UCB SA (UCB) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, and good afternoon. Welcome to the 39th JPMorgan Healthcare Conference. I'm Richard Vosser, European pharma analyst at JPMorgan, and it's my great pleasure to introduce Jean-Christophe Tellier, CEO of UCB, to this session. Before I hand over to Jean-Christophe, I'd like to remind everyone that they can ask a question at any time by using the Q&A function on the website. And then at the Q&A appropriate time, I will ask that question for you. With that, I'd like to say thanks very much, Jean-Christophe, for joining us. Welcome. Jean-Christophe, over to you.

Thank you, Richard. Good morning, good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining this presentation. It is my pleasure to share with you some insights about UCB and where we are. So if we move to Slide 2, you can see the classical disclaimer and safe harbor. But I would like to go to Slide 3 now because I think it's fair to say that 2020 has been, for UCB, a very important year in terms of executions, accomplishments and what we had been able to deliver in our transformational journey towards our ambitions to create the maximum patient value possible despite the disruptions linked to the pandemic and COVID-19. Within many geographies, COVID-19 has exacerbated the tensions around economic inequality, access to health care and social justice. And so I think that now more than ever, connecting what we do, being able to ensure that individually and collectively, our values, our activities, what we aim and our sense of purpose needs to be well connected to each other. And that's the reason of this slide actually is to remind us that creating value for patients, if it's isolated from the rest, doesn't make a lot of sense. And if it doesn't make a sustainable value for every stakeholder, it's also not very impactful. So you see on the right side of this slide what we are aiming for and how we start, and I would like just to comment a little bit on this. You see on the center the patient value ambitions that we have. And we translate these ambitions around 3 elements: the unique outcome, which is a classical one for an innovation and for an innovative biopharmaceutical company, right, to try to deliver medicine that can provide unique outcome for patients. But we think that our ambitions need to go further and not just on the delivery on unique outcome. We need to build and to create the best possible patient experience because we need the patients to not only take the drugs but make sure that the drugs allow the patients to live the life that they want to live and not to be limited by any way by the disease. And of course, in order to do that, we need to ensure that the patients who need the drug, who could not be treated otherwise, can have access to the drug. So this value for the patients around these 3 components of the ambition are the core of what we are doing. And we do that in a way if we are also at the same time able to deliver value for our employees, and value for employees meaning taking care of them, taking care of their well-being, making sure that they are in the best possible environment to be at their best from a diversity, equity and inclusion standpoint. It's also -- of course, the conclusion of all of that should create value for our shareholders and value for the planet and value for the society as a whole. And this is how we want to integrate sustainability into what we are doing. And I think, as I said, it was even more important during the COVID pandemic to really reconnect what we were doing with this framework of purpose. And if I go to the Slide 4, you have seen this slide before, right? This is the slide that I've been presenting at the conference for years now. Objective was the different phases from grow and prepare to accelerate and expand to breakthrough and lead. So the slide has been the same for many years. What is new this year is the bottom part of this slide, which is the COVID pandemic and what we did and how we faced and we managed the pandemic. And I want to comment a little bit on the 4 elements that you see here, which was the 4 pillars which was important for us to address during the pandemic. The first one is about our employees, making sure that we take care of them, making sure that we provide an environment which is safe, providing to them ability to be resilient in this phase where all of us, we have been exposed to a unique environment where suddenly, we were disconnected from our colleagues, from the people we are used to connect with and we were remote as we are today and moving quickly into this virtual environment. But there was also people, of course, from our organization that had to go back to work even during the pandemic. Creating an environment which was safe for them was our utmost priorities in the manufacturing sites, in the labs, in other areas because it was important for us, and that's the second pillar of what we did during the COVID-19 pandemic, it was very critical for