Trinity Exploration & Production Limited (TRIN) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, and welcome to the Trinity Exploration & Production plc Investor presentation. Throughout this recorded presentation, investors will be in listen-only mode. [Operator Instructions] The company may not be in a position to answer every question received during the meeting itself. However, the company will review all questions submitted today and publish responses where it's appropriate to do so. Before we begin, I'd like to submit the following poll. And I'd now like to hand over to Jeremy Bridglalsingh, CEO. Good afternoon, sir.

Good afternoon, good morning to those who are joining us today. Thanks for taking some time to listen in to our latest [ updates ] on Jacobin and I also describe where we are in terms of the 2023 guidance and the news flow for the remainder of this year into January of 2024. For those of you who are joining us for the first time let me just quickly recap who we are. So Trinity is focused entirely on Trinidad and Tobago. We produce roughly 2,800 barrels of oil per day, which represents between 5% to 6% of the nation's liquid oil production. We generate a significant amount of cash flow from that production. Our balance sheet as of the end of September included $8.4 million of cash and access an undrawn overdraft of USD 6 million. The Board and management team are internationally experienced and awards across a number of jurisdictions as well as comprise a range of disciplines that allow their decision-making, timely execution of strategic plans to be risk-managed. In terms of near-term growth catalyst, we have focused on Palo Seco, and we have Galeota as we've described in the past as the more medium-term growth catalysts, which has been [ wilt ] in the background. Trinity, because we are -- according to existing production and we have existing cash flow during the course of the year, this year, we described that we would be returning cash to shareholders. That will be in the form of a dividend and we have committed to paying a dividend of 1.5p per annum and we began that -- sorry, we began that during the interim dividend, which was paid out in October of this year and the remainder of that initial meeting dividend will be paid when the full year results are released in half 1 of 2024. So getting in to the meat of the matter here that we were -- we -- here to describe today is where we are with Jacobin. So to recap very quickly, we drilled the Jacobin well. We commenced drilling in March of this year. We completed drilling in or on August, so it took us some time to drill the well. We did have some drilling challenges, which resulted in 3 different side tracks happening with the well. The well was designed to go through a development lake within the forest and Upper Cruse zones, which were typically pretty strong, but we deepened with an exploration lake in the Lower Cruse zones and Lower Cruse zones, we found 3 different sets of reservoirs. The Lower Cruse 1, where there were 2 zones, the Lower Cruse 2, which was a significantly thick reservoir, but it was largely wet and then Lower Cruse 3 we began while testing at the Lower Cruse 3. We brought that on to production, but very quickly, we encountered issues with sanding within that zone. We cleared the sanding plug, but the pressures in that zone [ breakdown ] and we made the decision to move uphole to the 2 of the Lower Cruse 1 zones. We've since the brought Lower Cruse 1 zones on to production. We guided the market that we would have those on by mid-December and that timetable was predicated on the basis that when we did investigated work it -- we may have fallen the remedial actions that were required in the well won't happen. But when we did the investigated work it actually -- it actually led us to understand that the wellbore was in good state and therefore, we will be able to set a plug and move uphole and put it to much quicker than anticipated. So we brought this over on top of the both zones within the Lower Cruse 1 area into production. We got significant pressure at the wellhead where we bore it on, and the well at variable rates and variable rates between sort of 80 to 160 barrels of fluid per day and that comprise both water and oil. But along with that, came a significant amount of gas. And that's why we see the rates will derail because the gas whether it flows, it is essentially inhibits the liquids production. So the gas flows for a period of time and now maybe 1 to 2 minutes, and then you have the -- as the gas subsides, then the liquid will flow. So what we were trying to do at the wellhead was to utilize a means of trying to choke the well and varying sizes of choke to try and get the point that we would get enough gas to lift the oil. We shook the water that was coming in as well and then produce the oil. We are in the process of trying to fine-tune that. We have implemented other pieces of equipment, which are past the wellhead, which are separators and the separators are essentially the lowest produce both the gas and oil and the separate those on a low -- a quicker stream of oil to come through. So we're in process of trying to put those pieces of equipment together. We've also understood that at the wellhead because of the pressure that is there alongside with the presence of gas, oil and water at an [ emulsionous ] volume. So we utilize a chemical or we are utilizing a chemical to breakdown that emulsion at the