Ultragenyx Pharmaceutical Inc. (RARE) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary
September 16, 2020
Earnings Call Speaker Segments
Tazeen Ahmad
analystGood afternoon, everyone. Thank you for joining us. I'm Tazeen Ahmad. I am one of the SMID biotech analysts here at Bank of America. It is my pleasure to introduce our next presenting company, Ultragenyx Pharmaceuticals. Speaking for Ultragenyx today is Emil Kakkis, President and CEO. Dr. Kakkis is the founder of Ultragenyx. He founded the company in 2010 to focus on developing rare and ultra-rare disease therapeutics. The company went public in January 2014, and today does have a diverse portfolio of approved therapies and product candidates aimed at addressing diseases with high-unmet medical need and a clear biology for treatment. Emil? Hello. Thanks for joining us today.
Emil Kakkis
executiveThanks for having me, Tazeen. Happy to be here.
Tazeen Ahmad
analystSo for those on the webcast who may not be as familiar with Ultragenyx, maybe we could spend a couple of minutes providing a brief overview for the company, some recent highlights, and then we can go into specifics of future catalysts, if that's okay.
Emil Kakkis
executiveSure. Happy to do that. As you noted, we were founded 10 years ago. And in our 10th year now, we've achieved our third and fourth drug approval, and that makes us a company with 4 approvals in the first 10 years of our existence. The first program approved a couple of years ago, Crysvita for XLH, was followed this year by an indication for tumor-induced osteomalacia. In addition, we have an enzyme therapy for MPS VII called Mepsevii. And this year, in June, we also got an approval for a drug called Dojolvi for long-chain fatty acid oxidation disorders. All these disorders are metabolic. The Crysvita and TIO are bone endocrine type disorders. And Mepsevii and Dojolvi are for inborn error type diseases. So our areas -- those are core areas for the company with the 4 programs. Commercially, we're launching in the U.S. for those. And we also have a global commercial organization launching some of those products elsewhere, depending on where we have the rights. In addition to that, we have a building gene therapy franchise with 2 programs reading out data, 1 for GSDIa and 1 for OTC, ornithine transcarbamylase. And those programs will read out more data later in the year as well. And we're heading into the clinic with Wilson disease gene therapy as well. Finally, in other early pipeline, we do have a program in partnership with GeneTx on Angelman and ASL that is currently in the clinic and reading out data early next year. Combined in the commercial with all the pipeline assets, we will have a very rich second half as well as first half of '21 and well positioned as a rare disease company, both with growing revenue, crossing more than $100 million last year, growing to perhaps $1 billion in the next 5 years. So we're at a great point in the history of any company, which is making the traction commercially and also continuing to build pipeline. So that's our story right now. I am happy to answer any of your questions.
Tazeen Ahmad
analystWell, perfect. Thank you for the overview. So one thing that would be timely is to talk about COVID maybe for a few minutes. Can you specifically talk about the impact on overall operations, specifically maybe on the current launches underway for the Dojolvi and FAOD and Crysvita for TIO?
Emil Kakkis
executiveI think COVID's impact on commercial is certainly one that would be greatest concern. Fortunately for us, many of the aspects of our programs have allowed us to sustain products and continue to grow them despite the COVID situation. For Crysvita, in particular, more than 80% of the patients were getting treated at home from the beginning, based on our plan to be the most convenient treatment location for patients. And therefore, as institutions shut down, we did not have as significant of an issue to manage. What we did in the beginning of the Crysvita launch was have our patient services group call individually all patients on drug to try to find out their particular situation, their fears or concerns and to start dealing with those issues, were they concerned about a nurse coming to their home, do they have an institution that might be closed in a situation where they're on a Medicaid supported program. In any case, we found solutions with them, whether it's self-injection, a new site of care, a different nurse situation, whatever it was -- and kept the number of patients that might be not getting treated to a minimum, and that was really important and proactive activity. We've had a slowdown in the number of start forms from the pre-COVID era. We've started to build that back up, but it is difficult to do promotion virtually, and we're adapting as our doctors who are on the receiving end of our promotion. Dojolvi launch has gone well so far. Fortunately, for us, we're very familiar with those doctors, even inborn error doctors, about 160 centers. Because of that, they know the drug from the trials as well as the compassion use programming we have put forth. And because of Mepsevii and our gene therapy programs that makes it easier for us to do virtual promotion because of who we are, and they've met with us before. That program is going well so far. We still believe that Dojolvi will be a slow build. It will not be an instant launch like most rare disease programs. But we're excited about the potential of Dojolvi's added into our portfolio. Tumor-induced osteomalacia is going well as well. It's relatively small. It won't be a big add to the Crysvita program, but we'll add additional scripts as we head to the end of the year. So overall, COVID certainly provided some slowdown in our ability to promote and grow products, but we're able to sustain the people on and not lose ground, which I think was very important. And with all that put together, we put -- we maintained our Crysvita guidance of $125 million to $140 million for this year.
