Thule Group AB (publ) ($THULE)

Welcome to the Thule Q1 Pre-quarter Update. [Operator Instructions] Now I will hand the conference over to the CEO and President, Mattias Ankarberg; and CFO, Toby Lawton. Please go ahead.

Thank you very much, and welcome, everybody, to this pre-quarter call. I'm Mattias, and I'm here also with our CFO, Toby Lawton, as announced. We'll do a short presentation followed by Q&A. And in the presentation, we'll cover just where we left off in Q4. We'll give you an update of the current market situation, remind you of the priorities that we have at Thule for this year, and then I'll hand over to Toby for some color on Q1 specifics. So starting off maybe on Page 2, just to recap where we left off in Q4. We had a quarter which was in the right direction at the end of the year. It's a challenging market for sure. But overall, a lot of things got better and better. If we're looking at Q4 specifically, we grew, well, 20% in total, excluding currency effect. But a lot of that was, of course, due to the acquisition we did just over a year ago. Organic growth was flat, which, of course, we're happy with, but it was a clear improvement versus Q3, small growth in Europe at the organic level and still decline in North America, but also in North America, a sort of sequential improvement over the year and not the least because we've done a lot of actions in North America during 2025. EBIT margin was up a bit in Q4. It was all of H2 despite some currency effects that were actually quite significant just for Q4 as it is a small quarter. So in the right direction for the last quarter of the year last year. And if we step back to Page 3, the long-term trend, we could see that in total, 2025 was a year that was continued in the right direction for Thule, with profitable growth continuing yet another year. Of course, a lot impacted by -- from the acquisition of Quad Lock, but the blue bars show the sales development, a boost during COVID, but except that a pretty straight line to the Northeast and the green line is the EBIT, which has also increased versus last year and the year before. So long term, moving towards a bigger and more profitable Thule. So maybe on the next page, going -- moving into some more current situation, we could start maybe with the market update. And by and large, it's very similar to what we talked about in Q4. Market situation hasn't changed much and the trends don't typically change that quickly for us. It is, in general, still a cautious market out there with cautious consumers and retailers, particularly so in North America. There are clear signs during the second half of last year that the market would improve in a positive outlook. But as we talked about in Q4, the only market segment where we see that, that has already materialized to a more positive trend is within the RV market in Europe, where the market continues to recover and where we also, for the first time in 2 years, saw growth in both the aftermarket and the OE channels. On the situation in the Middle East, we have not seen any significant short-term impact, any negative impact on consumer demand or retail behavior. Having said that, I mean, consumer sentiment research shows that consumers are concerned about not the least cost of living. And of course, if this situation would be prolonged, it could have an impact on inflation, interest levels in the general economy, which could have consequences. But so far, we have not seen any significant negative impact from the situation. We also believe that we are entering 2026 with an upgraded version of Thule, if you like. We did a lot of things in 2025 that we feel are putting us in a better position as we go into 2026. For example, we have done the biggest upgrade of, what we call, Sport&Cargo Carriers, a product group that represents for a bit more than half of the company's total sales. And we've upgraded that more than we've ever done before in 2025 with the upgrades to both mid-price and premium products across several of those subcategories. We're also entering 2026 with 3 quite new and fast-growing categories with Quad Lock being the largest, the acquired category, which grew 15% last year, and we believe has a lot of good runway for growth still in a category that's growing 10% a year. We are also growing quickly within both car seats and strollers, the actual kids assortments and also within dog products. Car seats and dog products are fairly new to us. We launched organically during 2024, so still small. But given the fast growth, starting to become meaningful in terms of making contribution to the total. So that's also nice as we go into 2026. We have a bigger digital presence as we built out Thule.com, which is now a significant channel for us in terms of launching new products. And not the least, we also are lowering cost levels, working on our efficiency ahead of 2026. And we saw that cost levels in the sort of organic business through the acquisition came down already during the second half of 2025, and the plan is for that to continue, of course, in 2026. So we cannot control the market, but we are entering the 2026 with several things that we feel are working for us. And we are focused very much on 2 big themes this year. If you followed us at the Capital Markets Day, you will remember that there are 2 main themes that are sort of the foundation of our strategy going forward. The number one, we call build bigger and more champions, which is the biggest growth priority for us. A couple of categories have contributed with 90% of the value creation historically for Thule, and we want to do more in these categories and similar categories. So we have a big launch calendar already this year, a bit less than last 2 years, but still a lot of new products coming to the market, very much focused on the existing champion categories and what we call the champion candidates. And then we are supporting that with sales and marketing efforts in both the digital channel and through other ways as well. And the second big theme in our strategy is to drive what we call efficiency gains and scale effects, where we have a lot of initiatives underway already. And you may remember that we have initiatives already launched that will drive 2.5 percentage point increase in EBIT margin over the next 3 years. And of course, some of those kick in already in 2026 and some others will come later down the road. So that's where we are, and that's how we're coming into the year. And then to give a little bit of a Thule flavor to this, more -- in a more practical and therefore, product way before handing over to Toby, have a quick launch at the -- look, sorry, at the launch calendar. And these are some of the products we're launching this year. And it is quite a big list of launches this year as well, although not as heavy as the last 2 years, clearly above history before that. And similarly to last year, we are trying to catch the spring and summer season this year. So a lot of these products are coming now in Q1 or in Q2. And as you can see, there are 3 headlines here. We are building out our champions, our global #1 market positions with both bike carriers that are now on the premium plus aspect. We are coming with Thule Epos ParkSecure parking sensors for our most premium bike carrier as well as, for example, Thule VeloLite, which is the new entry level -- entry price level bike carrier for us, it's one-bike version and several other things also in the core existing champions. We're building out the next-generation champion categories in both car seats and dog products and some more exciting things. And then we are reworking our bags category to focus more on the outdoor segment and using bags as accessories to some of our other existing products, which we also have a big belief in and which also start already in Q1. So maybe just to quickly highlight a few before I turn to Toby. We are now in Q1 launching Thule Vero, which is a North American specific products for heavier bikes, particularly e-bike that has just kicked off, and we're excited about. We are, as mentioned, launching our first ever one-bike tilt-up platform bike carrier, which is a first price or entry-level price bike carrier, at least by our standard entry level, which means we are touching a bit lower price points than we have in a while, which is complementing a lot of the premium things we have and are doing. We're also launching a new version of our entry-level roof box, again, allowing us to play in more price points in our core categories. And we are reworking bags. And I think a great example of this is what we're doing within bike computing, a trend that we believe a lot in and where we have a lot credibility as a brand coming with a very innovative system for bike commute bags called the Thule InLock system, which has already launched and had a really nice reception with retail so far here as spring is kicking in. So that's where we left off in Q4. That's the market update, and that's the priority for Thule as we move into 2026 high season about now. And before we open up for questions, I hand over to Toby for some financial color on the quarter specifically.

