Tokio Marine Holdings, Inc. (8766) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

[Interpreted] Thank you, everyone, for participating despite your busy schedules. I am Ishiguro, Global Communications Department, Tokio Marine Holdings. We are pleased to present Tokio Marine Insights, a series of presentations hosted regularly for our fellow analysts and institutional investors to hear from our frontline members regarding topics of interest to you. We have received a great deal of interest in our international business, a growth driver for our company. Therefore, in recent issues of Tokio Marine Insights, we have featured Philly, Kiln, HCC, Delphi and Thailand safety. And now this time, we are introducing Tokio Marine Seguradora, the background behind the company's remarkable profit growth in recent years and the source of the company's competitive strengths in Brazil. The presenter today is the CEO in Brazil of Tokio Marine Seguradora, Jose Adalberto Ferrara. In terms of procedures, first, Mr. Ferrara will use the slides that are uploaded on to the homepage already. And then later, after his presentation, we will engage in a Q&A session. [Operator Instructions] Today, we will end around 10:00 a.m. in Japan, depending on how many questions we get, we will continue maximum until 10:30 JST. Over to you, Mr. Ferrara, please start.

Okay. Please, if you can put the first slide for me, please. And just let me tell, good morning, ladies and gentlemen that are on this presentation. It's going to be a pleasure to me to present our operations down here in Brazil. We call Tokio Marine Seguradora or just when I say TMSR stands for Tokio Marine Seguradora in Brazil, right. So it's going to be a pleasure for me to introduce you our operations over here. And any questions that you have, please at the end of the meeting, we have a Q&A section that I will be available to answer any questions that you might have, okay? My name is Ferrara. My last name is Ferrara. I'm a -- I've been -- I got TMSR, Tokio Marine Seguradora in September 2009, so basically 15 years ago. And for the last -- as the CIO, Chief Information Officer, running technology and operations in that time. And in 2013, July 1, 2013, I became the CEO of our operations over here, right? So in July 1, 2024, I just completed 11 years running the operation over here. And I'm going to try to explain to you or to show to you my fellows, what's going on down here in Brazil. Let's move to the -- so I'm a person like I said, a Chief Information Officer, but I had an opportunity to run for -- to work for banks, especially in the U.S. I had an opportunity to work there for almost 5 years in a bank, running technology over there. And the same that I have done in Tokio Marine in Brazil when they started working over here as the CIO. But as the President changes, let's say, the function change a lot, and I would like to share with you the key accomplishments that we had in the last 13 years, okay? Let's move on. Next slide, please. Show you our agenda. It's a pretty simple agenda. We are going to give you a company overview. But before that, I'm going to show to you what is our current market overview in terms of insurance industry in Brazil. Let's talk a lot about our strategy. And as I said before, our last section is going to be regarding the Q&A section. Moving to the next slide. Instead of talking about company overview, next slide is going to show to you, please, the Brazil insurance market, the current Brazil insurance market. As you can see, Brazil is 1 of the most promising emerging markets, right, where the gross written premium amounts of BRL 175 billion or USD 34 billion, right? And our product mix, the entire country, basically, the auto business is 33%, life business is 29%, commercial line is 31%, and personal line is 7%, right? In terms of the growth of property and casualty market, it is expected for the next 10 years to have a growth of 6.6% and -- with a CAGR of 6.6% in the next 10 years. That is the plan of our Brazilian industry. Let me tell you, this USD 34 billion is basically 1.7% of our gross domestic product that totaled $2 trillion, $2 trillion. So 1.7% stands for those USD 34.2 billion. But that represents only property and casualty business and life business. When we include in the Brazilian industry, the health business and the pension business, that number goes from USD 34 billion to USD 124 billion, right? So basically, 1/3 of our Brazilian industry is P&C and life, another 1/3 is health business and 1/3 is the health business. But we in TMSR, Tokio Marine Brazil, we just work with the property and casualty and life business. We don't do business in the health business, neither pension business so far, just on P&C and life business. That reason I'm showing you the size of this market that totals $34.2 billion. Moving to the next slide. You can see the TMSR is one of the leading insurance in Brazil today. We are doing business over here for 65 years in July 7 of 2004. We just completed 65 years of presence in Brazil. Nowadays, we have 2,400 employees (sic) [ 2,369 employees ] working for our company here. In 2023, our gross written premium has reached USD 2.4 billion, USD 2.4 billion. Our market share totals 6.5% in the Brazilian industry, and we are the fourth biggest insurance company operating in Brazil, the fourth, in that line of business that I told you without health, without pension business, just including property and casualty and life business. When we took a look on that industry, we are the fourth biggest insurance company operating in Brazil. Our 2023 net income after taxes totals USD 245 million, right, and we have reached a combined ratio of 86.7%, right. For a company like us, we define ourselves as a multi-line company. It means that we work in all line of business all line of business without health and pension business. So to have a combined ratio of 86.7% is an excellent one, and I'm going to show you how the competitors are performing, looking the combined ratio in a few minutes from now. So we are also the 3rd best company to work in Brazil, and we have been awarded for the 11 consecutive years by an institute called Great Place to Work. For 11 consecutive years, we have been awarded as one of the good company to work for, right? And let's move to the next slide, where I'm going to show to you the TMSR top line evolution, as you can see on the left corner, we're in 2011, a company of BRL 1.6 billion gross written premium, and we have reached at the end of 2023, right corner, BRL 12.1 billion gross written premium. So it means that in the last 11 -- 12 years, the company has grown 7x more or 633% growth since 2011. And that means a CAGR of 18% the annual growth in this last 12 months -- 12 years, sorry. And I would like to draw your attention when you see the yellow bubbles, that is the number where Tokio Marine has grown each year. So when you see 2012, for example, it was 25.8%. And in 2023, the growth was 15.2%. The number that you see above of that yellow bubble is how the market has grown in the same year. And as you can see, along these 12 years, Tokio Marine has grown much more than the average of the market. There is something that keep us, let's say, in a very solid and sustainable growth for those 11 years, growing much more than the market average. When we -- move to the next slide, please, Slide #8, you'll see the bottom line evolution, right? Bottom line evolution, as you can see, the returned profitability since 2011. We have been improving our combined ratio since 2011, where our combined ratio was 120%. As you can see in 2023, we have closed with a combined ratio of 86.7%, right. And the -- In 2009, 2010, when you see the left bottom corner, you will see that