The Pebble Group plc (PEBB) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Welcome to The Pebble Group Full Year 2023 Results Webinar. [Operator Instructions] This webinar is being recorded. I now hand over to Chris Lee, CEO; and Claire Thomson, CFO. Chris, over to you.

Tamzen, thank you, and hi, everybody, and welcome to today's Pebble Group presentation. We're going to talk you through the results for 2023, and also kind of give you a bit of an insight into how 2024 started today. As Tamzen said, we'll talk through this in around about sort of 20 minutes and at the end of that time, we're really happy to take some questions if you have some. And so this presentation is on our website but we'll kind of walk through it as well. Claire and I have been sort of the center of the business, with myself for 24 years now, Claire for about 16. And so it's a business we're really invested into, not only financially through shareholders and things like that, but also very emotionally in terms of the business as it is today and the group as it is today, is really a fraction of our lives and our careers as well. So it's something we feel very kind of passionate about and something very close to. In terms of The Pebble Group and the industry that we're in, we're in the promotional product sector and promotional products are all around us. So what size of company, what sector, what geography you're in, businesses buying promotional products to make that emotional connection with their stakeholders, it might be employees, it might be customers or suppliers but really proud of who they are and what they stand for and want to project that through product. And that leads to a much larger industry than many people had realized at the beginning. So the industry here, we're kind of splitting it out and the positions that we are in, in it. So the industry on a global basis, estimated around $50 billion. That's quite large for a business that you perhaps won't be that obvious to many people. And we have a lens into that $50 billion business for about $1.5 billion, and that's where 2 positions in the industry. From Facilisgroup is technology business. We're providing their technology to some medium-sized distributors in North America, got around about 240 customers, and they put $1.4 billion worth of sales through our technology. That's around about 5.5% of that North American market. And then through Brand Addition and Brand Addition sells promotion products into some of the largest best-known brand in the world, and having around about sort of $1.1 billion is actually selling product directly to those businesses on looking after the quality, the creativity of the product, who's hands it's made and where it comes from and doing that on an international basis. And through those 2 businesses, we run quite separately but those 2 businesses aggregate together and sit as The Pebble Group and the business you know today and what we've presented. In terms of highlights for 2023, I think it's really important to the outset, we said we had to revise down our expectations in November. It was the first half, so it was pretty strong, pretty sensible first half but in the second half, some of the spend from our customers through Brand Addition and some of the GMV that was coming through Facilis came down, and it's quite a difficult second period. But still very profitable, still generating a lot of cash. And so nothing is broken. I think that's really important to say, there's no fundamental change in the quality of the businesses or the opportunity that presents ahead of itself as well, a really strong quality business. And in terms of the cash that's on the balance sheet there, Claire will talk you through where that comes from. But at the year-end, that's about of GBP 16 million on the balance sheet as well. So taking it to Facilis and Brand Addition. So Facilisgroup, the rate of growth slowed slightly but for very kind of explainable reasons. And we still believe we can kind of take that beyond the sort of the levels it is today in terms of those revenue growth. And the attach rate that we talked about. So in other words, of that $1.4 billion that goes through our technology, how much can we retain of that because our customers are seeking value from us, that's gone up from 1.5% to 1.6%. On Brand Addition, some very sector-specific reasons that revenue has gone down, and Claire will talk about that later. But again, really important to say that remains a really high-quality business. We have really good people, managing some great customers and some of the best-known brands in the world choose to work with Brand Addition on a long-term basis. And if we look past what's been a difficult second half of 2023 for Brand Addition, that remains a very, very strong and great business we're really proud of. And you can see that the services we're providing to our customers actually will be able to charge a higher margin because there's a higher level of services going in there. So what we were pointing out before was a 30% gross margin. We're now moving that up to 34%, it says there that we're saying a long-term sort of rate of 33% is what should be looking for. That's highlights of 2023. I hand over to Claire to talk about the numbers.

