TruAlt Bioenergy Limited (TRUALT) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q2 and H1 FY '27 Earnings Conference Call of TruAlt Bioenergy Limited. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference call over to Mr. Vijay Nirani, Managing Director. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

A very good morning to everyone. Thank you for joining this conference call. I'm happy to report the Q2 numbers for the financial year '27. There has been a growth in our revenue numbers. The results have been posted. And as expected, the prices of raw materials have gone up. And due to the prices of raw material going up, there was a shrinkage in the margins for the company for this quarter. However, thanks to the IPO that we did and the working capital limits that we have availed, going forward, we'll be able to stock up raw material at decent prices in order to make sure that we have a stable margin during operations. During the quarter, we received in access to our 24 crore liters of allocation from the public oil marketing companies, we received an additional volume of 10 crore liters, thanks to the Supreme Court judgment in the month of August. With that, our total supply or rather the allocation for the current -- for the last ethanol supply year went up from 24.5 crore liters to 34.5 crore liters. And in addition to the 34.5 crore liters, we also received an additional volume of 5 crore liters from the oil marketing companies, taking the total volume to almost 40 crore liters for the supply for the last ethanol supply year. This leads us to an average utilization of almost about 65% up to 70% of our total installed capacity. Going forward, we expect that the capacity utilization increases and we lock in an average capacity utilization of at least about 75% to 80%. The next tender for the ethanol supply year 2026, 2027, starting from November up until October of 2027 has already been announced and the tender is out now. As expected, in the current tender for the next year, there is a ban on use of sugarcane juice as well as B-heavy molasses for making ethanol. That leaves a lot of pressure on grains for manufacturing of ethanol and also C-heavy molasses. And that also means that close to about -- out of about 500-odd ethanol plants in the country, close to 230-odd plants, which are mono feed using sugarcane derivatives as raw material will not be able to supply continuous ethanol will not be able to participate in the tender for a long -- I mean, for continuous supply. So out of the total installed capacity of about 1,900 crore liters, there will be a shortage of about 300 crore liters coming in from the sugar-based ethanol plants. So that leaves close to about 1,600 crore liters expected to be supplied for the current year. And of that 1,600 crore liters considering ENA as well as the private consumption that is for the chemical industries, we expect that the allocations for the current year will be in a better shape. However, due to the El Nino impact, we will probably see a shrinkage in the bottom line because of the price of raw material and availability of raw material also. We will make all efforts to book raw material at the cheapest available prices and stock up for the whole year in order to increase our bottom line. That's on the ethanol front. In the CBG, we have already commissioned our first CBG plant under the joint venture with Sumitomo Corporation. The 20 TPD plant is up and running or rather is being ramped up to capacity. The other 2 plants will be put to use within this quarter. So that takes the entire CBG business to 4 operating plants that is infinity, which is of 12 TPD and 3 in Tor Sumi Gas Private Limited, which is a joint venture with Sumitomo Corporation. By the end of the quarter, we will have an installed CBG production capacity of about 72 metric tons a day. And going forward, we also plan to start construction of additional 6 units along with GAIL. That said, the CBG business is going to be a big revenue driver or growth driver for TruAlt considering the GOBARdhan policy that was recently announced, there have been wonderful incentives and packages that are available for company that will end up creating a huge valuable opportunity for our growth plan in the CBG sector. In the sustainable aviation fuel business, our front-end engineering is ongoing, and we were expecting that the policy for incentive and the road map would have been announced by now. But due to certain clarity required, we still don't see the road map coming in from the government of India. Once the road map is out, we plan to start making CapEx for the sustainable aviation fuel business. We have already received an incentive of about INR 150 crores as a viability gap fund under the PM Jeevan Yojana for the proposed plant. Going forward, our fuel retail business, we have already set up about 7 outlets and another are nearing commissioning. But due to the concerns or rather the crude prices, the volatility in it, we are taking the further growth of outlets a little slow. That said, TruAlt Bioenergy in the ethanol business has completed all of its proposed CapEx. And all we got to do now is further increase our capacity utilization and better the margins so that there's good returns. With that, I ask our CFO, Anand Kishoreji, to take us through the.