wellhead so that when it produces into the separators and then into the outside tank, the oil and water separate very quickly. So those are some of the ideas and some of the challenges that we are having from an operational standpoint to get the production in a more stable manner in order to determine what is happening or -- we are currently running a pressure test. So we put a gauge into the [ yarn ] hole. And we are currently running out across these different zones of production to understand what those pressures are? Trying to understand what the pressure will be and therefore determine where does the production largely coming from and then use that to correlate against the logs that we have for the well, which define where the hydrocarbons are versus water and then make a decision from as to whether which zone is more preferred for us and take a decision as to whether we can produce 1 over on its own or whether we need to look at isolating either the higher zone or the lower zone. But we are currently in an investigated mode. There's the takeaway from that. I think when we looked at perforating this well, it was clear from the logs that we saw that there was an oil lag, which would have continued gas and there was also a water lag so when we perforated the well, we intended to stay away from new water lag. And therefore, the water in the production that we see right now is something that we are not entirely play on. So it may be that the water is coming through the cement job that we've done and they may be fractures within that cement sink, that means that there is some flow of water again, by understanding doing for the investigator work we'll understand which zone the water is coming from and then make a decision as to whether we can or want to isolate that or whether we want to produce that water within low zones. The oil that we produce thus far has been of a very good quality. The API density is measured at 31.7 for reference, the average API rate that we have or the average range that we have across our onshore production is somewhere between 23 to 28. So this is at a higher rate, and it also represents -- or rather it demonstrates that with the gas oil ratio that we see and the gas that we see coming through helps to move the oil to surface. The gas presence here within this well is also indicative of the lighter quality oil that we are seeing. So where we now in terms of the data gathering exercise, I mentioned that we are carrying out a pressure test. We have implemented various equipment such as separators, closely on the wellhead and we're utilizing all of that to try and get a good understanding of which are the zones to produce from, how best to produce it in terms of shock sizes. What type of separator we need to put on whether it is a vertical, horizontal, 2 phase or 3 phase separator. So at this point in time, we are doing very low-cost activities to understand how we can get the well optimized. And depending on what we optimize, we will then take a decision as to whether this zone is economic to continue to produce from. We spent thus far on this well $8.3 million, of which $6.2 million has already been paid. So that leaves a remainder there to be paid of $1.9 -- sorry, $2.1 million to be paid and there's an amount that is we are in discussion with the drilling contractor about,, because some of the costs that we incurred while drilling this well, the costs that were incurred in drilling well were outside of the geological challenges that we found. So we are in discussion with the drilling contractor to determine how best we will treat with those. The intent is that we will settle the full cost of this well without any recourse to external finance, we will be able to pay this well from the existing organic cash flows that we have. I'd like to take an opportunity to remind everyone about what our guidance for 2023 has been. So we guided in late -- sorry, early on this year in May, we provide guidance on what our sales, our CapEx and operating cash flow would be. Our sales, we guided downward, some in -- sorry, we guided towards the bottom end of the range to 2,800 to 2,900 barrels, which was previously 2,800 to 3,100 barrels based on where we are in production, I expect us to come in, in around close to 2,800 bopd. In terms of our CapEx, $16 million to $18 million was the guidance on midyear, and we will be slightly above that because of the overspend on the Jacobin well but most importantly, from my perspective, the operating cash flow, we guided between $10 million to $12 million. I think this can be towards the upper end of the range if not beating that range. And again, you're looking at sales, looking at CapEx. I think the operating cash flow is a good indicator of what cash they -- the underlying business -- the core business is generating. And notwithstanding, we have invested in an exploration well, which has a significant amount of risk attached to it the underlying business, which is supported by very low declining production and a low-cost structure is generating operating cash flow, which we're using to reinvest into the business and try and grow as well as returning cash to shareholders. Where we are now in terms of guidance into 2024, we usually provide guidance in quarter 2 of the year in which we will lead to. But next year, I would like to get guidance out to the market in late January of 2024. And that would be predicated on providing a quarter 4 operational updates, which we