TUI AG (TUI1) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary
May 13, 2020
Earnings Call Speaker Segments
Operator
operatorGood morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the TUI AG Conference Call COVID-19 Update and FY '20 H1 Results. [Operator Instructions] Let me now turn the floor over to your host, Friedrich Joussen and Birgit Conix.
Friedrich Joussen
executiveSo thank you very much. Good morning, everybody. I hope you are well and healthy. This is important in these times. Thank you very much for joining in the Q1 -- Q2 results call, and I'm not a 100% sure that I understand who turns the pages. Are we turning the pages? Okay. Good. So we will be actually now turning to Page #4, please. Undoubtedly, COVID-19 is the greatest crisis for tourism and TUI which has ever happened. And we were just in Q1 in full steam ahead. As you know, we -- in January was the best booking month in the year, up 14%, customers; 17% revenues for summer bookings. And then suddenly, mid-end March, stop, no revenue. I mean, this is unprecedented. And I think no revenue until today, it's an interesting experience also for myself to run a company without revenue. We managed to secure liquidity very fast, you will see that in the slide, and reduce fixed cost. Also, we are thinking about the time after the crisis. We will be a company with more debt and also for -- significantly more debt and also a company with a little bit of uncertainty, we believe, on next year. The revenue might be -- or the demand might be on the levels of '19, but it might also not be on the levels, depending on the vaccine, depending on the perception, whatnot. We believe in 2022, we will have full demand and strong growth. We see traffic on our web pages, we see bookings, and I'll come to that in a minute, are very slow. So demand is there, but the crisis, the pandemic is not overcome. Now that's the reason why we said we need to be significantly changing our company. More lean, more agile, less capital, less investment and much more digital. We said we want to become a digital platform company anyway. And therefore, we have launched a program to save 30% of overheads. That will affect 8,000 roles. We launched the program in the company. We announced it this morning, and it's now progressing. And it will touch all parts of the business, but mainly markets and airlines as 80% of our overheads are actually in this area. Now, people continue to have a passion for holidays, and we are a very trusted brand with a long history. Therefore, there's no reason to assume that the market will be not there, that we will not have a prosperous market environment. I mean, that's very important because, without a market, everything would be very gloomy. Now this -- the market, I think, it's more a matter of time until we come back. Definitely, safety of our customers, employees are our main priorities. So we are very open to prepare for a responsible restart. We want to restart. We can see the demand, but we only can start and want to start when it is safe. Now turning to Page #5. What has happened? And as I said, when you turn to the -- when you watch the dark blue boxes at the bottom, we had an exceptional start in the summer, the strongest January in company history. So after the Thomas Cook collapse as well, it seemed to be an enormous record year. But then the COVID incident happened, actually not the COVID itself, that is something which started in China last quarter, but all borders closed, travel warning and all -- into all countries, no business within a couple of days. Liquidity squeeze by cost running, we could save money, and we will see that and also prepayments flowing out of the system. The positive working capital actually going back to customers. At least partly, we find solutions in order to mitigate, but at least partly. That is actually very special in our industry. So we reduced costs, and we acquired the liquidity and that is actually the KfW loan, you will see that in a minute, we talked about it. And the loan facility in the frame of our current RCF, it's actually a bridge loan of EUR 1.8 billion which is due in 2022. Birgit will talk about it in a minute. And now what we are doing is actually we are preparing for an integrated startup of our summer holidays. We have travel warnings largely in the countries until mid of June. There are strong indications that at least partly the destinations will open. And also, that actually source markets will be sending -- allowing us to send customers. We believe it could be in the order of magnitude late June and early July that we actually can resume business partially into areas which are safe and where we tested. We did the first test of our hotels, right now test runs in Majorca, they were very successful and travel and leisure travel can be safe. The second thing, as I said, is our restructuring, digitalization, realignment, restructuring program, which we have launched, which should give us a cost base advantage of 30% overhead. This is in the order of magnitude EUR 300 million, EUR 400 million yearly benefit, and that is something which should be achievable. We have identified the ballparks of our program, I'll come to that in a minute. Now could we have known better? That's the question. Why is so hectic? Why is actually -- we have the suspension of all travel, and suddenly, we need money and the RCF is partly not released, and then we go to KfW when we have all this turmoil, and then we need to be so under time pressure, could have been -- could we have seen it earlier. And I think the time line here shows, it would have been difficult to digest. I mean the China COVID was end of December, we had 13% up in booking. Then we had the financial year '20 Q1 results, 11th of February, we were up 14%. Again, revenue was 17% because prices were up 3%. So there's not an indication. Italy, that is actually North of Italy, we saw a little bit, 21st of Feb, but it's still 12% up and still 37,000 customers per day net growth. Even a week later, Tenerife closing this -- with the hotel you remember that still 28,000 net growth. By the way, this even is seasonality because we have that -- the first week in February is stronger than the second is stronger than the third. So we saw [ stronger ] stuff. And then we see the more or less the 13th to the 16th, that actually it all collapsed, and that's actually the ports closed. The borders closed within 3 days. That was the Friday and Saturday and Sunday, we came together as a team and actually said, "Okay, that's it. Let's see to it how we secure liquidity." And you see that this is actually a very, very immediate situation. And I think also unprecedented in the timing of the events. Now how do we see the situation and the suspensions. And on the next slide, I have put the stuff on. Largely until mid-June, we see those suspensions. Now at least in Germany, I can say, and I'm talking to the officials here a lot, there's an enormous pressure of opening borders. I mean, people don't accept that Europe is closed. And you have that in the neighboring countries, to France and to Switzerland and to Austria, but also to Denmark up in the north, there was even a legal case, which was won by customers, who said, "I want to travel to Denmark." And the court said you cannot suspend it as it's not reasonable. It needs to be adequate and reasonable. And we, I think, can prove now that we have actually prepared our travels in a way that it is safe. Now we also don't start from 0. For the summer season '20, we still have a booking level of 35%. Normal would be 59%. Now 59% is much better than 35%, but 35% is much better than nothing. So if we can reinvigorate the travel, and if we said, for example, just Majorca was possible, we would actually start rebooking customers from other places to Majorca, fill our planes and fly. As I said, we have done good testing and certification of our hotels in Majorca. So for example, that shouldn't be a problem. The same holds true for Greece, for Cyprus, for Croatia, for Bulgaria, for the Canaries. I mean, all of them have one thing in common, they don't have COVID infections. So that's not a -- it's not a good reason to assume that travel to there shouldn't be possible or shouldn't be safe. For winter, we opened the first and winter was actually in the U.K., we have now 8% up in volume and the average sales price on last year's level. So also last year was good in terms of the winter bookings. So no reason to assume it will be weak. And summer is the most promising thing. I mean, what's interesting and promising, I think, we have double -- more than double the volume we would expect. So more than double the volume of last year for this year. So it's small volumes, it's a couple of hundred thousands, but it shows that there will be catch-up effect. And at least from now, we cannot see that actually volumes will not be there. Prices are a little bit weaker than this year, but that's, again, very early days, and it's also related to partly discounts we give in order for early bookings in order to fill next year, but I would say, a very healthy situation for the future. And that indicates to me as soon as travel will be possible, customers will want to go. That said, we need to be making sure that actually we can provide safe and nonrisk travel that will be top of mind of our customers as well, and I come to that in a moment, how we do it, what we do. But before that, I hand over for a session of Birgit to actually take you through the financial impact as well as what we did in terms of cost and also the KfW facility.
