Trelleborg AB (publ) (TRELB) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Thank you, and welcome to all of you, and thanks for showing interest in this call following our announcement this morning that we have signed an agreement to divest our business area the Wheel Systems to Yokohama. Using the presentation, which is on our web page as a guidance throughout the call, and I will start off with some general comments, Peter here. And then follow -- Fredrik will support me with some on the figure slides and then summing up with the Q&A session. Turning then to the presentation. First page, New Horizons for Trelleborg. This was the heading for our Capital Market Day beginning of December. And now we're announcing a further kind of revision of the horizon while we're divesting the business area, Trelleborg Wheel Systems. Turning to Page 2. Well, we feel accelerating our journey. That is definitely we feel it. I mean this is a move towards becoming an even more specialized company. And although we are very happy with the development of Wheel Systems in the last few years and basically also happy with the position we have in the market, we nevertheless see that this is, let's say, a step towards a more coherent Trelleborg, a more, let's say, value-adding Trelleborg. With the overall ambition, as we stated here, growing Trelleborg into the world's foremost engineered polymer solutions company in our selected industries. We are not going to be everywhere, and we're not going to be offering all kinds of solutions. But definitely we want to be considered as the best guys offering engineered polymer solutions. This is kind of the overall heading. Turning then to Page 3, accelerating our journey. I already comment on that. This divestiture is a step towards a more focused Trelleborg. Get back and quickly turning to Page 4 to comment more on this, I mean, the rationale behind the deal. I mean if we now -- when we are, let's say, closing this deal in a few months, then we will have a remaining Trelleborg, which is more profitable with a higher margin, less cyclical. I mean we have been exposed to the cycle, especially in the agricultural side. We're just going a little bit up and down and also in that respect, also more exposed to raw material. And then also creating a more -- better sustainability profile for the remainder of Trelleborg, get back and comment and give you some more flavor on that later as well. Also, we've already commented, I mean, with this, let's say, beyond Trelleborg Wheel Systems, we will have a more coherent portfolio with a lot of our products actually single sourced. And I mean with this overall guidance that we have, a function, C cost in our product, which a good pricing power and a very, let's say, sticky customer base and, let's say, long-term journeys with all customers where we develop solutions, develop products very much together with our customers, I mean this is the business model that we're going to have going forward. And also, drivers will be more -- business drivers for the business will be more coherent as well, where we have, let's say, much more similarities, which makes it a little bit easier to understand Trelleborg and also easier for you guys following our share to better understand kind of the underlying drivers for the company. And so we feel this will make more, once again, more coherent Trelleborg and easier to understand and also easier to follow. And also, of course, I mean, when we get this money, this is going to be further strengthening an already strong balance sheet and then creating a lot of opportunities for us to move further on our journey to add new interesting businesses, not only kind of in existing focus areas, but also, of course, opening up opportunities also to widen our scope a little bit. And also, we have to finish up. We wouldn't have sold this business unless we have also see in the valuation as attractive. I get back and comment on that as well. I mean so it's not kind of a discounted the way the business forceful sale in any way. We simply went into these discussions with a very firm idea on the valuation. And we managed to get it at that level or even slightly above our industrial target. Turning then to Page 5. It is, on this slide, just a few comments on Wheel Systems. I trust all of you know it. But I mean just to put it a little bit more in perspective and why this has been an interesting asset. We are the global leader. Trelleborg Wheel Systems is the global leader in what we call specialty tires. We are a top 3 position globally in agricultural tires, probably a top 2 position in material handling. And these 2 businesses is probably more than 80% of the business on Wheel Systems. And then we have small niche activities related to the construction tires and some 2-wheeler business. So it's definitely a very nice strategic position, a very nice position in the market. And if you look at the overall tire industry, most of the bigger tire players are far heavier into on-the-road tires, [ returning ] passenger car tires and truck tires. And these are kind of a building block for a lot of the tire companies to kind of supplement their offer and get more a full tire offer. Although, I mean, of course, with completely different customers and completely different drivers for these segments compared to the trucks and the cost, but nevertheless, it is tires. So there are some joint synergies to be created in purchasing and probably also in the manufacturing space, while all of them has to recognize different business compared to the other tire businesses. And that means also by us being global and global leading in this segment, and of course, it's been a nice building block for a lot of tire companies who wants to create a more wider offer. And then at the end, we finished off this discussion with Yokohama. Yokohama went along with this. But of course, this would have been a good fit also for other tire companies once again if they had an interest to really have a complete offer for tires. So this is really where we're coming from. It's also a global business. While most of the businesses within the specialty tires at the moment is more kind of regional players, that is also where Wheel Systems sticks out compared to other. And all in all, that means that we got a good value out of it and putting good interest when we decided to start to entertain these kind of discussions. Turning to Page 6. I mean as you know, I mean, Wheel System today is some 30% of our sales and some 22% of the profits over the EBIT. So that is the figures which you can read. And then turning quickly then to Page 7 to discuss a little bit also about offer as such. We believe it's an attractive valuation. We believe as at the very top end of all kind of tire valuations that have been around. And we think the offer recognizes that Wheel Systems is, once again the, let's say, global leader in the segment and also recognizing that we are in a way to the journey to this 15%-plus margin. And that means that looking at the valuations, well, we are talking here '21 figures, but I mean, 13x operational EBITDA. And we're going north of 17x 2021 EBIT. And then, of course, you can discuss also what you see the multiples on '22. And '22 is, as you know, a little bit tricky now with this Ukraine-Russian situation, and that is why we decided to go for this. Yokohama has created their opinions on '22. And I mean we don't really discuss in that way. So we -- that is why we're referring to the figures for '21. And that means that the purchase price comes up to EUR 2.1 billion, which we round off to 22. We know it's 21.7 as of today. But you also know that it's kind of a volatility also in the exchange rates here. So that is why we decided to communicate in that way. Of course, cash and debt-free. And there is also a very minor part of this 2.1%, 3%, slightly below 3%, which is linked to the '22 performance of Wheel Systems. And of course, also, as I already commented on before closing, there is some approvals from authorities needed to close it. We do not expect any problems. And in this deal, it also, let's say, there is no way of Yokohama backing out of this because of comments from authorities. But once again, we see that there's very limited risk that has actually end up being in any discussions in that area. And it means also with the current calculations. As you know, we need to get back to you when we have the closing account in place. But we do expect this to create a capital gain in the range of SEK 6 billion. So this is kind of the deal that is done, signed this morning. And once again, I mean, we expect this to take some 3 to 6 months before we get to the closing of this. So leaving that and moving on a little bit more on Page 8 to Trelleborg post the transaction. Of course, now this is pro forma figures, and I have to be updated, but we will do our best to guide you through this. Turning to Page 9. I mean as the group is today then without, of course, Trelleborg Sealing Solutions, Trelleborg Industrial Solutions, where also on the Capital Market Day, nothing changed from the Capital Market Day here beginning of December. We say the different strategies for each business within Trelleborg, and that is also value for this, although we still maintain for Sealing Solutions. Very happy with the position and basically focus being scale up and accelerate, both through organic efforts but also to continue to add on acquisitions, potentially also widening the scope of our offer a little bit. Trelleborg Industrial Solution is still on a kind of a value journey. There is businesses here where we would like to continue to improve the profitability. Well, there also our bits and pieces in Industrial Solutions. We're very happy with the current position. And we will potentially also scout for acquisitions to strengthen already good positions. But nevertheless, the overall target at the moment for Trelleborg Industrial Solutions is what we call the climbing a value ladder, and thereby, kind of increasing the margin somewhat before getting back to a full focus on growth. So this is kind of the overall comment, and then I hand over to Fredrik to guide us a little bit to the figures on Page 10. Please, Fredrik.