Thanks, Mattias. Good afternoon, everybody. And firstly, just -- I mean, just one slide to just remind everybody of the seasonality we have in Thule. So you can see here, this is the kind of the last 2 years by quarter. And you can see Q4 is the dark bar here, but you can roll forward a quarter, you can see that Q1 is a bigger quarter, but it's Q2 that is our biggest quarter. So just to put it in context. And then, yes, I think we can move on to a few things to bear in mind, just in particular, when you're looking at the first quarter. Firstly, Mattias has already talked about the market situation and organic growth. And if you're assuming something on organic growth, bear in mind that there are also the FX situation, which is going to be a headwind as well in quarter 1. And we expect the negative effect from FX headwinds on revenue to be around 7% to 8% in quarter 1. So that's still the fact that the Swedish krona is stronger versus quarter 1 last year, to keep that in mind. When it comes to gross margin, you'll remember we made some big step-up in gross margin last year. A big chunk of that was due to the acquisition of Quad Lock, which was in from the beginning of last year, but was a part of the step-up we made last year. And we also made some underlying improvements in gross margin last year as well. So we had a good step-up in gross margin last year. This year, we're trying to hold gross margin and hold those gains we made last year. There are some headwinds in terms of particularly FX impacts gross margin a bit negatively and some material cost increases, but we're trying to offset those as much as possible. But just to bear in mind that it's going to be hard to completely hold gross margin, but it won't be far away. But we -- yes, we don't expect increases in gross margin. It's more the objective to hold on as much as possible. When it comes to SG&A, we do expect SG&A, and I'm talking here in money, in SEK million. We do expect SG&A to go down versus last year. We're reducing cost versus Q1 last year. The biggest part of this is development cost, where we've also talked about, it's nothing new, but we talked about that we're reducing overall development cost in 2026 versus 2025. And we also had an early phasing of development costs last year. This year, it's still fairly early, but not as much as last year. So we will have a lower level of development cost in overall SG&A. We have some savings also in other areas, but development cost is the larger one. So a bit lower level on SG&A in quarter 1. So put that all together with gross margin holding or close to holding on and reduced SG&A, we expect to see an improvement in EBIT margin versus Q1 last year. Nothing new, like I say, these are things we talked about before, but that's what to expect. When we come lastly to cash flow, nothing strange either in cash flow, no one-off items. But just to remember that Q1 seasonally is where we increase working capital because it's ahead of the season and we're increasing inventory and customer receivables because we're supplying ahead of the season to our customers. So bear that in mind as well. So I think that's all for me, and I'll hand back to Mattias.