usually provide in or on third week of January. And that will allow -- allow you to see what the full year production is, what the ending cash balances, where the operating cash flow is for the year. So that will give you where we stand in terms of sales and operating cash flow guidance that will be provided in the third week of January. And so thereafter we will provide what the guidance is for 2024, which will be comprised to these metrics that you see in front of you. And if we look at that, the SPT reform that we've seen. And for those of you who are familiar with SPT, you'll understand how material that is for us. For those of you who are not familiar with SPT, it's almost like a royalty tax on our net revenues. And the government has announced in the budget that was read on the second of October that the SPT on shallow marine fields, the threshold at which the SPT would commence would move from $50.01 and $75.01. So we have been paying attention to that. We've seen that the finance bill has now been written and it has been read in the lower house last week, Wednesday, and they will be read today in front of the Senate and if that is passed, it will then move on to get Presidential assent. And therefore, we look like we are in a very likely position that SPT reform will be enacted as of January 1, 2024. For reference in terms of what is that means for us. This year, the offshore SPT liability is in the range of $3 million to $4 million so that would have been coming out of all operating cash flow. So from next year, once that is enacted, you'll be looking to add somewhere in the range of $3 million to $4 million annually in terms of operating cash flow. A little bit gone to SPT previously. So I would expect next year, if these oil prices remain where they are, that the operating cash from this business should be increasing even though we may have slightly declining production paid on the back of no further drilling within the next 6 to 9 months. So at this point, I'd just like to stop and give the -- just to wrap up at this point and say that we -- where we are with Jacobin has certainly been from a production standpoint, it's not been the result that we've been looking for by way of flowing barrels. But in terms of the geological understanding that we have gotten. The fact that we have encountered 3 Low Cruse zones, 2 of which are oil bearing has certainly helped to prove up the geological model for the wider Hummingbird Play and more so into the exploration route for the Buenos Ayres exploration route that we hope to get awarded within the next month or 2. So Trinity, the Palo Seco area remains a key strategic option for us, and we'll continue to build the Galeota option in the [indiscernible]. Thank you for your time and attention this morning. Let me turn you back to Alessandro before I go to the question-and-answer section. Thank you.

Perfect. Jeremy, thanks very much for your presentation. [Operator Instructions]. But you saw Jeremy take a few moments to review the questions that have been submitted today, I'd like to remind you that a recording of this presentation along with a copy of the slides and the published Q&A can be accessed via our investor dashboard. Jeremy, as you can see, we received a number of questions, both pre-submitted and throughout today's live event. If I could just hand back to you just to read out the questions where appropriate to do so, provide a response, and then I'll pick up from you at the end. Over to you.

Thanks very much, Alessandro. I've got some of the pre-submitted questions there, and I'll try to run through as many questions as I can. And I'll start -- I'll start with the first one. And this was a question is, can you please provide a plan with return on investments? Clearly, Hummingbird is a no-go as a shareholder as it is too risky for any company. Additionally, I suggest that you should take only -- that you should not take on any more debt and just run the acreage for cash, which can you please return to shareholders? Is it feasible? If not, are you substantially bankrupt? I'll do that in a reverse order, we're definitely not bankrupt. As you can see and what I've just demonstrated, the company is generating significant operating cash flow and further to that, at these oil prices, the company will continue to generate those cash flows, and that will be augmented by the SPT's reform, which we hope will be enacted on the first of January. The business itself is designed to breakeven from an operating perspective at very low oil prices. Currently, that is in the mid-30s. So therefore, if the oil price was dip into low 40s into even lower -- or even mid- to low 30s, the company would still be able to breakeven and pay its liabilities. So we're certainly not in a bankrupt position. We have cash on the balance sheet, and we are able to meet our debts as they fall due. In terms of providing a plan with return on investments, we clearly described to shareholders what our plan is. And our plan is to try and take on projects that have greater cash-on-cash returns, projects that have an opportunity to the working capital cycle will be much quicker than projects we've been investing in further and by example, what I mean there is the development wells that we tend to drill and have drilled in the past from -- when I've been with this company from 2012 to the present. Those wells are fairly certain, but the production is fairly low. And as a result, when you look at the