The Pebble Group plc (PEBB) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, everybody, and welcome to the half year results for '24 for the Pebble Group. My name is Chris Lee, I have Claire Thomson with me as a Chairman, sort of CFO and I'm the Chief Exec. We're going to talk through this presentation, hopefully, in around about sort of 20, 25 minutes. It is on our website as well. If you care to sort of follow through there. And if you want to ask any questions at the end, please sort of raise your hand through the teams and then that will be controlled by Lucy Penfold at the end, who is our Group General Counsel and Company Secretary. And so we'll go straight into it. So I say, myself and Claire, we've been here quite a while. I think 20-something years for myself, and about sort of 16, 17 for Claire. So another business well and very much sort of built in our image. In terms of what we do, we're in the promotional product sector and is a very large sector on a global basis, around about $50 billion. And why that is, this is because any company of any size, any sector, in any geography, will use promotional products to promote its brand, engage with its employees, its customers and suppliers. And when it's doing well, promotional products keep in the hands of the recipient for a long time and remind that recipients of the individual that gave it to them, the brand that gave it to them, whoever might be, so it really creates an emotional attachment between a recipient and the brand actually carries the [ ForEx ] name. So in terms of the market, around about $50 billion, probably half of that's in North America. And the lens which Pebble Group looks at the industry is through two different -- differentiated businesses. So we see about $1.5 billion of that through the group, $1.4 billion, and that comes through Facilis. That's our technology platform based entirely in North America at the moment. And we have only managed customers who are -- their businesses are generally turning over something $5 million, $6 million, and they're using our technology completely within their organization. And so through there, we have 1 million or so orders, say, $1.4 billion of sales to the end user, and that's around about $1 billion worth of purchases from the industry as well. So we have a huge amount of data and understanding of the industry that we collect through that technology platform. And the second part of our group is Brand Addition. So Brand Addition actually sells products, some of the biggest companies in the world and does that on a global basis. Those businesses are looking for -- understanding of where the product comes from, whose hands it's made in, and what materials it's made of, and but also want something on a global basis on consistently. And so through those two businesses Facilisgroup and Brand Addition add together to make a Pebble Group. Hopefully, what we'll [ discuss ] during today, you'll make your own minds up is that we think there's a super business here and something we're very proud of. We have around about 450, that's 500 people working across the globe on the business. And what we think would create is differentiation through technology and sustainability. And that is exactly where we think the industry is going to be from center of this industry going forward, we think those two skill sets are going to be most paramount in what's going to put us forward in the industry. We have a global footprint. So our technology, a lot of U.K. businesses, technology-oriented might be trying to take their technology into the U.S. We already have that established footprint in North America. That is where our business is. And Brand Addition has footprints across Asia, North America and Europe as well. Claire and I have been part of the business for quite a while. But also, we certainly don't know we know everything at all. We're looking to bring new skill sets, new people in all the time. And today, we're really proud and pleased that Anne de Kerckhove has joined us as our Chair and really looking forward to lean on Anne's experience certainly in the sort of SaaS tech business. And both of these businesses produced excellent cash generation, cash conversion, and that leads to having a great balance sheet debt-free. And so we think those five items there, are kind of why we're different, why we've invested into. So you can make your own mind or hopefully, you can demonstrate that as we go through. In terms of highlights, we haven't kind of shed the lights out in terms of sort of growth and profitability, but I think we saw a really incredible performance. So in terms of EBITDA, it's pretty flat year-on-year. That's based on growing our EBITDA margin and also generate a little more cash. So in that sort of $5 million of cash that's on the balance sheet at the end of the year, there's been more distributions to shareholders through dividend and share buyback than it was last year as well. So that again demonstrates that cash-generative nature of the business. In terms of Facilisgroup, I've spent a lot of the last 12 months there, in terms of leading directly in that business when we had a change of leadership last year. We've added new talent to the organization, and I've really got my hands dirty over in the last 12 months. And I think really put that business on a great foot in to really kind of expand and take advantage of the growth opportunity. Two really key indicators for us moving forward and what our GMV or the sales that go through the platform and the amount that spend with our preferred suppliers, and both those are kind of taken forward and moving well, which means it should be future growth and indication of that. We made it very clear. We've also put a lot into a capital expenditure into growing products and putting more into product. That is going to -- it peaked in 2023. It's coming down in '24, it will further come down at '25. And we've already kind of pointed to that, it's an important indicator again, we'll generate more cash flow what can we do with it. In terms of Brand Addition, we did have a tough second half in 2023. We didn't lose any customers, though, kind of those customers spend a little bit less. But that's bounced back very well. And so in terms of the first half of 2024, we feel that that's going to return a lot to stability there than where we are now. And what it's also have done, some of the best companies in the world choose to use Brand Addition and stick with it. But also by offering more to those businesses, we have actually moved the gross margin forward as well. And that trend has moved forward from 2021, '22, '23, et cetera. So a really good position that set. And so they are the highlights, what we're going to do now. Claire's going to talk you through some of the financials, then I'll come back to go into the facility in detail. Claire will talk you through Brand Addition, and then we look forward to any questions.

