Toyota Motor Corporation (7203) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Hello. This is Akio Toyoda. Thank you for taking the time to come here today. I just shared the new Toyota Group vision and attitudes that show the direction in which the Toyota Group should proceed with the Chairman, President and frontline leaders of the 17 group companies at the Toyota Commemorative Museum of Industry and Technology, which will be the starting point of our group companies. I'd like to talk by -- and start talking a little bit about the history of the Toyota Group. Please take a look at the screen. This diagram is the lineage of the Toyota Group, starting with the establishment of Toyota [ Shotan ] in 1895. Sakichi Toyoda wanted to help his mother who, struggled with weaving. With this single-minded determination, he invented the Toyoda wooden hand loom in 1890. Thinking of others, learning, honing skills, making things and bringing smiles to people's faces, I believe that this passion and attitude toward invention is truly the starting point of the Toyota Group. Following this was the establishment of Toyota Boshoku and Toyota Automatic Loom Works. As you can see, our lineage diagram extends vertically. Kiichiro Toyoda started to get actively involved in the business in the 1930s. At that time, the technological standards of Japanese industry were lagging far behind the West. It is not just about making automobiles. With Japanese ideas and skills, we must create an automobile industry for Japan. With this strong result, Kiichiro set out to completely revolutionize Japanese industry. Many companies in the parts, steel, rubber and electronics industries started following in Toyota's footsteps. The Toyota Group's lineage diagram also extends horizontally as we have formed alliances with companies that have their own unique aspects and strengths. Our vertical lineage will continue to evolve with our unwavering purpose to pave the way for the future. And our horizontal lineage will continue to evolve together with our like-minded partners. You could say we have been living in an automobile industry that has been woven by the threats of warp and weft spun by our predecessors. However, as the automobile industry developed and Toyota Group companies started to experience success, they lost sight of the values and priorities that should have been upheld. I'm ashamed to admit that such situations have arisen. The first company to face such a situation was Toyota Motor Corporation itself. We pursued the expansion of scale, prioritizing volume and profitability over the making of ever-better cars and ultimately fell into the [ red ] for the first time in company history during the 2008 financial crisis. As a result, we caused inconvenience to many people who support the automobile industry. Furthermore, we lost the trust of our customers, which is of the utmost importance to us, due to global [ recall ]. I consider Toyota to have once collapsed during that time. With every ounce of myself and the help of our partners, we have finally rebuilt the company to the point where it can't be called a carmaker again. However, it was not only Toyota that lost sight of its founding principles. I believe that the same thing that happened to Toyota back then is currently happening to other group companies. During the recalls in 2009, I made a decision to take full responsibility for the past, present and future as a person fully responsible for whole Toyota. 14 years have passed since then, and I still believe that I am responsible for the entire Toyota Group. What I must do right now is to show the direction that group should proceed in and create a place for the next generation to return to if they falter. In other words, what I'm must do is set forth a vision for the group. The starting point of the Toyota Group is to make ever better things that make many people happy. In other words, to invent -- inventing our path forward together. Under this vision, we all should embrace a spirit of invention within us, think of others, hone our skills and continue to make the right things for them. In doing so, we will build a culture in which we can express gratitude to each other and become needed in the future. Today, at the Toyota Commemorative Museum of Industry And Technology, which can be considered our starting point, we made a pledge to each other. As the person responsible for the Toyota Group, I believe the transformation, and I hope that I can count on your continued support. In closing, I would like to express my deepest apology to our customers and stakeholders for the inconvenience and concern caused by the successive irregularities at Hino Motors, Daihatsu and Toyota Industries. Initially, the group vision was to be shared on February 14, the birthday of Sakichi Toyoda. However, considering the recent situation of our group companies, we have decided to do this in advance of the date end to make an announcement to the media as well. Today I would like to answer your questions about our group vision. Thank you very much for your cooperation. Please allow me to sit down.

From here, we would like to move on to the question-and-answer session. I am Tomikawa -- Yuto Tomikawa, which will be the facilitator. And we don't only have the physical venue, but also many participants on -- participating online as well. We do want to receive as many questions as possible, so may we ask you to keep your questions to two questions per person. And also, we'd like to divide the time that we'll ask questions from the physical venue, and then we'll have secure enough time to ask questions from the website participant from the online participants. We'll first start from the physical revenue, if you can raise your hand, and there will be the microphone brought to you from our staff. Please wait for the microphone. And we'll start from the person in the front, please.