Thank you, sir. Thank you for joining us for the Q2 and H1 FY '27 results discussion of TruAlt Bioenergy Limited. I will take you through the key financials and operational highlights for the quarter and for the year of FY '27. Let me come of the revenue performance. So our top line Q2 FY '27, our revenue from operations stood at INR 811 crores compared with INR 115 crores in Q2 of previous year. This represents a very strong year-on-year growth of approximately 606%. On a subsequential basis, revenue increased from INR 627 crores in Q1 FY '27 to INR 811 crores in Q2, reflecting a continued improvement in operating activity. For H1 FY'27 revenue from operation received at appoximately INR 1,438 crores compared with INR 419 crores in H1 of FY'26 representing a growth of around 243%. The substantial improvement reflects higher operating volume and improved utilization of our manufacturing capacity. On EBITDA performance, our EBITDA for Q2 FY'27 was approximately INR 114 crores translating into EBITDA margin of around 14.03%. In comparison, the company had reported a negative operating profit target in the corresponding year [indiscernible] quater of the previous year. For H1 FY '27 EBITDA stood at INR 261 crores with an EBITDA margin of approximately 18.2%. While the H1 margin remains healthy, the moderation in Q2 EBITDA margin compared with the first quarter is due to increase in the raw material prices during the quarter of [indiscernible] went up by 25% to 30%. Our focus remains on improving product mix, raw material efficiency, capacity utilization and operating leverage. Let me come to the profit. The profit before tax for Q2 FY '27 stood at approximately INR 47 crores compared with a loss before tax of INR 9 crores in the Q2 FY '26. This is a significant turnaround in profitability. Profit after tax for Q2 FY '27 was approximately INR 35 crores compared with a loss of approximately INR 38 crores in the corresponding period last year. For H1 FY '27, PAT stood at approximately INR 94 crores compared with a loss approximately INR 33 crores in H1 FY '26. The turn around in profitability demonstrate the operating leverage available in our business as [indiscernible] improves. On the cost structure front, we continue to focus solely on the raw material efficiency and cost optimization. Finance costs for finance cost for H1 FY '27 was approximately INR 87 core compared with the INR 76 crores in H1 of FY '20. The increase is primarily on function of funding structure with the scale of operations. Depreciation and amortization for H1 stood at approximately INR 49 crores. As our assets become increasingly productive, our focus is on ensuring that incremental revenues translate into a stronger cash condition and return on capital. Some of the important areas for us is a cash generation -- during H1 FY '27, the company generated approximately INR 192 crores of cash flow from operating activities. This is a positive indicator of underlying operating expense of the business. At the same time, we invested approximately INR 180 crores in the CapEx, including property, plant equipment and CVs. The investment is aligned with out our strategy of extending and expanding our operating platform. Coming to the balance sheet. As of 30 September 26, our total is cut INR [indiscernible] crores compared with INR 78 crores during March 26. Our debt-to-equity ratio is approximately 0.35x which continues to provide a reasonable capital sector for the scale of our operations. Importantly, we also see a meaningful reduction in certain working capital items. Inventory [indiscernible] approximately will be INR 28 crores, a INR 20 crore in September 26. Petite also reduced from approximately INR 406 crores to INR 367 crores. These movements are positive from a working capital perspective agreement and important focus is also management. During the first half, we continue to balance growth investment with financial discipline. We generated a strong operating cash flows, while continuing to invest in our capability and operating infrastructure. Our objective is to progressively improve cash conversion, reduce working capital intensity and optimize our borrowing profile. Looking ahead, we remain cautiously optimistic about the second half of FY '27. The fundamentals of the bioenergy and econo sector remain attractive, supported by India rev transition priorities with a lending initiatives and increasing emphasis on domestic renewable fuels. Our immediate practice has improved capital utilization, optimize feedstock and product mix, improved EBITDA margin [indiscernible] operating operating cash flows reduced working capital requirements and maintain disciplined capital allocation. We believe that our significant turnaround achieve in '27 provides a strong foundation for the past growth. To conclude, Q2 FY '21 has been a quarter of its strong revenue growth, a clear turnaround in the profitability and healthy operating cash editions. We are concerned that the next phase is not only about growing revenue, but also converting the growth into sustainable EBITDA with summer cash flows and improved return on capital. The management remains focused on profitable growth and strengthening the balance sheet while continue to build over into a stronger and more diversified bioenergy platform. With that, I would like to say with that, I would like to thank all our shareholders, lenders, business partners and employees for their continued confidence and support. I will now hand over the call for the question-and-answer session.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of [indiscernible] Patil from [indiscernible] Private Limited.