And so this page, just setting out the highlights of the year, the first for going through the P&L, and I'll touch on that in a couple of slides in a bit more detail. But essentially, the same messages that Chris has just given, they're really sensible credible performance for the first half. EBITDA is in line with where we were this time last year and the same operating profit. And then, you can see in that end metric on the right, the progress that we've made on cash, and also moving that number forward after the increase in distributions and returns to shareholders. And just to recap on this one on the financial dynamics of the group because the businesses are quite different. So the left hand side shows you the revenue by business and that kind of dark blue part of the pie is a Brand Addition product sales, which is the largest share of the group's revenue. We get the smaller share, which is the SaaS revenues of the Facilisgroup. But those revenues translate a very high EBITDA margins. And so you can see on the right-hand side that the business has contributed roughly 50-50 to the group's EBITDA. So income statement. So revenue really sensible performance down slightly on what was in kind of tough comps this time last year. But given the experience we had in Brand Addition, through the second half of '23. Then now feels like a really sensible position to go to end up and we feel about that revenues are stabilizing, made great progress in Brand Addition on margins. So they've moved forward from 33% this time last year, we're now at 35%. And again, as Chris just said, some of the largest companies in the world choosing to buy from and stay with Brand Addition and recognizing the value in the services that, that business provides. We pointed on this slide to our disciplined cost management. So we know that life is tough and revenue is uncertain. But what we're doing to protect ourselves against that is really managing that gross profit margins well and moving those forward, controlling our costs, and that means that we can kind of -- we can deliver the profitability that we are doing. And below EBITDA, there's a couple of things to point out. So in the first half, there's an accelerated depreciation charge on some of the acquired intangible software. So that's a one-off that won't be repeated and then go through our share-based payments line. There's a credit there because we don't believe that we will be the market performance conditions of the '22 and '23 and LTIPs and therefore, that we've reflected in these numbers. Balance sheet, kind of really high-quality working capital. When you look at the balance sheet, we've got some of the intangible assets, which are the investments that we've made into the product at the Facilisgroup and some of the historic goodwill. And then below that, it's really all working capital, and that's all Brand Addition. And so again, think of those blue-chip organizations that Brand Addition works with, high-quality working capital, it all follows a wealth from past. We kind of go through that working capital cycle now, but those assets translate really efficiently to cash. Cash flow, so the movement in working capital is consistent with where it was last year. We had -- and as we said, well from the path of Brand Addition, and we are through that peak of working capital investment now. And so we can -- that will start to kind of come back as we move through towards the year-end. Capital expenditure, as we signaled, is coming down, and we expect that to continue. And then below our operating cash flow, you can see the increases in both dividends that we made. So that's got a 100% increase this year versus last year and the impact of the share buyback program that we started in May. And here, what we're kind of trying to share is our thoughts around kind of how we're going to use that cash. So the left hand side is business as usual, really consistent with what we've been saying historically. So we've got a sensible level of cash on the balance sheet and our balance sheet is strong, but Brand Addition that requires working capital for growth. And so there will always be some investment in working capital, but that is proportionate to sales. And then the businesses do require some ongoing CapEx and in Facilisgroup, we've signaled that they want to acquire and our flagship products Syncore and then Brand Addition, they were same, they need around GBP 2.5 million ongoing investment in the infrastructure of that business. The right-hand side of this chart is really what are the choices around the cash that the businesses generate. And so we have been investing in new product development in Facilis. And we can see that, that's kind of -- that peaked in '23. It's come down in '24 and will come down further in '25. So that's more cash into the group. And then we have our choices of what we do with that incremental cash. And so as I've said a couple of times now, we increased the dividend in '24. We expect that, that will -- that trend will continue. And then, we have all the choices around what we're doing with that cash. And the thing we signaled earlier this year that we were going to start the share buyback program, which we set up to GBP 5 million and again, we'll continue to assess that as we complete through the cycle and get through next year.

