Uniper SE (UN0) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

It's nice to see many of you here on a Friday afternoon. Welcome to this press conference. Also a warm welcome to our digital participants. Before I give the floor to our CEO, Klaus-Dieter Maubach, let me share with you how all that works. [Operator Instructions]. And that said, as far as I'm concerned, I would like to give the floor to Klaus-Dieter Maubach.

Well, thank you very much indeed, Fabienne. Ladies and gentlemen, a warm welcome to this press conference. It's unusual to have it on a Friday afternoon. The reason for this press conference are the decisions taken by the upper and lower chamber of the German Parliament on the so-called EnSiG, the Energy Security Act as well as the current situation of our company, Uniper. The reason for this press conference is not to announce that the state is taking a share in the company. Let me briefly share with you our point of view of the new legislative situation and the consequences that we, Uniper, have drawn from that. All of you are familiar with the situation that Uniper is presently in. My colleagues and I have said 4 weeks now regularly and full of trust been talking with members of the Federal German government. And there's no doubt for us that the Federal German government is very much aware of its enormous responsibility. It has recognized the seriousness and the urgency of the situation. And with the now amended Energy Security Act, the Federal German government disposes off the necessary toolkit. Please bear with me if today, first of all, we have to look at the details of the decisions that have been taken today. They are of overwhelming importance for our company. So I will now describe the arithmetics and -- of the decisions and its consequences for Uniper. Three sections in the EnSiG of particular relevance, namely Section 24, 26 and 29. Let me start with Section 29, which presently is the most important one for Uniper. Section 29 makes it possible to take capital and structural measures to support energy companies. In order to get access to measures such as these, companies have to file a formal application. Consequently, the Federal German government is in a position on the basis of this law and obviously also willing to acquire a direct share in companies. Well, at least it has now created the preconditions to do so. The application of Section 29 has priority over the mechanisms that allow companies to pass on increased procurement costs to customers, the so-called price adaptation mechanisms. In EnSiG are Section 24, the price adaptation clause in customer contracts and Section 26, the imposition of a levy. The mechanisms emanating from Sections 24 and 26 can only be activated alternatively. The precondition for the activation of Sections 24 and 26 is that there is a clear reduction of the gas import amounts and that this has been stated by the Federal Network Agency. In case the alarm level or the emergency level have been declared and a considerable reduction of gas import amounts have been stated by the Federal Network Agency, energy companies can resort to price adaptations rights. In order to have an imposition of a levy according to 26, we need decree of the Federal German government, which the government is working on, and we soon expect that. And the -- it is sufficient that there will be a clear reduction or curtailment of gas imports, the decision, which mechanism will be activated 24, 26, rests with the Federal German government according to Section 26 and the legal -- and the legislative degree. Please bear with me that I had to share with you all the legal details, but they are of overwhelming importance for our company. Now what are we going to do, given this legislative situation or framework or rather what does the Executive Board has to do in order to remedy the situation that the company is in. That's our obligation vis-a-vis our shareholders and our customers and our employees. Under this connection, let me say, that the Group Works Council chairperson, Harald Seegatz, is also [indiscernible]. Now to give you a feel for the dimension of gas curtailment that Uniper is affected by. In only 3 weeks, Uniper has been lacking 1% of the entire German gas consumption. That means the amount used by 660,000 households during an entire year. That's the city -- that's the amount of the city of Dusseldorf. And Uniper still bears the lion's share of the costs emanating from this gas curtailment and thereby has ended up in a very precarious situation. Given the present situation, Uniper has daily cash outflows in the medium double-digit million area situation, which we cannot tolerate for long. That is why we've only just officially filed an application with the Federal German government to have stabilization measures. This possibility was created today by Section 29 of the Energy Security Act. And we have published the fact that we have filed this for capital market reasons shortly before this press conference. In the following, you see the elements of stabilization what could look like from our point of view. Firstly, a short-term activation of the price adaptation mechanisms according to Sections 24 or 26 of the Energy Security Act which would allow us to compensate for this cash outflow. Second, outside capital by increasing the KfW credit line, which we haven't yet drawn. And thirdly, equity components with lead -- that would lead to a relevant participation of the Federal German government in Uniper SE. The measures that have been suggested by us aim at putting an end to the present cash outflow and to protect Uniper's investment-grade credit rating. We do hope that based on our application, we will receive the necessary aid by the Federal German government on short notice. Now a few words on the situation in gas supply. We, with Uniper look at 2 developments on a daily basis: one, the development of the so-called entire gas import amount. Second, the filling level of gas storage facilities in Germany. Both are very important indicators for the gas supply situation in Germany. The fact that the entire amount of gas imported has significantly decreased since the 14th of June is something that you are familiar with. And we do not know how long the situation will last. And we don't know how it is going to -- or whether it is going to change during the next few weeks. Looking at the gas storage facilities, it is important to understand the following that on the one hand, we are the biggest operator of gas storage facilities in Germany. On the other hand, we ourselves have booked capacities in our own storage facilities just like any other -- like many other market participants. The curtailment of supply from Russia means the following. Presently, in Germany, we have a storage filling level of 63%. Uniper storage sites are filled to the amount of 54%. Uniper has only filled 40% of its booked capacities. We cannot store more, something which we would like to do, and something that the legislator provides for. Rather, very soon, we will have very soon, maybe as of next week, have to withdraw natural gas from our storage facilities. Certainly, that would be an emergency measure which would exclusively focus on complying with the gas contracts that we have concluded with our customers and to ensure our liquidity. We will have to inform our customers as early as next week about the present situation, we will inform them that they have to expect clear price increases. And in individual cases, we cannot exclude the possibility of a reduction of supply in the framework of existing contracts. The situation is such that we have no choice. Ladies and gentlemen, our responsibility and Executive Board rests with protecting, securing of the company. We are in a situation where the situation of Uniper cannot be separated from the situation in Germany. I'm optimistic that Uniper will be stabilized and will continue to make an important contribution to a safe energy supply in Germany. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much, Klaus-Dieter. Before we open the Q&A, a few practical pieces of information. [Operator Instructions]. Now I already see a few raised hands. Let's start off here in this room. Could you please formulate your question?