TBS TV, Umeda is my name. I have two questions. My first question, as you have explained, ahead of this press conference, we have heard that you've provided an explanation of the group vision to the top management of the group companies. Your group is seeing the continuous incidents occurring. And how have the group companies taken this situation? What kind of communication did you have during the session in the morning or any impressions that you may have after that? That's my first question.

Well, rather than vision, actually, there is no company that will be managing the group companies. So as a main purpose -- so for governance, my understanding was about controlling and to manage the organization. But a governance in corporations is the -- to create the management structure so that a healthy operation can be continued. And for what I have been doing inside of this company, Toyota, is to bring back the [ sovereignty ] or the power back to the gemba, so that even whatever position you're standing in, you will be able to participate in the management of the company's activities. This was the governance in my style. So if I try to sound cool, it may be saying that having this tagline or slogan, let's make ever better cars having that very simple vision, creating a workplace environment that everyone can take part in and contribute. So it will be a vision-driven management, a gemba-based management and also a product-based management. I think that would be describing the style of manage -- the governance that I had. And if you look up governance, it is -- there is also a word to lead and to pick up the anchor of a ship. So rather than governing, controlling or managing as an official terminology of the governance in a dictionary, I think it's -- what I've been doing is much closer to what we are looking for. And in Toyota, we have the philosophy, the skills and the conductor or behavior at the gemba, that was the gemba of Toyota. And also, as I said earlier, we had a very simple vision that was let's make ever better cars. And more than anything else, I think myself currently, for the present, past and future, I was clearly saying that I am the person to take the final responsibility and full responsibility. And what I try to do is to bring back the sovereignty and power back to the gemba, and that is why we were able to improve -- we try to work on our governance. And we talk about the deterioration of companies in 5 stages. That's a theme that is usually talked about. In that sense, for the Toyota Group, I wanted to be the person -- the final person -- the person that will take the full responsibility at the end. And by making that declaration myself, I think -- as I said before, the gemba would be able to think by themselves and take actions. That kind of workplace environment is what I wanted to create by placing myself as a person to take full responsibility. So for the group company top management and also the group leaders of each respective company were gathered in this very place, and we've talked together. So it wasn't just talking from my side on -- and the one-sided of communication. I received various questions from various people, including the gemba leaders of each companies. And based on their questions and comments, I tried to exchange my thoughts and have mutual communication. Initially, from myself to start off, I used some strong words. I thought that I will be dealt with strong words. And probably many people thought that when they gathered here, I will be speaking in strong words to them. But it went out of their expectation. And what I wanted to talk about is if we create this kind of environment that I try to create in the morning, everyone will be able to speak up. And I think the top leaders of the group companies that gathered in the morning were able to feel that and understand that today.

My second question, it is about the misconducts that has been continuing in sequence. As you have explained earlier, every better car making -- let's make ever better cars and happiness for all, these are the words from yourself, Chairman, when you have became the President of this company. So it was more like a flag and banner that you held. But now, we are seeing these continuing occurrence of the misconducts. And you have explained that the group's person responsible is you. So frankly, I'd like to ask the question. For these misconducts that we have been seeing, how do you accept this? How do you understand these? And another thing I'd like to ask is, this time, we are seeing the misconducts by the Toyota Group companies. But why is it that in the Toyota Group companies, there are so many incidents, misconducts happening and [ servicing ]? What do you think as the cause of this series of incidents?