in 2009, 2010, unfortunately in that time when we got the company over here TMSR in Brazil was losing money. So we have lose 2009 and 2010, but in 2011 -- from 2011 on TMSR finally got -- started getting profit, and we start with BRL 50 million in 2011, and we have reached BRL 1.83 billion roughly before taxes in 2023. At the same time, the combined ratio reduced from 120% to 800.6 (sic) [ 86.7% ] and next slide, I'm going to show to you other metrics of our evolution. Please go to the next slide. You can see the market share. As you can see in this slide, we have basically 6 benchmark companies like Porto Seguro; the Spanish-based company that we call MAPFRE; the Germany based the company, Allianz; another Germany-based company, HDI Hanover; the U.S.A. company, Liberty insurance company; and the Japanese one, our co-sister, Sompo insurance company, right? And we have been succeeding our market share. We have been growing since 2012 we were 2.7% market share, and we had grown to 6.5% in 2023 market share, right? And at the same time, Porto Seguro and other companies, you can see by the arrows there are a declining in their participation, and we are getting advantage to grow our market, basically compared with our 6 benchmarking insurance company. Tokio Marine has grown, and we got the fourth largest market share in Brazil nowadays or the second among the nonbank insurance. So it's the only insurance with constant market share gain, okay? When we move to the next slide, please. Slide #10. And you can see also the comparison with the key competitors in terms of combined ratio. Take a look on the left side, you will see that our combined ratio in 2011 was 120% and in 2000 -- in the right corner in 2023 was 87.2%, right? And another thing that I would like to draw your attention is that the best-in-class profitability since 2017. If you take a look on the green dotted line, that's the line regarding Tokio Marine performance since 2013 -- '17, sorry, we have been getting the best-in-class profitability since 2017. And also, we got the, let's say, an improvement of our share -- our combined ratio. A 19% since 2011. And nowadays, we are running even in 2024, we are running with this basically with the same combined ratio that I'm showing to you that was the end of 2023. So other companies, basically, they went over 100% of our benchmark companies, as you can see in the left side and in the right side as well. Why they went over 100%? And in those companies, basically, they use the investment income as part of the combined ratio. So the use of the concept of extended combined ratio, where they include the net investment and because they make money with that. We are running -- we are doing business in a country where our interest rate is approximately 10.5% interest rate on an annual basis. So much of -- many of those companies, even the multinational companies, they prefer not doing, in concept, they're not doing underwriting property and give you a preference to do the net investment income. We, at Tokio Marine, we manage the company to have underwriting profit or operational profit. And let's say, the net investment, some think that will add to our results. But what we look priority is to have underwriting profit or running below 95% combined ratio. That is our metric over here that we run and in line with the TM, Tokio Marine Holding definition. Let's move on to the next slide. You'll see also the comparison in terms of administrative expense ratio. This is very important metric for us, due to the fact that the administrative expense efficiency allows us to practice competitive price for growing with a sustainable growth. And I'm going to explain you better. Administrative expense ratio, the evolution of the 6 benchmark insurers, as you can see, we were 20% in 2011, right, on the left side, 20%, and nowadays, we are 8.5%, right. And basically, we have -- if you take a look on the right side, comparing the administrative expense ratio with our benchmark companies, we have the best one by far, right? And that is due to a lot of technology that we put in place in our process, automating our process and controlling expenses in a good shape. And basically, that administrative expense ratio give us, let's say, a more competitive advantages when compared with our benchmark companies because we can practice, let's say, competitive prices for our customers and brokers. And that is something that support has been supporting a lot our growth for the last 12 years, as I showed to you in the previous slides, right? And in order to the competitors to reach the same level of administrative expenses, they needed to invest a lot in technology like us and also to automate their process in the way that we are automating. So one of the, let's say, the best things that we have in our operation over here is a very excellent technology in place that led us to have an excellent administrative expense ratio, right, of just 8.5% compared with our R&D premium, right? And if you take a look since 2015, when you see in the dotted green line, you'll see that since 2013, we have the best administrative expense ratio since 2015. So for approximately 9 years, we are one of the best companies in terms of administrative expense ratio. Moving to the next slide. Slide 12, please. Let's talk a little bit about strategy. In terms of strategy, let's move on to the next slide, please. You will see that one of the key strategy of our operations over here. We talk about our 4 Ps, 4 Ps stands for: first P, people; second P, our process; the third P, is product; and fourth P is the passion, passion in what we are doing. Let me try to explain to you when everything about the company in the insurance companies, obviously, it's about people and processes, right? And we put a lot of passion in what we are doing over here. And we needed to work with the people, more than 2,400 people that work for the company. They are our priority. Our second priority is the automation of our process that help us to reduce the administrative expenses to support the growing volume of the company with the same amount of people working for us, the same headcount working for us. The third one, the third P is the product. So we have a complete solution for individuals and companies. But product is a sort of, let's say, thing that can be easily copied by the competitor, right? But the quality of people, the quality of our process, the automation process that we have in place and the passion that our 2,400 people dedicated to our company over here is something very difficult to be copied. And in order to do that, it takes time. It's a time-consuming process to have those 3 bullets, let's say, people cross and passion in line to support the growth. It is not something that the competitors can copy easily. Product they can copy, but the other is very difficult to be copied. And we feel very honored to have a, let's say, like I told you before, to be -- for 11 years to be one of the base -- the best companies to work for, defined by the Great Place to Work, the American institute called Great Place to Work. And people is part of that strategy, right? So engaged and committed team is a key differentiator of TMSR when compared with our competitors, okay? Let's move on to the next slide, please. Let's talk about our 4P strategies. This positive cycle enables TMSR to have been succeeding to grow more than the market for 12 consecutive years. And since 2011, the number of employees grew only 60%. The headcount of this company has grown only 60%. And at the same time, our gross written premium has grown 7.3x. So we have 633% growth in terms of top line, gross written product. And our headcount just grew only 60%. And that is due to a lot of automation