The Interpublic Group of Companies, Inc. (IPG) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Hello, everyone, and thank you for joining us today at our 30th Annual Communacopia Conference. My name is Lisa Yang, and I cover the European media Internet space here at Goldman. And it is a pleasure to have with me today Philippe Krakowsky, Chief Executive Officer of Interpublic. Philippe, thank you very much for being with us today. [Operator Instructions]

And with that, maybe, Philippe, just to start with, you've been CEO of Interpublic for about 9 months now. You previously spent 20 years at the company and most recently as CEO. So maybe just like to know if you can give us a perspective of your current role, like what are the biggest changes from your prior roles and what are your key strategic priorities as the new CEO for the remainder of the year and the next few years.

Okay. Thank you, Lisa. Thanks for having us. And you were mentioning in the green room that you're covering Europe and now, so a very long day. So thanks for extending it to include us. Look, I think that the very first thing I'd call out is very self-evident. But I think a top priority that remains for all of us just in the midst of pandemic is just sort of looking after our people, right? So the health and welfare of our people. And so in a business like ours, which is a professional service business, in order to effectively support clients, I think it's absolutely key to look after the talent. And so I think a big focus for us has been their physical and mental well-being. And then I think getting smarter and more productive on what we're doing in the remote setting, understanding what we're going to take from that into the future. And then as you and I were just discussing as well, the return to office, whether London for you, New York for us, we're definitely getting people back into office and sorting out what we're going to use the office for and in essence, how we're going to go about a hybrid or sort of a flexible model. Now when it comes to the transition, as you said, I think that with the history that I've got at the company and with a range of roles that I played, whether that was strategy for the holding company and talent or in operating settings, particularly at media brands, which is a very digital forward part of our offering and where we first meaningfully incorporated data and tech, I have had the opportunity to work really closely across the portfolio and the group in terms of the senior talent and the clients. So that sort of has helped smooth the transition. And then my CFO partner, Ellen Johnson, has also had a similar profile with holdco corporate roles as well as operating roles we've partnered up with media brands. So I think that's helped. So I'm thinking about that continuity strategically. I think I would break it down kind of from priorities into 2 core buckets for you. I think the steady state, the areas where we sort of stay the course, I think are client centricity. So professional services business. We're evolving it to include this technology layer we've been evolving for some time. And so the primary lens through which we need to look at all of our business decisions is really the client lens. Media adjunct to that is the focus on talent, right? And so as you fight for attention in this very, very cluttered media landscape, it's a very fragmented environment. Of course, ideation and content are very important. But the nature of the work we do has to span a much broader range of channels and formats and consumer touch points. So I think that we look for talent across a broader range now in the more traditional marketing services areas, but also in data and performance media and e-com and all of these developing areas, which I'm sure we'll talk about at some length. And so I think other areas of continuity, kind of work in progress, but internal collaboration. So I think the nature of the work we're doing with clients is becoming more complex. And so how do we help them solve for this world in which they are having to pull together such a broad range of inputs, right? So fast turnaround and taking all the information that gets generated with all their interactions with consumers and applying that to driving ideas, messaging, all of the engagements with brands. So integrated solutions is a focus for us. We call that open architecture. And then I think operationally, I think our discipline on costs, our commitment to a solid balance sheet, sort of, I think, a shareholder-friendly approach to capital allocation. Those also remain priorities for us. And then I'm sure we'll talk a bit about what's happened in the last year, 18 months vis-a-vis the ways we've been able to make the company fit-for-purpose sort of on a go-forward basis, stronger going forward. And then I think the last consistent priority is ESG. So whether that's diversity or whether that's other facets of ESG, I think we are holding ourselves accountable to high standards on DE&I. It's connecting incentives for senior executives to our progress on equity in terms of setting very clear and focused goals on climate change. And then in terms of what's changing at IPG. I'd say we've been telegraphing a lot of the strategic actions over 4 or 5 years now, right? So we've been making decisions, anticipating the changes in consumer behavior that are driven by technology and that result in this very, very rich data stream. And so all of this gets accelerated by the pandemic. So I think it's less a shift strategically and more a quickening of the pace in some of these areas. So that is the data and technology layer we've built into the company, particularly initially, at least for a number of years inside the media offering. And that means that what we do is more precise and more accountable. And that sort of becomes the -- like the GPS that guides the work we do. So the decision-making is informed by the data and then everything that our clients invest becomes more precise and accountable. And I think that that disruption is going to continue. So I think that the deeper your understanding of existing audiences for any kind of a franchise, any kind of a business and then potential audiences, so you become more customer-centric by personalizing the communications and the experiences. And then the delivery of message is sort of more trackable and more effective, and it's less, I think, even about the kinds of old school efficiencies and really more about, can you help me spot new channels for engagement, new business growth opportunities. And then the very last thing I'll throw out there, again, just to contextualize the discussion, I'm sure, is a really key strategic pillar I think is going to be around, privacy is where brands are going to build consumer trust. And privacy and sort of the way in which you treat that value exchange around data with consumers is going to be very important for a brand and for any kind of a business. So I think in connecting with consumers in a way that's going to drive business results as the digital landscape gets more complicated and it gets more regulated, are you doing so in the right way, right? So I think that there, we're very focused on approaches and even IP and kind of a consultative way of engaging with clients to help them guide their decision-making as it relates to the major digital platforms as it relates to identity resolution and as it relates to, I think, kind of connecting up to martech. So that's an area where I think we're going to be increasingly focused going forward.