Thank you for your second and third question. Well, I don't know how I will be answering to that. But starting with the second question. So misconducts, it is about doing something that we should have never have done. And for what we should not have done, what is it -- what is that? And for Daihatsu, Hino and also [ Teiko ], what is common among these companies is that it is about the certification system. It was a misconduct against the certification process. And for myself on the -- I tried to read everything that was written on the third-party committee report. I wasn't able to because of the limited time. But when I have received a report from someone who have read every single page on that report, and the content was that Daihatsu, Hino and [ Teiko ], all of it, the common factor is that there was a misconduct on the tests of the certification process. And for the country of Japan, a certification test is about -- for the safety and quality and performance. It is a confirmation to see if the level is cleared. And if the level is not -- does not pass the test, then you will not be able to sell -- produce and sell that vehicle. So unless we pass the certification test, we won't be able to mass produce the car. But if with the mass production was done going through misconducts on the certification process, so that has -- that is what has happened. And Hino, [ Teiko ] and Daihatsu, originally, they are the companies that should not produce and sell because they have conducted misconduct for the certification process. So they have been delivering the products to customers, which should then they should have not done, which they were not allowed to. So that was the fact. And I would say, once again, this is -- this should not have been done. And because we have the certification process and tests, the customers can have a peace of mind and feel safe in riding the vehicle that they buy. But that -- this is the very certification process that these companies has conducted a misconduct. And having a misconduct is to betray the trust. And also, it will be a very heavy thing that we will be undermining the whole validity of the system. So we'd like to express our apology for this, but it will take time to recover the trust back from our customers. So now I -- as a person who will be the person taking full and final responsibility, I want to take the lead and [ explain it ]. But when I was the President of TMC, I was the leader on the execution side, too. So I was able to make a decision myself and then to take the actions. That was the position before when I was President. But now, I am the person responsible for the top -- the whole group, but I'm not the top leader or the executive man top -- Chief Executive Officer for the company. So now, I will be taking upon the experiences that I have built. And also, TMC is the company that had lost its trust most. So using my past experience, I'd like to think about how -- use my experience on bringing back Toyota as a carmaker. And the experience that I have built through the years, I think I will be able to take on consultation or questions and be able to provide some advice to the group companies that are faced with similar situations now. Now, it will be probably taking the same or more time than what took TMC or it might be shorter. But for what has happened for the 3 companies, we tend to talk and focus more about the prevention measures for reoccurrence. And also -- but it's important to look at the cause of this. But if the cause was just one cause, then it will be easier to come up with solutions. But for these cases, this is a phenomenon that we -- have occurred from the overlaps of many, many causes, and that is -- has been surfacing. I have -- it's 1 year after I stepped down as President. And now in this kind of change point, where we see the top leader transitioning, I thought on one side, it might be a good thing because we're seeing these bad things surfacing in this transition period. And now I am the Chairman, and therefore, to the executive officers of TMC and to the other leaders of the group companies, I have been a little hesitant not wanting to really intervene too much to be polite and respective. But after this kind of attitude for a year, I am -- now have the resolve to once again fully expose myself as a full person responsible for the Toyota Group companies and be more visible. So I am not going to be behind the scenes and be controlling behind the scenes. And of course, I'm not willing to be [ visible ], always be in the front line -- obviously, in the front and be doing everything myself. But what I want to do is to take advantage of the power and the sovereignty that we return to the gemba and also at the group companies do make sure that can be the power for improvements and also to achieve our group vision as the first step to achieve our group vision. Okay. May we take next question, please?

This is Sagito from [indiscernible] newspaper. So this place, the Toyota Commemorative Museum of Industry and Technology, is the starting point for your company and one of the most important place for the group, I'm sure. And timing-wise, this is after the expansion of misconducts for your group companies, including Daihatsu and [ Teiko ]. And then there is a severe attention being paid to your conduct. And the fact that you are announcing the vision from your [ math ] directly, is there any particular reason for that? And then also, can you explain this reason and the timing and also this place?

Yes. So this is about the Toyota Group. So it should not be at the headquarter or corporate of any one particular company. And we said that -- we thought that we should choose a place that is equidistance of all of the companies and have commonalities, and we came up with this place, Toyota Commemorative Museum of Industry and Technology. And I didn't think much more than that. That's why we chose it here. And in the past, in this place, we used to have a gathering a session of the top management of Toyota Group members. I had such memories. Therefore, in order for us to restart, I thought that this would be a suitable place to restart ourselves, instead of a headquarter of Toyota. But I thought that this place, Toyota Commemorative Museum, will be a suitable place, and that was the reason.

Another question is that from all [ then ] times, you've always had a -- 5 main principles of Toyota, and you have Toyota Guiding Principles and also Toyota Way 2020, et cetera. So with your history and tradition, you've been having these series of principles and this new vision, let's invent the way forward, which is new for you. In light of various principles from the past, are there any common points or any changes or evolutions that you've made? If there is any emphasizing point, we would love to hear.

Well, regarding this vision, let's invent the way forward, well, in this word, it includes current and past and future. So way forward, it is the future. And then the way is now. And also, the invention is the starting point for us because we started with the invention. So we try to include 3 of them and then in modern way. And then as for the vision for everybody, we wanted to work together on this future path. Actually, English one is easier to understand, inventing a path forward together. It says path -- something path together. So anyone -- we have this English vision. And it's not a direct translation, but I think it was inventing some path.