Thank you, Peter. Let's look at some details post the transaction. And if we start with sales, you can see that it will almost be a 50-50 split going forward between Sealing Solutions and TRS. Sealing will be larger if you use a pro forma for 2021. If we then look at from an EBIT point of view, 2/3 of the EBIT going forward will come from Sealing Solutions and around 1/3 will come from Industrial Solutions. And if we look at the sales CAGR over the -- since 2017 up to 2021, you will see that the new group will have a 5% CAGR on the top line, and EBIT should have increased by 7% for the corresponding period. If we then turn page to Page 11, looking from a margin point of view. You can also see the average margin here for the same period should have been 0.9 percentage points higher. And if we're looking into 2021, the actual should have been 16.4% for the new group. And also looking at return on capital employed, you can see that pro forma for the new group should have been 15.1% in 2021, a 2.2 percentage point higher in average during 2017 to 2021. If you then turn to Page 12 and look at the split from a geographical point of view, you will see that Europe will now be around 50% of the sales; North America, 25%; and Asia, 25%. And therefore, if we look from an industry point of view, you can find out that health and medical is approximately 10% of the new Trelleborg, aerospace will be another 10%, light vehicles will be around 15%. And then the remaining part, which is 65%, will be diversified industries. If we then move on to Page 13. Of course, we will come to a net cash position when this transaction is closed. And our main focus here is, of course, to accelerating the growth, as Peter mentioned, through organic investments and acquisitions. And then, of course, we have the share buyback and where we have announced today that we will start the buyback program next week. And then, of course, depending on how the acquisitions and how the organic investments is developing, we, of course, also in the toolbox have a possible share redemption after closing of the transaction, but that's just early discussions. And by that, I hand back the microphone to Peter.

