The Siam Cement Public Company Limited (SCC) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Welcome back again to SCG Analyst Conference for the first quarter of 2024. My name is [ Pawinee ] from IR team, and I'll be the moderator for today's session. We highly appreciate for our guests who have come on site today and also those who join us online as well. Our management are here today to provide you the consolidated results of the first quarter business updates and outlook. We will later open the floor for the questions after the presentation. And today's presenter following the presentation sequences comprised of SCG management, led by Khun Thammasak Sethaudom, the CEO of SCG, who will walk you through the consolidated results, SCG Cleanergy Business Update and consolidated outlook; and SCGC management, led by Khun Sakchai Patiparnpreechavud, CEO and President of SCGC. Next are our management from businesses related to cement and construction, beginning with Khun Surachai Nimlaor, President of SCG Cement and Green Solutions business; and Khun Wiroat Rattanachaisit, President of SCG Smart Living and SCG Distribution and Retail businesses; followed by Khun Chantanida Sarigaphuti, CFO of SCG, who will be presenting SCGP and consolidated financial results. Last but not least, for the sustainability part this quarter will be highlighted by Khun Suracha Udomsak Chief Innovation Officer of SCGC. Before session begins, I would like to give a little note that Khun Peter Tanawong Areeratchakul, our CEO and President of SCGC will join this session for his last session for our analyst conference. And he'll pass his role to Khun Sakchai Patiparnpreechavud, which should be effective on the 1st of May. I would like to pass the floor to pee phom Thammasak to say farewell to Peter first and then, please, pee phom, begin the program ka. Please ka.

Thank you, khap. First of all, thank you for attending this morning discussion. And we have a little ceremony to thanks our big brother who stayed with us for a very long time. I used to work for Peter for several years in Vietnam. And I really respect Peter, and also learned a lot from him. One of the things that is still linger in my mind is the line-by-line checking in terms of the schedule, in terms of the detail, that we really have to make things right. So he always mention that focus on the important issue, make sure that we get into the detail and make it right. So that's still helping me up until now. So Peter has a numerous contribution to SCG, from operation in chemical, 10-year contribution at the ROC. You can see that ROC is one of the best-in-class asset in the world. Pioneer in the Long Son Petrochemicals in Vietnam. That time is a very tough time, that's why I know. And leading the SCG corporates towards the vision of innovation and go regional contribution to SCG Packaging after rebranding from SCG Paper into SCG Packaging and initiative from vision to realities of the green polymers. So he started a lot of green polymer lately, and a key driver to inclusive green growth. So not only myself, but of the SCG management have a beautiful memory with Peter thank you for all the contribution. Please don't mistake that you will not go any far. He'll still be our -- my adviser, SCG Advisor, helping us for the continuities. And we will still get his contribution over the next few more years, at least. Thank you, Khun Peter. Okay. That's the warm note. Let's start with something that -- okay. On the consolidated result. But I would like to start with the OFAC just to make sure that I provide a good information to everyone, even though we're filing the document to SCT a few days ago. But since this is probably one of the key concern from many parties, so let me address this one upfront. So if you remember that probably a long time ago in 2005, we start the investment in Iran. At that time, Iran and the U.S. relationship is very well, okay? So we follow the opportunities and invest. And of course, there is the on and off relationship. Then -- when the U.S. put sanction on Iran, we stopped. When another time, they lift sanction, we start. Because we already have assets at that time, okay? So on and off, this kind of the relationship and geopolitics start to concern us a long time ago, then we decided to exit. We exit in 2018. So basically, that's done. All of the sale from Iran and everything is done. We exit. And the investigation to the transaction start in the 2017 and '18, which, to our surprise also. We fully comply, and we are very open to all the transactions. So we show fully comply and give cooperation to the OFAC. And you could see that that's not our intention to breach the sanction. But the sanction specified that you still can sell it, but you cannot use U.S. dollar. So this is something that start to confuse the frontline. So we recognize that. And then we -- I think the best way for us and for everyone is to make a settle agreement instead of have the legal litigation, which is really costly. So we made a settlement agreement on this. And of course, we implement the internal policy to make sure that this kind of -- the issue cannot happen again. So -- and not just the policy, actually, it's involved a lot of training, communication, make sure that anything that change in the regulation, which is the central legal department will have to observe and monitor, then we have to communicate to the front line, okay? And you could see that we minimize the risk by exit from many assets that have some risky of the quick policy change. So that kind of thing we have done, okay? So -- in term of the impact of $20 million, it's in last year, it's not in this year. So it's already done. I could say that we already exit, we already settle. We already implemented