Great. Thanks, Claire. So diving through the businesses now. So this is Facilisgroup and the chart on the bottom right-hand side there sort of explains how the industry is pulled together. So that sort of $25 billion of spend is created on the right by those brands who sort of want to engage with their stakeholders, is actually sort of supplied by -- on the left-hand side by suppliers or manufacturers and in the middle is created the distributors, which leads the two. And so Facilisgroup technology really sort of helps the friction and the smoothness of orders, travel between the suppliers and the distributors. So the two circles on -- on the left-hand side, Facilis' technology is bought by the distributor helps them work with the supplier to deliver to the brand and the positioning that we have. So taking through quite a busy slide, but I won't go through it in too much detail. But on the left-hand side here, the industry made it nice and simple to take it sort of splits the $24 billion in North America into three parts. The top of that, the top $8 billion is really kind of top 100. And generally, we don't sort of interact in that at the moment in terms of our software or we have one or two customers in there. So we really focus on that mid section, 1,600 entrepreneurs, SMEs, average sales of the business, about $5 million. And that's where we provide this order workflow system, Syncore into those businesses. And that is the majority of our revenues at the moment. And what we're looking to do is attract organizations into there to drive and move forward the GMV that goes through into our system. What we're providing is product search, CRM and a disciplined order workflow that helps those businesses and those entrepreneurs within their organizations. At the moment, we've got around about 240 customers or partners as we call them, and average around $6 million, and we think there's an estimated market out there for about 1,600. The new product that Claire has talked about and what we invested in, called Orders and Stores. On the Orders, it's looking to get that bottom 1/3 of $8 billion, where there's a really long tail of small organizations. And if we can take our understanding of the supply base, the technology and translate that into that small long tail, we think we can kind of really help that group of distributors engage better with the supplier. And if we can do that, we believe we can kind of grab more market share and increase out TAT there. And on the right-hand side in the middle is our Stores product, which is an e-commerce platform. And if we can kind of -- what we'd like to do is offer an e-commerce platform to our existing customers and potentially orders customers as well. They're already paying for technology through other people to actually to take that service, we believe we can kind of round out our offering by providing an e-commerce platform as well. And the idea of our middle section is to take us to the right and is to drive the GMV that goes around tech and then providing great services, increase the attach rate upon that GMV, which will be able to be drive income. So that really sets out the industry, how the distributor split, where our technology is tracked, pointed towards within that industry and how we're measuring success in terms of driving GMV and the attach rate, takes us to drive income. In terms of the strength of statistics that pulls off, these are the key metrics that come out of it. So looking across the top, revenue has been flat year-on-year, but I feel, as said, a pretty good performance. And then profitability is slightly up. But what it shows is that over a cycle, and since we listed really, I think, just over 4 years ago -- it was 4.5 years ago, we've had a CAGR of 15%, which we think is a definite number that we should be aiming for and really high EBITDA margins of 47%. That's driven principally by three things: the number of partners that we have, the GMV that goes through the system and the amount that our preferred -- that we can push to our preferred suppliers and that all end points to driving our income through the business. So moving part numbers forward, which helps GMV then kicks on to preferred spend. Those three things moving forward, as our income move forward as well. In terms of one of our statistics in terms of partner numbers, we split this. So this kind of from the left to the right is the full movement in the year-to-date. We split it into two to the chart on the left-hand side, we shared when we did our full year results, we shared that in March. And the graph on the right is the update since then. And really important to pull out that the partner -- we are getting a little bit more involved in this business is actually trying to make sure that new customers that are attracting are the right quality, the right signs and when they do that, they stay with us for a long period of time, they grow their businesses with us, which it means to grow that income with them. We do have businesses leave, but those middle two sections where you see the numbers coming down are actually some of those business being acquired and therefore, we could take a number of -- in terms of number of partners. But if they're acquired by a fellow partner, that GMV actually does stay within the group. And then the attrition -- the real attrition is on the right-hand side of each of those charts. And so there's just been 5, which has been true attrition through the year. So what that means is 98% retention rate, which I think is kind of pursuing the highest levels of retention rate, which demonstrates our customers value what we do and they're with us for the long term. And again, I won't go through this in a lot of detail, but it's really important I think. This is my year really reflected down here. So what we want to do to drive growth and drive income is those point one to four. Support our existing partners to grow, bring new partners into the organization, push through their spend with preferred suppliers and then what else can we do to grow our TAM to grow spend from our existing customers is bringing new technology. And I've really spent a lot of time over the last 12 months, making sure we've got each of those in a very good place. So in the statements that we made today, we talked about really driving some operational changes and actions. And that's what those kind of points are on the bottom there is to say we've changed some leadership. We've added some new people into the organization, new expertise, and now I think we're on -- we could grow sensibly and pretty well. But now I think with the addition of the team, the focus that we have on our kind of bringing new technology to market, looking after our customers and bringing the right new customers in. I think we've got a super base to grow again. [indiscernible] Claire to Brand Addition.

