Trajan Group Holdings Limited (TRJ) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Yes, I think we have a lot of people here. So, I'd like to welcome you all to this morning's webinar. Welcome to Trajan's Full Year Results Investor Webcast for FY 2024, the period ending the 30th of June 2024. [Operator Instructions] And today's webinar will feature a presentation from both our CEO and Managing Director, Mr. Stephen Tomisich; and Chief Financial Officer, Mr. Alister Hodges, followed by a Q&A. [Operator Instructions]. Please note, we will hold on all questions until the conclusion of the presentation. I would like now to hand over to Stephen Tomisich, our CEO and Managing Director of Trajan. Thank you, Stephen.

Good morning, and thank you, Marie. Thank you, everyone, for joining the call this morning. Fiscal '24, as many of you know, was quite an extraordinary year for us. But nonetheless, today, we'll have a brief report card for you that goes through a series of results that align very closely with the advice and the guidance that we gave back in early May. In terms of revenue, you will see a result at $155 million that was in the guidance range. Core EBITDA at $17.2 million, above slightly the range that we advised. And importantly, consolidated EBITDA more than doubled from the first half into the second half and gave a full year number over the $12 million mark. One of the other highlights of the year that you can take away is that we again made significant process or progress in strengthening the balance sheet with more than $4.7 million reduction in our net debt situation. You'll see some commentary in the presentation about how we head into fiscal '25. And we see ourselves consolidating right now and preparing for another stage of growth. But nonetheless, we remain quite cautious about what this current financial year may hold for us as we go into it. So, let's get into some of the slides and give you a bit more detail here. Fiscal '24, absolutely an extraordinary year. And you've heard us talk many times about destocking. And I will talk about it briefly again. This is an impact on our components and consumables business. And what we saw particularly in the first quarter of the financial year was significant destocking by our major customers of trade and manufactured product that they were holding and that was on the back of a similar thing happening in late fiscal '23. That put significant strain upon the business. And then we came into the second half with the order funnel returning strongly to a normal sort of pattern and gave us an additional challenge as to how do we then catch up with that order book. So, when we look at our components and consumables business, you'll see that it's very much the tale of 2 halves in terms of the first half, significantly underutilized infrastructure with the depletion of the order book. And then secondly, the second half, one where we were challenged and indeed have resource deployed at a penalty cost rate to try and make sure that we caught up in a time frame that was going to meet the needs of our customers. We also encountered in that second half, the weakness in the pharmaceutical-related capital equipment, and that played out in the numbers as well. But the overall takeaway here is that if we look at the net revenue result, we were still within 5% of the previous year. Now, if you consider what we've observed across the industry, that's a really solid outcome. And that fits the underlying resilience and robustness of the trade business. We've made some pretty good progress as well in some of the areas of our disruptive technologies, and we'll talk about that a little bit as we go through the deck. You'll see a series of slides here now that show performance over the previous 6 halves. First of all, we'll talk about the group level, then we'll talk about each of the sectors, components of consumables and capital equipment and then stepping into the disruptive areas. We'll talk a little bit about balance sheet and cash conversion and then wrap up with a couple of slides. So, it's quite a succeeding report out this morning. The key takeaway I want to give you on this slide before I hand over to Alister is that when we look at the impact on gross margin, that is really all about what happened in the components and consumables business. The significant underutilization of the infrastructure in the first half impacted the gross margin in that sector. And then the deployment of resource to drive the catch-up and the delay before we had the impact of that resource flow through really had an impact on the margin in the second half there. I'll hand over to Alister to give you a little bit more color around this particular slide to at the group level.

