TREVI - Finanziaria Industriale S.p.A. (TFIN) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning. This is the Chorus Call conference operator. Welcome, and thank you for joining the Trevi Group Half Year 2026 Financial Results Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Mr. Giuseppe Caselli, CEO of Trevi. Please go ahead, sir.

Good morning, everybody. Ladies and gentlemen, we are here to present the first half results of 2026 and to give you the major highlights and the guidance on 2026 end of the year. As we can say that, we are recording a very high commercial momentum. We have an order intake on the first half that is EUR 424 million and with a 1.6 book-to-bill ratio. The backlog as of today, as of the 30 June reached its maximum level that has never been achieved after the selling of the Oil & Gas Division of the former Trevi Group and stands at EUR 928 million backlog. That definitely is a sign of the good health of the company and its visibility for the months to come. What is more important to say about this backlog is to classify the criticism that we have been subject in the past that we have been able to diversify more and more our backlog in the different part of the world. Later on, we are going to give you a flavor where we have been able to succeed in our opportunities. The revenue trajectory is as we were expecting and as have been confirmed during the previous part of the year during the various conference call and the call with the investor during the restructuring process. The second part of the year definitely will have an acceleration in terms of revenue, acceleration that has been already seen in the month of June and more important between the first quarter and the second quarter of 2026. And definitely, all the recent awards that has been achieved in the last period give us the confidence to support the second half 2026 as well as the 2027 revenues. The other important element that I would like to highlight to bring to the floor is our recurring EBITDA on the first semester that improved to 14.8%. And considering our reference market -- our reference peer, we are proud to say that it is one of the highest that has been recorded. In terms of refinancing, as was mentioning, the rights issue has been completed successfully, very successfully and the refinancing funded at the beginning of July. The net debt reduced to approximately EUR 92 million only at 30 June 2026 with a leverage ratio of 1.13. So basically, in a nutshell, EUR 424 million order intake, one of the highest that have been achieved in the semester; EUR 920 million backlog; EUR 92 million net debt; 14.8% the recurring EBITDA. In terms of guidance, would like to confirm that the guidance that we gave on 2026 remain unchanged. I now leave the floor to our CFO, Vincenzo, to give you some highlights on the new financing structure overview. Please, Vincenzo.