Okay. So Brand Addition, just to recap, it works with some of the largest companies in the world on a global basis and under contract subproduct. Yes, there's similar charts to what we just shared, on Facilis. And so again, the top half is the P&L sensible position on revenue, and we really can't feel like that's stabilized as we move through in the first half, great performance on gross margin. You can see that that's moving forward and then our EBITDA is slightly ahead of where we were this time last year as a result of that movement, that margin and the cost control that's been in place. Client sector, the revenue by sector, again, these should be vary from charts, that was well known. So nice distribution across all sectors. We had fairly similar proportions to where we were this time this year, and a benefit of some resilience into the Brand Addition business. And again, that revenue by destination and geographical spread that we've already touched on Brand Addition here in North America, Europe and then Asia. And so here, just trying to kind of capture our experience in the first half versus the experience for the full year of '23. So that really looking on the charts in the middle -- middle of this slide. As you can see at the bottom, last year, what was really challenging for us with those large swings on technology and consumer, and that's what really impacted the second half. The chart at the top is showing kind of our experience today, the first half of this year, and also that's a much more normalized level of movement and kind of, I think we said last year, we see our consumer experience being flat with prior year, and that's kind of -- that's how we see life right as we sit here today. I think that's kind of where we feel will come out. You can see with all the technology will start to increase versus last year and that is happening. And then we've just got some normal ins and outs around the rest of our sector. So hopefully, helps demonstrate the kind of the large swings in revenue that we experienced last year, can have really slow down. And again amazing client retention. [ Moves ] and client retention and that rate growth on market. So the progress in '24 for Brand Addition is, as I've just said, excellent client retention and kind of working hard on growing the business through taking our existing clients into new geographies where we have those opportunities with new clients. And so Brand Addition is kind of the level of activity that we're seeing on tenders, similar with that we have in prior years, but we are pointing to the fact that we feel that the final decision making is probably slightly slower than we've seen historically. We've appointed a Global Marketing Director to kind of really help improve the way the Brand Addition goes to market and to push further that new client acquisition and the [indiscernible] 25th time I've been talking, but pointing them again to the gross margin management and the improvements that the team made there which has been fantastic.

Thanks, Claire. And so, ESG is always important to us. Equally, it's important to send our own tone of voice. We do actually what makes a difference not what ticks a box and person who leads this for us walks across the threshold of our business every day, just thinking about ESG, making sure the businesses are operating in a way that adds value through ESG and does the right things for our stakeholders as a whole. It's a nice thing to be with him if you want to sort of go through that QR code. An example of some of the stuff we do. This is for Facilisgroup, a technology company, absolutely, but a big part of it as well is actually building a community and that's between our suppliers, our team and our partners, our customers. And here are some of three examples of what goes on. And so, I'll just kind of touch on Facilis technology, but it's technology and because as well as the technology provides its customers also provide some great supply chain benefits, but it also connects the partners, the suppliers and the team through a community to learn to educate, to get better and so it is more than technology. It is technology and supporting your business growth. And that's a really important part of the business that shouldn't be underestimate. As so that kind of really brings us in. So in terms of outlook, we still were in line with market expectations. Got a great cash position, and we're really kind of proud to welcome on to the business today and looking forward to working with. And then, that really kind of brings us to the end. I hope there's these five points on here, over in the last 20 minutes, you can sort of look at those that recognize from what we've talked about, that they're all kind of really attractive and positive things to be invested into Pebble Group. And please raise your hand if there are any questions, and Claire and I would be delighted to answer anything. Okay. So I think, Lucy, if I can hand it to you, if there are any questions out there, and we'll take those. And for mic...

