Tidewater Midstream and Infrastructure Ltd. (TWM) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by, and welcome to the Tidewater Midstream and Infrastructure Ltd. Annual General Meeting. [Operator Instructions] Please be advised today's conference is being recorded. [Operator Instructions] I would like to hand the conference over to Joel MacLeod, Chairman and CEO. Sir, you may begin.

Thank you. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to our AGM and Special Meeting of the Shareholders of Tidewater Midstream and Infrastructure. My name is Joel MacLeod, and I'm the CEO and Chairman of the corporation, and I will be the chairman for this meeting. In terms of our agenda today, we will deal first with the formal business of our AGM, as described in the proxy materials that were sent to shareholders. Following the formal part of our meeting, I will open the floor and the phone line, and I would be pleased to answer any questions you may have. The presentation I will review following the formal business of the meeting is contained on our website. So if you are on the phone line, you can take this time to access it now. The meeting will now come to order, and I shall ask David Barva, Chief Legal Officer and Executive Vice President, Shared Services, of the corporation, to act as secretary of the meeting; and Patricia Selby of TSX Trust Company to act as scrutineer of the meeting. I shall now request the secretary to table proof of delivery of the notice of meeting, instrument of proxy, management information circular and accompanying documents to the registered shareholders of the corporation. Proof of mailing of the notice calling the meeting and accompanying documents has been duly filed, and I direct a copy of the notice with proof of delivery to be kept by the secretary with the records of this meeting. I would like to take a moment to discuss the voting procedures. Unless the ballot is requested in respect of any particular matter, the voting will be conducted on a show of hands. We will have a ballot on certain matters to properly document the voting at the meeting. If you are a registered shareholder and have not received a ballot, please let us know, just put your hand up, and the scrutineer will provide to a ballot of completion. Any shareholder or proxy holder wishing to speak is requested to stand and when recognized by the chair, provide his or her name before addressing the meeting. Any shareholder who is on the phone line, please hold your questions until the end of the meeting when we open the phone line for questions. The bylaws of the corporation provide that a quorum of shareholders is present at a meeting of shareholders if at least 2 holders of not less than 25% of the shares entitled to vote at a meeting of shareholders are present in person or by proxy. I have received the scrutineer's report showing that there are in attendance at this meeting, in person or by proxy, 120 shareholders holding 217,907,738 common shares. Accordingly, the total representation at this meeting by shareholders present in person and by proxy is 63.79% of the common shares of the corporation. Therefore, I declare that there is a quorum present at this meeting. I now declare that the meeting is regularly called and properly constituted for the transaction of business. The first item of business -- of this meeting is to receive and consider the audited financial statements of the corporation for the year ended December 31, 2019, and the report of the auditor thereon. And I shall ask the secretary of the meeting to present these financial statements to the meeting. Copies of the financial statements and the report of the auditor thereon have been mailed to each registered shareholder, and they have an opportunity to review these documents, so I shall request a resolution dispensing with the reading of the auditor's report.

I move that the reading of the report of the auditor on the financial statements be dispensed.

I second the motion.

All those in favor signify in the usual manner by raising the right hand. [Voting]

Thank you. Opposed? [Voting]

The motion is carried. The next item of business is the fixing of the size of the Board of Directors to be elected at the meeting. For the forthcoming year, it is proposed that the Board of Directors to be elected at the meeting shall consist of 7 members. I shall now request a motion to fix the Board of Directors at 7 members.

I move that the Board of Directors of the corporation to be elected at the meeting be fixed at 7 members.

I second.

All those in favor signify in the usual manner by raising the right hand. [Voting]

Thank you. Opposed? [Voting]

The motion is carried. We will now proceed with the election of directors. Seven directors will be elected at this time to hold office until the next annual meeting or until their successors are elected or appointed.

I nominate the following individuals as directors of the corporation to hold office until the next annual election of directors or until their successors are elected or appointed subject to the provisions of the Business Corporations Act and the bylaws of the corporation: Joel MacLeod, Stephen Holyoake, Doug Fraser, Greta Raymond, Robert Colcleugh, Michael Salamon, Neil McCarron.