us that we took care of our patients, making sure that the patients suffering from epilepsy, from Parkinson's disease, immuno-inflammation, all of the patients that we used to serve with our portfolio, making sure that they cannot have to suffer from any potential of -- disruption of their care. And so that was the second element. And we are pleased that we have been able to deliver on that in all of the geographies even the ones that was most impacted by the pandemic. The third pillar of that is taking care of our communities and supporting our communities because taking care of our people, making sure that we are able to deliver what we are aiming for, which is a product for the patients, I think from an environmental standpoint, it was very important during the pandemic that we also take care of our communities. And so we did a lot of things that normally we don't do like producing [ alcoholic ] gel, like doing some diagnostic with a shift from our PCR machine instead of doing some research for us, helping the communities from a diagnostic standpoint, putting in place some funds and some donations in order to help communities, but also paying our most fragile vendors very quickly so they can avoid to be out of cash. I mean all of these small things that all together makes a lot of sense in trying to help the communities to go through this period. We created also a fund, which is several millions today, to help the most fragile part of the population because as I said, the COVID-19 pandemic have increased the social inequity and we need to take care of that. And the final pillar of the COVID-19 was the contribution to science. Even though we are not directly active into antiviral drugs or vaccine ourselves, we wanted to help to contribute to the science. And we did in different ways. First, offering our CMC capacities to Celltech biotech, which was researching antibodies against the virus, and we did that in Belgium, leveraging our CMC capacity that we had in the U.K. Participating into studies. We have in our portfolio zilucoplan, which is potentially impactful in the ARDS syndrome. And so we are testing it in Belgium, the U.K. and in the U.S. with very innovative adaptive trials currently. And then, of course, there was also this Moonshot COVID initiative sponsored by Microsoft. We have been the first company -- pharma company to participate to this initiative to leverage artificial intelligence for compounds potentially active in COVID-19. So on top of our regular agenda, we have been, as you can see, very active during the pandemic. And I do feel that was helpful to reconnect with all sense of purpose. And that's not just something which was on the side of what we do. I think it's essential to what we do. And if we have been able to deliver so much during the year and if we have been able to make sure that our people was very resilient and very active during the year, I think it's also linked to what we have done to manage the pandemic. So if I'm moving back now to Slide #5 and be a little bit more concrete about what we have delivered during this year, I would like to illustrate that with 3 buckets. The first one is the resilience of our core products and the ability to continue to enjoy for 6 years in a row a significant growth rate that allow us to continue to invest in our pipeline and to be able to ensure future growth. And the core products is, of course, Cimzia and Vimpat and Briviact and also Keppra, [ plus ] the 2 launches that we have recently done: one, Evenity with our partner Amgen; and the second is Nayzilam that we have launched in the U.S. here in December 2019 in cluster repetitive seizures. So that first pillar is a very essential one because without the growth, we cannot invest more and we cannot continue to develop the pipeline. So that's the first bucket of what we have delivered in 2020 and what we are currently delivering. The second pillar is the strengthen of the portfolio, and you can see here a few examples of the development of our portfolio. And of course, we are very pleased with the result of bimekizumab in the Phase III, and we'll come back on that in a minute. We have acquired zilucoplan, an anti-complement; Staccato Alprazolam in acute seizures. And we have now 4 different assets in 7 different Phase III programs. So as you can see, for a company our size, it's a very sizable pipeline to continue to evolve, and we are very pleased with that. The third bucket is the development of our strategic agenda. And if you think about, as you remember, when I said we want to develop either acquisitions or partnership that strengthen our pipeline, that strengthen our technology platform or can be a complement to what we have, and I think that you can see here an illustration of that. From an acquisition standpoint, the acquisition of Ra Pharma gives us access to zilucoplan, an anti-C5 compound that can complement what we have in myasthenia gravis, in particular, with our anti -- internal anti-FcRn. With Engage Therapeutics, we have