TIL Limited (TIL) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the TIL Limited Q1 FY '27 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Vikash Verma from E&Y. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you, Palak. Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to the Q1 FY '27 Earnings Call of TIL Limited. To discuss the performance of the company and to answer the questions, we have with us from the company, Mr. Sunil Kumar Chaturvedi, Chairman and Managing Director; Mr. Alok Kumar Tripathi, Executive Director and CEO; Mr. Ayan Banerjee, Director, Finance; Mr. Pinaki Niyogy, Chief Growth and Technology Officer; Mr. Kanhaiya Gupta, Chief Financial Officer; and Ms. Chandrani Chatterjee, Company Secretary. Before we begin, I would like to draw your attention to the fact that today's discussion may contain forward-looking statements that are subject to various risks, uncertainties and other factors, which should be beyond management's control. We kindly request you that you bear in mind there may be uncertainties for interpreting such statements. We will now start the session with opening remarks from the management team. Afterwards, we will throw open the floor for an interactive Q&A session. With that said, I would like to invite Mr. Sunil Kumar Chaturvedi to make his opening remarks. Over to you, sir.

Thank you, Vikash. Good afternoon, everyone. It's a great pleasure to reconnect with all of you. Thanks for joining TIL Limited's Quarter 1 '27 Earnings Call. My name is Sunil Chaturvedi, Chairman and Managing Director of TIL Limited. I'm pleased to welcome our shareholders, investors, analysts and other stakeholders to this discussion, along with my colleagues from the senior management team who have all been introduced already. This is an important quarter for us, not merely because it marks the start of a new financial year, but because it reflects the visible progress of TIL's transformational journey that is now beginning to shape up. Over the last year, our focus has been clear: restore execution momentum in the core business, sharpen our operating discipline, build a stronger order pipeline, deepen our aftermarket opportunity and selectively add capabilities that can expand TIL's addressable market over the long term. The acquisition of Tulip Compression Private Limited is one such strategic step, but I want to state upfront that the center of gravity of this story remains TIL's core business, its engineering heritage, its manufacturing platform, customer relationships and renewed execution capability. Let me speak a little bit about our business model. For those joining us for the first time, and I'm sure many of you are doing that, TIL is an 8-decade-old Indian engineering and manufacturing company that has been closely associated with and has meaningfully contributed to the development of the nation's infrastructure landscape. Our core strength lies in the design, manufacture, sale and life cycle support of a diverse range of material handling, infrastructure and construction equipment. Over the years, we have specialized in defence equipment, a wide variety of pick and carry on deck cranes, empty container handlers, forklifts and reach stackers. And we are now expanding this range further through indigenous product development and new market opportunities. What differentiates TIL is not only the equipment we manufacture, but the combination of manufacturing excellence, a wide-ranging service network, deep customer relationships and strategic partnerships that allow us to support our customers across the full spectrum of equipment life cycle. Our customer base includes leading public and private sector organizations across defence, infrastructure, mining, energy, steel, ports and industrial sectors, including institutions like Bharat Dynamics, Bharat Electronics, BEML, the Indian Army, ONGC, Coal India, Reliance, Tata Steel, Adani, NTPC and the Indian Air Force among many, many other important customers. This installed base also gives us a meaningful aftermarket and services opportunity. While our defence strategic business unit continues to build on TIL's engineering capabilities and very, very specialized indigenous applications, in Quarter 1 FY '27, we have seen very healthy growth year-on-year on a consolidated basis as well as on a stand-alone basis. The growth momentum seems to be picking up with the consolidated turnover reaching INR 117.1 crores, supported by execution of existing orders, better revenue conversion and continued improvement in operating discipline. Importantly, this was also the first quarter in which Tulip Compression was consolidated into TIL's numbers for the first -- for the part period following completion of acquisition in May 2026. A key highlight of the quarter was also the delivery of 9 reach stackers to customers. This is significant, not only from a revenue perspective, but also because reach stackers are central to TIL's port and container handling franchise. These deliveries demonstrate that the organization is increasingly able to convert its order book into billed performance and rebuild