Turners Automotive Group Limited (TRA) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Okay. Good morning, everyone. It's 10:00 a.m., so we'll get things underway. Thanks for taking the time to join the call today. So I've got Aaron Saunders, our Group CFO, with me. And my name is Todd Hunter, the Group CEO. So we'll go through the half year results and then we'll open up for Q&A at the end. So we'll run this like we normally do. You can either type a question into the Q&A section of the Teams webinar or you can raise your hand, and I can just unmute you to ask your question. So you can do it either way. Presume that the unmuting is just going to make things flow a bit easier, but we'll get to that shortly. So yes, let me connect then here to the [indiscernible]. Just bear with me a little. We normally use Zoom, but we're using Teams today. So hopefully, it works out okay. Actually, can I just get someone to raise their hand just to make sure they can hear me okay? Yes. Great. Thank you. Okay. So we'll go do a quick overview of first half, then Aaron is going to take us through the financials. He'll hand back to me for the segment results and then a couple of comments about the outlook. We're very pleased with the first 6 months just completed, another record result for the business. And yes, it definitely highlights the consistent and stable earnings that we're able to generate from Turners Automotive Group. And I think growing earnings despite the challenging macro is an outstanding result. As you will have noticed, the earnings composition has changed, and we fully expected it would with the economy deteriorating further. Auto retail profits are down and the finance profits are up to compensate that. There's definitely been some pressure on used car pricing with lower demand; however, we've seen pricing stabilize and strengthen in more recent months. We feel we're well on track to beating our $50 million profit target for the full year and in line with this, expect to pay a dividend of at least $0.27 per share. Since the annual meeting in September, we have received further third-party endorsement of how successful the Tina from Turners brand campaign has been. And we've also made the 3 finalists in the Company of the Year category in the Deloitte Top 200 awards, which we're very proud to be part of that small group. A couple of slides now just on the used car market. Whilst used car transactions are holding up okay at a total level, we feel like this masks a few changes. Used import registrations are down 14% year-on-year and really reflect the lower number of cars coming into the country. And we've continued to see demand strengthen at those lower price point segments. I think this is also a sort of pertinent time to remind everyone that used cars remain much less sensitive to the economic cycles as opposed to new cars, which tend to be far more discretionary. This graph really highlights quite starkly the difference between those 2 segments. And we continue to enjoy global leading levels of team engagement, which is great to see. You would have heard from us a lot that we put a considerable amount of effort into this right across the business, and we do see it as one of the Turners' super strengths. And with 53% of our team owning shares in Turners, it really turbocharges the effort and energy that our people put into our business. Okay. I'll just hand over to Aaron now to take you through the financial results.