Thank you, Toby. And I think I'll pass it on and hand to operator to manage questions, please.

[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from Hai Huynh from UBS.

It's Hai from UBS. My first one is around the Q1 current trading so far. How would you describe demand through the first quarter given that you saw an improving exit rate towards the end of Q4? And my second question is on the -- more of the cost side for the recent disruption in oil price increase. Could you give us an idea of your exposure in terms of plastics, which is oil derivatives, for example. How are you protected in terms of contracts and hedging? And where do you see the impact coming through in Q1?

Yes, absolutely. I'll start with the demand question and then pass over to Toby to the cost update. Yes, you're right, we did see an improvement in Q4 versus earlier quarter and to your point, also better towards the end of the quarter. And we are here to grow, and we want to get to the target of 7% in midterm, as we've said, and we think it's going to be a gradual improvement to get there. I think the market is, as we talked about, starting with that side, better within RV in Europe. But besides that, it is still cautious and out there. But I think some of the things that we have done are gradually also helping the development. For example, I mean we talked about that North America has been really the weaker geography for us in '25, and we have now started to address that in spring last year with, for example, North American bike carriers, and we came with a pickup truck product here just in December '25, which now we have for the first quarter ever. So we did see a gradual improvement during the quarter, and we want to continue to see a gradual improvement towards our target going forward and see growth.

Thanks, Mattias. And I can come back, on the cost side, basically, I can say -- so for Q1, we see limited effect -- limited impact from, if you like, the current situation with the oil price and the Middle East and so on. We are -- we've secured volumes and hedged prices for our main raw materials in -- basically in Q1 and Q2 and a bit of Q3. So we -- through the kind of busy part of the season, we are relatively low level of impact. But of course, going forward, we'll have to decide how we go forward depending on how things play out from here. But you can say in -- certainly in Q1, very, very little impact.

The next question comes from Fredrik Ivarsson from ABG Sundal Collier.

Can we turn to Quad Lock for a second. I appreciate that it's been part of the group for more than a year, and you might not share all the details you did last year. But at least for me, the margin in Q4 was surprisingly strong. And I wonder if you could help us to think about the phasing of the margin into Q1. And what sort of drivers to bear in mind?

Yes. No, I mean, Quad Lock had a good margin in Q4. And Quad Lock had a good sales performance with Black Week in Q4, which also drove revenue and drove a good margin performance. Then it's important to remember, Q1 for Quad Lock is the smallest quarter. So that was the same last year as well, so that impacts profitability. But given the Quad Lock has now been in the group for more than a year, it's just like any other part of the group, we won't report Quad Lock performance separately going forward, but Quad Lock continues to grow and perform.

Okay. Fair enough. And then maybe turning to RV. You mentioned the RV market, Mattias, you grew both channels in Q4. And we hear some cautiously optimistic wordings from the manufacturers in Europe as of now. So how do we think about the channels in Q1, please?