Birgit Conix
executiveThank you, Fritz, and a warm welcome also from my side, and I hope you are all healthy and safe. So on the first slide that I'm going to present on the COVID-19 financial impact. As you know, our business is seasonal with a corresponding very seasonal liquidity stream. And COVID-19 led to an immediate cease of global travel operations which led to an immediate liquidity need due to the customer refunds and the coverage of fixed costs, as you all well know. And as you can see from this illustrative graph on the left-hand side, at the end of March, we usually have quite high customer deposits on our balance sheet with a further steep increase during Q3. And it is -- and you know that we call as a typical seasonal tourism swing. And the suspension of all operations as of March 16 led to the fact that the positive seasonal swing did not materialize and moreover customers could request cash refunds for canceled holidays. So at the end of March, we had EUR 3.4 billion of customer deposits on our balance sheet and this situation led to an immediate liquidity need due to the typical working capital pattern as well as a fixed cost coverage against a standstill on our revenue. And to address the liquidity needs due to this working capital pattern, we took immediate action and secured the KfW bridge loan in a record time, and we also initiated other mitigating actions. Apart from, of course, the drastic cost reductions, we -- there were other mitigating actions like incentivizing customers to rebook to a later date. We opened for summer season 2021 much earlier than we usually do. And we worked with various European governments on a voucher refund mechanism to save liquidity in this crisis situation. And the current trend is that between 50% and 40% of customers are seeking a voucher credit or decide for a rebooking, which we consider a success and demonstrate that people are willing to go on travel with TUI as a trusted brand. Based on the current scenario, we estimate customer refunds per month to be estimated at a low to mid-single-digit EUR 100 million. And when travel resumes and that is what we tried to illustratively show because we do not have a date yet, we expect to see a recovery of working capital, and that is represented by these light blue dotted lines and their value, and this is a data point, obviously, that we do not have at the moment. So then moving to the next slide, please. Thank you. So during the suspension of all operations, we undertook significant pricing measured to limit cash outflows through an extreme reduction of costs and expenditures to an absolute minimum. From capital expenditures to marketing, salary costs, accommodation, rental and lease costs, all expenditures have been cut, of course, reflecting our strict cost discipline required during these very exceptional circumstances. So this has been a top priority for the business as a whole, so everybody was focused on that. And the overall fixed monthly cash cost base has been substantially reduced by around 70% on how we calculate fixed cost. And let me explain that, so advanced contracting to secure committed capacity for the seasons ahead is the base of our business, and thus, we typically see a high level of operational leverage. And in a normal year, circa 63% of our cash costs across the business are deemed to be fixed. So this translates in a normal year into a cash outflow in a range between EUR 700 million to EUR 1.4 billion per month. And of course, the latter during the peak season. We reduced this range substantially during the COVID-19 crisis, and we managed to reduce costs to an absolute minimum and expect our cash fixed cost base to be reduced to a minimum range of between EUR 250 million to EUR 300 million per month as long as our operations are suspended. Please note that this number excludes cost of payment obligations below EBIT for which an average run rate of circa EUR 50 million per month can be assumed. The largest cost base for the group is accommodation where we invoked the force majeure clause on hotel contracts. Incremental aircraft leases have been renegotiated with our lessors as has our rental lease agreements payments with landlords in our hotels and resorts business. Cruise ships have been laid off, saving around 60% of monthly cost, and we took the difficult but necessary decision to reduce staff costs worldwide from April onwards. So a short-time work, take a furlough unpaid leave or other staff cost-saving measures were applied across the group, whereas our business was and, of course, still is at a general pause. We have participated in government job retention schemes where available. And these substantial measures across the business have helped to deliver a 50% cost saving in salary costs in May with 90% of our employees participating in the above measures. So let's go to the next slide. TUI was the first company to, and Fritz already said it, to successfully obtain a KfW bridge loan as we applied immediately after the announcement of the program by the German state. And we received the approval for EUR 1.8 billion KfW bridge loan facility just 10 days post application. And we were able to apply with this level of speed as we had our financial scenarios proactively ready and could present a comprehensive liquidity picture during the weekend of 14th and 15th of March, which now seems a long time ago. We presented an exhaustive scenario analysis of the situation and the financial requirements, including a solid repayment plan under the agreed scenario. During the whole process, we were supported by our existing banking consortium, and I would like to thank all parties involved for this extraordinary and joint achievement. The EUR 1.8 billion support is an extension to the existing EUR 1.75 billion revolving credit facility, and you can see the details of both facilities on the right-hand side here of the slide. As already announced in our ad-hoc statements, under the terms of the loan the annual dividend will be suspended during the course of this credit line. And both covenants' net leverage ratio and interest cover relating to the existing and also increased RCF will be suspended for the next 18 months. So covenant testing will resume in September 2021. And finally, at this point in time, we have cash and available facilities of EUR 2.1 billion, and this is a reduction of EUR 1 billion since our last announcement which we did on the 27th of March as we needed to cover cash out for fixed costs, a certain amount of customer refunds and repayments as scheduled for financial maturities in the amount of EUR 450 million over the [ long term ]. So then moving to the next slide. As I mentioned earlier, we worked on liquidity enhancing measures, such as the earlier discussed fixed cost reduction and also the mix of voucher refund credit mechanism that we easily worked on other levers, and that's what you see here. So we immediately suspended investments and reduced our CapEx cash out. And we already discussed earlier that TUI would be more rigorous with CapEx going forward, and we are taking this very serious. You know that also from all of our last conversations. So we will reduce our investment with 50% to a level of maximum EUR 450 million this year from our earlier guidance range of EUR 750 million to EUR 900 million prior to the Hapag-Lloyd transaction. We expect some tax relief due to acceleration of refunds and deferral of payments and here also the partners are actually very supporting. The Hapag-Lloyd Cruises transaction will lead to a cash inflow of approximately EUR 600 million, as you know, and we will reduce the capital intensity of the business, including the sale and leaseback of assets. When the business restarts, we will see a significant working capital inflow, and that is very important to note throughout this cycle. And all these measures will contribute to the improvement of our financial profile going forward and with cash and available facilities as well as the liquidity enhancing measures, TUI has sufficient funds to cover the coming months. But of course, we remain proactive. As you have seen from the KfW bridge loan application and our fastest wins, we are equally proactive at this very moment. And we are currently evaluating a variety of options with the aim to best position TUI's balance sheet and liquidity through an extended period of disruption and post crisis. One thing is sure. We are strongly focused on rebuilding our solid balance sheet profile post crisis. And as I also said earlier, a prominent driver is the restart of our operations with a recovery in bookings, resulting in an immediate and substantial working capital inflow. So let me with this hand back over to Fritz now.
