VA Tech Wabag Limited (WABAG) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good evening, and welcome, everyone, to this earnings call post announcement of Q1 FY '25 Results of VA Tech Wabag, Ltd. On the call today from the management team, we have Mr. Rajiv Mittal, Chairman and Managing Director; and Mr. Skandaprasad Seetharaman, Group Chief Financial Officer. Kindly note that during this call, the company may make certain forward-looking statements concerning the business prospects and profitability, which may be subject to risks and uncertainties, and the actual results could materially differ from those in such forward-looking statements. The conference call will be archived, and the transcript will be made available on the company's website. The company's results update presentation has been uploaded on the website and stock exchanges, which provides an overview about the core offerings and analysis of the results for this period. We just thought you had an opportunity to look through the same. We will start with the opening remarks from the management, post which we will open up for the interactive Q&A. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Mittal to take you all through the key business highlights. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. From our side, greetings comes from Vienna. Thank you for joining us. We extend a warm welcome to you all to the earnings call post announcement of Q1 FY '25 results of VA Tech Wabag Limited. Joining me today on this earning call is Mr. Skandaprasad Seetharaman, our Group Chief Financial Officer. We have started the centenary celebration as Wabag marks 100 years of presence. The first celebration will be held today in Vienna, Europe, where Wabag was originally founded with our customers, WABAGites, bankers, Board of Directors, partners, suppliers, investors and all other stakeholders who have played a key role in this growth journey of Wabag. We have also, in commemoration, released our annual report with the centenary flavor. I hope you all have accessed this report of the centenary edition, annual report on our website and enjoyed reading about our 100 years of preserving resources, protecting environment and powering economies across the world. Over the last 100 years, our remarkable journey has seen us thrive and grow amidst some of our most significant changes in the human history. In a landscape often dominated by uncertainties, Wabag has stood as a beacon of strategic innovation and resilience. Our journey is not merely about numbers on the balance sheet, it is a narrative of a strategic foresight and unwavering commitment to the technological advancement. Wabag remains dedicated to create innovative solutions to ensure sustainable water resources, aligning with our purpose, sustainable solutions for better life. The success of our strategy is validated by the numbers where it is demonstrated that profitable growth we have achieved over the last few years. We have started this year with another successful quarter continuing our journey of profitable growth and consistently improving our operating margin profile, underscoring our commitment to long-term growth in line with our strategy, Wriddhi. Let me now take you through some key project highlights. Our prestigious 400 million liters per day Perur desalination project in Chennai being built for client, Chennai Metro Water and Sewerage Board and funded by multilateral agency, JICA, is moving at a brisk pace, and the engineering activities are at its peak. And completion of ordering of lean items is done. Civil activities have started, and main structures are progressing well. Site is gearing up and ramping up of resources to increase the pace of construction for achieving a significant concreting over the next 6 months. Deliveries are planned to commence in the fourth quarter of this fiscal year onwards, and the peak deliveries will happen during the next fiscal year when our marine activities will also be in full swing. In summary, the project is progressing well and it's on time and within budget. There has been a significant progress also on our 200 MLD STP Pagla project in Bangladesh and CIDCO water treatment plant in Maharashtra, where procurement activities have picked up pace. Our SIBUR and Senegal projects have completed major supply activities and are now moving into installation and commissioning phase. We have maintained a very high quality order book of around INR 11,000 crores with a healthy mix of 55% EPC and 45% O&M. O&M business has been our focus as this helps us to bring in stability, generate better profit margins, give us better cash flow visibility. Today, we have a long-term visibility of O&M with a robust backlog, and we will continue to focus and develop our O&M business. The geographical diversity of our order pipeline spanning across India, Middle East, Africa, Southeast Asia, further underscores Wabag's global aspiration and leadership. Now that the general elections in India are behind us and recent budget announced gave emphasis on promoting water supply, sewerage treatment and solid waste management projects and services for 100 large cities through bankable projects in partnership with multilateral development banks. This will augment demand for fresh water and other water infrastructures. Thus, we expect Indian market to pick up further pace and few key orders are expected to be announced very soon. Our go-to-market teams continues this effort in developing more projects in Southeast Asia and also CIS emerging markets. We have already got some success in this market, but opportunities are plenty, and our team is well geared up to harness the sales. As we have informed you in our conference call earlier, while the Indian market had slowed down during the general erection phase, we had reallocated our resources to focus on international market, especially the MEA region. We have placed several large bids in the MEA region over the last few quarters. And we are happy to inform you that Wabag is a preferred bidder in some of these projects, which is of a value over INR 6,000 crores internationally and in the domestic market as well. This gives us immense confidence on the future growth of Wabag with complex projects ranging in desalination and wastewater, both from municipals and industrial clients. As part of our strategy to continue reducing our exposure in European region, we have completed divestment of our Romanian subsidy. This has further enabled us to channelize our focus and resources to the emerging economies, which remain our core market requiring significant investments towards water infrastructure. To conclude, we have achieved remarkable success over the past century, and we are optimistic that we will compress the growth achieved over a century in the next few years, more than doubling the revenues at an attractive margin within this decade. We will continue to remain a truly Indian multinational pure-play water technology company with our asset-light approach, positioning to deliver superior value to stakeholders while contributing to cleaner, greener and glower planet. Now we can move into the financial highlights. I would request Skanda to take you through the same. Over to you, Skanda.