I'm [indiscernible] of DPA, German Press Agency. In your [ a-tech ] communication, you say that you are in conversations with the Federal German government to set up your own security supply company. Could you specify on that? What does that mean? Which business would that entail? What does that mean in tangible terms?

Well, if I remember, our talk correctly, this is a paragraph that focuses on what Fortum is presently discussing with the Federal German government, and you will understand that I cannot comment on the conversations held between Fortum and the Federal German government.

[ Ludmilla ] [indiscernible] from the Berlin Newspaper. How long will Uniper be able to serve its contract with [indiscernible] ? And with which countries is -- in which countries is Uniper buying gas, which will end up to -- in Berlin?

Well, I cannot comment on any individual contracts with individual companies. I already said that we supply all our customers with the amount of gas that they have ordered with us. There are no curtailments of supply vis-a-vis our customers after the present day. And the origin of our source -- the origin of our gas is known. The biggest part comes from Russia that has been curtailed, but we also have other sources, for example, from our Dutch neighbor or other areas, market sources that we tap in order to be able to service our customers.

There were a few further questions here, maybe the lady in the front?

My name is [ Annette Becker ]. I'm from [indiscernible] .I would like to know whether you can give us an idea of how much equity you would need in order to prevent the downgrading operating. You talked about a relevant stake in Uniper SE, you said, but the [ ad-hoc ] or Fortum's press release talks about this security of supply company. Which company will the Federal German government buy a stake in?

Our suggestion that we submitted would be a participation in Uniper SE. The company that is listed and where I have the honor and pleasure to be the CEO, that's the first thing. We will not say today which tangible individual components are attached to which volumes. But give me, please, the opportunity to explain why we think that it doesn't make sense. Let you give you -- let me give you an idea of the dimension. In the present price scenario, and I just looked it up, since the gas curtailment for example, for the next quarter in winter, we are constantly raising gas prices. We have reached nearly EUR 200 per megawatt hour. These are the prices that we have to pay presently. When you look at this dimension, the volumes that we are lacking and when you calculate our procurement prices and when you extrapolate that until the end of the year, then given this scenario, we might talk up to EUR 10 billion that we incur in terms of losses. So you will understand the question, how much aid we need is closely connected to the question of whether these additional costs can be fully or partially passed on to our customers as of when or via imposition of a levy. These are communicating tubes. The less we can pass on to our customers because the Federal Network Agency or the Federal German government does not activate Section 24 or 26, the more money will we need in order to avoid ending up in a precarious situation. When we filed our request, we assumed a certain scenario. A scenario what equal distribution would look like according to us. And based on this scenario, we assume certain capital measures, but it doesn't make sense for me to share these figures with you because we need to talk about those things simultaneously. What does the compensation look like? What about the application of Section 24 or 26? Which share of the losses might we possibly pass on to customers? Or will we get it back via levy and depending on this, what is the immediate financial support to stabilize the company.