It's inventing a path forward together.

I thought this would be more meaningful than Japanese because we are inventing the next path. That is included in -- what's included in English and missing in Japanese is the word together. And what the road in Japanese is expressed as path in English. These kind of terminologies -- when I became the President of Toyota, we say, let's make ever better car. And that was a vision. And the media often ask me, "What are you talking about? Because we don't understand." You can't even announce a numerical target. That was a very common question and in this time as well. And also from our employees, they often ask me, "So what kind of cars are ever better cars?" And I said, "Isn't it something that you all should think about?" So I never mentioned what is the car that's ever better cars. And that is why Toyota has come up with a variety of vehicles. If I mentioned a typical car that I think is a better car, then it would be only a sports car. But we need working vehicles, commodity vehicles and family-type vehicles, too, and then cars that did not do a model change for a long time. And together with the [ NGA ] company system and with the vision-based management, so many different types of cars came out. So with this vision, the Board -- next or the [ platform ] is understandable by everyone. But for this whole vision, it can be interpreted in many things. And then the fact that we are using the word invention, we want to use this at the core of our vision. And then that's inventing these things and products. We thought that this would be a good motive or good emblem for us.

In your first question, I think you also asked about the reason and the timing that you chose for this announcement. For timing, I understand that you made it earlier than this 14th of February, which was originally planned.

Yes, yes. So we planned on the 14th of February because of the series of incidents. And honestly, I waited for this press conference of [ Teiko ] yesterday. And then I did not have any other day than today if I wanted to do this immediately. Understood. Thank you very much.

I'm Yao from Nikkei Papers, Nikkei Shimbun. So in the vision, it's inventing our path forward together. And I think you showed it's about working on the future activities. So -- and you also said you're going to look at Toyota company's -- Group companies once again as a person that will take the final responsibility. So can you be a little more specific about what you're planning to do for the activities, going forward? This is my first question.

So even if you ask me about specific or concrete activities in mind, actually, there's none yet. But what I have in mind is I am going to take action. And today, I had the top management of the group companies and with the gemba group leaders, what I asked everyone in this room was let's invent the future path for together. And I said that the sovereignty of this company, the power of this company has been returned to the gemba, return to the product. This is what I've done in TMC, and I want the respective companies to think of what it means for their companies, too. That's what I said to the audience in the morning. And what I said next is that once every company -- while they are all independent companies and separate companies, so once they start thinking about these topics, then in June, there's going to be the General Shareholders Meeting for all 17 companies. And I said to them, "I'm going to join and participate in your General Shareholders Meeting from the position of a shareholder. And I will be observing your company and learn from your company as I participate in the General Shareholders Meeting in the shareholder seat." So the first thing that is planned is that I will attend the General Shareholders' Meeting in June. Up to now from the shareholders, the group companies have the shareholders' meeting on the same day, and we are not able to attend all of the meetings. That is the kind of comment, opinion that I have received when I was chairing the General Shareholders Meeting from TMC. But because I want to -- because of these opinions, we have tried to change the dates of all the group companies. So if I want to, I think I can go to all of these meetings. So what I'm planning to do in June is to attend from the shareholder seat and to see and observe what kind of company the group company is from the shareholders' perspective. So there will be several months until June. So I want to see what they have thought and what they have done for their companies. And I want to do an opinion exchange at the June General Shareholders' Meeting.

Understood. My second question is about the misconducts incidents that is occurring at the group companies. And looking at the investigation report, it talks about pursuing [ emissions ] and efficiency, and people wanted to pass the test -- certification test in one time. So pursuing too much efficiency, the quality and safety was not secured. That is the kind of report that we are reading. So TPS is important for Toyota, and I think the source of competitiveness for Toyota is TPS and the efficiency -- high efficiency. So efficiency and quality, in order to balance these two, what do you think is important? Can you share your thoughts?