Thank you, Mr. Mittal. Good evening, friends. I trust you had an opportunity to look at the results update presentation as circulated and uploaded on our website and stock exchanges. Let me quickly take you through the key highlights for the quarter ended 30th June 2024. Our consolidated revenue from operations increased by over 13% year-over-year to INR 627 crores and stand-alone revenues increased by 7% year-over-year to INR 546 crores, driven by new and large projects moving at the swift pace and in advanced stages of completion. Consolidated EBITDA increased by 23% year-over-year to INR 81 crores and stand-alone EBITDA increased by 21% year-over-year to INR 79 crores. We have successfully maintained an operating margin of 13% at consolidated level on the EBITDA front. The PAT stood at INR 55 crores on a consolidated basis, up by 31% year-over-year, another quarter of profitable growth, where our profits grew at a pace higher than sales growth. This is adjusted for the onetime gain from divestment on subsidiaries. In summary, we are a global leader in the high-technology water treatment business, and we will continue to move ahead in our stated strategic direction. We have demonstrated consistent upward growth and have a strong revenue visibility from a quality order book of INR 11,000 crores and being a preferred bidder in projects valued over INR 6,000 crores. On this joyous occasion of our centenary celebrations, we would like to express our heartfelt thanks to our customers, vendors, partners, shareholders, bankers, investors, fellow Wabag guys and all other stakeholders for their unwavering support extended to us for the last century. We trust that our cooperation would continue for many more years to come to continue adding value to all our stakeholders. With this, we can open the floor now for the question-and-answer session.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Dhiraj Ram from Ashika Stock Broking.

Congratulations on the great set of numbers. So my first question...

I'm sorry to interpret, sir. Your voice is breaking. Your audio is not clear. May I request you to use your handset, please?

Am I clear now?

Yes, please continue.

Congratulations on the great set of numbers. So my first question is...

Sir, I'm sorry. Still breaking. We can't hear you.

Is it a little bit clear now?

No, sir, it's breaking.

Sorry, I will come back in the queue.

Okay, sir. Please rejoin the queue. We'll take the next question from the line of Rahul Jain from JM Financial PMS.

Sir, am I audible?

Yes, sir, you may proceed.

My first question will be, so with regards to execution, India's revenue declined 22% for you. So despite Chennai contributing to the execution, also the margins were weak at 11.6% on EBIT level basis. So what happened here, if you could help us understand the lower execution and margin during the quarter for the domestic business?

No. When you are giving these numbers, to which quarter you're comparing these revenues and margins?

I'm comparing Q1 to Q1.

In Q1 to Q1, our growth has been almost -- if you say on a consolidated basis, it's about 13%. On a stand-alone basis, it's 7.2%. On margin, it's 14% EBITDA versus 11.9% and 14.5% versus -- all the numbers are up and PAT is almost 31%. So I don't know where you are reading these numbers. You said Q1 to Q1, Rahul. Please check your numbers.

Sir, I think your India business, which is 2.6 million, declined 22% to 3-point of -- against last year at INR 3.4 billion. I'm comparing those numbers.

I don't know where you're picking these numbers, Rahul. None of your numbers are correct.

Let me get back on this.

Please get back. Thank you, Rahul.

Yes. My second question will be, I see you have a pipeline of around INR 6,000 crores in India and MEA regions, right? So what are these orders related to? And when can we expect this to come in our order book?

See when we say that we are confident and we use the word preferred contracts, that means this is a question where we are already a lowest bidder declared. Some of places, evaluations have been done. Some places still evaluation is going on. And post that, there is a process at the client's end to go through all the internal approvals, then we will get into contract discussion. And it should happen within this fiscal year. Normally, it takes anything between 1 to 4, 5 months. So we think so even in this calendar year, we should see this order progressively. Some of it will start in the next 1 or 2 months. Some of it in 3, 4 months and some of it in 4, 5 months. This is a strong pipeline. It's not a normal pipeline. This is all we have bid. We are preferred bidders, we are lowest bidders, all that is a very concrete pipeline.

Got it. Got it. Sir, my next question is, in the budget, it was noted that government will be promoting water supply, sewage treatment and solid waste treatment projects and services in 100 large cities. So how you're looking at this opportunity? And can you highlight how can be the competitive intensity in such projects because there are several other EPC players, which are going for the water projects wherein they have highlighted a significant opportunity in India as well as globally. How is the competition scaling up on the business side?