Thanks, Todd, and good morning, everyone. Thanks for joining us on the call. Results wise, we saw a small drop in revenues, but growth in profits with EBIT up 3% and pretax profit up 5%. Earnings per share is up 2%, and the directors have declared a fully imputed dividend of $0.07 per share payable in January. I think the interesting thing is that the market certainly changed between quarters 1, 2, and what we're seeing now in quarter 3, and margins have continued to improve since a low point in the sort of 4 months between April and July. And pleasingly for us, car sales are tracking ahead of last year, and our finance and arrears -- arrears in our finance business continues to perform very well. Origination volumes are starting to lift, and we were hoping that we'd start to see a spring lift and that definitely seems to be materializing. And we expect to benefit more from the easing in the OCR in the second half. So we are now down to $20 million of what I would call sort of super cheap pandemic era swaps, and that'll roll off over the next 8 or 9 months. So we'll see essentially the full benefit of OCR cuts start to kick in late in this half. In insurance, our claims continue to track well below expectations with gross written premium holding up well. In EC Credit, corporate debt load is starting to recover. SME debt load has increased very quickly, which I think is an indicator of where the points are in the economy at the moment. And I think in a more general sense, credit metrics around the country are expected to be a tailwind for this business going into the second half. Just another look at the numbers there. From a revenue perspective, the material movement is really around auto. So that's a drop in auto, reflecting a drop in used car sales prices. And that has been partly offset by an increase in finance. So certainly, the lower consumer demand or certainly lower demand at higher price points has meant that our vehicle pricing and margins have been under some pressure in the auto business, and that is starting to alleviate itself in this third quarter. Finance revenue growth really does reflect the repricing strategy that we've applied to that book over the last 2 years. Profitability or profits have followed revenues. Net profits are really again about the dip in auto margins, largely offset by increasing net interest margin in finance and a recovery in the performance of Oxford. I guess also last year, we had significant boost from the weather events, the anniversary weekend weather event and following that, Cyclone Gabrielle. So that certainly, I think, provided a bit of an impetus to used car demand with people needing to replace vehicles at relatively short notice. And obviously, we haven't seen that benefit in this 6-month period. Finance net interest margin, as I noted, is expanding, and originations are starting to grow off market share gains, particularly in the premium segment, which is where we're targeting all our efforts in Oxford. And in corporate, costs have started to come down because largely our corporate debts are unhedged. And so we've been a more immediate beneficiary of those OCR drops. The benefits of a diversified business, something we've talked about over probably the last couple of meetings, but what it does give us are automatic or natural stabilizers and profits, and you've seen that play out in this last 6 months. So the group is continuing to grow in what has been a very tough trading environment, probably the toughest used car trading environment that we've seen even counting the GFC. So the composition of earnings in this first half looked different. And largely, that's played out as we expected it to with upside in Oxford and DPL Insurance more than offsetting the pressures on margin in auto. Just shout out for dividend growth over -- well, over longer than a decade now, obviously, pointed out, there was a bit of an impact from COVID in the year to March '20. But broadly speaking, solid growth in dividends, just a call out to our dividend reinvestment plan, so that will continue to apply to this January dividend. And that gives a benefit to shareholders. They can convert their dividends into Turners shares at a discount of 2% on the average market price. This year, we are predicting total dividends of $0.27 or at least $0.27 per share. And based on a share price of $4.50, this equates to a quite attractive gross yield of around about 8.3%. In terms of the balance sheet, there's a couple of things to call out. Inventory levels in auto are lower than we would like to see. Part of that reflects quite tight supply conditions, and the balance is our deliberate strategy to acquire lower-priced cars to meet market demand. And I would broadly say there's a 50-50 split in it, circa $8 million drop in inventory. So half of the drop is caused by us sourcing lower value cars and half of the drop is caused by us not having quite as many cars as we'd like. The benefits of that in terms of the balance sheet are obviously more cash, quicker stock turn, and broadly speaking, a more efficient balance sheet. Our target level for inventory is high, though. It's closer to $25 million. So you can kind of see that we are a bit light. Finance receivables are up slightly, and that's due to growth in premium lending volumes. The priorities remain for that book are really about rebuilding margin and quality receivables, and the growth that drops out is what we treat as a bonus essentially. Property, plant, and equipment are up due to the acquisition and development of new sites in Napier, Tauranga, and Christchurch. We finished a Tauranga development in October. We're on track to roll out 3 new branches in Tauranga between April and July next year. We're very excited about that. And we'll develop a commercial site in Napier over the next 2 to 3 months. So really pleased with how that rollout is playing out. And borrowings are up about $8 million, and that really reflects the growth in finance receivables. In terms of our funding mix, we created a new securitization warehouse in September of 2023, and that facility has amortized or paid down in line with what we predicted at that time. So that facility is down to $55-odd million by September '24. We're comfortable we've got capacity to support growth in Oxford over the next 6 to 12 months. And in corporate, we've got this committed branch expansion pipeline that is fully funded with available capacity out of the syndicate. So pretty comfortable with where debt levels are. And obviously, it's a much more enjoyable environment when interest rates are coming down. We have about 38% of our debt floating at the moment. So we start to see immediate benefits as [indiscernible] gets involved in the heavy lifting of cutting interest rates back to neutral or below. So yes, look forward to seeing how that plays out over the next 6 to 12 months. Back to you, Todd.