Friedrich Joussen
executiveBirgit, thank you very much. You see we have secured liquidity. We have a solid situation in terms of cost, things are in control. We are managing also liquidity outflow to customers on a daily basis. Now is the question what do we do next, right? And the one thing we are doing is, of course, we are trying to find ways in order to allow revenue in, again, because on a dominant basis, loans and bridge loans and debt doesn't replace revenues. And therefore, this is the utmost important. And we have, as I said, have good booking status. Still we have good forward bookings in next season. The question is when can we start. And here, we have worked on a 10-point plan together with actually all partners who have similar low COVID-19 infection levels or even lower, and I talk about Canaries, Balearics, Greece, Cyprus, Croatia and others. I think travel to these countries would be possible if allowed. I think demand would be high. I think we have a program in place, I'll come to that on the next page, which actually allows for safe travels. It's important to our customers. Equally, it's important for customers to travel. In the public, I see pressure building because there's not a good reason to close borders. And as I said, even the first court has ruled that closing borders is not appropriate. So -- and the destination, also, is very important, customers wanted destinations, wanted destinations, in many cases, tourism is the most important economic sector. In Greece, for example, 20% of GDP or 18% of GDP, of course, in summer, double because it's only half year season. So I'm not missing that summer is a huge issue for Europe as well. And I hear and I see that actually that is taking ground. And therefore, I'm quite hopeful that in June or beginning of July, we will be able to resume business. And we are prepared. That's what we say. As you see on the next page, the level of detail we have, this is actually the -- at holiday 2020, secure, safe travel during COVID-19. It is actually touching all touchpoints, addressing all touchpoints of our customer: flight and destination, hotels, cruises. It's exactly what we do. And we are even designing holidays for safe travel. For example, we have put our ships to -- cruise ships to actually northern Germany as soon as possible. We're offering 3 to 5 days cruises. So the North Sea is anyway very popular. There's 1,000 guests, 1,000 guests are the limit, which the German government has anyway agreed that 1,000 in a certain destination is possible. So we are even preparing designed holidays in order to be attractive. So it's not in our hand to open the holidays, but it is in our hand to be prepared. And together with our partners and destinations, we have now the program, and we are now negotiating thoroughly. Now this is actually #1 priority because it resolves a lot of problems. It resolves the problem of revenue, particularly, it also resolves the problem of liquidity because as soon as we open our business again, there will be liquidity inflow for positive working capital. By the way, even having closed summer and only for winter and next year summer, we have EUR 50 million inflows already today per month. So it's something as soon as the markets open, liquidity, I would assume, is not the issue. Now anyway, what will remain an issue is debt because we will have debt and the first thing that remains to be seen how much of the credit facilities we will be using. But debt will be an issue. And it needs to be repaid, that is very clear. And therefore, we have now put this three-pronged plan for the future of TUI. The first one is actually reducing costs. And how we do that is we accelerate the transformation project we have been planning anyway. We are more ruthless in merging tasks and organizations across the group and consolidate global IT structures. So it's not just taking off people and assuming it will be working. It is the challenge of reducing people and increasing quality. And one of the things, just to give you an illustrative example, we have 25 call centers in the world with EUR 100 million of cost. So it's not a good reason to assume that this is optimal. Quite to the contrary, if we wanted to outsource it to a third party, we could save tens of millions per year immediately. But of course, it's close to the customer, and we need to be careful. But it shows what kind of potentials are still untapped. And I have launched the program together with the colleagues this morning, 30% cost reduction in the order of magnitude EUR 300 million to EUR 400 million yearly cost benefits will affect 8,000 people. So this is, I would say, bread and butter. I mean, this is nothing to discuss about, it's just execute. I mean, it's not a risk that it will not happen or whatever. I mean this is relatively easy. So let me get into the middle column. In the middle column, we have historically or historically in the last phase of transformation, became product-centric. We invested more into cruise ships, into aircraft, into renewal of aircraft, into hotels. This is over. This is over. And for 2 reasons, actually for 3 reasons, if you like. The first one is that we have debt and the money is not easily available. The second is we have an oversupply, and we will have an oversupply foreseeable in the next year. And when you have oversupply of assets, investment into assets is not very good. So if you have undersupply, then you have good yields. If you have oversupply, you have better trade. So we will be more asset light, and we will be using many means, off balance sheet structures, selling and leasing back or managing back hotel assets looking at the structure of our airline size as well as ownership structures in terms of aviation. And also we will actually look at the clear fixing and divestment of nonprofitable businesses. So this is a little bit more. I mean, in the past, it could be we have been maybe not as strict as we could have been, but I'll tell you, now it will be either you fix it immediately or it will be a difficult time. So this is a little bit more, how do you say, it is more a strategic move. I want to finish -- I want to say 1 thing. This doesn't mean we will not content -- be content-centric, right? We just will not do bricks and mortars, right? So content-centric means control of product, control of brand, control of distribution, control of customers. This will stick. Differentiation, this will stick. What will not stick is actually investment into bricks because if you have oversupply in bricks, earning money from bricks will be not that easy. We stay asset-light because selectively, we might be wanting to own bricks still. Cape Verde is a typical example. When you have 100% of 5-Star hotels or what, I mean, then it's difficult not to own the bricks. But other than that, we will be seeing that we actually get assets that are more asset-light, much more asset-light than we are today. And I could do the same thing with ships. We talked about Marella anyway. We showed what we did with Hapag-Lloyd Cruises, a deal which we'll be closing in June, by the way. So I mean, it is what we will do. The third reason -- the first reason was debt. The second reason was actually overcapacity because of uncertain demand. The third reason is on the right side, when you want to become a digital platform company, that's what we said, articulated before, assets don't fit. And so as we accelerate our journey now to become more digital. We actually -- will actually -- we can directly, we can invest less. What does it mean more digital and online strategy? People have been using online purchase means in the crisis when they had to stay home. Will they shift back? Maybe not. People are okay with using online services in destinations. We see that we have actually accelerated our online strategy there. So all touchpoints across the value chain. And the last thing, which is actually the first bullet on this right column, is that we increase accommodation-only, flight-only and dynamic packaging. When you have an oversupply, this kind of pre-available goods, which are also shorter booking cycles, will be important. We have good experience in our GDN. So we have very good experience in our overland business in Germany, where we have 1 million customers. So we will actually accelerate our economy. Flight only, we have also good experience with third-party flying, offering our flights to third-party customers. We have good experience as well. We will have another P&L fostering it, and we will actually also think about the future of package, and this future of package needs to be more flexible, more dynamic, more customer friendly, and all of that is the digital backbone of our systems, as we have announced them anyway. The difference is we execute faster and more euro for legacy IT structure. And that is actually 100% focused to the future, 0 focus for legacy. That is the difference. With that said, I would actually come through the half year results and you see that on the Page, 5 months, we're still okay, not only okay, it was good, plus 6% revenue, plus 21% EBIT. And then more or less, everything stopped in March, and that's what you see. And maybe when we go to the bridge next slide, you see a lot of moving parts back and forth. The only big thing, which I want to highlight are the minus EUR 470 million on the right side. And the blue box explains what it is. The minus EUR 470 million is mainly loss of contribution, EUR 242 million. This is actually the missing business. There is no business, no contribution, okay? You should be seeing this repeating over the next months. A little bit less because we have been saving costs. At the same time, volumes are a little bit bigger. So we always said, our costs are around about of EUR 250 million or whatever, and this is the EUR 250 million, right? So that is the missing contribution. This is actually what will be repeating. Then you see a second -- so but why do we not see the EUR 470 million for the next month is, because you see, for example, hedge ineffectiveness. That is actually we bought, of course, for the travel we sold, we bought fuel future. So hedges for our fuel for $60 per barrel. And now it's $30 and of course this needs to be accounted for, and that's what you see here. The EUR 146 million are actually taking care of the ineffective hedges until June. And therefore, it will not repeat. And also it might even reverse a little bit if the oil price comes up or whatever, but the big step, the big -- let's say, the big step is done here. And that's part of the EUR 470 million. And then you see smaller numbers. Repatriation costs, of course, will not repeat. The celebration impairment, so we drydocked the ship -- I would say, we took the ship out of the water because there will not be any business anymore, EUR 19 million. But this, of course, book, then you have the MAX costs are very minor because they don't fly and will not repeat because particularly when they don't fly, there will be 0. So therefore, more or less what you can say, it's EUR 240 million, will repeat in some form or shape, EUR 146 million will not repeat in some form or shape. And that's a pretty good indication, I think, for the future months if you don't take into account the payouts to customers. Payouts to customers are difficult to judge. In some of the countries, we have the vouchers, in some of the countries, we don't have the vouchers. Even if you don't have the vouchers, in some countries, you have state guarantees. In some countries, you don't have state guarantees. This makes a huge difference. Also what makes a big difference is if the ministry say there will be no summer vacation or if they say there will be summer vacation because if you can redeem the voucher soon, everybody accepts the voucher soon. So Birgit talked about it, it will be something low to mid-hundreds millions. But as we said, it's just working capital. So as soon as the business comes back and even if it comes back -- something comes back, now as it didn't come -- or it doesn't come back for summer at all, we still have EUR 50 million inflows. So you can imagine what happens if the business for the summer at some form or shape will be resuming. Now that said, we have a couple of more slides. This is actually one more slide. And I thought we had also another waterfall, but this is more or less what I explained, the EUR 470 million. Now you see a little bit of segmental reports in all fairness. I will not review -- it's meaningless. I mean, if you have -- at a time like this, who takes care of what or who cares about these numbers. The numbers are actually distorted as you can see everywhere because you had months of no operation. And that actually is not very meaningful. If you have questions, we are very willing to answer them in a later stage of the conversation. With that, Birgit, I think you would like to -- you will take the people through the P&L, right?