I have 2 questions. My first question to Mr. Nirani is. Following the massive to 243% revenue surge in H1, just want to understand what forward volume guidance can you share for the next 2 quarters as they build out [indiscernible] plant using the INR 150 crore PM Jeevan grant. What major equipment risk could delay commercial portion? And what is our forward strategy to secure a long term, understand your plan of action -- that's the first question. I'll let my second question after this.

Yes. Sure. With regards to the expected volume that we plan to supply for the current quarter, we -- like I said, we had an offer for almost allocation for about INR 24.5 crores from the [indiscernible]. And in addition to that, we talked about [indiscernible] added for the last on supply year. So in the current quarter of that last year's allocation, to supply year on from November to October, and half of this quarter that is October and November, will be supplying. And there is an extension already received. -- because 2 months of this current quarter, we will be supplying from the last internal supply year only. So we already have about 8.5 crore liters of orders still left to be supplied for the month of October and for the month of November. And we have required a raw material as well as the allocation to supply that. In addition to that, for the new ethanol supplier, we expect an allocation of at least about of INR 40 crores to INR 42 crore liters, that's the expectation is we'll have to see when we are trying for the build. And once the allocations are done, we will get to know the deal on at picture. But for the current quarter, I can tell you that we have in hand about 8.5 covers liters to supply, and there will be further addition that we will make.

My second question, interest insurance along the similar lines, with quarter 2 revenue hitting a record INR 811 crores, which is good. What is our forward CapEx and debt guidance for the next quarter. As we simultaneously scale our multi-location PBT project with GAIL what risk do you foresee to our working capital cycle? And what forward financial controls are in place to protect our cash flow. I just want to understand your point of view on.

So your first question was on line of the CapEx to be planned for the upcoming quarter. So we have already there will be no CapEx involved from the 11 the capital will be mental-health -- this CPG plant, we are expecting to comment in the next quarter, close to 3, 4 as of plan for this CapEx that will start on growing at least 4 to 5 in which will have a project cost of around INR 60 crores per plus, that was down to INR 300 crore and office are expecting this debt to be to the extent of anal to INR 80 crores as a daily tranche of the first disbursement from on the tenant side of outstanding along with the JV partner tea. That is the first question. please come back to the second question.

Yes. The second question was, as we filter multilocation GPG project, what this do you foresee to the working capital cycle -- and what forward financial goals are you seeing.

So because Taranto on the CBD front. So working capital, there is a hard requirement for a CV data you're working capital. The working capital is not going to impact much because in laser working capital with the are run through the customers or spend the plan. The permit cause hardly an a that is where this business CBD business, gross margin EBITDA, EBITDA margin of around [indiscernible]. So we have an existing plants also, we have looking at [indiscernible]. Even if it works out to be [indiscernible] by the end of the financial year, I assume there will be a maximum requirement of working capital [indiscernible] against which you will be getting a better revenue against the working capital. So the working capital will never be a challenge from that point of time. As far as the risk mutation is concerned as I expected. So -- the overall side, the risk mitigation will be second car by the CBG plans only because compared to CapEx the returns in this business is very high, which we are pro last previous quarter also. And going forward, the same tame will be maintained with the minimal working capital requirements, which we are doing there and also the amount of INR 80 crore to INR 100 creating which will be again subdued by the offer by we offer interest antiemetics which will be receiving from under the GOBARdhan. So today, for our all the plants, we are eligible for the capital certainty of INR 2 crores per CBG. So this is like reducing the debt of the company. And we are right now for 25% of these capital subsidies based on our content to operate [indiscernible] so all those things can be entirely subdued by way of a capital subvention and the profit to be in late on this business.

Next question is from the line [indiscernible] Capital.

Couple of questions, firstly what's the ethanol volume this quarter?

So for this quarter, you want to say for H1 FY '27, we have sold the total volume of ethanol that we have sold is close to Q1, we have sold 8.29 core and! Q2 we have sold 10.78 crores, so for the entire H1 we have sold 19.07 crores liters of ethanol. And again, for this, we have had [indiscernible]. We are already are pending orders to discourage close to 8.5 crores liter other than the fresh location, which we are about to receive.