Great. Thanks, Aaron. Okay. We'll sort of rip through these slides reasonably quickly. So as Aaron was saying, auto retail revenue is down 6%, reflecting the lower-priced cars and low vehicle margins, and segment profits down 18% year-on-year as a result of that. I think the pleasing thing is market share has continued to grow and through that first half with BuyNow sales up 9% and wholesale auction sales up 6%. So that's a good result, and we know we're building our -- continuing to build our brand presence in the market. Our finance attach rate has dropped slightly as I think credit policies have tightened and Oxford is no exception to that. And also just affordability hurdles become more challenging for certain customers. Our BuyNow units have increased nicely. And pleasingly, we're seeing continued buy-in from our lease customers to channel more of their vehicles into that BuyNow channel and out of that wholesale auction channel, but still plenty of opportunity for us left in that part of our strategy. Our vehicle sourcing capability continues to improve. And you can see, obviously, the first half this year, we've sold more owned cars than last year, which is good to see. And we continue to acquire more cars through our local domestic channels. And yes, we've kind of talked about the margin impact, so I won't sort of cover that off. But pleasing to see that things have started to recover from a margin perspective, which is great. Damage and end-of-life vehicle volumes are down. And again, no surprise for us around that. So they're down 8% due to the absence of the one-off large weather event impact that we had in the first half last year. But you can still see that, yes, there's an underlying trend here of more cars being written off from the insurers. On construction and new branch plans, the projects in Christchurch are tracking really well. We're on time and on budget for all 3 of those projects, which is great to see. And we're continuing to see lots of property opportunity come to market. So we've got a number of live negotiations on new sites at the moment. And our conviction remains strong that we want to own as many of these key strategic sites as we can because that creates long-term value for all shareholders. As you will remember, we purchased 50% of My Auto Shop, and the initial sort of 8 weeks or so that we've had involved in that business has been very productive and very positive. So we've grown the team by 50%. So we've added techs in Hamilton, Tauranga, Wellington, and additional people in Auckland as well. And I would say our confidence is really building around what we can do with My Auto Shop and the impact that it could have on the group. So yes, our simple goal is to make vehicle repairs easier, and we're just really into the opportunity now. Yes. And the counter to the auto result is the result of finance, so revenue up 11% and segment profit up 59%. So we're starting to see signs of growth in that loan book again and certainly, originations in the last couple of months have been much better. And pleasingly, we're seeing really strong origination in that premium customer segment. So that's the best quality customer we can add, which is great to grow the book in that quality segment. And it's kind of no surprise that with our focus on quality borrowers, our arrears levels have outperformed the broader market with the auto loan market in New Zealand arrears running at 6.4%, the red line in our book running at 2.8%. And we also have just given you some sort of line of sight around hardships and things as well. So I mean, unsurprisingly, again, they've increased, but are still running at very low numbers compared to the number of active customers that we have, so less than 0.5% in hardship. The average credit scores of our new customers continue to increase, reflecting the high proportion of premium business, but also the affordability hurdles that we use to approve customers. So we're now into our fifth year of writing new business at credit scores higher than the market average, which puts us in a very, very strong position from a quality perspective. And the heavy lifting that we've done on pricing over the last 18 months has really paid off. Net interest margin has stabilized and has now returned to expansion with those rate headwinds turning into tailwinds, as Aaron was just describing. But we would expect the pace of recovery and NIM to be slower than the pace at which it came down. But good, it's coming -- but good to see the net interest margin starting to increase. One of the other things that we're really pleased about is the operating leverage that we've created in Oxford. And the team have done a huge amount of work on our loan approval systems and processes, resulting in much higher levels of auto approval. And the higher the level of auto approval, the much higher conversion to having that loan application paid out we get. So growing our book and premium customers gives us much better operating leverage as well. And you can see that through our cost-to-income ratio improving to 62% over last year. In insurance, we've