customer confidence through execution. As we move through the year, order book conversion will remain a critical measure of our progress. The broader momentum in TIL's core business is also very encouraging. We are seeing activity across ports, logistics, infrastructure, construction and industrial applications, where customers value reliability, service support and life cycle economics. Our current order book of INR 211 crores and order pipeline of roughly INR 373 crores provide a foundation for growth. Our objective is not only to win orders, but to execute them with discipline, deliver on committed time lines and convert the order book into cash-generating growth. We are also encouraged by the response to the indigenous products showcased at EXCON. Many of you would remember that we had introduced 3 products. These are pick and carry cranes, CarryKing 515, truck cranes, an 85-tonne truck crane and rough terrain applications. These products reflect our commitment to indigenous product development and import substitution. We are taking them through field trials, customer engagement and enquiry conversion. There's a long period of these products being tested by our customers, and we are very encouraged by the responses that we've got from our customers. In parallel, our defence strategic business unit continues to build a meaningful opportunity pipeline. Defence is a long-cycle business, but it is aligned with India's Atmanirbhar Bharat priorities. And with TIL's manufacturing DNA, we believe this can become an important strategic growth pillar over time. Another important area of focus for us is aftermarket, right from beginning and now in a more accelerated form. TIL has a significant installed base across material handling, construction, mining and infrastructure applications. Every machine delivered creates a long-term service parts and maintenance opportunity for us. This business is recurring in nature, relatively less cyclical than new equipment sales and typically carries better economics for us. We are, therefore, placing sharper focus on parts availability, service responsiveness, annual maintenance contracts and customer uptime. The opportunity -- aftermarket opportunity is also a central part of how we intend to build a more resilient and profitable TIL. Taken together, the core platform today is stronger than it was a year ago. We have a clearer product strategy, better visibility of opportunities, a renewed focus on execution and an expanding service-led revenue stream. This is the platform on which Tulip has now been added. And I believe the distinction is important. Tulip is not a diversion from TIL's core. It's a strategic adjacency that strengthens the broader engineering and energy infrastructure story we are building. As far as Tulip is concerned, Tulip Compression brings to TIL a fast-growing clean energy infrastructure business with capabilities across CNG, LNG, hydrogen compression, gas dispensing and related equipment. Its products serve India's city gas distribution ecosystem and also open opportunities in international markets. TCPL has a current order book of INR 328 crores and an order pipeline of INR 117 crores. With PESO certification, [ SONCAP ] certification and ISO 16923 compliance across its compressor portfolio, Tulip brings regulatory credibility, engineering capability and market access in an area that is structurally aligned with India's energy transition. For TIL, the acquisition provides entry into clean energy infrastructure while also creating potential manufacturing, sourcing, service and customer synergies over time. Looking ahead, our priorities are clear. In the core TIL business, we will focus on converting our order book into timely deliveries, scaling reach stackers and other material handling opportunities, deepening the aftermarket revenue base and progressing the defence and indigenous product pipeline. In Tulip, we will focus on disciplined integration, expansion of the clean energy equipment opportunity and leveraging TIL's manufacturing and service strengths where relevant. We are not pursuing growth for size alone. We are pursuing growth that is executable, profitable and aligned with national priorities in infrastructure, defence and clean energy. To conclude, Quarter 1 FY '27 represents a constructive beginning of the year for TIL. The quarter reflects progress in our base business, visible execution through the delivery of 9 reach stackers, continued focus on aftermarket and services and the addition of Tulip as a clean energy growth platform. Our responsibility is now to convert this opportunity into consistent performance, transparent communication and sustainable value creation for all our stakeholders. TIL has a proud legacy, but our emphasis is on what we build from here, a stronger, more diversified, more execution-led Indian engineering company. With that, I will now request our CFO, Kanhaiya Kumar, to take you through the financial performance in slightly greater detail, after which we'll be happy to take your questions. Thank you very, very much for joining, and I hand it over to Kanhaiya.