Thank you, Gigi and good morning to everyone. Let me now turn to our financing structure, which represents a major milestone in TREVI's transformation journey. During the last few weeks, we successfully completed a comprehensive financial strengthening process consisting of EUR 100 million rights issue, a EUR 180 million long-term refinancing and a new package of bonding and working capital facilities. This was not simply a refinancing transaction. It marks the completion of the financial restructuring process that started several years ago and provides Trevi with a significantly stronger capital structure. Looking first at the rights issue, the transaction was completed with 100% subscription rate and without any intervention from the underwriting syndicate. And we consider this as a very important signal of confidence from the market, because the existing shareholders confirmed their commitment by subscribing their pro-rata entitlement while all remaining shares were successfully absorbed by investors. And the outcome demonstrates the confidence of the financial community in Trevi's strategy, in Trevi operating performance and the future prospectus. Turning to the refinancing. At the beginning of July, we completed the funding of the new EUR 180 million long-term financing facility provided by a pool of leading financial institutions. The new debt structure extend our financial visibility through 2031 and provides a repayment profile fully aligned with the cash generation characteristic of our business. And let me say that, this also significantly enhances the financial flexibility and allows management to focus on operational execution and profitable growth rather than the balance sheet management. And in parallel, we secured more than EUR 170 million of bonding facility and over EUR 70 million of short-term operating credit lines. And as you know, for an engineering and infrastructure group such as Trevi, access to this facility is a critical competitive factor. And once again, this confirms the confidence that our banking partners have in the Group and ensures the full support for future business development. So overall, the successful completion of this financing package fundamentally changed Trevi's position because today, Trevi operates with a substantial strengthening capital base, a long-term financing platform and the financial flexibility required to pursue its growth strategy. And we believe that the Group is now entering a new phase of development with a focus on value creation, execution of industrial plan and disciplined profitable growth. Let me now move to our net financial position and more importantly, to the transformation of Trevi's capital structure. Looking at the figures on this slide, the most important message is not the absolute level of debt, but the profound improvement in the quality, sustainability and flexibility of our financial structure, because at the end of 2025, Trevi reported a net financial position of approx EUR 187 million, corresponding to a net debt to recurring EBITDA ratio of 2.19. But following the successful completion of the EUR 100 million rights issue, net debt at the end of June decreased sharply to EUR 92.1 million with the leverage ratio reduced to 1.13. So in only 6 months, and thanks to the rights issue, leverage has been reduced by around 50%, representing a major strengthening of the Group's balance sheet and financial profile. However, the June figures do not yet fully reflect the completion of the overall financing package because as we said a few seconds ago, the new long-term refinancing was funded at the beginning of July and therefore falls outside the accounting perimeter of the half year closing date. And that's why in this slide, we are also presenting a pro-forma view, reflecting the capital structure after completion of all financing-related transactions. And what is relevant in the pro-forma view is the complete reshaping of the debt profile, because the previous restructuring related facility has been fully repaid and replaced by a new long-term financing package supported by a pool of leading financial institutions. And as a result, Trevi moves from a restructuring-driven capital structure to a conventional long-term financial platform, fully aligned with the industrial profile and future growth ambitions. And the pro-forma figures also include a prudent treatment of the EUR 50 million minibond maturing at year-end. Although, the minibond remains outstanding at 30 June, its repayment has been fully secured through funds received under the new financing package and deposited into a dedicated escrow account. So consequently, both the minibond and the related escrow cash have been excluded from the pro-forma net debt calculation, because the repayment risk has effectively already been eliminated. And in addition, the pro-forma figures incorporate about EUR 12 million of transaction costs associated with the successful completion of the financing package, including advisory fees, underwriting fees, banking fee and other one-off transaction costs paid after June. So we believe this provides investors with a conservative and economically meaningful representation of Group's financial position following the completion of the transaction. And looking at pro-forma net debt, now the pro-forma stands at EUR 95 million with a net debt to recurring EBITDA of 1.17. And as I said, we reflect fully the cost of transaction and therefore, we consider to be the most realistic picture of Trevi's post refinancing capital structure. And now Trevi combines a stronger equity base, a long-term debt structuring extending to 2031, securing bonding capacity and also substantial liquidity resources. If we take together all these elements, we placed the Group in a fundamentally different position compared to only a few years ago. Let me say that the balance sheet is no longer a restructuring story. And now the management can move the focus from the financial restructuring activities to backlog execution, profitability improvement and deliver the Group's strategy. Let me hand back to Gigi.