Okay. Thank you. So yes, so on this page, just the highlights and the kind of the first 4 bar charts are really showing the headlines of the update that we provided in November. So that sector-specific impact on our revenue in Brand Addition and the slowdown of GMV in the second half and Facilis has kind of translated through our revenue line and all the way to EPS. But as Chris has just said, underneath that, our businesses remain really strong, profitable and cash generative, and the chart over on the right-hand side is showing that we kind of remain disciplined in our working capital management. Our businesses generate cash. And through that reduction in EBITDA, we still managed to move that cash number forward. Quick recap on this slide in terms of just helping you get your head around the financial dynamics of the 2 businesses because they are quite different. So the left-hand pie is showing revenue by business and that kind of the pale blue piece of that pie is Facilisgroup. So we've got kind of the SaaS revenues, which are a much smaller proportion of our overall group revenue, you can see on the right that those translate into the 50% EBITDA margins. I mean, Facilis it might be kind of 14% of revenue but it's pretty much 50% of our group's EBITDA. And that grew in the year, a combination of Facilis growing and obviously, the kind of slowdown in Brand Addition and changes of dynamic slightly as well. And P&L. So kind of we said it 4 times now but the revenue number did go backwards last year, and that was really focused around our tech clients in Brand Addition and our consumer clients. So kind of no clients were lost but there was a reduction in spend across those 2 sectors, and we'll come on to that in a little bit more detail later. But kind of underneath that, as Chris has also just said, we managed to grow our gross profit margin, and that's a combination of Brand Addition providing more services to its clients. And on the back of our clients recognizing the value of those services has been able to make that pricing forward. And then obviously Facilis at that 100% gross margin, as that becomes a bigger part of our group, that gross profit number does move forward. And -- so below that, I think the major changes on the P&L we're continuing to amortize our investment that we've made in the new products at Facilis, so that D&A charges move forward and then our share-based payment charge because of the performance in the second half was lower than we've been forecasting, and so you can see that reduction year-on-year in that number. Cash flow. It's pretty straightforward and simple. So below EBITDA movement in working capital. And what -- so in Brand Addition, that investment in working capital does move in line with sales. So sales have moved down and our working capital is unwind, and you can see an inflow from that. CapEx, we are investing heavily in our new product development at Facilis, and that did continue through last year, and we will touch on that a little bit more later. And then the kind of 2 new things that are on the cash flow that weren't there this time last year, where we introduced our maiden dividend and paid that back in June. And then we also bought some of our own shares in December to satisfy the LTIP that vested at the end of last year. Balance sheet, again, like the cash flow is pretty straightforward. So when you think about our group balance sheet, it's really, all the working capital is associated with Brand Addition, there is very little working capital in Facilis. So noncurrent assets are goodwill that's associated with our historic acquisitions and the investment that we've been making in products. Below that, we've got some really high-quality working capital in terms of what we've got invested in stock of Brand Addition. That's stuff that we're holding for some of the biggest brands in the world, and that's underwritten in our contracts. And again, we've got the payables and receivables that have moved in line with volumes. This slide is kind of thinking about how we share our thoughts around capital allocation. Left-hand side, there were kind of some decisions that we're making and some cash that we need to spend in managing the business, and that's the kind of the group and its numbers as you see today. So obviously, we like to have some cash on the balance sheet, and we feel that we're in a real sensible place with that at the end of the year. Working capital, as Brand Addition returns to growth, then we will need our cash to go back into our working capital number. And then we've got capital expenditure, both in Brand Addition to kind of run the business and continue to try and generate efficiencies through that number and although our investment in our Syncore product in Facilis. On the right-hand side, we're making some different decisions about our cash. So that's how can we look to generate further growth. And so we are investing cash in new products at Facilis, as kind of referred to that a few times now. We are -- we paid a maiden dividend last year. We've increased that to GBP 2 million per -- in respect to 2023. And then we've also announced that we're going to start a share buyback that will kind of get working on over the next few weeks.