Thank you, sir, and good afternoon, everyone. I'm pleased to share that TIL continued its operational momentum during Q1 FY '27, supported by healthy execution across business segments and the initial contribution from Tulip Compression Private Limited. First, I will take you the stand-alone performance. On a stand-alone basis, revenue from operations for Quarter 1 was -- stood at INR 78.6 crores, reflecting a 25% growth over Q1financial '26. EBITDA increased significantly to INR 3.4 crores, registering a 223% on year-on-year growth compared to INR 1.1 crores in the corresponding quarter last year, with EBITDA margin improving to 4.3% from 1.5%. The improvement was driven by better operational performance, a stronger product mix and continued focus on execution efficiency. Our PAT stood at negative INR [ 7.2 ] crores. On a consolidated performance, on a consolidated basis, revenue from operations stood by INR 117.1 crores, an increase of 86% over Q1 financial year '26. EBITDA rose sharply to INR 7.3 crores compared to INR 1.1 crores in Q1 financial year '26, while EBITDA margin improved to 6.2% from 1.5%. Our PAT stood at INR 5.5 crores. The consolidated results include the financial performance of TCPL, that is Tulip Compression from 8th May 2026 to 30th June 2026, representing a part period contribution during the quarter. Consequently, the reported consolidated revenue and profitability do not yet reflect the full quarter contribution from TCPL. Strategic update. The consolidation of TCPL marks an important milestone in TIL's growth journey. The addition of TCPL has expanded our revenue base and enhanced our presence in infrastructure and engineering-related opportunities. We expect a fuller contribution from TCPL in the coming quarters, providing better visibility on scale and operating leverage going forward. Overall, we remain focused on improving operational efficiency, strengthening order execution and driving sustainable growth while creating long-term value for all our stakeholders. With that, I would like to thank you for your continued support, and we can now open the floor for questions and answers.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Shristi from Niveshaay.

Congratulations, sir, on a good set of numbers. So my first question is what is the current market share in reach stackers? How much do they contribute to TIL's top line? And who are our major competitors here? And the one that you have supplied in Q1, is this referring to the CONCOR order that we have gotten?

Thank you, Shristi. So as you know that in reach stacker, we have made a big comeback. TIL used to be market leader. We have made a big comeback. And today, our market share is in the range of 38% to 40%, which we are wanting to scale up significantly beyond this because we are a domestic manufacturer, and we really do a significant amount of value add here. That's on the reach stacker side. What was your second question? Sorry, I missed out that, Shristi. Can you repeat that?

Yes. Sir, I'll just ask what is the current market share, the competitors in reach stacker and like we did very good in Q1 also. So is this the order that we have gotten from CONCOR about the reach stacker that we are currently supplying?

Yes. So this is not only CONCOR. CONCOR order is okay. I mean that's onetime order and it does come, let's say, every year, although I must compliment my team because they have got this order after almost a decade. TIL never got this order, let's say, from 2014, '15 time frame later. So that way, it is very good. But much more than CONCOR, we are also focused on the retail space. There are hiring people. There are people who are buying reach stackers by 1 or 2. We are very encouraged by the fact that reach stackers are not only going now at the port locations, but also going in very unique locations. People are using them for changing of mining dumper tires. People are wanting to use them for some steel industry, very special applications. So there are a lot of applications that our customers are finding for the reach stacker, and we believe that our sales should scale up to a sizable number in this year itself on this. I hope I responded to your question fully.

Yes, yes, sir. And sir, secondly, I just wanted to understand the execution time line of the order book that we currently have. And you also mentioned like the enquiry pipeline, we are the L1 bidder and the sole bidder. So do you think we will be able to convert the enquiry pipeline totally into the order book?

