V-Guard Industries Limited (VGUARD.NS) Q3 FY2026 Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to V-Guard Q3 FY '26 Earnings Conference Call hosted by ICICI Securities. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Aniruddha Joshi from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead, sir.

Yes. Thanks, [ Nesa. ] On behalf of ICICI Securities, we welcome you all to Q3 FY '26 and 9 months FY '26 Results Conference Call of V-Guard Industries Limited. We have with us today senior management represented by Mr. Mithun K. Chittilappilly, Managing Director; Mr. Ramachandran V, Director and Chief Operating Officer; and Mr. Sudarshan Kasturi, Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer. Now I hand over the call to the senior management for their initial comments on the quarterly performance, and then we will open the floor for question-and-answer session. Thanks, and over to you, Mithun, sir.

Yes. Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to this earnings call. I would like to thank Aniruddha Joshi and the team at ICICI Securities for hosting today's call. We will be discussing the operating and financial performance for the third quarter and 9 months of FY '25-'26. I trust that all of you have had the opportunity to review the investor presentation shared earlier. The business delivered double-digit top line growth in the third quarter, primarily driven by the Electricals segment. Consolidated net revenue from operations for Q3 FY '26 stood at INR 1,404 crores, reflecting a Y-o-Y growth of 10.6%. The Electricals segment, our largest revenue contributor comprising of wires, pumps, switchgears and modular switches, reported robust Y-o-Y revenue growth of 26% growth, which was volume -- led by volume expansion and also supported by higher copper prices. The Electronics segment, which includes stabilizers, UPS systems, inverters, reported largely flat revenues of INR 286 crores in Q3 FY '26. While some summer-led categories continue to witness muted demand, this decline was offset by growth in other categories. In the Consumer Durables segment, comprising of fans, water heaters, kitchen appliances and air coolers, revenues grew by 4.6% Y-o-Y. Water heaters performed well during the quarter, even as demand for fans and cooling products remain subdued. Sunflame reported a Y-o-Y revenue decline of 9.9% in Q3 FY '26, reflecting the continued softness in the kitchen appliances category. Demand in the CSD channel continued to be weak. The operational integration of Sunflame has been completed and the sales integration is currently underway, which is expected to support growth and acceleration for the brand going forward. Gross margin for the quarter stood at 35.7% compared to 36.7% in Q3 FY '25, reflecting a contraction of 100 basis points, largely arising from the mix impact. Margins have remained resilient during the quarter. We foresee some input cost increases coming up and the company plans to undertake calibrated pricing actions across the product portfolio in the coming quarters. EBITDA, excluding other income for Q3 FY '26 stood at INR 123 crores, representing a Y-o-Y increase of 18.3%. EBITDA margin improved to 8.8% from 8.2% in Q3 FY '25, an expansion of 60 basis points. Pursuant to the notification issued by Ministry of Labour and Employment regarding the new Labour Codes, the company reassessed its employee benefit obligations. Accordingly, an incremental charge of INR 22.11 crores towards gratuity and leave encashment provisions have been recognized as an exceptional item during the quarter. As a result of this onetime impact, the consolidated PAT for Q3 FY '26 stood at INR 57 crores compared with INR 60 crores in Q3 FY '25, representing a Y-o-Y decline of 5.2%. On an underlying basis, consolidated PAT improved by 22% Y-o-Y. Our working capital position remains healthy, which led to strong cash flow during the quarter. In terms of CapEx, the fan manufacturing facility and the second battery facility, both in Hyderabad are two key projects in the pipeline. These will further increase the share of in-house manufacturing. We look forward to the upcoming summer season with the expectation to deliver strong results. With that, I conclude my opening comments. I would like to thank Aniruddha Joshi and the team at ICICI Securities for hosting this call and would like to request the moderator to open the floor for Q&A. Thank you.

Question is from the line of Aditya Bhartia from Investec.