Okay. Thanks, Claire. And so if now sort of looks at the group numbers, what we'll do, we'll dive under those now and go into the individual businesses. So I'll talk you through Facilisgroup, Claire will do the same on Brand Addition, and then we'll finish with a bit of ESG and outlook. And so the chart you can see there at the bottom right-hand side of that slide is how this industry works. We have the suppliers, the distributors and the brand or the sort of the people who kind of actually kind of use and hold the product. And Facilis really works with those suppliers and those distributors to sort of bring them together and use technology to efficiently interact and help them kind of professionalize grow and move forward. And that's where Facilis sits. So we've taken the business, I think we bought it in 2019, and it's probably doubled in size since then. And we're really ambitious to take that business on and to grow further. This is a business that we bought in 2019. So my heritage in Brand Addition, we had a change of management in October of 2023, and that's allowed me to get a lot more involved on a day-to-day basis. So I've spent a lot of the last 6 months in Facilis and with the team, with our partners, with our suppliers, managing now -- and say, a really kind of a much more close basis than I have in the past. And that's something I've really enjoyed in taking a lot of value out of. And so when I'm kind of speaking about sort of where we're heading and where we're doing those things right now, I am working with the team on the ground in that business to do that on a day-to-day basis, which I've really enjoyed. They have some kind of -- we talked about the attach rate before. So this is on the left-hand side, pulling that out. We can see that we've grown our GMV quite nicely, which is the sort of the gray bars on the left. And there's about $1.4 billion going through. Our revenue of $22.2 million is basically against -- is divided one by the other, and you get that attach rate of 1.56%. And our job through all the products that we're trying to introduce to help our suppliers, to help our partners and their business become more efficient and profitable is getting more GMV through our technology and then sort of provide value to those suppliers and to those distributors that allow us to collect a decent percentage of that. And that's the premise technology to help our businesses and our suppliers grow. So we've got some wonderful stats that come behind it. So you can see sort of from a revenue to EBITDA to the sort of the margins, which is on the top line. There's some really kind of nice dynamics that go in there. The rate of growth did slow in the second half because our GMV, if you kind of go to the sort of bottom and middle chart, you can see our GMV actually sort of slowed and it was level, 1 year to the next. And that's because the partners that were actually sort of -- after a number of years of really very good growth, actually, the market at large is a little bit harder in 2023. But again, that doesn't change the market fundamentally. We've got very, very strong businesses that sit behind our partner numbers in the GMV and those are increasing steadily. And so the more we can kind of increase our partner numbers in a responsible fashion, the more the GMV goes forward, which pushes our third chart on the bottom-hand side of the preferred spend, which again supports our income as well. So all those charts are moving in a really nice direction. The market itself was a little harder in the second half of 2023 but none of that changes the opportunities and the really sort of excellent and profitable business that Facilis has. In terms of partner numbers, it's a question we always get and kind of go into some detail. And so rather than just put the numbers out there themselves, I think kind of a little bit of an explanation behind them both for last year and how 2024 stats is important too. And so again, the left-hand chart says, there's a nice bridge there of kind of how we went from 225 to 242. And the retention rates are actually excellent. And actually, if you kind of take away the businesses that acquired each other, then the retention rate is even higher, and I think that's an outstanding number that's going to be very hard to be as good as that going forward but certainly, that's our ambition to keep those as very, very high. On the right-hand side is how 2024 has started to date. And if you kind of look just from 1 number, the first number to the last, it looks like the partner numbers have come down. But the story behind that is a very clear one. And we have a new sales team who will really develop in understanding the market itself, the product that we have, and they're doing a great job in that learning curve, and we expect the numbers that partners that we acquire through 20 -- that we win through 2024 to grow. But again, growing responsibly with partners who [ look over ] the right size to support our business going forward. And those -- we've had 5 businesses that have been acquired in the year. But again, that's kind of good customers, good business being acquired by each other, realizing some value that they built up over the long term. So that's not a reflection of servicing by Facilis to those businesses. But there has been some churn but they're quite small, the businesses that have left. So in numbers, it looks sort of like it's been a slow start. But actually in the GMV that's all going through the system, we feel pretty relaxed about where we are in those numbers. And we're really working hard to make sure there was excellent partner retention numbers to stay as the quality levels that they are today. And then in terms of how we try to take this business and scale it and kind of take it forward, so doubled since we acquired the business, and we're ambitious to take that further, again, in a very responsible and fashion that's sort of still delivers great service to our customers and still delivers great margins and come out in profitability as well. And so the dark blue is where we want to take our kind of product Syncore, which is what the business has been built on today. And taking that forward from, say, we kind of had less than 100 when we started. We're in the mid sort of 200s now. And we do want to continue to grow. We think it's about 1,600 businesses out there that there's a target market for that population of partners. On top of that, we are building some new products and -- that Claire kind of talked about earlier, and we were investing into those things. Those new products is an e-commerce platform and a version of Syncore that is based and focused upon the really long tail of small businesses. And what we'd like to do with those 2 is, the e-commerce platform is really expanding the wallet --- share of wallet we have on our existing customers and getting a product that's right for them. They're all buying some sort of e-commerce platform at the moment. We'd like to work with them to help us understand what can we build to generate that income from them and really integrate our e-commerce platform into our order workflow platforms, Syncore. And then Orders products well, which is looking at the really long tail of small distributors that are in the North American market and saying, can we take our industry knowledge, our technology knowledge and apply that to that group of customers and expand the addressable market we're working with. And by building those 3 strategies on top of each other, we really are ambitious to responsibly grow, and growth, I think it's really important to say, it starts with good retention levels and keeping our eye on our existing customers and making sure nobody takes them for granted, and we kind of providing them with the right service, will be a great foundation to grow that business beyond where it is today and towards that [ $50 million. ] And then, so finally, kind of we always finished with one of the focus for the different businesses over the next 12 months. And these words and these 3 things are something that I've been using with the team since I've been sort of much more closely working with the team at Facilis on a day-to-day basis. We shared this with our customers, and we're share this with investors too. So really important, growth starts with providing great service to our existing customers, and that's what we're kind of making sure we're doing and our suppliers as well. Demonstrating that with our technology leader. So continuing to develop the technology we already have but bringing new technology to market, that does grab the attention of current and potentially new customers to demonstrate we are that technology leader. And then really kind of concentrating on the team. I think one of the things that's been really enjoyable since I've been more closely involved is getting to know the senior people and the team but also the wider business as well, much better. And there's some quality people in Facilis. And I've really enjoyed getting to know them. I also want to add to that team as well. And the first part of adding to that team is recruiting a Chief Product Officer, which will start next week -- in fact, next month. And that's going to be a big part of delivering the first 2 things on an overall basis. So I'm going to pass to Claire, and have a drink of water.