So Shristi, what happens is our order book contains various aspects of business. Some are defence orders, some are civilian orders. In some case, the delivery time lines are as short as 3 months. In some others, the delivery time lines given to us are as long as 6 months to 9 months' time. But usually, in a, let's say, 9-month frame, we see our order book getting exhausted completely, whereas some part of the order book can get exhausted as early as 3 months or 6 months' time. But because the customer profile is very different, the product profile is very different. Therefore, it's very difficult to say there is one number of within how many months will I be able to deliver this completely. It depends on what customers' expectations are. But usually, let's say -- let me give you an example of reach stacker. A retail reach stacker will not -- customer will not wait for 6 months' time. They will need it in 3 months' time, preferably. Some demand even 2 months' time, and we are preparing ourselves for that situation where our retail customer asking for 60 days delivery, we are able to provide them that. Whereas, let's say, an Air Force order that we got last year and which we executed completely for a very unique vehicle called N80. It's a missile handling system. That has given us several -- I mean, a couple of quarters, 2, 3 quarters or more, and we delivered everything. So that's the way it is.

So even if we take like roughly 9 months of execution time line, so this year, we might be able to achieve a top line of more than INR 200 crores with the current order book that we have?

But that is assuming that the current order book is the be-all and end-all and after that, we are not getting. What happens when you get a 3 months order, let's say, in September or October or November, I mean that will get added up. So we are looking at a significant jump in our turnover this year as we have always been talking, in the Annual General Meeting also I had indicated of that. We are looking at a significant jump. Last year, we could not -- a portion of our turnover, we could not see materializing because of reasons which are beyond our control, all the geopolitics and the logistics challenges, which came up in the last quarter. So we are wanting to scale up this time significantly.

And just one last question, sir. How are we looking at the margin side on these orders? And if you can just provide a breakup on the defence order and the other civilian orders, if that is possible?

Shristi, for me to say what EBITDA margins we make on specific products is challenging. You have seen that the blended EBITDA has just reached 3%, 4% in the first quarter, right? For us, there are some products which give better margin or -- and there are many products on which the EBITDA margins are very, very narrow. And why we want to improve that, there's a project which we have taken up for optimizing our costs, including material cost. Now it's a significant work. I mean sometimes it becomes difficult to explain to outside stakeholders. TIL's dependence on overseas supply chain has been so dominant in the last few years' time that making a change in that, structural change in that will take us a few more quarters. We began this last year. But I think this year, the whole process is getting accelerated. So we are looking at whether a European supply chain can be significantly brought to India. Having said that, we also need to appreciate that while civilian -- while the civilian, let's say, business might be more open to this kind of a change of supply chain, the strategic and defence sector customers are not very comfortable with this sudden change. They require some more time. They need their internal approvals and all. Even a nut and bolt on a missile system cannot be changed without, let's say, Army approving it or Navy approving it. So it becomes that much more. And because, as you saw, last year, our 50% turnover was defence, therefore, 50% of the optimization of supply chain becomes a time-lagged operation; hence, we are looking at a few more quarters before we really able to fix the margins. So for me to say any specific margin expectation this year would be difficult. But trust me, we are working very, very hard, as I said to our shareholders in the Annual General Meeting also. Every single day, our call is to improve our profitability, optimize our cost, reduce material cost, get more orders and give aftermarket support unparalleled to any other available in the market.

The next question is from the line of Santanu from SMIFS Limited.

Congratulations, sir, on a good set of numbers. I had a question with regard to Tulip Compression. So can you please explain the business dynamics of this entity, Tulip Compression? What does it actually do? And where would its growth area lie? And further, sir, how much percentage -- I mean, sorry, what would be the revenue expectation from Tulip Compression this year that is FY '27 and 2, 3 years beyond? And what would be the margin expectation? And also whether you are keen on expanding your percentage of ownership from 60% to almost 100% or maybe closer to 100%. So your thoughts on that, sir?