See, Rahul, it's very clear where there is opportunity, competition is most welcome. We have never worried about competition because we understand our strength, we understand our technology superiority, we understand our offerings what we give it to our customer and how do we add value. One thing is very clear that we select our projects very carefully, where we see that we have a good chance of payment security there, cash flow is there and we have an opportunity to use our technology superiority. We select a few projects and projects we target, generally, we are both technically and commercially very attractive. So competition, yes, will be there, has to be there, but that does not put us in any concern. We are happy to fight the competition and win our quota of projects.

Sure, sir. Sure. Next question is so, are there any semiconductor or CBG or green hydrogen projects in pipeline in the next 2 years if you can highlight that also?

This is definitely -- if you've seen our presentation, we put it on our website for investors and analysts, I think it's clearly saying that we are into this new field. You've mentioned the two, which is semiconductor, which needs industrial water, compressed biogas, which is a new initiative of the government to -- for clean and green environment. We have been in this business already for 30 years. Now it's only question of converting that into a specification, which we can directly pump into the fuel stations or into the pipeline. We have to do a little bit of more cleaning up, which we have already announced a few months back. We have signed with Peak Ventures to develop it together, and we're ready to take it -- these projects forward. And we are planning at least 100 projects to do over the next few years. Same thing is in semiconductor. We have ultra-pure technologies, we have our references. We are talking to a few other global leaders where we will be the technology champions in that, and we will then be going after the projects. Same thing we are doing for hydrogen and same thing for digitalization and AI to be included in our projects. These are the 4 initiatives we will work over the next few years and make sure they all get integrated in our business.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Dhiraj Ram from Ashika Stock Broking.

Sir, am I audible?

Yes, you are.

Yes, you are.

Congratulations for the good set of numbers. Recently, there is...

No, your voice is not audible now.

Mr. Ram, I think there is a network issue at your end. I would request you to kindly use some other number to contact us back. We'll move on to the next question, which is from the line of Nidhi Shah from ICICI Securities.

So my first question would be on the segmented result that you've declared on a consolidated basis. For India, you -- we can see that this quarter Y-o-Y, there was a decline of 22% of revenues. Could you give some color as to, firstly, why the India business is down? Number one. And number two is that we can see that the export revenue was more than doubled. So again, is there a focus shift in the company? What is going on? That's my first question.

See the mix of revenues between India and ROW is usually how the projects are progressing. You have seen in the last few years with the strategy shift, we have focused more on the international business. Also over the last 6, 9 months in the general election phase, there has also been a lull in terms of the Indian business. The main contributors for revenue are the SIBUR project and Senegal project, as Mr. Mittal mentioned in his opening remarks, which are completing their supply phase and moving into the installation commissioning phase. So deliveries have been happening over the last H2 as well as into Q1 and will get largely completed by Q2. So these are the revenues which are getting a bigger share, and that's why you see versus first quarter of last year in the segment results, the international revenue is better, while the Indian revenue on the other side, it's a mix of projects. You will see over this year, this will slowly change because the newer projects in India, specifically the 400 MLD desalination plant, will start picking up, the delivery start in Q4. So the manufacturing will happen over the next few quarters. And next year, you will have a lot of deliveries here. Of course, this mix will -- is dynamic because the INR 6,000 crores worth of projects where we said we are preferred bidders, has a very good mix of international large complex projects, so when they also come in. So the mix is likely to swing, but I would allude you to look at us over, say, a 3-, 4-year kind of period, which is what we presented during the year-end, and you saw we were about 40% or more on the international business, but 30% on industrial and EP was about 1/3 of the EPC. So you'll have to see us over a longer period rather than merely a quarter-over-quarter because the mix of projects may change.

Got it. Got it. Also, last quarter, you mentioned that the order pipeline target for this year is about INR 15,000 crores. Are we still maintaining on that number? Or would you like to revise that number?

See we are expecting with the robust order pipeline and also the orders that where we have told you that we are preferred bidders, we are confident that we will be on track on this -- in that range is what we are expecting it to be.

See I just want to correct, it's not the order intake, INR 16,000 crores...

Sorry, the order book, sir.

Order book.

Right, right. Another question that I had is that so far in Q2, have you seen any further development on this order booking side? As in terms, have you booked anything concretely in this Q2 so far?

Yes, this is what we told you and INR 6,000 crores, which is visible to us a concrete order pipeline, which should materialize over the next few months progressively.

Sir, no I was asking in the last 1, 1.5-odd months, have you booked anything? I understand that you are a preferred bidder in INR 6,000 crores odd projects, but have you booked anything in the last 1, 1.5 months?

Generally, if we book anything, we'll make an announcement, Nidhi.

We'll take the next question from the line of Ashish [indiscernible].

Sir, wanted to understand since balance sheet is not published for Q1. So is there any change in the working capital cycle for us if you could spell out how the consequence would have moved for us? The number of days will be...

See, I think we'll take this question. But generally, I think the business is as usual, and it's the first quarter. Whatever deliveries and the work we do in the last quarter, we are in the collection phase in the first and second quarter. And you will see this when we publish in 1.5 months. But I can tell you, our net cash position remains positive, which is good, which is after many years in the first quarter itself we have a positive cash flow. And exact numbers, you can ask -- join the call and we'll give you. Otherwise in about -- when we close the second quarter, we'll give you anyway the full balance sheet.