Thank you, Vincenzo. Very exploratory. Well, we go back to the numbers, in terms of P&L performances. In terms of revenue, as you can see in the slide, we reported the evolution of the various key elements of the P&L performances along this year compared to the year-to-year first half. This year, the revenue stands at EUR 271 million that is lower than the previous first year 2025 that was standing at EUR 312. In 2024 it was EUR 262 million. In first half 2025, the reflection was the fact -- the amount of revenues was due to the fact of the phasing of the various projects, have impacts from the acquisition, to the mobilization, to the execution. So it's a phasing process that you have to reflect year-to-year and it varies year-to-year. In terms of recurring EBITDA, first half 2026, we reached the level of EUR 40 million with an EBITDA percentage of 14.8% compared to the 14.2% of 2025 and the 10.2% of 2024. In terms of adjusted net profit, as you can see, there is a clear positive trend that stands at EUR 12.7 million in the first half 2026, versus EUR 11.3 million on the first half 2025 and EUR 5.4 million that was in 2024. So we can say that we were able to -- as I was anticipating all through my call in the during the year, during the session in process, the phasing of the projects are following the trend that we were envisaging. Everything is going so far as per plan with minor adjustment as it normally happen in our activities because everything can happen at any point in time, any moment in time. However, our analysis that we made in the beginning of the year are confirming what we were envisaging at that time, what we were forecasting in terms of evolution. In terms of net debt, we are, as Vincenzo was mentioning at EUR 92.1 million compared to EUR 190 million of the first half 2025, thanks to the refinancing the right issue. In terms of leverage ratio, of course, you can see the tremendous improvement that has been achieved from 2024, where we were 3x in first half 2024, 1.9x in first half 2025 and as of today, 1.1x. That for a company that is in this type of business is quite a commendable result. What I would like to stress and underline to see the good health of the company is how the pipeline, commercial pipeline is going, because this gives you an overview of what could happen in the future in terms of project evolution, in terms of revenue evolution, in terms of EBITDA evolution, in terms of health of the company itself. As we were mentioning as of today -- I'm sorry, as of 30 of June, the order intake reached the level of EUR 424 million that compared to 2025 that was at EUR 384 million. As you can see and you can see in the slide, the evolution of the order intake half year by half year show a steady, constant improvement. There are no sparks, there are no elements that are disruptive or exceptionally positive way increasing the order intake, but you can see a constant trend and evolution that confirm the intention that the management has on the company to have a continuous steady improvement of our result operationally and of course, economically -- financially. The growth compared to 2025 is 21%. The book-to-bill, as I was mentioning, is 1.6. So it means it's an indicator that give an extremely good health of what we are looking forward. The TREVI Division has in terms of order intake EUR 363 million and the Soilmec Division EUR 74 million. We know very well what is the difference in terms of order intake for the two divisions. Of course, there is a completely different logic between the 2. What are the major acquisition that we had in 2026? Definitely Middle East continues to be an extremely important part of our acquisition and backlog. Situation is ongoing, and we don't see any sign so far of the reduction in terms of business commercial opportunities due to the surrounding situation in the area that so far do not provide any major negative impact. Definitely, we are increasing our order intake in the U.S., North America -- sorry, Middle East -- Far East Asia-Pacific, sorry. In Asia-Pacific, we have been able to secure one of the projects that we were following since quite a long time that was one of the cornerstones of our commercial pipeline that is the project in Papua New Guinea is a frontier place is a complicated job. However, these are the jobs that we are looking for. These are the projects that we are targeting. It is the project where not so much competition could be called on this tender due to the complexity, due to the complexity in terms of operation, complex in terms of logistics, complexity in terms of execution. Then Indonesia and then Philippines that finally this year seems to be that there is a new wave of projects coming along that we expect this wave to run also in 2027. And then Europe, Europe has a very, very important part of our backlog. And this is another indication how we were able to distribute our workforce equipment and efforts around the world. Together with maintaining our focus also in Africa, especially in Nigeria and Algeria, where we are completing an important project as of today on the metro Algeria, and we are expecting for the next year another part of this project to continue to sustain our operation and our activities. In terms of backlog, backlog, as mentioned in the beginning, has reached the highest peak since the selling of the Oil & Gas Division. So since the new wave of Trevi. And of course, with this type of backlog support a strong revenue visibility and future growth for the company. Compared to 2025, the backlog has increased 25% for an amount of around EUR 180 million. The backlogs cover roughly 90% of the revenue of 2026. Of course, there is a segmentation between Trevi and Soilmec. On Trevi, basically, the backlog cover almost the entire revenue of 2026. So we are above 95%, 96%. Soilmec definitely is lower, but this is as the market is. There is nothing new, nothing different on what we were expecting. In terms of backlog by geography, where previous years, there was a sort of criticism that we were extremely concentrated in one area. But even if we were concentrating in that area, we successfully delivered all the projects and nothing has been canceled or changed. Of course, there are difficulties due to -- more difficulties to carry on activities in a certain situation. However, this do not disturb much our operation. As you can see, Europe is covering 34%; Far East, 24%; North America, 17%; Middle East and Asia, 17%; Africa, 6%; Latin America, 2%. And we are very convinced to maintain this global footprint because if you do an analysis of what was happening from 2019 to today, you can see that there is always a change of shift in terms of opportunities around the world. And the important element for a company like ours is to be extremely, extremely flexible to the demand. We cannot pretend to build up a market. We have to eventually try to anticipate where the market will develop and to be in a position to grab the opportunities that the market will give us. If you arrive later than the other, nothing will be left on the table. You will eat crumble. We will need to be really vigilant and our footprints allow us to give the certainty that in case other opportunities will arise, we will be able to get it. In fact, we are looking to other countries where we are monitoring certain important projects, Central America, Africa and as soon as they will mature, we will be able to take it. I will now leave again the table to Vincenzo for the next part.