That is a very helpful answer. Maybe a quick question, I think, on the structural outlook for the agencies. And as you know, I think the market has been maybe overly concerned or maybe concerned for the right reason over the risk around the citification or in-housing or fee pressure. Where do you see the structural debate today and for the next few years? How do you think the COVID crisis might have changed the relationship between you and your clients and changed basically the structural debates?

Well, I think I'd ask the structural question as you did and then maybe park the question of, say, in-housing or so. Like at the structural level, I think what we're seeing is both, right? I think we're seeing an industry that's benefiting from the broader economic recovery. But I think we, as a company, are also seeing the positive or maybe the continued positive impact of the kind of strategic decisions that I just mentioned, right? So I think that as you see these deeper fundamental changes in media and tech and the marketing sector, that's driving opportunity and growth. And then there's also the macroeconomically, right? And so I'd sort of say that when I look at our portfolio and what we've built and are we capitalizing on these underlying changes, I think what I try to do is strip out kind of that macro sort of economic tailwind, right? So I think if I try to look at the differentiation, are we doing the job we need to be doing, I'd sort of say, in the 2-year kind of growth stack going back, say, for midyear this year, our comp compared to flat for the industry is, say, up 8%. And if you look at '19, again, you've got a sort of 7% or 8% range, and that's where I think the strategic upside is. So there's the economic balance that everybody is benefiting from. But I think structurally, the growth drivers are there for us to keep building on that audience fragmentation, media complexity, connecting the marketing activity of clients, all those factors are in place on a go-forward basis. So that gives us the opportunity to, I think, solve more kind of mission-critical business growth challenges for clients and move upstream, and we've sort of shown that we can do that. And so I think I see some economic tailwinds, but some structural change that is sustainable for us go forward.

And maybe focusing more on the near term. Obviously, the agencies in IPG have seen a very, very strong rebound, and you upgraded your organic growth guidance for the year to 9% to 10% from 5% to 6% before. Can you maybe just go through, again, the key drivers underpinning that sort of guidance upgrade and how are you thinking about the key different moving parts and where is basically the sentiment and how those moving parts have changed so far in Q3?