production versus the investment required, the payback periods tend to be between 3 to 5 years. The project that we attempted to do with Jacobin, which is the [indiscernible] testing to the [ yard ] into the exploration zones in the Lower Cruse areas was to try and find [ Burgan ] reservoir that would have pressure that would support higher rates of production and those higher rates of production would then mean that the amount of CapEx that you spend versus the higher rates of production and sustainable production meant that you had an opportunity to reduce the working capital cycle and increase your cash on cash returns. Unfortunately, with Jacobin, that has not yet happened. But certainly, what we've understood from a geological standpoint is that the geological model is intact. We believe that drilling a 10,000 foot well is quite difficult to do, but the range of uncertainty for drilling has now reduced given that we've gone through that process. So we understand some of the challenges that we have with the drilling fluids within our [indiscernible] tools and then the [ methodologies ] and the [ deposections ] in terms of mud rigs and how we drill through. Those -- that experience that we've been through has taught us a lot. It has cost us as cost shareholders, a lot of money to understand that. But as an oil company, taking on different types of projects, meaning that we are taking on risk, exploration has a certain level of risk attached to it. It is certainly way more risky than the existing production. But what we were trying to do is to change the manner in which we deploy capital and get returns. So the plan is we will continue to look at further investment into drilling in due course. We are not in a position right now where we're going to make an assumption -- make any decision to sanction any further drilling in Jacobin or the Hummingbird or even Buenos Ayres at this point in time. All we are doing right now is putting together the opportunity hopper, to look at those opportunities to risk them appropriately based on what we're [indiscernible] so far and then make a decision, and alongside that, we will be producing as to -- reducing the amount of decline to the existing production, managing the cost structure downwards so that we can maximize the amount of operating cash that we generate, replenish the cash in balance sheet, continue to pay the dividend that we mentioned to shareholders and then there will be enough cash that we can continue to grow the business from organic cash flows. Question 2, somewhat related to question 1, can you focus on short-term low-risk, high-return plant now the adventurous 1 seen beyond your means. Short-term, low-risk, high-return. Within our portfolio, there are not many low-risk high returns. The low risk, high-return projects are recompletions. So recompletions, for example, are when you have an existing wellbore, you're producing from a lower section and that section becomes uneconomic to produce, and there are uphole sands that you can produce from. So we have assiduously been going after those. In fact, over the last 5 or 6 years, we have done around 1/3 of the recompletions on the island in comparison to any other operator. So we've been very, very focused on those recompletion. And the reason for that is because it's low risk and the returns are such that those projects tend to pay back within months, 3 to 6 months, depending on what type of production we get. So they are very good projects. But as you do more and more of those unless you have new wellbores to access, then the pool of those start to reduce. So we are in sort of the phase where we are looking at wells that have existing production with recompletions uphole, but we need to get those that production level down uneconomic rates of production before we move uphole. So the amount of [indiscernible] that we used to do, [indiscernible] is on the decline. So those projects are reduced. So therefore, how do we get into higher return projects. Jacobin was an attempt in that. We've clearly learned a lot. We need to guard our thoughts on that. We need to look at the information. We need to continue with investigated work. And once we've done that, then we make a decision as to what next we will move on to. We will have preferred the $8.3 million to be in shareholder pockets considering the need of rewarding shareholders as your main task. We have contemplated that. We've reflected that in our capital allocation decisions. We are reaching cash to shareholders, but we also recognize 2,800 barrels of oil per day that is declining. We also need to reinvest into projects that will both stabilize and grow our production and allow us to be here in the longer term in terms of longer-term returns to shareholders and surviving in longer term. So you will see that the capital allocation hopper, as we described before, will consist of CapEx that is both sustaining as well as growth but also we'll be setting aside a certain level of cash to return to shareholders on an annual basis. The next question is Jacobin has been a major drain on the company resources? Where will you next drill and how will you fund it? A really interesting question. I mean certainly, we did not budget pretty well to be costing us $8.3 million. Where will be next drill? Well, now that we have perforated and we are accessing the reserves in the Lower Cruse 3 and now the Lower Cruse 1 zones, I think it's important for us to understand how extensive these