Right. Okay. Fair enough. Sir, also just as you mentioned that you're seeing a lot of raw material pressure. But moving forward, because the government is base sugar cane to only be able to pass on this cost in terms of higher prices as less. Just wanted to understand how our contracts are -- is there any way for us to pass on this increase in raw material and protect our margin.

So even though you say the ban is let me come to the point where sugar prices in the market is INR 50, INR 48 or INR 52. Be it be any sugar player even though also even though it could have been banned, they would have referred to serious our rather than diverting it to the industry because the profit margin will be -- they will be getting a [indiscernible] better than that year, right? So as far as for us as to make a ratal on the cost business more margin is to use a better product mix and higher of the cat utilization. So we have a plan where we are trying to store base and is at the lowest profit price and accumulating at the various locations by storing a concept and slowing kind of operate for that even though during this quarter in the [indiscernible] got the pickup in the price, we'll be able to maintain the maximum EBITDA margin at least [indiscernible] the present level what we have maintained.

So this margin that was done for ethanol this quarter is going to be the base. It should only increase up from here on.

Increase from hereon, Usually, Q2 is the most difficult period because if that's when summer is over and there's not much of raw material agrarian products available. So whatever in Q2, whenever each of the years will have the lowest margins. It should improve from Q3, Q4 onwards.

So on average for this year, what on a margin should we expect for the ethanol business.

I'm not be able to give you an absolute number, but once the tenders are located, we might expect maybe a 1% or 2% drop in the EBITDA margins of the average that we've been doing so far.

Okay. Okay. And sir, on the CBD side, I just wanted to understand the other 2 plants that is going to position by end of Q3 or be on track. And so this year, I think for this quarter, I think -- last year, we received some subsidy, so what was the amount that quarter? And what was the subsidiary amount that you were supposed to see for this quarter?

Anand, do you want to take that.

Yes. Subsidy about the CBG front, we are commencing 3 plants of TruAlt [indiscernible] Gas Private Limited and JV with [indiscernible]. So these 3 plants will go around -- these 3 plants [indiscernible]. So the subsidy eligible is INR 2 crore per [indiscernible], so [indiscernible] INR 120 crores. So of INR 120 crores, we are -- right now, eligible for INR 20 crores to INR 25 crores of subsidy out of this based on our [indiscernible]. So for the quarter or even say there matting of another -- for the next quarter first or second months -- we are definitely getting -- expecting a 25 to 25% of your can mark out to close to INR 30 crores of subsidiaries we are expecting by December or January.

Okay. And so the 1 plant with a commission with 20 PPD, how is the ramp up of that going? What sort of utilization have we targeted for this year. And for the other 2, I'll be commenting what utilization should we look at for this year?

So that will add to the -- so you can take it in fact, the full sale revenue from the month of January. So that will add 1 quarter of revenue. So 1 quarter of revenue presently if you see our existing plan that comes around INR 10 crores. So even INR 10 crores 1 quarter, so if you eco exist in 1 plant and adding also other 2 plants for the part period will add another revenue of INR 10 crores because that is also picking up. So we believe that figure of CPG segment and revenue will be coming from these 2 to 3 plans during the financial year. Coming to the next [indiscernible].

Okay. Okay. And sir, for the 15 crores, out of that 10 crores already, what is the update on the rest 5 crores order? When are we expecting that allocation to asset -- any sort of color on that.

Like I said, we have received the location already, no. There's clarity on it. Yes, yes.

The next question is from the line of Prathamesh Sawant from Abacus Investment Managers.

Yes. good afternoon. So just -- 2 small questions from my end. So in the current quarter, we have built up for any inventory for the Q3 orders that we have. So is there any raw material inventory buildup in Q2.

Yes, sir. Thank you for the question. We do -- we have a visibility already. So for that 8.5 crore liters, we already have the required raw material tied up. And because the raw material was purchased during quarter 2 and the order also was received only in the month of August, the cost of the raw material was at a higher side. So the margin will be a little lower, but we already have the visibility on the raw material -- the raw material tied up.

Okay. So the effective Q2 margin should be slightly upwards of 12%, what is it because that has some element of the raw material prices also into this.

You mean in Q3, sir?