Sure. I mean I think that in the very first couple of months of this year, I think there was still a great deal of uncertainty macro. And so we didn't actually think that we could fairly issue performance targets for the year. And then in April, we put out a '21 target of 5% to 6%. And then as you say, in July, we took a step function forward and put the current 9% to 10% number out. And I think underlying that 9% to 10% number is that we see the portfolio forward-leaning against these very positive trends that are longer term about transformation of the business. I think we also saw consistent performance across the group. So whether you segment that by region of the world, by portfolio discipline or by client sector, we saw strength across the board. So I think that informed our thinking that there was a change that meant that -- and I think we've got a pretty strong record of being very clear and transparent with the investor community. So we were giving you line of sight into coming out of quite unprecedented period of uncertainty into what we were seeing. Now I think that there's still going to be some pandemic uncertainty if you look at the back end of the year just because the public health situation is still not settled at all really, right? And so that 9% to 10% factors some measure of uncertainty into it. And I think there are some knock-on effects, whether it's the potential supply chain issues that you're seeing, semiconductors and certain sectors. But I think the mitigants that get us to the place where we're still very comfortable with that number are -- the one sector in the portfolio that was really meaningfully impacted in '20 was experiential and events, right? And so that's where you physically need people together to activate on behalf of clients. And for us, that's a quite modest part of the portfolio. It's less than 5% of the revenue base. I think another thing I've called out in prior conversations with you all is that that first period when we went into kind of COVID lockdowns, there was just immense uncertainty about whether or not and how clients were going to operate in this new way of virtual way. In a way, that was a shift to e-commerce and a shift to digital channels. And then, obviously, there was uncertainty about vaccines. So now I think that subsequent waves don't lead to the same kind of pretty dramatic pullback or draconian shutdowns. And then, new business activity has stayed quite active. So we're actually pitching virtually, we've gotten very used to it, we've gotten, I think, quite good at it. It's not the optimal way to build a relationship with clients. But you've seen sizable wins kind of consistently across the board from a team of [indiscernible] early in the year to a Cigna, which was an integrated pitch that involved a number of our agencies and our open architecture approach to more recently a very sophisticated data-led media win at Morgan Stanley E TRADE. So all of those things mean that we are very comfortable with the guidance we put out there. And then obviously, we'll give everybody line of sight into where things stand once we wrap the third quarter and then have our reforecast meetings with operators which are in a few weeks' time and then get on a call with all of you in October.

Great. And maybe just a quick follow-up, like, where are you currently in terms of like project-based work, like especially as we approach the key fourth quarter?

I mean, we're not seeing indications from clients of pullback in project-based marketing activity, right? So I think that's a positive indicator. As you say, it's fairly short notice. So it's work that may not have the kind of visibility as when you're engaged in a macro transformation project or in an AOR relationship. So I think it's early to make the call on the fourth quarter, but we don't have any indications at the moment that would lead us to believe that we're not looking at a solid level of activity in the fourth quarter, but it is early to call that because that's work that actually is often tied to kind of year-end and holidays. And so it's really kind of in November, December time frame. And given that it's short burst, and it can be activated quickly or a client can choose to not pull the trigger on it, at the moment, we're not seeing anything that can tell us what that's going to look like. But right now, clients are staying committed to spend and being in market.

Maybe I just want to go back to what you said earlier on this call. You still have growth opportunities ahead, and it seems like you're adapting well to the transformation of media landscape. And when you look at the organic growth rates, you have been outperforming the industry peers for some time now. What is it that you're doing differently, especially in the areas of like data, tech, digital compared to your peers? Are you seeing any of them catching up? So do you think that sort of period of outperformance can continue?

I don't know that I can speak to what they are doing. And obviously, to your point, the performance seems to demonstrate that what we've got is very competitive. I think that -- I would say that the differentiators for us were -- I think we were early to recognize the importance of digital capabilities. And then we never siloed them, right? So we've never created sort of a large-scale specialist provider for the holding group as a whole. So what we essentially did is we challenged the operators to figure out how they were going to integrate digital expertise into their specific discipline. And then I think most of our investment was organic in talent, right? And then I think another thing that I think differentiates us from peers is that we feel that, I think, philosophically, very strongly that the agency brands are where clients engage. It's where they first become part of our franchise. And it's also where talent chooses to join, where talent engages. So I think that we've never made the focus on the center or the story about the holding company, right? And so that means that a CMO can get resources that are really fit-for-purpose and agency cultures that fit their culture. So I think that that's been important in terms of drawing top talent to us. And now as you say, in terms of data and tech, I think we were building a stack of our own. We made what for us was quite distinctive because for years we had, as I said, done a lot of this organically incubated. And so the Acxiom acquisition was, I think, an acknowledgment of how important data is, but I think also how important scale expertise is, having a brand that is trusted by clients to handle clients' first-party data, and I think that's an important part of this, too. And so I'm thinking -- there's real clarity about what their role is. We've created this data layer at Kinesso, which is where we then activate all of the data. And then we've been really focused on the integration initially, as we said, in the media space, which was the kind of greatest adjacency and a lot of opportunity. But now it's part of all of our engagements with Top 20 clients, and we're bringing it really full circle now where the segmentation and the insights you derive of the data are really informing the strategic jumping off point for content, for creative product, then the message delivery and then you're getting a lot of feedback which means you're optimizing everything from the value or the effectiveness of your media to the actual messaging itself. So for us, that works. I think it's very relevant. And I think that to ask on the part of clients is, can you help us solve for the complexity and can you help us be sure that as we need to be more and more attuned to the flows of kind of a digital economy, are we, as a company, fit-for-purpose to go to market and succeed in that space. So I think that strategically, that's been where we're focused, and I think there's a lot of upside to it. Now have competitors pivoted and either restructured assets or followed on with acquisitions? Sure. But I think it's on us to then make sure that we're integrating them better that the advantage of having been there first means that we're continuing to innovate.