Is this a follow-up question? If so, I would give you the floor right away.

[indiscernible] WDR Television. I would like to ask a follow-up question. When you say relevant share or stake. What volume are we talking about there? And also, you've just now outlined that you have been talking to the federal government for weeks with representatives of the government. Do you perceive a willingness by the federal government that this is an option? And second part of my question is this. You've outlined that the prices will have to be passed on to customers. I would, of course, like to know whether you can already comment on the volume of that because right now, the purchase costs are fivefold or 6x as much or above what you're receiving from your customers right now.

Let me start with the second part -- let me start with the second part of your question, if I may. Passing on the increased prices. That depends, of course, whether we're talking about Section 24 or 26 at the end of the day. As you can imagine, according to Section 24, it would be our customers that would be affected by price increases because we are the ones importing the biggest share of gas from Russia and hence, our customers would be the ones bearing the load with us. While if Section 26 comes to play according to my understanding, then it would be a solidarity across all gas customers in Germany that would be organized and hence, the implications of price increases for the individual customer can vary significantly. Under Section 24, there might be customers who don't experience any price increases because we are not supplying them and others who experience enormous ones. Our customers, as you know, we don't cater for end customers. We have industrial customers and we have a number of utilities, municipal utilities. And then it depends on these municipal utilities. They would be subject to these high increases of prices and 26 would be focusing on the solidarity and everyone will be involved. So it depends. I cannot answer your question in detail because it depends. Then I can tell you that we've had a discussion a few weeks ago with experts and the federal government in order to try to assess the situation, and we've talked about prices 2 weeks ago, we've talked about a potential levy and how -- what the amount of such a levy would be? However, these prices have been overhauled already because that was 2 weeks ago. Back then, we thought about EUR 25 per megawatt hour for every gas customer, but I ask you to keep in mind that, that is the -- an old and outdated figure because the prices developed further. And I would expect the levy to be even higher today due to the development. You asked about the equity share. I do not want to specifically answer that, but do expect when we say relevant we're not talking about 5% or 10%, I can say that much. And you've also asked the question about the willingness of the government. Well, I do you believe there is quite a big willingness, quite a vast willingness of the government to work with us closely. And by the way, not only in this respect, also in other respects, and with other topics that we're talking about -- to the government about. And I'm pretty optimistic that we will find common ground there.

Thank you very much. And that, I think, also covers the question by Florence Schmit, Argus Media. If it didn't, please raise your voice again. And once again, the gentleman here in the room. Yes, please.

[indiscernible]. I have 3 questions. One, what do you mean when you say short term? The agreement with the federal government that it could happen in the short term. What do you mean by that? Next question. Did I understand you correctly that Uniper submitted a proposal and Fortum a different one? And if so, how did you fine-tune that with your majority shareholder? And third question, I'm not -- I don't have a legal background, but according to my understanding, this is a breach of contract by your Russian partner as far as the supply volumes are concerned. Do you have the possibility to take legal steps towards your business partner there?

Short term means as soon as possible. We're talking about just a few weeks, I think, rather than several months. Short term and in the short run means we're aiming for an agreement with the most important cornerstones. That would be important for us, and all the rest might be clarified within a longer process. About Fortum and Uniper, you've asked about whether there were different proposals. Yes, there are different proposals. And in this situation, this is not unusual, not at all. The owner of a company has the right to submit their own proposal to the federal government about the solution they envisage and we, as the Board of Uniper, it is our duty to do so in order to avoid such a difficult situation for the company. I can say Fortum when it comes to the proposals we submitted to the government, we've informed Fortum in detail about them. That is due to the fact that we work closely together. And that Fortum is, of course, represented, as you know, in our Supervisory Board. Breach of contract with the view to Gazprom. I can tell you that this is one of the big disappointments that I'm seeing here. Some of you know this. After the war in Ukraine started, I perceived Gazprom or I defended Gazprom rather in Germany as a reliable partner, our business partnership spans a number of years. We've seen difficult times, sometimes very difficult times, but our Russian partner always supplied gas and we've always paid it in time. The fact that now there is an interruption of supply or curtailment of supply for such a long time is a big disappointment for me and the CEO of Gazprom knows this. It is quite a big burden on our partnership. And I'm not talking about the legal repercussions here. I'm only talking about what connects both companies for more than 50 years. Of course, we are looking into every potential option on the legal side as well, but that is something that you wouldn't perceive as helpful in the current situation, as you can imagine.

