The Platform Group SE & Co. KGaA (TPG0) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

We are delighted to welcome the CEO, Dr. Dominik Benner; and Mrs. Nathalie Richert, who will guide us through the presentation followed by a Q&A session. After the presentation, we will move on to the Q&A session in which you will be allowed to place your questions directly to the management. We're looking forward to the presentation. And with that said, I'm handing over to you, Ms. Richert.

Hello, everybody and welcome to our strategy and update call of TPG. Before we begin, let me briefly introduce our company. Our company is led by an experienced 8-member C-level team and 4 -- 3-member Supervisory Board. TPG is a leading software and platform company. We have a family business, and we are now in the fifth generation. Today, when we move on to the next slide. We operate platform businesses around 26 industries with a network than more than 16 partners saving both B2B and B2C, and our -- like you see on the slide, we have now 5 different segments. We are located in 19 locations across Europe, and our headquarter is in. With that short introduction, I want to hand over to our CEO, Dr. Dominik Benner, who will give now us the update of the TPG.

Yes. Thank you very much, Nathalie. And also a warm welcome from my side. We would like to give you a short overview on the current developments within the last month and also an outlook on the next month and the upcoming months until the end of the year. So first of all, we want to show and share some developments of the Q1 -- of the second quarter of this year. So overall, when we look on our more than 30 platforms, we see that the customer confidence is quite positive. To be honest, we were a little bit critical after the war in Iran and the Middle East. And -- but overall, we saw that there was a decline in confidence, but now it was rising again. And so we are quite optimistic to see a good development here in the second quarter. We also see a higher B2B order volume. That means our machine business and the machine sector is performing well, and we see increasing numbers here. What we see difficult is the market environment in the furniture sector. So as you might know, the furniture sector is not performing very well overall in Europe. It was booming in the COVID times and now it's increasing. So this is kind of a difficult market. And we also see that the increasing cost for logistics and transportation have an effect, of course, on our P&L, but I think we have a lot of strategies to mitigate this risk and also to make decisions which protect us a little bit on this cost effect. What we also see is that we have good conditions and excellent conditions in the M&A sector. That means we can buy additional companies for very fair values. And I think we can see a lot of upcoming deals also this year, but we will also give you an update on this on the next slides. And very important to mention our 5 segments, as Nathalie already mentioned, they continue to grow. So we have a number of partners, which is growing, and we also expect them growing on the full year basis. So we see no decline here, and we are very optimistic to achieve our guidance on these numbers. When we go on to the next slide, you see our latest development regarding Q1. So these are the figures which we have presented in the Q1 earnings call. And as you can see, we had a positive development regarding the net revenue and also regarding the EBITDA, the margin did not increase, as you know. So we saw a stable development or a little decreasing development on the EBITDA numbers. But overall, we were quite happy about the development. And we also see different cost driver effects, especially regarding the marketing and the gross margin. Let me now look on the financials, the nonfinancials. You see here the nonfinancial development compared to last year. So what we see here is also what we expect for the Q1 results. So we see currently a rising number of orders. And we also see that the number of active customers is increasing. And yes, so this is something which we expect to be continued for the second quarter. When we look on the number of employees, we do not see an increase here because we did not make many acquisitions this year. So this will be more or less a stable number, obviously, maybe also a decline here. Very important to mention is our proportion between the organic and the nonorganic growth. So overall, we had an organic growth rate, which was more than 71% in the first quarter. So we achieved the most growth from the organic side and not with M&A. And last year, it was a little bit different. So last year, we saw that we had 59% growth rate with organic, and it was 41% with nonorganic. So yes, overall, we expect to see the same tendency here also in the Q1 numbers. And we want to see a high number of partners and also a high number of products in our segments. Now we look on the M&A and finance update. I think this is a part where a lot of you from the audience side is looking at and our current development. So first of all, we would like to give you an update regarding our current M&A targets. As we always did in the last years, we show you some upcoming targets or some current targets where we are still working on. So first of all, we have a significant target in Belgium and Luxembourg. With this target, we signed a term sheet, so it's still confidential. And we finalized our due diligence, and it's a company in the retail sector. It has a lot of online and off-line activities. They have totally around 250, 260 people in that group. And from the current perspective, the SBA is being drafted, and we expect a potential signing by July and a potential closing by August to September this year. And so as far as we make in SBA here, and we'll proceed with the signing, we will give you directly an update on that. The next update is regarding AEP. As you might know, AEP is