Thanks, Stephen. In FY 2024, net revenue was $155 million and was within the guidance range as suggested of $154 million to $157 million, and it was $7.2 million or 4.4% lower than the prior comparative period. Of the $7.2 million decrease, $0.6 million is related to disruptive technologies, $3 million to components and consumables and $3.4 million of capital equipment. Normalized EBITDA of the core business, excluding disruptive technologies for the year was $17.2 million, exceeding the top end as Stephen has suggested of the financial guidance range of $15.7 million to $17.1 million. Normalized EBITDA also includes research and development costs, which are expensed in full in the period incurred. During FY '24, the business invested $6.2 million in research and development costs of similar investment as the prior year. The cash balances remained stable comparable to June and December 2023 at $11.2 million. Net debt has also decreased by $4.7 million over the prior comparative period. Pro forma gross margin improved in the second half to 42.6%, resulting in a full year pro forma gross margin of 41.1%. Operating NPA decreased by $5.2 million over the prior comparative period, and that's explained in the main of the lower normalized EBITDA flow-through. Thanks, Stephen.

I'm sticking into components and consumables. Again, you can see the chart there that's highlighting the net revenue over the last 6 halves. Now, one of the things to take away from that slide is that the underlying demand has continued to grow through that period. What we're seeing here is revenue that we've recognized over that time frame. And so, one of the things we have to look at is, first of all, what is the impact of the destocking cycle that occurred during late fiscal '23 and more so in the first half of fiscal '24. But secondly, when you look at the last half, the second half of fiscal '24, we still had around $3 million worth of orders for components and consumables that we're unable to deliver in that time frame. One of the things that we do within the business is look at the long-term trends by product family and to understand not just what has happened in terms of sales, but what have we also seen in terms of the order level and the underlying trends. And when we review all that, it gives us significant confidence that this period of stocking and destocking is well behind us now in general and that the core product lines have all returned to their long-term growth trajectories. The exception to that in this particular area is that there are other components that tend to relate more so to the pharma or biotech sector. And those particular product families are the ones that are still storing a bit in terms of returning to a growth curve. Alister, anything else you want to add to this particular slide?

Probably just a couple of comments, Stephen. Just the full year revenue, again, at $96.2 million was lower than the prior comparative by $3.1 million for the factors that have been explained previously in the first half was impacted by mystery destocking with the order behavior demand returning to normal levels in the second half. The pro forma gross margin was also impacted by the same factors. With full year normalized EBITDA of $32.3 million is $1.5 million lower than the prior comparative period, explained predominantly by the lower pro forma gross margin on the lower level of sales.

Thanks, Alister. And then stepping over into capital equipment, you can see, as we expected, that it was a pretty soft second half here, and that was all about the pharma-related automated workflow systems. Again, as you look at this progression over the last 6 halves, I'll just remind everyone that last half of fiscal '23 at the $30.2 million, that's when we started to realize revenue that we were catching up on when we had significant delays during COVID in terms of being able to complete systems that will work in progress. And so, that's why we see that pattern back there. As we think about going into fiscal '25, we can still see that the order activity in the pharma-related area remains relatively weak. And therefore, we are remaining quite cautious about our projections into this financial year. Having said that, I have to concede that we completed fiscal '24 with the scale of the capital equipment order book still at $9 million which is pretty much where it was at the same time last year. And part of that is that we're seeing the benefits of the diversification of that capital equipment book, particularly into food safety applications. As we go into fiscal '25, we're hoping to start to see further diversification of our workflow solutions, I've discussed with everyone before the way we've been building up the global team to not just have a focus on pharma and food-related workflows, but also clinical and environmental. A key area in environmental that many of us, of course, have heard about in the media is the presence and the concern around forever chemicals. And we will see over the next few months that in the U.S. Trade will release a fully automated workflow in line with U.S. EPA protocol for the determination of PFAS components in soil, and we're closely working with partners in the U.S. and in other jurisdictions around automated workflows for PFAS in blood off the back of our micro-sampling technologies. And, Alister, I'll turn to you again to see if there's anything else you want to add from a financial point of view on this sector.