reservoirs are and that's 1 of the reasons that we're doing the pressure buildup tests currently that will allow us an understand what zones are commercial, what zones makes sense for us to drill. And importantly, these are within our own 7,000 to 7,500 feet. So these are just about 1,000 feet deeper than we usually drill and drilling to 6,500 feet tends to cost us between $2 million to $2.2 million. So I would envisage that if we were going to 7,500 feet, that the cost of the well will be tending more towards that $2.2 million versus any $8.3 million that we see with this well that was drilled to 10,000 feet because a lot of challenges that we had, we've been getting from sort of 8,500 to 10,000 feet, and that's where we spend a lot of time trying to get to the Lower Cruse 3 zone. So I would envisage that we would gather data. We will then make an assessment as to whether there was any further reservoir potential for us to drill into the Jacobin Lower Cruse 1 zone. But whilst we're in that, we'll also be maturing Buenos Ayres prospects and then looking at the opportunities that we have there. I think it might be worth me spending a time, a minute or 2 and segueing on to Buenos Ayres. And Buenos Ayres, to remind you all, is a much stronger license because there is not a sublicense where we are seconded to the up state through the Heritage. But this is actually a head license with the state the Buenos Ayres field is an E&P license. It's pure exploration. There is no production. There are no drill wells within this block. So we, with the first instance, we'll be looking to invest and explore. We think Buenos Ayres block the royalties that we paid there are only 1 royalty to the state, there's no royalty to the state oil company Heritage. So and we also have full control in terms of how we operate and how we go about drilling within the Buenos Ayres block. So it's a stronger commercial contract. In terms of exploration, we have committed to the Ministry of Energy that we would drill 4 exploration wells. So within the Buenos Ayres block, which sits 500 meters away from oil largest onshore producing block, which is already WD-5/6 block. The geology that we see in WD-5/6 continues and is continuous with what we see in Buenos Ayres. So that's very encouraging. The team has identified a number of 4 panels that we would be interested in investigating in the initial phase and on the last presentation, we described there were 4, 4 panels labeled ABC and D with a range of so -- between 5 million to 10 million-barrel in each with [ SAT per year ] across the Lower Cruse, the Upper Cruse -- sorry, within the Forest sands, the Upper Cruse and the Lower Cruse. And I would envisage that we would be -- if we will get it into Buenos Ayres, when we have the prospects identifying we have the environmental license, which we are currently pursuing. Once we have those in place, we would be looking at potentially drilling our well within Buenos Ayres in later on in 2024 or early in 2025, depending on what the investigation on Jacobin throws up. Next question is the sand blockage on LC3 the water and emulsion rates of LC1 are certainly price sensitive issues according to AIM Rule 11 that requires notification without delay of any new developments, which are not public knowledge, which, if made public, would cause a significant movement in the share price. Clearly, and on this [indiscernible] this has been the case. Look at the market response the board has used. I declare that you have withheld information from us, your loyal investors and we have suffered grossly and accordingly and that you have not abided by AIM rule regulation 11. I just want to take the opportunity to reiterate, to everyone who's listening today and those who will see this we, as an AIM company, must have a nominated advisor with us and our nominated advisor guides us as the -- how we operate our business against all of the [indiscernible] notwithstanding and throughout this process, and it's a dynamic process in terms of drilling and then testing the Jacobin well. And on a daily basis, a number of things happen, but there are certain milestones that we achieve. And this is what we described [indiscernible] this is what we've agreed with them, and we've adhere to that plan in terms of at certain times when we update markets. In fact, the updates that we've been doing with in recent times have been above and beyond what is required from a market regulation perspective. So hopefully, that goes some way in terms of describing how we go about approaching our regulatory duties. In similar vein, there's another question that says, there has unequivocally been insider selling. One can deny, but the truth is there to see the information has leaked. It was your duty to keep information confidential. Sorry, only last Friday, there was a 100,000 share after hour sell 1 day or 10 days ago, that was a huge sell off this has been trading on insider knowledge on available to investors one can deny, but it is clear to see. And there's another similar comment later on that relates price-sensitive information being released in an irregular manner. I -- Just the Board and management team that I work with, we hold ourselves to the highest standards of integrity. We adhere to the codes and the rules that we subscribe to and part of that is making sure that any information that we release is released in an equal manner to all shareholders in terms of an equal timing as well. In no way I -- am