Birgit Conix
executiveYes. So let's then go through the income statement. As here I did -- during the first quarter as well, I will focus on the year-on-year comparison with pro forma IAS 17 figures for the first half is because the IFRS 16 numbers for comparability purposes. So here, you can see, obviously, the turnover year-on-year was flat, reflecting the lost revenue from the travel suspension in March and the underlying EBIT decreased by EUR 527 million, mainly as a result of lost contribution and costs arising from the COVID-19 travel suspension, and Fritz just talked about that. The adjustments are significantly better year-on-year as we booked EUR 91 million gain on disposal from the sale of our German specialist businesses, Berge & Meer and Boomerang, which closed in October 2019. As a result of the positive adjustments, reported EBIT is down by EUR 432 million compared to last year. And group results after minorities are down by EUR 505 million, translating to an underlying EPS of minus EUR 1.31. Referring to the reported figures under IFRS 16 and as flagged during our IFRS 16 call in December last year, both depreciation and interest charges are higher as a result of IFRS 16. Okay. So then we move to the cash flow slide. And as you know, before the COVID-19 crisis, we launched a dedicated program on cash flow with a target to generate positive free cash flows for dividends, and we were very well on the way to deliver. And you can still see the impact in the first half of 2020. Unfortunately, now due to COVID-19, the situation will be different, but at least you will see that we were very well underway. Managing cash flow and liquidity is our #1 priority, and you will equally see from this chart, how quickly we actively address the cash items in our limit. So group's underlying EBITDA reflects the impact from the COVID-19 travel suspension, and we more than offset the decline in operating cash flow by a reduction in our net investments as we cut all major projects during the current period of travel suspension. This leads to a free cash flow of minus EUR 1.4 billion, slightly ahead of prior year. Please note that the disposal proceeds from the sale of the German specialist businesses during Q1 are equally included. Free cash flow after dividends ended at minus EUR 1.7 billion, up EUR 170 million versus previous year. And this includes dividend payments for '19 as the payout was mid-February before the COVID-19 crisis. Please note that the cash flow from financing has increased because we have drawn down from our RCF to help fund our seasonal working capital requirements. As you can see from the IFRS 16 column of the cash flow statement, the higher operating cash flow is offset by a lower cash flow from financing due to increased payments for finance lease liabilities. So the total cash flow, as you can see here, is the same under IFRS 16 and pro forma IAS 17. And one final comment here again. This year's net CapEx and investments will be reduced to circa EUR 440 million, a reduction of at least 50% compared to previous guidance. Asset and debt financing is expected to amount to around EUR 400 million. Please note that these numbers are clearly the effects from the Hapag-Lloyd Cruises transaction. Then moving to the next slide, the movement in net debt. So the first half closing net debt based on pro forma IAS 17 numbers increased to around EUR 2.65 billion, in line with the usual seasonal swing and driven by the discussed development of free cash flow in the first quarter. Referring to the last line of the table, you can see, compared to the previous year that our seasonal swing in net debt has improved by EUR 348 million, which is predominantly due to Hapag-Lloyd Cruises now being reported as a disposal group. Regarding the other elements of the movement in net debt of prior company cash flow, asset financing increased according to plan with roughly 2/3 related to committed aircraft re-leasing of new Dreamliners and the remainder related to cruise ship financing of around EUR 120 million. As expected and due to the first-time adoption of IFRS 16 and associated lease liabilities, net debt is higher based on reported IFRS 16 figures. And then lastly, on the next slide, I'd like to remind you of our withdrawn guidance. And on the 15th of March, we withdrew the group's full year '20 financial guidance based on the current unpredictable situation. And as you will all understand, we also refrain from issuing a new guidance as uncertainties continue to exist. And as already mentioned, we need to raise dividend payments for the term of the KfW credit line. So with that, I would like to hand over to Fritz again.
Friedrich Joussen
executiveThank you, Birgit. That’s easy -- because now the slide is actually the first slide again, right? In summary, big crisis, short-term liquidity management, reducing fixed cost. It's not too difficult. That's what we did. And we have now decent liquidity for some time. And we will relaunch the business hopefully soon. Now as soon as the business will be relaunched, we will actually go from liquidity to P&L and manage P&L. And that means profitability up, investments down, costs down, agility up, quality up, so cost down and quality up. This will be the digitalization project, 30% cost down [ at thousand support ] and focused. And as I said, I mean, we had a very strong January, the strongest in company history. And the reason for that because customers want to go on vacation. There's no reason to assume that will change. We had a good discussion on business travel. Business travel might be different. People might be used to online working at home office or what and will not travel, but all indications I see that people want to go on vacation and just viewing a movie of a destination is not good enough. So the market will be there. Traffic on the website is good. Future bookings are good. So as soon as we are allowed to do business, we will have good business. But TUI will become leaner, less capital-intense and more digital. And I think that's good. At every crisis, there's a chance. Thank you very much. We are open for your question.
Operator
operator[Operator Instructions] The first question comes from Jamie Rollo from Morgan Stanley.
Jamie Rollo
analystI hope everyone is well. Three questions, please. And maybe I'll ask them separately. First, on the liquidity, it looks quite tight, that EUR 2 billion, given you seem to be hinting at maybe EUR 1 billion customer deposit outflow, and there could be, I guess, another EUR 1 billion on the trade payables plus the cash burn each month. So I'm just wondering, you seem to be relying on the markets reopening. So the question is, what happens if markets don't reopen and your operations remain suspended for a bit longer? How many months liquidity do you think you have, please?
Birgit Conix
executiveYes. I can already sort of reply to that, Jamie. Thanks for your question. And I understand your question, of course, because nobody knows when travel will resume. But at this point in time, as we said, I mean, customers are willing to travel, but it's uncertain as to when that happens. What we can tell you is that as we demonstrated also, and it started during the weekend when the COVID-19 crisis have started is that we are on top of things, and we were the first to go to KfW, we had our scenario planning ready. We could never have gone so quickly if we didn't have our scenario planning ready before that because that normally takes a while. So then we have also the successful execution, of course, of requesting the KfW bridge loan. And then TUI is obviously very important also to Germany. So I would like to point that out as well. So this time, and I'll go quickly through the levers of liquidity. But this time, again, we are proactive. We have our scenarios ready. Only when the travel resumes, that is a big unknown, of course. But we do have options, alternatives, and what I can tell you and that is what you have done because I looked at your analysis, but we have a fixed cost run rate, which is about EUR 250 million to EUR 300 million a month. Then you can think of customer refunds in the same order of magnitude as what I just mentioned on the fixed cost run rate. Then we also expect the Hapag-Lloyd positive and not to forget during the month of -- I mean, in the next month. And then the bookings for summer '21, we see them already as really open, and then we think of other items like sale and leaseback, just to think of that and other items, as we mentioned. So what I can say is that we are proactive, and we do everything that is in our remit, and we can currently announce a EUR 2.1 billion liquidity, which is probably more than you would have imagined when we talked 2 months ago. So with that, maybe if you want...
Friedrich Joussen
executiveYes. I mean Jamie, it's good. I would have said -- you are the first and you have 3 questions. And I think it's an important question. I mean liquidity is at top of mind and this is not only CFO that taught me, every day, me personally, looking what we pay. In the first month, you saw a liquidity drain which is much bigger with -- so the past which has gone because we had to solve some financial instruments. Operationally, it was much less and the savings only kicked in right now. So as Birgit said, let's assume for a moment, EUR 250 million cash trend from fixed cost, so my personal view is, we will be on top of things. We have now a 50% repay rate. And my view is as soon as we see a little bit light at the end of tunnel, it will be not a problem because -- and also cash will be flowing in. And as Birgit said, the EUR 650 million from Hapag-Lloyd are to come in June. That doesn't say liquidity will be lasting and it is obvious, there we also look at parallel, of course, planned for the worst, hope for the best. We are looking at our options. We will see the options. The options will be more probable than in the first round. That's also clear. Regarding the first round, the banks could have gone away, the KfW was not there. So I'm positively in a positive mood. But of course, it is day-to-day management and liquidity is #1, #2 and #3 priority.