that we have in place and good people that we have been training and working for us and committed to people for no doubt, engaged and empowered people lead us to continuously improve the process that we have in place, and that brings us the best-in-class cost efficiency, like I told you before, right? Where we are running cost efficiency with 8.5% in regard to our only premium. And also the best-in-class cost efficiency leads us to a competitive price including a diversified product that we have in place. So at the end of the day, we have broker and customer satisfaction as a source of our passion over here. One of the -- when we have all those things together, lead us to have a best-in-class profit grow, like I showed to you, 18% CAGR grown in the last 12 years or 87% of combined ratio a little bit lower than 95%, that was the commodity ratio declined for the Brazilian operation by the head office. So that strategy, let's say, show us the continuous leaders to a continuous high investment since 2009, and that cycle goes back to engagement, empowered employee, continuous improving new process and also providing best-in-class cost efficiency. That circle of strategy is something that works fine over here. And the best metric is what is written in the second bullet, 60% growth in terms of headcount with 633% growth in terms of gross written profit. That shows everything what we have been doing in terms of strategy. Let's move on to the Page 15, please. On the Page 15, as you can see, the employee satisfaction -- in the 4 Ps, just reinforcing what I said before. I said the first priority is the people, first P, people, second is process, third is product and the fourth is passion. The first one, people, is regarding -- and we measure the employee satisfaction. Every year, we provide a survey, internal survey, using Great Place to Work with a bunch of questions that they do for the all the 2,400 employees that we have over the year. And the results are those green bars that you are seeing over here. In 2011, for the first time that we have provided that survey, we -- to be sincere, we got a little bit concerned or a lot of concern at that time because we got, let's say, just 67 points employee satisfaction. And in terms of national ranking, we were among 150 companies working in Brazil. We said, by no means we are going, we needed to improve that employee satisfaction. Let's work on that. And I would say that our HR department and all the senior management of our company over here. We put in place a lot of initiatives in order to improve this employee satisfaction. And as you can see, at the same time, the turnover shows us that we are gaining success in doing that. The turnover in occidental country like in Brazil, in 2011 was 21% turnover. And we have closed 2022 with 8% or 11% growth in 2023, right? This is something for the occidental with standards. It's a very excellent turnover especially in our Brazilian market, right? And when you see also the employee satisfaction score that in 2011 was just 67%, we have closed 2023 with 93%, right? So also, when you see the Great Place to Work ranking, okay, in the bottom of this slide, you'll see that in 2013, we got the 47 position. And since 2019, let's say, we are gaining the second position 2020 was in the fourth position; 2021, second position; 2022, second position; and 2023, the third position. Let me explain the third position, not in the insurance industry, the third position in the entire Brazil industry, not just the insurance industry, all the competitors, including IBM, automakers, like Toyota, Renault, Nissan, General Motors, et cetera. And banks as well, like Bradesco, Itau and other comps. So the entire industry, more than 5,000 companies participate in that survey that was made in 2023. And we are honored to get the third position of, as one of the best places to work for in Brazil. And the third -- or the first one in terms of the insurance industry. The third in the Brazilian market, but the first one, for sure, in the insurance industry. So we are very proud of that, okay? And let's move on to the next slide, Slide 16. So you can see also, I would like to reinforce that since I got the CEO position July 1, 2013, I mean, 11 years ago, exactly 11 years ago, the senior team that I got in that time are the same. Basically, Marcelo Goldman, Adilson, Felipe and Masaaki Itakura, all of them are the same since 2013. And more recently, we have included Mrs. Rosete, responsible for the Governance and the Enterprise Risk Management and our CFO, Daniel Dibe, 2 years ago, both they got that position 2 years ago. So I am very proud of my senior management team. We work as a team, this is one of the key values of our company over here to work as a team. And all those friends or colleagues. They're working straightforward to keep growing sustainable growth in all these years. And every year, we try to grow at least 2 digits to grow, right? We try to do that. And we have been gaining success, like I showed to you in the previous slides in those bubble, yellow bubbles numbers. If you take a look over there, major of the growth was 2 digits growth, and we are getting success in keeping 2-digit growth for the years to come. Probably a year ago was, just to remind you, was 15% a year ago. And chances are that in 2024, I still have -- I'm very confident that we have a great chance also to keep growing 2 digits along 2024, okay? So I'm proud of this team that we are running together this company for 11 years, and let's move on to the next slide, please, Page 17. And when we go to process, that is our second P, I would like to draw your attention that one of our key strategy in terms of process is to insource the core and critical operations that we have in our organization over here. I'm going to explain to you. For example, when I got the company 2009, running the CIO functions, basically, our system development team was 100% outsourced, right? I said, by no means we are going to get success in speed up the process of delivering new process, new automations, and we decided to internalize the entire team in that time, right? And that has been proving the right thing to do, right, because we reduce costs with vendors, external vendors. And at the same time, we prove the quality of our people in order to do the right technology for the company. And being a former CIO, Chief Information Officer, it's pretty easy to understand the following. Look, my people that work on the IT division, they are by obligation, they needed to understand technology, obviously. But what they can what really they can add value to us is how much they know the insurance industry. So having a IT technician, IT expert that understand technology plus add value, knowing a lot the insurance market is something that has been making the difference when we compare with our competitors. And basically, our 300 people that work in technology, all of them understand the insurance industry very well, and they can cooperate with the evolution of our process, the products and automation as well as technology innovation that I'm going to tell you a little bit later. And let's start another operation that we have internalized was our call center. Basically, as an insurance industry, who gives support to our customer and to our brokers, basically, the call center attendance. And that function was 100% outsourced as well. I said, by no means we are going to deliver quality or to our customers and brokers with a outsourcing company, with an employee that is not committed with the things of Tokio Marine. So we decided to internalize that team, and that has been proving the right thing that was done because many of the new positions that are open in the company, they come from