all the procedure and process and even including the training. I think it's -- it should be over. And we're still vigilant and we are still proactive on any policy change in the future. Of course, it's not anything about the Iran because we already exit, but maybe somewhere else that we need to be careful, okay? So that's the first note I want to address before we get into the business matter. Next, so I would like to give some highlights on the first quarter this year. Let me explain in 2 steps, the macro and our initiative. You could see that in -- on the macro side, Thailand economy start to improve. We get benefit from tourists, 9 million people coming in. So this is very helpful. FDI, whether you like it or not, from Mainland China for many is coming, and is also helpful in terms of the economic process. And the government policy that try to stimulate the economy and consumption, that also, in a way, help. So we see some good, positive improvement in the macro sentiment. So that's in the Thailand. But SCG, about close to 50% is outside Thailand. Thailand is just 56% of the sales revenue. So 44% is in the region. So Vietnam, how about Vietnam? Vietnam, in terms of the consumption now, you see a good improvement, okay? But on the construction and real estate project, still pretty slow. So it start to slowly go up, but it takes more time because of the anti-corruption campaign that's still implemented in Vietnam. So that dampened the mood of the investment. That will take time to recover. And I hope that toward the fourth quarter this year, you're going to see a good, a clear improvement on this. In Indonesia, I see an upbeat situation. I just came back from Indonesia. You see that the continuity of the political party, that's also helpful. And the FDI phoned to the Indonesia and competitive on the energy cost. So that helps Indonesia. And also the mineral that attract the FDI. Indonesia is good. Philippines is getting better and better. Cambodia and Laos is still quite slow. That's what we can say. Geopolitics is still very worrisome. Whether you like it or not, this is going to be a very worrisome for the next few years. And it could impact the business, that's what I can say. So on the chemical, we still maintain the expected recovery in the trend of the second half of this year. And what we do is -- another thing is that if you listened to [ P.B. Chan ] a few days ago, the packaging is recovering. Because packaging is linked to the consumer, consumer will get better first, the fastest recovery. And then you're going to see the housing and construction follow the trend. So that's a good driver. What we have done over the past quarter, we focused on the low-carbon cement that the big -- low-carbon cement bag. That the new low-carbon cement that we are pushing. It's helping us on the top line and helping us on the bottom line. So we strengthened our cost position by ramping up the alternative fuels that I always say this is important. We ramped up to 47%, and you will listen to pee nong Surachai. This will help us reduce the cost, make us more competitive. So that's the major driver for better performance of the cement and construction. SCG Chemical is post recovery of the Q-on-Q improvement. You could see from Q4 to Q1 is quite a big improvement. And the green polymer still make -- enrolled in the new grid. We're still fighting on the quarter-by-quarter situation, but we never deviate from our long-term target of the green growth, the inclusive green growth. Packaging is -- Packaging improved on a year-on-year and the Q-on-Q, you see that top line, bottom line improve. Because the consumer link is -- the consumer segment has started to recover first. SCG decor is on track. They just unveiled the competitive sales growth target as 2x. So that the ambition that they try to do and their performance also get better Q-on-Q. SCG still have a very strong financial position with good cash on hand. This is the balancing portion for our stabilities. May I quickly go through the first quarter sale is the THB 124 billion, up Q-on-Q, but still down year-on-year. Up Q-on-Q because of the improvement from most -- almost of our business, okay? But year-on-year is not because of the cement and construction not fully recovered yet. But we start to see Q-on-Q improvement. EBITDA is registered at THB 12.6 billion, up Q-on-Q and up 4% year-on-year. You could see that even though the sale on the year-on-year, we are not beat last year, but our EBITDA already beat, thanks to the -- our initiative on the green movement on the top line and the bottom line. Profit for the period registered at THB 2.4 billion on the Q-on-Q, clearly, a big improvement because, last quarter, we made an impairment and loss. So that's why it's up. But if you look at the nonrecurring, it's still pretty good improvement. But if you look at the year-on-year, still weaker on the year-on-year compared to last year, mainly because of the chemical still gradually improved, that one I can say. From segment -- profit by segment, packaging now 29%, and cement and green construction 28%, and the smart living and distribution and retail of 14%, decor is now 4%. So you could see that CBM -- the -- all CBM collectively on the CGS Smart Living and Decor. It's still a big chunk. And the investments still have a good contribution to through our bottom line. If you look at the destination, Thailand, it's 56%. ASEAN ex Thailand is 28%, 36%, and this is up 5% year-on-year, and the other is 18%. So [ shagging ] the election, still toward the green growth, we know that if we figure out the right solution of the green growth that will help us on the top line and the bottom line. So we make it very practical for this strategic shift. So let me pass to Sakchai.