Mithun, my first question is on the performance of South versus non-South, wherein in this particular quarter, we have seen fairly strong growth in South, while non-South appears to be a bit muted. Is there any particular reason behind that? And is there any change in competitive intensity in either of these regions?

No, I don't think there is any change in competitive intensity. I think it's just that last year, Q3, the non-South region, especially East had a very strong performance for summer categories. So last year -- last financial year, we had very, very strong performance from certain parts of non-South, especially East, for summer categories. And this year, I think they have degrown. So that's primarily pulling down the non-South performance. But otherwise, we are not seeing any major change in the intensity of competition. So it's a base effect issue.

Understood. And secondly, in this particular quarter, we have seen employee expenses going down. So is there some reversal of provision or something that we should be aware of? There's a fairly sharp reduction both on a year-on-year as well as quarter-on-quarter basis.

Yes. Sudarshan, do you want to take this?

Yes. So there's been a reversal of some variable pay provisions, so which is why it goes down. It's something we review in Q3 every year, depending on how the 9-month results look, we then take a call whether payout is likely or not.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Rahul Agarwal from IKIGAI Asset.

Just one question was on the downside risk in terms of this entire inflation on commodities. Except plastic, I think a lot of metals are seeing very substantial sharp hike. Is the market ready enough to take -- absorb these price hikes, which we are planning to do, and I'm sure everybody else is also planning the same thing. And would you agree that temporarily these gross margins might come under pressure? Any thoughts around this?

So we see some risk in the fan category where this impact is very severe, coupled with new energy rating norms kicking in on 1st of Jan. So there has to be significant price hikes in the fan category. We have already taken some increases, and I think another 2% or 3-odd percent of increase is required before March. The other categories, the impact is not so high because the usage of copper and aluminum is not so much. And steel and some of the crude derivatives like plastics have actually softened a little bit, so which is making the impact a little less. Wire, as we have mentioned before, is a dynamic pricing. So all the price increases and decreases are passed on to the market with a short lag. So really, I think the consumer durable segment is where we feel there could be some challenge. Other categories, we don't -- at this point, we don't feel it so much. Yes, there is a price increase that is required, but it's not -- the quantum is not that high. But for fan category, it is.

And for stabilizer, how does it work from a raw material perspective?

Stabilizer, I think, Ram, you want to take this?

Yes, stabilizer will be about maybe 1.5% to 2%. So generally, in most -- I think even in fans, right, the problem is for the copper models, right, BLDC or aluminum-based model, the increases are lower. And if you have high performance-based fans where the copper content is high, that is an issue, okay? The extent of price increase required is larger.

Got it. So basically, what you're saying is in case this inflation continues, we'll take price hikes and that should take care of margins. Is that the right understanding?

Yes, yes, yes. So we have started to initiate price increases. I think we have passed on some price increase in fans. We have passed on -- we have taken some price increase in pump in Jan. And some categories we are doing in Feb and some we will be doing towards the end of March. So -- and we will be landing all of these things. Typically, in some of the categories, it's about 2% to 3% and fan is the one that is fairly significant if it is copper-based models.

Got it. And our salience to copper-based kind of fan mix, what would that be overall?

Should -- maybe about 20% or 25%.

Yes, about 25% to 30% would be copper-based. Others are all either aluminum or BLDC and aluminum models.

Got it. Got it. And secondly, on wires, what was the volume and value growth separately within Electricals? And how has been Jan so far? Is the momentum sustaining on volume growth?

See wire right now, there is a significant increase in copper prices. So the trade is also incentivized to upstock. January also, we have seen continued increases in copper prices, and we are also in the process of revising prices. So Jan also, there has been decent offtake. Volume growth is muted, but value growth will be there because it's almost, I think, now 30% -- if you look at Jan over Jan, it's almost 30% increase in prices. So volume growth could be muted, but value growth is definitely there because the ability for retailers to invest does not increase so much as with the increase in prices. And we are also seeing some softening of demand from project customers who are -- who at this price are not too confident to buy in large quantities.

