The Tata Power Company Limited (500400) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Tata Power Q4 FY '25 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Dr. Praveer Sinha, MD and CEO of Tata Power. Thank you, and over to you.

Thank you, Yashasvi. Good evening, everyone, and thank you for joining for the analyst call. I am joined today by my colleagues, CFO, Mr. Sanjeev Churiwala; Financial Controller, Mr. J.V. Patil; Mr. Rajesh Lachhani and Mr. Kasturi Soundararajan from the Investor Relations, and a few other members from our finance team. Let me first put the perspective of the power sector. Last year, the growth of power demand for the whole year has been nearly 5%. And in the March quarter, it was nearly 4%. And we expect that this year also, the growth will be in the range of about 5%. Though, in the month of April, we have only seen 2% growth. We do expect that this year, the peak demand will increase to something like 270 gigawatts. And the way the power sector is geared up, I think we'll be able to meet that additional load. From Tata Power side also, all our plants will be operating at full capacity, so that whatever is our commitment in terms of supply, we will be able to meet. Coming to our performance. This is the 22nd successive quarter in which our PAT has grown. Our reported PAT is nearly 25% higher in the March quarter, which is at INR 1,306 crores while the adjusted PAT was 16% higher at INR 1,288 crores compared to last year's INR 1,109 crores. Our Q4 EBITDA has also increased by 14% to INR 3,829 crores compared to last year's INR 3,358 crores. Coming to the full year, FY '25 has been a historic year. For the first time, the company has posted a PAT in excess of INR 5,000 crores. And underlying EBITDA has been more than INR 15,000 crores. While the reported revenue has gone up by 5% to INR 64,502 crores, the PAT before exceptional has gone to INR 5,197 crores, which is a 26% increase on a year-on-year basis. And the underlying EBITDA has increased by 10% to INR 15,261 crores. This achievement has been possible because of many of our core businesses have performed exceedingly well. Our existing generation business has done very well. Transmission and distribution has also done well. And similarly, our renewable business has also done very well. And as we had shared with you last year, we are on track to double our PAT and EBITDA by FY '30. For the year '25, FY '25, the renewable business, we could achieve capacity add of 1,026 megawatts. And for the first time, we have been able to add capacity of more than 1 gigawatt. We also in the quarter commissioned 166 gigawatts of capacity. And over the years, we have seen that our capacity has been growing. We also have a very good pipeline of our renewable business where nearly 5.5 gigawatts of capacity will be added in next 6 months to 24 months, where land for most of the projects have been acquired as well as the connectivity. And we do hope that our target to have nearly 70% clean and green energy by 2030 will be possible, not only with the renewable projects that we are setting up, but also the pumped hydro project where the work has already started in Bhivpuri project -- and in the 1,000 megawatt Bhivpuri project. Work in 1,800 megawatt Shirawata pumped hydro will start in the later part of the year. Our project in Bhutan, the 600 megawatt Khorlochhu project, the work has already started from 1st January. And we expect that by November 29, the project will be completed. In our solar business, especially solar rooftop business, our revenues have gone up by 40% in the quarter to INR 865 crores, and EBITDA has gone up by 72% to INR 132 crores. For the full year, our rooftop business had sales of nearly 782 megawatts, with a revenue of INR 2,210 crores and PAT of INR 209 crores. And in the coming year, that is FY '26, we expect that this will nearly double, considering that huge initiatives are being taken by us, along with the government PM Surya Ghar project, especially in the states of Odisha, UP, Rajasthan, Assam and Maharashtra. We, in fact, continue to be #1 in rooftop solar with our presence in more than 700 cities. Coming to our manufacturing of solar cell and modules, the plant is now fully operational at Tirunelveli. And they are operating at more than 90% each. In this year, though we started the production a little late, in the whole year, we have supplied nearly 3,300 megawatts of the modules. In this quarter, we could supply 913 megawatt of modules and 650 megawatt of cells. And the reported revenue of this quarter was INR 1,500 crores, and the EBITDA margin has gone up to 27%. For the full year, the TP Solar has reported revenue of INR 5,337 crores, EBITDA of INR 875 crores and a PAT of INR 422 crores. With both the cell and module line fully operational, we do expect that in the coming year, we'll cross the 3,700 megawatt of production of both cells and modules. In our T&D business also, which actually has shown record performance in this year, in the quarter, our revenue was INR 9,590 crores, PAT of INR 616 crores. For the full year, the revenue of T&D business is INR 39,122 crores and a PAT of INR 2,000 crores. This has been possible because of excellent performance by all our distribution company, including Odisha DISCOMs where the PAT has gone up by more than 3x for the whole year. In fact, in Odisha DISCOMs, PAT increased to INR 439 crores from INR 307 crores in the previous year. And we do expect that with the operations stabilizing and a whole lot of work that has been done in improving the quality of service, this performance will further improve in the coming year. With all our distribution business, whether it is in Odisha, Delhi, Mumbai and Ajmer doing very good. The company is also looking at the opportunities to expand especially in some of the states where the distribution bidding process will start later part of this month. And we do expect that, especially in UP where the bid process is starting, we'll be able to increase our footprint. Our balance sheet, with all these investments, continues to be very, very strong. We had a CapEx of INR 4,100 crores in the last quarter. And in the whole year, we had a CapEx of INR 16,200 crores. And in the coming year, we have a plan of having a CapEx of INR 25,000 crores. In spite of such large CapEx, we have been able to have the net debt at INR 44,700 crores. And our net debt to underlying EBITDA continues to be less than 3. It is actually at 2.93. And our net debt to equity is at 1.0 compared to 1.1 in the previous quarter. And because of these reasons, we continue to get the best ratings in corporate India and in the power sector. In fact, Moody's has recently upgraded the outlook on Tata Power from Ba stable -- Ba1 stable to Ba1 positive. Tata Power is committed to go for a very calibrated growth. And our CapEx plans, not only for FY '26, but for subsequent years, is on track. And we do believe that our investments in hydro projects in Bhutan, pumped hydro projects in our existing hydro businesses, T&D investments in our transmission lines and distribution projects, as well as in our renewables will help us to sustain the good performance of the company and maintain the track record of growth in profit for the next few quarters. We believe that this is possible because there is a very strong foundation for the business, and our growth plans are very, very well defined and calibrated. We look forward for your continued support. And with this, I will return to Yashasvi to open the floor for question and answers.