call center to fill out that position that is open to grow the company, right? So call center people is something that makes a key difference for us. Another internalization was the data center. Data center, at the time was running in the IBM data center when we decided to have our own data center, and we did a sort of colocation in another part. But just for you to have an idea of the investments that we have done in data center, they payoff, the payback of that approach was less than 1 year. So in less than a year here, we got the entire technology in place to have our own technology, and we saved more than $19 million in that time that help us to reduce a lot our administrative expenses, doing those kind of in-sourcing, okay? And the last one, I would like to mention our '24 road service assistance and that was made in 2018. And in 2021, also we have internalized our 24 assistance for our property. So the automate process automation and sourcing help us to reduce a lot our administrative expenses in the last 12 years. Let's move on to the next slide, please. I would like just to mention our technology and innovation. We are considered one of the market leaders in terms of technology and innovation by brokers and competitors and also we are a Tokio Marine innovation lab of our head office, right? We are one of the key countries with a good technology in place. That's is why we are in a position to be a Tokio Marine innovation lab before our Tokio Marine head office, right? Let's move on to the next slide, please, Slide 19. As you can see, in terms of our third P, is about product. We have a diversified and a well-managed risks since auto business that represents 61% of our product mix. And going over a large property, marine or transport, homeowners, SME property, general liabilities, life business, energy, and surety and D&O. In terms of energy, I would like to point it out that Brazil is a country very committed with the reduction of the carbon on the atmosphere, and we are investing a lot on green energy. And Tokio Marine has become recently one of the first insurance leader in that market to move on the energy, producing green energy in the north and the south of the country. We have more than 60 product offering in our broad mix portfolio. And basically, 61% is auto business, 29% is commercial line, 5% personal lines and 5% life. Let me tell you most of our benchmark companies, most of them, they are much more bigger, let's say, in terms of product mix, they are bigger than 61%. We have a more balanced portfolio mix, as you can see over here, okay? In terms of auto business, we are the third biggest insurance company in Brazil. We are the second one until 6 months ago, when Hanover bought Liberty and they become a little bit bigger than us. We are the second. Now we are the third one, but growing fast in order to reconquer that second position, the auto business, I guess, in 2 years from now. We are moving, please to the next slide, Slide 20. As you just going for those 4 lines of products like the auto business, you can see in 2011 compared with 2023, the gross written premium, we have grown more than 23% in terms of CAGR for auto business. In terms of operating results, our underwriting results to auto business has grown 28% CAGR. Commercial lines also has grown 17% in terms of CAGR from 2011 to 2023 and a CAGR of underwriting profit of 12%. Next slide, please. You can see the same evolution of life business. Life business, the CAGR was in the last 12 months, 80% in terms of gross written premium, in terms of operating results to 16%. Personal lines that includes, let's say, homeowners, rental and other condominium, other line of business, CAGR was 15% in terms of gross written premium and the operating result CAGR was 5%. So all those line of businesses, as you can see, we have been growing a lot in all those lines of business. That's the reason that in total, we have grown 633% in the last 12 years or 7x more. When we discount the inflation rate of these 12 years. Basically, the size of the company, we have grown 3x more. So that company in 2011, that was BRL 1.6 billion would be now -- let's say, BRL 3.2 billion, considering inflation, but we are BRL 12.6 billion. So we have grown 3x more along these years above the inflation rate. So next slide shows to you, Slide 22, please. In terms of passion. When we mention passion, I would like to reinforce that the TMSR's DNA, Tokio Marine Brazil, DNA is we look at every time of operational excellence in everything that we do over here. That's the reason why we get the commitment to excellent service quality and client satisfaction is considered the DNA of TMSR. All the employees of this company, our 2,400 employees that worked for us, they are very committed in terms of exceeding the expectation of our brokers and our -- and the clients of those brokers or the clients as well. For that reason, we have in a daily basis in every minute, we are measuring our key KPIs. We have 18 key performance indicators for client satisfaction. And those KPIs comes from claims handling, contact center attendance, 24-hour service. And we measure that satisfaction coming from customers and brokers. And we convert that client satisfaction, NPS, Net Promoter Score. Our Net Promoter as you can see on the second bullet, we have reached 70% NPS in our company here. As you know, in our industry, companies that runs over 60% NPS is considered an excellent score. But we are running above 70% for the last 12 years. I would say that delivering quality to brokers and clients as a consequence of that, one of the biggest, let's say, success that we gaining over here, we have reached or we had grown our broker base from 10,000 brokers to more than 42,000 brokers over the past 10 years. Just for you to have an idea, the Brazilian market has nowadays 120 brokers. So 1/3 of the brokers are doing business with us in a daily basis, as you can see, 42,000 brokers. That explain also how we are growing fast, having, let's say, a distribution -- sales distribution basically 100% in brokers-based distribution. And I feel very proud to have to be one of the best in insurers as you can see and the recognition coming also from a Modern Consumer Award Ceremony that they call us as the Company of the Year and recognition by the customer service excellence that we have been done for the years until now. So I'm very proud for this kind of award, right? And to have our 2,400 employees, they're very well committed with the company over here. So in conclusion, please. I would likely, let's say, to summarize for you, my fellows that our P&L, our gross written premium. We have grown 15.2% in 2023. Our gross written premium has reached USD 2.4 billion. By the way, when we go to the first semester of 2024, we have grown from USD 2.4 billion to USD 2.5 billion already. Our net income is we have reached in 2023 USD 245 million. And until the first semester of this year, the first semester year-to-date numbers, we are profiting USD 140 million. And the combined ratio was 86.7% in 2023. In 2024, the first semester, we are running basically with the same combined ratio with 87.7% outlook that many of you knows, we got the extreme climatic [ changes ] in the South of the country even with that extreme climatic changes, even so we are running in a very good shape, and also our administrative expenses that was in 2023, 8.5%, we are running in the first semester, 7.8%. So the numbers in 2024. So I'm very proud of those numbers. I believe that chances are that we are going to run this company in 2024, even better than 2023, if we keep the same trend that we got in the first semester. So my friends, thank you for listening to me and [Foreign Language]. I'm open for Q&A, please.