For December quarter on your question, the price growth was about 20% volume growth was 10%.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Aniruddha Joshi from ICICI Securities.

Yes. Sir, regarding the fans, now we will see material price hikes in the copper-based fans or aluminum fans also. And the gap between induction fans versus the BLDC fans may come down. So do you see the BLDC fan as a category, the attractiveness of BLDC fan as a category itself may go up materially, and that might be impacting the -- largely the induction fan players and some of the new age players who -- e-commerce players who are largely focusing on BLDC, that tend to be at a slight advantage. Or in such a scenario, what will be strategy of V-Guard as far as the BLDC fans is concerned? And then one important question. Do you see a threat to induction as a technology itself, the way it happened in case of CRT televisions or CFL bulbs like that?

So definitely, the delta -- that means the difference between BLDC and non-BLDC is shrinking because BLDC fans require less -- the motor design is very different, and it requires less content and most of the motors are made out of aluminum. So in that sense, the BLDC fans price inflation will be relatively low and the induction copper motors will be the highest. So definitely, like today for V-Guard, maybe the BLDC sales may be 25-odd percent of total sales. We will see that steadily increasing. But I don't think 100% will move to BLDC because BLDC still has some challenges or some acceptances issues. For example, up country markets, where there is violent voltage fluctuation and all that, not all the BLDC fans are working properly there. We have certain models which are able to work in low voltage and high-voltage conditions, but not all the companies have such models. So among the trade and among the customers, there is a general pushback for BLDC in certain markets. So we'll probably see induction motors still selling, but the percentage of induction motors is steadily coming down. Maybe we can see 5% to 10% reduction in the size of the induction motor fan towards BLDC, in favor of BLDC every year, and that's what we expect. And V-Guard is well equipped. We caught this trend at least 3, 4 years back. And we have very good offerings in the BLDC segment, and we continue to have pipeline -- products in the pipeline to launch. And we have the right models to attract customers to the segment. So definitely, yes, BLDC segment will grow, but I don't see it becoming 100% soon. Maybe after a few years, we'll see because as of now, we still have certain markets where customers are not fully accepting BLDC.

Okay. Sure, sir. Just last two questions before I get into the queue. You indicated there is high channel inventory of wire. So if you can indicate the quantum compared to a normal inventory level, what is the currently the excess inventory? Point number one. And point number two, how do we read Butterfly numbers? Because now profitability has improved, but again, the revenue dip continues to be there. And again, profitability may get under stress with the increase in commodity prices. So how should we see or model -- the numbers of Sunflame over next, let's say, 3 to 4 quarters? Yes, that's it from my side.

So wire, yes, there has been some upstocking by the retailers, but it's not that a lot of them are holding that inventory. Many of them have -- when you're looking at the inventory levels of distributors, they have sold out. But definitely, they are holding more inventory than in a price deflationary environment. Ram, you want to take this question about Sunflame margins?

Yes. Yes. So we are right now in the process of Sunflame sales integration, which started actually about two months back. When I'm talking about sales integration, we're talking about integrating the sales force and the go-to-market system between Sunflame and V-Guard. So this quarter is -- the quarter when the transition -- I mean, it started somewhere around November of this year. So I think when you look at a full year basis, we will have a decent growth both in GT and also in I would say, organized retail. It is taking time for us. I mean, we have lost some ground in CSD, CPC for challenges we have already discussed earlier. And that's the segment which is under pressure. And e-commerce is also taking a bit of time because we need to refresh the product portfolio. So that work is underway. We have been working on the product refresh road map of Sunflame. And I think starting now over the next one year and I think already some newer models have landed also and some more are landing in the next 12 months. So I think -- I would say that Sunflame is more or less, I think the challenges are behind us, and we look forward very optimistically. We have completed the customer service integration and our service levels have significantly gone up. That was a huge pain point because the cycle times were long and it was -- and we also had issues with spares and all of those things. So those are all behind us now. And the new customer service system is now 3 to 4 months old. Supply side integration is also underway in parallel. And this quarter and next quarter, I think the integration will get complete there. So I think we should be able to perform much better going forward. Branding -- pricing has not been a challenge as far as Sunflame is concerned. I think we have been able to hold our gross margins. We have been able to transmit pricing. So that has not been a challenge at all at any point in time. Mainly the stress has been because we have not been able to -- the product refresh cycle is long because it takes about 18 months to refresh the portfolio, right? So those actions were late to start for various reasons, and the impact of that will be felt as we go through the coming year.