acquired Staccato Alprazolam, which is a nice complement to what we have in the acute epilepsy treatment where Nayzilam was for the cluster repetitive seizure and Staccato is more for the acute treatment of one seizure and helping our patients potentially to stop the seizures within less than 2 minutes with a very innovative device that allowed the patients to be -- to inhale the active component of the drug with a normal [ breath ]. The third element of the acquisition is Handl Therapeutics, and this is more from a technology platform and a discovery standpoint. So you see here the illustration of the 3 components of our strategic activity, right? One is getting new compounds that fit with the portfolio while expanding what we have through Ra Pharma. The second piece is getting a compound that adds to what we have already, epilepsy with Staccato. And then the third component is strengthening our technology platform. And in terms of partnership, which is another component of the strategic capability that we want to continue to develop, we want to, through these partnerships, to continue to focus and concentrate on where we can deliver more value. So there is different aspects on that. One is the one that we have signed with Genentech on our anti-tau antibody in Alzheimer's disease. Alzheimer's is a very important disease, very complex one. We knew that we didn't have the capacity to do it ourselves. So we are very pleased to have been able to engage and to sign this partnership with Roche. It's also a very strong signal and recognition of the quality of the science that we have at UCB and the quality of the innovation, and it's also a best possible way for the patients to get as soon as possible a solution for their disease. The Ferring partnership is a different one actually. It's consistent with our focus in rheumatology and in dermatology within the immuno-inflammations area. And we know -- you know that in the U.S., we have a Crohn indication for Cimzia. Now we have signed a partnership with Ferring, and so Ferring will do for us the promotion of Cimzia in GI and in the indications of the Crohn's disease, which allow us to refocus our activities and our investments towards dermatology and rheumatology, which is, of course, very much needed in the preparation of the launch of bimekizumab. And Lacerta, it's complement with Handl Therapeutics. It's the acquisitions and partnerships in gene therapy in order to strengthen our portfolio there. So discovery platforms, developments -- development and acquisitions on what we are currently doing, strategic acquisitions to strengthen our pipeline and our platforms and also partnership that allow us to maintain and increase the concentration on the key priorities. So if I move to the Slide 6 now, all of that has one purpose, right, which is the objective is to continue to create the maximum value that we can for patients. And we aim to lead in 5 specific patient populations by 2025. The first one, which is an historic one for UCB, is the patients suffering from partial onset and focal epileptic seizures, and we see here the development of the portfolio that will allow us to do so. The second is the leadership in psoriatic arthritis with the portfolio that we have with Cimzia and [indiscernible] bimekizumab. The third one is the woman of childbearing age suffering from immuno-inflammation and epilepsy because we have with Cimzia and also with Keppra unique ability to differentiate from other compounds there. The fourth population is fragility fracture and osteoporosis-related fracture with Evenity. I think that we have a unique opportunity there and a unique product that can provide very significant benefit for the patient there. And then the last one is with our portfolio with zilucoplan that complement an anti-FcRn. We are very well equipped to lead in this patient population of patients suffering from myasthenia gravis by 2025. So this is what we are aiming for, make sure that we are focused enough, make sure that we are able to continue to deliver there. And this is, of course, supported, and you see that in the Slide #7, this is supported by our very rich development pipeline. Once again, I think that for a company of our size, it's pretty significant to see that we have now 10 different assets in clinical programs. And I mentioned the 4 that we have already in Phase III. And these 4, which is, of course, bimekizumab, zilucoplan, rozimab and dapirolizumab, the partnership with Biogen that we have in lupus, will be [ complementary in the year ] with Staccato Alprazolam and the starting of the Alzheimer's disease with our partner Roche. So you see the pipeline year-after-year evolve very positively. And so let me -- I would like now to come back on the Slide #8 on bimekizumab because we have presented the results of our unprecedented program earlier on. And what we are very pleased with, with bimekizumab is a good illustration of our patient value strategy. When we say we want to be closer to human biology, when we said