Great. Thanks, Fredrik. Turning to Page 14, where we're heading a sustainability leader in our industry. We do recognize that we are active with rubber and polymers, which is kind of in an oil derivate in certain dimensions. But we still feel that we are very good off in sustainability, a good starting point. And we are well recognized for the way we work in these areas. And we still keep this kind of overall net zero vision for 2035. But this deal also immediately improves, especially the CO2 footprint substantially. I already commented on that Wheel System stands for some 30% of the sales, but actually close to 2/3 of the CO2 emissions. So that is kind of immediately the profile will change dramatically. We will get back to you with more comments on this and more update. But I mean an earlier heads up that the sustainability profile of Trelleborg will change dramatically following this transaction. And of course, we also then immediately will kind of meet our objectives for 2025 where we commented on also, let's say, last year. But this is also something we need to get back to you here when they'll be disclosed and kind of refreshed and basically update our objectives in relation to sustainability. But once again, dramatically improving our sustainability profile by making this deal. And then finally, before opening up for questions, some closing remarks. I mean we feel the heading here, growing Trelleborg into the world's foremost engineered polymer solutions company in our selected industries. We win some drivers. We talk a lot internally about this a function, C cost. And we also want to be basically be single sourced and work very closely together with our customers. And we feel that following the divestiture of Wheel Systems, we will get this, let's say, position more coherent and create a better overall -- kind of overall position for Trelleborg. And also immediately, I mean, we get higher, as Fredrik already stated, more profitable and also less cyclical. And also, as I already commented myself, improved business profile and more profitable relates to the margin. But also, in a way, the returns will get better also with the remainder of Trelleborg. We are, as I already commented as well several times, we are getting a more coherent portfolio with similar business models and also more similarity in drivers. We will not be exposed to this sometimes. I mean although a very interesting segment of agriculture, but a little more cyclical and more, let's say, influenced also by, in certain cases, with political decisions, which is sometimes difficult to foresee. Following this divestiture, of course, that's also Fredrik commented on, our balance sheet will get a lot stronger. We'll get into a positive cash situation, which means that, I mean, we're going to have a lot of power just to increase also organic efforts, CapEx in order to organically improve our positions and organically grow into more interesting segments, but of course also adding capacity to make acquisitions. So that is also an area which is exciting for us and an area which we feel that we are well positioned to do some good things. We do also feel, of course, that is, let's say, our opinion. But we think also the transaction visualizes some of the embedded value in Trelleborg. I don't think that it's been fully recognized the value of Wheel Systems. And then also we shouldn't hide that in certain discussions with investors and analysts, we do feel that this tire connection we have in Trelleborg has also been that we've pulled into, to being, let's say, peer comparisons, which we don't think is fully fair to Trelleborg being compared to kind of car tire manufacturers and truck tire manufacturers. And we do feel that this transaction shows both, let's say, the higher value on Wheel Systems compared to maybe the expectations or the views in the market. But we will also show that remainder of Trelleborg is actually a very nice company. And that you'd also, we believe, should be better recognized also in the valuation and thereby creating value for our shareholders. Finally, of course, user proceeds and also this will also trigger a revision of our financial targets, but that is something that we have to get back to you later and comment more on. We still have to recognize the deal. The close deal is still some 3 to 6 months ahead of us. And we will get back in due time and comment and be more clear on these areas. So there, I think we want to end there. Turning to Page 16 and then opening up for Q&A. So please go ahead, guys.

[Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from Klas Bergelind with Citi.