Thank you. And the gentleman over here. And please wait for the microphone. There you go. I'll come back to you. You've had your turn before let's try to keep this in sequence.

[indiscernible] n-tv. You've talked about a precarious situation. You've talked about difficulties or woe. How do you perceive the situation for the German energy industry? How dangerous will it become? And how costly will this become for the consumer? And the second question, if I may. Now the stabilization mechanism by the state was applied for. What is on the table here? And what is your favorite solution -- which solution would you like?

Well, on the second part of your question, I've commented on that already. I don't want to repeat myself. But as far as the difficulties are concerned and energy supply in Germany, well, both the Minister, Mr. [ Habeck ], but also the Head of the Federal Grid Agency both found the right word. The situation is tense and people are looking rightfully. So in the next 2 weeks, 14 days, which is the window of time where planned maintenance by our Nord Stream 1 is to be carried out, which will reduce the supplied gas even more, but that was a planned measure. But the big question is, of course, what will happen after this window of time once maintenance has been completed, will Nord Stream 1 come back to 100% or will curtailments still prevail. What will happen then? We're all looking at that. And then we will see how the situation develops. Your question also included what can consumers expect. Well, let me tell you this. We supply to our customers at a price we agreed on in 2020 or 2021. Back then, the prices were significantly lower than they are today. And back then, we also entered into and concluded negotiations with our pre-supplier. That's the basis for long-term supply contracts. And we conclude contracts with our customers for 1 year. And we don't do that for 2023, for example, we don't do that on December 31 on 2022. No, today, we're negotiating 2023 and '24. That means in order to try to answer your question that the big wave, the price increase wave will only be ahead for customers. Many of those customers see the high prices that we have in trade markets, they don't even see them yet on their invoices, on their bills. And this is why it is correct that the Federal Grid Agency and the minister and everyone else, call upon all citizens, all industries, companies, et cetera, and point out how difficult the situation is. An enormous wave, an enormous increase will happen will -- what consumers can expect and must expect. It is up to us now to every one of us, and we're all doing something about it. Gas consumption is going down, people obviously are reacting and companies obviously are reacting already to the situation, which is a good thing.

Thank you. This brings us to a question that was asked online. Lueder Schumacher, Societe Generale. And let me point out that colleagues from the capital market are already -- are also joining question. Question, the government is able to choose between applying Section 26 and 24. Is that correct? Isn't there a predetermined frequent -- hierarchy? At first 29, then 26 and then 24 What is the government waiting for with regard to Section 26? The problem can already be stopped at midstream level with the trading hub in Europe.

Okay. This is not just one question. It's actually several. Yes. That's how we understand the new Energy Security Act in that way that the government has the option, has several alternatives as to how they want to deal with the higher purchase costs for a company such as ours. So either you can enforce price adjustment right towards our customers or you can impose a levy. And we also understand that both instruments cannot be enforced together only alternatively individually. The way we understand it, for Section 26 also needs a decree and enforcement decree which doesn't exist yet, but people are working on it and implementing provision, if you will. And this is not something set out in the law, but it's clear in the communication with politicians, that it is expected that Section 29 will be activated before you think about -- before you consider Section 24 or 26 so much on Mr. Schumacher's questions.

Thank you. There was a question here in this room, maybe the gentleman over here.

Kevin Knitterscheidt, Handelsblatt. You just said that supply curtailments cannot be excluded. Does that affect industrial customers? And if so, which yardstick do you apply?