I aware of or within my team aware of any sort of behavior that is described like this. And in fact, even that's not something that this Board and management team will subscribe to in any way. A simpler question is, will you be upholding the -- this says 3.5p dividend as promised, but actually promised 1.5p. We pay 1/3 of that in October, and we intend to pay to remainder that once the full year results are released in half 1 of 2024. The next question is, I proffer that you should attempt to sell assets such as Galeota. I'm concentrated on what you can do. You really cannot afford Galeota alone. The asset sale could repay shareholders and be used for less risky onshore drills and [indiscernible] drill. I think that's a really interesting question, certainly from where we stand as a company, the organic cash flows that we have looking at the market reactions, the recent news that we've had on way the share prices, I think accessing capital, whether debt and that will always require some level of equity associated with it is something that would pass is going to be difficult for us to access. And I certainly think where the sentiment is with Trinity rate now that recent equity, will probably be quite disastrous. So I agree that trying for us to move forward in Galeota is a difficult task, but I think nonetheless Galeota represents a significant portion of our reserves and resources nearly 70% of the company's reserves and resources lined within Galeota and it has a potential to be transformed to opportunity, whether it's from us moving the project forward on our own, whether it's from us moving forward with a partner or outright sale there is significant value within Galeota and the Board and management team are very much focused on continuing to invest in Galeota to get to the point where we have an investable project. At that point, we'll determine whether we can afford to move forward on our own, whether on a [indiscernible] or not or whether it's better to move forward with a partner or outright sell. But I think the focus for us right now it's a continue the sub-surface work on Galeota. We've described what some of the conceptual -- what other conceptual development cases will be, we are focused on looking at getting back into drilling lower risk, [indiscernible] of existing infrastructure with existing export route. So that lowers the project delivery risk and the sub-surface risk we are currently quality assuring that as I speak, the team is focused on that. So I would hope that we can describe that project and provide scoping economics so that during the course of half 1 next year and tell you why that is interesting for us or also interesting for another -- perhaps another partner or if we even get to that point potentially moving that asset on for the benefit of shareholders. I'll move to some of the questions that we have received today. So just bear with me once I scroll through that list, please. A question in from Colin L. is, shall we take it out [indiscernible] will be your next drill? I think I've explained from our perspective, Palo Seco remains a very interesting strategic option, and it has a number of short term in catalysts, whether it will be the existing Jacobin well, what will that produce from the Lower Cruse 1 zone. And to remind you all that we drill through 2 developments and so it is the Upper Cruse and the Forest sands within that well that will allow us if the Lower Cruse zone -- Lower Cruse 1 zone is not economic, we will move uphole very quickly and start to produce from those and get payback on this well. If it is, however, that the investor gets to work determines that -- this further reservoir to get after. We will add that into our opportunity hopper and see what that means in terms of risk and reward. Buenos Ayres, we are looking at the [indiscernible], we are coming up with our own prospects and turning those into drillable prospects. We are pursuing the environmental impact assessment simultaneously and then therefore, the certificate for environment clearance. So we are building the options to drill in Palo Seco area within the next, I would say, 12 to 18 months whilst we're in that we will be replenishing the balance sheet from the existing production and the cash flow from there, we will get a significant boost from the change in SPT if and when that is enacted. So you will see us for the next 6 months, not actually moving forward in terms of drilling plans, but taking that information, building the opportunity hopper and then towards the middle of next year you should be hearing from us where our next start well will be. But it could be very likely that Buenos Ayres could be the next well -- next drill, next well that we drill. But stay tuned and we'll update you in due course. Next question is, how can we rely upon pledge regular communication when it failed again this month. I think we've been most active in the markets and coming to market in nearly every 2 to 3 weeks. So we've been guiding the market as on what the milestones are, when we would come back to market and we've been adhering to those. In fact, when it came to the perforation of the Lower Cruse 1 zone, we guided that we'd be back with investors to give news on that in or on this time in December, we managed in this instance, beat the timetable there. And we've now done some well testing, we got the [indiscernible] market on that. So from -- certainly from my perspective, we have been very frequent to