that we want to connect the patient to the science and then being able to translate this science into differentiated medicine and going back to the patient, I do feel that bimekizumab is a perfect example of that. Initially, it was the observation that the joints of patients suffering from psoriatic arthritis not only had a higher level of IL-17A but also a high level of IL-17F. So that was the initial scientific insight which guide us to try to engineer a monoclonal antibody with the ability to have a dual activity towards the 2 cytokine and being an anti-IL-17A and at the same time with IL-17F and being able to then translate that into the clinical program to demonstrate differentiation. For us, it was unprecedented to be able to build 4 clinical trials in Phase III, one versus placebo and 3 versus standard of care with different products from different classes and to build these clinical trials towards superiority. And all of them have delivered on both primary and all secondary end points superiority, which put us in a very good position, I think, to deliver the best possible value for patients suffering from psoriasis. And I've said in the past that I would like everyone to look at bimekizumab to look at it through 4 different angles. The first one is the spectrum of the disease. We know that psoriasis, psoriatic arthritis, axial spondyloarthropathy and HS are connected together. And in particular, psoriasis and psoriatic arthritis, 30% of patients suffering from psoriasis will suffer from psoriatic arthritis. So it's very important for physicians and for patients to be able to be confident and to trust a drug that could be at the same time provide relief for the skin as well as for the joints and not be just one out of the 2. So the first angle to look at the results is to look at the spectrum of the disease that an asset can deliver. The second aspect is the speed of onset. And you may argue that for a chronic disease, it's not so important. I will, on the contrary, argue that it is very important and particularly for a dermatological disease where you cannot hide the disease. Our objective is making sure that the patients forgot about this disease and can have normal life. Well, you need to make sure that as soon as possible, you have a clear skin. And so the speed of onset of actions, even for a chronical disease, is very important. With bimekizumab, it's in the program that we have disclosed so far. Within one dose, you reach already after 4 weeks the level of 20 -- 75%, 75% of the patients who reach PASI 75. So this is very important because the patients see immediately [ or quite ] immediately the impact of the drug on the disease. So that's helpful to build trust, confidence into the treatment as well as adherence and engagement of the patients to continue the treatment. The third component and the third angle to look at the results is the depth of the response. And here also you may argue that while the difference between 90% and 100% of clearance of the skin, it's almost the same thing, well, it's not. It's significantly not. The [ PASI ] -- and particularly when it's present into the face or into a visible part of the body, you can have a very limited area, which is between 90 and 100, and that makes a huge difference. And here, with the result that we have communicated, it's unprecedented. PASI 100, which means the skin completely clear from any type of lesions or psoriasis, have been achieved for more than 6 patients out of 10 within 16 weeks. And then the last pillar is the durability of the treatment. And here, it's also very important to build trust with the drug, right? We don't want to get something [ that suddenly ] suffer and stop. And what you have here is that 7 patients out of 10 after 1 year have still reached the PASI 100. So you move from 6 to 7, so you get the durability. So this is what you get here. I would like to move now to Slide 9 because I mentioned all of this benefit. But I think it's fair to say that during last year, everyone from every type, everywhere in the stakeholders' [ mapping ] that have seen this data have been very impressed with this data. But of course, and if you move to Slide 10, what we want to get is not just the results clinically, the numbers, not just the people that react on it, but making sure that the patients get the benefit. And a picture speaks louder than any words, and you see here the ability to illustrate what I have mentioned with these patients. And in the end, the patient is controlled, don't have any psoriasis anymore and so can have a good life. So you see our objective, making sure that we continue to deliver differentiated medicine through innovative science and translate this science into clinical development. In Slide 11, I would like to close my presentations on 2 different elements also where we are working upon, which are a little bit new and it's one of the first times that we would like to comment on that. I mentioned already through the Handl Therapeutics deal and the Lacerta