Well, supply curtailments are the very last resort for us. Supply curtailments would mean that we refuse to service our customers. We use this right. And let me point out that the Energy Security Act has a clear -- a new regulation in this regard, namely the application of force majeure vis-a-vis customers is only possible in this situation, if we have announced that with the Federal Grid Agency. So if this happened, we, first of all, have to inform the Federal Grid or Network Agency about that situation. In case of supply curtailments, we would certainly try to get in touch with customers, which is possible. I mean we know our customers many large customers and we know and they know their consumption can control it. So fortunately, we are away from delivery cuts at the moment. But if we have to do that, we, first of all, have to apply for that, file a request with the Federal Network Agency and then get in touch with our customers in order to avoid a situation where these delivery cuts bring our customers into difficulties.

[indiscernible] says, what are the effects of the financial situation of Uniper on the 2 projects in Wilhelmshaven? That means is the expansion of the swimming LNG terminals in danger? And will the hydrogen project on the premises of the switched off hard coal power plant be further promoted? And will the hard coal power plant be put into operation again?

So many questions, one after the next one. So what is the effect of the -- on the project in Wilhelmshaven? Well, no effect at least as far as we think because we think that we will be able to avoid the worst for the company. Now if the expansion of the swimming LNG terminal -- the floating LNG terminal in danger? No, we have been given the approval to start construction, and we promote that further. Will the hydrogen project be further promoted on the premises of the switched off coal-fired power plant? Well, our green hub will, of course, be promoted at high speed. Will we -- it is even planned to start up our hard coal-fired power plant again? No, it's too late. Wilhelmshaven has been switched off and we are no longer in a position and if so with only with enormous difficulties or requiring a lot of time and money to start it again.

I'm looking around.

[ TadioParado ] from the ZDF channel. Mr. Maubach, before you said that the storage levels of unit by the gas storage levels are at the 40% or 50% level, if I remember that correctly, and that brings me up to the question of the colleague from Handelsblatt. What about security of supply? When you do not get gas, how can you, in the future, for the next few months until winter ensure security of supply with which amounts and in which markets are you going to purchase the gas?

Well, let me take you along the journey. When we look at the gas, the total amount of imported gas, when you look at this curve, I have it here, you will see that Germany during March, April and May has increased its import of gas by way of many measures that have been taken. So as a result of that, clearly, more gas has ended up in Germany than in the comparative period. This has got to do with the fact that we have attractive high gas prices, and they, of course, attract imports. However, this has changed dramatically as a result of the gas curtailment through Nord Stream 1. In April and March, we had total imports of 330 million cubic meters, that was the peak. And last week, we only had 50% out of that. So you see the enormous decrease of the overall amount of imported gas. This type of development is typical for the course of the year, there's always a slight decline. That's why it will be decisive for us what will happen during the next 2 weeks? What will happen after the Nord Stream 1 window? The amounts will continue to decline as planned, but what will happen after that? That will be decisive for us. And I'm convinced that the Federal German government then at the latest, will take the right decision to decide on what will happen to us.

But you haven't fully answered my question. Does that mean that you will purchase the gas on the spot market? Where is that enormous amount of gas available?

Well, of course, at some point, we will end up in a situation where the question is not whether we are willing to pay even higher prices at the spot market. There will simply be a lack of molecules. They are not there anymore. If Nord Stream 1 is completely stopped during a long time then we will, at some point, not have the gas molecules and we would see -- we will see when we look at the gas import amounts that will decline, and we will look at the gas storage filling levels that will no longer increase as is necessary in order to reach the target that we have set ourselves for October and November.

Do you have a follow-up question, I'm [ Mr. Dietz ] ?

Yes, I have a follow-up question. I'm [indiscernible] from WDR. You described the loss of confidence and your personal disappointment about the breach of contract by Gazprom. So what makes you confident that after the maintenance window of Nord Stream 1 the gas imports will continue? And looking back, can't we say that you have played the Russian card for too long? Would you consider that to be a mistake retroactively?

Well, as far as the maintenance window is concerned, I do hope that we will not only come back with Nord Stream 1 but with a full capacity. And I also hope that the technical problems can be solved because in personal discussions with Gazprom, I was told that they are the reason for the curtailments. Hence, I haven't given up hope yet that things will hopefully soon go back to a normal level and that my disappointment was only intermediate. You've asked about too long, whether we've played the Russian cards too long. This company, we all together for the past 8 months, we have been in firefighting mode. Allow me to say that for us, it is really extinguishing a fire. And when I stand here in front of you today. It's yet another chapter where we wouldn't have thought that things will become even more difficult. But every time it becomes more and more difficult. And this is why today, if I may say so and stick to the picture, we're not looking at what caused the fire right now. What we're looking at right now is to stop the fire from spreading.