a pharma target, which we announced as an acquisition by this year. And we are very optimistic that we have a very good ongoing process here. That means we are still -- have an ongoing of the contractual CPs, as you might know, in every SBA, you have certain CPs. And I think we made good progress here, and we also expect a good forthcoming here for the next month. We did an amendment of the SBA with a seller and a buyer. So both sides agreed on an amendment here, and we signed this amendment this month. Also, we would like to give you here an update by July -- so we will give you hear more detailed information about the process and the potential closing of the deal. Very important is the final structure. So in the last months we negotiated and discussed a lot of different finance options. And now we have 2 financial options, which are finalized and which we can sign. So option 1 is an option where we can make a finance volume of EUR 80 million. It has a duration of 2 years plus an extension option, the lenders International Finance Group based in U.S. and U.K. and it will be completely in line with our bond prospectus and the bond restrictions regarding secured and nonsecured assets, and also the purposes for M&A and refinance. And the execution, if we will do that, would be by July. The same is what you can see on the right side on option 2. This is another company, it's another lender. It's also International Finance Group. It has a longer duration. It has a high amount, and we also have the offer here to sign this contract. So as you can see here on the slide, you see that we want to make a decision until tomorrow. So we expect a signing of this finance structure until tomorrow and would like to execute it after that. Next thing is about our reduction of debt leverage. In the previous call and the previous announcement, we mentioned that we want to reduce our debt leverage over the time. As you can see, we did it also in the last years. So in 2023, we had a debt leverage of 2.7 and which is, of course, absolutely acceptable level. And we had seen this decline over time. And currently, in the Q1 quarter, we had a 2.0 debt leverage, and we expect a decline also for the next year. And this year, we want to achieve our debt leverage of 2.0. And very important is that the new credit facility, if you would make it and use it for M&A purpose, it will not increase our debt leverage, so we will remain on the same level that means if we make M&A acquisition and use the proceeds from that, we have to make sure that the EBITDA, which is coming from the acquired targets is in line with our debt leverage strategy and that we can use it for that. So this is important to understand that we make -- when we make new leverage, it has to be in line with our reduction strategy. Additionally, we also mentioned in our last announcement that we make a bond buyback program. And we see that this is a quite attractive volume where we can start with. So currently, we start with EUR 5 million for the next month. And we decided to start with 6-month period. Maybe we will start another potential increase of the volume, and we will start this program by July. And I think this is also a good strategy to make our debt strategy for this year to reduce our debt level and also to start making this buyback program of our current bond structure. On the next slide, you see our latest financial figures from end of 2025. So you've seen the bank liabilities, they were EUR 33 million for the noncurrent liabilities. And for the current liabilities, we had EUR 26 million at EUR 26 million. And we think from the current perspective, regarding the current ones, we expect more or less the same level until the end of this year and from the long-term liabilities with our banks, we expect a decrease, which is completely in line with our debt reduction strategy. Also regarding the M&A perspective or we think that we can make less deals and more significant deals because in the last year, we had a lot of deals, we had, I think, 11 signings, and we think that this is maybe too much for our organization, we should focus much more on relevant but significant targets. And so for this year, we expect 5 to 6 signings totally, not more and 1 or 2 divestments of existing potential small subsidiaries in our group. What is also important to mention is that we make a very strong AI approach, and this is a real cost-cutting program. And this is also an efficiency program. That means when we implement AI in much more process in our group, we can reduce our workforce in some departments and can use them for better jobs and for better job descriptions and also we can increase our efficiency by several times. So just to mention our coding structure, we can use Claude and other AI tools and can dramatically increase our efficiency and our speed in coding new software and new front end. And so this has really a big impact. And if you would have asked me 2 years ago, we did not expect that, to be honest, but now it has a tremendous impact here in our strategy, and we use it definitely also to reduce cost structures in our group. When we look on the guidance, you can see it here. We have the same guidance, so we confirm it also in this call that we expect total revenue of EUR 1 billion for this year and an adjusted EBITDA of EUR 70 million to EUR 80 million. And as you can also see, the number of partners will increase and the leverage has a broad range here, but we expect to achieve it here with around 2.0. And also, you can see the guidance, including AEP on a pro forma basis, these are the figures which we already presented to you. So this is an update from my side, and I hope we gave you some more insight perspective regarding our debt reduction strategy and also about our current M&A targets. And also, Nathalie give you a short brief update where you can meet us in the next months. All right. So I think we can start with the M&A -- with the Q&A.