Okay. Sir, in the opening remarks, I think you mentioned your aim is to double revenues and better the margins. So what the time period are we alluding to here?

No, I said the same thing that we would do it within this decade. So in the next 4, 5 years, we should achieve it. And with this kind of order backlog and order book, which we have given you, I don't think it's difficult or impossible. Very much possible, and that is the reason we have made this statement.

Okay. If I may ask one more, sir, our presence is pretty global. So risk management becomes most important in terms of receivables, in terms of execution of the work and stuff. So how are things shaping up? Because globally, we have seen a lot of disturbances, plus we are very, very spread over across the globe. So any comments on that will be helpful? Any risk that you see now or is it all smooth?

See we have told you before, and we continue to evaluate our payment security very, very clearly before we decide to bid for the project. As we have told you, if you can see our order book, most of them have a central government or federal government guarantees with their projects like Namami Gange, Swachh Bharat, AMRUT, Namami is from the central government. Some other projects like we talked about Chennai Desal, we talked about Bangladesh, we talked about our projects in Senegal, all these are mulilaterally funded, organizations like World Bank, Asian Development Bank, JICA from Japan, KSW from Germany. These are all multilateral because we are in a social sector, these are government funds, which fund these projects, which are directly impacting the social sector. So we always focus on those projects which should give us this payment security. Some of the other clients in the Middle East and all, they are all government organizations, they are 100% owned by their local government. And some of the other projects where we see that there is a healthy requirement, we go to our clients and ensure that we have a healthy completely backing up our payments and then only we start our projects. So from a payment security, we are fully secured.

We'll take the next question from the line of Harshil Pareek from Equitas Capital.

Sir, our gross margins have improved substantially this quarter on a Q-o-Q basis as well as on a Y-o-Y basis. So what are the key reasons for the same? And is this gross margin sustainable?

See we have given already a medium-term outlook of 13% to 15% in terms of our EBITDA margins, and we are in that band. This will obviously move between quarters and between years depending on the mix of projects, but this is the band we expect to take. And with the quality of projects that we have, we are confident about this.

So sir, the improvement in gross margin in this quarter can it be linked to the higher international revenues in this quarter? Is my assumption correct?

See the EP project mix, international project mix, so all of these are dynamics. Yes, it would be right to attribute it to a higher international mix.

Yes, sir. Sir, any update on the One City – One Operator scheme, like when there will be more order or more cities will be awarded in this scheme?

I think we can say that now we have completed almost 4.5 years of this pilot project of Agra, Ghaziabad. There's definitely a belief that this is a way forward for most of the local bodies. We see some new projects are getting conceived, and we will bid during this fiscal year. We also have recently participated in fairly large Once City – One Operator projects in the Middle East market. So yes, this is a contract type. This is something which we see as getting popular, not only in India, but also internationally.

Sir, INR 6,000 crores preferred bidder which you said, does that include any awards under this One City – One Operator kind of scheme?

Not yet. It will definitely include some of our O&M, but some of the One City – One Operator, we have not put under this category because this is large projects. Let's wait for further progress before we fancy our chances.

Okay. Sir, I have once more question, if you allow.

I think you can join the queue. I think you have already taken many more than two. So give others chance and come back.

Mr. Pareek, I would request you to kindly rejoin for follow-up. The next question is from the line of Aejas Lakhani from Unifi Capital.

Rajiv Mittal, credit to you and the team for reallocating these resources in what would have been an otherwise slow quarter in India to the international market so that we are seeing good revenue uptake. So it's credit to you and the team. Sir, my first question is that could you just speak about how the pace of execution and regulating for India looks for the rest of the 9 months? And also, could you quantify what has been the EP mix in revenues this quarter versus the same maybe?

Let me answer the first one, and I'll leave it to my colleague, Skanda, to answer the second one. See the pace is now the time to pick up pace. As we said, general elections are behind us, budget is behind us, very soon the monsoon will be behind us, this is the best period for execution from September till March, best period. So naturally, we always see that the pace of execution in the second half is always far, far better than in the first half. So with all these orders with us, order of pipeline also pretty full, engineering on some of the projects is more or less complete. So now we are in the phase of ordering, delivery and pipe work. And we definitely assume that the pace will be far better than what we have seen till now.

Sure, sir. And sir, on the second question, the EP mix this quarter versus last quarter, same time?

See it's not a quarter-over-quarter to track, but we are well in line with our strategy. We said at least 1/3 of our EPC revenues would come out of EP. And in this quarter, we are much better than that because the main contributors have been the SIBUR project, which is an EP; the Senegal project, which is also an EP.

Okay. Okay. And Skanda, a follow-up on that. This will be on Senegal, you said the commissioning and installation will take place in the second quarter. So we should see good revenue uptake from those specific projects in second quarter and onwards, right?