I second the motion.

Are there any further nominations? I now declare the nominations closed. We have requested that the scrutineers distribute ballots for this matter. I have received the report on the ballot from the scrutineer, and I declare that the motion has been passed. The next item of business is the appointment of the auditors of the corporation. The information circular and the instrument of proxy prepared for the purposes of this meeting contemplated the reappointment of Deloitte LLP Chartered Accountants as auditor. Could we have a motion with regard to the reappointment of the auditor until the next annual meeting and could this motion provide that the auditor's remuneration be fixed by the Board of Directors?

I move that Deloitte LLP Chartered Accountants be appointed as auditor of the corporation until the next annual meeting or until a successor is appointed and that Deloitte's remuneration be fixed by the Board of Directors.

I second.

All those in favor, again, signify in the usual manner by raising the right hand. [Voting]

Thank you. Opposed? [Voting]

The motion is carried. The next item of business is to approve and adopt the ordinary resolution in relation to the approval of the unallocated stock options under the corporation stock option plan.

I move that the resolution, as more particularly set forth in the information circular prepared for the purpose of the meeting relating to the approval of the unallocated stock options under the corporation's stock option plan be approved and adopted.

I second the motion.

In order to record accurately the voting results of this resolution, it is necessary to conduct a vote on this resolution by ballot. I have received the report on the ballot from the scrutineer, and I declare that the ordinary resolution of shareholders regarding the approval of the unallocated options under the corporation's stock option plan has been duly passed. If any shareholder is interested in the exact number of votes cast in favor of and against any resolution, particulars may be obtained from the secretary of this meeting. The next item of business is the advisory nonbinding shareholder vote on the corporation's approach to executive compensation.

I move on an advisory vote only that the shareholders of the corporation accept the corporation's approach to executive compensation as disclosed in the information circular.

I second.

All those in favor, again, signifying the usual manner by raising the right hand. [Voting]

Thank you. Opposed? [Voting]

The motion is carried. If there is no further business to be brought before the meeting, I would ask for a motion to terminate the meeting.

I'll move to terminate the meeting.

I'll second the motion.

All those in favor? [Voting]

Thank you. Opposed? [Voting]