[indiscernible] Site online. That's her question. What's the context to Gazprom like right now? Are you in contact every day with the company? And what signs are you receiving as far as maintenance is concerned.

Well, with Gazprom, we are in regular contact. Certainly, this happens at a work level as usual. There are major supply contracts that we have in 2020. As far as I know, we were still the biggest customer of Gazprom hence, in our organizations, there are numerous work relations. And I can also say that Alexei Miller is always available when I want to talk to him. So yes.

Right. That brings us to Vanessa Dezem by Bloomberg.

Can Uniper survive with no help? When will Uniper's cash runs out? How much cash does Uniper need to cover higher costs and by when? Have you used KfW's EUR 2 billion loan already?

Let me start with the last question. No, we haven't. As of today, the loan by KfW, the facility of EUR 2 billion. We haven't used it yet. I believe I've answered question number one before, and I do believe this answers all of the other questions as well. I don't want to talk about the future. I give a prognosis the cash problem will become more severe than it is today already. But the fact that we are here today to report about the situation shows that we are struggling with problems.

Yes. Yes, please.

I would like to know whether in the current station, further loans or credits are of help? When we look at your rating -- your credit rating, I think what's important is that there mustn't be a downgrading. Are further loans or credits of help in that situation?

Yes, you are absolutely right. You're addressing major issue for us. I'm sure -- you're from [indiscernible] ? Yes. You've, of course, read that Standard and Poor's rated us CreditWatch negative. That's shortly above the noninvestment grade, and we are doing everything we can to avoid that -- to prevent that from happening. This is why we filed this application under the new act to avoid a situation where we are downgraded. That must be our goal. You are right, loan alone would not be helpful in this situation. Why? Because at the end of the day, we would solve the liquidity problem. But many other questions with regard to benchmark figures that are important for a rating agency would not be improved. Against this background, it is logical. I think that a relevant equity share is something we need to discuss.

[ Norbert Parting Plato ] which are the business activities of Uniper in Germany that are of systemic importance and which business activities are not of systemic importance?

Well, business activities of systemic importance. That's quite a long list. I believe we are the power plant operator, the biggest one, coal and others, the gas storage, we are the biggest one there. It's relevant for the system. And we are the biggest importer of gas to Germany. And in addition to that, we are the instrument, the federal government users right now to import additional LNG volumes to Germany. That is of systemic importance in my understanding. I hope I haven't forgotten anything major.

Yes. Yes, please.

[indiscernible]. You said many customers are not seeing the current price levels yet on their bills. In order to change that, in order to adjust the prices, do you really need those sections under the new act? Is there any other way around it? Or can you talk to existing customers and say, well, you see what the situation is, we need to ask you for more money.

Well, it's always possible to talk to our customers about the situation, but you can imagine, I think, in all the cases that I know at least the position of our customers is clear. We have problems as well to pass on the increased purchase cost to our municipal utilities customers. For example, many utilities, we know that they have already enforced significant price increases towards industrial customers and private customers alike. And I don't see any willingness and it can't be -- I can't expect it on a voluntary basis to pay higher prices and bear those increases. I can understand this perfectly that you need to fulfill your contractors with regard to our customers if that answers your question.

James Brand, Deutsche Bank. [indiscernible] mechanism do you expect to use? Will your costs be passed on directly to your counterparties or through the proposed utilization via higher grid fees?

Both will help us, 24 would help us and 26 would help us as well. I don't have any preference in that respect. It would only be important to us that one of the two is enacted as quickly as possible so that we can cover our daily losses as quickly as possible.

I don't see any requests for the floor right here. So we'll go to the online tool. [ Maria Henge Montel ] would Uniper have to read out gas due to the maintenance of Nord Stream next week? Or if gas is taken out, is withdrawn, would that need to be the case if the pipeline is off the grid longer than planned?