Aejas, this is an EP project, Senegal as well as SIBUR, where our work is engineering, procurement and we only supervise the installation commissioning. So majority of the deliveries will be completed in Q2. And after that, it is the client's work in terms of completing civils, giving us brands for supervising. So that is a small part, but a large part of the revenues on these projects will be done by Q2.

Got it. And the third one is, could you speak a little bit about the HAM project? Anything on that front?

I think status quo, that projects are moving well. The Kolkata one is commissioned. We are just working with the client for the COD. We'll start any moment, maybe next month onwards, COD is our expectation. The Patna one, the DK same should happen by end of this year. And same is thing for GNN, which also should happen by end of this year.

Got it. Mr. Mittal, you spoke last quarter about $1 billion in guide. And the pipeline that we have built with those mega projects of 200 million odd. And at the opening, you mentioned INR 6,000 crores is the pipeline that we are seeing for India and international. So could you help me explain what is the difference?

Yes, I think what I told you a quarter back, I'm giving an update of that saying what we had bid, we are likely to convert at least half of it we can see very clearly as a concrete pipeline. To me, I'm very happy about the way my team has converted the $1 billion to at least a concrete pipeline of $0.5 billion and more is yet to come, which it will take maybe another quarter to see the status of others. So I think as one of our friends said, I'm definitely satisfied that the strategy we adopted to shift some of our resources while India was slowing down for 6 months pre-election and post-election till the budget, I think it has paid rich dividends to us for the strategy we took in shifting our resources from India to the Middle East market.

Okay. And just lastly sir...

Mr. Lakhani, I'm sorry to interrupt, sir. I will request to kindly rejoin for follow-up, please.

I just have one follow-up...

Sir, there are other participants waiting for their turn actually. [Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Dhiraj Ram from Ashika Stock Broking.

Sir, can you hear me?

Yes.

Yes, sir, much clear.

Sir, recently, Welspun Enterprises has secured a wastewater treatment plant in Bhandup of 2,000 MLD. So just wanted to know did Wabag bid for this project? Or what was the reason for not be able to securing this project?

No. We -- as we said, we have certain criteria to select our projects. So this project did not fit into our criteria. There are 7 plants in BMC. This is only 1 you are mentioning. There are 7 plants, and we did not bid for any of them because it did not fit into our criteria for intake.

Got it, sir. And once last question. We have recently secured a project in Bangladesh. So how are we seeing the execution process in it? Are we seeing any hamper in the execution already?

No, it should not be. As they call it Sonar Bangla, I believe that it will remain as Sonar Bangla. These are normal things in the developing economies, which too happen. But I'm very happy the way it has been controlled and navigated through. Yes, for the safety, we have evacuated our Indian team from the project site, but our local team is very much there to supervise and continue the work. And as soon as the situation feels -- we feel is safe and also clearance from our embassy, we will move back our team. So I don't see this is going to be a major setback. Yes, for a month or so, our team will not be there. But again, we have a local team who can continue the work.

We'll take the next question from the line of Kaushik Poddar from KB Capital Markets Private Limited.

Yes. See, your stated aim is to grow around 15% to 20%. What kind of employee strength growth do you see for achieving such kind of revenue growth?

Yes, I think this is a very, very good question, and we always talk about this internally. See we don't believe that our topline numbers should be directly proportional to our employee growth. We want to grow in our efficiencies. We want to grow in our productivity. We want to go into more digitization. All this will give us growth without really the need of growing the employees proportionately. Yes, some growth will be required, especially when we are going to the new markets, new geographies, new businesses, but it will be far, far lower than the growth on the top number because our efficiencies are growing. We are saying we're taking bigger projects. Ticket size of the projects are growing, which does not need the same number of people as 10 of small projects would be. So when we are growing in ticket size, we are growing in our system, we are growing in digitization, I think we expect the growth of employees will be far, far lower than the proportionate growth anybody else would expect.

And secondly, the stress area of pure water for hydrogen, CBG and all those things, do you have the technology for such kind of pure water and all this stuff?

See, if Wabag has a pure-play advanced technology company doesn't have, I don't know who has because...

No. But you also said that you're trying to build up some tie-up with some other biggies in this field or something, if I heard you correctly.

We have no ego, I think, Kaushik. I just want to be humble and say, yes, like it was not our focus area of semiconductor. We have built a plant a few years back in Qatar for semiconductor -- for water. So we have a reference. But in the meantime, if somebody has something better, why not get the best in the market and offer it to the client. But that doesn't mean we don't have it. We are always open to learn and adopt if somebody has something better. But we have our own technologies, and we have put a plant which are in operation. And same is with hydrogen. What it needs, it needs more desalination. It needs to remove salt, which can scale the electrodes. We are already doing desalination. The Asia's largest project we are doing in Chennai. Now maybe we have to do one more step of polishing it to further reduce the TDS, which is lower than the drinking water TDS. And those technologies are simple. Just we have to add one more step. So I don't think any of this, like you said, CBG, we already are for 4 decades producing biogas. So far, we have been burning in the engine, generating electricity. Now we have to pump into pipeline to get a higher value of that product. For that, there is an add-on step of further cleaning up the biogas before you ingest into a pipeline. That extra step, we will do. But it's nothing that we don't have, and we have it for decades now in Wabag Group.