Well, for Toyota Production System, TPS, the objective is not to pursue efficiency? No. The Toyota Production System's objective is to create a work environment so that the improvements, the kaizen can be pursued. So first of all, whatever kind of company it is, I think that there will be certain issues occurring in that company. Whatever we do now for preventive measures, there will be a time that another issue will occur sometimes in the future. And then how we will be dealing with those issues. I think that's part of your question. So in the way of thinking in TPS, there is this way of thinking of abnormality management. It will be very difficult to manage everything to be in the normal state. Then what we should do is to understand and determine what is the abnormality state? What is it that we should not allow? So to understand what is not normal, then we can do that abnormality management and to fix first what goes beyond normal. And then that is how we use TPS and then to continue to turn the cycle of the normal management. That will be then at the result, continue to improve efficiency. But when we take on a different challenge, if we have changes, I'm sure that there will be other issues or problems occurring. But when those issues occur, we don't shouldn't leave it as it is until it develops like these serious issues that we are seeing today. We need to fix and deal with the issues when they occur and when they are still small. We have to recover that kind of a character or capability as an organization. And because of this, -- because of this understanding, I thought that it is very important to have a vision for the whole group as a starting point for us. And so based on this vision, I want to take action, like go to the shareholders' meeting, also to listen to people's thoughts and to be -- try to explore how people understand what is normal and what is not normal. And for myself, even if I want to do all of this, I have only 2 eyes, 2 ears, and I only have 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. So if I have only the same conditions as you all have, therefore, there will be a limit in what I can do alone. But more than a decade ago, when I became President, compared to that time, now I have people who are very frank with me. Many of my fellows, my partners, there are more of these people who I can rely on. And then this has been built in the 14 years as I was President. So I want to be able to utilize this network that how I have and working on what I have said. Therefore, I hope that you will continue to watch us with your strict eyes but also with a long-term perspective. Thank you very much.

I do see many more hands up, but now more than 60 people are joining us online. So we now would like to take questions from online participants. If you have any questions online, please switch button on the scene, and we will call on you. And if you are called, then please turn on your camera and microphone. [ Terasaki ] san, please go ahead. We are going to switch the screen. And once your face is on the screen, start your question, please.

This is [ Terasaki ] from [indiscernible]. I have 2 questions. The first one being that -- the question -- the first question is about the misconduct. Hino, Daihatsu and TICO, it happened successively. And that means that within the group, many people are doubtful that there might be misconducting more countries -- companies within the group. So Chairman -- if you -- if there is any employee who has any -- who knows about the misconduct within the group, then I'm sure that you -- are you in a position or is the company in the position that they are free to speak up and let their superiors know. The reason I'm asking you is because if you look at any report about this misconduct, there is a statement that they were hesitant in reporting to their superiors. So it would be nice if you can publicly announce that if there is any more misconduct within the group, please speak up. And the second question is that now you are showing this vision and because you are responsible for the group, what is the goal you have in your mind -- you became the global #1, 4 years consecutively. And in 2022, you had the highest production [indiscernible]. So there was a significant growth since 2009. And the fact that you are now responsible for the whole group, what is the goal for you?

Yes. So are there any misconduct or not? As far as I know, there is none. And today, I said this day to be the day for this announcement because it was yesterday that the TICO had a press conference, and I knew that before hand, and that is why I chose today as the day for this session. And whether or not I'm responsible for the group -- and what kind of difference would that make to this announcement is that the timing might be delayed for the announcement. For example, at Hino, after I found out. It was announced to the general public after 1 year, and Daihatsu took 6 months. And also TICO took more than 10 months -- 6 months. And then if I understood about this phenomenon from the very beginning, I would have announced it much earlier because I am the person responsible. I could do that because I am the person responsible -- and when I attended the congressional hearing 14 years ago, I was the President of Toyota. And at that time, it took about 3 months for me to find out many facts even though I was the President, things that happened at Gemba, even though I worked around Gemba and try to collect the information with my capability, there was some limitation. So it took about 3 months for me to find out many facts and that was the gap. However, since then, -- at Toyota, the top-down means top going down to the Gemba and then collecting the information himself or herself. And there are people who observe me, who observe my conduct and behavior. So at least now that I am volunteering myself as a person responsible for the group. People are thinking, well, I can speak up. And then because I'm responsible, then they are allowed to have a long-term commitment, and they have a peace of mind, I believe. Also this morning, when I saw top management, Gemba leaders in the Q&A sessions made very honest questions. People were very diversified. And many types of members asked questions at the Q&A and an atmosphere for people to enable people to speak up work related in the past 14 years, I believe. Of course, I should not depend upon that only, but at least, that's something I have in my mind or at least that's in the minds of employees too. It's not that I can solve everything myself. But at least, whenever they have concern, it is something that I can do, I cannot do. They have counterparts with face -- visible phase for them to speak to. And I think we need to make progress step by step from there. And so what is the goal? There is no goal. It is true for TPS too, but before and after improvements, we have to continue to do certain things. In other words, if I dare to say as a goal. Those people who have the same or similar sense, I have to create top management members who have a similar sensors as me. And I would like to give advice or talk with them and then also encourage them so that they can gain those sensors. And as a result, I hope that the Toyota Group has a lot of human assets, and I envy you, and I would say that will be my goal.