Thank you. So just -- focus again that we're going back to showing the industry and where does Brand Addition sit in the industry. So Brand Addition is in the middle. It's a really large distributor that's connecting brands and their demand for products with the product that's supplied by the suppliers. And just to kind of refresh your memories, so Brand Addition is working internationally under contract with some of the largest brands in the world. Similar theme to the KPIs that we shared in Facilis, so kind of the top charts on this slide are showing the numbers and the financials. So the impact on revenue and our EBITDA but again, also pulling out has been able to move that gross margin forward. And the bottom-left pie -- in fact bottom left, right? This is how it look. So the bottom-left pie is probably a bit more interesting than it normally has been, and we'll go into picture, I'll show that in a bit more detail on the next slide and that showing kind of how our revenue breaks down by sector and [indiscernible] click on. You can see really about the impact of both consumers. So that FMCG and beauty, the clients there, there has been a little bit less with us last year and also the slowdown in technology. But on the other side of that chart, you can show that -- you can see that our other sectors actually move forward. So then we're talking about more traditional sectors of transport, engineering, financial services. So kind of the impact on Brand addition was very much focused around technology and consumer. But no clients have been lost, all our customers remain customers, they're amazing brands, and we believe that, that kind of that spend will return. And I think it's important to pull out what we're trying to say in the middle of this slide and that we've got excellent retention rates in Brand Addition. So we haven't -- we didn't lose anybody, and our top 10 customers remain with us. And we've had really experienced and high-quality team that hold on to those relationships and work with those customers but a global proposition and Brand Addition wins and differentiates itself when it can kind of -- when it can offer those global brands, the opportunity to stand behind the ESG messages that are very important to them and becoming increasingly so. And again, what's our focus for 2024 in Brand Addition? It's -- I think Chris used the phrase, growth starts with retention, and it's the same here. So let's hold on to all those amazing names that we've got and those logos and kind of really focus on implementing the new business that we won in 2023. Continue to attract new logos into our business, I think, Brand Addition, as I've just said, it differentiates itself through its ESG, its international reach and the amazing product they provide. So that's kind of keep focusing on where we're different and win new contracts. And then as we've said as well, we were very successful at moving forward with that margin. All the teams are very successful at moving forward that margin this year, and we want to hold on to that and keep it going forward.