Yes. Peter and Fredrik, it's Klas at Citi. So good to see that you managed a good result. So I have a couple of questions. First, can we talk about potential dissynergies and if there are any tax implications at all? I don't think there is any margin impact from stranded costs, et cetera. But I just want to make sure your pro forma margin doesn't suggest any cost impact, but still wanted to ask. I'll start here.

Yes. I mean the synergies, of course, there is some synergies in the raw materials. But we feel even without, let's say, Wheel System, we're still going to be very big in our industry. We don't, let's say, we don't expect to get less interest from the suppliers. We are still very big in our industry, even though it was bigger before. There is some, let's say, minor raw materials where we kind of will potentially be exposed to some dissynergies. But also there, we have an agreement that we're going to continue to work together, we're going to continue to phase out. So we do not expect that to be any, let's say, any impact in a way. There could be some very, very minor, but we think we have ways around that, and we're going to solve that. So we don't expect that to happen. With regards to tax rate, Fredrik, I mean, there is nothing really changing in that?

No major change. And if you're linked to the transaction as such, I think the question was your question, Klas, that would be just a small tax cost. And that is included in the net gain of SEK 6 billion.

Yes. So basically -- sorry, it's a tax-free divestiture in a way. But then, of course, there's some legal restructuring. There is some kind of onetime tax cost. But that is neglectable in the total scheme of things.

Okay. Very good. My second one is on the proceeds. And as you rightly say, there are several options here, buyback, M&A, organic redemption. Just on the potential redemption, would that be a preferred option over an expansion of the current buyback program that you start today? And could you talk a little bit about M&A a little bit more? Would you prefer another ADS-type sized deal in higher growth segments? Are you keen to do more bolt-ons?

If we start with the potential increase in the buyback from that, that will be a challenge due to the safe harbor regulation where you have limitation how much of the daily volume you can buy back. So I will say, if we are at the SEK 3 billion level, we are starting to get close to the limit. So if we need to do something more, it will be something else than the share buyback.

And that is why we commented on redemption. And so the redemption is the next step there. But we have to be clear on that. Nothing is decided, and then nothing is kind of being prepared. This is something we simply have to look at. And then, of course, but nevertheless, the focus is on acquisitions, of course. And I mean if you ask, we don't foresee -- there is a few targets, which is bigger out there. But they are not for sale at the moment. And we foresee that it's going to be more bolt-on type of acquisitions. But that said, it would be still the EUR 1 billion -- not EUR 1 billion, but SEK 1 billion deals. But it's not going to be one big bang. That is not the way we foresee it at the moment.

Our next question comes from Hampus Engellau with Handelsbanken.

First, I must say, Fredrik, that you had some fantastic poker face from our talk yesterday. So I won't be playing poker with you anyway. But could you talk a little bit about the profitability gap between Industrial and Sealing and how you're expecting to close that gap? And I guess the follow-up question to that is, of course, if we should expect any further divestment of parts of Industrial Solutions to get closer to Sealing Solutions as there is a [indiscernible]?

Yes. I mean I don't think it's a given that we should close the gap. I mean we have to look at the individual businesses. I mean we say we want to increase the margin of Industrial Solutions. We don't believe that's going to happen through divestitures. It's simply going to be happening with improving of the business. But the objective is to be very open, but that is not to close the gap. But if we can get, let's say, the Industrial Solutions a few percentage points up, then it's going to be good. And we think we can do that by pushing in the areas of higher profitability in Industrial Solutions and potentially also make a few acquisitions here to move it up a little bit. But the current objective is not to get Industrial Solutions to 20%-plus. While we have to also recognize for Sealing Solutions, we are probably on the very high end stability in that segment. So there is more that maybe grow with, and I shouldn't say sacrifice the margin, but it will be -- if we want to do any bigger acquisitions, that the area is going to be a challenge to buy at this close to kind of 25% EBIT margin. So that is something we are balancing. And we are not really looking at that as a kind of an individual business areas. We're looking at the group. And I mean now, of course, with this, we're pushing up the margin on the group level. And if we can do slightly more acquisitions in Sealing, then we think the group margin could continue to go up. But we need to get back on comments on that. We will get back and comment on that what objective is when we are getting closer to closing of this deal. But of course, we need to revise the financial targets. And we need to give you some other guidance on the future for the full group. But once again, we want to close this deal first. And we would like to get it done. We like to get the money in our pockets. And then we're very ready to discuss what the next steps will be. But once again, it's not really an ambition to get the Industrial Solutions up to 20 -- at least, not at the moment, an ambition to get Industrial Solutions up to 20% plus EBIT margin.