Sure. Thanks, Stephen. And just again, net revenue in the second half of '24 was lower than anticipated as Stephen suggested, the softening demand in the pharmaceutical sector. This segment did maintain pro forma gross margin of 42.2% for the full year compared to FY '23 at 40.3%. And the full year normalized EBITDA of $9.7 million is $2.3 million lower than the prior comparative period, and that's explained by $1.4 million lower pro forma margin due to lower sales and slightly higher operating costs.

And finally, on the segment reporting in disruptive technologies, we saw the circa 30% uplift in the second half as we had projected. Also, as projected, the rate of loss in this sector was reduced by about $1 million due to some of the restructuring and cost initiatives that we executed in fiscal '24. Again, if we're looking over this 3-year period, I'll remind everyone that as we go further back in time here with regards to the micro-sampling area in particular, that there was COVID research-related revenues back in fiscal '22 and '23, whereas as we go into this late '23, '24, it is very much now in our target areas of therapeutic drug monitoring, toxicology, and a number of other target areas that are no longer so related to research into COVID. The other area of disruptive technologies, of course, is our miniaturized HPLC platform in Hummingbird and we're expecting in '25 about $1 million investment there as we continue to look for pathways towards commercialization. We are now working with a very broad range of pharma companies, particularly in the U.S. with the goal of seeing more prototype systems being stored and generate more proof of their value proposition of this unique platform. So, as stated previously, we still stand by the projection that the micro-sampling portfolio and related activities in '25 will be at a breakeven level. And overall, disruptive next year, we expect it to only be about a $1 million investment or loss going into the consolidated EBITDA. The other comment I would just make here is that when you look at the numbers, you'll see that the gross margin in the micro-sampling tools has had a healthy step up. And that's really about us now getting far better productive at our manufacturing processes in our Penang, Malaysia facility. Everyone will work full that after the acquisition of Neoteryx, we relocated those activities into Penang. And it's been a progression here of improving that production activity and staying to realize the sort of margins that we would expect. And so, just on that area, Alister, anything else again that you'd like to add?

Just a couple of comments to touch on some of the things you've raised there, Stephen. So, the net revenue for the full year in this segment was impacted by a weaker first half. However, in the second half, net revenue returned to similar levels achieved in the second half of FY '22 and FY 2023. The pro forma gross margin in the segment grew over the prior comparative period, particularly in the second half and within the disruptive technologies' portfolio, Stephen's highlighted there, there's higher-margin blood micro-sampling products offset by lower-margin, early-stage products, which are currently sold for investigative or research use only. And the normalized EBITDA in the second half improved to similar levels achieved in the first half and second half of FY 2023 and is anticipated to improve further bolting implementation of the cost reduction initiatives announced in February this year, and Stephen just touched on.

Okay. So, moving along, perhaps a few comments here on the balance sheet. I'll hand over to you again, Alister, to lead this slide.

Thanks, Stephen. So, the cash balance remained comparable to June and December '23 at $11.2 million, and net debt has decreased, as mentioned previously by $4.7 million over the prior comparative period. Trade receivables balance is similar to December '23, and lower than the prior comparative period, explained by the lower year-on-year net revenue. Inventory balance remained below $28 million, similar to December 2023 are lower than the prior comparative period. And managing inventory levels has been an area of focus for management since June 2023. As announced in the market on the 1st of August, the reduction in noncurrent assets is explained by the noncash impairment of intangible assets, including Neoteryx goodwill and intangibles and other micro-sampling-related assets, totaling $26.7 million. Resulting from the impairment, the company had a technical breach of a financial covenant relating to movements in shareholder equity as of the 30th of June 2024. This is now resolved with no implications to debt arrangements. As a result of the breach at the 30th of June '24, all debts classified in the balance sheet as current. So, excluding the classification impact resulting from the breach, current debt would have been $14.7 million, a similar level of balance as I presented at December 2023.