The next question is from the line of Naushad Chaudhary from Aditya Birla Mutual Funds.

Sir, first thing, I wanted to understand on the Gegadyne battery start-up, how is that doing? And how can that help our base business in the future? And is there any scope for emerging any new category with the help of that start-up?

Ram, do you want to take?

Yes, yes. So I think Gegadyne is a technology company, right? And that's the technology evolution has shaped well. And they have now -- with the limited ability at this stage, right, they have been able to start to make supplies for a couple of local players, but small quantities as a proof of concept and so on. And as also, they will be supplying to us in some time. Maybe over the next three months or four months, I think they will start supplies to us also in small quantities. So I think that is -- so they are now moving from, what I would say, technology development phase to commercialization phase at this point in time, right? And they are evaluating and exploring the -- how to set up a supply chain that can be scaled up to address business and market opportunity. So I think that's where we are. And we continue to support them in technology development and in helping them to find a pathway for building supply capability.

So assuming if it goes well, how will this benefit or strengthen your base business in the future?

No. I think, see, it will give us a vehicle to participate in opportunity that will come by way of what I would say, energy storage, right? So we'll see how that market develops and it will be possible for us to participate in that opportunity. And the scope of that opportunity will depend around how the market develops for the new energy offerings.

Okay. Second, on the competition side, especially in the southern market, we have been hearing the intensity in that market is increasing. Just wanted to qualitatively check in terms of market share, especially in your core categories. Are we holding up in the southern market? Are we gaining or are we finding it difficult to hold on the market share in the southern...

Mithun, you want me to take that?

Yes, yes, yes. Yes.

No, I think -- see, I think competitive intensity has been expanding from somewhere around 2016 or '17. So it's been a continued process, right? So I think to that extent, I think nothing different. I wouldn't say that there is a particularly strong increase in competitive intensity. I think what happens is southern markets, the trade structure is better organized, right? Organized retail is well developed in South and e-commerce is also well developed in South, right? And because of these two factors., It's -- market entry is easy relatively, right? We are able to reach a larger portion of the market through these two vehicles. That being said, right, the consumers in the southern markets are quite discerning, right? So it's not that easy to build a healthy franchise, right? So you could make entry by way of maybe aggressive pricing or something like that. But it will be very difficult to sustainably run business because these channels also have very high cost of doing business, right, and all are also competitive. So at this point in time, I wouldn't say in any of the categories, we are losing ground. I think, in fact, some of the core markets, like we've had strong growth also. And we may have some problems from time to time in one or the other market, which may be related to, let's say, talent attrition or something like that. Those kind of sporadic things will be there. But nothing fundamentally -- I wouldn't say that there is fundamentally any loss of ground from an overall perspective, right? And generally, okay, there are some years, because a lot of our categories are also connected to, let's say, weather and those kind of challenges. And in a country like ours, this is not uniform across every part of the country. But generally, we have found, okay, one year, we don't do well. Next year, we do very strongly well. And when you look at a 3-year growth or a 5-year growth, we are fine. So I wouldn't say that there is a systemic issue at this stage.

Two more questions, sir. On the margin side, I just wanted the [indiscernible], as we have expanded the gross margin, though this year cycle was not in our favor. But assuming if growth comes back in double digit, should we expect our margin -- EBITDA margin to go double digit within two years?