And I guess you will come back to what will be a fair level for Industrial. In terms of bolt-on acquisitions, and as you highlighted, SEK 1 billion acquisition, would it be possible to maybe discuss any end markets that would be of interest? I'm not talking about -- I know that you made some efforts in health care and food and beverage and that includes particularly growing markets...

There's no hiding at the moment. We want to grow health care and medical. We want to grow aerospace. And then we have a few other specialty segments. We talk a lot about automation, now robotics and all this kind of areas surrounding that, with a lot of, let's say, electrification. So we have quite a few target segments. But I mean, so we are working in a few areas, but also some niche where we are -- there's a high-end chemical change. There is a few niches. As you know, in Sealing Solutions, we are active in some 40 subsegmentsand several of those segments is interesting. But some of them is not that big. So if we want to grow, it's really size-wise, it's probably automation. We will talk about the health care, medical. We talk about aerospace. These are kind of probably the bigger areas where we're targeting at the moment. I don't know, Fredrik, if I'm forgetting anything. I think this is the overall heading. And then we have also some more engineered materials as well. But we're working as well into kind of move into some more, I should say, specialty materials, which is then supplementing more from widening of scope into those areas and actually maybe not, let's say, opening up completely new businesses, but more adding more value to already existing contracts. I don't know whether that's sufficient answer, but it's difficult to -- we can have many conversations about this afterwards.

Yes, I realize. I mean we don't go into details, but fair enough.

Our next question comes from Erik Golrang with SEB.

I have a few questions. And the first one is a follow-up on the use of proceeds. Do I read you right that if you're perhaps willing to sit on quite a strong balance sheet for a longer period if you see there are good deals to be done, but you just don't know the timing of them, rather than you sort of deciding in midsummer here that, okay, we didn't find anything big immediately so we'll do a redemption? And then the second program is on the buyback authorization from today. It covers the period up through the first quarter report, and the amount is limited to SEK 400 million. Could you just sort of elaborate how you plan to authorize and plan for buybacks from here? And then the third question is, will you discontinue Wheel Systems already in the first quarter numbers?

Yes. Thanks, Erik. I mean I understand the curiosity on the proceeds and how to use it. But I mean it is -- we want to get back and comment on that. I don't really want to, let's say, give any time frame at the moment for that. But of course, we don't expect to wait only for 3 months and then decide. I mean it's definitely going to be longer. But then if you talk, let's say, 1 or 2 years, I mean, we have to get back and then talk about that. But it's probably the time frame that we're looking at the moment. And of course, as you say, if we see there is good acquisition prospects, I mean, that will also be kind of influencing the way we look at it. But for sure, we will not decide in 3 months. Let's put it like that. Share buybacks, that's more a formality because I mean we can only have the mandate up to the AGM because we need to make a new decision at the next AGM. So that is why that is commented on that. So the intention is simply to prolong and we can only do this -- due to this, as Fredrik comment onboard on the safe harbor, that is the value. But for sure, that is more a formality that it needs a new decision at AGM.

There's nothing that has changed. We have already communicated with SEK 2 billion to SEK 3 billion still stands.

And the third question, what was said about [indiscernible]?

If it will be written as assets held for sale, and that is correct, Erik. We will report Wheel System as assets held for sale in the first quarter report. And we will also send out a new pro forma or restated numbers by end of next week. And that's also part of the press release.

Our next question comes from Agnieska Vilela with Nordea.

You mentioned that you do not expect much of the synergies after the divestment of wheel. But could you comment on whether you expect any separation and carve-out costs related to this divestment?

There will be some legal, let's say, tax issues when we do some of that. But I mean once again, in the total scheme of things, it's neglectable. I mean that is included also in the calculation on the capital gain here. So it's not really anything meaningful, to be honest, in that respect. But of course, there will be some few hundred million euro, SEK, something like that for the tax. But I mean it's very neglectable in the total.

Assume SEK 100 million, not euros.

SEK 100 million. I said euro, but I mean few hundred million SEK on this one. And that is still to be -- but that's one that, yes, is included in the comments here. So with nothing, let's say, in excess with [indiscernible]

All right. So it's quite negligible. Yes. Great. And then looking at Yokohama's assumptions, obviously, their own assumptions. But they expect Wheel Systems' 2022 EBITDA to be of EUR 230 million. Is this the hurdle that you have for the earn-out payment?