The motion is carried. I declare the meeting terminated. Well, thank you, everyone. We really want to thank all our shareholders, our staff, partners, including our credit syndicate members for all your support through COVID through 2019 into 2020 and moving forward. We also want to have a special welcome for Michael and Neil, our 2 new Board members. We're excited to have Birch Hill on our Board and to have their support means a lot to us as we look to continue to focus on per share growth. Having one of the most respected mid-market private equity partners with an impressive track record on returns for their partners and shareholders is a huge benefit to Tidewater and our shareholders. With that, we will -- I'll do a brief presentation here, and then we'll open it up to questions if anyone has any questions. But we'll just kick off here kind of a brief presentation, give everyone an update on operations and how things are going. Our presentation is on our website for those of you who are sitting at a computer who have access to the Internet. If not, it will be fine. We'll be able to walk you through without having the presentation. But if you'd like to follow along, feel free to jump on to our website, and we will run you through the presentation. So to start, I think we will just want to relay the importance of safety. I know we've been asked as far as the COVID update. We have an incredible COVID Committee, who's done an incredible job. We've had no cases within Tidewater, and I think it's a big credit to our COVID Committee and do want to thank all of them for our shareholders who are wondering kind of how Tidewater is handling the situation. Some of us have been in the office through the entire process. We have not been pushing staff to come into the office, but we do consider ourselves a high-performing enterprise and great to have the majority of our team and, definitely, our field staff really operating as normal. So just want our shareholders to know everything is running incredibly well. We haven't had any cases, and we really appreciate all their support. The other key component, I think, just to kick off would be as far as guidance. How are we doing? How is the outlook? We want to continue to reiterate our guidance as we here are wrapping up for Q2, just continue to reiterate the guidance of $175 million to $185 million of EBITDA, and that 3x to 3.5x debt-to-EBITDA into the year-end of 2020. Great to see our assets performing well and as we look into 2021 and even Q4 of 2020 here, we are starting to get quite excited with what we're seeing. We don't want to get ahead of ourselves but nice to see our assets performing very well and excited to look into Q3, Q4 and even early 2021. And we are getting comfort that we can likely deliver kind of 15% per share EBITDA growth into 2021. Again, we do not want to get ahead of ourselves, but our contracts, customers, assets are running very well, and it's a big credit to our team. And just want to give our shareholders comfort that the outlook is fairly bright, but again, do not want to get ahead of ourselves here. So maybe as we jump into the presentation here, number -- Page #4 is our disposition of our pipeline, which we announced the execution of the definitive agreement here a week or so ago. And again, I wanted to thank our team. It's a big transaction for us and wanted to let everyone know that it remains on track, on schedule, and we do expect to close by the end of the year and bring in that $138 million and help us achieve our net debt to adjusted EBITDA target of 3x to 3.5x into the end of 2020. The transaction itself, it is a little sad to see one of our greatest assets moving on. But at the same time, it's 30% accretive to net income per share and about 15% accretion on EBITDA per share, and timing couldn't be better. And we also do see some significant opportunities moving forward. Obviously, the focus of that $138 million will be to deleverage and get us back down in that 2.5x debt-to-EBITDA range, but do want our shareholders to know that we are working through capital projects, higher rate of return capital projects, fairly small chunks of capital, but do have a significant inventory and do feel we can deliver growth into 2021 and 2022 even in a challenging environment. Slide 5, just turning the page. Our network, I think most of you are aware of our network. Our focus has moved towards the Montney between our Pipestone Gas Plant and our Prince George Refinery. At the same time, really pushing to help our customers and our value chain has been a big lever for us to help our customers and drive business our way, focused on strengthening those customers and contracts to have roughly 50% of our EBITDA/cash flow from investment-grade counterparties has been a huge step for us. We haven't seen any material write-offs or any of our customers going through bankruptcy. So great to have those strong customers continue to focus on those customers and contracts. And overall business continues to go well. Again, reiterate our leverage target of 2.5 to 3x. And we do feel today that we can achieve that in roughly 12 months or so here from today. So business is performing well. Our contracts and customers are remaining resilient through this, and I think the shareholders should have a lot of comfort about the business and looking into the end of 2020 and into 2021. Slide 6. A little bit of a repetition to what we just talked about in Slide 5, but it is important to us, our