I think so. I think if our growth does come back, we should be expecting double-digit EBITDA margins, yes.

By FY '27?

It will depend on a couple of things. One is the raw material inflationary environment. I'm hoping that by the time this sudden spike and all that is going to get normalized. Then in that case, we should be able to come back to double-digit margin.

Sure. And last one, we have done amazingly well in terms of our stabilizer, UPS, water heater. But in the newer categories, we have been slightly struggling. So in terms of strategy, our playbook, is there any differentiation we are trying to bring on the table, which might be slow in terms of ramping up the category, but once you reach to the size as you have reached in the base business, would be very difficult for the competition to challenge. So just trying to understand, are we just trying to play like any other me-too player in these new categories to get the growth and a little bit of TAM from here and there? Or is there any differentiation we are trying to bring to these categories, which can help you to be a better player in next couple of years in the newer categories?

As far as kitchen is concerned, once the integration with Sunflame is complete, we expect to have a very strong both product portfolio as well as the sales team and a sales system to enable us to grow faster than the market and we are putting all the building blocks in place for that. Some of the other categories we are working on, we are also doing some work on modular switches, where we are, again, working on some product refreshment and all that. Some of the other categories have already done well. So for example, both in the case of inverters, solar rooftop and fans, we have had a very decent growth in the last 6 to 7 years. So our current focus is to improve sales of kitchen and modular switches. These two segments have not done as well as we hoped. So definitely, we are doing some work, and we hope to see some results.

Yes. Mithun, I'll just add two more points, right? See, the -- fundamentally, our gross margins are decent in all of these categories, right? So we are -- and comparable with market leaders. So I think the acceptability of the brand and the acceptability of the offering and the willingness of consumers to pay the price, all of that is fine. The other part then is that it is not reflecting in EBITDA, right? Because these businesses have to scale up and they will take their time to scale up. And as each of these business scales up, they will become profitable. So it's more a scale issue, even though our -- mostly you are referring to consumer durable categories. And even though we have scaled lately, but still pre-COVID, post-COVID has gone up. But at the same time, there are challenges. These categories are also strongly influenced by weather. So you have a good year or a bad year. That is one issue that is there in these categories also. So it's -- and since it's a seasonal category, the significant window is like a 4-month, 5-month window as opposed to some of the other categories where we have a 12-month window. So these are some of the challenges. So fundamentally, I think it's not an issue of the margin or pricing or positioning. It's a matter of scale up. And once the business acquires certain scale, I think the help will fall in place.

Just a follow-up on that. I was just trying to understand whether your new categories offer similar kind of scope or opportunity to bring differentiation to the market, which may help you to dominate the market share as you have done in your past few products? Or would it remain a very competitive market and you have to operate at par what peers are operating? On that aspect, I was trying to understand, is there any space you see to dominate the newer categories as well?

No. So we have an active product pipeline, right? And of course, we continuously try to strengthen our product pipeline and improve our refresh rates, right? So that's a continuous exercise. You would have seen that we launched Luxecube right now. We also launched a popular -- not popular, I would say, mid-premium platform in BLDC fans. Both of them were launched this season, and they have done exceedingly well, right? They have exceeded our plan for the year. So I think -- so this is a continuous exercise. This is a continuous exercise. And as you can see, right, this year, summer was not great. So summer categories, including fan was impacted. So although the underlying movements are good in some of the categories, the overall may be dampened. I think this is -- see, also what is happening is we are -- as the time is progressing, looking at the future opportunity, we are also investing in those businesses, right? We are putting people on the ground, right? We are making investment in retail. So all of those things are happening. So see, if we were to hold a business static, right, then whatever improvements we make, we can show in the bottom line. But we continue to invest in those businesses, right? And those -- when we invest in the businesses, that impact of that has to be absorbed on a smaller business, right? So that's the thing. So that's why I said it's fundamentally not a problem of margin, right? It's a problem of scale. So when we hit the right scale, like inverter battery now, we make good money because we will hit that scale, right? Fan, we will hit the scale maybe in a couple of years, right? And when we do that, we will make money in fan just as others do, like that is how it will go, right? So those categories that we make money, we have the scale in relation to the category size, yes. So we'll have to hit those numbers. Of course, we can force the pace by putting more money. But in our experience, we found it a lot more easier to balance and take time to build the category so that the fundamentals are strong.