The next question is from the line of Manish from Equity at Work Family Office.

Sir, our guidance for current fiscal, which is definitely going to take a topline growth...

May I request to use the handset, please. Your voice is muffled.

Is it okay now? Is it better?

Manish, sir, your voice is muffled, I'll request you to use your handset, please, sir.

I'm using my handset only.

Okay, you may proceed now.

Sir, our guidance for current fiscal, which is about 15% to 20%, our guidance still there, right? We maintain that.

Yes. Whatever we have given guidance in the last quarter, we maintain that.

And sir, what is the update on Chennai project? What is the revenue recognition so far? And what is the completion timeline for Chennai project?

As I said, I don't know when I was talking, you were present or not. I clearly mentioned that it's progressing well. It's on time, within budget. We have talked about it. We have said that engineering, we have peaked. We have started concreting. We have started ordering the long lead items. The deliveries will start from the end of this quarter. We'll peak in next fiscal year. We will also start marine works in the next fiscal year. All that I had mentioned in my speech.

Sir, what is the net debt as on 30th of June?

Maybe couple of hundred crores. We don't have a huge debt. We have told you before, we don't have. And we -- our intention is not to have any long-term debt. If there is some debt, it's just to cover some mismatch in cash flow. So we don't have a very high debt.

Working capital also quite smooth, right?

Yes, it is. It's always. After the fourth quarter, it takes maybe 3 to 4 months to collect the money. As I told to one of our friends just before you that you will see all what we are talking in the next balance sheet when we publish in September.

Sir, last question...

Mr. Manish, I'm sorry to interrupt, sir. You will have to rejoin for follow-up, please. There is a long queue. We'll take the next question from the line of Dhimant Shah from ITI Mutual Fund.

Just two questions, sir. One is, in terms of peak Q1 capability globally, we ranked fifth. Now if you compare ourselves with the top 4 as per GW certification, any critical gaps yet to be covered in terms of acquiring capability and know-how for addressing a particular subset like the semiconductor, which you just mentioned? So any areas that you critically -- and this can happen as and when the opportunity arises. So if you can help me with that, please?

Dhimant, first, I'd like to clarify, when you say we are fifth, we are fifth in desalination. But if you see the total water sector, especially serving all the human beings and being upheld to the society, serving almost 88 million people across the globe, we are #3, okay? Now coming to the technologies, whether it is desal or total water management, and we are proud to be the only Asian company in this top 3 and top 5, whether it's top 3 in total water management, top 3 -- 5 in desalination. See, just 2 companies are above us. One is the Veolia the French. Another is the Chinese, the Beijing Water. Now we -- in a short span, we have reached this position. Naturally, we are second to none in terms of technology. Just that today, whether we are third or fifth in desalination, like you mentioned very clearly -- sorry, it depends on the opportunities, like desalination was never an opportunity for India. It's only of late, recently, we started getting some opportunities, and we have excelled in that. We are a leader in the Indian market and now we are penetrating in the MEA market, which is Africa, just now we commissioned a plant in Tunisia, which -- we were honored that the president of the country comes personally to inaugurate that plant. Our Chennai project, our Saudi project, all these are testaments to our capability in terms of technology. And if you ask technology, there is no gap. If you talk about the prequalification, there is no gap gather. So it's only that probably we are late entrant to this sector or this vertical. Hence, we have some catch-up to do, which we're catching up pretty fast. Same thing in the water side. If you talk about technology, we are second to none. Our balance sheet over the years has also become very strong. So I don't feel that we find any barriers for prequalifying for any projects in India or internationally.

Super. And in terms of the next 2, 3 years, in particular, because that would also mean that you kind of achieve your -- closer to your stated goal of 15%, 16% EBITDA margin sustainable with certain topline growth trajectory. Now if one scans the opportunity side, do you think the Middle East geography, the Indian geography or the rest of the world offers you a better landscape and as far as this? So how would you spread because you have limited man, material resources to address the total size that you can handle with them? So how would you go about allocating your resources? What is the...

See, we have no target geography wise. We have given you that 15%, 20% topline growth we are looking at, 13% to 15% EBITDA we are looking at. And for next year, we are looking at INR 15,000 to INR 16,000 crores of order book. And just now we said that INR 6,000 crores is already we are preferred bidder. So these are the statements which should give enough confidence to investors like you that what we commit, we will deliver. And that's the reason we continuously give you an update on quarter-on-quarter at least so that you can also monitor our progress compared to the guidance we have given.

But despite that, certain geographies like last time you had mentioned that the Middle East gives you a better flavor as far as the O&M goes as a part of the overall mix. So you could be tilting towards that side. So any color on that, if you can?