customers, our counterparties. We get significant number of questions. We've had a lot of questions through COVID and continue to be the cornerstone of our company, both our customers and our contracts. So again, roughly 50% of our EBITDA from investment grade, and then approximately 75% of our EBITDA is under long-term contracts commitments. That does include our Prince George offtake with Husky, which is a 5-year agreement. I want to be clear that, that contract isn't your typical take-or-pay infrastructure contract, but it definitely has take-or-pay components related to volume and price and has been a key contract for us. And we have seen demand at the refinery pick up materially into mid-May. And definitely through the last 3, 4, 5 weeks, we've seen demand effectively get back to normal, which has been great to see. And overall, even Pipestone, we'll get into it, also performing extremely well. So just great to see minimal impact. It was tough. Q1 and Q2 was the first time we had a guidance revision in Tidewater history and we'll admit it, it was tough on us, the team, to have to revise guidance due to COVID. But now that we're through Q1 and Q2, with a year being the end of June, we do feel like things are getting back to normal. And as we look into Q3, Q4 and 2021, I think our shareholders will be happy with what we can deliver, barring any major surprises, but nice to have those strong customers and contracts and remain resilient through, which has been a challenging time for a lot of our customers. Slide 7 gets into the numbers, kind of displays our growth here over the last 5 years. That 31% 5-year adjusted EBITDA per share CAGR is something we are pretty proud of. And then as we look into 2021, I kind of touched on it, we do continue to see growth. And -- but our real focus is delevering into the end 2020, 3x to 3.5x. And then into 2021, we do feel we can achieve and get back into that 2.5x to 3x range. So again, nice to see the business performing well and do feel these targets and targets into 2021 in moving our leverage down, but also having roughly 15% per share growth is achievable. Slide 8. We get into the netbacks, the value chain, which has really been the cornerstone of our company, how to improve our customer netbacks. We started with propane and NGLs as we had a crude oil noncompete when we started Tidewater. Now to no longer have our crude noncompete, to have gas storage, we have some incredible pieces in our value chain that we want to continue to add. We have even added a gas storage, 5-plus investment-grade counterparties with LNG Canada. LNG moving forward, Coastal GasLink to have gas storage and also refinery offsetting a lot of that. Those big capital projects is pretty exciting for us, even around 2020 in the near term, but also in the long term here over the next 3 to 4 years. Slide 9 kind of gets into our time line. I don't think we necessarily today need to go through all our transactions. I think most of you are aware of those. What we would want to reiterate is, I know you look at this and you see, "Holy, Tidewater team is awful busy." We continue to work hard, but we've kind of moved towards looking inward as bringing our debt down on our balance sheet, has been our focus here over the last 6 months. And we've found some significant opportunities. They are all fairly small, but it's the first time really in Tidewater's history that we've had to optimize, reduce costs and even increase revenues but not deploy material amounts of capital. This slide is more focused on where we deployed our capital and just want our shareholders to know we have continued to dig deep here in the last 3 to 6 months, and we found some great wins and opportunities. And I think you'll start to see the fruits of those opportunities into Q4, a little bit into Q3 and then definitely into 2021. But we are starting to build a significant inventory of sub-24-month payout projects, which will help bring our leverage down. At the same time, we're going to do those capital projects or execute them on fairly slowly and don't expect any large capital projects here in the near term as the focus -- the feedback from shareholders, the market has been focused on deleveraging, get the Pioneer Pipeline sale closed, but we are, and I'll get into it chipping away on a few $1 million, $2 million, $3 million types of project that projects at sub-24-month payouts and then building an inventory of some larger projects that could potentially achieve also those sub-24-month payouts. Slide 10 is our Prince George Refinery. So I'll just walk you through some of the pieces that we've been working on. When COVID hit their March and into April to see the demand come off, it was a little concerning to start. But as of I'd say, early May, we've seen demand come back. And definitely the last 3, 4, 5 weeks, we've seen significant improvement in demand and even what we consider back to normal and on certain days, even a little ahead of what we would have anticipated. A big driver of that would be those large capital projects that are right in our backyard from Site C dam being a $10 billion-plus project to LNG Canada continuing to progress. Coastal GasLink, there's definitely activity there. And even TransMountain construction on the B.C. side of the border has commenced. So great to see direct impact from there and real happy with the volumes. Our team has done an incredible job on throughput. Even those of you that watch the rack prices at Prince George, which