[Foreign Language] Good morning. This is my first time -- first time with the business in this year. Everyone knows petrochemicals is in the 12th cycle, but it's going to be better. Look at this oil price from us, you'll see all the price, especially the byproducts. The byproducts you could see in the yellow colors, that's the jump-up. Actually, because of the less supply of these byproducts. Look at the Olefin chains. Actually, the cost push that make the price up. And we can pass on some cost to the products. The cap of the chains, you look at the PE chains, more or less same as the last quarter. It's probably dropped down a little bit. But PP chains increased from 290s up to 300-something. Actually, this is also because of the demand in the first quarter of PPE, especially in South Asia, it's quite strong. Look at the sales volumes, the same volume of the first quarter dropped down to 300,000 tons, it's about units 6,000 tons. This is because of our [ lateralizations ] our one of the [ hardest ] we checked out almost a quarter. And that's made the overall of the sales volume of the olefin chain drop down. The vinyl chain is also actually really challenging because the demand side of PVC is still weak. You know [ where still ] PVC demand linked to the constructions and the construction in the region, especially in China is weak, that makes the PVC price weak, at the same time, the cost push by the EDC. EDC is the first quarter actually is really, really tight because of the terminals of the key supplier in the Middle East. So overall, PVC chain in the first quarter, the gaps dropped down sharply from the last quarter from something to 200-something to 270. The volumes you may see the volumes. Polyolefin is also down, vinyl chain is also down. So a little bit, actually, this is by intentions to manage the our business during these top cycles. We have to make our sale flexible. Sometime we maximize sales. Sometimes we slow down the production. Just want to sure this is -- maximize the company performance during the downturn. So the vinyl chain, the volumes we checked the 1 VCM plant. That's why the overall volume dropped down to 154,000. Look at the financial performance, the revenues dropped down to THB 45,000 because of the volume that I mentioned. EBITDA. EBITDA is better than the last quarters. You look at the blue colors, that's from the operation. And of course, the first quarter is normally the upseason of the dividend payment. Overall, even though it's less than the last quarter, but from the operation, there's a big improvement. Looking at the net profit -- actually, with our LSP overall operation in Thailand and the rest are still positive. But the first quarter is our LSP is still under test run, that's why overall net profit negative, minus THB 1,866 billion. Look at the second quarters, actually, it seemed economies improved a little bit. That's also -- we also expect the demand in the second quarter improve a little bit. The supply side, there are positive and negatives. On the positive side, most of the producers in the maintenance every year, coming to the second quarter, the producer, they have their scheduled maintenance. At the same time, also have the new capacity coming up in China. Right now, on the supply side, plus/minus would be the same. We expect the demand improve a little bit. Anyway, even though costs are still pushing because of the political tensions at this moment, but we expect the gap of polyolefin chain will be maintained. The vinyl chain, the demand of the -- especially from the construction PVC, resin, that is still weak. Anyway, the good side is that, in the beginning, it says that because of feedstock of this vinyl chain is really high. But the second quarter is the EDC producer just back -- resumed the productions, so the price is lower. We expect the PVC chain in the second quarter will be much better. So about the green -- our green initiative, as Peter used to promise to achieve our green products sale in the next 2030, up to 1 million tons. That is these quarters, we can achieve 38,000 tons. Actually, it's on our plan. Highlights of the green business. Our [ other core ] asset named Sirplaste, we already installed a new unit. This make up really high quality of PCR. So the premium should be better. Overall Sirplaste capacity now, we can lung up to 45,000 tons a year. Another highlight, we have a small -- we have the activities with HomePro. This is a kind of the closed-loop circular electrical appliance. We work with them. We bringing back the used electrical appliance to make the recycled resin and supply to the electrical appliance company. Update, LSP, from the last quarter. Peter just -- already informed. We already successfully start up the downstream. Actually, the downstream could land fully. But the first quarter is actually, we try to ramp up the capacity of the upstream. We filed some technical difficulty in the equipment. That's why we decided to shut down again and to do the maintenance and also some modification in order to ensure the operation this time. We expect to fit in the conduct again in July. And also, it probably takes another 2-3 weeks up to 1 month to fully land the downstream in August. That's all of my part. I pass to pee nong.