Tazeen Ahmad
analystOkay. In relation to that, how are you thinking about preparedness if a second wave of COVID occurs in the fall and winter?
Emil Kakkis
executiveWell, we expect there will be a surge. There's already sort of a surge happening just because of opening. I think what's happening now, you're starting to see a little bit more of a region-by-region management as opposed to global management. I think we'll have to consider continuing to do a lot of virtual promotion and virtual ambassador programs and other programs, speaker programs as a major way of moving ahead. We're also shifting and improving our digital footprint as well to accommodate that situation. I don't think that a spike or surge late in the year is going to have a substantial impact on the commercial business. I think it might have more impact on the clinical development programs where sites need to be open to enroll patients and where conflicting requirements for doctors treating sick people versus doing trials might become an issue, particularly in institutions where restricted rules get applied. So for right now, commercial, I'm less concerned, I think clinical development may be an area where there's still some delays. And we've already -- our program is already pushed out a little bit because of those delays in execution of what's needed to do clinical development.
Tazeen Ahmad
analystOkay. Now a minute ago, you did say that you feel confident in maintaining Crysvita guidance for the year, $125 million to $140 million. Maybe can you talk through some of the metrics that are giving you confidence that range is the right range despite some of the potential pitfalls that can occur?
Emil Kakkis
executiveWell, if we look at the number of patients we've got on reimbursed therapy from the build early in the year because late last year, we had a pronounced effort to surge the number of patients on drug, which helped build up the number. So in the first quarter before COVID hit, we had built up our numbers. We feel pretty comfortable as long as we maintain our base and have the current growth rate, relatively slower growth rate. We're still well within the range. And I think it's just a matter of having done some work late last year, early in the year that kind of gave us an edge on staying within the range. Of course, if the number of new starts fell, that would be a problem. But even with some limitation on these starts, we should be able to be hit our range. So we think it's -- the fact that we were kind of ahead of the curve at the end of the year, early in the year that put us in a better position to manage the down movement of starts and some loss of patients temporarily in Q2. We need to maintain those patients on drug, but because the FDA has been so collaborative in managing things like self-injection, I think that's helped us a lot, and we've gotten better at adapting to individual patient needs to get them started on driving. The other thing I'll say to you, just from an individual patient standpoint is patients on Crysvita feel good. They want to stay on the drug. They have a high persistence. Therefore they will work with us to find a way to stay on drug that it's not something that doesn't matter them immediately. They start feeling the effects if they go off drug very quickly. So for them it's important to stand, drive, in terms of feeling well and being well, and we are there to help them to make sure that happens.
Tazeen Ahmad
analystRight. Okay. So let's maybe talk about Crysvita for your next potential expansion. You're waiting a formal decision from the EC in the second half of this year about label expansion into adults. And can you talk about how significant of a market opportunity that could end up being?
Emil Kakkis
executiveWell, in the European Union, our partner, remember, Kyowa Hakko Kirin is the commercial entity there in marketing, and we did sell our European commercial rights in the debt deal. The -- we already received positive opinion for the adults. So we think that EC's decision really should be more of a formality in getting that done. The question is how will it build -- how it will impact reimbursement. We know in Europe, there's a lot of adults who are already on therapy from the trial who have been waiting. And the truth is the effect on adults is substantial. It's not subtle. It's substantial. And I think people didn't fully appreciate how sick XLH patients were in Europe, just like in the U.S. But as you start treating them, they start feeling better, they start realizing their doctors would be utilizing, how important the drug is. So we expect that the adult indication will achieve penetration similar to what we have in the U.S. and I Kyowa Hakko Kirin will have to manage both that and the pricing effects that might have when you get a new indication added to your label there in Europe. But we know the demand will be substantial, and there's a lot of patients waiting for the opportunity to get treated with Crysvita.