[Interpreted] Thank you very much, Ferrara. That was a very passionate presentation, and we can very much hope for a double-digit growth going forward as Tokio Marine Holdings, that's very encouraging to know. [Operator Instructions]. Without further ado, and we have a lot of questions. So first of all, the first one is from SMBC, Mr. Muraki. There are 2 questions. The first one is regarding Page 17 of your presentation. Here, you talked about the system insourcing and process automation. I was wondering how much IT investment you have made in the past for IT? How much is this? And also the current headcount of your IT division, please? Or amongst your DWP, how much in percentage is allocated to technology, please? I'd like to move on to the second question. The second question is regarding Page 13, dynamic pricing. What kind of data is the dynamic pricing based on? What is the frequency of your pricing changes? And when you change the prices so frequently, does it deteriorate the broker's satisfaction? Does your broker satisfaction come down? Because of frequent price changes? And is there a certain customer segment that you focus on, please?

Okay. Let me suggest you if you could address one question by time, it would be better to me, okay? And so the first question, I understand regarding the in-sourcing process that we mentioned on the Page 17. Let's say, in terms of cost of the data center, like I told you, our payback was less than 12 months in terms of investment. But in that time in 2010, when we decided to in-source the data center. In that time, I remember, we have invested in Reals, was BRL 12 million, or in terms of dollar basis it was in that time, if you divide now-a-days pool by -- by $3 million in that time, $3 million approximately, right? But just for you to understand, we have paid -- we are paying to IBM in a monthly basis, approximately BRL 2 million per month right. And we invested BRL 12 million in our data center in that time, right? And in our systems development team nowadays, we have approximately let's say, 300 people, IT experts working in our -- technology-as-a-whole, not just systems development, infrastructure as well. Basically, let's say, almost 15% of our headcount is working on the technology base at this point in time. We have been investing in technology -- we have been investing in technology approximately BRL 150 million per year, right? And the IT cost, IT cost, it means IT in regards to gross written product is 2.5%, 2.5%. Just for you to have an idea, 2.5%. The total IT cost, everything, including human resources, HR, including infrastructure, telecom costs, everything is approximately 2.5% compared with our gross written premium. That's our key numbers at this point in time.