The next question is from the line of Ankur Sharma from HDFC Life.

First question was on the overall demand over the next 2 to 3 quarters and the context being given we are in a fairly inflationary RM environment and as you mentioned, both for fans, obviously, for wires, that's a continuous process where you are taking significant price hikes. Would you believe that volume growth also may start coming down, something we saw post-COVID as well when we had this highly inflationary environment and the industry [indiscernible] price hike and for quite some time, in fact, volume growth started to kind of suffer. So would that be the same kind of environment in the next few quarters as well?

So definitely, in the case of wires, there has been a significant increase in prices to the tune of close to 30-odd percent. So definitely, there, this argument that volume growth -- volume for the product demand could take a hit is true. But the other 75% of categories, the price inflation is not that high. So we don't expect any much impact on the volume growth going forward. And the second thing is the next big trigger is the onset of summer. So by February, we have a decent start to summer in South India, and we have a continued warm temperature across -- during the summer, we should be largely okay. And the expectation as it stands today from IMD, the meteorology department, is we will have a fairly warm summer this year. So that's what we are expecting. Wire, yes, because there has been significant price inflation. Volume growth could be a challenge. But then this is a product that is required, and it is not a V-Guard only problem. All copper wires manufacturers have to increase prices. So finally, people who are constructing something and building -- wiring something will have to purchase it. But yes, there is a fear because the quantum of increase is very high.

And just to kind of follow on that one. So even on fans with the 8%, 10% price hike, assuming a normal summer, you think that can be easily passed on and volume growth should continue, right? That's...

So fan, the major price hike is happening for copper models and models where we are using only copper and high-performance models. So we see a shift for demand from those models to BLDC where the price increases are much lower. So in fan, at least we will see more movement to BLDC from the traditional induction copper-based models. So fan, like I said, all the SKUs, there is not going up at the same rate. Only certain SKUs, this kind of inflation is there.

Fair. And just on stabilizers, could you talk about the inventory there within the system, given I believe more than half of the inventory -- the stabilizer sales is for ACs. So how is the inventory there? And any initial feelers you're getting from the southern markets in terms of how the coming summer could be? Typically, by the end of Jan, we start hearing initial trends. So anything you can highlight would be helpful.

So stabilizer inventory is largely normalized. You would have seen that our working capital management in Q3 has been fairly good. So a lot of the inventory that we had produced last summer is -- a lot of them have started to get liquidated. The preliminary report from the ground is Kerala, at least we have started to see warm temperatures. We are hitting like 32 to 33 degrees in the daytime, which is pretty warm for January. So the expectation is this will continue, and this is fairly good news as we speak. But then again, we have to wait and see until we complete the quarter. But yes, there is -- we have started to experience warmer weather in down south.

The next question is from the line of Keyur Pandya from ICICI Prudential Life Insurance.

Actually, question is again on the demand side. So specifically for two segments, Electronics and ECD. So probably because of the low base of last year in both the categories for some of the products like stabilizer, coolers and fans. I mean, is it logical to believe that the growth should be easily in the double digit at least for the next financial year and this in the backdrop of low base plus newer categories like solar inverters, et cetera. So that is first question on the growth side for both of these segments.

Yes. So Electronics segment within that, the air conditioner stabilizer segment has sharply degrown this year. The same is for air coolers. So for both these products, we are expecting a very strong rebound in the current year. The base is already low. As far as solar rooftop is concerned, they continue to do well. I mean we have not had a big slowdown in the sales of that category because that is not fully dependent on summer. So that will continue its regular trajectory. It is a category that's growing fast. The entire category in the country is also growing fast. So we are very bullish about solar rooftop business. So this is what I can say about the demand side.