We don't want to comment on that. The earn-out is arranged in a particular way, but we do expect that we have a good position to get the earn-out. And that is kind of -- but of course, there is with some uncertainty related to Ukraine and Russia. And we don't know that we have not been really involved in their estimates here. So this is something that they decided to comment. And exactly what is behind that, we don't know. But it's not directly linked to the earn-out in that respect.

Yes. And then the last question for me. Peter, you mentioned that you don't expect any troubles to get the authorization from authorities for the deal. So if you can just confirm that. And then also, I think you mentioned that Yokohama cannot really walk away from the deal. So if you can elaborate on that.

Yes. No. Because I mean the depositions here, we are strong in kind of -- in our business where we are strong. If you take it because you got the [indiscernible] segment, you can take the smaller one, material handling, Yokohama is basically only present in Japan, and they're not present outside. So that is kind of no deal as such. And for agriculture, they have a position today through their Indian company called Alliance ATG. But that is kind of seen as, how should I say, a budget brand, which is kind of selling to different channels and selling in different markets. And also there, we are far more global. They are more focused on a little bit in Asia, a little bit in India, where we are not that strong. And they're also selling to different channels, both in Europe and North America. So we think it's overlapping businesses. And it's not really -- the competition is not with them. It could be individual small countries where I look at it in different ways. But overall, we cannot see. And of course, this has been also checked before. There have been legal opinions on this. And the conclusion -- some conclusion from this is that there will not be an issue. It's more a matter of timing because some authorities is fairly slow in getting a response, and that is why we have. So we do not expect it to be any problems in terms of all kind of decisions. It's more, let's say, a challenge to get the approvals in place and the timing for those.

[Operator Instructions] Our next question comes from Douglas Lindahl with DNB Markets.

I have 2 questions. First, I guess you touched on the core Industrial Solutions. But do you see any reason or logic to maybe get that business up further? Yes, start with that.

Not really. I mean there is different positions, but they're now targeting the same kind of end markets. It's the same way of selling, less than different positions. We need to strengthen a few positions and potentially also continue to improve the structure on the fuel. But overall, I mean, we still have good positions. And we are kind of more profitable than our direct competitors. And it's more that we need to continue push that margin up. And if we can push that up a few percentage points, then I think we are in a kind of a world-class profitability also in that area. So that is not really on the agenda at the moment. And then, of course, I mean, things can always happen. But once again, I mean, we don't really see any reason to go down that route.

Okay. So this reporting will basically be the one that we can stick to for some time now. and coming back to Sealing, we touched a bit on M&A, but can you elaborate a little bit on the CapEx potential you see for Sealing Solutions?

Yes. I mean we're running. We have been fairly high in the last few years. We're moving basically from 3% up to 5%. But we say in this 5%, there is a few sizable acquisitions now. We're buying -- we are investing in a new logistic center for basically for the world, especially for Europe, so that is kind of trigging. We are also expanding a few -- basically expanding capacity in a few areas. So what we see at the moment is that we are on a high level. So we do not -- I mean, I think it's well-invested Sealing Solutions, I think, without giving any firm guidance, maybe I will get back to that, but we talked some 3% -- between 3% and potentially 4% in a high year. With that, we think that we have a good CapEx level and we are having less expansion possibility to do. We do see that we need to expand capacity a little bit in Asia. We do see also that we have some capacity issues in a few areas. But in the total scheme of things, that's not going to be a major -- any major CapEx. So we don't see that changing in a way. We think we're running at a very good level if we keep this between kind of 3% and 5%. And then with 5% being very higher what we had last year. And we probably, this year, are also going to be in the area. But that is kind of an extraordinary high CapEx.

At this time, we have no further questions. I will now hand back the word to our speakers.

Great. Thank you. Thanks for the interest. And I mean if there is any follow-up questions, of course, I'm available, Fredrik is available and especially Christofer is available if you want to have some further elaborations on this. Otherwise, yes, speak to you in a few weeks when we are announcing our results for the running quarter. Happy to be back and then have a conversation with you. I trust then we will get back also to discuss this subject. But now for us, it's back to run the business and to make sure that we manage these, let's say, both opportunities and challenges that we see in the market at the moment, which we feel confident that we're going to do in a good way. So thanks a lot and speak to you soon.