Q2, we had the impact of definitely the increase in the price of raw material picked up by 25% close to in the terms of [indiscernible]. Although this was this was a season for the industry also because there is hardly a supply of the raw material during the quarter. Again, Q3 and Q4 is a seasonal basis where this again, the EBITDA margin will bounce back to level.

Okay. And so volume-wise, we can go north of the current Q2 quarter because we already have like INR 8 crore commitments plus probably the next ethanol supply is INR 40 crores, also some elements could become in the November or December end. So can we see volume up price on the current quarter numbers as well...

Yes, since we have 8.5 crore liters of water, we expect at least about 6 to 7 crore liters of additional volume that in the month of -- we will have November and December alone, right, for the current quarter. So we expect a few more crore liters to get added, but that will depend based on the location that we receive. There will be a growth is the expectation.

Okay. Fair enough. And lastly, sir, on the El Nino front. So we have been hearing that the southern part of the country will be affected with the El Nino more. So where is our raw material procurement coming from? And do you see any risk built into this where the prices of raw materials stay elevated for the next entire financial year...

Yes, sir. So there is a huge drop in the acreage of cultivation of major food crops that is maize, rice as well as sugarcane, which is why you've been seeing there's a big rally in the price of all these commodities. The year net, there is an expected drop of about 35% in maize availability and rice there's an expected drop of about 10% to 12%. And sugarcane, there's a drop of about 10% to 12% again. So that will squeeze the margins a little because the price of raw material will increase. That's thanks to the support of all the shareholders, we could convert 3 of our plants into grain-based, which can take multiple feedstock and also have the working capital limits now. We will be sourcing raw material from across the country, that's Bihar or Madhya Pradesh is a big place. Punjab is a big place for us to raw material. We've already started sourcing warehouses and stocking up the raw material required.

Next question is from the line of Udit Sehgal from PinPoint X Capital.

Congratulations for a good result. Sir, firstly, I wanted to know there have been some notifications regarding the pledging of shares and the intent of the promoters to increase the stake. So what exactly is the intent and till what percentage are we planning to add.

So legally, we are allowed to go up to 75%, sir. The idea was to try and increase it our holding as much as possible. But we are almost at about 71% now, and we have a margin of about another 3.5% to 4%. So we hope eventually we keep continuing to build the holding.

So the current pledges where the notification have come, they have been used for the past purchases or they are going to be used for the future purchases...

For the future purchases?

For the future purchases. Okay. Got it. Secondly, sir, on the CBG front, could you like kind of educate us on what the changes have been from the previous policy, how the margins or the subsidy has gone up? Because we saw in the private market like companies like Gruner, they are getting like a valuation of, say, $5 billion, and they're building out 1,000 TPD. So what exactly are we planning to do? Like what are our plans for the midterm and long term since the government has given such a big push into CBG.

Yes. So CBG is going to be a big growth opportunity for the entire country. So the new policy that's GOBARdhan 2.0, there is a huge amount of changes that has already come in. To name a few, one, the capital incentives or the subsidy that is available per metric ton, earlier, there was a cap of about INR 10 crores per project and the subsidy was somewhere about -- for 10 TPD plant, it used to be at about INR 8 crores to INR 10 crores. Now the subsidy has increased from INR 1 crore per tonne to almost 2 crores per tonne double. And there is a cap of about INR 30 crores per plant, not per company, per plant. So let's say, for a 10 TPD plant now instead of having a INR 10 crore subsidy as earlier, now we'll have INR 20 crores of capital subsidy. Along with that, the price of gas is now assured for another 10 years. There is an assurance on offtakes. There is a take-or-pay clause already that's coming, which is favorable to the producers. So 90% of whatever we produce, there is a condition that the OMCs will have to buy. And for the obligation on the supplier that is us, we will have at least 50% should be offered. So which is a very good thing that has come in -- along with that, the price of the gas has also increased from INR 84 a kilo to now it has gone up to about INR 104 a kilo. And also if the purity is higher, we can get a price of as high as about INR 116 to INR 120 a kilo. And along with that, there are the sector classified as a priority sector now for MSMEs, there is the government guarantee for loans and things like those. So overall, there is a huge push for the CBG sector, and we hope to take as much as benefits that we can.

Okay. So do we plan to -- I think our initial build-out is for some plants with GAIL and Sumitomo. I think it totals up to almost 250 TPD, if I'm not wrong.

Yes, sir. In entire it would be.