Jamie Rollo
analystOkay. And then, just on the second question, which you touched on on other options to increase liquidity, could you -- on the sale and leaseback idea, could you please quantify the value of the 100% owned assets the company has that are not encumbered by debt already? So what is the quantum of assets that you could raise money against, please? And as an alternative to that, are you considering equity as an option rather than just simply adding more debt?
Friedrich Joussen
executiveOkay. Yes. I mean Jamie, first of all, we don't disclose. But of course, we have levers. They are not huge, but they are significant. I mean -- but we don't disclose yet, what is an option, what is in our hands. And the other one, the equity, I mean, today, it does -- it's not -- if possible, it's not the right thing to do. I mean because the equity markets for us at the current share price levels are not efficient and very dilutive. So -- and also, not accessible, by the way, in the time we need. That said, this is our foresight for next half year, I would say. Of course, we are looking at all options, but if possible, we will do something else. And I think there are enough other options, which I'm absolutely clear are possible.
Jamie Rollo
analystOkay. And then finally, you mentioned Hapag-Lloyd. How certain is that deal to go through? Has the joint venture raised the debt? And does TUI we need to inject more cash into that JV?
Friedrich Joussen
executiveNo. Certain, no. No equity injection. Certain, yes.
Jamie Rollo
analystIt's raised the debt, is it already?
Friedrich Joussen
executiveSorry. You know that -- yes. TUI, of course, is fine with liquidity.
Jamie Rollo
analystAnd it's raised the debt to fund the Hapag-Lloyd acquisition, has it?
Friedrich Joussen
executiveYes.
Birgit Conix
executiveYes.
Operator
operatorAnd the next question comes from Jaafar Mestari from Exane.
Jaafar Mestari
analyst3 quick questions, please. The first one is just on cash burn since April. So EUR 2.1 billion liquidity today is about EUR 1 billion lower than at end of March. And even if we exclude the debt repayment, it still looks like EUR 700 million of cash over 6 weeks. Could you maybe just break that down for us between operating cash burn, financing and working capital, just so we can see what gets better from here? And second question on consumer behavior for the rest of 2020, maybe even '21. What sort of destination mix and product mix do you think you need to deploy? And did you assume demand will be very much the same? It's just going to be an uncertainty on volumes? Or are you adding, remixing different destinations, closer to home domestic trips, short trips, et cetera? And then my last question would be on the long-term capital structure. As you said, you may have enough loans and bridge loans and debt for now. But I guess there's an entirely separate question, which is what is the long-term sustainable capital structure for a business like TUI? So what sort of level of leverage? And what sort of debt versus equity mix would you feel comfortable with over the long term when this is repaired?
Friedrich Joussen
executiveBirgit, do you want to start?
Birgit Conix
executiveYes. I'll start with the last question. And of course, currently, it's a bit early to talk about that because we do not know when travel resumes. And as I said before, we have various scenarios. Of course, adding substantial debt is -- and depending on when travel resumes, because this is a really big factor when travel resumes, and we did that modeling as well, the working capital inflow is really very substantial. But suppose in a worst-case scenario, you would have to add more debt. Of course, we need to think of solution for a healthy balance sheet that speaks for itself. So -- and there, we will -- and we are looking at a variety of options. And it's really way too early to talk about that. And also, obviously, you need more data points -- when does travel resume is already one of them, but I do understand your question. Then on the cash burn so far, so we have a portion of, let's say, around, let’s say, EUR 350 million to EUR 400 million of commercial paper also and the laterals are included and the rest of it as we said, taking down fixed costs substantially and also with the customer refunds. There you will start seeing the repayment, then it dips towards the rate before also for your models, what I just mentioned it, same order of magnitude as the fixed cost run rate, that is what you can take. So actually demonstrates that we were really very focused on cash. And as Fritz also said, it's also in our daily cash flow. So we really have a cash power in place where we discussed everything that comes in and out. So I think that's the key to the perspective.
Friedrich Joussen
executiveYes. Part of it -- maybe a couple of remarks on my side. I mean, the first one, the repayment of customers and also the payment of hotels, both are part of the other, let's say, same order of magnitude. And I can tell you, we are sticky on this because you know it's also very clear. The longer -- we actually keep our cash together, the more likely is that, it will be kept in the system. And also for -- with our hotel partners, like with all other partners we are agreeing payment schemes that we pay a part, and everything else will be paid once the business is resuming. And everybody needs to suffer a little bit. If you -- if the revenue is gone, then the revenue is gone. And being part of the TUI family has significant advantages for them because we will restart the business together with them. So we will take an appropriate contribution from their side in order to be part of our family. In terms of traveling, I think, what we are preparing for is very clear, we will -- we are preparing for destinations where we can control safety best. And that is areas where COVID infections are low, areas where we have limited connections to the general public, if you like, islands are good. We will be very careful with excursions and mingling up customers with locals and so on, but that's also accepted from their side. So coming back, it will be also south of Europe, we need to have and we want to have medical service close by. So we will not eliminate the risk of infection, but we will mitigate the risk of infection, right? So nobody can eliminate it, but mitigation. So what do we do if things happen? And we have concepts in place, but that's, of course, in Europe, easier than in places outside Europe. So it will be Euro Scoot, it will be -- as that cruises will be limited in terms of load factor. And maybe even Germany first, so that we are starting from here and do shorter cruises and so on. So it will be a little bit more close by. One thing is also clear, we will be opening hotels in Mexico soon for Mexican and American customers. I mean that's very clear. So these hotels will also open, and the offers will be there. I just believe that the long-haul flying will be something for the summer. It's not -- maybe not the right thing. Now it is anyway bigger in winter. So therefore, we are now pushing a lot for local and for European. Hope that helps.
Jaafar Mestari
analystI guess my question on the cash burn was more backward looking. I just meant really, it looks like EUR 1 billion lower liquidity over the last 6 weeks, EUR 300 million is the debt repayment. Could you maybe give us some color on the other EUR 700 million that you've consumed over 6 weeks, please?
Friedrich Joussen
executiveLower liquidity, Birgit will take that.
Birgit Conix
executiveIt's a mix. It's actually a mix of things. So I would say, on the operational cash out, let's say, it's really in the run rate that we just mentioned. So that is already one thing. And then the rest also, for instance, customer refunds and also some insurance covers, et cetera, that we had to cover. So it's actually fully in line with [ Italian ] model.
Friedrich Joussen
executiveI mean I think if I understand your question correctly, you think, is it really as low as we think going forward based on the experience in the past. I mean first of all, when we started the business, then the cost structure was not there, in losses. So it was not EUR 250 million to EUR 300 million. So the first 2 weeks, you see more. Then you have the commercial papers, which actually had to be returned. Then you see a little bit of reserve cash as well. Yes, so cash collaterals for actually travel, but this is full season effect. So it's not repeating. And that actually brings us to the amount. We have now a daily projection of actually what the cash payments are and I can assure you, I personally sit in the call every day. And it's not the first time I manage the company for cash. And when you manage a company for cash, you don't care so much about the P&L effect. We are managing the company for cash, and we will be doing that for the next 2 or 3 months, however long it takes, until we have a full restart in the system.
Operator
operatorThe next question comes from James Ainley from Citigroup.
James Ainley
analystThree questions from me as well, please. First, on your commentary about shifting to more asset-light, how you particularly thinking about the structure of the airline and provision of aircraft-only [Audio Gap] context to this [Audio Gap] fully outsourced? Second question is, could you give us a breakdown of the percentage of customers, whose holidays are canceled? What percentage except credit notes or vouchers, what percentage was booked [ or funds ]? And what level of discount you're giving today?