Yes. No, I can add a little bit of color there, I think, Toby, feel free to add as well. But I think exactly to your point, Fredrik, maybe just to set the theme for everybody, RV is about 15% of Thule sales, and it's almost entirely European business for us, which I think is a good reminder for everybody. I think the market segments could be a bit different across geographies within the RV world as we speak. But for us, it's in Europe. We sell about 50% of our sales to OEs, to vehicle manufacturers and about 50% to dealers or aftermarket. And if we look back at the last couple of years, 2 years or so, it's actually been pretty good interest on the consumer side with vehicle registrations, fair visits and aftermarket sales has not been too bad, quite discount driven, but there's been a lot of vehicles post-COVID and maybe even some false starts in terms of when people thought that demand would pick up. So there's been too much volume on the parking lots to say the least, which has led OEs to take production downtime for, well, what is it, at least 4 quarters, maybe more last year. And I think Q4 was the first quarter in 2 years where we saw an increase in both the aftermarket channel and in the OE channel. And the OE growth was due to the fact that there are fewer production stops now. So there is still not all the OEs are running at sort of typical or high capacity in our view, but better. And we expect that to continue also in 2026. So there should be better OE volumes coming out of the market, which means better Thule sales to OE within RV in Europe in Q1 and hopefully going forward also as well and continued growth in the aftermarket channel as well.

Great. And last one from my side. You mentioned of the racks for the pickup trucks in the U.S. Is that going to add sort of meaningful incremental growth? Or is it too small as of now?

So I guess I should qualify that for the U.S. is about 20% of the total Thule sales. And of course, today, I mean, racks is a small part of that. But it's an area where we haven't launched any new products for 10 years, I believe, maybe even a little longer. So it's -- and we know that about 25% of all Thule North American consumers drive pickup trucks. So it's a sizable opportunity for us. It hopefully moves the needle a bit for the U.S. numbers, but since the U.S. is only 1/5 of the total Thule, it won't have sort of a significant impact for the total in the first quarter. But we believe that with this strategy of not just having global product portfolio, but also regional and in this case, North American specific, where there are significant pockets to go after like North American pickup trucks, we can, over time, build up a significant sales. And it's nice to see that it's starting to move the right direction immediately after we launch the product.

The next question comes from Agnieszka Vilela from Nordea.

I have a couple of questions. Maybe starting with pricing. Can you quantify the price increases that you implemented in 2026? Also, do you plan to raise the prices further to compensate for the raw material impact? And maybe if you have seen any reaction from the customers so far on your price increases?

Yes, I think. So we have increased prices the way Thule typically does. As of Jan 1, low single digit between 1% and 2%, depending a little bit of market and product, of course, and variances, but not a lot. On top of that, we have new products, of course, that some of which some have higher price points like the bike barrier with parking sensors or some actually lower price points, which we threw into the mix now. But on the sort of comparable products, it's 1% to 2% price increase for 2026. And that has been the Thule history largely of having low single-digit price increases. There are 2 major exceptions over the last decade, I would say. One was during COVID and the other one was in North America, specifically in last year in June to compensate for the tariffs that we could not compensate in other ways. So I think we have not as of yet planned to do any new price increases to compensate for anything related to oil prices or anything similar. So having said that, I think it's clear that with this strategy of having a product categories where we are clear global #1 and own manufacturing, we do have pricing power. And we do know that even if we raise prices, we still sell really well in premium, but we would prefer to play with more price points now and to, of course, go after volume if we can. So modest price increases coming into the year, nothing else planned, but we still have the option to act differently if we would come to that situation.

Understood. And then is it fair to assume that you should return to organic growth already in Q1 with having this kind of price increases now with you and talking about the new product launches probably supporting volumes, what do you think?

I'm not sure I heard exactly, but I think it was on the -- the question was around organic growth in Q1, I think of course...

Yes.

Yes, we never really give any guidance in that sense. But I think our commentary has been that we did see quarter-on-quarter improvement last year and also ending the quarter better than we started. And we have been, I think, clear that we think we can get to 7% organic growth in the midterm, which is 2 to 4 years, and we should see a gradual improvement towards that. So yes, we expect from 2026 that this will be organic growth and EBIT margin improvement. And then, of course, we never know what's going to happen in the market, wars happen on short notice and other shocks that happen. But right now, we don't see any other direction than what we have communicated earlier.

Great. Great. And then last question really for me on the entry-level products. Can you tell us like how you think about profitability level for those products? And also if you see any risk of cannibalizing your own premium products?