partnership that we are adding the gene therapy into our platform of discovery. We think it's an important platform for the future. We want to make sure that we are developing internal capabilities into scientific platform that can help us to continue to get closer to the cure of a chronic disease for the patients, and this is what we think gene therapy can do. And so that's the reason why we have included that into what we are currently active on in research. On Slide #12, of course, the COVID-19 had also accelerated our digital transformation, but we didn't wait until the pandemic to be active into the digital transformation. And so we were happy, in a way, to have started that several years ago because at the end, yes, we need to accelerate this transformation. The pharma industry as a whole, I think, is not really an industry we have been very advanced into this digital transformation. So we are probably more in the beginning of the journey. But I think COVID has been an accelerator for a lot of different area, and it needs to be implemented across the organization. And so it's all about the people. And a few examples of what we are currently doing, and it's not exhaustive, but it's just an illustration to give you the sense a little bit of what we are currently doing and you see that in the Slide #13. For us, the digital business transformations will go across the value chain, from research to development to manufacturing to commercialization. It is a very important element, I mentioned, and it's the first partnership that you see here, with Microsoft in research, the COVID Moonshot initiative. We have been able to do in a few days what otherwise would have been able to be done only in few months. So this is an acceleration of what we are doing. It's also an ability to answer new questions and to accelerate the ability to discover and identify new targets, which is also very important. In development, it's critical to bring the study to the patients instead of bringing the patients to the study and making sure that we are, by doing these transformations, doing faster and better and modernizing with more accuracy what we aim to do. And in the COVID phase, ability to transfer already into a digitalized platform and clinical trial has been very helpful to maintain the patients outside of the hospital and trying to manage the clinical trial from home. Manufacturing, distribution, we have been able to partner with -- and particularly in China at the very beginning of the pandemic because in China, the patients need to go to the hospital to get their treatment. And now with these type of partnerships, we are able to distribute and help the patients directly from home. And from a commercial standpoint, making sure that we strengthen and build a better patient experience is a very important one. So you see some of the partnership in the lower part of the slide like with Microsoft, with Aetion. And Aetion is a partnership where we can better leverage real-world evidence and provide out-of-the-real-world evidence ability to demonstrate the value that what we are creating. doc.ai is an artificial intelligence. Ali Health and Cinkate are in China, the partnership that we have. And you may have seen this morning that we have invested into the creation of a new company, Nile, which is a platform that potentially will better connect the stakeholders, the patients and the physicians in epilepsy. We are piloting that now in 2 states, Massachusetts and Michigan, and that will go public later on. So you do see that all of these transformations create a better ability to fulfill our vision and to make sure that we can have a better outcome of what we do, better resource allocations, acceleration of timing and speed and lowering the level of cost that continue to help us to invest more in order to create more solutions and more differentiation for the patients. And my last slide, Slide #14, and that reconnect with the first one that I mentioned to you. I think that nowadays, it's even more important to make sure that we continue to connect our purpose with everything we do. That's helpful not only to be more successful, not only to have a higher likelihood to have a more differentiated pipeline, but it's also fueling the energy and making sure that we are helping patients, society and different stakeholders. And with that, Richard, I hand over back to you, and we are ready now -- clear for questions, I guess. Thank you very much.

Thanks, Jean-Christophe. Excellent. Just a reminder to people, if you would like to ask a question, please submit your questions. Maybe one from me, and just going back to something that you said. You've got 4 assets in 7 Phase III trials. There's a lot of R&D spend right now, and you've got the bimekizumab launch coming up. So a lot on your plate. Maybe we can sort of think about how you've also got a margin target of 31% by '22. Maybe you could just dimensionalize how we should think about your spend in big picture terms for the next few years and...