seen revenue growth of 4% and profits up 8% in the first half. Gross written premium has been flat half-on-half and earned premium up slightly. Our risk pricing is becoming more layered, leading to improved claims ratios and just improving the overall quality of the portfolio, making sure that we're getting the right reward for the risk that we take. I think I want to call out the shining light of growth is the comprehensive motor vehicle insurance portfolio. So that's a product that we resell on behalf of Vero. So we don't underwrite comprehensive motor vehicle insurance. We just resell the Vero product. So that premium book now is at $35 million per annum and is growing at sort of circa 40% a year. And that's due to the new customers that we're adding, but we have a 90% plus renewal rate on those policies. So yes, it's a great business. So we don't underwrite the risk, but we just take an earn for every policy sold and renewed. And just one call out here that, as the interest rate cycle eases, that does become a headwind for insurance due to the sort of $60-odd million of insurance reserves that we've got invested in term deposits. So we would expect the investment earnings that we get off that money to reduce as interest rates come down. Claims continue to be well managed. And as you can see from the graph on the right, claims inflation has now stabilized, and we expect to see this kind of move down. In credit management, the recovery is definitely slower than what we expected it to be. Revenue up 2%, profits up 2% for the half. And although debt load is flat half-on-half, you can see that in the top graph, there's been a noticeable change in the quality. So we've got just under a 20% lift in our first referral debt. So that's debt that hasn't had another collection agency do any work on. So we're getting the first crack at it. And obviously, we want more of the first referral debt. Also the high-yielding SME debt load is up materially, and debt value collected is down slightly due to lower repayment amounts and the extended terms of some of those arrangements. We thought it was useful to just give some visibility around the number of debts that we have under payment arrangements. So you can see the number of payment arrangements are starting to build back to sort of towards pre-COVID levels, which is what we want to see. But there is no doubt that affordability challenges are resulting in lower and much longer settlement arrangements to address those outstanding debts. Current -- so now, thinking about the sort of broader market of New Zealand arrears, so data we get from Centrix, our credit bureau, nationwide arrear is still tracking above 2018 levels, so the highest have been for, I think it's 8 years now. So that trend is expected to continue worsening over the coming months and EC Credit is certainly well positioned to assist our customers with that challenge. We've called out a number of key challenges and risks over the last 2.5 years, and we feel the recession risk has now decreased now that we're into the interest rate easing cycle. And we're definitely more confident about trading conditions improving further as interest rates continue to drop over the next sort of 6 to 9 months. So yes, the risks sort of in the business are definitely reduced, we feel. And just to wrap up with a few comments on the sort of outlook. So yes, as we've talked about, we're in this build phase around branch development. So the next 18 months or 12 to 18 months are really about bringing those new Christchurch sites on stream and trying to uncover some more opportunities, which we're actively working on. Vehicle pricing has stabilized, which is great and certainly seeing lift in margins through the latter part of Q2 and Q3. And overall sales volumes are tracking very well and continue to track ahead of last year. Yes, finance is kind of more of the same for us. We definitely want to keep our discipline around quality. We're seeing the expected improved performance in FY '25 as a result of those lower-than-expected impairments and credit losses and improvements in interest margin, and we're seeing growth in origination into Q3. In insurance, earned premium holding up really well. Claims ratios are stable. And we have just signed a couple of new distribution arrangements, so one with New Zealand AA, which we're quite excited about and, obviously, we've got our direct sales ready to ramp up too. And in credit management, our payment bank is rebuilding as debt load increases from the tightening economic conditions and the results and impact on consumer arrears. So we're well positioned for that stage of the New Zealand credit cycle. And from a guidance perspective, we're just reaffirming the guidance that we gave at the annual meeting in September so that we expect to exceed our $50 million profit before tax goal for the full year. And yes, as Aaron outlined earlier, we'll pay at least $0.27 per share in terms of the dividend. Okay. So that's the end of the sort of formal part of the presentation. So I'll now open up for questions. So let's go to the top.