market. We are keeping investors very attune of what is happening with Jacobin play with the next steps, what Jacobin is up, I expect that we go back into routine operations. They will have the quarterly updates. We will provide a quarter 4 update in late Jan as guided previously, and the guidance for 2024 will also be provided within that period. I also expect that within January, we should get news on the SPT reform. And of course, we will be providing information to shareholders on that once we have full clarity that, that has been enacted. There's a question, is the dividend which is payable in 2024, 1.5p or 3p? As we guided, the dividend is 1.5p. 0.5p of that has been paid, and the remaining pence will be paid once the full year 2023 results have been published. So as what level of production in bopd would be needed to consider $8.3 million a worthwhile investment, not only to how to be looking at production from this well in excess of 400 bopd. So right now, we are not close to that. So my view is, from the perspective of this well, we are probably hearing more to this, that this investment is unlikely to pay for itself in a short period of time. It's probably going to take a long time because there is oil to be recovered from this well, whether it's from the Lower Cruse 1 zone, whether it's from the Upper Cruse, whether it is from the Upper -- Forest zones. This well will pay back for a time frame. It is going to be quite long for that to happen. So from that perspective, I can say geologically, the model has been proven. But from a drilling perspective, we have had some challenges which have increased the cost and then we are seeing that the productivity of these zones for 1 reason or the other, whether it is reservoir, whether it's mechanical and what we're investigating right now is pointing towards a well that's going to be on the low end of the production scale than sort of the mid- to high range. There's a question here is when will directors be pushing in shares on the open market to show their confidence and support in the company. But let me start from where we are. Currently, there are at least 3 directors who hold shares, so our non-exec Chair, Nicholas Clayton holds shares, James Menzies, also holds shares within the company, and I own a significant amount of shares in the company as well. Given what we've been going through with Jacobin, we have guided by own [indiscernible] that we are in the close period. And therefore, as insiders we are not allowed to trade. So we were just not capable of trading in the past. But also in addition to that, as we subscribe to the QC, Quoted Companies Alliance code, and that code is changing and what the change that has been moved in terms of non exec directors is that they should try to remain as independent as possible, and therefore, minimize any exposure to the equity of the company to maintain independent thinking at the Board level. So I'd expect that we -- whilst this is not yet enacted and those changes are due to be enacted in the April of next year. That will -- that's the direction of travel that you would see us start moving towards. Nonetheless, Executive Directors, such as myself, Julian Kennedy and the remainder of the management team, a significant portion of our remuneration is based on the performance of the equity within the company. So we are incentivized alongside shareholders who invest in the company to also improve the share price performance of that company. And those rules, those criteria are set out very clearly in the announcements that we've made as it pertains to the awards of long-term incentive plan. EOD, what is Trinity's plan for financing the next round of drilling. Trinity can't afford another $8 million well through organic financing? Will you look to use your overdraft or raise money at 36 feet. So set it out before, but I like to make this crystal clear. Certainly, I think within the next 6 to 9 months, you're going to see a consolidation from a [ series ] of information that we have gathered in terms of being able to guide the decision making on other opportunities to move the business forward. We are committed to putting a certain level of the operating cash flow that we generate towards growth of the business. But I would say in the next 6 to 9 months, what you're going to see from us is a consolidation in terms of the cash that we spend but I'm going to -- we're going to try to maximize the amount of operating cash flow that we generate into free cash flow that will then replenish the balance sheet. You're going to see us looking at our cost structure, trying to make that even leaner than we currently are, and therefore, drive the breakeven of the business down, which internal do 2 things, make us resilience to the oil prices but also in [ return ] allow us to maximize the operating cash flow. So right now, I agree we are not going to take on another $8 million well in any means. And if we are going to look to use all overdraft, our all overdraft is used primarily to match the VAT refunds that we have outstanding with the government. So as we invest, for example, Jacobin was a significant investment. There was VAT associated with that. And that meant that will VAT outstanding balance will out raising. You will see that the overdraft that we have will likely increase so much that VAT overdraft so that we are using the working capital facility to manage that working capital exposure that we have there. But I don't envisage