[Operator Instructions] We'll take our first question from the line of Sumit Kishore from Axis Capital.

My first question is in relation to CapEx. On the third quarter call, you had expressed confidence that the company would be able to achieve its target of INR 210 billion of CapEx that you had set for yourselves and which would have implied nearly INR 9,000 crores to INR 10,000 crores of CapEx in Q4. So what led to the shortfall on CapEx? And even in the December analyst meet, we spoke about 588 megawatt of renewable capacity addition in Q4, against which 166-megawatt has got added. So what are the challenges here, which delayed your CapEx and your capacity addition targets given that they were just 3 months out? That's the first question.

So our CapEx for the whole year is INR 16,200 crores. For the fourth quarter, it was INR 4,000 crores plus. There were some delays in execution of projects. One was in the renewables, some of the locations, the transmission evacuation system, which is being done by the other companies, they could not be set up. And because of those delays, we could not complete the project in time and evacuate the power. The second is, some of the transmission lines that we were doing, those also got delayed because of, right of way issues. We have been able to sort that out. And whatever we could not complete in the last quarter, we'll be able to meet all those in this quarter. So it's not that they have been deferred, but it's just that the implementation time lines have got little delayed for various reasons, and we are on track to make up in the coming quarters.

Sure. So the transmission evacuation issues are largely sorted to commission 2.5 gigawatt plus of renewable in FY '26, like you targeted?

Yes, this year, we will commission nearly 2.5 to 2.7 gigawatt of -- for renewed project. Last year, we actually completed the 2.3 gigawatt of projects.

My compliments on your very strong performance in the solar module business operationally, both for very high levels of capacity utilization, and ramp-up in cell production seen after commissioning. But it seems that the margin performance is also very strong and it appears to be driven by a third-party sale of modules, which are integrated as it sells in the fourth quarter. So is this something that is likely to continue at this scale in FY '26, where you said you will have almost 3,700 megawatts of module and cell production. So how should we think about the third-party mix? And is any volatility through the year that you expect because of your internal requirements? If you could talk about that?