Okay. Thanks, Claire. And so we've got a couple of slides always on the ESG, and it's an important part of what we -- we don't sort of just kind of try and copy and paste what someone else is doing. We're trying to listen and learn about best practice and compliance, but actually then put this in our own tone of voice, do things that do make a difference to our business but actually don't do things just for the sake of it. And so we have a great team at the center of Pebble Group who kind of run this but then they kind of engage very highly in the teams at Facilis and Brand Addition to make sure this is kind of flowing through our business in a way that's really makes a difference. On the left-hand side, we have the 4 cornerstones that we used, we have evolved those slightly. And again, because it's really important to make sure we read these things and we can feel it, and we can recognize it happening in our business on a day-to-day basis. And that's what's -- what truly is happening. And what we're doing, we're putting out our third ESG report and that's getting published alongside the report and accounts next week [ early.] And so that will be on our website. So it's a great piece of work that really sort of demonstrates a lot of what we're actually doing on a day-to-day basis as a business. And so please, kind of really we value feedback on that and anything you think could be doing differently or you'd like to know more about. And so that really kind of brings us into the outlook. And so 2024 starting in line with our expectations. So what does that mean? We're 10 weeks in, as we sitting, talked to you here. And so that means kind of our management accounts are in the right place, kind of the order intakes that were expected in the GMV that we're tracking on a kind of daily, weekly basis, are kind of in line with what we've expected and we've spoken to the analysts and guide those numbers. So really important to be saying sort of -- kind of I did find the sort of second half of last year, quite difficult because, been a public company for over 4 years now and kind of the first time we've actually guided numbers down in 2023. So that did kind of have an impact. But also we're moving forward. I think we're back on the offensive and on the attack. And it's really kind of nice. I think some of that confidence comes through in not only dividend that's doubling but also a share buyback program because we believe we've got spare cash on the balance sheet, even investing in the products that we are doing, spare cash that kind of takes share price. So we believe it's got good value to shareholders to buy back. So they are the kind of main statements. But I think, really important to say, that middle point there, that's what we've got to be doing best, is concentrating on great businesses, putting those kind of in the right direction. And if we do that, I think this kind of only goes in a good direction for us all. And I think that's kind of everything. So I think -- Tamzen, I think we're going to sort of hand back to yourself and really happy to take any questions.

[Operator Instructions] And we've got a few questions already submitted. Considering half 2 was weaker than half 1, is there likely to be a half 2 weighting to the current year?