Well, I will not comment on that. It is a competitive a question that is relevant to the competition. I don't want to assess the -- evaluate the prices. All I wanted to say is that the situation is such that we are considering this. I'm saying this because the federal government, of course, is very -- is looking very closely at increasing the filling level of gas storage to be prepared for the next winter. And it is a possibility that we will not be able to make a contribution, the contribution that we had originally planned. That is a possibility.

Then there is a question by [ Reinhard Kowalski ]. Rein your post. It's unavoidable that the state comes in and becomes a shareholder right? Is that correct?

Well, according to our assessment, and this is why we've put in a respective proposal, that is path we're willing to go. That is the proposal the Board has decided upon, deliberated about and decided upon today, put into a proposal and submitted to the federal government, yes.

There is a question by [ Lute Miller Kotlyarova ] [indiscernible].

Follow-up question. What is your opinion about politicians and media thinking that -- or assessing that Uniper is facing bankruptcy shortly? Is that a daring assessment? Or is it realistic?

Well, if we were faced -- if we'd be facing bankruptcy, I wouldn't be standing here in front of you. I would be talking to in a solvency judge right now. We are not facing bankruptcy, and that's not a scenario we're looking into. We're looking into possibilities and options that we have at hand to stabilize our company. And I see enormous opportunities, first of all, because there is a toolbox that we might use. And secondly, because I perceive the federal government to be very trustful and full of confidence in their talks with us.

Follow-up question, [indiscernible] yes, please.

I would like to know why you don't ask your majority shareholder to help you out of this difficult situation. That would be the obvious thing to do that you ask your owner, you approach your owner before you ask the state for help, don't you?

Yes, you're right. But our majority shareholder has committed itself enormously in our company. For our shares, for the 80% package, Fortum has paid EUR 7.5 billion. In addition, EUR 4 billion cash credit loans, plus 4 billion guarantees. This is already being used by us. Fortum's commitment in this situation is overwhelming. That's what I can tell you. So I would contradict the impression that we do not talk to -- I cannot talk to our majority shareholder. Our majority shareholder has committed itself enormously in the present situation.

Mr. [ Yash ] from [ FP ]. Which dimension would the state stake have in Uniper according to Section 29 of the Energy Security Act? And has Uniper submitted a proposal or agreed on an amount with Federal German government?

There is no agreement with the Federal German government because we only filed our request today. I mean, if I may say so, and nothing against the questions, but I think this is once again the question to which regarding the amount of a stake, and let me tell you, I can't tell you. I mean, I think we should discuss that with the Federal German government I cannot discuss that here with you. And let me point out again that the question regarding the support package and the equity and third-party capital. What it looks like is closely connected with the question of the support mechanism according to Section 24 and 26. When will they come in? When will they help us out of the present situation? These are 2 things that are interrelated.

A follow-up question, yes, please.

Mr. [indiscernible] from n-tv. So linking up to that. If you do not give us any figures regarding this bailout support package, can you maybe give us an impression of the time line?

Well, thank you very much for that question. Of course, we try to quickly come to an agreement with the Federal German government. And let me point out the Executive Board does not just want to have an agreement with the Federal German government simultaneously this agreement also has to be supported by our majority shareholder. One thing is clear. The Executive Board needs to come to terms with both parties with the Federal German government and with our majority shareholder. Our majority shareholder has 80% of the shares. What we are talking about, to my mind requires the consent by Uniper's AGM, Annual General Meeting. That means Fortum there has 80% of the shares of the votes. So that will be the art to find a solution that the Federal German government is willing to endorse at which simultaneously is acceptable for Fortum.

Now let me look at the online questions. Bernstein, Deepa Venkateswaran. Curtailing supply to customers or withdrawal of storage. Will this need to happen even if the German government supports you as requested?

I cannot exclude that possibility because I don't know in how far the supply situation in Germany is going to develop. That depends on the question whether Nord Stream 1 will continue supply after the maintenance maybe with 100% or might Gazprom decide to supply more gas to Europe via alternative routes or are we on the path towards a full restriction of gas supply from Russia. That is what everything will depend on.

A question from [ Helmut Bunder ] From FAZ. Do you expect an increased financial contribution of Fortum to stabilize Uniper? Will the Finnish state have to be part of the responsibility?