So as you are aware, we commissioned the cell plant in the last quarter and it has ramped up now to full capacity. You will only see improvement of it because in the Q4, we produced 650 megawatt, while in the FY '26, we are expecting more than 3,700. So you can expect the full impact of the production coming in the financial year. Similarly, the module line also has now stabilized, and you will see much better performance in the coming years. So you can assume that the plant will work at full capacity, of which all steps have been taken by the company.

Sir, my question was on what will be the proportion of third-party sale in your solar module and cell business because that is not going to get eliminated on consolidation.

I think we have huge backlog of orders that we need to execute. We ourselves have large projects that is for our own company. In addition to that, we have some third-party EPC obligations, which we need to complete in the next 6 months. So at least till this third quarter, we do not have any excess capacity. In addition to that, as I mentioned to you, we are going to increase the supply to rooftop solar. And again, nearly 1 gigawatt will be required over there. So I think we have a huge pipeline of orders to be executed. And most of these cells and modules that we'll produce will get consumed ourselves. Maybe in subsequent years, we might have some extra capacity for third parties.

Yes. And just to add to what Dr. Sinha said, when we say in-house consumption, even our third-party EPC that we do, finally, the profit will also boil down to the consolidated profit of the renewable businesses. So kind of if you look at a consol basis, all the healthy cell that goes to third-party EPC businesses that we're doing and we do have a backlog of that, that will add up to the profits.

So your third-party order backlog is how big right now for module cells?

I think next year, for sure, we have about a delivery of 1 gigawatt or around so to be done for the third-party EPC.

Beyond the solar rooftops?

[Operator Instructions]

Yes, Sumit, it's beyond solar rooftop.

We'll take our next question from the line of Mohit Kumar from ICICI Securities.

So my first question was there was news in the media that you're already thinking about the existing core business. Is that true? If true, are you exploring organic growth?

Yes. I think there are mixed reactions that you see in the papers and all. I think as Dr. Sinha said, we will be opportunistic. If an opportunity comes, we will see. But as of now, we're kind of more determined to ensure our capital allocation goes to our growth businesses, which is in the renewal and transmission and distribution.

Understood. So my second question is there's a note #2, which talk about some adjustment from the CERC judgment. What is the impact of that note #2 in this particular quarter?

There is no impact in this quarter. This pertains to the earlier quarters, which we already disclosed. The CERC order dated 3rd January 2003.

Yes, yes. They say they issued the final order claim off. So you trued up the amount. So that's what it says. That's why I'm clarifying.

This order is kind of more supporting us in terms of collecting our receivables.

So there's not a material impact in this quarter. Is that right?

Yes. So there's no impact on the P&L because to that extent, as and when we are selling, we've also been booking as per MOP orders. So there's no impact on the P&L.

The last question, is it possible to break up the CapEx layout across the base businesses for FY '26.

We have about the CapEx layout of close to about INR 25,000-odd crores for next year. And if I do a breakup, around 60% of the layout allocation will happen in our renewal businesses. And given that we're also growing our transmission and distribution, CapEx of about 30% odd will go there and the remaining others. But this will remain dynamic. This is a broad allocation as we're starting the year. But depending upon the situation on the ground, the allocation might change.

We'll take our next question from the line of Apoorva Bahadur from IIFL Capital.

A couple of questions, sir. Firstly, on the cell module manufacturing business. I see in your presentation that we have commissioned a TOPCon line, pilot line as well. Would you mind throwing some update on that? I mean do we intend -- when do we intend to upgrade our PERC capacity?

Upgrade? We are now moving for that capability. So right now, we will continue with the 4 gigawatt of Mono PERC and 300-megawatt of TOPCon. So that whatever technology we have used and the efficiency that we are getting, we maximize on that. Whenever the opportunity and the market demand is there for TOPCon, we'll examine it at that stage. But right now, we will continue with the operation of these sites.

Okay, sir. And sir, given the strong utilization, which we are seeing for our cell module line, is there any plan to add capacity over here?

We keep on examining these type of proposals. At the right time, we will take a call.