So I suppose your comparatives there. You've got a harder comparative revenue in half 1 versus half 2. So I think if we -- our businesses, Facilis kind of is pretty even in terms of those things may be a little bit back half weighted and Brand Addition probably more so. So I don't think that difference is going to change. The business probably will still be second half weighted in terms of revenue and profitability but not highly so. And -- but our comparative is definitely harder in H1 versus H2. So when you look at the percentage comparatives, I think there's a harder one in H2 than -- in H1 than H2. But if we look at how the overall profitability split on itself, I think that will kind of follow similar patterns in the past.

Great. And for those that don't have access to break forecast, what are the profit expectations of full year '24?

Yes. And so we do have some research that we help and have access to -- it's sort of through edison.com. So Edison...

There's a link on our website.

Right. So yes, so the best way to do that and to kind of allow you to download, well, presentations like this or sort of the broker notes and cells we have through Edison put in the public domain, those things. And so you can click onto that link and find out the full detail of that [indiscernible].

Great. And who is your main competitors, if you're happy to comment and what differentiates you from them?

Yes. So again, we've got 2 really different businesses. So there's obviously 2 very different pools. So Brand Addition, I think when it's trying to win a piece of work, if that piece of work is country-specific and quite straightforward and simple, then there can be many competitors in a particular market. When that sort of -- that business is over multiple geographies and it has sort of ESG, it's hard and once doing things on a really highly sort of creative basis, I think Brand Addition becomes more and more differentiated. And so that's the business it tends to kind of win and therefore, kind of keep. In terms of Facilis, I think it's got a really -- an excellent market-leading position. There's always competition, whether it be in the order workflow, whether it be in kind of supply chain management or kind of in the smaller end of the businesses that compete. So quite right, there's always competition out there but we keep our eye on those things but we also kind of want to stay ahead of that and think we've got a market leading position that we shouldn't take for granted and should really take as much advantage of as we can, and that's what we're looking to push in. So there's always competition out there. It definitely kind of makes us better and keeps it on our toes. But understanding the market but actually kind of making sure we stay ahead of it is probably our priorities rather than getting too sort of obsessed with anyone else around us.

Great. And 2 questions around demand. Have customers in technology and FMCG guided for their likely spend in this year? And is the trend positive? And also, if you could comment a little bit why you think there's been a fall in demand going backwards?

Claire?

Yes. Yes. Okay. So I think there's 2 kind of different stories on the consumer versus the tech. So consumer, we experienced a really big peak of post-COVID bubble, if you like, through -- that grew in '20 and then '21. And I think that's been kind of -- that's been coming down through '22 and then again in '23 to those pre-COVID levels. So we don't believe that we've lost market share, but we do think that those customers are spending a little bit less. And our expectation for '24 is that, that will remain flat with where we were in '23, and that's very definitely in our thinking. And technology was slightly different. So that was -- and the clients that we're working within the technology sector recruited really heavily through in '21 and '22. And then we saw kind of a significant number of layoffs in those businesses through '22 and -- probably at the back end of '22 and the beginning of '23. And our spend with those customers is very definitely linked with head count and then also kind of those businesses behaving properly and not being wanted to be seen and spending money on product to give away to their employees when they've just let a lot of people go. So I think -- so that -- I think that's kind of -- we feel like we've moved through that. We're tracking that very carefully in our kind of sense as we're in the early part of this year, and we are kind of what, 10, 11 weeks in now, is that, that intake is gaining momentum and is moving in the right direction, and we would expect that, that will move forward versus '23 as we get through '24. But we aren't expecting that it will go back to the 2022 levels.

Great. What's the outlook for margins?

So, Claire, why don't you...

Yes. Yes. Yes. So Brand Addition, they said the team has done a great job there in moving those gross margins forward. And so whereas historically, we would have always been pointing the analysts to a 30% gross margin for Brand Addition. We have revised that and would now be pointing to around about 33 points. But the reason that we've been able to move those margins forward is because our customers recognize the increased services that we're providing them. And so we've had to invest in our teams and the people in our businesses to be able to provide those services. So from a net margin point of view, we have always pointed 10% for Brand Addition and I would kind of continue to point to that number.