Thank you, Santanu. It's a very important question. The logic of why we acquired Tulip under TIL and what is the synergy between the 2 organizations. So let me just spend a few minutes -- a few moments in explaining business model of Tulip. Tulip as a company was created in 2018 for serving the oil and gas sector in general and natural gas compression business sector in particular. Tulip management at that time felt that the country is -- the transportation fleet of India is moving aggressively towards gas engines -- I mean, gas fueled, CNG-based fueling. Not only the transportation, but the private vehicles in India are moving very aggressively towards that. Now while we have seen some EVs coming in and getting popularized, if you see the statements coming from the largest car manufacturer in the country, Maruti, sorry, Suzuki now, they're very clear that in the -- EVs are still finding a challenging environment. Natural gas CNG is the way to go. They are committing a lot. Government of India is also very clear that the environment needs to be cleaned up. So Tulip started by packaging the compressors where the compression package -- compressor itself, compressor block was taken from our Swiss company, Burckhardt, they manufacture in Pune, and engines were given -- were taken from Caterpillar. So Gainwell supplied those engines and they packaged it beautifully. So the manner in which the packaging was done and the kind of overall fuel economics that the compression provided, they literally disrupted the market in 2019, '20 and '21 in such a manner that they became sizable. They became 15%, 17% market share. After that, COVID sort of slowed down everything. So the market itself slowed down, they maintained their market share. In '24, '25, in the year '25, calendar '25, they have scaled up their market share to 1/3 in India. There are 3 players, 3 major players, so to say. And we have become -- Tulip has become 1 of the 3, almost equal market share split. Now Tulip has also moved into LNG dispensing solutions with a company called GRAF Gastech of Italy. So we have brought those solutions to India and started selling them. Second thing is Tulip has gone into hydrogen compression. So again, with GRAF Gastech, India's first hydrogen compressor came through -- came to Tulip and Tulip sold it to NTPC. This compression system is being used for fueling the buses, which are -- hydrogen buses, which are plying between Noida and Jewar Airport. So this is the legacy. Why did we acquire it? We acquired Tulip because we thought Tulip brings a lot of manufacturing depth. They need manufacturing support of a larger company like TIL. This will help Tulip to scale up, go beyond the smaller compression systems that they build now to much larger compression system. In fact, they are in touch with now a couple of global players for packaging the compression systems, which could be as large as a few hundred square meters. So these are very, very large systems. Now obviously, for that, they need support from a company like TIL, which is very adept at manufacturing and all. Tulip, to your question, what is the scenario next 2, 3 years, I must say that best is to look at the past. Last 2, 3 years, Tulip has been growing at 20% to 40% per annum. This year also, their projections -- internal projections suggest that they will -- last year, they completed at about INR 278 crores revenue. And this year, they are likely to scale up very significantly from this. So we are expecting that Tulip will also become a sizable company within the TIL fold. Tulip also provides not only the additional manufacturing load to TIL, where we can move into tomorrow, let's say, cryogenic tanks, if the trucking is moving to LNG and hydrogen, cryogenic tank is the only way you can store these gas, liquid form or gas. Now cryogenic tank manufacturing in India is highly constrained. People are loaded 1.5, 2 years' time. And TIL is fully competent to deal with those double casing tanks. So that's one business plan in -- business case in TIL being sort of examined as to how quickly we can go to those tank manufacturing. The Tulip can also help us in terms of if there is a way of converting some of our machines into CNG machines, let's say. I mean we have seen in this country, a lot of equipment moving on to gas. In fact, railways have moved to hydrogen, which is a sweet spot for people like us that we will be able to provide solutions where large-scale train operations can move there. Now in terms of -- the ports -- port areas across the country, whether it is Western Coast or Eastern Coast, most of the port operations are either moving to gas or they're moving to EV. So many of the people are getting EV solutions. We are ready with our gas solutions hopefully very soon in the port operations. In terms of margin expectation, it's a new energy company. It has made its place in India. By the way, Santanu, I must say that we have just begun exporting from Tulip to Nigeria. So a sizable thing has not happened. Therefore, we did not make any specific disclosures or projections. But hopefully, next quarter, we'll be able to come out with some numbers on the export potential as well. Margins should be good. We are -- in the medium to long term, Tulip should give an EBITDA margin of 14%, 15% to my mind for the simple reason that we are not only equipment supplier. We maintain those equipment 24/7. That is how that industry operates. You not only supply compression package, your people operate that 24/7, and you get 7, 8 years of aftermarket support. All TCPL compression packages are connected systems. They throw data online, which are monitored in a control room. So we believe it's a very good business to have in TIL. It provides TIL some manufacturing push, some unique products, but also helps TIL in terms of navigating on the new energy space and cleaner energy space. I hope I have been able to answer. The one question that I did not answer yet is your suggestion as to whether all your indication whether TIL wants to expand equity base in this company. Yes, we do. Our ambition is to grow as high as feasible. There's already a discussion going on. Our Board has approved up to INR 50 crores equity infusion into Tulip for its growth path. We will see as to when -- as and when they need it. We will suitably scale up our kind of stake, TIL stake in this company. I think we had made an announcement at the time when we took over Tulip that we would want to go up to 74%. And that remains sort of a commitment that we will hopefully achieve in next few years' time. Thank you, Santanu.