Perfect. Yes. Thank you very much for your presentation and the dive into your numbers. Ladies and gentlemen, it's your turn now. [Operator Instructions] We have already received, I think, 4, 5, 6, yes.

So there's a question regarding share dilution expected for this year and next upcoming periods? So we have actually now a forecast on that. As you know, we usually make small share capital increases when we have a seller and when we buy a company and include the seller into our group and gives them some shares, and sometimes, yes, we do this capital increases, but we have no goal overall, which we can communicate here. Next question. Why doesn't EBITDA and profitability numbers shown in the company cash on the balance sheet? This is very simple to be answered. Yes, we are a profitable group. But when you look on our cash flow statement, you see that we invest our money. That means every year, we buy new companies, and we invest in software. And if you go to our cash flow statement, you see that we invest a lot of money in new M&A activity, usually all the amounts which we earned in our operational profit business, that's what we invested into new targets. Next question from Neil. The significant fall in the share price is driven by call-offs by the bond price, the bond price has fallen. Do you want to make more buyback and more aggressively? Well, definitely, this could be an option. What you should consider is that we are make a safe harbor program. Safe harbor program means that you mandate a bank here, for example, in Germany. And every day, they can acquire 25% of the daily trading volume. And to be honest, the liquidity in the bond is very low. So it's not so easy to just increase the number of bond buyback because the trading volume is very low in our bond. And so we have no experience there, to be honest. So we initiated that. It will start by July. And I think after 1 month, we can give you a feedback on how much we purchased from our bond and how much liquidity was in the bond. And I think from the current perspective, as we did not start the program now, we'll start it by July, we can give you a profound answer by end of July. Next question was about the manager magazin. Just what is our comment on that. Very simple. We make a refusal, and we published it online. You can click on a corporate of The Platform Group. And you can also see our refusals here regarding the latest report from them. Next thing is about will you make a separate announcement for signing a new finance structure? Yes. So if we sign a contract and make a final structure, as we mentioned here in our call with Option 1 or 2, we have to make an announcement. So we have to communicate that immediately. And yes, that's what we have to do. Next question is about the elaboration of the new regarding loan cancellations by banks. What is the liquidity of the TPG at the moment? So very simple to answer, the liquidity is going to be published in the quarter and also in the half year report. And so we have communicated it in the Q1 results, and we will also communicate it in the half year results. Next question, what is the expected effect of M&A and M&A divestments in 2026 on cash flow and net debt? So yes, I mean we are just by June this year. So I cannot communicate what is our total effect on divestments this year. So we have no forecast on that. When we make a divestment -- last year, we did 3 very small divestments. So we had an effect on that, but not on a large number because these are very small companies, which we sold. And this year, we did not make a decision. So when we make a decision, we will immediately communicate that and give you an update on that. Did I understand correctly that the plan for the bond buyback is EUR 5 million for the next month, and potentially more after that? No, we communicated that we will make a bond buyback program starting by July. We communicated that we will start with 6 months period. And if we can do more, and we can always increase this program. So we will have to see how the reaction is and how the development of the liquidity is at the bond. So we have no forecast for that. Our next question is about the 2 options regarding the finance structure. First, what is driving the range? And is it also fund for M&A firepower. So yes, so definitely, we have to use it. The use of proceeds are for M&A and refinance and the focus is definitely M&A. So when we make a refinance structure, we have to combine it with a new company or several new companies and the new companies will bring additional EBITDA and profits to our group. Otherwise, it would not make sense. We don't want to use debt and let it stand alone in our balance sheet because this would not bring us any positive effect. What about the closing of AEP deal? Will it be either Option 1 or 2? And the answer is, well, we will decide very soon as we mentioned it already, and we gave you already an update on the closing procedures. Next question. Could you expand on the cash balance specialty within subsidiaries? There have been reports on the. Well, in general, we always have a consolidated statement. So every company which I know so far has consolidated statements and over to you. Making reports on our subsidiaries. So currently, we have about 50 different subsidiaries, and it will not work that we make unconsolidated statements on there. Next question was already answered. Thank you, Dario, for that. Next question was already answered. It's about debt-to-equity swaps. And we -- yes, we made debt-to-equity swaps, but I don't know the exact number, so this is maybe something which you should ask Nathalie in the next round in another call. From Mr. Puskar, market expects almost bankers of TPG, how stable is your financial solution or situation? Well, I mean we have an audit