Great. Chris, with your time at Facilisgroup, what are your key learnings?

So the business has been reported to me rather than sort of whereas Brand Addition I have kind of been a big part of that for a long time. And so there was no kind of big crazy kind of, "Oh my God, I didn't know that. That -- I didn't know what was happening there." There's not anything of that sort. It is just a kind of what's been, I suppose, the most enjoyable but also kind of hard work as well, is getting really close to all of the major stakeholders, so the partners, the suppliers and the team as well, both the senior team and the wider business. So I think having -- listening on a direct basis and have an access to that wider team, I think, as I say, sort of I spent the majority of the last sort of 6 months away and away from home and that kind of makes life a little hard some time. But also what I've got out of that is a really great understanding of the business in a much closer basis but also those people and partners, suppliers and the team get an understanding of me as well. And I think, I hope we're better for that. And it's kind of right at the moment, I don't have any intention of putting a new single lead in that business. I want to remain part of it. And I think that's because I've been drawn in by the quality of the partners, the suppliers and the team, and I'm enjoying being a bigger part of that, and I hope I can make a positive difference.

Tremendous. And in Brand Addition, how and when will we see the benefits of the ongoing investment coming through?

So the sort of -- the investment in -- really, I think it's actually the investment that we're putting in over and above our kind of running our business in Facilis. And so hopefully, what we want to see that coming through is certainly we want to see some nice green shoots on our e-commerce platform coming through in 2024. And then sort of the combination of our maturing sales team of Syncore. The e-commerce platform coming through in 2025 and the orders product coming through. That's how we hope to roll that business up. And we don't want to talk about hockey sticks. We want to talk about responsible growth but we believe the strategy is right. And so we're concentrating on the execution of our strategy to deliver great technology into North American promotional products business, and if we can make the businesses of our partners and our suppliers better, we believe that we can benefit from that and have an even stronger business than we do today.

Great. And final question at this stage. Why did you decide on a share buyback rather than a dividend payout?

Again, it's the use of capital. So we are doing a dividend as well as share buyback. And I suppose our dividend, we want to grow on a year-on-year basis. And so I suppose you could make it a special dividend. But I think, listening, learning from shareholders from advisers, it felt like -- the kind of the share price where it is, felt like the buyback was the best thing to do. So if you think of what -- I think, I know which slide, it's Slide 11, Claire talked through. The 3 things that we're looking to do, to over and above the day today, is take Facilis, thank you -- take Facilis further on 0.4 in terms of that capital investment. We have sort of -- we are growing that dividend on an annual basis and wish to do that. And if the spare cash there and the share price is where it was, it kind of the feedback and we'll listen to shareholders, we'll listen to advisers and then make it our call and actually kind of bring in the share buyback. It's the first time we've done it but I think it's been warmly received and not strongly guided but certainly guided by some of our shareholders. So that right-hand side and what we choose to do with our excess cash is -- but we're always thinking about that. And I think this is a slide that we'll kind of reproduce in future periods that gives you a clear indication of what we're trying to do with that. And hopefully, that answers your question.

Great. Thank you very much, indeed. And that's the end of questions. Chris, do you have any closing remarks?

Well, thank you very much for your time and spending that with us. I think, a big thanks to the team as well. So Brand Addition, Facilisgroup and Pebble kind of our business, only what it is because the people that work across multiple brands in multiple geographies. And I kind of feel it every day but I don't say every day, it's a real huge thank you to those guys for all the time and effort that goes into producing. What I'm really proud of, 2 great businesses that sort of a strong positions, and we're looking forward to a successful 2024.

Fabulous. Thank you both very much indeed. And thank you, everyone, for joining us. You'll now be taken to a web page to give some feedback on today's presentation. If you can't complete it now, you'll get a follow-up e-mail about an hour afterwards. We'd be really grateful if you could take a few minutes to complete. Many thanks for joining. This is the end of the webinar.