Thank you. Thank you, khap. [Foreign Language] Good morning, khap. So may I start from the top line. In this quarter, the revenue from sale in the first quarter, that allowed 6%, mainly from non-Thai operation and soft demand in construction market. And EBITDA and profit for this period increased, allow a 14% and 46% year-on-year as a result of our effort, mostly from our energy transition projects. Look at the Thai market. Overall demand in the first quarter, that is around 10% year-on-year. It's expected to see some recovery in demand growth in the second half of this year, mainly from government budget. And situation in ASEAN, you can see a positive growth in Indonesia and Cambodia compared to the same period last year. And the ready-mix concrete decreased 6%, allied with our cement demand growth. In the first quarter, our alternative fuel uses has reached 47%, increase of 5% from the previous quarter, mainly from developing a new decarbonization technology and also the replacement of our ordinary Portland cement with low-carbon cement has increased from 81% to 85%. And we still are focused on the decarbonization project. In the first quarter our decarbonization project got approved by BOI as the first low-carbon projects in cement business to get a tax privilege. That's a part of our decarbonization road map. We continue launching the new carbon products for various applications to serve our customer segment. And we also have rebrand, our product from SCG hybrid cement to SCG low-carbon cement for clearer recognition. And we still launched the second generation of low-carbon cement, which is a better property and lower-carbon emission in May this year. Over the past many years, we have been working on our decarbonization road map by developing and investing in various type of decarbonization technology as well as having innovative business model to secure the supply of clean energy. And for the outlook, we expect to see the recovery in Thailand construction in the second half of this year, driven by the government projects, while seeing continued growth in Indonesia and recovery in other markets. And we continue working on cost reduction by increasing our alternative fuel users. And for the regional cost reduction by using alternative fuel is our common strategy. And we still also implement the marketing strategies that -- which customize based on competitive landscape in each country. And for the decarbonization, we are still on the pathway to achieve the net-zero target. So it can be seen that our cement business can do clean and [indiscernible] at the same time. So that's all for the cement and green solution business. May I pass to [ Wiroat ].

Good morning, khap. As my current responsibility includes the smart living and distribution and details, I will cover business in the market and movement. Our revenues for the -- decreased 3% year-on-year from the softer demand in medium to low segment, but increased 6% Q-on-Q, driven by strong seasonal sales. So in terms of the EBITDA, EBITDA our grew is 34% year-on-year and 55% Q-on-Q, thanks to cost reduction, operational improvement and better performance in domestic distribution. In terms of the net profit, it grew year-on-year and Q-on-Q following by the EBITDA. For the market situation, in Thai building material market situation, building material dropped 6.5% due to the slow market in overall segment except the commercial. For the regional, demand was low in the mall part. However, we anticipate a gradually improving market in both Thailand and regional. The SCG Smart Living business highlight. We made a significant [ growth ] toward inclusive green growth as following: For the smart building material system, we collaborate with the Cafe Amazon to innovate a Green Choice product called SCG MODEENA COFF made from used coffee grounds and renewable fiber. Also, we were recognized as the 2023 and 2024 Thailand Most Admired Company and Brand by BrandAge. And we continue to enhance cost competitiveness to alternative energy such as solar power, which now we use as around 19% of total energy consumption. And the Smart Solution, we launched our new band ONNEX to move toward true solution for sustainable society, which will cover in 4 main areas: energy, air, safety and controls. We also grew energy business with 99% year-on-year increase in solar sales and expand our technology for both residential, commercial and industrial. For the distribution and retails highlight. Urbanice is a former SCG start-up offer community management platform for residential in condominium and housing village. In collaboration with LivingOS, it's a specialist in property management system. The whole operation make the energy platform become #1 online property management in Thailand. SCG International continued mission to drive the Smart Clean Mobility by collaboration with the CP FOTON to provide both 4- and 6-wheel for EV truck for customers. Looking ahead at the -- looking forward for the rest of the year, we anticipate full recovery of Thai market in both government and private segment for regional [ policy ] recovery be seen in some country. We aim to achieve inclusive green growth with comprehensive strategy, such as gross sale in Green Choice product and Smart Solutions, improved competitiveness to Solar Energy, carry on with platform that help enhance supply chain process efficiencies, continue to strengthen our presence in [indiscernible]. That's for my part. And another one is the SCG Decor. For the SCG Decor pro forma, [indiscernible] in this third quarter, the revenues decrease of the 7% year-on-year due to the softened