Okay. Lastly, I wanted to understand our strategy for Tata Projects. I think we have been holding this business for quite some time, have been getting diluted here. Twice there has been a rights issue. So how do we sort of look at this business? The intent is it to hold it till a possible listing or maybe as a sale to the parent at some time?

So as you're aware that Tata Projects came up with rights issue. And since we are now focusing on our core businesses, we have not subscribed to that. And we want to use our money for our own CapEx growth, which we have planned. But as far as Tata Projects is concerned, they have an ambitious plan. And hopefully, in the next 1 to 3 years, they will perform very well and start making profits. And maybe at the appropriate time, Tata Projects management will take a decision on what they need to pursue to make it more robust in terms of a listing or whatever they have to do.

Great, sir. One last question, if I can squeeze it in, and this is regarding the ordering for the wind plants. Wanted to know if we are through with all the orders that would be placed?

Yes, in the final stages, hopefully, next 3 to 4 weeks we will comment.

We'll take our next question from the line of Satyadeep Jain from Ambit Capital.

Firstly, Mr. Sinha, just a clarification question before I ask the questions. To what you responded to Mohit's question on the media article on thermal. It seems you indicated that you'll be -- if there's an opportunity that comes along, you may look at it. Is that a strategic change because the earlier target was that you'll phase out all the coal plants that you have by 2045 or something. Is there a change in that strategy that you might be opportunistic and you may not phase out all the coal plants, you may look at more? Just I know the word opportunistic, but that means you're open to evaluating different opportunities and there's a change in strategy. Just wanted to understand that.

So our end date of 2045 continues to be there. So it's not that, that end date also where we will divest or we will close down the plants by 2045 for all the coal-based plants where we have the PPAs. But as I mentioned to you, there's some stressed asset or some asset, which is there. And typically, if they would have been in operation for some period, we can look at that. But these are, again, very speculative at this stage. There's no plan, per se, that we are immediately going for anything like that.

Okay. Just on the RE, I know you acquired more ISTS connectivity. And there have been some delays in transmission evacuation. Now what is your intent, you're requiring more transmission connectivity? And given your targets, would you -- given the issues we've seen in transmission ROW. Is that why you're holding off on maybe more aggressively building pipeline beyond the next 2 years? What's the thought there? And what's driving that strategy, whatever, maybe exercising caution on building future pipeline?

So as you are aware that there are challenges in the acquisition of land and getting evacuation permission. So as a long-term investment strategy, we continue to acquire land in various places and also keep on applying for connectivity, so that we don't have to start looking for it when we win the projects. And you are aware, we do a large number of projects, not only utility scale but also undergo captive for various industries, as also for many of the group companies in Tata Group. So we definitely would be quite aggressive in acquisition of land and also getting the necessary connectivity from these locations.

Okay. Just one question, if I can squeeze on very high margins you reported in rooftop solar and also Odisha DISCOM, I think there is some ECL provisioning write-back is done. I just wanted to understand that ECL provisioning and what basically drove the profitability in Odisha and also the rooftop solar.

Odisha DISCOMs is a different business and that has nothing to do with the rooftop, excepting for the fact that they do support the rooftop initiatives that we take in Odisha. So I think we need to look both of them separately rather than trying.

Sir, separately, but just want to understand what happened in those two different businesses. Just why did you -- what led to high profitability in solar rooftop in the quarter? And also separately, the DISCOM also reported very high profit. And it seems like there is some ECL provisioning write-back or just wanted to understand two different businesses, but what led to the high -- good performances.

Yes. So I think you're right, there are two different businesses. So Odisha, of course, as you can see, there's a continuous reduction of the AT&T losses. Better efficiencies have come in, better billing and better collection has happened. And back on this, we have a better profitability. There have been some ECL provisioning in terms of clearing up some of the past dues. But even after providing for the ECL provisioning, we delivered a very good set of numbers in Odisha. And hopefully, we've created a good base line to kind of grow from here. So that's on Odisha. On the rooftop businesses, I think the fourth quarter has been a phenomenal quarter for us, where we have delivered good growth. When you look at the numbers of rooftop, for the quarter, we kind of delivered close to about INR 860 crores, INR 870 crores in terms of the top line revenues, with a very healthy PAT margin. And that demonstrate our ability to penetrate the market, capturing the market share, getting a premium for our product based on a high amount of trust that the consumer has. We are kind of operating with 600-plus channel partners. And we want to ensure that the growth that we have in the fourth quarter, we can continue this growth in the coming quarters as well.