Thanks, Gigi. Let me now turn to revenues and profitability. So the first half, as already anticipated by the CEO, developed broadly in line with the expectation we had previously communicated to the market. As anticipated, revenues were below the first half of 2025, mainly reflecting project timing and natural phasing of recently awarded contracts. In particular, a significant portion of projects acquired during the second half of 2025 and the first half of 2026 are expected to contribute more meaningfully to revenues during the second half of the year and throughout 2027. However, we believe that the most relevant information on this slide is not the year-on-year comparison. The most important message is the sequential trend that is already visible within 2026, because the revenue increased from EUR 180 million in the first quarter to more than EUR 153 million in the second quarter, so representing a growth of over 30% quarter-on-quarter. And this confirms that the revenue acceleration we expected from backlog conversion is already underway. And this trend is also fully consistent with the commercial indicators we discussed in the previous slides. Order intake, a record backlog are progressively converting into production, activity and revenues. And with the backlog reaching EUR 928 million, the Group enters in the second half with a substantially greater visibility than in the previous period. Equally important, the profitability remains very solid. There is a decline by 13.2% year-on-year on recurring EBITDA about the revenue. However, the EBITDA decreased by less than 10%, demonstrating the resilience of the operating model. And as a matter of fact, recurring EBITDA margin improved from 14.2% in the first half of 2025 to 14.8% in the first half of 2026, despite the lower revenue base. And this margin, as was emphasized by the CEO, reflects the continued operating discipline, the project selectivity and the favorable business mix. And the improvement is even more visible if we look at quarterly performance because the recurring EBITDA increased from EUR 16 million in the Q1 to more than EUR 24 million in the second quarter, so representing a growth of over 50%. Overall, we believe that these results confirm 2 important points. First, the temporary softness in the first half revenue was primarily a matter of phasing rather than demand. And second point, the combination of record backlog, accelerating quarterly revenue and solid profitability provides a strong platform for the execution during the second half of the year. Moving now to our revenue footprint. I would say that the key message on this slide is the increasing diversification of Group's revenue. While Europe and Middle East remains our largest markets, the revenue mix is today more balanced than in the previous year when the Group was much more exposed in the Middle East. And looking forward, we expect North America and Far East to contribute to the increase of revenue as recently awarded projects will enter in the execution phase. So overall, this balanced geographical footprint supports both the growth opportunities and the business resilience over time. Let's now focus on the performance of the 2 divisions, and let's start with the TREVI Division. As already highlighted in the other slides, the year-on-year comparison is mainly influenced by different stage of execution of project portfolio, because in the first half of 2025, a number of projects were already in their more mature execution phase. By contrast, in the first half of 2026, several newer projects are still ramping up and have not yet made their full contribution in terms of revenue. So total revenue are about EUR 225 million and recurring EBITDA is EUR 36 million. Both are below the level recorded in the first half of last year, but we view this as a primarily timing effect rather than a change in the underlying fundamental of the business. And in fact, the commercial performance remains very strong because order intake reached EUR 363 million and the backlog increased to EUR 888 million, providing substantial support for activity levels in the second half of 2026 and beyond. Another positive aspect as we have seen also in the slide about the revenue footprint is the increasing diversification of project portfolio because comparing to the previous year, the activity now is supported by a broader range of projects and more balanced geographical footprint, reducing dependence on any individual project or region. And at the same time, also the profitability remains solid because the recurring EBITDA stood at 16%, broadly in line with the last year. I would say this is a signal of resilience of the operating model and the quality of our current backlog. So about this slide, the key message is straightforward. The first half reflects project execution timing, while order intake, and backlog and more diversified portfolio provide confidence in a stronger revenue contribution during the second half of the year. Moving now to the Soilmec Division. The key message is the clear improvement in profitability despite a temporary reduction in revenue. Revenue declined by 10% due to a timing effect and also due to lower sales in Italian market, partially offset by higher sales in Australia and U.S.A. However, the commercial momentum activity remains solid because the order intake reached approx EUR 74 million, in line with the same period of last year and the backlog stood at EUR 47 million, slightly above the level recorded a year ago. And