So Grant Lowe, I'll go to you first. So I'll just -- you should be able to unmute yourself now and fire away, Grant. Can you…

Well done guys on a good result. Just 2 or 3 from me just around the vehicle margin side of things. So you've got that chart in there, which shows vehicle margins coming back a bit. It looks like they've sort of gone from $1,000 per vehicle-ish in FY '24 to around $700 in the half. Can you just talk to how much of that is linked to selling lower price point vehicles and how much of it is sort of underlying margin pressure on same vehicle sales?

It's about half. Half is due to lower value vehicles, Grant, and the other half is really due to demand -- weak demand, particularly in that April to July period.

And just around -- like are there any sort of specific areas where you're seeing pressure on that -- and I appreciate things are picking up now, but any specific areas where you've seen pressure on that in terms of regionally or specific price points?

Definitely regionally, the Auckland and Wellington markets have been the most affected for, I think, probably obvious reasons around indebtedness in Auckland, in particular, household indebtedness. And in Wellington, it's a combination of that and the impact of the change of government. So the flip side of that is the regions have performed very strongly for us. The South Island has been quite a standout. So it has really been a mixed bag. But we are expecting to see a bit of a metro recovery with interest rate pressures on households starting to ease off a little.

And then just around the profile for receivables growth. So I didn't see any mention of the $65 million FY '28 target. But just in terms of the profile for getting to that, obviously, the receivables growth has been picking up a little bit, but it's been reasonably flat over the last couple of years. How do you see -- given your investment in various sites and the like, how do you see that profile tracking from here to get to your sort of FY '28 expected levels?

Yes. I mean we would expect that book to start growing. Well, it is growing now. And I don't think it's too demanding to expect 10% growth a year over the next couple of years out of that book, so $40 million to $50 million a year.

And then just in terms of the guidance, $50 million, you've just done $26.9 million, which at $50 million flat would be sort of around $23 million. Are there any specific areas where you see potential for any of the segments to go backwards? Obviously, things are starting to improve in the auto retail side of things. We expect interest rates to be a tailwind in finance. Conceivably, on the face of it, 27 times 2 equals 54. Tell me where I'm wrong.

Yes. I mean there's -- the business does have some seasonality, particularly in the auto business, December and January are almost half months because the country almost invariably shuts down for a couple or 3 weeks of that Christmas-New Year period. So typically, we have a slightly weaker second half because of that. So yes, it's generally not a straight double the first half results. And I don't expect that will be different this year. We're certainly expecting a better second half than the second half we had last year, but that will be the tune of 4% to 5%, similar to what we've seen in this first half, depending on how aggressive [indiscernible] is starting on Wednesday. But broadly speaking, a bunch of things that were quite strong headwinds in the last sort of 12 to 18 months have become tailwinds. So we're very confident about the $50 million target, and you can kind of read into that what you will. But I wouldn't express a degree of confidence and a doubling of the first half result in the second half, if you would like.

James Lindsay, I'll just unmute -- well, you can unmute yourself now.

Good to see the portfolio effect kicking in nicely. Three things for me, if I may. Just interested in -- you talked about sort of vehicle sourcing a little bit. It obviously looks like it's been a little bit on the light side. So maybe if you're able to just sort of add a little bit of comment to that, and just about how you're doing in sort of getting that consignment percentage up to sort of on yard retail.