report from 2025, and we give you also this update call here to give you more confidence about our situation. and we do not comment any rumors in the market. So basically, what we do is that we present our numbers. We give you, I think, a very good perspective on our current development and what is the planning here for the next months. And as you can see, when we make a bond buyback program, we do not make it for fun or just to make a signal. We think that we can make a buyback for very reasonable prices, and this has to be -- to be honest, this is a good margin for us if we can do that. So that is the reason why we do such a bond buyback program for bonds. Then there's another question regarding the 2 options for finance. And the question is about the situation in line with bond restrictions. It is not substantiated. Yes. Thank you for this question. So generally, in our bond perspective, we have different things about baskets, about restrictions about securitization levels and so on. And therefore, we have to make sure that the 2 options regarding the finance facilities have to be met with these requirements and does not lead to any whatever, cross the fate whatever. So we have to make sure that this works. And yes, our lawyers confirmed it. So we are quite positive to do that. Next question is about the closing of? It is already closed. So I'm wondering on this question, is this has closed this company, this deal. And there's a specific question regarding different banks. So to answer that in a general way, we do not give comments on different banks or bank relations. So please respect that we don't make detailed discussion on bank contracts because they are confidential and I think it's not in the interest that we discuss here in a public call here. Why do you buy margin-dilutive companies like AEP? Yes. Thank you, Marcus. That is the right question, to be honest. And yes, AEP has low margins. So margins are around 2%, and definitely, they would dilute our total group with lower margins. But there are 2 perspectives on that. The one perspective is that we by a company with lower margins. But on the other side, the question is what is the total number. And in my life, I always calculate with total numbers and not only with percentage, to be honest. And we think that this is a good deal. We think that AEP is a great company, and that we can work with that even if the margin in percentage is low. But on a total level, it is quite respectable and I think they make a good job there. Given the share price wouldn't share buyback be the best use for shareholders compared to more M&A? The problem is that we cannot make a share buyback. This is not possible because the share buyback is not allowed according to our bond prospectus. So we cannot make share buyback because it's not allowed according to our bond. So our bond goes until 2028. And then after being repaid, we can do that, then it's possible but not before. And of course, I agree with your perspective. We would think the same. That is quite attractive to do that, but it's not allowed for us. And there's a question regarding the tax liabilities. Yes, we already confirmed it on our written statement that TPG has not these tax liabilities. We already confirmed it in the written statement. EUR 5 million buyback of bonds is good, but that amount would buy back around 20% of current equity with the share price, wouldn't it be better or should be better to make buyback of shares? Yes, that's what we already answered. We will do that, but we are not allowed to do it right now. It's not possible until 2028. Next question is about the share price development. Are there any margin calls ongoing concerning Benner Group shares? Or what is your explanation? To be honest, I don't know what that means to me because we -- there's no Benner group, and there's not a listener group. So I don't know exactly what is meant with that. Next question. Hello, your 28 bond trades near EUR 0.55. Buyback, buying it back retires EUR 100 of debt for EUR 45 and this is a good decision. Why raise new debt for acquisitions instead of returning your own bond? Yes. So basically, we do both. So our decision what we do in a group is not only focusing on financials, it is only also focusing on operational and strategic things. And we would never decide to just make 2 years just paying down debt and nothing else in our business. So we always have to find a balance between our financials. Where we have a clear debt reduction strategy since this year and also to have some improvements in our operations and strategy. And so we always have to find a balance between these 2 things. So yes, I'm very optimistic that we have a good balance there between the 2 strategies and that we will make a good decision on that. Given all the planned investments, has a final decision being made to secure financing without diluting shareholder stakes? Well, in general, yes, we want to make a deleverage strategy. And we got the feedback in the last 6 months that deleveraging and reducing interest cost is quite important for our shareholders, and we also seen that the interest rate was going up in the last 6 months because of the war and because of the economic uncertainties. And so yes, we also agree that reducing debt and reducing interest costs is quite important for shareholders and also for our group. And therefore, yes, we agree with you. And -- but I think we always have to make a balance between operational investments and, for example, buying back of our bonds. There was another comment on magazin, which we already made a statement on that. That is a good question. As a private stock investor, what's your strategy to let investor profit from Strategy 2030 dividends question mark, buyback question mark, anything else question mark. Well, yes, you