Another key takeaway from me is with the net reduction of the $4.7 million and with the improved EBITDA performance, we are now back in the realm with a net debt-to-EBITDA ratio of our target area of around 2:1. And indeed, as we project now going into fiscal '25, we would expect that to reduce further. And the way I view that is it's a nice consolidation of the balance sheet and preparing us for the next stages of growth. If we also look at the cash conversion, I think there's some reasonably robust conversation to have there as well, Alister. So, I'll hand over to you to speak to our fiscal '24 cash conversion.

Sure. Thanks, Stephen. Just a couple of points here. So, operating cash flow in '24 grew driven by lower year-on-year normalized EBITDA, but that was offset by changes in working capital. The trade receivables, inventory, and other assets decreased over the prior comparative period, in line with lower net revenue and manufacturing activity. The cash conversion ratio is above 1x again, and that's consistent with December '23 and above the prior comparative period.

All right. So, coming into the last couple of slides, one of the things we did want to speak to is our ongoing activity as it relates to ESG. ESG is an incredibly important parameter for a number of our key global customers as they look at their global carbon footprint, they break things down into things that are directly related to their activities, which is classified as Scope 1 and Scope 2. But then, of course, they look at their supply chain and have a view around their Scope 3 carbon load, which is all about their supplier and partnering network. And, of course, we are part of that. And this activity started in fiscal '22, progressed into fiscal '23. And in fiscal '24, we've now got to the point through partnering with a group called Carbonhound, we've been able to start to do some measurement around our global carbon footprint. Part of that, of course, is a goal alongside with our major customers to have targets around achieving carbon neutrality. One of the things that characterizes our approach here is to be very pragmatic about it. We strongly support the direction of creating a more sustainable business and be concerned about our footprint in the world. And, at the same time, we can see that many of the initiatives that come out of this actually drive a better business as well. And so, you'll see us continue to report more around our ESG-related activities. Stepping into the outlook for fiscal '25. We do expect revenues now to go past the $160 million mark in this financial year. You'll see that we've chosen to simplify the projection with regards to profitability. For a period of time, we had separated our core EBITDA from the disruptive technologies, which were loss-making activity. We did that, of course, with the intent and the hope that the investment community would look at the 2 separately and place a value on the 2 of those separately. But now, as we go into fiscal '25, the level of loss-making in disruptive technologies will be circa around $1 million. And so, we've just consolidated all of that into our outlook for '25, giving a production in the range of $17 million to $19 million all-in for the group on EBITDA. As we think about next year, we also are being cautious again around what to happen in the Capital Equipment. And we're pretty much expecting that to be flat in the first half. We do see some green shoots, as they would say, and discussions within the industry tends to support that. But even if we see an uplift in order activity as we go into calendar '25, the cycle typically from order to invoice revenue recognition in the Capital Equipment business is still a 2- to 3-month cycle. And so, we remain relatively cautious about the contribution that we'll see from that segment this financial year. We do expect to see the improvement trend in our gross margin pick up again after we have passed through this extraordinary impact of the stocking and destocking cycle. As you can tell, we have a laser focus on continuing to strengthen the balance sheet because from our perspective, that is key to enabling us to attack the next opportunities for growth within the Trajan business, and there's certainly many opportunities out there for us to continue to pursue. And Project Neptune, we're pleased with what we've achieved this far, and we have spoken from time to time about moving into Phase II, which is a more globalized approach to continued automation and rationalization of our production activities along the way. The final slide here is a nice reminder that despite the significant challenges in fiscal '24 to land where we have landed within 5% of the revenue of the prior year is, again, a real testimony to the underlying resilience and strength of the Trajan business. That all comes about not only through the diversification of the different geographies that we service, but the diversity of the market segments and the key customer groups that we collaborate with around the world. We can see that what we are doing is having an impact in the world and that remains our focus in terms of being a vision and a purpose-driven organization. There is a commentary here about the high-quality experienced management team but it's not just the management team. One of the things that I'm incredibly grateful for and I'm going to use this public forum to acknowledge all the trading staff around the world across every part of the business. It's been a healthy year for a lot of people. It's incredibly stressful when you are inside an organization that is working through a reduction in income, managing the various pressures that causes and then being under the pump to catch up and service your customers around the world. And so, to all the trading team that are out there, a big thank you from me. It's been a very, very challenging and stressful time, no doubt for all of them. And perhaps one note to just wrap up the commentary here that speaks to Trajan's readiness to continue to deliver impact around the world. Another story that you may have seen in the media recently was that in China, there was a human health issue, where some fuel transport vehicles were then being utilized for food transportation without the appropriately cleaning in between. And what happened since then is that, that has indeed triggered a range of orders on to our automation business to supply systems into China for what we've talked about, which is the Moshmar system, which is all about detecting those toxic hydrocarbon compounds that find their way into the food chain. And it is the extraordinary capability of that system being a fully automated workflow unlike anyone else in the world that will be starting to be delivered into those Chinese customers over the next few months to again have an impact on human health and to meet those measurements possible. And that's what Trajan is all about, making that difference in the world, providing measurement capability that is at the end of the day, enabling better outcomes for us as human beings. So, that wraps up our commentary for today and quite happy Marie then to hand over to any Q&A that we might like to go through.