if we consider the Soilmec's production cycle, the current backlog provides good revenue visibility for the second half of 2026, supporting our expectation for a stronger commercial contribution over the remainder of the year. But the most relevant aspect of the performance is the profitability. As we have said, we have lower revenue, but the recurring EBITDA increased by 13.1% from EUR 4.7 million to EUR 5.3 million and the EBITDA margin moved from 7.5% to 9.4%. And this improvement is fully consistent with the strategic initiatives outlined in our industrial plan, because we are benefiting from a more favorable machine mix, a greater contribution from new generation of equipment, increased penetration in higher-margin markets and ongoing efficiency initiatives across the manufacturing and the supply chain processes. And these actions are progressively improving the quality of revenue and supporting a structurally stronger profitability profile. Looking at the second half of the year, we expect the backlog to convert into revenue and so to align the result more or less with what was the result of the year 2025, while maintaining a continued focus on margin quality and operational efficiency. Let me now briefly comment on the Group P&L. We have already discussed revenue and operating performance, so I focus on the main item driving the net profit. Depreciation and amortization amounted to EUR 13.1 million, down from EUR 14.7 million in the first half of last year. And the decrease mainly reflects lower depreciation related to IFRS 16 leases and lower depreciation on certain fixed assets. Financial expenses declined from EUR 14 million to EUR 12.2 million. The main driver of the reduction in financial expenses is about lower cash interest costs, reflecting both the reduction in financial indebtedness and the lower utilization of working capital facilities. And in the EUR 12.2 million of financial expenses we have, cash interest expenses amounting to EUR 5.2 million compared to EUR 6.7 million of first half of 2025, so EUR 1.5 million lower. And also, as in the previous period, financial expenses still include the accounting impact of IFRS 9 linked to 2022 financial restructuring, and this impact amounts to EUR 5.6 million. So as we said at the beginning, the refinancing was completed in July, and the repayment of the restructuring facility was done. So we are now approaching the end of this legacy accounting effect. Around EUR 6 million will be recognized in the second half of 2026 and after that, the IFRS 9 deriving from the restructuring will no longer affect our financial result. About income taxes, we have total amount of income taxes for the period of EUR 6.3 million, down of EUR 2.2 million versus the first half of last year. And the reduction is about, I would say, a more favorable geographical mix of taxable profits. As a result, combining those elements, reported net profit increased to EUR 7.2 million, up from EUR 6.1 million reported in the first half of 2025. And consistently with what we have communicated and presented in the past periods, we have reported in the last line also the adjusted net profit. And the purpose is simply to provide a clearer view of the Group's underlying profitability by excluding the IFRS 9 accounting impact. On this basis, the adjusted net profit is EUR 12.7 million and is compared to EUR 11.3 million in the same period of last year. And about the first half of 2026, the difference of EUR 5.5 million between the reported and adjusted earnings is exactly the IFRS 9 charge recognizing during the period. Let me now focus on the slide about the free cash flow from operation. In the first half of 2026, free cash flow remained positive at EUR 5.1 million, supported by a solid recurring EBITDA of EUR 40 million. However, cash generation was affected by temporary working capital absorption. This was mainly linked to the timing of project execution rather than a change in the underlying performance of the business. In particular, activity accelerated significantly during May and above all June, leading to a buildup of work in progress at the end of the period. And as we see in the right-hand side of the slide, a portion of the work performed had not yet been invoiced at the end of June. And these amounts are expected to convert into invoicing starting from July, supporting cash generation during the second half of the year. But if we look at the quarterly trend, the progression is already visible because the free cash flow was negative by EUR 9.5 million in the first quarter, while the second quarter generated EUR 14.6 million. And combining the 2 quarters, the first half free cash flow is EUR 5.1 million, confirming the improvement in cash generation as the year progressed. Looking at the bridge EBITDA to free cash flow, it helps to explain the first half dynamics because the recurring EBITDA is strong at EUR 40 million, while the main cash absorption came from working capital, largely driven, as I just said, by temporary increase in work in progress associated with the project ramp-up. So we, therefore, view the first half cash profile principally as a timing effect. Looking ahead, as work in progress converts into invoicing and collection, we expect a gradual normalization of working capital. So together with the contribution from projects entering full execution, this should support a stronger cash conversion profile during the second half of the year. Let me now hand back to Gigi for the guidance and the closing remarks.