are right, we communicated the strategy 2030, and we gave an update on that in the last year, and we want to achieve these numbers. Did we communicate dividend so far? No. So we did not communicate, guide or do anything about dividend so far. If we would do that, we will communicate that to you. But before 2028, this is not possible. And of course, the buyback is a very good decision. It doesn't matter for bonds or for shares, both is possible for us. But the bond can be immediately done this year and next year and shares only from 2028 on. And yes, from my personal perspective, I think this is a very good idea to do that. Next question is about the market capitalization that is decreasing over the last few months. Given the situation, are you planning to implement specific measures to reassure current and future shareholders. Well, the question is, what kind of specific measures do you think about that? For example, you mentioned like a shareholder-friendly initiatives, such a dividend payment or other capital allocation strategies to support the stock. Yes, as I already mentioned, we cannot do share buyback programs, it's not possible. And we cannot make dividends. It's not possible. But yes, you are right. I think we started already with the bond buyback program, and this is a very good start. And yes, we also want to combine it with operation strategies to increase our numbers and to bring with more confidence in the market. There's the next question about the bond price development. So the question is about is the bond price affecting the bank willingness to lend to TPG or to other acquisitions of TPG? No, there is no relation between the bond and the bank. Next question. How high in percentage do you think the risk that big AEP deal -- no, it disappeared will not happen, I think. Well, I think we are quite optimistic to go on with the ECPs and the SBA. And so we do our best to make a good job there and to complete this deal. Next question is about bond holders are asked for any amendment or restructuring question mark, haircut, maturity and so on? No, absolutely not. So we do nothing like that. And we want to buy back our own bonds. From a reporting perspective, could it be possible to report in addition to the adjusted EBITDA and adjusted net income figure in order to show even better the true profitability of TPG? Yes. I think this is a very good idea. And it is not very difficult. So all our analysts and bank analysts and research partners do that, will they take our net profit and adjusted by the PPA effects and other adjustments. So you have these 2 numbers in every of our reports, and you can just directly subtract it. And yes, I think it would be a good, but you cannot officially take it to the P&L statement. You have to make it separately besides the P&L statement for legal reasons. All right. There are some questions regarding different subsidiaries. There's a question, do we plan to implement and set up an independent audit committee? I don't know exactly on which level you asked me that, but I would expect this is a question for the Supervisory Board, not for the Board. And maybe this is a good idea that we can implement such a level on the advisory board, but it's not my decision. I can only ask the Head of the Advisory Board, Mr. Schutze, for that. Next question. Looking at your owner earnings after all, as the capital expenditures is the organic free cash flow strong enough to pay down this debt without relying on bank refinancing? Yes, I think we have a good cash flow situation and we can work with that. And yes, I think this is a very good path to reduce our debt structure definitely. Otherwise, we would not go this path to buyback bond because we think it's a good margin. Could you please explain the new debt structure pro forma for the AEP acquisition? How much debt will be added to the balance sheet versus the EUR 20 million to EUR 30 million guided annual adjusted EBITDA for AEP? Well, let's take the example. So if you have EUR 30 million of EBITDA in this case and you have a debt structure of EUR 80 million, and then you have directly this 2.2% impact in the leverage. So when you buy a company with 60, for example, or make an EUR 80 million structure here, and you have EBITDA of EUR 30 million you have the structure of 2-point something. And in combined case, we expect a total debt leverage of 2.0 by end of this year with or without this acquisition. Regarding cash management, there's another question to your plan to adapt more conservative or safer long-term approach similar to the strategy and the debt management in order to build up higher cash reserves. Yes, I think this is also a good opportunity to do that definitely. In the last 6 years, we had a very strong investment approach and acquired a lot of companies. And as you can already see in our latest developments for this year, we reduced the number of M&A activities, and we also increased our repayment of debt. And so when we combine that, make less M&A, have higher cash reserves and also pay back loans. I think this is a very good combined strategy. So I think we are a little bit over time now. So maybe we take the last round for the next 3 to 4 questions. And then I think we can also offer a follow-up maybe for in July. That's all the remaining questions on next upcoming questions can be answered in July. So let's focus on the last questions. What do you say about the share price, if your numbers are right, you have a PE ratio of less than 1 or 0.5. Why don't you buy back the whole company and go private? Well, we are stocked as a company. So we are stock listed. And so we have not a private buyback program here. Otherwise, we would have to communicate that.

Just. We actually have until 3:30. So there's plenty of time to answer more questions.