Tazeen Ahmad
analystOkay. Very good. And then maybe for a minute or 2, let's talk about -- you've got so many potential drug launches happening. I do want to touch upon all of them and get us a little bit more detail as we go along. But Mepsevii for MPS VII, do you expect the potential EU label expansion to have an effect on prescribing patterns or market share as it relates to the inclusion of long-term data?
Emil Kakkis
executiveWe think it's helpful to us, particularly in dealing with reimbursement, which we are still working through in some countries for Mepsevii. The reimbursement environment in Europe is, I think it's gotten tougher over the last few years as so many rare disease programs have come forward and the ministries in various countries are putting more barriers in their way with HTA. So the benefit of having long-term data is there to help supplement the trial data that was there and it should help us in the reimbursement process. We don't expect it to have a dramatic effect on overall use or penetration, but we do need to continue to pursue full reimbursement in certain countries to reach the potential for Mepsevii in Europe.
Tazeen Ahmad
analystNow as we think about all of the different launches that you have underway now that Dojolvi is approved and Crysvita's label has expanded in TIO. Can you talk about the general strategy that you have for the launches for all of your drugs? And how you might tweak them specific to each drug, and maybe you can talk to the specifics of Dojolvi and Crysvita.
Emil Kakkis
executiveWell, first of all, as a rare disease company, we plan to keep commercial rights wherever we have them. For Crysvita, it was really KHK's program. So the rights we have are what we got in the deal. But for Mepsevii and Dojolvi, we certainly own global rights. We don't have an Asia Pacific entity at this point. And our Mepsevii will probably commercialize with someone else but a relatively small indication. But in general, our strategy is to maintain the global regions ourselves through small smart groups in Europe, Turkey, Latin America, including the major countries in Latin America and to continue to build out the global footprint and commercial potential. Many people don't realize that 80% of rare disease patients are outside the U.S. So if we're too U.S.-centric, we will limit the long-term potential of our program. So our goal would be to get to maximally commercializing all the territories we can ourselves rather than using partners or seeking partners. Within each territory, there's a lot of differences for what you can do. In some cases, we're using -- we're responding to named patient sales requests. Currently in Europe, for Dojolvi, for example, we are responding to named patient requests in France and Italy. And with the U.S. approval, we can expand named patient sales to other countries, whether we can file in Europe is not yet determined. But in the meantime, we can continue to respond to named patient requests across Europe. In France, there are more than 70 patients on the FAOD, on treatment already, treated by something like 30 doctors, so the recognition of the products already there, and we will pursue named patient sales there. South America, for Dojolvi, we were using named patient sale responses, particularly in Argentina and in Colombia. And In Brazil, right now, most of the cases are getting treated -- are getting treated through the injunction process. In that process, both for the central government or the regional governments, it's starting to pick up, and we're starting to get more approvals for reimbursement. But that will definitely be a day-by-day process until we get a full-reimbursed approval with Brazil, which takes substantially more time. So those areas are important to us. I think one area that's been surprising and excellent upside for us has been Canada. Canada historically has been very slow to adopt rare disease products into reimbursement. But lately, they have -- with their new insurance -- supplemental insurance scheme, more than half of Canadians are on or have supplemental insurance. And those patients can get treated just like in U.S. patients, and we have a substantial number of Crysvita patients on drug. And we have also filed for approval for Dojolvi there as well. And we think Canada will actually come out as a bigger win for us than we would have normally thought of based on this new insurance scheme, the ability to get reimbursement for Canadians, which is a good thing because Canadians have often been delayed in ever getting access to rare disease drugs. So this is that. Mepsevii is a program that we got approved, and we'll continue to find patients one by one, but it can't be a major commercial effort. We have to run it lean and smart for a program that small. So our main focus will be on Crysvita and Dojolvi globally and we'll support Mepsevii and continue to grow where we can, which will be steady and slow. But with 3 working programs like that, I think it gives us tremendous robustness and strength to leverage our investments and to gain ground in terms of becoming more accretive. We're also well set up with that to be able to launch gene therapy products or any products that we come -- we bring in through business development deals, a global entity for rare diseases like ours is desirable for our partners as well. And that's something I think we can also leverage and be able to add products to the portfolio and build on the leverage investment we've made in global commercial.