[Operator Instructions] We do have a few that have already come in. And so, with that, I'll get started. So, the first question is, what are your expectations for GP margins into FY '25? And perhaps you could address this for each of the consumables and the capital goods.

Yes. That's a good question because when we look at '24, as I mentioned, the big impact was on the components and consumables business. If you have a look back at fiscal '23 when the group was running around the 43% and now as we return to normality and see some of the benefits of [indiscernible] kick in as well. That's the sort of round as a baseline that we should be considering. On the capital equipment side, we've seen that despite that softness at the high end of the pharma area that we were able to maintain those gross margins. So, again, as a baseline, I would look at what we've just achieved in fiscal '24.

And then the second question is, what can you tell us about the next phase of Project Neptune? And when will you be in a position to provide some more details?

In Project Neptune, Phase 1 was very much about activities here in Melbourne and how some of those activities also were being transferred into our Penang, Malaysia facility, automation on the shop floor here and some of the more labor intensity of assembly work happening in Penang. And that was a 3-year program, where we've achieved many of the outcomes that we sought to, and we'll start to see some of that flow into the numbers as well. When we look at Neptune Part 2, that's when we're staying to look very much at a global level. And part of that will be also looking at our global footprint. I have mentioned previously that we do have many facilities around the world and with a number of the groups we've talked about how that Neptune try to still owns 5 properties around the world as well. And so, as we look at that global footprint and we look at our long-term goals in terms of rationalizing production activities, logistical systems and indeed servicing some of our ESG goals as well, that is the very broad scope of Neptune Part 2. And, conceptually, we know some of the things that we want to address, but some of the detail will start to be put behind that in the second quarter of this year. And I would hope by the time we do the first half report out, we'll be able to provide a lot more color around the scale and some of the detail around Neptune Part 2.

Thanks, Stephen, and very much related to your last answer, and there's a third question on the fact that you've mentioned in the past the potential to sell some excess real estate. And where is this up to? And is this something that you're still considering?

Yes, we have. We had a session in March of this year to have a really good look at the way we've been managing our working capital. And part of that, of course, highlighted that we still own 5 properties around the world. And it's a good question, do we want to be in property ownership or not? And in some ways, it's very tempting to then say, well, if we go through a process and divest those properties, there's an immediate benefit to the balance sheet, and that's true. We have engaged with property advice, both in the U.S. and in Germany, where we own those facilities. But at the same time, we're not going to jump in and do anything that might damage the long-term perform of the business. So, there's 2 aspects to that. One is to make sure we do the long-term financial modeling and just validate her a sensible thing to do. But secondly, coming back to our views around what does our long-term global footprint look like that we also don't do anything silly there in terms of block any opportunities we might have to modify or change some of the facilities that we own to better suit our long-term outcome. So, yes, that potential is there. As you can tell by the significant reduction in net debt in fiscal '24, we're under no particular pressure to start divesting assets to achieve further reduction. However, it is there, and it is something that is still very much on the table in terms of part of the mix going forward.