Yes, I can quickly talk to sourcing, James. I think Todd pointed out that imports -- used imports from Japan are down quite significantly, and that is a reflection of increasing competition in the Japanese auctions, which has had a marginal effect on us, but certainly more significant impact on the New Zealand market and vehicles available for sale in the New Zealand market. So that's one factor. The other factor for us is that during the April to August period, we were pricing higher-value cars quite aggressively in that we really didn't want to own many of them unless it was at the absolute right money for us and…

Or not pricing.

Yes. So I mean, the line we draw is around about $20,000. And in the last 2 months, we've kind of released some of those shekels a little bit on the branches. So we're now much more confident buying cars in that sort of $20,000 to $40,000 price bracket because we've seen some green shoots of demand. And so we've got some more confidence around supply, albeit imports are going to be a problem and a particular problem for some of our competitors because that is the floating supply in the market, if you like. So quite confident in our position, quite confident that we've kind of been through a pricing adjustment through that April to July period, the market definitely fell, and so inventory values dropped at that time. Sort of, yes, super confident that we've come through that and the normal kind of spring lift in pricing is playing out. So from a supply perspective, yes, things seem to be a little bit easier domestically, a little bit harder from Japan is probably my summary.

Yes. And James, on that sort of wholesale transition, yes, I mean, we're sort of grinding it out is probably the best way of describing it. I mean obviously, the percentages aren't materially moving. We kind of -- yes, it's kind of inch by inch. I think we've had some good progress with some of the lease customers. You can see the bullet point there that we've shifted that BuyNow percentage of their stock from kind of 33% to 38%. But there's also more units flowing into that wholesale channel. So things like finance repos. So we do -- obviously, we sell a lot of repossessed vehicles for other finance companies. That volume is up 100% year-on-year. So that does not go into the BuyNow channel. That goes into the auction channel because it needs to be run through a kind of market [indiscernible] contestable process. So there's a few kind of counters that we don't have control over as well. But the things that we do have control over, I feel like we're making some good progress.

Just interested, I mean, obviously, you're doing a great job in picking up share in your segments. Just the public-to-public sort of transaction side of the business has picked up quite big share over the last 18 months. Just the economy? Or do you think that some of that will unwind as you start to see these green shoots?

Yes, for sure. I think that is a massive reflection of people having -- trying to buy lower-priced cars, and that tends to be where they source them from. So it's Trade Me, it's Facebook Marketplace, that is your kind of sub-5k segment.

And obviously, your arrears seem to be doing -- continue to track pretty well. Sort of your view about where sort of market arrears in auto should start peaking?

They'll peak when the unemployment rate peaks…

Yes.

…I think, James, which is people are saying is probably going to be the middle of next year. So yes, I mean, typically, arrears develop over time as a function of affordability and the biggest people have to affordability is their job. So yes, I'd expect they'll keep lifting until sometime around the middle of next year. And then they could drop quite quickly, which is what we've seen in past cycles is credit policies adapt to the environment that you're operating in. And everyone has been tightening their credit policies over the last sort of 18 months or so. So yes, I think they'll lift a bit further and then they'll actually drop quite sharply from the middle of next year, would be my guess, if you like.

And then last one quickly for me. Just obviously, good to see the progress so far in My Auto Shop. Just interested in your view about when the next sort of leg of option, can you uplift that 50% stake? And sort of what would be the triggers for that and timeframes?

It would be sort of -- it won't be for at least 24 months. Yes. So sort of, yes, past that time. It will be kind of in that 24- to 36-month kind of timeframe. So yes, there's a bit of water to flow into the bridge, but plenty of things for us to do in the meantime. And as I said before, James, the work that's going on at the moment is feeling very productive and genuinely beneficial to both organizations, which is awesome. Okay. Kieran, your turn.

A few of my questions have already gone, but I guess just to touch on Grant's question, you talked about 10% growth in the finance receivables book per annum over the next couple of years. And I think at the FY '24 result, you were sort of talking to about 7% growth in FY '25. Just based on the first half run rate, is it fair to say you expect a reasonable ramp-up in the second half? Or is this more kind of FY '26 onwards that you're expecting that receivables growth to ramp up?