we're going to use that overdraft facility to drill and therefore, use debt for any type of explorations or drilling at all. In terms of raising money, that's not on the cards at the moment. The plan is, focus on the production that we have, minimized the decline, look at the cost structure, try and reduce where we can, maximize operating cash flow and try to bring as much of that onto the balance sheet. Affan N. asks, can you please comment on the share price performance. The company was buying back shares at ATP? What does the company think of the share price right now? Affan, where we are, the share price as it stands today, I look at the market cap this morning, which is in our own USD 17 million or USD 18 million. You compare that to our operating cash flow guidance for this year. And we said that, that would be USD 12 million. So you're looking at no comparison to this year. And I expect that next year will be a high operating cash flow we are trading at somewhere in terms of market cap ratio, the operating cash flow of the business, somewhere between 1.25 to 1.5x of our operating cash flow. We have demonstrated in the past that we are very good at managing the production declines. We've managed our cost structure and kept that intact for a number of years. Of course, post-COVID, we've seen significant impacts on inflation, but also we increased the cost base to try and do growth projects like Jacobin and move Galeota forward. Right now, my view on the share price is that the share price does not reflect the fundamentals of this business by any means. And from that perspective, we are undervalued. But where we are right now in terms of making a decision to buy back up a business, return cash to shareholders through dividends or other means. I think those decisions are before the Board right now, not the dividend per se, sorry, because that absolutely set in stone. But whether we're going to return cash to shareholders, my advice would be at this point in time, I would like to see us replenish the balance sheet, cash balance and then from there make a decision and see where we are. But it's about being patient and focus on the fundamentals of this business within the next 6 to 9 months. Nick G. asks, should you not consider marketing Galeota of sale. I think I've somewhat answered this before, but in summary, yes. We will consider doing that. But where we are focused right now is making sure that we can describe a low-risk project from a sub-surface from a project delivery risk, working that project up, scoping economics internally look very encouraging, describing that to the market. And then where we understand what the funding gap is required to make the decision, so whether we can proceed our own, whether we need a partner or an outright sale, so that the shareholders kind of reap the benefits of those significant reserves and resources. Let's -- I mean, there's 1 more comment here about the -- Cliff W., that says I was part of the QCA team who wrote the original QCA code, and we wrote that [indiscernible] executive directors with skin in the game improvise alignment with shareholders. We favored buying shares or partly being -- or being paid partly in shares but not an option for any -- for nonexecutive directors. I was at a minority view and that I favored options for companies who consumed -- to consume cash for investments. Corporate governance calls comply or explain. You should explain why you wish to align your [ NEDs ] with shareholders. [ Rusting ] all would not have [indiscernible] to those woke governance ideas. I think what I described is what the QCA quote is and where we will need to discuss is clearly very new in terms of the changes, but it's pointing in a direction of more independence of thought and removing group think from the Board. So I think it's something for discussion. But as described previously, 2 of our nonexecutive directors holds that shares currently. And myself, I hold a significant amount of shares and have a lot of exposure to the share price and those long-term incentive planning -- remuneration plan, sorry. So I think right now, where we are, we don't have a full decision on that, but I expect the decision to be in favor of where the QCA quote is going in terms of maintaining the independence of the NEDs. But once we made that decision, we have our stance, we will update our quoted -- our QCA feedback that we have on our website and update them accordingly in due course and let you know, which should be towards the middle part of next year where we produce alignment report. I think at this point in time, I would just like to pause and infact stop it into the question I've answered most of the questions. Any questions that we don't answer. Of course, we'll provide feedback to those and post them up on the IMC website within the next few days or so. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your attention. Thanks for the questions, which were really helpful.

Perfect. Jeremy, thank you very much for updating investors today. Could I please ask investors not to close this session as you now be automatically redirected to provide your feedback in order that the management can better understand your views and expectations. This going take a few moments to complete but I'm sure will be greatly valued by the company. On behalf of the management Trinity Exploration & Production plc, we'd like to thank you for attending today's presentation, and good afternoon to you all.