Thank you, Vincenzo. So going back to the guidance, as was mentioned in the beginning, the guidance for 2026 is confirmed as the commercial momentum that we have will translate, it is translating already into operational performance. We foresee Group revenues between range between EUR 640 million and EUR 670 million. Of course, this increase of revenues will happen in the 6 months on the second half. You have seen already in July, the trend that is following what we are envisaging. And of course, we count on the fact that this will continue towards the year-end. And this is due to the fact that the phasing of the project, the life cycles of the projects that we have are starting to boost revenues and of course, are starting to boost the results of the projects. And we really are confident that we are going to meet what we have been giving the Group revenues -- guidance of the Group revenues since the end of the year -- last year. In terms of EBITDA, we confirm the range of EUR 70 million-EUR 80 million. The first half give us the confidence of this range will be met due to the fact that we already reached the EUR 40 million EBITDA on the 6 months. And we will see how the progress will go on the various activities and projects that are ramping up right now. Regarding the net debt, I will leave the floor to Vincenzo to give you some flavor of the net debt guidance.

Thank you, Gigi. So let me briefly comment on the net debt guidance. We see on the slide that we are confirming our year-end net debt guidance in the range of EUR 90 million to EUR 100 million. So at first glance, this may appear conservative considering the backlog, considering the expected revenue acceleration during the second half and the progressive normalization of working capital dynamics. In fact, we do expect a positive operating cash flow contribution during the second half of the year, supported by the conversion of the current backlog into revenues invoicing and collection. However, it is important to remember that part of this cash generation will be absorbed by financial items that are not directly related to operating performance. And I'm talking about interest payments, repayment of debt that was not part of the restructuring agreement and cash outflow associated with the refinancing transaction completed in July. In addition, we have, as I said a few seconds ago, we have also the final residual impact connected to IFRS 9 accounting treatment related to our restructuring agreement. So as a result, while we expect a stronger cash conversion profile in the second half versus the first half, we believe considering all these items that I mentioned that we need to push out or we need to cover in terms of net financial position, we believe it is appropriate to maintain our net debt guidance within the range we have already communicated in the past. I'll add also the last point, and I think it's important because the Group combining a new stronger balance sheet, we have also flexibility to selectively evaluate growth opportunity in niche cluster, of course, remaining very focused on the financial discipline. Let me hand back to Gigi. Gigi, the floor is yours.

Thank you, Vincenzo. Well, to conclude our conference call, I would like to conclude with some important, what I consider extremely important closing remarks that give you an idea why the trust of this company has to not only remain, has to grow. We were able to complete our financing package in terms of rights issue, 100% without any type of backstop from the banks that supported us was extremely successful for those that have seen how it developed during the rights issue period. We were able to refinance EUR 180 million with banks with a long-term financing. We have achieved 14.8% EBITDA that is equated to plus 60 basis points compared to the first half 2025. We have a record backlog of EUR 928 million, backlog that has never been reached so far. We have EUR 71 million revenues on the first half as expected, as we planned. So everything is going as we were foreseeing. And what I would like to say that, we confirm our guidance in 2026 in terms of EBITDA, in terms of net financial position. And this again is something that we are extremely proud since the 2020 results that we were foreseeing, we always maintain in the year what we tell the market. We always told the market what we were expecting and we always we have been able, during this 6 years that has passed what we were able to achieve. And this, I believe, where the trust has to be, to trust us, to trust on our capability in carrying out our operation, our activities, and we hope to even improve our results. Thank you very much.

[Operator Instructions] First question is from Emanuele Gallazzi, Equita.

I have 4 questions. The first one is on the second quarter results. The profitability was high with EBITDA margin at 15.7%. I was just wondering if it includes any, let's say, special items or the release of contingencies provisions on some specific projects. The second and the third actually is on the backlog and order intake. But starting from the backlog, I think during your speech you were mentioning more complex works as a target and the potential order from Central America and Africa. And clearly, in your business plan, there is this gradual shift in the geographical mix. So in light of the, let's say, the order intake achieved in the first half of this year, could you just comment on the current quality of the backlog, particularly in terms of project profitability and execution risk compared to the previous years? And still on the order intake, could you provide some, let's say, guidance on your expected order intake for 2026? In particular, how do you see order momentum evolving during the year? And what level of book-to-bill would you consider sustainable? And a very last one, I clearly don't know if you can reply, but in case it will be useful. How do you expect your client to react to your potential entry in a new bigger Group?