And the next question is around our order book. So, as we look at the order book, are they in the same level now as they were at the same time last year?

The order book we look at it in a couple of ways. So, let me take the simplest first. If we look at the capital equipment order book as at June 30, it was very much the same as what it was last year. And that's at about $9 million, which is a healthy spot for it to be, which is representative of between 2 and 3 months' worth of sales. When we look at the order book for components and consumables, we look at it 2 ways. We look at a total order book, which really doesn't reflect the overall health of the business because as you can imagine, orders for components and consumables are coming in all the time. And some of them are long-term forward orders, some of them are immediate and in between. One of the things I look at are what's the level of orders that we have on hand right now, these we have product on the shelf, we could ship, and I referred to those as past due or overdue orders in components and consumables. And right now, that's double where it was at the same time last year. We started last year with about $1.5 million in overdue orders in components and consumables and we've started this year with around $3 million because we still didn't catch up on those orders when we got to the end of the financial year.

At the top line, is there an underlying bolus of demand that got delayed into the first half of 25? And what was the quantum?

So, the way I look at it is that effectively, there was about $1.5 million of orders for components and consumables that has rolled over into '25.

And as we look to guidance, do you incorporate a strong rebound in the pharma in the second half? And to what extent do you anticipate food and pay fast to plug the gap?

So, as we look into capital equipment for this financial year, we have not included a robust rebound in pharma. We're expecting and are included in our forecast for it to remain weak in the first half and then particularly a moderate uplift in the second half that will only convert to revenue really in the last quarter. We do, though, expect to a reasonable extent that the strength that we're seeing in our food-related workflows, the emergence of some of our clinical workflows and indeed, the launch of some of our environmental workflows, particularly those related to Payfast and dioxins, will bridge some of that gap. Now, to the extent that will happen is a great question, and we're remaining, I think, relatively conservative about to what extent that will make up the shortfall in '25.

We have 2 related questions here around destocking, so, I'll ask them in 2 parts. The first one is, what was the essential reason behind the destocking or stocking cycle by customers? And the second one, is what gives you the confidence that the destocking activity has resolved?

Right. So, the destocking activity came about because many of our large customers around the world and indeed, many of the in-laboratories around the world, during COVID, increased the amount of inventory that they had on the shelf to ensure that the continuity of supply for their use in the lab or supply to the laboratory-based customers. When we got into the last quarter of fiscal '23 and even more so into the first quarter of fiscal '24, it was evident not only for the in-laboratories, but certainly for our major customers, there was no need to have a concern about continuity of supply when it came to trading. In fact, I do remember quite vividly a discussion with one major customer who said, here is the good news and the bad news. The good news is that Trajan has been one of their most reliable suppliers right through the COVID period and we really appreciate that. The bad news is that, that means we don't actually need to hold as much of your product on our shelves to ensure continuity of supply to our customers. Therefore, there's going to be a weakness in orders placed upon Trajan over the coming months while we allow the natural demand to run down our inventory levels. So, that's what the destocking looked like. How do I have confidence that cycle has come to an end? Well, one of the things that we do write down to the product line detail is that we look at demand over many, many years. So, we have charts to go back 7 or 8 years at monthly resolution. And we can see through all of those in different sectors for different customers, where some of them went through a stocking cycle and then when they're going out of the destocking cycle. And when I look then at what has been the trajectory over the last 6 months or so since we have assumed that, that cycle has completed, I can see in a number of cases that the growth trajectory has returned to the long-term growth trajectory that Trajan has experienced. And that's what gives us some confidence there. As I mentioned during the main presentation, the only area of exception there is that there are some specialized products that go into more of the life sciences, pharma, biopharma area, where they are still flat. And that aligns with what we are hearing across the industry in terms of the demand in that sector are still being relatively flat.