Okay. So any plans to go further on that? Like we see there's so much scope -- I mean, from our calculations, I think in the next 3 to 4 years, maybe the country may be acquiring almost 1 lakh of TPD. So I mean, what would be our plans? What kind of market share could we get?

Yes. So right now, we have visibility on these 250 metric tons. Beyond that, of course, we have expectation to keep building, but 250 is almost about 20, 24 plants, right? There is still a lot of work to do. And we have only now commissioned about 4 plants commissioning. And this plant will begin construction. So over the next 2 years, we will see a lot of investments in the sector.

Okay, sir. Got it. And sir, on the ethanol front, I'm a bit confused with the government policy. Say, they were not getting ethanol from -- or I mean there's a shortage of sugar, so they didn't want the sugar to be diverted to ethanol. So logically, shouldn't have they given more incentives for the maize producers to give more volumes like [indiscernible],

Should have definitely done that considering the prices that has increased, they should have increased the price of maize-based ethanol, but in fact, they've reduced the price by almost INR 3 a liter. We don't see the logic in it, but it is what it is now.

So will they be able to still get the full implication? I mean wouldn't the maize ethanol producers be protested or whatever, I mean, looking at the scenario?

We've already -- the industry has already raised concerns on the same subject, and we have reached out to the policymakers and the oil marketing companies. We hope that there is some kind of a reversion in the prices to support. I'm not sure as of now what people are thinking, but -- we expect that there could be some correction.

Next question is from the line of [indiscernible] Investments.

So my first question is regarding the ethanol, what is the realization currently? And just wanted to understand because we went into -- you have be grain-based raw material procurement that we can [indiscernible], right? That would be thought process. But in the current quarter, we've seen 18 quickly rising to 25. So at least if you can give a flavor on the RM, how will it pan over the years, if you can give border perpective, that [indiscernible].

The whole objective dual feed is that to have the flexibility of different kinds of feedstock. And we know that in different years, there will be different availability on the raw material side. So one, achieving flexibility, we've already seen that. And also, if you look at historic cycles, there has always been a drought-like situation once in every 5 years. And we see the impact now for the El Nino. And the current year, there is a shortage in the availability of raw materials that I just explained earlier also. But going forward, that should correct itself, and we will come back to normalcy. But in years like these, we expect better prices so that our margins can improve. That's the expectation from the government. But otherwise, from the company and from the management side, what we expect to do is stock of raw material at the available cheapest price so that further crunch in the raw material or rather the cost of production is streamlined to the best effect.

Got that, sir, what could be the average realization for ethanol combined and for maize combined in your experience, what could be the average realization? And similarly on the raw material side, the key raw materials, blended average realization. Just to understand what would be the EBITDA per kg or per liter fluctuation just to get that understanding.

So if I were to take a guess, of course, this is subject to the allocation -- but if I were to take a guess, the average realization this year, let's say, maize-based ethanol is at around INR 68-odd a liter. And also there's a ban on sugarcane juice and [indiscernible] molasses. So ethanol derived from diamond full trains is at about INR 64 and from rice is about INR 60. So I expect an average blended rate of about INR 64 to INR 65 from the past year, which was at about INR 67. So that's about a dip of INR 3 a liter. However, the price of DDGS, which is a byproduct of grain-based ethanol has increased. And we are looking at an average price of about INR 28 to INR 30 in the past month, and we expect the prices to continue to be higher going forward.

What would be the total cost per kg or at least if you can provide that there are a lot of variations. So in your experience, not to hold you for that, but at least an average. And going forward also, what would be your expectation?

Right, sir. In the past, we were hovering at around 62% to 66%, somewhere between that was the RM contribution. But going forward, I may not be able to give you the right thing, but it will be 70% is what we expect.

And that would be the peak levels, right? You don't expect it to go beyond that.

We hope for that, sir. Again, it depends on the availability. But also considering the cost of carry and should be somewhere around that number..

Sir, my second question is regarding how do you intend to repay the amount? What are the sources of funds that we have in personal capacity? Yes, please if you can just explain that as well?

That's for the company right now. But as management, we've got different sources of capital. So it's irrelevant for now.

Okay. That is not an issue, right? And what is the haircut price, if at all that you would have raised the money at?

A personal loan that I've taken, but that shouldn't bother or shouldn't affect the company by any means.