Understood. And second, on the profitability for both of the segments. I mean, as you mentioned, the fans and specific categories of fans has high inflation. The rest of the portfolio has manageable inflation. Plus in electronics, I mean, in the weak year like FY '26, whatever margins that you have mentioned, so is it fair to believe that whatever margin we see for, say, FY '26, FY '27 should be either similar to that or better margins than that FY '26 just because of the operating leverage in both of the segments?

So that is our expectation, but one caveat is there. I mean, today, we are in a fairly uncertain environment as far as commodity prices are concerned. We have not seen this kind of an increase in copper in a single year going up by 40%. We have not experienced something like that in -- at least I have not experienced it in the last 17 years. So we're talking about a very, very volatile commodity environment. So if the commodity doesn't violently go up from these levels, whatever you're saying is possible. But that's one caveat we have to hold because we had that issue in 2023 when the Russia-Ukraine war broke out and commodity prices skyrocketed. So that kind of a situation, today, it is mainly copper that is going up and aluminum. Other commodities have not still gone up. So we'll wait and see. So -- but I think in my sense, yes, we should do better than -- in FY '27, better than FY '26 is what we feel because of the better summer category contribution and operating leverage.

In terms of profitability, right?

Yes.

For profit margins.

The next question is from the line of Ankit Soni from Mirae Asset.

Just one question on the solar business side. Since we have a solar inverter -- rooftop inverter business and the panels business, you also mentioned that we -- like V-Guard is more looking to enter into solar pumps business. So any forward move over there?

So we have started to participate in the tenders for solar pumps. And I think we have got our first order, and we are in the process of completing it. It's not a very large order, but we tend to, in the next 12 to 18 months, scale it up. meaningfully. So we have already started to supply to, I think, Maharashtra state government for solar pump, and we intend to scale up this business going forward. We have already started -- it is already -- we are already processing...

Can you please let me know the quantum of the order ones?

It's not very large in my view. It was some INR 4 crores or INR 5 crores -- INR 4 crores to INR 5 crores. It's a small order. It's not a very large order. INR 4 crores to INR 5 crores.

Fine, sir. Yes. But you look visible green shoots for the company to expand in that particular segment?

Yes. Our acceptance has been very good. I think we have just putting in baby steps today. But I think in the next 12 to 18 months, we hope to build a solid business in this category.

The next question is from the line of Natasha Jain from PhillipCapital.

Sir, my first question is on stabilizers. So could you tell us what is your market share in that category? And who are your exact peers here? Also, we observed that in calendar '25, a lot of newer brands have come in. I mean, I even saw Voltas for that matter coming out with stabilizers. So how do you see competition in that segment? That's my first question.

So the -- we estimate that we have a market share of about 40% to 45%. This category is fairly niche in that sense. The only serious competitor we have today is a company called Microtek, which is into inverters and batteries based in Delhi. They are probably our closest peer, maybe doing about INR 150 crores to INR 180-odd crores. Almost all the air conditioner companies have stabilizers. They have -- at some point, they will launch and then they will stop, then they will launch again and then they will stop. So I think this -- I'm pretty sure this is not Voltas' first time they're launching. They have launched in the past also. Yes. So the thing is this is more of an ancillary income. So probably it is not -- so all the air conditioner companies have stabilizers, but Usually, they tend to lose focus a few years down the line. So that's what we've seen in the past. But as far as serious competitors are concerned, we have one brand, which is called Microtek. Then we have a lot of regional brands in each state, but I would say nationally, maybe one brand is there.

Got it. And sir, one related question to this, a little bit longer term. So nowadays, we see that ACs come with an in-built stabilizer. And I have also heard a lot of influencers trying to educate people on this that you do not need to buy an extra stabilizer. So do you think -- is that a risk? And if so, by when will it start impacting us on a larger scale?