See, that is, again, one of the stated goals, Dhimant, that we want to be at least 50% international, at least of our total revenue, which I think we are very confident we'll be better than that. We will be more and with the markets opening up and ease of business for us where we meet all the prequalifications, clients likes our company, we think we have a great opportunity internationally also in addition to India. In those times, we'll have to judge which ones gives a better revenues, better profitability, better cash flow, lower risk. Those are the projects we have on the tools and bid for it and win those projects. But this is a stated goal that internationally, we will be at least 50% and India will be the balance 50%.

Perfect. And just a small clarification. In terms of our capability, do we also address ETP, FTP both, if you can just give us that?

No. No Dhimant, this -- in water, there's nothing we don't do. We are a total water management company. Complete gamut. On the municipal side as well as the industrial side, we do everything. So there is no gaps in our offering.

Perfect. So now last question, I mean, associated because it's -- so if you just kind of see desalt, ETP and FTP as separate buckets, would you want to kind of in future, would you want to kind of spell out where the size of opportunity is bigger for you?

See, for us, it's very clearly, Dhimant, we are into advanced technology. We have more than 125 IPR rights, trademarks. So naturally, our tilt will be more technologically challenging projects. And our technology challenging projects are more going into desalt and water reuse or we call it manufactured water. So naturally, our tilt being a technology company will be more towards desalt and water reuse.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Khushbu Gandhi from Share India Securities.

Just one question from my side. Basically, now since we are focusing more on the European side of the projects and MEA side of countries. So are we looking over there more of EP and O&M side? Are we focusing that going forward, our EP would be -- which is a ratio of 1/3 of EPC would be increasing to 1/2 of EPC in next 2 to 3 years?

See, Khushbu, just to clarify, we are not focusing on the Europe geographies. We have defocused. Today, close to 0 is our European exposure. Just to clarify, our focus will remain on our core markets, emerging economies, India, Middle East, Africa, Southeast Asia and CIS countries. That is where we will stay focused. Yes, you are right. When we go internationally, there is an opportunity to have EP projects more, but that will not be the only focus of determining whether or not to take a project, while we will be happy to take out the construction portion if the rest of the parameters are met and EPC project is also something that we will do. Of course, we will have construction partnerships. We have given you a guidance of at least 1/3 of the EPC coming from EP. Yes, in certain quarters, the propensity may be higher on EP versus EPC. Like for example, this quarter, we had much more than 1/3. There may be a quarter where EPC may be higher. But we will at least like to keep it at 1/3. And of course, we'll always be happy and open to increasing this part, which is also part of our strategy.

Sir, my second question is on the O&M front. Right now, we have a good O&M order book. But are you getting repetitive orders for the O&M? Or are we bagging any new orders only for the O&Ms because our focus is to increase our share of O&M going forward? So what are you over there?

Obviously, as a 100-year-old company, celebrating centenary year, we can't be only looking for new orders. We have to retain our existing customers. That means we are getting a lot of repeat orders, both on EPC and on O&M. At the same time, we are increasing our customer base. That's how we are growing. We are also increasing our geographical base. But existing clients are of tremendous value to us and we try our best endeavors to retain them.

Ms. Gandhi, does that answer your question, ma'am?

Yes.

The next question is from the line of [indiscernible].

Am I audible?

Yes, sir, please proceed.

My question is with respect to the consolidated plan for FY '24. In that, our warranty expenses and our liquidated damages are taken together are close to INR 100 crores or so. And they are substantially higher than these total expense over the past 4 to 5 years. So just wanted to -- guidance on how should we read or understand this number?

See, -- so yes, the warranty will vary between years because this is dependent on project completion. When the project comes to an end, especially large projects when they come to end and enter the fixed liability period, we will create warranty provisions. You've seen over the last few years that slowly our older projects are coming to a close. So these projects will require warranty to go through the fixed liability period. But this is a very project-specific term. And there are some projects where we will completely be done. We may not need so much of warranty, then maybe back-to-back warranties with our vendors. In some cases, there'll be some punchless points for which we'll have to make warranty. So it is project specific. But as projects get completed, there may be years where the warranty expenses will be higher.

Okay, sir. I understand that for warranty. For liquidated damages also, would it be a similar case?

See, LDs are specific project cases. And when we say LD, this is typically debit from the customer that would come. So in case there are costs, which are incurred and debited to us, there may be short certification of invoices towards the end of closure of the project. From an accounting perspective, it is booked debt but it is typically not, let's say, a failure from our side. So it should not be seen that way. Take that as part of overall direct costs. And that's -- we have taken all of this into consideration when we have guided our 13% to 15% margin range.

The next question is from the line of Sharon, an individual investor.

Congratulations on 100th year. My first question is tentatively from when do you see orders coming from semiconductor and hydrogen sector? Tentatively from which quarter or which month?