market. On [indiscernible] to reduction of revenue, both EBITDA and profit is growing year-on-year and Q-on-Q. We were in hand and driven by the result of continued effort in operation efficiency, cost and energy-saving project, together with the gradually decline of the energy price. For the SCG Decor target, revenue 2x in the 2030. SCG Decor has declared aspirational revenue in 2030. For SCG Decor, we has [indiscernible] above our revenue by 2 -- 4 key strategies. The growth driven from our decor Surface included as evident, a new tile in South Vietnam, expansion of HVA product portfolio, and accelerated sale of high-growth products such as SPC and glazed porcelain. For the Bathroom business, we -- growth will be supported by ASEAN business expansion to our decor of [ 8% ] in ASEAN. We were exploring opportunity to accelerate the production plan in ASEAN. Then for the complementary product, growth strategy, SCGD continued to drive growth, like adhesive, [indiscernible] door, window and countertop. And lastly, M&P will also be one-off and important engine to grow the business in the future. That's all for on my part, khap, [indiscernible].

Good morning. I'm very pleased to present SCG Packaging because you're going to see all the green arrows in our category. So we have a solid performance of SCG Packaging. In first quarter sales, EBITDA and net profit grew both year-on-year and Q-on-Q. Sales revenue was about THB 34 billion. EBITDA was THB 5.1 billion. As I mention to you, I think, every quarter that the management of SCG Packaging has put emphasis on the continuous efficiency management and the cost saving. So you can see that the result in the improvement in the net profit along the pickup in the market. So net profit was about THB 1.5 billion in the first quarter. If you look at the -- Thailand and Vietnam, both countries performed than expectation. Indonesia was a bit bigger -- weaker, but there was a good sign that the domestic sales volume has increased. And also, we have seen the price improvement in Indonesia as well. Moving on to some financial figures. Starting with the net debt. Total debt at the end of first quarter was THB 362 billion. And we have cash on hand at the end of March at THB 28 billion. So net debt stood at THB 283 billion at the end of March. Net debt to equity remained unchanged at 0.6x, while net debt-to-EBITDA remains at roughly at above 5.2x. In terms of the capital expenditure and investment, during the first quarter, we spent roughly about THB 9.4 billion. And if you see top right-hand corner on the pie chart, more than half was spent by the chemical business unit, and most of that was spent through LSP. Our target of the CapEx spending remains unchanged at THB 40 billion for this year. And that, as I mentioned, that excludes the share acquisition of the Fajar that will take place this quarter. And the payment [indiscernible] is going to happen in third quarter. That's about [ THB 22 billion, THB 23 billion. ] On the financials, I would say the -- our financial position remains very solid. As I mentioned, cash on hand, THB 28 billion. In terms of the long-term debt, 70% comes from debenture. And with the recent issuance of debenture that completed on April 1, we still received very strong response, a very high subscription rate, about 90%, from our bondholders. Interest, in terms of the portfolio, the fixed portion now, it is about 93%. And in the first quarter, our cost of fund is roughly about 3.3% which was better than fourth quarter and also the first quarter of last year. In terms of the currency mix, about 3/4 is in Thai baht and remaining in U.S. dollar. That's conclude my part. Then move on to [indiscernible] Surachai.

Okay. So I will explain about our progress on the ESG. So in terms of net zero commitment that we're going to get to 25% reduction in 2030 and from the base year of 2020. So from the graph, you can see that we're still making good focus. We'll strive. And one of the main contribution is, as mentioned by cement business, that we have been very quite successful in terms of using low-carbon alternative for mainly the biomass. So this quarter, we ramped it up to 47% for Thailand operation, which means that we take out about 500,000 tonnes of coal from the full pool. And I think the other thing that we're also making very good progress as my business colleagues mentioned about the low-carbon product. So we make about 53% of the revenue from the low-carbon-type products. And we were able to take out the CO2, almost 230,000 tonnes of carbon dioxide off the table. So that's very good. And cement is the main contributor for that. So this is just to recap all the Green Choice low-carbon product that our business community is driving. So for chemical, it's a green polymer that focus on 4 pillar: reduce, recyclable, recycled and renewable. And for the low-carbon cement and concrete, we are making good progress to replace the conventional OPC with the low-carbon-type cement and concrete. And for packaging, they have a green carton, which is one of the best in the world in terms of getting the strength with the less material. The last one, I think, this is more on the society as a whole. So we are the driving force for the Saraburi Sandbox low-carbon city. So we used our strength to bring multiple stakeholders from both Thailand and international to the table and to drive project in Saraburi to make progress on low carbon. So we were -- we are running about 17 projects that are active and -- to make the Thailand to be the leader and showcase for low carbon city. So that's all for the presentation. Thank you.