And then I guess IPG has also benefited a lot in recent years from the strength in the healthcare sector. So maybe can you share some color about the growth outlook that you expect for healthcare? And also maybe talk about the rationale behind the recent merger of McCann Health and FCB Health and have you seen any benefits so far from this?

Sure. I mean, look, I mean, that's an interesting combination. I don't know that I would -- I don't think it's a merger per se. I think we want those brands. Again, to my earlier point, we want this brands healthy and active, but benefiting from being kind of even closer collaboration. I guess if I sort of dial back, I think everybody sort of looks at the sector and says, okay, it's just a little north of 25% of our revenue base. But it wasn't always our largest sector, right? And so I think that what you've seen is that investment over time into the sector, the underlying health of the sector, but the fact that we were also taking share. So that's a -- reflects on the quality of the offerings. As it's gotten bigger and more robust, we continue to grow that. I think it's a really promising part of the economy kind of around the world. I think the pandemic is actually kind of reinforcing trends we saw just in tech writ large. But in healthcare, the pandemic is also making consumer awareness of healthcare choices in the sense that consumers want to be more empowered in these areas and kind of how you engage with them and how you deliver an integrated service, not just the treatment itself, but in a macro setting, I mean, all of those, I think, are opportunities for us. And so I think those are all tailwinds in the space. Now that combination, as you say, brings together these 2 very strong, what I would sort of say, are specialist companies under one management team and one network, right? And so I think that what that gets you is, there's complementary geography between those companies. So I think that it opens doors for FCB Health to access a strong McCann global network. It opens doors for McCann to access specialty services that FCB Health had been incubating for some time. And then another really important piece of it is, with a much bigger view of the hole, we can proactively manage the careers of the talent of the 5,000-plus people that are in this organization, and that's a really big plus because I think that kind of building and growing talent is a really important priority for us and kind of a determinant of our success. So I think all of those things are going to mean that what was a relationship that worked well and which we brought together under these open architecture solutions is really kind of codified, and I think it's just the muscle memory gets tighter and things happen faster and the investment is smarter because when you've had separate P&Ls or where they were part of other groups within the portfolio, what you might not have had is the clarity around we can help you solve that or we're both thinking about or hunting in the same space. So we've seen opportunities already land with clients that are more projecty and episodic around people opening doors and seeing these opportunities. And then we've got a couple of sizable new business opportunities that are just firing up where they're going to go to market as a team, which I think is really exciting. And I think that new business in that space is actually usually very under the radar, right? So we see lots of activity there. But by the nature of the clients, it's not something that gets as much fanfare. And I think the last thing on healthcare that I would call out for you is that we do have it across the portfolio. So that's where we've got the capabilities that have the professional communications expertise and have probably the greatest scientific or technical expertise. But healthcare is across the group, right? So within media brands, healthcare is a big part of the offering and performance in recent years. And our approach of really understanding audiences and being very precise and personalized with messaging and then being able to really have a strong sense of what's working and what's not, I think that works very well culturally with healthcare -- in the management of large pharma and healthcare companies. Weber Shandwick has a large practice. Golin, both in the PR space, has built a strong practice in the space. So I think that one of the reasons it's grown is because some of the trends we're now observing macro around, do you have more specialized expertise, are you more comfortable in a data-driven environment. I mean they've been working with restrictions, obviously, vis-a-vis what they can and can't communicate or how they communicate and around privacy for some time. So that's a sector that we feel we're very strong in, and we think continues to show opportunity.

Just to go back to what you said earlier on the changes we've seen in the data privacy landscape, like what do you think are the implications of Google Chrome's changes to the third-party cookie policy? What do you think of the implications of that? And just in general, like more broadly speaking, you are seeing increased regulatory pressure, especially on the big tech and see what's happening in China right now. What do you think that's going to change in the media mix? Are you going to actually see the tech giants getting even stronger? Like what do you think should happen?