Yes, absolutely. Good questions, both. So let's see, first one was around profitability. Profitability is largely similar across the different product segments. We might make a little bit more on the very premium things, but it's not a very big difference, actually small because the products are also spec differently, and we become increasingly good in these, by our standards, big categories to use the same components and same manufacturing lines, et cetera, so we can get scale effects from just adding more products. So profitability is similar across the portfolio. There is, for sure, a little bit of risk of cannibalization and pricing is an art and the science, and it's important that we develop products with different specifications that we can clearly argue versus the consumer that there are different use cases and you should be able to pay a premium if you go from sort of entry to mid or from mid to premium. But I think another way to look at it is in the premium segments, Thule typically has very little competition. We are fortunate to be making some of the best products that sets us apart. But on these lower price points, there is competition. So if we are not potentially cannibalizing ourselves, someone else might do it. So it's -- these lower price points are both playing a bit of offense to get some volume, but also playing a bit of defense to make sure that we sort of plug some holes in the market for us. It has also the nice benefit of -- in terms of pricing that we have more products to play with when it comes to price positions if we need to take actions on pricing going forward.

The next question comes from Adela Dashian from Jefferies.

I just had a quick question regarding if you could shed some light on what the normalized contribution of RVs are if you exclude the weakness and the pandemic buildup of bike in Q1?

You were breaking up a bit. Could you repeat the question, please?

Just what the normalized contribution of the RV segment should be in the quarter, if you exclude all the weakness and also the pandemic type of bike products?

Right. I think RV has been -- how to put a normalized, this is a long time ago. But Toby, maybe you want to...

I would say -- I mean, in share of revenue of the group, I don't have Q1 last year in front of me, Adela. But I mean, that it's -- you could say RV share of sales for the group should be similar to what it was in the first quarter last year. No big change.

Okay. Okay. And then maybe secondly, on just, I guess, I understand, obviously, that you don't have a direct impact to what's happening in the Middle East. But at the same time, have you started to see maybe in the more recent weeks and now I'm pointing more towards Q2 that your customers are starting to behave differently? Or is there truly stable demand patterns?

Well, I guess, the facts so far show that there is no weakness in demand from either the direct channels that we have to consumers or the customers that we are talking to. But -- so that's sort of where we are in terms of just hard facts. I mean having said that, of course, everybody that we're talking to that are important retailers and wholesale partners out there is monitoring the situation carefully. I mean, if this would continue, of course, there could be disruptions to supply chains. There could be cost increases and there could be, which I think is probably the bigger point for us in that case, impact on the consumer demand because of economic reasons. So, so far, no. But of course, we have a lot of respect for the consequence that it could have and so does our partners.

The next question comes from Mats Liss from Kepler Cheuvreux.

Just a follow-up there. I guess, it's -- I mean, things have happened quite quickly here in the Middle East. And I mean, the lead times are maybe a bit short for you. But do you see a risk there that retailers and so on have built inventories now? And well, there is a risk that they won't be able to get demand they like from consumers? Or is there another thing that could maybe help demand that customers -- well, consumers prefer domestic holidays and more like during the pandemic maybe. I mean there are a lot of question marks there. But could you say something about that?

Yes, absolutely. We'll try to comment on all of those points. And then please remind me if forget something. But I think, first of all, in terms of retailer sort of inventory levels, we haven't seen much change. I mean the general direction for the last more than a year, maybe 2 is that retailers hold less inventory, more cautious on inventory, working capital costs money. And we continue to deliver smaller quantities, more frequent deliveries, but that's not new. That's been going on for, well, I'd say, almost 2 years now, maybe more actually. So that continues. I think in terms of deliveries, we, Thule, does not ship things so much through the impacted areas. We produce most of what we sell in our own factories close to our customers. Of course, we source components and some products from Asia, but that's typically around sort of the Cape more than through the geographies impacted by the war. So that's also okay for now. There is, to your last point, a little bit of speculation in the outdoor industry and the likes that could this be a situation where people maybe do less long-distance travel, it's expensive. We've seen some flight tickets go up, some flight operators canceling a lot of destinations and routes where people spend more time close to their homes and in their home countries, which would be potentially good for companies like Thule in that case. So that's -- there is some speculations around that. But I guess, for us, it's way too early to tell. High season kicks in about now. So -- and I guess the war, of course, we will all follow and see the consequences of. But I guess that's just one of those things that we will have to monitor quickly and see how things develop.

Great. Yes. And just -- I mean, you have this upgraded offering and a lot of new products upgraded. And I mean, could you -- well, do you expect some sort of replacement demand also? I mean you had the peak sales there 4 years ago. And now you mentioned that in bike carriers, you have this new more of quality or able to carry more weight. How do you see that? Or do you need to find new customers in those segments?