It's a good question, Kieran. We're definitely seeing growth at the moment. Will we land at 7% at the end of the full year? Probably not. We might be closer to 5%, I would say.

Probably we're talking about the offset of the commercial sort of lending and…

Yes. Yes. I mean part of our kind of risk management is that we have steered away quite deliberately from some forms of commercial lending, particularly in the transport sector and forestry, anything that requires heavy vehicles, we have actually deliberately steered away from in the last sort of 12 months. So we've seen quite a sharp drop in that book. So at its peak in March -- or around March '22, that commercial book was $85 million. It's now in the sort of low 50s. And so where we've seen the offset is quite strong growth in consumer. So part of the unlock for growth for us over the next 6 months is that the commercial book will stabilize. We're sort of super happy lending on utes and vans, and light commercial vehicles, just not the heavy ones. So I think that commercial book will stabilize at around about the current levels, and that will mean that our continued growth in consumer will ultimately drive a quicker growing ledger. And yes, that's kind of our basic sort of thesis. We know that we're gaining market share in that premium segment, and we are deliberately targeting that with our pricing and with the enhancements to our system and ability to give quick answers to borrowers. So yes, super confident that the growth will materialize. It might not -- we might not get to that 7% growth by the end of March next year, but I think we'll be ballpark.

And then just in terms of the My Auto Shop acquisition, are you able to talk about your medium-term expectations of what that might contribute, and just whether you've got any other acquisitions on the radar?

Yes, happy to talk for a start about My Auto Shop. So based on what we've sort of seen and the My Auto Shop guys have seen overseas, particularly in the States, mobile repairs and servicing are a massive growth segment. We currently have about 9% of the used car market. If we were to get to 2% of the repairs and servicing market, that would be revenues of between $60 million and $70 million. So that kind of relatively modest medium-term target delivers quite a price for us in terms of revenue growth and profitability. Are we looking at anything else at the moment? There are increasing numbers of people coming to us with new car opportunities, which we are reluctant -- quite reluctant to pursue just given the volatility in that segment. Our kind of growth engines remain organic, remain extending the footprint, building out our retail footprint, particularly in Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch, but also some selected geographies that we don't currently operate from, and then using that to leverage growth in Oxford and DPL Insurance. So still really an organic strategy. My Auto Shop happens to fit so well within our ecosystem that it was an opportunity that we couldn't pass up. But largely, I think we're still an organic growth story.

And I guess just with that 2% target, I know it's sort of not kind of formally in the pack or anything, but do you have an expected timeframe around when you might be able to get to that? Or is it just too early to say?

It's still early days, Kieran. I think, we put in the pack that we've grown the number of techs. We see a kind of geographic rollout of that business underpinned by our branch network, the Turners Auto branch network. We haven't really started leveraging the significant customer databases that we have in Turners Auto and Oxford and in DPL. So it could happen quickly or it could take 5 years. It's hard to really tell. We know we've got all the building blocks in place though. And now it's just a matter of execution for us and the guys at My Auto Shop.

And then just last question is around insurance attachment rates. Are you seeing any change just with the current macro conditions or any kind of green shoots there in terms of improved attachment rates?

Pretty steady, Kieran, is how I would describe them. Yes. No great change down or up. Grant Lowe, do you want to ask some more questions? Or if you just still got your hand up?

Sorry about that. I neglected to put it down.

All right. Okay. Is there any other questions we can answer for people? You can either type into the Q&A if you feel more comfortable that way, or you can raise your hand and I can unmute you. Or you can get in touch with Aaron or I after the call if you've got something that you need answered. Okay. Well, it looks like we have exhausted the questions that people have. So we will leave you to get on with your day. Thank you for your interest. And if there's anything else that we can answer subsequent to this, please get in touch with us. And we'll see you all soon. Thank you very much.

Thanks, everyone.