are publicly available, you will see gasoline prices are above diesel prices at Prince George, just slightly. And the refinery, our team, our downstream team has done a great job of finding ways to produce incremental gasoline here over the last few weeks. And we're continuing to push that and continue with limited capital, but more optimization here into Q3, Q4 and Q1. And we continue to find some great optimization opportunities. If there's time, we can get into some of those details. But nice to have multiple processing units where we're just trying to get that incremental 2%, 3%, 4%, 5% out of the related assets. Our FCC unit and our isomerization unit would both be great examples where we've been able to get more gasoline product coming off of those units, and a big credit to the team and do appreciate all their efforts. I know crack spreads are very topical and have been prior to us doing the acquisition and our due diligence. And then from November 1, when we closed forward, our crack spreads aren't heavily outperforming. They're not, but they definitely haven't broken through what we consider the floor. So to have $45 to $50 crack spreads has been huge for us. And then to see the volumes and the related demand really ramp up here end of May, but really into June is quite exciting for us as we look into Q3 and Q4. And the refinery is definitely performing extremely well here over the past month or so. Slide 11, again, covers the refinery. I think we've maybe talked enough about the refinery. Components, I think maybe just a few higher level pieces for shareholders. One would be we continue to see the resiliency of the diesel and gasoline prices at Prince George. We continue to see the pricing of both diesel and gasoline be top decile for all in North America. So for us to have some of the cheapest crude on the planet and even North America, accompanied with some of the highest priced refined product in the diesel and gasoline market in Western Canada. Long term, we think, it's a huge opportunity for us. And as most of you know, the ability for a competing refinery to come into service in British Columbia in a short period of time is highly, highly unlikely. We even saw a petrochemical project that was proposed around Prince George not get -- receive their related approvals. Did it -- would have impacted us directly? No. But I think just for our shareholders to know the barriers to entry to build a competing refinery right in our backyard in British Columbia will be extremely tough. And at the same time, the B.C. government has been very supportive of us. We're one of the largest generators of low-carbon fuel standard credits in British Columbia. Our team out there has been receiving those credits for 10-plus years, and we've been submitting some incremental projects that we're interested to see if we get approval. And to have government support, government funding related to those projects can be extremely helpful. And I think for our shareholders to be aware that some of those could come to fruition here in the next 6, 12, 24 months. It's pretty exciting to have that support from the B.C. government. Federal government is even having some discussions. We never want to rely on that or get ahead of ourselves again, but nice for me for the first time to have what feels like genuine interest from -- at the provincial and federal level to support some of our projects, and some of them have a green spin to them as well. But just want our shareholders to know, Prince George is performing very well and government remains supportive of continuing to provide low carbon fuel standard credits for the refinery and Tidewater as a whole. Slide 12, Montney, so Pipestone gas plant. We -- again, it came online there mid-September 2019. Obviously, the third-party infrastructure delays did hurt us and hurt us into Q1, but to see how well the asset has performed from April, even March onward, public data information is available to show our throughputs, to have our throughputs up near that 80 million, 85 million a day range, to be fully contracted an asset that's coming into its own. And I think our shareholders will be happy. It is definitely performing where we thought it should be now. Did it take a little longer than we thought? Was some of it out of our control? Yes. But I think for our shareholders to know that the assets performing, delivering the cash flow now that we anticipated. Yes, it took a little longer than we thought, but do want our shareholders to know that things are going very well at Pipestone. Our cash flow is there, and it remains an interesting area. Drilling activity, obviously, is not anything like it was, but we are even seeing Charlie Lake activity. But Montney obviously remains the focus, and our gas storage facility there continues to perform extremely well. The gas plant is running extremely well. We do not expect any incremental capital. There was some chatter in the market, I'd say, in Q4 that we may need incremental capital at Pipestone for it to run. That's not the case. Things are running very well and really want to thank our entire Pipestone team for all their efforts. Slide 13, again, kind of jumps in to the Montney. Plant's running well. Our gas storage is seeing record injections, which is great to see, especially with the potential for LNG to move forward. There's no agreements in place today to connect any related LNG pipelines, but there's definitely discussions, which is pretty exciting for us. And