See, I think, Sharon, this is two areas which are under development. Semiconductor is a little faster because there are a lot of manufacturing investment happening. So one can expect that end of this year, early next year, we can see something coming from semiconductor. But hydrogen is still in the development phase. Still, it is not commercially viable, okay? So any investment is happening, the governments are investing just to meet their carbon reduction numbers they have agreed globally. But we feel that with a lot of investment going into this hydrogen, manufacturing of electrodes, maybe in 1 year, 1.5 years, it will become more economically viable and that time, we will see more orders coming in.

Sure, sir. Yes, that helps. And another question I have is bio-CNG. Do you execute bio-CNG only from the wastewater or any other waste also your bio-CNG system is capable to integrate or compatible?

See, bio-CNG, you produce biologically. The bugs don't care what is the waste as long as they see organic matter in it. Technically speaking, yes, we are open to get any waste, which is rich in organic. But so far, we have limited our offering to wastewater, maybe municipal, which is the sewerage or industrial wastewater. We have limited our offering, but we are open to take any other raw material which is available for biogas production.

Okay, sir. And the last request I have just wanted to check, since you completed 100th year. And in this celebration, any plans to give back to shareholders in the form of bonus or buyback or split of the shares?

See, one thing is very clear. We are all here for enhancing the values of the shareholders. And in what form, how? I don't know. That board has to decide. But one thing is clear that the return on your investment in our company is our responsibility, and we are here to enhance your return on capital employed in Wabag.

The next question is from the line of Sree Harsha an individual investor.

Congratulations on reporting a good set of numbers. So my first question is with regard to the arbitration award that was granted for one project. Has that money been received by the company?

Not yet. Indian system is a little slow. Arbitration award came in, the opponent has raised certain objection to the award and which is getting cleared up. We have to see our legal system how quickly they can clear up. But once it is cleared up, we will receive our money. So it is still under removing the objection raised by the losing party.

Okay. Sir, I'd like to have another question. With regard to the sale of the VA Tech Wabag Romanian company. You have also received a dividend of EUR 8.46 million, being accumulated net worth of the subsidiary company. So is it that the -- is it that the total inflow from the sale of the subsidiary come to -- at a total of EUR 3.66 million being the total of the dividend and the proceeds for the sale?

See, Mr. Sree Harsha, about EUR 8.5 million, we have received a dividend from the Romanian subsidiary to its parent, VA Tech Wabag Austria. And over and above that, we've also received EUR 1.2 million, which is the same consideration. So both of these are the results of the divestment that we have done. You're right.

We'll take the next question from the line of Alka Bhattacharjee, an Individual Investor. I'm sorry, you're not audible. As the current participant is not answering, we will move on to the next question, which is from the line of Siddharth Purohit from InvesQ Investment Advisors Private Limited.

Sir, just one clarification. In the previous year, we had onetime income due to the divestment of the subsidiary. This quarter also broadly, we had one income regarding that. So are there any more such subsidiaries or units likely to be divested? Or what is the strategy in that?

See, we are very clear. We have told you earlier also and today also that we want to focus on the emerging markets. So there were 5 subsidiaries in Europe, which is a stagnant market and increasing cost and risk and less opportunities, so we have divested 3 in the last 1 year. The other 2 left, used to be our parent company in Austria, which has all the history. So they are like a mother company, they will remain. There's no intention to diversify them. And the last one is Turkey in Istanbul. They are already a cost center because they are very good in providing engineering. So a lot of engineering and support for proposal work is done in the Istanbul office. They would also remain, supporting the growth in our endeavor to take more projects. So no further divestment is planned at least in the foreseeable future. We're investing in new companies, opening up new branch offices, opening up new companies with regard to growing in the emerging markets. So we are putting an extra resources for growth what we have planned for the growth in the next few years.

Okay. And sir, since we might have a little higher income from the rest of the world, what will be the normalized tax rate that we might see in the coming years?

Are you saying normalized tax rate?

Yes.

See, we will largely be around 25%. But even internationally, the tax rates are kind of converging to this level. So -- and between India and the rest of the world, if you take Saudi Arabia, if you take African countries where we may do through branches or subsidiaries, I think about 25% would be the broad annum.

The next question is from the line of Manish from Equity at Work Family Office.

Hello?

Yes, please.

Please proceed.

Sir, totally profound question that I have, sir, maybe -- I mean, you have INR 8,000 crores, right? And I mean without naming it, our closest competitor is valued at INR 10,000 crores. So what explains the dichotomy in valuation at this juncture?

This you should answer, how we can decide that. You are the people who are valuing the company, you have your reasons, you have your metrics, you have your model. We are only watching what you guys are doing. We have no explanation to that.

[Operator Instructions] As there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Mittal for closing comments. Over to you, sir.

Thank you. Thank you, guys, for a very active interaction. And thank you once again for your participation in our Q1 FY '25 earnings call. We have uploaded the analyst presentation in our website. In case you have any further queries, you may get in touch directly with Adfactors IR advisers, our investor relation adviser based in Mumbai, or you can also get in touch with us directly. Thank you. Bye-bye.

Thank you very much, sir. Thank you, members of the management. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of VA Tech Wabag, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.