Sir, just one more question on Tulip. Can you please name or describe your client set? Who are the major clients?

So TIL's major clients are all city gas distribution companies, whether they are -- sorry, Tulip's, whether they are IGL, Mahanagar Nigam, Indraprastha Gas, Kolkata, they are -- I mean, Tulip's offerings are going today to almost 80% of the country, everywhere. Wherever city gas distribution is there, wherever you see a gas station dispensing CNG, chances are in 1/3 of those stations, we are already there.

The next question is from the line of Rahul from Pegasus Growth LLP.

Congratulations on the great results. Sir, I wanted to actually talk about the current product line that we have. We have Grove cranes, and we have pick and carries also and we have -- besides the reach stackers, we have forklift trucks. We have the product line coming from 2 or 3 global players. Plus we have the Gainwell Group, which basically has a lineage of distribution for, I think, Caterpillar. So can you tell me how we are leveraging all these? Because we've talked about one product where we've got big orders, but we've not really talked about all the other stuff that we have and where do we see the market for that and how fast can we scale? How much of it is imported right now? And how much can be indigenized?

Yes. Thank you, Rahul. Very important question, very comprehensive question. Rahul, we have a number of products, but the broad categories, I would say, there are -- there is a significant range of rough terrain cranes that we have, where the market share hovers around 50% plus. We have some truck cranes, in which our market share at one point of time used to be 95% plus, let's say, a decade ago. Today, we are lower than 5%. The reason for that is very simple. The market -- while TIL was having very difficult last decade, the competition sort of including the competition, principally the competition from across the border, completely taken the market. So that's truck crane side. We have possibilities of moving into crawler crane market, all-terrain crane market, reach stacker market and forklifts. So in some, we exist. In some, we are -- our partners, global OEM partners are now providing us additional technology inputs so that we can not only refresh our existing product range, as I have been mentioning in AGMs or annual reports, but also bring in some products into India, which would be literally a class apart. So let's say, heavier cranes, which are currently getting imported from across Europe or from China. So we are bringing in new products. We are also getting some products -- some products may come to us only for exclusive export market because our OEM partners from the U.S., they want our support in markets like that. Coming to your question about how Gainwell and TIL, Gainwell Group, other companies and TIL are sort of working synergistically. See, the -- let me say from -- let me put myself into Gainwell's shoes and say that why we acquired TIL was because we wanted to solve some of the challenges we were facing. A company called Gainwell Engineering, which does underground mining equipment manufacturing, where the technology has been bought over globally from Caterpillar. They have a subsidiary in U.S. and Australia. Now there the fabrication was getting imported, all the way from U.S. or Poland because it's a very ultra-heavy fabrication. TIL can provide that. Gainwell Commosales, which is the Caterpillar dealership business, they are so good in aftermarket because they have been trained by Caterpillar for last 82 years. It's the same team, which began, let's say, it's the same DNA of the organization began its operation in 1944. How does one service a machine? How is the machine uptime guaranteed to the customer? How do you optimize the fuel consumption? How do you rebuild a machine? I'm very happy to share Gainwell is one of the rare Caterpillar dealers in the world, which has successfully done a number of rebuilds of underground hard rock machines. So Hindustan Zinc, our customer, they are using -- they are rebuilding the machine every 5, 7 years' time. Now that aftermarket mindset, TIL needs to learn from Gainwell, and we are having the 2 sets of team working very, very closely. Mr. Alok Tripathi, who happens to be our Executive Director and Chief Executive Officer, in fact, used to handle the entire aftermarket business for Gainwell. We sacrificed him from Gainwell for the simple reason we wanted TIL to go to absolutely different level in aftermarket support. And we are working very hard on making sure that those kind of synergies between Gainwell Group companies and TIL may become more pronounced as the times go. Hope I have been able to answer to all your questions.