A bit of both. I think on the one hand, we always see when we have great new products, particularly on the premium end that we do see those customers who always want the best. And there is usually a pretty good marketplace for used to the products that can be passed on or sold or given to somebody else in your family, maybe or a friend. So there's always that drive. And then I mean, some of what we're launching also this year is partly addressing new price points, which should be a little bit of a net add for us. So that's, I think, also good. And then, I mean, lastly, for sure, there was a lot of product in the market after COVID and super hard to keep track on the exact volumes in the secondhand markets, but we can do it a little bit through some people we are talking to and some partners, but also to monitor, for example, things like spare parts in our own sales and have a look at that. And I think there are some pockets or some areas where there's maybe a bit too much demand still. But by and large, we should be through that situation now. So for sort of practical purposes or sort of big picture, the consumer demand should set the scene for what is possible to sell. And we think we are coming with lots of great products that are upgrades, lots of great products that address new price points. And then let's not forget, we have new categories that we are expanding and bringing to the market, which is also net growth for us. So we feel we have quite a few things that is working and set up well for 2026 for us.

The next question comes from Daniel Schmidt from Danske Bank.

Yes. I think most of the stuff that I wanted to ask has been asked. But on -- maybe on Quad Lock, and I do appreciate and realize that that's part of now the sort of structural reporting that you have between the categories and this is Bags & Mounts. But you were playing down quite a lot any potential distribution synergies or product synergies between Quad Lock and Thule when you bought it, you haven't talked so much about it in 2025. You have now owned it for 15 months. And is there anything that you could say about that going into '26 now that you've had it in your portfolio for more than a year. And I seen that you have come with one product at least that has been a collaboration between you and the legacy business. Is there more to come there? Or what's your stance on that?

Yes. Daniel, yes, no. But I think, first of all, I think we should say that Quad Lock is a business we're really pleased with and a category that is sort of growing at 10% a year historically and which we expect to do so for quite some time. And remember, this category was pretty much invented by 2 gentlemen that founded Quad Lock 15 years ago. So quite some runway compared to some other categories that's been within the Thule business. So there's lots of growth opportunity to go after with new products and increased market penetration sort of for Quad Lock stand-alone. Having said that, of course, we're happy to be boosting it a bit, if we can. And you're right, we haven't really -- that hasn't been the first priority in the first year. There's been lots of other integration activities that's gone well. We have started to develop some co-branded products, testing out the waters a bit with bags in Quad Lock with Thule branded, which we just launched one product here in -- I believe it was early March, maybe it was even February. So that's a good start, and you will, for sure, see more of that. And I think then the other big opportunity to boost the Quad Lock business is -- I mean Quad Lock comes from a D2C situation. But of course, there are retailers, bricks-and-mortar retailers that some that are sell a product, but more that could sell a product around the world. And here, Thule has some really strong partnerships over many years. And we have, for sure, been working on that in 2025 to open some doors and have some good discussions with what we believe are some of the best retail partners, both in Europe and North America to bring Quad Lock product into the physical brick-and-mortar stores. So you will see some of that in '26. I will not reveal the names as these are sort of final stages now ahead of high season, but that is something that also will support the top line for the mounts part of Thule or the Quad Lock business.

Yes. Okay. That's interesting. And there was basically nothing of that in '25 or very little. It was more sort of an integration year, and now you can look forward a bit and you will see some of those discussions being realized in sort of listings on offline retailers simply.

That's correct.

Okay. Cool. Actually, just for reference, I think you said in the Q4 reporting that RV is maybe 20% of sales normally in Q1, at least that's my recollection.

Yes. No, I think that's right, about 50% for the full year, it's around there.

[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from Johan Eliason from SB1 Markets.

Mattias and Toby, just a minor follow-up here. I believe your Polish CapEx will sort of peak in 2026. How will that pan out over the quarters in general?

Yes, Johan, yes, so our Polish CapEx, which is the CapEx in the new automated distribution center next to our biggest factory in Poland. And '26 is the biggest year, around 55% of the total CapEx -- the total CapEx is SEK 450 million, about 55% of that will come in '26. And we actually expect it to be pretty evenly spread, Johan, between the quarters. So you can -- yes, you can assume it's evenly spread.

There are no more questions at this time. So I hand the conference back to the speakers for any closing comments.

Thank you very much, everybody, for joining, and look forward to speaking to you again at the Q1 conference call, if not before. Enjoy the rest of our day.