And the next question is around acquisitions. So, are we looking at any acquisitions at the moment? And in the future, do you think you will make more acquisitions?

We have never stopped looking at acquisitions. I can share with everyone, there is at least 30 targets that we have on our list. Are we in a mode to execute any major acquisition right now? No. And let me put silence on any discussion about any type of capital rise, we have no intention of doing that. But nonetheless, there are still targeted companies out there that are aligned strongly with Trajan's business model and our overall strategic direction, and we continue to have those discussions. So, when the business is in the right sort of shape and when we can see a clear pathway to continue to drive our growth, not just through organic growth, new product introduction and other means, but also potentially through further additions to the group, then we'll continue to do that. I mean, this is a business that has huge potential worldwide, and we want to continue to pursue a trajectory that allows the business to achieve its potential.

And then the second half of '24 saw high variable cost production in the consumables business. Is the segment more stable now regarding head count and variable costs?

Yes, very much. So, what we saw happen there was that we needed to add additional resource from February really through to March and April. And it was only in May and June that we saw the output and reflect that additional cost. That's why the margins were compromised in that second half. We can see now as we've progressed from May forward that, that's very much balanced out again, and we'll continue to rebalance that as we continue into fiscal '25. So, I'm comfortable that volatility has been resolved.

And can you provide insight into Trajan's pricing power, for example, the ability to increase prices in excess of industry benchmarks to provide explicit evidence on the value of Trajan's know-how with an expertise in specialist manufacturing and power balance vis-a-vis customers?

Yes. We can discuss that. Pricing is an interesting element of our overall business model. And typically, we achieve those pricing premiums as we introduce new products into the portfolio. If you look at some of the new products that we've touched on briefly in this presentation today, they'll be priced appropriately based on the value that they deliver. We have good, we have long-term partnerships with many of our global customers, and we saw during COVID that there was a need for us to address some of the pricing based on some of the cost inputs that ourselves and many others were experiencing in the industry. And we were successful with 100% of customers not being able to execute some pricing actions there. And some of those pricing actions are still to be completed in terms of they were phased over a period of time. The key to us continuing to achieve price premiums and margin development is how we embed better value into our product. And as we continue to add to our portfolio, new products that are addressing customer needs. I mean, it sounds pretty basic, pretty simple but fundamentally, that is the key to us to continue to drive margins from a pricing perspective, the value that the product is going to deliver to the end customer.

Thank you, Stephen. And there are a number of online questions that came through about commenting on the share price and recovery of share price. Would you like to comment on that?

So, you can imagine it's a question that comes up frequently. And we have in life things we can control and the things we can't control. Within Trajan, we have a business to run. And part of what we need to do, of course, is to ensure that we're continuing to run that business and grow that business in a way that continues to develop shareholder value being a major shareholder or 2, want to see the business continue to develop that value. We're relatively new to the public markets. And to whatever extent there's a correlation between the performance in the business and the share price, that would be great to understand in full one day. I mean, if we look at the half we just completed, that half in terms of revenue and core profitability is the same scale in 6 months in trouble times compared to what we were in full when we went to IPO for a full year, and yet the share price is we, of course, somewhat lower than what it was at IPO. But one thing I can say with great certainty is that Trajan is a business with significant global potential. As you know, if I take off my CEO hat, if I'm allowed to do that for 30 seconds and put on my majority shareholder hat, I can tell you that by one mechanism or another, this business will achieve its appropriate valuation and its potential in this global marketplace. And I say, as you can probably tell, with significant determination.

Thank you, Stephen, and thank you, Alister. There are no further questions. So, this brings us to a conclusion of the Q&A session and to Trajan's full-year results investor webcast for FY '24, the period ending the 30th of June 2024. And I'd like to thank you all for joining us this morning.

Thank you, everybody, and thank you, Marie, and thank you, Alister.