[Operator Instructions] Fiona Orford-Williams.

First, on -- two questions on Facilisgroup really. I mean you talked about improving the quality of the customer pool. Has that actually changed what a good partner looks like to you and how you recruit them? And in terms of the -- driving the preferred spend has much changed in the supplier pool. And my third question, because it's compulsory to have three, is on Brand Addition? And just how far you think you can push that gross margin?

In terms of the partner profile, then we have changed that slightly. And for good reasons, so say I've got a lot more involved in the last 12 months. And the technology works best on partners who are of a certain size of wish to grow. And I think the business has taking its eye off those things and become obsessed with a number as opposed to actually what's behind that number. So there's a threshold that has to be crossed that business that we recruited as a partner has to be over $2 million in revenues. And so what it is, when it's that size, it will have the discipline and approach that you need to run a business our size that means the technology is useful to you. And also you can afford the technology when you have a business of that size. I think we have started chasing numbers and a little bit lower and what happens there is you've just seen come out the other side, you worked really hard at winning it. You get it over line and implement it and then you lose it at the other side is actually not big enough. So we have absolutely changed. But that doesn't change our addressable market. It just means kind of when we win those, I'm hoping the attrition will be even less. In terms of pushing through preferred, that's a really important thing. When we do that, the partner will receive a rebate in terms of benefits to them, and we received some income against that as well. And so lots of things going is from running specialty sort of top executive events within our supplier businesses. We'll run incentives on a sort of monthly basis to try and push spend through there and actually incentivize the salespeople of our partners. And -- and thirdly, kind of host in sort of large events, you saw kind of some images there of Facilis. We've held two this year, we held two every year. We have one in our [ land ] for the beginning of the year, one in Toronto in July, and they're aimed at bringing together those partners and those preferred suppliers to build relationships, to understand what they can offer each other. And the growth in the preferred spend hasn't been a growth in the number of partners that have been part of it. It's growing more with existing partners and with existing suppliers, and that's what we're trying to do. And do you want to kind of talk about the gross margin?

Yes. Yes. So I think, Fiona, we would always point towards 33% has been [ same ] average. We have moved out. So last year, we would have been saying 30%. We moved that to 33% at the year-end. And I would kind of -- I would stick with that number. I think, we will obviously kind of try to maximize that and make out the best number it can be, but we're working with some of the largest companies in the world that got kind of sophisticated purchasing teams. And so, we can't -- [ we're not apple, ] we have to price sensibly. But obviously, we'll kind of -- we'll try to make out the best we can, but I would point you to 33% and point the internal teams at 35%. Thank you.

[ Joe Brent. ] I'll allow your mic now.

I want to go with three questions as well, if that's okay, but maybe just take one at a time for all of our memory's sake. First of all, can you just talk us through the Facilis attach rate in the first half?

Yes. And the attach rates best looked at over the year actually because we do have a GMV sort of back-end weighted and income is kind of fairly consistent, although it does come slightly. So the attach rate is really important to us in order to -- there's two things we're trying to do, drive GMV through and obviously on the same attach rate now, still grow income. And secondly, what else can we provide to those distributors as when they're putting GMV through a weaker kind of provide them with new services to actually increase income. So GMV sort of the attach rate moves primarily through adding more from our preferred suppliers. So if our -- we can increase that 50%, 53% that go through preferred, that will increase our attach rate. So that's a very important aspect for us. But also moving into those e-commerce platform if we can sell them more technology, that attach rate will move again. So we're trying to sort of, if GMV time attach rate equals income we are trying to move both of those before the equal sign to move us forward. So GMV through growing existing and winning new customers and attach rate through pushing through preferred and selling more a different technology to those same customers.

Excellent. And secondly, just on the Syncore partners. I mean, you clearly are improving the quality of those partners. It did fall in the first half. Can you give some indication of where those partners numbers will go, although I appreciate it's not just a game of quantity, it's quality as well.