And at the first question if you want the people to talk -- to report to you about their anxieties or concerns. And actually, I was here in the morning session. And when the young Gemba leaders asked the question, he responded like if you have something -- a question in mind, come to me with your facts and consult -- come to me to speak with me. We'll go on to the next question from [indiscernible], Thomson Reuters [Operator Instructions]

I'm [indiscernible] from Thomson Reuters. I'd also like to ask 2 questions. For my first question. Earlier, Chairman Toyoda, you said that you have no goals. But as the person responsible for the whole Toyota Group, what is the term that you are thinking of? What -- as a person responsible, what do you think will be an achievement that -- your achievement? Well, for Kaizen, there is no goal. But maybe you have an idea in mind like maybe within 2 years or 3 years, you want to see a certain state achieved with the efforts from now? So that's my first question. If you have a certain idea of what you want to achieve? And my second question, you were saying that you're creating a working environment so that governance in your words was that people will be able to join the management of the company from whatever position? And can I understand that when you are going to be looking at the governance of the group companies, you're going to have a more stronger grip on the companies. Of course, in the -- from the past, there were many employees or more executives being dispatched to the group companies in the past. And when you become the person responsible, are you going to be reviewing the capital relationships? Will that be included in order to strengthen the -- uniting Toyota Group companies? Is that an option for you to think about?

Well, thank you for your questions. So I said that I have no goals. But if you ask me, is there a certain achievement, I'm looking at a certain time frame? Actually, I don't know. I have the experience of being President of TMC. And after 14 years, I've handed -- passed on to Baton to President Sato. So that's the kind of probably feeling that I'll have working on this activity as well -- from this position as well. So myself being the President and then to myself or to the current TMC, there are -- I thought that no one would come to me and say that, okay, you've been President for enough. Now you have to step down. I thought that I have to make a judgment and decision on myself when I'm going to pass the baton. That is how I came to the conclusion and decision that I'm going to pass the baton to the next President. And the thought that I had is that Toyota, in order to transform into a mobility company, the -- I have been able to establish the foundation of Toyota as a carmaker. And also, I was able to build up the strength and capacity of Toyota. So going forward, in order to lead this company to transform into the mobility company, I thought that a younger generation will be more fit. If the leader is more the younger -- from the younger generation than the people who will support the transformation can be more diversified. So in that sense, I made that decision to pass the baton to the next young leader. I'm thinking of that experience of passing the baton for President for the Toyota Group company, even though I'm the person to take responsibility, I'm not going to be like the Chair for the whole of companies or the President of the group companies. So in that sense, -- what I'm thinking of is that the sovereignty of the power will be -- should be returned to the Gemba and the product. That belief has not changed. So the grip that you talked about, the group and how you have expressed is not what I'm thinking of. It's more to have a focus on the Gemba, focus on the products. So that maybe there will be a stronger grip on those aspects, if I try to use the word grip. So now I'm the Chairman of Toyota, but I also continue to hold the role of the master driver in Toyota, on my name card, it's still [indiscernible]. And as a master driver, I'm still brushing up my sensors so that we can make decisions to make ever better cars. So that is still remaining in the roles that I hold in this company. So from that perspective as well, for Daihatsu, Hino, and TICO, if I'm going to be a master driver for these companies? The answer is no. It's too late to do that. It's too late to have -- to learn how to drive the forklifts or the large commercial vehicle license. It's just hard -- tough for me to do now. And it will be too late for me to make decisions -- to learn and make decisions on the various Daihatsu model projects. It will be impossible for me to do that. So what I asked the top leaders in the morning is that you should think about making the master driver in your company to have appoint someone as a master driver of your company. And then what kind of person you have selected as the master driver is what I will be watching. And probably, as I -- the grip, as I watched the master drivers being selected is where it will be starting probably.