Okay. Great. I thought we have cut it at 03:15. Okay. Next question. Can you buy back bonds OTC? Maybe the volume could be much higher than via exchanges? Yes, yes and no. The problem is that according to all the recommendations from the stock exchange and the banks, you usually have to make the safe harbor program. And safe harbor program means you can usually make the daily volume and by 25% of the daily volume on the public markets. But yes, there are options to make a direct bond buyback. This is possible as long as there is no insider information ahead or something like that. But yes, it is possible. And we, I think, have 1 or 2 possibilities to do that. So when we make such a possibility, we will immediately communicate it. And yes, it can be done in special situations, and we think that we can have a solid background in accordance with our lawyers to do that. What is the number of free floating shares? I don't know exactly. So it is published on our corporate page. So please go on to the corporate page and then you see all the public numbers. When will the closing of AEP will be, and it's closing at risk? Well, no, we have a contract. And in the contract, we have several CPs. And I don't know if you already had such a maybe more complex SBA. It takes a lot of time to be honest to fulfill all the CPs and seller and buyer have to fulfill them. So this is quite a complex case. It's not an easy case with a company of 10 people and just call the owners, hey come on, let's like that. So it's a very complex case. And yes, I'm very optimistic from my side that we will go forward and go for the closing. Could you please summarize the equity structure? Does it contain certain goodwills? I don't understand this question, to be honest, because maybe you mean our balance sheet. So on the balance sheet, in our equity statement, you see how much equity you have. And usually, when we make acquisitions, our numbers for goodwill are not really high. So sometimes you make bad acquisitions. Sometimes you make goodwill acquisitions. But our total number of goodwill compared to our balance sheet is not very high. And this is, to be honest, a positive message to you that we do not see relevant or whatever kind of write-down necessaries because most of the companies which require have no goodwill on our balance sheet. And so any fair value test could have no impact on that. And this is something which is, I think, on a very good basis for having a conservative balance sheet basis. Since you change from AG to KGaA, investor confidence appears to have fallen significantly. How you have planned any changes regarding your communication strategy? And how do you want to communicate to your shareholders and other bondholders? Maybe not only you can give some updates what we currently do already and what we want to do in the next months.

Sure. We have different investor inactives in Europe, in Germany and in the U.S. Most of the time, we mountain. But we -- as you already know, we work together with different banks. And there our next presentation -- official presentation is in October, in Paris and the next will be in Frankfurt at the equity forum as well in Vienna at the family office forum. And always check our Investor Relations calendar. And as you might see, we have a new newsletter where you could register.

Okay. Next question, the equity market is pricing, your share extremely low compared to your earnings. Are you considering slowing down the growth? Well, actually, we do not force the growth. So I think we have growth numbers since 15 years. We never doubled our revenue within 1 year. So every year, we had increases of the revenues in the last 15 years, but not in a large number. So maybe there are 1 or 2 exceptions. So one exception was, for example, fashionette when we acquired them. So that had a huge impact on our revenue perspective and also regarding the potential AEP acquisition. This also has an impact. But all our other acquisitions, they were not so much changing our profits and our revenue. So I think, overall, we are quite very typically, to be honest, which is growing every year by some amount and tries to focus on this profitable growth also in the next years. Next question. How does the leadership give capital allocation decisions in the company to enhance the valuation of the company? Well, we have a ROCE figure and we have a return on equity figure. And so both figures are calculated with every investment we do. And if we see an investment which is not good and where we think, yes, well, this is maybe cheap. But in a long-term perspective, it has negative effects on our ROCE, for example, that we go below 18% or something. So we always try to find good M&A activities, which are supporting our loyalty strategy and make sure that we do not have a decline here. So yes, our management is involved in that, and they all have the same interest regarding that. Next question. There's a confidence issue regarding the TPG accounts. Can management offer a strong confidence signal to the public like hiring a new auditor? Yes. So of course, I'm absolutely open for that. For example, at the AGM, I cannot vote for an auditor. So it's not my decision because I'm the majority shareholder. I'm not allowed to go there. And of course, if the AGM makes another decision, of course, we will take another auditor until 2019 yes, 2019, we had KPMG until 2022. We had Ernst & Young as an auditor. So we also work with the Big 4. So it's not something strange to us. And yes, of course, it's the obligation of the AGM to decide on that. It's about the restart of investor confidence. I think we already answered these questions. Next question, given the TPG's EUR 20 million valuation, what is the benefit of remaining listed on the stock exchange. Well, as I already said, we are listed, and I think we also learned a lot from the listing to be honest. We see everyday good feedback. We include our investors in our perspective and decision-making. And we also see benefits on that. And yes, of course, our shares undervalued. I'm