Yes, it takes a bit of both. And I think the quality of them comes through, you see the GMV has grown. So that number might have kind of flexed down. That's been something that's been very important for us to explain that it is about moving -- having a good quality apartment that stays with us for a long time and moving the GMV forward. So you all notice, although there has been a slight dip and then that's why we sort of moved it between the two, because what we shared in March was quite a few have been purchased, which we can't do a lot about. But so bringing you up to date with that, we split it out to show you that there has been an increase in the rate of acquisition of good new partners and also sort of reduce it in the rate of those that exit. So obviously, we want that number to go forward in terms of the year-end and where we get to. I do think we are -- again, I'll kind of put myself on the hook here. But I do think we are getting towards the end of those small ones that will probably exit, because they don't fit. And so I hope if we can continue to grow in terms of adding and then if the attrition becomes even less, I think that's a good thing. The numbers move forward. I wouldn't get too hooked up. It's very important we kind of split out those businesses that have been acquired. We'd like them to be acquired within the group because we keep the GMV. But if they're selling their organization, sometimes it's out of our hands. So that's why we split it out that way. Obviously, we want the numbers to move forward as quickly as possible. But it's important that, that moves the GMV forward and the average here kind of [ mostly ] partners are. Hope I've answered that, okay, Joe.

The third one I just had was about the Brand Additions, sort of composition by [indiscernible] clearly more stable than it has been recently. But I noticed that beauty is down quite a lot. Is there anything specific going on there?

And I think that's really just a timing difference, Joe. But we've also said on the slide that when we get to August, that revenues are in line. And so that would be specifically some of our consumer -- those consumer orders that last year were delivered before the half year and this year have slipped into the second half. So you'll see that kind of writing itself as we get to the year-end.

Anybody else have the question. Okay. Will? Okay. Go ahead and unmute your mic. You can ahead now.

Just three for me, please. Firstly, just on sort of freight rates, obviously, they've been ticking up and sort of what impact, because that potentially have or can you mitigate that against the second half? And then the second one is just in terms of the level of investment we should be sort of forecasting for next year in terms of CapEx, given commercial on Orders or Stores. And Orders are now sort of through the heavy investment price.

Okay. Thanks, Will. So in terms of the freight rates, that's pretty much built into the margins that you see there. So we aren't expecting a sort of materially different change in the second half margin to the first. As Claire talked about the 33% being our long-term average, but really nicely said, our internal kind of number is to keep out the same. So I do feel as though we've kind of touching all it would got through that. I'm not expecting a big change in our gross margin due to freight rates. We have managed that extremely carefully. It's a very experienced team to do that. And I sat here expecting the gross margin to be within the same sort of parameters it is today. And then in terms of investments into the new products, it has absolutely peaked. That number is coming down. We've talked about being around 20% of our total revenue on a medium-term basis and sort of in Facilisgroup, sorry. So that's that new product. So in terms of what we spent on our Orders and Stores platform peaks in '23 coming down in '24 and will again in 2025. And so what we are pointing towards is that the medium-term range for facilities will be 20% of its revenues will go into a capital expenditure. And right now, we're kind -- we don't change that. But exactly how does that happen in '25 or '26, I think we'll leave open for now. We do have a little bit of guidance just for '24 at the moment, I think, is in the back of...

I think, well, so there's, typically said, on that slide back GBP 2.5 million for Brand Addition, the last days the same and then bring the silos down over the kind of next couple of years to [ 20%. ] So it's a [ 13%, ] I suppose I'm saying [ 25% ] the next year or something like that and then bring further -- down further as we move out.

Hello, anymore questions? Yes, [ Paul. ] I'll unmute, allow your mic now. Go ahead.

I'm just wondering if you could help me with a bit more color on current trading really, because the language in the report points to recovering well. But does your outlook imply a short-term fade of that recovery in recent months?

No, I don't think so. I think, it's -- we can have -- we've got a great sort of view of Facilisgroup. So that's kind of less sort of -- that's more certain for us. In terms of Brand Addition, what we are saying is those large corporates holding budgets pretty tightly right now, but customer retention remains excellent. So all the activity that we are seeing and where the gross margins are, how we're managing the cost, gives us the ability to say that we are in line with the full year expectations. So I don't -- I think we're kind of go in. We're, I suppose, cautiously positive about where we stand. We're not kind of trying to say, shooting the lights out here, but equally, we are saying tradings robust.

No, I think we're good, Chris. Should I hand back to you for some closing remarks.

Yes, we can do that. Thanks, Lucy. Well, look, thanks, everybody, for your interest. So that's been useful, say, the sort of announcement and the presentation is on the website at pebblegroup.com. And we're not hard to find if you need anything else. But thank you very much for your time this morning, and we'll hear if you need us. Thanks very much. Bye-bye.