So this is a debate that's been going on for 15 years. It's not a new thing. And to put it in perspective, last 7, 8 years, we have had a volume CAGR of 7%, 8%, so even last 5 years, we've had a volume CAGR of 10%. So we still very strongly track the air conditioner sales. We are selling more in up-country markets, and that's where the more growth is coming from. So the newly electrified villages, the hinterlands of North and East where electric -- electrification is new, where also power issues are more. So these are high-growth markets for us. So I mean, like your guess is as good as mine. So we have reduced dependence on this category significantly. So today, it's less than 15% of our sales. It used to be much higher 10, 20 years back. So we have diversified a lot away from this category. But to your question, when it will go out of relevance, your guess is as good as mine. I mean we keep debating this, and it's been going on for more than 15 years. And all we can give you is the last 5-year, 10-year CAGR numbers.

Got it. Sir, just to clarify, you said less than 15% of your total sales, right, currently for stabilizers. And may I know what it was, say, 3 years back?

It would have probably been the same. But if you look at 10 years back, it would have -- yes, like maybe 15 years back, it was about 50-odd percent.

Got it. And sir, one last question on kitchen appliances. Is there still very severe competition coming from the unorganized or unlisted side players? Or has that eased out?

You're talking about kitchen appliances?

Yes, kitchen appliances.

Kitchen. Ram, do you want to take this?

Yes. No, I think there is activity happening. I mean there are continuously people entering the category and exiting the category. So that action is happening. But this is a complex category in terms of GTM because the revenue is coming through multiple pipes, right? So I think -- I mean, there are people who have taken the route of trying to build and establish through brand shops. But there are -- so these things are going on, but mostly people struggle beyond a point in scaling...

The next follow-up question is from Rahul Agarwal from IKIGAI Asset.

Just one question, Mithun and Ram. Let's say, a bit longer term, 5 years from now, growing at 15%, the company should somewhere target INR 9,000 crores to INR 10,000 crores sales. At that level, just in terms of categories what we have, right, which are the categories which can be INR 1,000 crores kind of sales benchmark with double-digit margins? And in terms of your market share in those categories, would you visualize that you would be in top 3? If you could just talk about what categories have that kind of potential? This is excluding wire. And where you think you can actually create market leadership, something like what you have been for stabilizers? Can you create something into other categories? Just a longer-term thought.

So there are a lot of categories that are more than INR 500 crores, INR 600-odd crores for us. There is the stabilizer segment, fans, inverters and batteries and solar rooftop on its own. So these are all -- all these 4 categories are very much -- and kitchen appliances is almost INR 500 crores if you put V-Guard plus Sunflame. So we have at least 6 categories that can do more than INR 1,000 crores -- and many of them are in a fairly good EBITDA margin profile already, and many of them, we are working on them. So there are at least 6 categories that can potentially be more than INR 1,000 crores to contribute to that total you mentioned.

Would that mean in terms of market share, can we claim top 3 positions? Is that something a priority in the company? How do you think about that?

So I think we don't chase volumes. We chase -- we are more chasing profitability. So if you look at the fan segment, we don't play in the mass segment, the economy segment. And that segment is a segment that's going to get hit the hardest when inflation like this happen. So I think our focus is on building profitable business rather than claiming a certain market share position. But in some segments, we will be in the top 3. Like, for example, in -- we would like to be the top 3 in the decorative and BLDC fan segment, for example. We would like to be top 3 in the premium TPW fan segment. So we may not figure in the overall scheme of things, but I think in subsegments, we would like to be in the top 3, yes.

As there are no further questions from the participants, I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.

Thank you all for taking time to join our earnings call. Once again, I would like to thank Aniruddha Joshi and the team at ICICI Securities for hosting this call. We look forward to interacting with all of you in the next quarter. Thank you.

On behalf of Emkay Global Financial Services Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.