Yes. Yes. Thank you, Richard. You're absolutely right. It's a journey. That's the reason why I started by mentioning that 2020 had been a very important step towards our transformation. What you see here is the outcome of many years of, in a sense, of preparation, which was in the making. But I think there are a few principles that maybe could be helpful for you to keep in mind. One is we want to limit the numbers of populations we are directly active in. And so we are very careful about making sure that everything we do, we understand exactly what will be the consequences of these investments and making sure that these investments are built under -- with an infrastructure that we have or that we can develop, but we are very conscious of that. And you have seen 2 illustrations of that, right? I mean the partnership that we have with Ferring and with Roche and Genentech is a perfect illustration of that. AD is too heavy for us, too complex. We prefer Roche to manage that. The GI was, I don't want to say, was not strategic for us anymore. We have just a presence in an indication in few countries. So we were very pleased to find Ferring, which is a very reliable partner that will take care of that for us so we can concentrate on what is the most important for us, which is rheumatology and dermatology. So yes, we have a lot on our plates, but we are constantly evaluating and allocating our resource to not only what makes sense from a scientific standpoint or from a value standpoint, but also thinking about what we can absorb, what we can manage today and phasing that over time, which allow us, of course, which is the third element which is important there on top of the focus and the allocation of resource is also making sure that we fuel that with the growth of the company. So managing the growth of the company, making sure that we are -- we can optimize that growth and give us some space so we can reinvest. Yes, we are at the high end of the competitions and we have -- always have been. Our investments in R&D, it's relatively high. But it's not an end. It's an enabler, right? We are also very disciplined in trying to make sure that we are allocating our resource towards the part of the portfolio that really have the potential to create the maximum value. And if it's not there, then we are stopping the program or we are reallocating the resource very quickly. So it's a balance between the optimization of the resource allocation, the push for the growth in order to create space for us to reinvest and making sure that we are vigilant and disciplined on the investments, not to create new infrastructure that will create -- that will change this balance.

Excellent. One area you touched on was the COVID pandemic and what you've done. Maybe I could ask about sort of the impact on your business. I suppose I'm thinking about the -- one of the launches. It's been tough to do launches this year, tougher than normal. Things have had to be relearned. So just your experience of trying to do that with Evenity, how has that gone? And maybe more generally sort of -- first half, you weren't really affected by COVID. People take Cimzia. They need to. People definitely need to take epilepsy products. So just maybe those 2 areas.

I think you've covered it quite well, right? I mean there may be a few dimensions you need to keep in mind. First, in your portfolio, what is the part of product which is we are already well-established and product by which the growth need to recruit new patients because you are in the very early phase of the life of the product. And it's -- there is no doubt that the product which are at the earlier stage have been more impacted by the pandemic because by nature, it's difficult for new patients -- or it was more difficult for new patients to go and see physicians. Actually, between the first and the second wave in Europe when we had some feedback from the physician, all of the physicians told us the same story, which means that when it was reopened after the spring and during the summer, they see -- they saw patient which was much more severe than they classically see for the first patients even in RA or in psoriatic arthritis, for example, because people have waited. And it was new. [ They didn't know ] what they have. But they were anxious, and they didn't want to go to the hospital. So yes, we have seen a decline in the ability of -- to get new patients even in chronic diseases. For the other one, we have seen a little bit of stocking during the first phase because they wanted to make sure that they get sufficient treatment at home and they didn't want to go back to the hospital or to the pharmacy. So we have seen that a little bit during the first part of the year. It has been reduced, and we don't see that anymore during the second half of the year. There is a second element, which is -- and so from that standpoint, yes, Evenity in Europe suffered because we were planning to launch Evenity in the middle of the pandemic in Germany to start with. And so by nature, yes, the volume of the patients was lower. But we are still very positive of Evenity because the underlying value of the product and the need is still there. Just one patient out of 5 is treated today after a first fragility fracture. But there is also a third dimension that I would like you to consider, which is what is the type of the disease that you want to treat, right? And we mentioned -- I mentioned Evenity and fragility fracture and osteoporosis. It's -- I think it's fair to say that patients suffering from osteoporosis, sometimes they don't see themselves with a severe disease. And so it's even sometimes easier for them to wait until we will get out of that. On the other hand, here in the U.S., we have launched Nayzilam in December 2019, so just before the pandemic. But here, Nayzilam is a treatment for cluster of repetitive seizures, which is that the patients have no choice. When you suffer from repetitive seizures, you need to go as quickly as possible at a hospital and you need to have a treatment that control your seizure quickly so you can go back home faster. So we have seen a little bit less of a challenge with new patients for Nayzilam because the disease is such that you need to be treated anyway.