Tazeen Ahmad
analystOkay. You did mention gene therapy. So let's spend a couple of minutes on that. You've got the 401 program for GSDIa. Can you talk about that particular disease for a minute and then remind us of what data we should expect to see in the second half of this year?
Emil Kakkis
executiveSure. So Glycogen Storage Disease Type Ia or von Gierke disease is a disease in which an enzyme, glucose-6-phosphatase is missing in the liver, and this enzyme is responsible for the ability of your liver to release glucose to the bloodstream. So when you're not eating between meals, sleeping, your liver is releasing glucose to maintain your blood glucose level. That's a system that exists to keep you going. These patients don't have that enzyme, 80% of them are no. Without that enzyme, their glucose falls like a rock when they're not eating. What happens is that they can go very low, end up with seizures or even die suddenly. Prior to the advent of cornstarch therapy, patients with GSDI died as kids, they were in terrible condition. Some decades ago, then people began recognizing you could give uncooked oral cornstarch, which would slowly digest in your GI tract and act as an oral glucose replacement therapy. And you take that after meals to kind of give you a little bit of glucose release between the meals to keep you from going low. And you give it just before bed. And use an alarm to wake-up in the middle of the night because if you don't, you would go too low while you're sleeping, potentially have a sudden seizure or die. So that became the standard, every 3 or 4 hours taking a swig of cornstarch. Now it's not a little bit. In fact, it's often 300 grams of starch a day as a -- like a water -- a water slurry, is not subtle, is a major part of your life. And we had a picture from one of our patients showing a suit case like a little roller like suit case, he's going on a 10 day-trip, the entire suitcase is filled with boxes on cornstarch. That's what he has to take with him to go for just 10 days. Now the treatment we're providing is a gene therapy that gives that enzyme, under control the normal promoter, so something that will regulate in response to your own glucose needs and hormonal indicators and will allow them to essentially regulate glucose like they normally would. We've treated 9 patients, all 9 have responded, and we've determined the optimal dose and are working now on planning to move towards Phase III for the GSD1a program. What we've been able to show is that after treatment with the gene therapy, patients have a rapid decline in the amount of cornstarch oral glucose replacement therapy they need, indicating how much the liver now is able to release glucose. We've shown that and the most recent cohort 3, a 57% reduction within the first 12 weeks, a very rapid decline. We've looked at the durability of the treatment long term. And the patients from the first cohort that are out longer term, now almost 2 years, have continued to improve over time. And so we feel very good about the policy of this gene therapy and its durability and the ability to change the future for patients with GSDIa, eliminating the life or death situation of maintaining glucose through taking oral cornstarch. And I think that will be a profound change of life for these patients. And we're excited to get -- negotiate with the FDA later this year and head into Phase III next year.
Tazeen Ahmad
analystAnd what would a Phase III program potentially look like? Do you think how many patients, give us a range of possibilities here? And what would be meaningful endpoints to want to follow?
Emil Kakkis
executiveOur design right now, proposed design is approximately 40 patients, randomized 2:1 to drug versus placebo. And it would be 1 year in life with extension, but 1 year in life that would be proposed to demonstrate safety and efficacy. The primary endpoint we're proposing was, not yet agreed, would be measuring how much cornstarch replacement therapy is required to keep the patient in glucose balance. That number, we know, how it's working. It's a very responsive number, and it tells you more exactly what the liver is doing that you no longer need starch to do. So we think it's a very direct measure of the need for treatment. We think that's the best measure for our primary endpoint. As patients move along and get more adapted to their new regime of less starch and more dependence on their own liver, the time to have placebo does start to improve and the longer out they go, the better that gets. But we're also looking at continuous glucose monitoring, which is probably the more modern way to look at glucose control. And that monitoring tells us that over time, their -- quality of their glucose control should improve, that is their highs and lows will reduce, and will tighten up, and maintain their glucose more in the normal range between 60 and 120. We think that will be another part of the secondary endpoint, is looking at glucose control as well as time to hypoglycemia. And finally, we'll also be looking at both quality of life and other measures for how patients feel and how they're functioning through individual scores that we've designed for glycogen storage disease type I. So the combination of the biochemical benefit, the change in the need for oral replacement therapy as well as change in palpitations, be able to function, we think would be a sufficient program for approval. We'll work with the FDA on that when we meet and talk through those details as we move ahead.
