate clients that are very much the kind of corporate client we expect to win. So watch the space on that. And you should expect to see -- I expect to see, and I hope we do continue to announce new contract wins. I'd also point out that when we win contracts from competitors, we then expect to grow them quite significantly because we're better. Philip, do we have a staff share scheme? Yes, we do. We've got -- we follow a program called CSOP in the U.K., which is tax efficient. For as one, they don't equalize capital gains and income tax. Staff pay capital gains on CSOP share options on income tax. And people get to that, and then we do, we roll that out globally as well for our star performers and more senior management. The very top team have also got an incentive scheme on top of that. And during COVID, people took a salary sacrifice that allowed them to have the right to buy share options, but at a strike price that will bring cash into the business, by the way. So because the strike price that they can buy shares at was quite high. It was at around 20% more higher than the strike price when they sacrificed their salary. So that actually will, when they're exercised, bring in a few million pounds of cash into the business that will help us build a decent balance sheet. So that's an answer there.

So just generally, and I don't expect it in specific, what percent of staff would you say are shareholders, roughly, any idea?

Yes. Because of the salary sacrifice, that's been expanded quite a lot. So of our 1,200 staff, there's probably 200. But I know Philip, your background is the dripping with cash sector of financial services.

Well, it used to be. It used to be [indiscernible].

Whereas, clearly, many of our lifestyle managers, particularly those in countries that don't really have as much awareness of the public markets. So places like Japan, Latin America, they don't really get share options, the way Americans and Londoners do. So we've got all equity, in fact. So we've got slightly less uptake in some markets. Our highest uptake is in actually Hong Kong, London and the States, Canada.

Yes. No. In my experience, having a wide share ownership amongst staff was actually a really good thing at every single level.