then as we work through kind of our NGL molecules, our ethane, our propane, our butane and our condensate, great to be able to offer premiums on products. And to see our team execute on that has been great to see. So I think, in general, Pipestone, yes, we started out maybe a little behind the 8 ball, especially with some third party infrastructure being delayed but today, performing well. And I think our shareholders will be happy with what they see Q3, Q4 and even in Q2 here. Slide 14 jumps into the Deep Basin. Our core Deep Basin-Pioneer pipeline. Again, we don't want our shareholders to think we'll no longer be involved with TC Energy or TransAlta as a result of the Pioneer pipeline sale. TransAlta, TC are both becoming incredible partners, and we do see opportunities to actually work more with them, which is quite exciting for us. So activity, we would have -- has come off. Gas prices to us being relatively high has also helped with throughput. But in general, we would say Deep Basin's kind of slow and steady. Our frac though would be the one piece that remains near capacity, fully contracted. And then the driver -- the growth in the area, we do feel Tidewater helping provide TransAlta more volumes. At Sundance and Keephills it is a considerable lever for us and then also working to interconnect and create more connectivity in the area. But overall, the basin is steady. Slide 15 would be our Edmonton area, definitely not a large portion of our cash flow or EBITDA today other than the Pioneer portion there in the bottom left, but it is a growth engine for us long term. The amount of land we own in the area in 600-ish acres of land, the amount of interest we continue to have from -- we didn't talk about it at Prince George but with the move down in crude, a lot of inbound interest at Prince George and Acheson on crude tank build-outs. Again, today, our focus is deleveraging. But over the next 12, 24, 36 months, building out Acheson and Edmonton is definitely something we're going to consider and improving that connectivity and an asset long term that I think our shareholders should be pretty excited about. Slide 16, we get into ESG component. So a lot of effort has been put in here. We've assigned a committee. Greta on our Board has been extremely helpful and supportive with her background with Petro-Canada. The team has done an incredible job. You'll see also on our website, for those of you that aren't aware, we have added a significant amount of information. I'll just run you through some of the highlights of that new information that we've put up related to ESG metrics. We've got an environmental component, a greenhouse gas emissions component, energy, water, spills and releases, a health and safety component, where we've got an unbelievable record, especially with the amount of folks that we're working on our 2 large capital projects there in 2019, 2020. We've got a people component, contribution to society, financial strength, governance and then even starting to set some targets. So a big effort there from the entire team and really appreciate Greta's support and the team's efforts there. But happy to -- feel free to reach out if anyone would like to have any questions. We've even had 1 or 2 institutional shareholders ask us to walk them through our ESG targets, and those conversations have gone extremely well, us being one of the largest generators of low-carbon fuel standard credits in BC is a significant win for us. And then also our pipeline to TransAlta being involved in one of the largest coal-to-gas conversions that I'm aware of has also been a key piece and a big win for us. Maybe just the last slide here, and then we can open it up to questions would be Slide 18. So again, we want to reiterate guidance, very comfortable in achieving our $175 million to $185 million of EBITDA at 3x to 3.5x debt-to-EBITDA into the end of the year. And then into 2021, things are feeling fairly strong right now and do feel we can continue to deliver that adjusted growth and bring our debt down to that 2.5 to 3x range in roughly 12 months. The one big piece, I think, that is a change over the last 2, 3 years is insider ownership. A big chunk of that would be Birch Hill. And again, we really appreciate them for their support. But insiders, including myself and other management team and Board members, you'll see have also been adding. And I think for shareholders, that's great to see in tough times to continue to see our insider ownership increase. We're very happy with the assets we've put together. And I know it's a little sad to see Pioneer sell, but to sell it at a multiple of 14-plus, some would say closer to 20-plus times the value we have in the infrastructure and even the amount of infrastructure capital from private equity and other groups. We have assets that are extremely difficult to replicate, and our shareholders should be real proud and happy with what we've been able to build and the related customers and contracts. But we're not going to take our foot off the gas. We want to assure as well we're going to continue to strengthen our infrastructure, our customers and contracts. But for the next 6 or so months, our real focus will be on getting back down into that 2.5 to 3x debt-to-EBITDA range and continuing to grow the company. But with that, maybe Mr. Vorra, our CFO, sitting beside me, I'm sure I missed 1 or 2 pieces there. Is there anything you want to add before we open it up in the questions? And if not, no worries.