We'll take our next question from the line of Mohit Kumar from ICICI Securities.

One clarification, the government of India has come out in the SHAKTI scheme. The new SHAKTI scheme when they allowed the imported coal with power plant to source coal under -- from the domestic sources. Do you think it makes sense for Mundra to tie up the domestic coal in the long term?

See, the Mundra plant is designed for imported coal and imported coal has different chemical characteristics. So it's not just the heat rate, but what is the sulfur content, nitrogen content, what is the ash content. So there are a whole lot of chemical characteristics that it needs to comply to.

We can hear you, sir.

Okay. So we need to consider all these aspects when we go for change in coal. So because of that reason for us, it does not make sense to go for domestic coal. Secondly, the cost of coal if we get from Eastern part of India, especially in terms of the transportation cost is very high. And for us, until and unless we are able to have a very differentiated arrangement, which brings down the cost of coal and also bring down the transportation cost, it will not make real sense to move to any other coal than what we are using at the moment.

Understood. My second question is, is there any update on the financial closure of the pumped storage power plant, which you're building up, especially the 1,000 megawatt.

So yes, we are working on the financial closure, the discussions are happening with the banks. We've just started the work. So we still have a few months to close that.

Yes. But the work is going on at the pumped storage project. So notwithstanding the financial closure, the internal accruals is supporting the investment that is required for the project.

We'll take our next question from the line of [ Rajesh Bhojani from NSG Tech ].

I was interested if the company is expanding in battery energy storage system.

Yes. We set up those projects as a part of the complex renewable projects. So we arrange source for batteries from suppliers, and combine it with solar and wind projects that we set up. So it's a part of the hybrid solution that we are implementing.

Yes, sir. And are there any challenges in the renewable sector in point of view with the government policy?

No, there are no challenges, nothing like that.

We'll take our next question from the line of Bharanidhar from Avendus Spark.

Yes. Am I audible?

The volume is a little low.

Yes. Is it better now? I will go ahead. Okay. Just wanted to understand some operational and financial metrics on the Mundra coal and shipping line item in the cluster-wise performance slide, where we have seen a very good improvement in profitability and PAT in FY '25 versus FY '24, meaning INR 57 crores of PAT going up to INR 107 crores. So what is driving this? And some color on how much spreads we are making for units in Mundra, what would be the outlook for '26. That would be great.

If we're looking at the full year PAT, there are a couple of things there. A, suppose -- last year and this year, the plant continues to run on Section 11. Last year, one unit was down, so we were running on four units. This year, we're running all the 5 units to the extent there's better contribution coming through. And that's the key reason. And there we have one of the regulatory upside coming in for Mundra, which was pending for the last almost a decade now that we reported in the earlier quarters, almost I think INR 332-odd crores, right? So that is because of that.

Understood. So what would be the outlook for '26 in the sense regarding Section 11?

It all depends. It's too difficult for us to predict the outcome for the entire year. As of now, Section 11 has been extended for 2 months. And we are also trying to very amicably work along and then get into a revised PPA with them, with the government. So it's too early for us to kind of comment as to how '26 will look like. But we're working towards the resolution.

Understood. And some updates on the privatization of DISCOMs and where is it at? And when it is likely to be opened the bid, that will be helpful.

I think we have appointed consultant to work on the bid process for 2 DISCOMs. We are also part of it. And hopefully, would like to do something out there. But I think there's still work in progress.

We'll take our next question from the line of Atul Tiwari from JPMorgan.

Sir, again, on the pumped storage plants where you have started the work, what is the status of long-term PPAs there? Are you looking at something? And in case the PPA is not there, do you think the financial closure will be possible from financial institution side?