Khap, thank you, Khap. Just forget to tell you that Pee Chana is in the conference on the fair electricity price. So very important. And Pee Chana now, at the moment, talking about the grid modernization and recommendation. So that's why I say please go to talk to that forum, and Dr. Surachai helping to fill in. Okay then. We work as a team, as you know. On the clean energy part, the installed capacity is now ramped up to 307. So you see that we are accumulating the grid megawatt. Today, up to now, the signed -- if including the signed deal, we have 467 megawatts. So in line with our target for this year. So 300 megawatt is something that we are doing, and we're adding more and more. Rondo is still special, important for us. We already signed up the 20 customer in the design engineering. So this is the heat battery that we are talking about. Just to recap very quickly. So this heat battery is one of the key piece -- very important piece of the industry decarbonization because this can replace the boiler that any steam generation or heat generation, you can use the heat battery. So we are very pleased to announce that we will install the first unit in Thailand because -- we're working with many customers in the region, and our partner, Rondo, are working in U.S., in Europe and also in Middle East. So we are designing and working to install the first unit in Thailand in our cement plant. This is going to be a good demonstration. And again, just to show you that [ The Economist ] is talking about this heat battery as the very important piece of equipment, mainly because this is a cheaper, more competitive compared to the electric one. If you really want to succeed on the decarbonization of the global decarbonization, you need something that's very competitive and very economical to do so. So [ John O'Donnell ] is the founder of this Rondo [indiscernible] to mention the SCG as an investor and also the supporter of the thermal [ media. ] So that green energy, we're still moving on with the green energies. So on the -- for the summary and the outlook, may I start with overall Q1 performance actually improved from quarter-to-quarter, driven by internal effort after green initiative. You could see that the market for the cement is not that good yet. But our performance get better because of our alternative fuels, our green cement that we are launching. So this gives me a little bit of confidence that the green growth is possible. So that's something already [ appetent ] Momentum to continue, particularly in the second half of this year, and that's why we start to see because you see the Thailand economic conditions should get better, the government disbursement already underway. Thai infrastructure, Thai fundamental will get better. Stimulus policy and tourists arrival will also play a good part. Sign of the emerging consumer growth, I also see -- you can see from the packaging. So when we look at this economic situation, we want to see an early sign of the consumption. So that's a good leading indicator for the other business. Chemical, especially on the polyethylene, the margin trend to recover in the second half of this year, mainly because if you look at the graph over the past 4 years, the capacity addition is around 5%, last year at 4%. But this year, we are talking about 2.4%. So that, naturally, when the global GDP improved and supply addition slow down, so you will see a more balance of the demand and supply. So that's why we predict the -- in the second half on the PE thing to start to improve. But anyway, there's still many uncertainty on the geopolitics. So at the moment, the oil price is around THB 80 to THB 90. If the geopolitic become a regional issue, the oil price would jump up further. That's something we have to be mindful. Even though we feel that before the U.S. President election, everyone will try to calm down the situation. So that's also helpful. So our focus, our priorities, number one is we want to reduce our energy costs and also, at the same time, reduce our carbon emission. The alternative fuels that [ Pino ] pushing will need to run faster because every tonnage that you can add will help us to achieve on the better performance and also on the decarbonization. The CapEx we spent on the green product, clean energy and digital technology. I'm not talking a lot about the digital technologies, but we do utilize those digital technologies, AI. Financial strength and cash on hand is still very, very needed. Many people ask why we still hold quite high cash. Mainly because of the uncertainty that we are facing around the world. That's something we need to make stabilities. So people is our stabilities. And fully committed to what the green product highlight by the low-carbon cement, green polymers and our SPS, Pee Chana talking about the CODs in August. So that's our priority for the next few quarters, khap.