I mean, look, I think that it's an opportunity to demonstrate value, right? Because, as you say, clients are looking at a landscape in which they need to be strong themselves or there's the potential to be less able to -- I mean, I think I would say there is no -- I think clients need to be sort of in control of their own destiny as it relates to data and to data-driven marketing, right? So I think that we head into this world where cookies deprecate and then they go away entirely, and we don't know the exact timing of that. But we know that that's coming. On device IDS, also, I think, ultimately, kind of get impacted in some way as a result of this. So what clearly happens is first-party data becomes more and more ascendant. And I mean, I think we saw that going back a ways now, which is what informed the decision to get a little bit out of character vis-a-vis our prior -- we built it ourselves, and we've done well with digital, but we looked at data and the velocity at which it was coming and the complexity and the fact you needed to do it at scale; so can you handle PII, do you really have data expertise. And so that is something we foresaw in doing the Acxiom deal. So now I'm thinking, there are any number of alternative approaches to kind of cookies that are going to be required. So how do you identify audiences? How do you activate your marketing investment? And I think the biggest thing that clients are focused on and correctly so is kind of their identity graph and an approach to identity resolution that gives them a place at the table that is on an equal footing with the partners that they then do need to engage with kind of across the ecosystem, right? So I would say that from where we sit, Acxiom puts us at the table with a very -- with the expertise with many-decade history of strength around kind of privacy because I think that you're building these bridges with consumers. And if you're doing so with permission and in a way that they trust, that becomes super important as -- no matter what business you're in, you clearly need to solve for this in order to be successful going forward, right? So once we get over the hump with, is the infrastructure built correctly and do I have consent, then there are going to be all of these sort of technology solutions, some of which we're building ourselves and some there'll be third parties, and there are already a number of players in that space who are trying to bridge that gap, and some will be with the tech giants, partnering with them, right? And so I think you're going to have multiple ways to solve for this problem where you can kind of match up to audiences and you're going to be using probabilistic in certain settings and deterministic in others based again on who you're partnering with and how you're taking the data on board in the first place. But I think that makes the nature of what we do more strategic. And again, the more accountable we are, I think, more we can partner with clients on kind of higher order business challenges and on unlocking growth from what used to be -- you don't want -- we're beyond the point at which marketing was seen as a cost. And yet, there're still some pressures that we've seen for some time around that. So I think that the further we move into proving that we are a valued partner in this space, you get to effectiveness over efficiency, you get to more true pay for performance. And then I think you get to new models altogether around kind of outcome-based approaches and ways to kind of share in the upside we create with clients. So I think all of that's exciting. But all of that's a multiyear process because it's a very kind of complicated space as cookies go away, kind of ad tech and martech come together. And then I think, again, every client is saying, how do I take control of my data. And certain categories are much further along than others. But even in what were traditionally less developed areas, you've got clients very focused on solving for them.

Maybe you can touch base on competition. Can you maybe talk about how the competitive environment has changed, especially in the sort of digital transformation pitches or data-related pitches? Like how often you're now seeing consultants or winning against consultants versus, for instance, 3 years ago?

I mean it's funny. The headlines tend to run ahead of the reality, generally. I think that's something you find again and again and so I think that it's interesting because the lack of -- I mean, there's -- from where we sit, the urgency has always been there, right? So are we investing behind these tech and data capabilities, are we solving for this more fragmented ecosystem? The pandemic kind of puts that sort of a few years forward very quickly. So I think -- here's what we bring. We bring this distinctive on -- I think our good days or I would -- I aspire for it to be unique. But I think we bring a combination of creativity and the ability to create content, which is at a premium. Media, which is how you push those messages out, but also where you get a lot of signal back. And then this data architecture and data processing capabilities. So that's a very strong combination. We see the consultants sell them at this point. It doesn't mean we don't run into them. And I don't think it means that directionally, as people say, this is coming. It stands to reason that we will likely bump up against one another, right? Now do they have -- they come with a different set of skill sets. But if I'm solving for client problems where they're asking us to think about, are we fit-for-purpose in a digital economy and how do we grow, that combination of those 3 buckets that I laid out I think positions us well. So we'll see how or where it works out. I think it just becomes more competitive because the complexity ratchets up. And so we're ready for that. And if the complexity ratcheting up means there'll be some new players, I think we'll figure it out as we go. But to date, as I said, headlines ahead of reality, but I'm sure that we'll see more of that over time.