Tazeen Ahmad
analystOkay. And maybe for opportunity purposes, how many patients do you think there are? And is there a geographic disposition for more patients in certain areas? And how many patients do you think are identified as of today?
Emil Kakkis
executiveWell, we think there's around 6,000 or so GSDI patients. I think that most of them would be identified. The reason being that if they're not identified, they will die. So anyone who is alive that's more than a few years old should have been diagnosed correctly because it's very hard to survive if you're not actively managing someone with severe hypoglycemia like this. We know no particular distribution unlike some rare disease, where there's very high-frequency in some areas. There's not a particular one that is of note. There are maybe some places where there's some differences, but it's pretty widely found across all the territories where we would commercialize.
Tazeen Ahmad
analystOkay. So maybe we can spend now a few minutes talking about another program that you have, 301 for OTC deficiency. Dosing in the fourth cohort of the Phase I/II trial that you've been running was previously on hold due to COVID. Can you provide a little bit more specificity on the updates on the status of this particular trial? And similar to what we discussed about 401 with beta, should we expect by the end of this year? And maybe you could start with a description of what OTC is as well?
Emil Kakkis
executiveSure. Ornithine transcarbamylase, or OTC deficiency, is a defect in the urea cycle pathway. It's that half of your body uses to detoxify ammonia that comes from the breakdown of amino acids from proteins. You can't break it down. What happens as the ammonia accumulates, it will cause -- it is basically a poison to the brain, you will go into coma and potentially die from it. The late-onset type patients can be getting along okay, not great. But then if they get a cold, they'll end up in coma, and that's how usually they get diagnosed. The gene therapy then is trying to replace this enzyme, this OTC enzyme. And we've been conducting a Phase I/II trial, have treated 9 patients, 6 out of the 9 are responding and 3 have complete responders. And the others in the cohort 3 are continuing to titrate off their drugs and diet. We believe we'll have all 3 as complete responders. Well, we've -- we're adding it as the fourth cohort that you mentioned, Tazeen. That is simply an adjustment to the protocol to add the prophylactic steroids rather than reactive steroids. So the steroids will start earlier, the course and help prevent inflammation in the liver after the gene therapy. We, as a habit, would like to try things like that, those kind of changes before Phase III rather than in Phase III. So we're going to treat 3 patients that's starting to happen now because the sites have opened, and the patients who have been screened are now able to get treated. So we're still on track to get data from that later this year. In the meantime, we're heading toward a Phase III meeting plan with FDA, in which we will put forth a similar randomized controlled study of 40 patients, particularly with ammonia as a primary endpoint, among other endpoints, including ureagenesis, cognitive function, functional scores that will help us understand the benefit of OTC gene therapy. The cohort 4 data would just help support the fact that giving prophylactic steroids is safe and appropriate in this disease. And we don't need it before we head to the FDA. So we'll get that information, then we'll have it before we do Phase III start.
Tazeen Ahmad
analystOkay. And how are you thinking about what a registrational study will look out for this particular program?
Emil Kakkis
executiveWell, as I said, I think 40 patients is sufficient. And the FDA has made it clear that ammonia needs to be at least one of the primary endpoints. Ammonia being the toxin that builds up is a validated biomarker or surrogate, it has been using the approval of multiple urea cycle gene defect as uses before those products. Therefore, are able to use ammonia as a measure where they're able to reduce ammonia. We will be able to use ammonia as well. But remember, some of the patients who are on drugs or other diversion therapies and protein restriction can be in good ammonia control unit baseline. In those patients, we would look to show that their ammonia is maintained in the normal range, even after we removed their drugs and diet showing that the gene therapy now is able to substitute for the drugs and the diet. For patients that have high ammonia at baseline, we can look to show that those ammonias decline. The 3 patients that had high ammonias in the Phase I/II study showed a rapid decline in ammonia by 6 weeks and stayed down in the normal range for the rest of the trial. So we feel pretty confident that any patient with high ammonia would be reduced quickly through the gene therapy. We think ureagenesis is another important measure. This measures the body's capacity to metabolize ammonia. And the reason it's important is OTC disease is episodic. You can be fine one day and then get a cold and suddenly go in to coma. What's happening is your body goes catabolic and that's when you need the ability to make more urea for more ammonia being generated as you break down proteins in your body when you're not eating or when you're ill. In that setting, you need to have excess capacity to produce urea. Ureagenesis assay allows us to determine how much excess capacity you have, which we think would give you better protection against a crisis event later if you're sick. What we know is that the patient in the trial that responded have had 40% to 50% of normal increase in their baseline ureagenesis. And that, that amount of increase allows them to get off drugs and diet. It also, in one case, protected them from getting hyperammonemia problems, high ammonia during the flu, confirmed flu case, which told us that at least that level of ureagenesis is enough excess capacity to withstand a major illness, which is reassuring and very important in treating these patients that we don't want to just fix ammonia now, but we want to give them the robust ability to withstand an illness and not get into crisis.