Excellent. And maybe on bimekizumab, it's a key product. You have had much experience with Cimzia coming slightly behind other agents and trying to get into the market with a product that was maybe less differentiated, if I can say it like that. So what are the learnings from that Cimzia that you can apply, if you can, to bimekizumab and the launch?

Yes. Thank you, Richard. First of all, we don't make that specialty. We do not aim to launch products. It's not something that we want to replicate. But you're right. First of all, I think what we have learned with Cimzia is that differentiation matters. And so it's not because you are late in a class, and for Cimzia, we are the fifth anti-TNF on the marketplace, if you have something different and if you can link these differentiations to a meaningful clinical advantage for the patient, because there is differentiation and differentiation in a sense, that's important even if very -- in a very competitive market and in a market where people think that they are well-deserved, right, and they are well-served by the current offering. And on Cimzia, for example, what was very important for us? I mean the first element that we put together was the predictability, the ability to make sure that if after 12 weeks you are not controlled, then it's better to change. I mean it may look trivial, but it's much more important than it is because once again, patients, physicians need to trust their treatment, and the predictability is an important one. The lack of placenta transfer. And so the ability for a woman of childbearing age to be reassured that they can be treated even though they are pregnant or they are planning to have a pregnancy, I think, is a very important patient value element. And sometimes the market do not recognize that, but it's a very important element. So differentiation is key: differentiation with what you bring, differentiation because of what you are and differentiation also from an indication standpoint, right? I mean with Cimzia, despite the fact that we are the fifth anti-TNF, we are the first and only anti-TNF with an indication to non-radiographic axSpA. Frankly, we should not be the one with this indication. I mean the leaders who are ahead of us have plenty of time to develop this indication. However, they did not, and we did. And because of that, we are still today the only anti-TNF with this indication, and it's an important element of growth for us. And it's also an element of -- defense element versus biosimilars or other [ products ]. So differentiation is critical. What we're trying to do with bimekizumab is instead of bringing differentiation after launch, we are bringing differentiations before. And that's what we have learned is that differentiation matters, and if you can bring these differentiations at the early stage, it's even better. So it was unprecedented for us. I think it's very rare that you arrive and engage the discussion with stakeholders, the payers, the PBMs, the physicians, the patient community with a product where you have already 3 direct comparison and superiority versus standard of care. So it's not an hypothesis for the future. It is a fact for today. So differentiation matters. We are here talking about patients' lives. So it's important that whatever the system is, the system need to secure the patient that they can have access to the best possible care. And I think in particularly in developed countries and in the country which is the most advanced, it would be a shame if the system does not allow the product that can deliver the best care to the patients who need it. So we are pleased with the differentiation we have been able to demonstrate. Once again, it's linked to a scientific hypothesis. It's not out of random. We are very happy, contrary, of Cimzia and to have been able to demonstrate this differentiation ahead of the launch. And we are now working with all of the different stakeholders to make sure that this value can be recognized at the level that we think is important for the patient.

And just in the last minute, and further differentiation, hopefully, to come at the end of this year with -- or next with -- in psoriatic arthritis and ankylosing spondylitis as well.

Definitely. Because as you may remember, the first insight that we got about the [ F ] story was linked to psoriatic arthritis. So it was even not connected with psoriasis. So hopefully, we'll be able to continue to confirm this differentiation later this year with this new indication. Absolutely.

Perfect. We're at the top of 40 minutes. So I'd like to say thank you very much to Jean-Christophe, Sandrine [ and Antje ] for joining us. Everyone, have a good day.

Thank you, Richard. Thank you, everyone. Have a good day.