So pumped hydro is being developed to basically give bundled power along with solar and wind. This will be done for both the utility scale projects as well as for many of our C&I customers. This is work in progress. This will take at least 6 more months for us to get finalized so that we have a maximum value for the investment that we are making in this project. As you know that many of the companies have to go for 24/7 renewable power as well as many of the DISCOMs are wanting to do that. Pumped hydro has a unique ability to give this power 365 days for 8 hours every day. So I think we need to position it in such a way that whether industries or utilities, if they want certainty on the pumped hydro plant, they will be going for this along with the other renewable sources.

We'll take our next question from the line of Anuj Upadhyay from Investec.

Sir, firstly, on the EPC margin, excluding the rooftop segment, that still struggles to cross 5% at an EBITDA level if we see for the Q4. So the reason behind that? And secondly, your wind PLF continued to struggle to cross 20% kind of level. So what actually has been impacting the wind performance out there?

No, I think if you see the presentation that we've uploaded, I'll just take you the slide number and if you see the EBITDA margin and PAT margin, PAT margin is consistent about 5% and the EBITDA margin is beyond that, closer to 8% to 9%, and that's the targeted range we want to be in. So I think we're doing absolutely fine with respect to margins in our businesses.

So I guess the consol margin comes at around 8% to 9%, but the EPC is still in the range of 5% to 6%. I'm referring to your slides only, sir.

Yes. Our EPC business, if you look at it, we are delivering a margin close to 5%.

Yes. So I mean initially, the sense was that the EPC segment, excluding the rooftop I'm saying, could scale up a level of around 7% to 8%. So that time, we had this concern that we had orders which were at a low margin business, and we had actually executed those low-margin EPC work. So the upcoming orders would be of a healthy margin. But still, we see the margins to struggle somewhere in the range of 5% to 6% only.

I don't know which -- kind of missing your expectation. In Slide #62, for the quarter for the EPC, we delivered 5.3%. For the full year as well, we're delivering at 5% and throughout the EPC business, and I think for the last couple of years, we have said that we kind of want to maintain a margin profile of 5%. So that has been very consistent as well. And it's kind of done better than the previous year now. If you see, for the last full year, the margin was 3.3%, I very clearly remember, we said that we're targeting 5% and this year, we are delivering 5%.

Sir, I'll take this offline. And on the wind side?

On the wind side.

Wind PLF which continue to -- so these are not 20% PLF?

Yes. So see what happens is whether it is wind or solar, what we need to ensure is the ability of the plant and our ability of all these plants have been in the 99 plus range. The PLF is dependent upon the wind speed or what is the solar level. So last year, the wind speeds in many places were not very good and that is why the wind PLFs are low. But our plant capability continues to be very high in all this.

Yes. I think to be very precise. Slide #61 of the presentation has the full detail. And normally, when we look at the wind PLF, we have a zone of 19.5% to 20%, and that is what perhaps is the right zone.

Okay, sir. And lastly, sir, of the INR 1,078 crores of PAT which we have reported for Mundra, Coal and Shipment category, can you specifically mention how much was contribution from Mundra unit?

It's a combination of various things, but we can send it to you separately.

We'll take the next question from the line of Aniket Mittal from SBI Mutual Fund.

Sir, my first question is on the cell and module operations. Sir, just to understand, could you talk about what sort of realization would you be getting in the market for these external sales, both for DCR and non-DCR module sales? And secondly, sort of heading into FY '26, what sort of EBITDA margin do you think this entity can do?

See, as I mentioned to you, we are not selling these modules, DCR modules as such. A very small quantity, we sell depending upon the time lines in which it is required. Mostly, it is being used for our in-house projects or for the third-party EPC that we are executing for which we already had an order earlier with us. So to that extent, we may not be able to share what sort of price will be applicable further for the sale of just the DCR models. You can see the margins, which is there. The Q4 margin is just an indication. Going forward, it will further improve because the efficiency and the yields are improving. So you can consider much better returns and much better margins in the future quarters.

Okay. And just one bookkeeping question for your Tata Power Solar EPC arm, what's the overall order book currently?

It should be about close to INR 11,000-odd crores.

Does this includes rooftop?

Rooftop is separate. This is the large utility scale.

Okay. INR 11,000 crores and about 1,000 in rooftop, I think.

Yes.

And just to clarify on this INR 11,000 crores, how much would be external and how much would be for own Tata Power Projects?