Tazeen Ahmad
analystOkay. Now when should we expect that study to start?
Emil Kakkis
executiveWell, the 2 Phase III studies are starting in the first half. GSDI, we expect in the earlier part of the year and OTC a little bit after that. We are -- part of the issue has to do with sites and getting things started up as well as meeting with the FDA. The FDA has been very stretched because of the COVID cases in Seabrook, which is where gene therapy is regulated. And so understandably, they've got a lot going on, and we're working through that. But that's where we stand currently for those 2.
Tazeen Ahmad
analystAnd how are you thinking about distribution of sites just given the ebbs and flows of outbreaks of COVID, costs of hunching across the world? Did that current situation influence your view of how many sites you want to have and where you'd want them to be?
Emil Kakkis
executiveWell, I think what is made clear to us is that we need to probably set up more sites because it's going to be a moment-by-moment situation. A country like Spain can look good and suddenly now maybe in trouble again. So every country may have its surge and decline. So we will need to have more sites up in order to assure that we have enough that can enroll to conduct the study. That will be challenging. But our expectation is to be both in North America, Europe, and include South America if possible to give us the greatest flexibility of covering. You might even deal with Canada as well.
Tazeen Ahmad
analystOkay. Before we run out of time, I did want to talk about the 102 program for Angelman, which is partnered with GeneTx. The first 2 cohorts of 2 patients are each fully enrolled. And can you give us a little bit of color, similar to what we discussed about your other indications? What's the market size that you're expecting this to be? What's the undermet need? And how easy do you think it will be to find patients to enroll in studies?
Emil Kakkis
executiveWell, Angelman syndrome is a much more common disease than some of the others we worked on. We think on the order of 60,000 or more patients with Angelman in developed world. So it's definitely a larger rare indication. In medical genetics, where I've trained, we all learn about Angelman. We are able to diagnose it, and it's a relatively common diagnosis among genetic diseases. So that's all known. We know the disease is a very stable, not progressive disease. And I think what's happened is the sciences suggested that the biology of their brain is simply in suspend mode if it could get reversed, to think the disease should reverse in these patients that they don't have progressive degeneration. And the early data suggested that if you could unmask a suppressed paternal chromosome gene expression in these patients using an antisense oligonucleotide, you could turn on the expression of an endogenous copy of the gene that's most important in the Angelman, and that, that would allow the patients bring to start to function again. Now amazingly, that's for something as sophisticated and complex is this, the animal data in the Angelman mouse show that, that is possible that a single injection can reverse complex neurological phenotypes, improve both the cognition as well as motor function in mice, and that effect lasts for 4 months. All of that biology has been very exciting with really relatively recent published in 2012. We partnered with GeneTx who developed their own antisense oligonucleotide with the work of Scott Dindot, a very potent oligonucleotide probably potent than most out there. And based on some interesting science, he has conducted on Angelman indication. The program now has been enrolling patients, enrolled first couple of cohorts, and one of the third. And those patients are getting a titration curve where they're getting a dose and changing dose every month, getting once a month dosing. This is probably steep titration curve. We will get certainly the first cohort of information. Our expectation at this time when we started was to release data in the first half of 2021, where we had enough data with enough doses in patients. The key questions with Angelman is, can you reverse the neurologic disease in a human, not just a mouse, a human now, and what domains are actually going to improve. Usually patients have complex domains and they're variable and heterogeneous, but they include weakness, inadequate language, includes seizures, sleep disorders, cognition problems, behavioral problems and motor or ataxia problems. So it's a wide variety of neurological conditions. What we know from the animal work in nonhuman primates that the GeneTx people have done is that the ASO they provided when given intrathecally does penetrate a large number, a large part of the brain, all the different regions that might be important. Therefore, encouraging us that it is possible to turn on that UBE3A gene in a wide variety of sites in a more complex brain like you might see to non-human primate. So we're now into the program. We're encouraged and we're excited about the potential for treating Angelman syndrome. And we -- our current plan from the start of the program was to collect enough data before we release it and to tell us where they are. But we won't wait for the entire trial to be done, it is an open-label trial.