Yes, sir, I also wanted to understand how much of the -- whatever the part of the machine is imported and how much is manufactured currently? And what can we actually indigenize and how much can we indigenize of all these?

So Rahul, TIL manufactures different kind of machines. Let's say, rough terrain crane or it's almost completely localized, except for one odd component which might be coming from Europe, which also we want to localize. Localized or have an alternative source. As you know, Europe also is a market which is in -- which has its own pain points. And every time European vendors supporting us in a timely manner is perhaps at this point of time, too much to expect. So in some cases, we have very high localization. In some others, we have low level of localization, let's say, truck crane today, if we have to give some ultra-high truck cranes, which we are wanting to provide, our local market indigenization, local level inputs would be very, very less, let's say, in 20s or 30s -- 30s, probably more less than -- I mean, less than 40, but certainly 30s. Our idea is that whether it is reach stacker, whether it is any kind of crane, we should look at localizing very significant parts, 75%, 80% in every case. Let's see the case of reach stackers. Now reach stackers comes with a Cummins engine. That Cummins engine is not still manufactured in India, but we are working very hard with our OEM partner, Hyster to make sure that convince Cummins that this engine comes here. Similarly, there are a lot of things which we have localized, like all the cylinders and all which earlier used to come from outside, now the Wipro is supplying those cylinders or some other suppliers that supply. We also want to see that transmission gearboxes, those kind of stuff also can come to India or to come to countries which are far reasonably priced. We were importing steel from Sweden, special steel. Thanks to Tata and Jindal, they have kind of scaled up capacity, and they are now manufacturing that kind of steel in India. That import has gone. So -- Rahul, to come back to your question, I think our intention is to become [ close ] to 90% or more localization. Only certain things which OEM would like to retain like software and things like that, we might still have to import, but rest of the things should all be India make.

Okay. Sir, I have one last question, if I'm allowed. Otherwise, I'll come back in the queue. But I was looking at the historic performance of this company. And I think at the peak, I think in 2019, it made around 12% operating margin. And that's the highest that they have done ever. Do you think that -- of course, the scale will help. But do you think that you can actually surpass that over a period of time, especially now that you have an acquisition which is higher margin?

Rahul, to your question, in medium to long term, absolutely. Of course, we have to go beyond 12%. Manufacturing company, which is manufacturing some very unique products, including defence products, I think a 15% to 16% EBITDA range should be our EBITDA range. But how quickly can we reach there is a question which is open. It is not clear in my mind. It may take 5, 7 years' time or it may also happen in 3 to 4 years' time. I'm talking about TIL isolated, it's stand-alone. I'm not talking about Tulip coming in because Tulip will have its own flavor of business, right? So -- and as we scale our product support, the other thing is TIL, and I feel sad about it, TIL used to manufacture such wonderful product, and we continue to do that, that we felt the products will never fail and therefore, aftermarket is not something we need to focus on. We learned a very different lesson from Gainwell, where they said product is world-class, but aftermarket support has to be absolutely world-class. You can't just have if and but about it. So as TIL sees in its revenue, increasing share of aftermarket, you will see EBITDA scale up anyway.

Okay. So you have a CapEx plan basically. That means you are going to further invest in fixed assets. And what kind of CapEx plan are you looking at? And would you be selling the excess land that you have?