Around INR 4,000 crores would be external and remaining would be ours.

We'll take our next question from the line of Rajesh Majumdar from B&K Securities.

So I had another question on the Odisha DISCOMs. We have seen a sharp jump in the profitability in Q4 as well as for the year for the Odisha DISCOMs. So how sustainable is this? And what would be a kind of long run kind of PAT we can assume from this? Will it be slightly lower than this? Or will it be slightly higher than this?

So Odisha DISCOMs had huge challenges because there were a lot of issues regarding billing, collection, meters. And there were also large old outstanding. We have been able to take care of all those things including ECL provisions. And what you have seen in Q4, a similar trend you will observe because the whole process has now been streamlined. And the performance in the future quarters will be consistent to what sort of performance we have seen in Q4.

Yes. And sir, related question on this. I mean, we've seen a lot of other DISCOMs also being bid by some other companies, but we've not seen the kind of success in the other DISCOMs privatization as you've seen in the case of Odisha DISCOMs. So what is going on so good for you guys that is not going on so well for the other people that is distinguishing it? Any kind of qualitative color on this?

If you come here and spend some time, we'll explain to you what we do. We can't reply that in 2 minutes. So we have to come and understand how -- what we do, and how we are unique and different than anyone else.

I think, still better, you can take a visit to Odisha. We can facilitate that.

Right. Also because you're also bidding for other DISCOMs now. Are we going to be having in the same kind of returns in UP DISCOMs as well? Because as I said, again, the peer group experience is not as great as what we've seen in the Odisha DISCOMs.

You should know that today, we are the biggest private company in distribution. And we have the sum total of all the others put together. And no one has the type of experience and domain knowledge as we have, because we have done work in urban areas as well as in rural areas. So we have a huge edge compared to anyone else.

Right, sir. And sir, my other question was a bit of a generic question for you because you've always said in the last couple of calls that the peak demand is likely to hit 270 this year. But so far, the demand trends are not suggesting anywhere near that number. So I know last year, we had a base effect kind of impact on the power demand. Is there any risk of the power demand again being in low single digits this year?

So last year, we had the peak of 250. And this year, based on the data that we have from IMD, we are expecting that it will go to 270. So it all depends. The summer has just started, and we normally have a long summer right up to October. So let us wait and watch.

The peak demand was hit in May, if I'm not mistaken, last year, and we're already in the middle of May now. That's why I ask this question.

Yes, but there have been situations where peak demand have been in July also and in October also. So it depends on how the weather condition is there. And apart from the heat, it is also the humidity, which has a huge factor on the usage of electricity. So let's wait and watch.

We'll take our next question from the line of Sumit Kishore from Axis Capital.

My first question is to Dr. Sinha. You had articulated the opportunity and keen interest that Tata Power has in the nuclear and SMR market that is likely to open up the private sector. Has there been any progress in terms of tender invited by the government for private sector participation? We were reading that there were some companies which had immense interest, has that moved forward?

So we are waiting for the change in the law, wherein the government has to amend the law and align private sector participants in nuclear power plants. Also the civil liability loss. And once we get more clarity on that, we can share with you our plan to implement the SMRs and other type of nuclear plants.

And just a follow-up question on this UP privatization. We are reading that or hearing that five circles are going to be sort of demarcated for private sector participation. So is there any condition that one private player can not take more than one or two circles or you can take more than.

We are still waiting for the bid documents. They have appointed a consulting. And what I understand by end of this month, the bid documents will come and we'll get a better clarity on that.

Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to Dr. Praveer Sinha for closing comments. Over to you, sir.

Thank you very much, and it was a pleasure interacting with all of you. If you have any further questions, you can please connect with my colleagues, Rajesh and Kasturi. And also, if some of you want to visit Odisha DISCOM, what changes we have made, what technology interventions, customer engagement and customer services that we are offering, I would request you to plan on the same. Also, at any stage, you want more data, more information, please don't hesitate to connect with us. And we will take your feedback to improve the quality of presentation and also to provide you more data, which we will help you to make your reports more objective. So once again, thank you to all for joining.

Thank you, sir. On behalf of Tata Power, that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us. You may disconnect your lines.