the majority shareholder. I never sold shares here, but my interest is that we have a long-term perspective here and that we see a long-term value creation. And I totally agree with you on that. Of course, we have to ask ourselves this question, but we have a clear statement for that, and we will remain with that. I don't understand the next question. Why don't you launch a public tender offer for the bonds that would not be subject to safe harbor rules? Yes, this would be possible. But actually, we made and initiated a bond, and the bond goes until 2028. And I think regarding to be fair with our bondholders, I think the first way is that we will just stay until 2028, pay back the bond. And if somebody wants to say before, we can buy it. I think this is the best way to do that. And if somebody wants to sell on lower levels, you can -- he or she can do that. And that's why we also initiated the program that we make a complete offer, a tender offer for all bondholders, I think this is not a good idea or maybe most of them would not react on that because you will never find a perfect price to make such a tender offer. Everybody would complain on that properly. What will you do to strengthen shareholder value? At current market cap for the acquisition seemed unbalance. What do you do think about using cash flow for paying a dividend? Yes, I think it's a good idea, but as you know, according to the bond, it's not allowed to pay dividends so far. From mid of 2028, we are allowed to pay dividends. Will you make announcement about AEP financing tomorrow? Yes, it could be. We did not make a decision so far. But if we would decide tomorrow, then we have to make a communication on that. From which moment, the AEP will push your business. it will not push our business, to be honest. AEP is a good company. They make a great job, and we combine it with 1 or 2 other subsidiaries of our group. But AEP will not push our company. It has a very strong focus on pharmacy delivery and solutions for the pharmacies. And so we make no cross-selling here, for example, if you mean or something like that. Next question. In response to the acquisition from manager magazin, you're right in your website that manages is strong on matters. Can this be true? Why is the attack you? What we already communicated our perspective on that. And in our call, we will not comment that anymore. Because for us, it's a little bit of ways of time to do that. We help our write statement. We have some legal actions regarding that. And this is, I think, everything what we can tell here, and I think you should always respect that. How big is the acquisition in Belgium? Well, we cannot communicate a financial number here right now because it's still confidential, but it is a significant target. And will it require a further bank facility? Probably not. We will pay it by cash. Number of shares increased. Please confirm if this relates to earnout, vendor considerations on acquisitions, not on cash rates. So we do sometimes make share increases where we have a long-term investor, for example, then we do that. And sometimes, when we also, of course, as you mentioned, we have earn-outs or vendor considerations. We also use that. But currently, we plan no cash increases just for getting money. When we see a cash increase -- capital increase, you always do it for strategic reasons. That's important for us. How will you finance the AEP deal 100% with other investors, or cash-only bond money used? No. So we will make a mixture of on cash and of external financial sources, as we already mentioned in our call today. Then there's again a question of. The question is, why did we make a debt to equity swap with this acquisition? Well, I think we saw a good potential here to work with them together to remain them as a good shareholder in our group, and to be aligned that they are in line with our strategy. And I think, yes, it's a good decision to do that. And we have very good long-term shareholder, and we are very confident that we work very good together with them. Why do you both financing options for AEP have different loan volumes? Well, because they are different offers. So yes, let's be surprised on which one we will choose. And you ask also what do you do with the difference of EUR 35 million between Option 1 or 2, actually, we can work with both options. So let's see which one is a better one for our company and which one is also reflecting our idea of making deleverage and reduce our interest costs. What are the terms of the new facilities? Of course, they are confidential, so we cannot communicate it. And they are not public bonds. So we cannot give you an answer on that here. Is there any recent market concerns regarding corporate governance and transparency? What are the specific steps you're taking to improve investor relations and ensure full transparency to restore market confidence in the coming quarters? Yes. So I think that we already mentioned some things which we already initiated. And I think we are also optimistic that we can get back confidence. And to be honest, we don't see a lag in our corporate governance. If you see specific things on that, just let us know. I would be very interested in what exactly you mean with that, and we will be happy to get your feedback also if you want in the personal meeting. Has the management considered increasing its personal shareholdings? Yes, definitely. There's only a question about if you have some upcoming potential insider statements, and insider transactions, you always have to consider that when you make transactions here. So it's not so easy for management sometimes to make and buy shares. So there are only some windows of opportunities within the year. Does the future finance also forbid share buybacks? So no, the future financing does not forbid any share buyback. But of course, our current bond structure, which we initiated with Pareto does not allow that. Is M&A more difficult now with the low share price? No. Absolutely not because if you sell a company, you're not looking on