Friedrich Joussen
executiveYes. I shall answer. Third one?
James Ainley
analystAnd then the third one is, just can you update us on the status of the compensation from Boeing, please.
Friedrich Joussen
executiveOkay. With Boeing, we are in good negotiation. No further status, but I'm pretty sure, I'm pretty hopeful that it will resolve, yes, and not in so far future. And the asset of the airlines, not having an airline is not an option. It needs to be more intelligent. The airline is an essential facility, but something is also clear. We need to rightsize the airline. We have -- it's having appropriate size and an appropriate structure and so the corporate asset structure. We have been thinking about that quite a while. Now as we don't fly, it may be a good opportunity to focus a little bit more on that. And the last one was 50%. 50% return rate of not-not. You also asked what is the incentive for our voucher. This is different in different countries. I would say, on average 15%, maybe 10%, 15%. But also, please remember, 10%, 15% is not fixed. I mean, at the end of the day, in U.K., we give 15% online discount, right? I mean at the end of the day, don't put discounts on discounts on the discounts, right? So it will be a little bit smarter than that. But we are -- we have face value, I think in the U.K., 15% on average and Germany, I think is EUR 100 for full paying member of the travel group, so in a family is parents with children. Anyway, we are playing around a little bit and at the end of the day, the more important point that the conversion of the redemption of the voucher is good.
James Ainley
analystDid you say 50, 5-0 percent of people take cash -- demand cash refunds?
Friedrich Joussen
executiveYes, yes, yes.
Operator
operatorAnd the next question comes from Richard Clarke from Bernstein.
Richard Clarke
analystThree, if I may. Just want to -- just reflect on your comments of being a leaner organization going forward and cutting 30% of your cost, what would you expect to be the sort of top line ambitions here? Would you still be looking to transport 21 million customers? Or does that number come down, sort of roughly in line with that 30% as well? Second question on your comment around disposals and the disposing of nonprofitable entities, I mean, I guess there's some probably pretty big chunk of your company like the U.K. and Germany that can go quite close to that, how big do those ambitions of disposals be? What are we talking about there? And then third question, just coming back to cash needs again. Obviously, you've got some support from the German government. Are there any discussions going on with Spain or Turkey or the U.K. in terms of support that they might be able to provide, given the importance of tourism to those countries?
Friedrich Joussen
executiveLet me try to focus. I mean lean organization, of course, top line will be back, I mean, maybe not next year, but the year thereafter. If there's a vaccine, it will be growing fast. I mean, we are talking about a more lean and digital execution of executive tasks, we will be doing in the higher quality with less cost. So when we talk about the savings, it is savings on existing revenues. Now that said, maybe not next year, it will come back. Therefore, we have a little bit more bigger or little bit of flexibility in the system. But long term, it's just value increase or margin increase, if you like. How big is the ambition for disposal? I mean U.K. where did you see the -- of nonperforming assets and you thought, U.K., that's interesting. No, I think we are talking here, France, and we are talking here other parts of the business. We have a Spanish business, we have a nice business in destination experience. We have Harbor Handling business and so on. I mean we look at a lot of businesses, but not the core business, right? And the German government -- I mean, we have local schemes to support labor. These are all local. We have local schemes to support working capital. These are local -- there will be European law, but the countries have actually implemented very different things. But on the KfW loan, this excludes, as to my understanding, third country support. So even if it was available, it's very clear that these kind of facility -- is a global facility. By the way, that was one of the big issues that this is supporting our global activity and not only German activity. And it was one of the big successes of negotiation initially to achieve that. And you can see with other companies, other airlines that this is quite -- can be quite a distraction, if you don't achieve that, because you have one company and how can you make sure that the money flows the base and you cannot hurt as -- you cannot plant the money. The money is the money, right? And at the end of the day, it's difficult when you look at prepayments from German customers to a certain hotel, how you want to do that, if certain money is only granted to secure certain parts of the business. So the KfW facility is a facility, which is a global facility, but it excludes the like government scheme in other countries. Does that answer your question or...
Richard Clarke
analystYes. That's clear.
Operator
operatorThe next question comes from Adrian Pehl from Commerzbank.
Adrian Pehl
analystAlso good to hear that your safe and healthy. So a couple of questions. First of all, on your presentation on Page 12, actually, where you outlined potential destination that might open up anytime soon. I was just wondering that portfolio that you mentioned there, would be already sufficient to make you satisfied for the summer season, i.e. if Spain, Mainland does not open up, Italy or Turkey, is that still enough for you to have a decent business for this year's summer? My second question is coming back to KfW a little bit. I mean, obviously, and in spite of the fact that you are quite confident on Hapag-Lloyd cruises sale, I'm just trying to get my head around, why the amount has not been like EUR 3 billion, for example, since liquidity still obviously appears to be tight? What are the prerequisites for a higher amount? And can you get additional money, if you find out finally, it's probably not enough? And a question on actually sale and leaseback measures that you just announced. I mean it's probably kind of a chicken and egg problem, isn't it? Because otherwise, if markets do not open up, then actually the sale part of the sale leaseback is probably a bit difficult in terms of pricing that you might get. So any comments on that? And very lastly, you obviously got new shareholders since April, I must say, Mr. [ Shati ]. I was just wondering and curious to hear your thoughts, if you had already some contact through him? Does he have any ideas strategically? Or what's the situation there?
Friedrich Joussen
executiveMay be you...
Birgit Conix
executiveI can go first on the amount. And I understand your question with the information you have today, middle of May, then you could think, oh by additional and not EUR 3 billion instead of EUR 1.8 billion. But you need to think in how it works and maybe you remember where you were in middle of March, that was a totally different situation. Nobody would have expected we would sit here today like we are sitting around the table with spaces in between, et cetera, and it was a completely different situation, and at that time, we were accounting with an assumption of travel as of the beginning of June. And everybody thought even there, yes, well, that's kind of -- that's a very viable case. So that is in light of that as you need to see this development of the COVID crisis. And I think it's for many companies, it's same. You can only act with the information you have on that specific day because nobody knows. And that's, I think, would be the response for that.
Friedrich Joussen
executiveYes, yes. Absolutely. I mean that's true. I remember the Sunday where we said, I mean, Adrian it's also like you -- where you sit down, say, okay, guys, we need to make sure that we get it, right? Okay, fine. We -- it will have liquidity for the next 3 days. Okay. And all that's interesting. So what can we actually do? And my point is shooting EUR 1.8 billion was EUR 1.8 billion, we could have shot EUR 2.1 billion. I mean we could have done whatever. At that point in time, it seemed to be EUR 1.8 billion. We went for the door 2 weeks later. We were the first one approved government-backed zone and also, also don't underestimate the EUR 1.8 billion does actually 2 things. The first thing it does, it locks in the banks. So the banks are at the table, everything is good. The banks are there, KfW is there, so that's good. And also, I mean, in case we would need more, I think, now, things are at the table. So I mean, nobody knows. It only comes back 30% in November and -- it may lose or whatever, we will be taking care of it. I think the chance right now to secure additional money are better than securing at the Sunday, 16th of March. And I have been in the room, Birgit has been in the room, many of the team members who have been in the room, interesting days, I tell you. So it's -- hindsight is easy, and we could have said 3. Because I’ve said, knowing that Lufthansa need 9, maybe we should have said 3. So anyway, so water under the bridge, destinations for summer. I would say, if you open, Miyako, Canary, if you open Greece, let's say, these 3 factors is smaller. But if you open the 3, I'm happy, okay. So we are not managing the company for P&L. We are managing the company cash for cash, remember. If this comes in, cash is not a problem. Now if it doesn't come in, then we will have discussions. But if it comes in, cash is not a problem. P&L, maybe more difficult. But that's something, then we rebook customers, we have enough volume to fill these destinations. And I think customers have enough flexibility, just to go on vacation when it's safe. So it's good. It may be even better to open half of the destinations and fill everything that have the full destination, everything is still stopped. So we take whatever it is. But as soon as we can really start selling summer this year, the liquidity issue will be less of a problem because then immediately, you have a flowing in working capital. And that's, I think, the most important thing. We take care about cost and P&L when it's appropriate. But now we take about the cash, and that to realize important that it is opened. [ 7 digits like], of course, I mean, today, [ 7 digit figures mounted ], right, because you have distressed assets everywhere. So but we are preparing everything in order to be and as soon as we have a little bit air under the wings, off we go. And then we have [ Kathy Summit ] so much as a good friend and long-lasting business partner. I know him and his family, and he is trusting in the tourism business, he's trusting in TUI, and he knows us very, very well and the situation very, very well of all kind of aspects for a very long time. He's one of the longest lasting business partner, that he invested 5%, it is maybe not a bad sign. And therefore, also, I think also for KfW and for other people who have actually loaned, if the equity side is not -- if the equity side is also moving, usually, it's also good for the bond side and for the bank side, these loans.