The first question, if I'm not mistaken, are saying, if our EBITDA has been somehow inflated by -- I'm sorry to use the word, by special items. I can say no, absolutely not. Our approach for those that are following us since all the years that I've been CEO of this company, our approach has always been the same. We are not trying to market ourselves. When we do a project, of course, when we do a project, you know that we are working underground. And underground, sometimes it doesn't go as it should. So we are able at the completion of the project to see when you uncover, for instance, the structure that we've done underground. If everything is ongoing, and when you see that the work has been done in the way that it should be done, definitely, you are able to conclude the project at that point in time, eventual contingency that you have left in your analysis could be released. We are not trying to gamble on what it could be or we count on our -- on the fact that we are an experienced, a great, a good and excellent contractor. We always confront ourselves with the reality, and we don't try to sell more what we are confident to sell. As I say, when we are at the end, then we see what can be done in terms of results. So basically, I don't want to say that we are prudent, because we are not prudent. We are realistic, as I used to say. But being realistic, you have to consider that underground something go wrong. So you have to expect always the worst. You plan for the worst to hope for the best. So when we are sure that what we have done is done properly, then at that point in time, at the closure of the project, you have, of course, this additional possibility to improve our result. I don't know, if I was able to explain myself.

Yes, clear.

So don't expect from us a commercial approach. We are a contractor very, very, very, very pragmatic. We are pragmatic when we make guidance and estimates of what the year looks like. We are pragmatic during the execution of the project all the time. We want to maintain, and I'm proud to say that in CSQR, we have always maintained what we said even during the COVID. In terms of project complexity, when I was mentioning project complexity, definitely, as you can imagine, there are activities, projects that are bread and butter, as I used to say, that everybody can do. And of course, over there, you have the compression of the EBITDA. You have a major competition. And this is a normal life of this business. Then there are projects that are more complex. Projects that are comp that could be complex in many, many ways, different ways. For instance, Papua New Guinea, since we are in a remote island in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, already the logistic is an issue, because to reach that area is not so simple as to work in Abu Dhabi or Dubai, where you have nice asphalt road, you move your truck, the equipment with your truck, you reach the place and here you are. If you need anything in terms of spare parts or something is wrong, you pick the phone, you call somebody and somebody will come to fix your truck. So the logistic is an element. Then in Papua New Guinea, there is also another element of complexity. It's a geological situation. The geological situation is very difficult. In fact, the client that is a mining company, the most important mine company, gold mine company in the world had a very, very, very long process to whom to give the projects. And at the end of the day, only 2 remained. And I believe the 2 best-in-class BAUER and Trevi. Then it was analyzed truly and for months, the execution plan of the 2 projects and how we were able engineering-wise, geological-wise to tackle the difficulties that they have in the past. And finally, they rewarded us giving us the contract. And we are extremely, extremely proud of this achievement because it's not just an achievement for my company, for Trevi, but it's in a recognition that an Italian company was able to get awarded a contract that is considered one of the key pillar in terms of execution in the world. In terms of guidance of order intake, well, as you know, the order intake is an IO situation. It happened or it will just happen. As of today, I don't want to give any type of number, not because I don't want to give, we have a very solid, very, very solid commercial pipeline, a commercial pipeline that has been tunneling certain type of projects where we believe we can be an added value for the client. And in turn, it can be an added value for the EBITDA and the profitability, as Vincenzo was mentioning before. So there are a number of projects that are looking around the world, a world that we are not there. And again, due to the fact that we wanted to expand our horizon, we want to expand our sphere of action because only in this way you can mitigate the low spot of the market in certain area. As I used to say, we have to be very flexible to the demand. We cannot react, because if you simply react, you are late. If you are late, you eat crumble. We have to be the first one to enter as we did in Neom. Neom was a very successful story for us. Unfortunately, the project, as you know, has been put on standstill on hold, but it was that because we were there before anybody else. We were there because with our commercial antenna, our knowledge, our know-how of the area, we moved there while nobody was even remotely thinking that this project could fly. And this is our approach because these are the projects that are making the difference in terms of EBITDA, in terms of results. The remaining part of the project, as I said, is a bread and butter situation. It's something that you cannot expect. The profitability is that one. If you were, for instance, in Italy, the profitability of certain operation is that one. To dream something different is something that is not correct. Everybody can dream, then you face the reality. Then I don't remember the fourth one, I'm sorry. Sorry. How the client could react? Well, unfortunately, we are now in the middle of 2 different situations where we don't know how the client could react because we don't know what is the intention of this major -- I believe that you are referring to the IPO of Webuild. Correct me, if I'm wrong.

Yes, basically both of that.