No, I think it was a pretty good summary focused on deleveraging, obviously. And just nice to see the large capital program through 2019 being complete and then seeing the assets run the way we had always envisioned them. So that's, I think, a big vote of confidence to the team. And then thanks also to our staff for a relatively seamless transition to working from home and in some cases, working back at the office. And then thanks to our shareholders, too, through a pretty bumpy and volatile time in the overall macroeconomic environment and energy in general. So I think just a big thank you to everybody. But now, I think as far as operational update for the company, good job, Joel. I think you hit on everything.

Well, thank you with that. I'm not sure if we need to go to our leader on the call to open up the call. But if not, we'd like to open it up for questions, and feel free to speak up. If you have any tough questions at the same time, feel free to reach out to us directly, if you prefer to do that. And again, thanks to all shareholders, for all your support.

[Operator Instructions] We do have a question, and that will come from the line of Curtis Jensen with Robotti & Company.

Can you hear me okay?

Yes, loud and clear.

I've got a few quick ones, if I might. And I guess the first one is there's some mention in the circular about a process for adding a third new director, and I was just curious with the status of that process and whether that person will have specific industry experience?

Yes, Curtis, Birch Hill has been involved, Michael and Neil, and we've really enjoyed the process. We've interviewed a significant number of candidates with some great experience and background. And I would say we hope to, I'd say, by the fall, definitely be able to announce who our recommendation is and who we'd like to move forward with. But great to have, I'd say, a wide variety of candidates from government relations through that real industry experience, even legal and contracts. We've had obviously a lot of questions and the industry in general has over contracts, force majeure, Husky force majeure, which has gone extremely well. And we believe we're through that. But as always, we welcome feedback and just would want our shareholders to know the candidates and the related knowledge and experience exceeded my expectations, and nice to have some great options there.

Great. And then I think the circular also makes a reference to potentially expanding the Board to 8 members. And I'm wondering what's -- why, I guess, is my question, given that there's presumably an added cost and an even number of directors raises potential issues. And I kind of always figured there was a task at hand that involved trying to eliminate any appearances of conflicts on the Board, and I thought this might be an opportunity to potentially have a Board member to step down and just in the way of conflicts and all like that. So if you could share some thinking about that potential accordion up to 8 people.

Yes. I mean, a lot of discussions with our large shareholders and even groups like yourself, Curtis, and it's always hard to hit it perfectly and keep everyone happy, but there was an ask for kind of more governance and a new independent as well. So we're -- I feel we're doing our best to add more independents and add Birch Hill representation, which I think majority of our shareholders have said it would be great to get them on the Board. They're known as one of the smartest private equity groups in North America, especially when it comes to capital allocation. As you know, and you would understand, Calgary, in general, most would say there's too many friends. It's too friendly. We'd like to see an independent view, and we get Birch Hill is going to provide that, and they're not necessarily oil and gas experts, either they can provide more of a generalist view, which I think most would say all of Calgary needs to have some generalist investor view on capital allocation and returns. But why is it 8? Obviously, we -- to your point, we don't want it to be 9 or 10. And then I think we're happy to evaluate it moving forward and welcome any feedback.

All right. Fair enough. And the last thing is just can you remind us what Birch Hill's piggyback rights mean for kind of shareholders in general?

Well, I can get back to you on that one, Curtis, as I'd hate to answer that question, be a little bit out to lunch, but happy to give a call and Mr. Vorra is with me as well, and we can definitely get you an answer to that, Curtis.

And at this time, we have no further questions in the queue.

Thank you, all. I think, well, if we're allowed, we just want to, again, I know we've said it a few times, but it means a lot for us to have our Board's support. So a big thanks to our Board members, our shareholder support, our staff and then all our stakeholders. Even our customers' support's been huge for us, our credit syndicate. We didn't speak a whole bunch about that but they have been incredible and continue to see a lot of support from our credit syndicate. So just a big thank you. I'm sure we're missing our communities we operate in, and I'm sure I've missed a few other stakeholders, but just a big thank you to everyone. Thanks, everyone, for your time today, and don't hesitate to reach out if you have any questions, concerns.

Once again, we'd like to thank you for participating on today's conference call. You may now disconnect.