Tazeen Ahmad
analystOkay. And how are you thinking about the competitive landscape for Angelman?
Emil Kakkis
executiveWell, there are substantial competitors who are highly experienced in neurology and in ASOs. Biogen Ionis were obviously the great innovators in the area of ASOs in general and have done a number of programs, including Spinraza successfully. There's also Roche, who's been working on this program as well. Fortunately, we are actually ahead of the 2 major competitors. And the only reason we jumped into this space with 2 big competitors, which is not our usual style, we like to be usually alone on a disease, that's because the science that Dr. Dindot had done under the support of GeneTx, was so compelling that he really understood more about the regulation of the region than was publicly known. And that insight led to the definition of a region that we think was more potent, and he thinks more potent and we think we've seen the data already, to suggest that we can have a more profound impact on expression using that unique location. So the competitors have patented other regions of the chromosome than what Scott has. And so we think we have something better than what they had. And that's the only reason we felt it was a fair chance for us to get in. Someone that believes in sometimes one great scientist can do better than 5,000 employees of a company.
Tazeen Ahmad
analystOkay. Very good. And maybe the last question on this topic is, for gene therapy in general, we've heard a lot about the overall value of having a treatment option that can be as close to curative as possible. And in exchange for that, commanding pretty high pricing. As you look at the limited number of gene therapies that are approved currently and what seems to be a range for pricing, how do you think about what range you think would be appropriate for products in your pipeline? One of the distinguishing factors of Ultragenyx has always been that you try to have the best therapies available but not necessarily try to charge the highest price for every therapy that you have out there. Would you have that same view for gene therapy?
Emil Kakkis
executiveWell, we think that the gene therapy promise is real, but the challenge is that if every therapy costs $2 million to $3 million, who's going to afford it, the system can't afford it. And it will be challenging to imagine that price point. Now the drugs so far have been more expensive to make. But one of the advantages of what we are doing is we've been developing the HeLa producer cell line system, which allows us to produce the virus at large scale, high quality and lower cost, which we think ultimately will give us a distinct advantage of being able to make these vectors at substantially reduced cost, which will allow us to obtain a reasonable operating margin at a more moderated price point. We haven't picked a price, and we haven't set a price. I think value will play a role. But I think you also have to think very completely about how many patients are out there and how much that would cost the system and whether the system will really be able to pay for that. You also have to decide, are you launching the U.S.-only pricing that way or are you trying to launch globally as the global tolerance for price will be different, and we want to be a global company, and we believe in moderating price for the sole reason that we will expand the number of patients we reach, and ultimately do better on revenue but ultimately also do better by treating more patients. We think it's a direction the field needs to move in. We may be unusual in that regard, I think, with Crysvita, the moderate price point, high-value proposition allowed us to penetrate the market and launch very well with our revenue in the first 6 quarters being on par with some of the best rare disease launches. And I think that's a testament to a product that is for a disease that's not life-threatening to achieve that level of commercial success. So we're going to think very smart about gene therapy, understand how the price penetration dynamic, both U.S. as well as ex-U.S. and continue work throughout all of our programs in reduction of cost of goods to get them in a range where we can manage a price point that's more approachable, that will still maintain the level of value. And I think it's very important to also think about how big the disease is, how many patients there are and what the potential is. And all I can say is we'd rather treat 5x as many patients at half the price if that can be done. And that would get us more revenue, but to treat more patients, and I think would fulfill the promise of gene therapy because it only becomes a very limited use therapy for only the very special countries and places where they can afford it. And we wouldn't have done what we're supposed to do. So we want to make this a very successful business franchise, but we also want to do it in a way that delivers the full promise, creates revenue for us, but gets the right thing done out in the field.
Tazeen Ahmad
analystOkay. Perfect. With that, we're out of time. So thanks so much for joining us today, Emil, really appreciate it. It's good to see you, and we look forward to all of the many updates that you'll be having over the next several months.
Emil Kakkis
executiveVery good, Tazeen. Thanks for having me.
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