[Interpreted] Thank you very much. So this is the second question regarding Page 13, dynamic pricing. What kind of data is this based on? How frequently do you change your prices? By changing your prices frequently, does it bring the broker satisfaction down? Is there any specific customer segment that you focus on? Ferrara-san?

Yes, are you listening to me?

[Interpreted] We can hear you.

Well, look, in terms of frequency of changing the pricing, especially, let's talk about auto business. That's the one that we change frequently, right? We are in a continental country, right? If you take a look in the Brazilian map, we are 20x bigger than Japan, just for an idea, right? So let's say, the price that we practice in the north of the country could be different of the price that we practice in the south of the country because the experience in terms of clients is totally different, right? And we have some panels in our division of pricing that shows to us how we are performing in each region by each auto model, by year, et cetera, et cetera. And if necessary, change that at least 1 per month, 1 time per month, right? But if something is not going good, for example, if you are losing, let's say, if we see that we are losing, let's say, the renewed ratio, we are reducing that. So we try to keep the renew, modifying the prices or changing the pricing or giving some advantages to the customers in order to keep him working with us. So one of the key metrics is our, let's say, renew ratio, and that shows us how good has been our performance in terms of price fixing. But we changed a lot. We have panels of pricing, and we changed that frequently, I would say, at least once a month, at least once a month, sometimes 3 or 4 months -- 4 times per month. And customers, they are accustomed with that because it the way that the entire Brazilian market performs. All the insurance industry, they change their prices as required, as necessary. And we are getting success in doing that due to the advantages that we have in terms of technology. We just push a bottom in a click of mouse, we're changing the price without any complexity of changing prices. So we can do that very easily. But we have no let's say, problems with brokers in accepting those changes as the time goes by.

[Interpreted] Thank you. So let's take one question at a time. Next one, is Aberdeen Oichi-san. 2 questions. First one, we understand that TMSR is different with peers on distribution. There's a big difference in the distribution strategy. So how do you evaluate this? Is this differentiation sustainable?

Let me tell, in terms of sales distribution, okay, like our competitors, our key competitors, basically, almost 100% of our distribution has been made by brokers, brokers, right? In Brazil, we don't operate with agencies. We don't have agents, right, just brokers. And there are many, let's say, I would say that at least 90% comes from brokers and 10% of our distribution has been made by what we call affinity channel or special channels, right? Special channels for us means, let's say, distribution that we do over bancassurance, balcony of banks available to us and also retail stores. We have very large retail stores where we sell our products, let's say, what we call micro insurance products on those retail stores. But usually, those retail stores, they have their own captive broker. That's the reason why we say that 100% of our distribution has been made by brokers. But in a practical way, at least 10% are not a regular market broker, but an captive broker, a broker that belongs to that retail store or to that bank, for example. For example, we distribute products in a bank, a Spanish-based bank is Santander Bank. We distribute all the business over there. We distribute the agro business over there, in Bank Santander, right? And the broker is a sort of captive broker that belongs to bank Santander. It's not a broker that belongs to the market, if you understand what I mean, right? And we are, let's say, every time one of the key challenges for us down here in Brazil is to look for new brand, new ecosystems for distributing products, right? And we see many, let's say, possibilities to grow in different ways of distributing products, especially on the digital model using those, let's say, sales platform available to the market. And probably, we are going to -- also to close much more deals. We are going to do much more deals with some, let's say, automakers' bank, banks that belongs to automakers and banks that belongs to the producers of agro equipment. So we have a very close relationship with those banks that belongs to those automakers. And this is a brand new ecosystems distribution model for us from now on, okay?

[Interpreted] Thank you. So another one from Oichi-san from Aberdeen. So on Slide 9, I'd like to ask you, regarding the peers at the top, which are losing the share, what is the reason why the peers are losing share? Another type of question is also from Mr. Sakamaki, Mizuho Securities. Regarding the competitive environment, some are losing market share, some are winning market share. But regarding this, I'm wondering which ones are winning and which ones are losing? Could you just explain more on this market share, please, Ferrara-san?

Yes. Let me tell you, let's say, the Brazilian market, right, especially when you go over the automakers, right, auto insurance industry, that auto is, let's say, in the entire market represent for our benchmark companies, all those companies that you are seeing in the Page 9 and they are very strong players in the auto business, right? At least more than 60% of their portfolio mix is auto business. We are 60%. And basically, they are losing market share, much of that is coming to us. We are growing to that business. And sometimes they are losing to the price not having a competitive price like us. That's their reality, right? And the price quality combined with the quality of delivering to brokers and customers make a lot of difference in my country over here. Brokers has a lot of clout, a lot of influence on the client's decision. So if the brokers down to the class, please, you can buy the product from Tokio Marine because they deliver with quality, it is something available, and we had conquered that trust from brokers as the timing went by, right? And other companies, they are losing that shine. That's their reality. If you go, for example, on the right corner, you see the company over there, it's a Japanese company as well, Sompo, they just sold their business, the auto business to Hanover HDI because they are not to make money in that time. They lost a lot of share. At the end of the day, they decided to sell the auto business and retail business to HDI. And the same happens with Liberty as well. That was in a stable market share, as you can see. So those 3 companies Hanover HDI, plus Liberty plus the retail portion, retail segment of Sompo is under control of HDI at this point in time. And now I'm going to tell you, we are also gaining, let's say, share from that HDI combination with Liberty and Sompo, we are getting, let's say, some policies coming from both companies because they like the quality of Tokio Marine delivery. That's their reality. So Tokio Marine has, like I told you, is the fourth largest company operating in Brazil. And that give us -- and also we are a multiline property. We are not just automating. We have a big multiline product more than 60 products. So for the broker with a certain customer. Sometimes is better for that broker to concentrate basing with Tokio Marine because we are in all line of business, not just auto or just fleet, for example, for a company, for example, not just we do property, we do D&O, we do surety, we do fleet, et cetera, et cetera. So one of the beauty of Tokio Marine Brazil is being a multiline company, a multiproduct company, and we got diversified portfolio, more than 60 products like I mentioned to you. And with all the tools for delivering with quality including the 24-hour assistance belong to us. And we deliver with quality, and we measure the quality in daily basis that I mentioned before. So that's the reason why we are growing market share and others are losing market share, because they don't have the same strategy offers.