Yes. I do love it. I was really impressed by how many people took shares in the business and salary-sacrifice, when we felt like we might have needed them to at the beginning of COVID, when we -- it wasn't guaranteed that we'd come out of it as well as we did. And I agree, it's good to have that mix. Thomas has got a question in the chat. The Americas region showed solid growth. Could you remind us what the normalized at scale margins for the Americas region? What's the absolute cash flow potential versus EMEA? So this is -- this does get really interesting. So again, Peel Hunt's EBITDA margins looking out are 20% across the group. Now we historically have expected to make 30% EBITDA margin in EMEA. Today, we're making a little bit less than that, closer to 20% in EMEA. And one of the reasons for that is that our EMEA business is growing quite rapidly in the Middle East, which is lower margin. We lost Russia, it was part of EMEA, and that gave us a good kick. And we're growing in Scandinavia, which is a great market, but which is subscale. We're much closer to 30% still and expect to maintain that in the U.K., Switzerland, and Belgium. The Americas, there's no reason why the whole of the Americas couldn't get to EMEA type margins. We are at scale in Brazil, Mexico, Colombia, Canada, parts of the U.S. And we're continuing to win. We've got a very strong pipeline of business in all of those markets that should really help us get to scale. And our pricing is strong in the Americas. We wouldn't -- and our cost base is very knowable. So I would expect the Americas over time to start generating the same level as margins as we get in EMEA. So 20% rising to 30% when all markets are mature. Again, that's over time. And I think if our brokers are sitting here and I gave a timescale for that, they would probably put a gun to my head and tell me to stop talking as a listed business. But certainly, over time, you should expect the Americas to start to match the margins for EMEA. Thank you. Thanks, Thomas. Any other questions at all from anybody about anything at all? 10/2030. Yes. So 10/2030 is the way that we communicate our staff inside the business. So 10/2030 is our plan for growing the business over the next 8 years. And it allows us to talk about our big ambitions, which again, aren't really reflected by growing from '24 to '25, year '24 to year '25 from GBP 64 million to GBP 67 million net revenue. 10/2030 is about us explaining the logic of the growth engine to our staff inside the business. And pushing ourselves all the time to say, how do we leverage this? How do we make scale result in higher service levels and higher profit margins? The Michael Buble ticket is a good example. Before we did deals with people like Michael Buble, members would call us up and say, "I want Michael Buble tickets." We would have to scurry around with our contacts in the industry and find them. Today, we promote to our members that we've got Michael Buble tickets, particularly members who are either women over 60 or members that have said they're interested in Michael Buble tickets. And we go out to our corporate partners sometimes and do a specific marketing with them. And we've got them there in our hands, we can put them on our digital platform in our digital hands. We can put them on our digital platform, and they could just flow off the digital platform or through our systems. We don't need to call anybody for those tickets because we've got them. Similarly for held tables, obviously, our travel systems do that very well as well. So I was thinking all the time about what can we do to improve the business and let scale and the investment in tech and proposition result in higher-margin business and high-quality service. So what's materially different about the business in 10/2030 is it's actually a lot of -- so 10/2025 is a lot about growing in the existing markets and the existing categories. By 10/2030, I'd be disappointed if we're not in quite a few other adjacent markets. We should be fairly well developed into property by then, probably launching into a whole bunch of other areas as well that we can talk about more as we've got proof points that were in those markets. But for the next 5 years or the next 3 years of the 10/2030 journey, it will be those 4 categories, dining tickets, travel, retail, in the markets largely that we're in. And financial services, I think, will be the majority of our business there. But it's about getting 5% better, 10% better over here, 5% better over there, 3% better over here and all of that adds up to really decent growth rates and growth in profitability as well. We do still have a director of retail customer offer. And that's actually been really interesting. So we are -- we've experimented with that, and I think we're much closer to knowing how we want to promote that and in which markets. I would be surprised if North America wasn't our most valuable market for direct to retail, direct-to-consumer in a couple of years' time. But again, I wouldn't hold your breath on that. We will only invest in growing our direct to retail customer offer with any decent marketing dollars if we've got a very high rate of return. As it is, we do a little bit of 3 PR, a little bit of member get member, and we're growing that business quite nicely. In the U.K., it's quite complex to grow because many of the likely customers are already people that bank with Coutts or Barclays or HSBC or NatWest. I've got wealth with St. James' Place or Schroders, et cetera. So it's more about growing here through the corporate markets, but in some places, and particularly in the States, people are very, very willing to pay for services, particularly aspirational services. And so that might be something that grows quickly there, but we're not going to be putting marketing dollar behind that for some time. It's a temptation, but it's a temptation that we're resisting because we want to get to cash generation. And there's probably 5 or 10 things I would invest in, I'd invest GBP 0.5 million before that. Are we seeing a consumer slowdown? Good question. No, we're not. I don't think that's because there isn't a consumer slowdown. I think that's because we're getting better all the time. And not only is our service better, but the way that we communicate is better. So I would expect to see us grow even during a consumer slowdown. One of our shareholders that we saw recently, that's been a material shareholder for 10 years, likened us to mobile phones in the early '90s. So there was a recession in 1990, '91, '92, but mobile phones sold higher in every one of those years. Why? People were poorer, but mobile phones were getting more attractive, better battery lengths, better signal, more socially acceptable. We are much more like a mobile phone in 1990 than we are a business that should suffer because of a consumer slowdown. I remember our banks want to promote us more because they're making more money than they've ever made despite a consumer slowdown from our demographic. So not every bank is reporting higher profits overall because they're making provisions against corporate loans. But against our demographic, the mass affluent and high net worth private customers, they are making more money than they've made since before layman's. So and as I say, travel spent is at record levels in September, October, November, still. Thank you. Any final questions or thoughts? Love to hear anything else. But otherwise, I will say thank you, everybody, for giving me a full hour. And I really appreciate your time. And for those of you that already holders, which I think is many of you, thank you for your support, and we're all looking forward to the share price responding as it should. But thank you, everybody, for coming on tonight.

Alex. Thank you. Thanks for your hard work. I appreciate it.

Well, Thank you, Philip. Thanks very much. Thanks for those words. Appreciate it.

All right. Thanks guys.

Take care. Thank you, everybody, for your questions.