I think those are questions that have to be directed to Fortum. Let me repeat what I said before. Fortum has already committed itself above average in the company. I gave you the figures before. And let me repeat what I said before. It will be the art of coming up with a solution that is supported by the Federal German government that they say, okay, we can support you. And Fortum has to say simultaneously. This is something that we can endorse as well.

A question from Wanda Serwinowska from Credit Suisse. [Foreign Language].

It's not a question of force majeure, but a question that said how itself now. We ask Gazprom from why are there curtailments since the 14th of June. I mean, Gazprom is a world company. It wants to be compared to ExxonMobil and Saudi Aramco, Qatar Gas, Equinor. They want to be on the same level. And Gazprom cannot explain to me why after minimal 3 weeks, a single turbine leads to a situation where only 40% of gas is supplied via Nord Stream 1. For a world company, for an international company, which has always said that they are a highly reliable supplier of natural gas. This is not plausible.

[indiscernible] From the New York Times. [indiscernible] To mature on your supply contracts?

Well, I do not want to repeat my answer in order to not bore you. It's the same question. We are in conversation with Gazprom on that and we are making it clear to them that we think that this is a breach on our contract on their part. We make it clear that we expect them to pay compensation for the damages that we are incurring, and we want to know from them when they will supply again, what they -- what is included in the contract. We want to know when this supply curtailment will come to an end. That's what we are constantly demanding orally and in writing, and we are in close contact with Gazprom on that.

[indiscernible] To come into force isn't the current reduction of 60%, a clear reduction of import amounts already?

If I knew that, if I knew when this levy mechanism started, it's not up to us. We can only raise this topic as we do today. Even the current reduction of 60% a clear reduction of import amount already? Well, we are not just looking at imports from Russia. We are looking at the total gas imports from all transport routes to Germany. And that's decisive. The decisive question is, will there be a curtailment there? You know that there are increased supplies from Norway, from the Netherlands, from additional ANG bookings that are being done, where gas will be shipped to Germany. So Germany is in the position or has been in the position during the last few weeks, where delivery curtailments from Russia are at least in part compensated for. The question is how long will we succeed in doing so, in particular, if there will be additional curtailments of gas imports via Nord Stream 1 and from Russia.

[ Stefan Schulte ] from [indiscernible]. Mr. Maubach for next week, you announced price increases and delivery cuts. As of when would that happen? Second, if you already have to withdraw gas from your gas storage facilities, isn't that an illusion that you -- that we think that they can be filled by winter?

No, I have not announced price increases or delivery cuts. I have not announced that. I have announced that we will get in touch with our customers in order to make it clear to them that this might be imminent. We have intensive close connection with our customers grown over years and decades, and we will not, without getting in touch with our customers, start price increases or delivery cuts. So thank you for the question. I hope I made that clear. Is it an illusion to fill our gas storage sites if we have to withdrawal gas now? No, it's not an illusion. It can work. It depends on what will happen after the maintenance window of Nord Stream 1.

Thank you very much for this answer. We slowly but surely have come to an end, but there are a couple of questions left.

[indiscernible] from Handelsblatt. I would like to ask regarding the consequences of the present situation for the long-term procurement and diversification of purchasing.

Well, we have always procured in a diversified way. If you know us, you know that we have long-term delivery contracts with Norway, within Netherlands. We are also one of the major independent LNG traders. We diversified in that way. Unfortunately, up to now, we haven't had LNG terminals in Germany up to now. So we are very diversified indeed, but it's obvious that in our portfolio, looking at imports to Germany, we had a very high share of Russian imported gas and now we have to reconsider this strategy, revise it and adjust it. But as I said before, presently, we have different concerns. We are not looking at the long-term prospects now.

The LNG infrastructure, [ Thomas Steinmann ] from Capital. LNG Wilhelmshaven. When do you expect the commissioning of the FSRU project? And how long will it take to build the connecting pipeline?

This -- the second question should not be up to us. Now commissioning of the FSRU, the floating energy terminal project, well, we expect that to happen by the end of this winter under best or optimum conditions.

And when I look at the time, we have 1 minute left, the press conference was scheduled for 1 hour. Do I see anything urgent which we haven't yet dealt with? Well, this is not the case. In so far, I would like to thank you very much for the questions posed. And afterwards you can file your questions to the press team, the IR team and with a high degree of probability, we will see each other on the second of August when we publish our semi-annual figures. Thank you very much indeed. [Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]