[Interpreted] Thank you. So Mr. Ferrara talked about the multiline business that TMSR has. Regarding this, Mr. Niwa from Citigroup has a related question. How are you increasing the types of business lines. When you look at the industry data, we understand that you are top class in auto insurance. But for other ones like P&C or life, it seems like there is much more room for you to expand. So what are your initiatives regarding expansion of insurance or business lines other than auto, please?

Yes. Let's say, when we move, for example, one of the, let's say, one of the key challenges that we have in place over here is, I would like to have a sort of growth in the life business. Let me give you an example, right? And life business, we have many, but at least 2 key insurance company, niche companies like MetLife, certainly, you are familiar to MetLife and Prudential one, Prudential, a Boston-based company. And life business, it is a sort of products, let's say, being sold by banks, the banks loves to distribute life business because they have the client on hands, right? And we, on the other hand, we use, let's say, specialized brokers that are specialized in life business in order to use those brokers in order to grow our market. But bancassurance bookers. Let's say, when you see the production of banks, I would say. I would tell you I would affirm you the biggest portfolio mix is life business. So it's hard to compete against banks. They have the clients on hands. And my challenge over here is to have a life business at least something like 8% to 10% of our portfolio mix as the time goes by. It is difficult to reach that number, but it's something that we wanted to pursue, to grow in the life business. When we go to commercial lines, for example, Tokio Marine has been one of the first commercial line business in Brazil, right? We are the first one in marine. We are the first one in engineering. We are the first one in the green energy, like I told you during my presentation. We are the first one in D&O and surety. And we still have, let's say, with mega brokers, let call mega brokers like Marsh, Aon, Willis Towers Watson, those companies, they have a very strong relationship with us. Tokio Marine is by far one of the first, is the first insurance companies that buy reinsurance in the Brazilian market because we have a very strong commercial line of business that demands the buy of reinsurance protection. And also, we have local and midsized brokers that has been growing fast. But I feel recently a sort of move because many of those, let's say, middle-sized brokers, they've been bought by large brokers and multinational brokers in the market like Gallagher, like Marsh and Aon and those multinational brokers, they are, let's say, in order to grow their participation in the Brazilian market. Many of them are buying those mid-sized brokers, Brazilian brokers that we have in the Brazilian market. What happens is that many of those brokers, let's say, they are becoming, let's say, they don't have their children they have no interest in giving a continuation of the brokerage company. So they are in a position to be open to, let's say, to sell their brokerage company to other companies like Gallagher, like Marsh, Aon, and Towers Watson, et cetera, et cetera, okay? And I would like to reinforce that our partnership with those brokers, it is, let's say, keep us -- it is a broker choice. And brokers, they see Tokio Marine, like I told you, as a multi-line company, many of them, they prefer to keep doing business with us because we have a bunch of portfolio products to be offered to their clients. And sometimes you, let's say, we have what we call the sort of unique vision of the client. If that client, let's say, they become more loyal to Tokio Marine, the better it will be to that client. We call that, let's say, a unique vision by the client or just one vision by the client. So the client could be having with us, let's say, property at the same time surety and D&O and the fleet of that client. When they concentrate all those lines of business, we can, let's say, give a better price for our fleet. In order to compensate with property and compensate with surety and D&O. So we see the total revenue coming from that customer, if you understand what I mean. And that makes difference in the Brazilian market. And being a multiline company allow us to do that.

[Interpreted] Thank you. So we have so many more questions. So we would probably use all of the rest of our time up until 10:30. Thank you very much for bearing with us. We have from Hanaoka, Mr. Hanaoka from JPMorgan, several questions. So we understand that you are able to price very competitively. But in terms of the administrative expense ratio on Page 11, 8.5% compared to peers, you are double score, triple score, extremely good. But we, again, want to ask you why you're able to achieve this. We understand that you have insourced your system, but can you please give us more details? And regarding the other peers, why is it that they cannot just copy, TMSR?

We go to administrative expense with 8.5%. And by the way, in first semester of 2024, that number drops to 7.8%, right? And it is something that we have an excellent control of those expenses, right? And we prefer to raise the productivity of each employee using a good automation process instead of having people to handle process. For example, if you go to auto business, basically, nobody puts the hands on the auto business. There is no manual activity for issuing a policy. 100% of the policy for the retail market, including homeowners, auto and condominium, those kind of business, let's say, PME property, SME property. Nobody puts hands over there. It's 100% automated in the entire underwriting process. And we give a priority to automate the process and using also sometimes AI technology that I talk a little bit in some slides. And in the claims department, for example, we use AI technology to decide if it is something that is necessary to decline the risk that claims are to go forward to the court with that situation. And AI also helped us to have a good decision. So we have a positive cycle containing, premium, IT and personal costs, right? And let's say, the premium goes up, as you can see, right, when the premium goes up, and keeping the same HR. Remember that I told you that in the last 12 years, we just grew 60% in terms of our HR and the gross written premium has grown 633%. So a big difference, right? And that is due to the raising of productivity by each employee. And the raise of that productivity, it is, let's say, 100% basically on training of those employees and technology that we put in place of our process. That is the key of our success over here.

[Interpreted] Mr. Sakamaki from Mizuho and Mr. Hanaoka from JP Morgan has given us very similar questions regarding the wonderful IT system that you have. But as you know, Tokio Marine Holdings is very much focused on synergy thinking about the best efficiency of TMSR. We're wondering how we can show synergy to other group companies under the Tokio Marine Holdings. Or what kind of synergy are you receiving from other group companies under the holdings? If you have any examples or best practices, let us know.