Operator
operatorThe next question comes from Cristian Nedelcu from UBS.
Cristian Nedelcu
analystFirstly on liquidity, overall, you said, at the summer, what's the comfortable level of liquidity for the business? On [ buildout ], you did more or less? Secondly, on the data that you are disclosing, it seems that net debt is going to move to somewhere around EUR 4 billion or it is above EUR 4 billion by the middle of June when you're going to restart operations. On the midterm, what's an acceptable level of financial leverage, so that net debt to EBITDA, at what level do we think is sustainable in mid-term? And lastly, looking at the recovery overall. I think -- could you tell us a bit more what's the cash breakeven occupancy for your hotels or for your cruises? Or give us a bit of color how we should think about as far as sales as our recovery? And equally from the working capital point, what happens with all the people that have already paid the advance payment, you referred to us at the beginning, they will be the ones that they will travel. So effectively, how do you think about the lack of cash from that -- lack of cash coming in, new cash coming in?
Friedrich Joussen
executiveIt's difficult to understand everything.
Birgit Conix
executiveYes, it was a very hard. There was a lot of background noise. But on the additional debt because that's also a question that I -- then you asked. So it's, as I said earlier, because I already talked about that, it depends on the travel opening scenario, of course. And as we indicated, we have a run rate cash out that is for fixed cost for customer refunds, et cetera, and some other small items, and we indicated that also in the presentation. And this will lead naturally to an increased debt position, as Fritz already said. But it depends on the opening of travel. And of course, then we are so actively managing that, and we will -- we have a variety of options, and then we will address it in order to make sure that we have a healthy balance sheet going forward. That's about what I -- I mean, that's what I can say about it.
Friedrich Joussen
executiveYes. And the other questions I could -- would like to answer, but I didn't understand them. I mean do we have understand...
Cristian Nedelcu
analystApologies about the background noise. But the question was, what's a comfortable liquidity level at the end of the summer for a business like TUI that was...
Friedrich Joussen
executiveOkay. Clear. No, I think the interesting thing is usually, we have the summer, the positive swing and then winter, negative. When your summer is more or less 0, even though the winter is very positive, right? So as soon as the business starts, even if it doesn't start, and summer, it starts and winter starts, you will have immediately cash inflow. So the liquidity is really only a problem until you have business, then actually it goes. Now on -- let me talk a little bit about that. And I think that -- I'm not a financial guy. I'm just the CEO. But how I see it, of course, we have no additional debt. But we also have enforced 2 years of nondividends, right? That's very clear. So calculating EUR 300 million, EUR 350 million or whatever, per year is EUR 700 million. If you then say that, Marella, wanted to put any way into, if possible, into the Hapag-Lloyd, into TUI Cruises, that will delever. When you think about possible rightsizing, assume for a moment, just assume for a moment, we had 15 aeroplanes left. This -- it would immediately not only save cost, also delever the company significantly, right? I mean, therefore, I would not be too worried. It's not that we have done less business. But no, we will have oversupply of aeroplanes everywhere, because definitely, business travel will not happen. So I would -- we will have excess to supply, even if we rightsize the airline. So my personal view is, if we look at our assets, if we don't invest into hotels like we have in the past because there's enough volume offer anyway, my view is, our business is big enough to generate enough cash. I mean we just did a lot of investment in the last year because the business was growing so fast that investment was a good policy. But I think for the next 2 years or 3 years, we will not invest into hotels, we will invest into IT. We will not invest into hotels, we will not invest into ships. And we will, if possible, do as little as possible with aeroplanes. So you will see much, much, much less investment. You will see no dividends. You will see a little bit of capital restructuring of our balance sheet. I'm absolutely -- as I said, I'm not a CFO, but from the CEO, it doesn't sound hard. And what is cash from operations was...
Birgit Conix
executiveThat would be -- let's say, around 35% to 40% of the total cash fixed cost run rate that we indicated. I would say, currently, that's what we currently see.
Operator
operatorAnd the next question comes from [ Alexander Cutler ] from Barclays.
Unknown Analyst
analystActually, I have a couple of questions and mostly basically of all these scenarios maybe you had in mind when you asked for the state guarantee. I mean now we're a month, 2 months later, and I'm just wondering, where do you see yourself in these scenarios you anticipated? We know in the worst-case scenario for you and the EUR 1.8 billion was basically still -- yes, kind of like taking this into account? Or are we now in a situation, which it seems to be that the business is worse off than anticipated? And then, it would be great, actually, if you could also walk us through maybe, how you see working capital in a ramp-up now? If, for example, if travel resumes then in June, July, how this plays out for the next maybe 2, 3 months? And then how you see then the winter season looking like?
Birgit Conix
executiveOkay. So the first question was about liquidity and versus the initial case that we made with the resumption in June. There, we can clearly state that our liquidity position is better than what we originally planned. And that is -- I mean, that is good news. As to the scenarios, as you can imagine, it's difficult for me to disclose all the scenarios that we do not know, when travel resumes, but we have various cases of course, which would be not very sensible if we wouldn't. So we do have scenarios, but I cannot really, really go into the details of that. And then your last question was on the working capital inflow. And that is, of course, it's -- you will see also a very large onetime effect because obviously, currently, we don't have any revenues. So then -- and your payables are, let's say, 30 to 60 days, on average, 60 is what we target for. So there you will see a onetime effect. And then, of course, we also have the seasonal pattern, as you have seen from that illustrative graph that you can even add to that. So that's why the working capital inflow, once travel resumes is pretty significant.
Unknown Analyst
analystOkay. And then, if I may, a follow-up actually on the Hapag-Lloyd acquisition. So just wondering the proceeds you expected are roughly EUR 650 million, no?
Friedrich Joussen
executiveSure.
Unknown Analyst
analystAnd then on Page 21, you actually have a line item that is saying that the disposal group here of Hapag-Lloyd Cruises, there is a net debt position of EUR 329 million, is this correct?
Friedrich Joussen
executiveSo this is the leveraging of the company? Yes, sure. Yes...
Birgit Conix
executiveThat is correct, yes.
Unknown Analyst
analystSo then the EV would be then basically this plus the EUR 650 million. And the -- my question also is actually would then be the -- is there any cash in the Hapag-Lloyd group? Where you kind of have to fall maybe on the current liquidity?
Birgit Conix
executiveAnd then on some -- on net provision.
Wolfgang Flintermann
executiveDo we have any net provision?
Friedrich Joussen
executiveYes.
Wolfgang Flintermann
executive[indiscernible]
Friedrich Joussen
executiveYes, maybe...
Birgit Conix
executiveYes, maybe you can answer Wolfgang.
Wolfgang Flintermann
executiveThe EUR 600 million is the cash inflow clearly debt release the group, and this is a net position. So you have to add this on top, plus the equity we give in. And if you remember, we've been stating an enterprise way of 1 to 1.2. And if you deduct that, you’ll come to the number.