Rahul, I think this is the last question, and I'll tell you no. So we are not looking at any significant CapEx at this point of time, except for the bridging CapEx of INR 5 crores, INR 10 crores here and there because the plants are old, especially the commercial plant is very old, that we will do, but we don't have any significant CapEx requirement as of now.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of [ Tushar Khurana from Peace Wealth. ]

I have 2 questions to ask. My first question is regarding Gainwell Engineering. May I know at what scale Gainwell Engineering is operating right now? And do we also see any kind of overlap between Gainwell Engineering and TIL? If not, and how they're complementing each other, like you said, we could do fabrication from TIL for Gainwell. And does it make any business sense also to integrate these 2 into 1 business unit? That's my first question.

So let me respond. Tushar, Gainwell Engineering is a company which has -- since it's an unlisted company, I can share that they are looking at something like INR 700 crores plus turnover this year. It's a business which we bought out from Caterpillar, and it has only been 3 years old. So they are scaling up very rapidly and also diversifying beyond room and pillar underground mining business too into railways and a few very strategic kind of high-technology products. For instance, they have just supplied India's first locally manufactured runway cleaner truck. This is with a U.S. company. So they have those very unique offerings. Synergy, yes, of course. TIL and Gainwell Engineering, they have great synergy. They have synergies because not only in terms of fabrication, but because the sector we serve, many of those sectors are overlapping sectors. So while we serve mining customers, some of them have surface as well as overseas mining -- I mean, underground mining operations as well. Coal India is a point in case. So there, our effort is to bring them as close to each other as possible. Has TIL started supplying fabrication to Gainwell Engineering yet? Answer is no. They are evaluating. The drawings have been shared between the 2 organizations. And TIL is trying to estimate the cost of those things and the engineering costs, which may be required in terms of bringing out those products from Kharagpur and Kamarhati plant. We see great opportunities for the 2 organizations to strengthen each other. I think the only thing I can share with you at this point of time to your other leading question is that we want to bring our manufacturing as close to each other as possible, if not under the same umbrella, as close to each other as possible. And who knows at some point of time, we may think in terms of how do we get -- Tulip has come. Tulip was under Gainwell Commosales, dealership business. Tulip has been taken over by TIL. That's -- idea is that manufacturing canvas should be as unified as possible. I'll leave it at that because we are all working through different challenges in different companies, but that's the idea.

That's very helpful. My second and last question is on the defence side. So I want to know what products are we catering right now? I understand we do rough terrain vehicles, and we do some missile launch platforms for the defence. So I just need to understand, other than that, what are we doing and which further segments do we plan to enter into in terms of defence, in terms of new products?

So Tushar, TIL has been serving the Indian defence, all 3 branches of Indian defence, Army, Navy and Air Force for the last several decades. We've been supplying various kind of material handling systems, including material handling systems, which are used for handling some strategic missile systems, right? Missile handling platforms, and they come in different formats and product ranges because -- what is needed for surface to surface may not be needed for surface to air. What is needed from air to surface may not be needed in any other formation and maybe has its own way of looking at things. So there's a variety of products. I think we have a very significant market share. Almost the entire missile handling platforms are going with our support now. And we are scaling this up now because the defence establishment in India, VRDE, DRDO, they are all nudging TIL to scale up and to go to induct different other platforms. There's a very significant requirement emerging in India for things which TIL used to do, but which we discontinued more than a decade ago, things like missile launchers. TIL has the capability of rolling out missile launchers. We used to do that. But then it got discontinued and now there is again a nudge from the defence establishment as to whether we can relook at that. We are certainly relooking at that. Torpedo launchers used to be the other things. There are -- there are those 5 negative list of defence products, which are going to be stopped from imports successively. TIL is reviewing that list very comprehensively. We believe there are a number of products in those 5 lists, which will become part of TIL's product range in times to come. With the kind of credibility that TIL established in defence establishment, I think we are in a very good position to partake those defence products. Some of the products, I may not be able to divulge anything or some of the solutions that we are working on, I may not be able to divulge very much in this call because they are very, very confidential. They relate to some very specific research being done by transportation platforms or they are also relating to some very unique powertrain systems that we may provide to the Indian Army in due course of time. But at this stage, I'll just stick to that.

The next question is from the line of Deepak Ajmera from IGE India Limited.