Yes. Yes. So let me tell you on the Page 16, yes, 16, I talked about the DataRobot, right? Now page 16 on the page that you are showing as -- sorry, Page 18. And as you can see, we have an Einstein committee, Einstein committee is a sort of committee formed by several departments over here. We have more than, let's say, 18 departments on the Einstein Committee. And all of them with the -- all of them with at least 1 expert in AI, working that department instead of IT department in their department, I put the experts of AI in each department and getting, let's say, that expert running in that department, we can, let's say, get a lot of advantages of that. Let me give you an example. For example, when we -- claims notice comes in, right? And let's say, when that claims, we decided to, let's say, in a technical way, we decided to decline that claims, right? We made a consulting our AI technology to see the decline of that claims will give us any chance of that customers go to the court, right? And we prefer to do a good deal with that customer instead of going to the court. Our expenses regarding that is much lower than going to the court. And why I say to the court? Because in terms of AI, we got to know using AI technology, what is the behavior of all the just, all the courts that we have in our country over here. We have thousands of courts over here, and we know exactly which one is more favorable to the insurance industry or is more favorable to the client to the final customers. TMSR, I would say, in terms of initiatives for group synergies. TMSR has been contributing to Tokio Marine Group synergies by sharing productivity, its knowledge and expertise of IT processes and products with our group company since 2013, since 2013. We have received in numerous visitors of people from Tokio Marine Holding and group companies like Mexico, Hawaii, Malaysia, South Africa, et cetera, to learn about our operations, and we share it all documents and information they need. Recently, for example, in terms of auto pricing, I give you a real example. If you go to Malaysia. Malaysia, they stayed with us at least for 1 whole month to learn how we price in the Brazilian market and Malaysia operation has used our pricing model here to replicate that model in Malaysia where they are one of the great producer of auto business over there. So that kind of synergies, something that as the time goes by, we are even raising that bar of sharing expertise. Nowadays, for example, I've been talking with my fellows from HCC as well. They are experting on agro business over there as well. So we have chances also to learn with them, and we are doing that. So that kind of change we have been doing a lot to be here. That's the beauty of being a multinational or global company. That's the beauty, right? We have advantages from the national Brazilian companies that they don't have that the advantages that we have over here. And let's take the advantage of that, and let's take the opportunity to keep growing in a sustainable growth. That's what we are doing over here.

[Interpreted] Thank you. So in the interest of time, we would like to take 1 last question, and that is from MDIC, Mr. Okajima. We'd like to talk to Page 22. On Page 22, you have the KPI regarding customers. So customer satisfaction KPI. You said you have 18 that you measure every day. So what are the specific contents of this? Let us know.

On the page 18, I said this 18 KPIs. I may give you real examples that from every day at 0 hours of the day until 24 hours, we get -- we send an SMS to the customer and we ask him to answer to us, just send an SMS back to us, what is the rate from 0 to 10 regarding how much they are satisfied with the services that was done. For example, suppose that we just conclude a car repair shopping, okay? When the customers get his car back, I got to know that he just got his car back from the repair shop. And I send an SMS to him. Please, what is -- how satisfied are you with the services being done by Tokio Marine car repair shop. And he give us that message. When he receive that message, we use the Net Promoter Score. And the concept of Net Promoter Score when we receive grades from 8, 9 and 10 and then they are promoting our brand, right? When we receive a grades from 6 to 7, they are, let's say, they are not promoting our brand and 1 to 6, they are, let's say, not promoting the brand. So we have during the claims closure, we do that survey with the customer in our call center as soon as the customer just finish a call center, we ask, please could you answer how satisfied are you with the services that I just did for you. Also in our 24-hour service, remember that I told you that we internalize that and one of the beauty of internalizing that function is that we put in place that survey as soon as we conclude that service, right? When a tow truck goes to get a car, for example, as soon as that to tow truck gets the address where the customer is, that trucker driver needs to tell us what is the plate number of that car. When he sent to us the plate number, I know exactly what is the time frame -- the time stamp that truck driver got the address of that customer. And I measure it also if it was possible to get less than 50 minutes to attend that customer. So those kind of services using the claims handling, using the 24-hour assistance. We're using the quality being delivered by the care car repair shop or the house repair shop when a homeowner asks us to do services, for example, any damage on the electric -- of the electrification of the house, we send the technician as well. We ask for that customer, how satisfied is he with that service. So we do that every day for more than 10 years. If you're asking me, what is the let's say, the number of satisfaction that we had 10 years ago, I mean to tell you exactly by line of products. And every year we are, let's say, putting new services, and we are improving also those KPIs. And those KPIs is part of our customer satisfaction evaluation of all the employees. It's part of our what we call profit share with our company, with our 2,400 employees. All the employees, they have a participation in the quality of services being perceived by the customer. And the number being perceived by the customers has been gaining from those 18 KPIs. So all the employees are very committed with the quality of services mainly -- as well because it's part of the profit share or their bonus participation in the company as well, again, being a clear voice to you, okay?

[Interpreted] Thank you very much. We understand how TMSR has wonderful culture and passion. Thank you very much for that. And with this, we would like to close today's Tokio Marine Insights. So if there are any questions that we could not address today, IR team will make sure we address them later on. So if you have any comments or opinions about today's presentation or topics you would like Tokio Marine Insights to cover in the future, please feel free to share them with us by typing them in the chat box at the bottom of the screen. Thank you again for your participation. [Portions of this transcript that are marked [Interpreted] were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]