Unknown Analyst
analystOkay. Understood. Brilliant. And then, my last one, actually. Could you provide maybe a granular overview of the capital structure, sorry, at the moment, maybe by line item? How much is [ under your share ] and the commercial or other facilities? And how much basically of this is vehicles -- so basically a split of capital structure and liquidity.
Birgit Conix
executiveYes, we will follow-up on that with you. But that's fine, we'll do that immediately.
Operator
operatorThe next question comes from Mark Irvine from TUI.
Mark Irvine-Fortescue
analystI think that's me Mark Fortescue from Stifel. Just 2, hopefully, one left, please. One on third-party hotels, and one on the MAX aircraft. Just on the hotel, with the force majeure contract, what does that mean for the relationship with those partners? Have they generally accepted, the pain needs to be shared? Does it affect the ability for you to secure inventory with those partners for next season till summer '21? Just a little bit about the force majeure, that would be helpful. And then the second question is just on the MAX aircraft. In light of your comments about becoming more asset-light faster. How much flexibility is there on the downside with that framework agreement? Can you get out of it, closely now that the world looks so different? Maybe just an update on the flexibility and on that contract.
Friedrich Joussen
executiveOkay. MAX aircraft first. The Boeing, we're in discussions, as you know, and in good faith. I mean and they'll resolve it, I'm pretty sure. The motivations on both sides are high. But we have less order book than we had aircraft of the fleet. So we have flexibility. So we can shrink the fleet, but we don't need to touch the order book. So I think we have enough flexibility. We need -- we will rightsize the airlines, but the order book might not be or will not be potentially affected. That's our today's position. Second point, hotels. Yes, we have payments, which we don't give to hotels. Yes, that's true. And we have payments which we give to hotels. And the negotiation is very clear. We are an industry without revenue, tough luck. You have been benefiting. Everybody has been benefiting from the great industry and the vertical integration and so on and so on. And now we -- everybody has to contribute. But that said, it's a strong bond, and we will be able to negotiate mutual beneficial deals. And these mutual beneficial deals means, we pay less now, and we actually, therefore, do commitments for future businesses and work together with the parties. And when we start up, they are considered specifically as core and with some of our partners, we still have the prepayments, and we will actually make sure that the prepayments will be up and will be served first, and the volume will be going there. I mean we are in this industry with most of these hotel partners for tens of years, if not 50 years. It is now one of the most unprecedented and maybe the most unprecedented crisis. And as we are in problems, when we don't have revenues, our travel agencies are in problems. So the downstream business, the upstream business with our hotels are in problems. It's not like happy birthday party, everybody can have wishes. We are actually into it together. Of course, we will make sure that our value chain is intact. So we will make sure that the hotels are not disappearing. So we are interested in a big offer. But at the same time, our first priority needs to be that the cash doesn't flow out, just meaningless to hotels or meaningless to customers. This is each and every euro, each and every day, and it must be a good reason to pay. And the good reason is actually a past reason because we have done business, but it's also a future reason because we have a good agreement or we have a strategic alignment and so on and so on. And I think here, we are just doing a professional job. And by the way, I don't think very different from others as well I mean, so I have a feeling that we are getting along quite well.
Operator
operatorThe next question comes from Rowland Clark from Barclays.
James Clark
analystJust 2 quick ones. There's a little bit tension in the travel industry on customer deposits and refund. Do you think this could ultimately, in the future, we could be looking at the treatment of customer deposits by travel companies changing in some way, perhaps, excluding this from working capital? And then my second one is, is hypothetically, the travel lockdown does continue through the summer. Is the communication line with KfW still open that you could turn to that as your primary solution and would you as your primary solution?
Friedrich Joussen
executiveOkay. Okay, probably as one of the options, that's clear, but not -- I mean there will be other options as well, and we need to -- we don't have the luxury not to look at options. So we will look at options. As I said, capital increases are maybe not the most efficient thing to do. But anyway, we will look at different options. If you ring-fenced customer deposits, it would more or less destroy the industry. I mean the nature of the benefit of the industry is its positive working capital. And the positive working capital has been the engine of that industry. Because think about it, customers give money, we invest at -- to -- with the hotels to invest into offers. The offers generate offers that, in turn, generates demand at lower prices and an oversupply. And therefore, it's a self-fueling engine. And as long as the industry grows, it's beautiful because, it's more and more fresh money. And as we believe the industry will be growing fast, it has been growing -- outgrowing GDP in the last 15 years, it is a beautiful model. And if you break it, if you ring-fence it, right? So therefore, it's in nobody's interest to ring-fence customer deposits. What we do, we are securing customer deposits. And that's something which is also very special because there is no other consumer business in the world, which is actually secured as a prepayment of a customer, yes, in terms of the certainty customers have that they can get and demand their money back. So I think the nature of the industry is actually the nature of positive working capital.
Operator
operatorAnd the last question comes from Alex Brignall from Redburn.
Alex Brignall
analystJust one last from me. On capacity plan, your 35% first, it would be interesting to know what you've done to capacity, since we last heard from you? And then within the current program that you have
Friedrich Joussen
executiveNo, what is it? Sorry, Alex, I think I didn't get you. I think you said the capacity plan was 35% booked. That's understood. Okay, maybe he's gone because, now we lost him, I think or are we lost? Operator, can you say, if we are lost or if Alex is lost?
Operator
operatorNo. We are not lost. Just one second, I will get him back on the line now. Now he's back on the line.
Alex Brignall
analystSorry, I'm not sure if you heard me the first time. Your 35% booked now, could you tell us what your capacity plan has done since you last spoke to us? And then within your capacity plan, how much of it is your own capacity versus capacity that could be taken out with force majeure clauses that isn't sort of yours as it were?
Friedrich Joussen
executiveThe 35% was largely committed. That's clear. The wholesale model is largely committed. So of course, we try now, and we will get out of capacity as a force majeure and -- but also, we will be focusing to serve our capacity or the capacity instead of these first. But for -- so the utmost important now, because it's, again, a P&L question, right? The utmost important is liquidity. So liquidity doesn't matter. I think in liquidity terms, we would be happy to wherever it opens. And let's assume for a moment, we were average booked in all countries and in all destinations. If now Majorca opened first, we would, of course offer to everybody who is not Majorca, to go to Majorca, right? So we will actually make sure that we fill as much as possible, everything which is possible. I just want to maybe -- thank you very much for all your questions, and I think we need to close. I want to close the meeting with a very positive message I got from the [ wires ]. Obviously, the Minister for Internal in Germany has said the latest in 15th of June, he will open all borders. So that's it. I don't know -- hopefully, it's true or not, but I see that as a DP, a ticker, I have them all the time on my phone. So if it's meaningful, and if it's true, and if it's not, something which is fake news, at the end of the day, that would be a good message as part of our half year results. Thank you very much for being tuned in. As I said, we take care of liquidity. We look that we don't have cash outflows. We look at it. We get enough liquidity for actually the time that we don't have business. As soon as we have business liquidity, we'll immediately -- focus will go from liquidity to P&L. And that means, limiting the damage of that. And that's the question of how can we do profitable business, how can we actually make sure that the profits also in turn become cash again in order to limit the debt, and we will focus the business, save the cost, make it more lean and more digital. And the company will be a little bit different. And as Birgit said, we will be very, very, very disciplined on investments because not only we are disciplined because it's also not a good thing to do for the time when you have an oversupply. So it's a self-fulfilling prophecy, if you like, as well. Thank you very much for being in the call and talk to you soon.
Read the full transcript via the API
You're viewing the first half of this call. Get the complete TUI AG transcript — plus 252,000+ transcripts from 12,000+ companies, speaker segments, AI summaries and full-text search — through the EarningsCalls.dev API.
Get the API View API docs →This call discussed
For developers and AI pipelines
Programmatic access to TUI AG earnings transcripts and 252,000+ others is available through the
EarningsCalls.dev REST API. Plans from $24.99/month — full transcripts, speaker segments,
full-text search, and the recently-added /api/v1/transcripts/recent polling endpoint for ETL pipelines.