Great. Maybe if you could talk about your margins. You also upgraded your margin guidance alongside your organic growth guidance of the first half results, around 16%. Do you think there could be upside to that figure given the evolution of the pandemic, the fact that we might not have resume travel or still working from home? Can you maybe just talk about the different, like the evolution of different cost buckets in the second half?

Well, I mean, up to a point. I mean obviously, I can't speak out of turn, given that where we are in the quarter and the year. I guess here's what I'd say. I'd say that it is all the things that you just called out. It's a really, really unprecedented operating environment. So I was having lunch literally yesterday with a scale media owner who's actually presenting at some point over the course of the conference. And this is somebody who's been in a number of businesses, in quite innovative businesses in the space. And he said, I've learned more in the past 18 months and have been more challenged to sort of solve for things than I had been in the prior decade. So it is a very unusual operating environment, right? There's just a lot of moving pieces. We've never seen -- we've never gone into a situation like this. We've never come out of a situation like this. And then, some of what logic would tell you is going to happen. We don't really know when it's going to happen. And then some of it's entirely outside of our control, right? So I'd kind of say to you, we just upgraded the guidance from 15.5% to 16% in July, right? Sitting where I sit and saying, okay, what are we delivering as a company and how do I feel about that compared to '19, that's a 200 basis point improvement, and obviously compared to '20, that's probably 250 bps, right? So I think that that reflects the benefits of the restructuring, that reflects the strong growth environment we find ourselves in, which, as I said, is both some macro and a lot specific to us. So travel is a big -- kind of we're uncertain about that, right? I don't know what do I tell you about that. I don't know that it comes back at levels that were pre-pandemic whenever it does normalize. But I do know there's a lot of pent-up demand for it, right? And so we were chatting before we came on about starting to see clients and engage with colleagues. And so the pent-up demand of '18 months have not have been face-to-face is going to create something that won't be the normalized rate. And that will sort of impact maybe the back of this year and some of next year. So I think at 16%, we're sitting in a very solid place. It's, I think, a strong performance. We'll see kind of where we are relative to the top line. And then, I think it's a sort of jumping off point for conversations about '22 and beyond.

And do you think that level of 16% is sort of sustainable for the group? Or actually, you think there's room for much more expansion in the years to come? Where do you think the margin will...

I think we see it as a sustainable level, right? And so then there are these puts and calls around some expense categories that probably impact a part of '22. But we definitely -- we see it as sustainable. If you think about it, over time we've demonstrated that where there is growth, we can grow margin. So that is a condition that I think persists, right? Then there are the cost reductions that we committed to those savings, and we're going to keep reporting back on how we're doing relative to those savings. And as you know, some of those real estate savings actually hit in '22. And then I think kind of lastly, the newer capabilities that we're talking about, the more sophisticated data-driven offerings and the technology layer that Kinesso kind of puts out there for us, those are higher value offerings. And whether it's the license tech or that you do a certain kind of more consultative work or that, as I said, you've got outcome-based or performance-based modeling, I think those can be accretive as well. So we see it as sustainable. I think the issue is kind of first half of '22, and then we get to what is normalization, and we'll obviously unpack this again when we give you clearer line of sight into the back half of this year in October as a matter of regular course.

Maybe as a last question because we're running out of time, unfortunately. Can you maybe just give us an update on your key capital allocation priorities? And what does it take to resume your buyback program?

I mean I think our priorities there have been very consistent. And I think I said at the outset, there are certain things where we really are steady state. So I'd sort of say, I mean, people who know us know that the priorities and the commitment is to a strong balance sheet, financial flexibility, I think relatively modest M&A. So I think strategic M&A that work very well for us, and I think that's our focus go-forward. And then kind of balanced use of cash, right? So some of it is to that modest thoughtful M&A bucket. Then, kind of dividend growth, which we've maintained through the pandemic and through kind of Acxiom acquisition. And then share repurchase. So I think we've got a $500 million debt maturity that comes up in October. We've been really clear that's going to be redeemed from cash on hand. And so to my mind, is that's behind us. We start looking and planning into next year. And so resuming share repurchase is clearly going to be an important topic for us with the Board and for the management team to have an opinion on. And so I think it will be about timing and about the level which we deem appropriate. And so I'd sort of say stay tuned.

Awesome. Thank you very much. That concludes our session really well. Thank you very much, Philippe, again, for joining us, and wish you have a good rest of the day.

All right. We'll see what we can do, you as well, I hope. And we've got a bunch more of these to do.

Thank you.

Okay.