the share price of the buyer you're looking for the strategic perspective, you're looking for your buying price, but you're not looking for the share price. Why TPG doesn't stop M&A to repay the bond and once repaid begin with a share repurchase? Well, so 2 things. As I said, we already have to find a good balance between operational investments because we strongly believe -- we really believe that we can make good investments in such a market environment and that we can buy companies for 3 or 4x earnings. That's really a good opportunity. Even if our own valuation is worse, which is in fact right now, we think that we should make those investments because they are good investments. And we have a long-term strategy and long-term means we do not decide on a quarterly basis. We have a long-term strategy and want to invest in our strategy and find good targets with that. But yes, you are right, of course, we have to find a balance between investments for buying back our bonds and make M&A activities here. How can you align debt reduction strategy with planned acquisitions? Well, of course, you can find companies where you just pay 2 or 2-point-something EBITDA. So this is possible. And definitely, we do that. But this is a very on that. And yes, you are also right, when we pay some amounts by cash, we don't have to use the full purchase price with debt. So when you combine just an LTV of, let's say, 60% with debt and 40% equity or cash, then I think you have a good ratio, and you can always stay with the 2.0 leverage strategy. And this is very important for us. Any share pledges? No, should have insight to shareholder structure where we publish our shareholder structure on our public page. Paladin Asset Management fully liquidated their positions, how is the IR team actively working to rebuild credibility and reengage institutional interest. I think Nathalie already answered that -- and yes, I think Paladin is not invested here anymore, but this is already some months ago, yes. Despite strong reported operational delivery in full year 2025, TPG share and bond price has declined significantly. How does management explain the disconnect between operating performance and equity market valuation? Well, actually, I don't -- cannot explain that because we try to do our best. And yes, of course, you can criticize me, you can criticize other executives in our group. This is completely possible, and we have no problems with that. But at the end, we just make a business and try to continue our business in a very good way. And if a market is not appreciated in that, we try to do our best to change that. But at the end, we cannot influence it directly. But yes, we totally agree that the stock is undervalued, and we totally agree that we see higher valuations in the future. But yes, you're right, we have to take this critics, and we have to think about a new strategy, how to recover from here, definitely. You say you can't buy back shares, okay. But you even diluted the shares for M&A. Why do you stop or stop M&A until you can pay upcoming M&A with cash? Yes, we do M&A with cash. But usually, when we make M&A, we combine the purchase price between debt, cash and shares. So this is our deepest conviction that the combination is always the right thing, not only to rely on one source. And when we make M&A investments, we try to combine these 3 things. And so I think -- this is also from a personal perspective, a good idea, and we can work with that. Okay. I think these are all questions we have already asked and answered before. and 1 hour was offered, Okay, yes, 4 an hour was offered. Are there any cost-cutting initiatives? You can undertake? Yes. Definitely, we already started it. And if we define it as a whole program, we also will communicate it. But yes, you are right, we always try to reduce costs, but we are not a fan of saying, "Hey, we make a new program every year, we make a new name for that." So when we start a program, we will communicate it. And yes, then it has to be significant here, definitely. There's a question is the [Foreign Language],. Well, I mean the biggest shareholder is the Benner holding, so it's my family office. And I think there are not so many big parties behind that. So we have some shareholders with, I'd say, I think, around 2%, 3%, 4%, 4%, 5% and but they are not players like 20% or 15%. This is not existing in our group. So the free float, which we have is a pretty private free float, and it's very granular. You have significant short-term debt. Why do you take such a big risk? Well, to be honest, we don't think that we have significant short-term debt? -- our debt numbers. I mean we talk about 30-something million compared to EUR 500 million of balance sheet for this year. I think this is not a big number. This is a very good relation from our perspective. So I think we are quite on a reasonable level here. Next question. Do you see all of your 5 operating segments as long as strategic business? Or would you consider selling one of these to crystallize the value? Of course, we always take offers if somebody wants to offer it, but we have a long-term perspective and long-term perspective means for the big majority of our targets, we want to have an evergreen approach and make sure that we want to continue here.

Mr. Benner, we have reached the time limit exactly. Yes, as said, in view of the time, we are coming to the end of today's earnings call. Please understand that we will not be able to answer all the questions during this call, but please feel free to contact Mrs. Richert for further questions. Thank you, everyone, for joining and your shown interest in The Platform Group. A big thank you also to you, Dr. Benner and Mrs. Richert for your presentation and the time you took to answer all these questions. I wish you all a lovely remaining weak, and I'm handing over once more to you, Dr. Benner for some final remarks.

Feel always free to contact us directly, and we can make a follow-up call by July for all the audience here. And yes, I'm very happy to meet you again.