Varun Beverages Limited (VBL.NS) Q4 FY2025 Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Varun Beverages Limited Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Anoop Poojari from CDR India. Thank you, and over to you, Mr. Poojari.

Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us on Varun Beverages Q4 and CY 2025 Earnings Conference Call. We have with us Mr. Ravi Jaipuria, Chairman of the company; Mr. Varun Jaipuria, Executive Vice Chairman and Whole-Time Director; and Mr. Raj Gandhi, President and Whole-Time Director of the company. We initiate the call with opening remarks from the management, following which we'll have the forum open for a question-and-answer session. Before we begin, I would like to point out that some statements made in today's call may be forward-looking in nature, and a disclaimer to this effect has been included in the results presentation shared with you earlier. I would now request Mr. Ravi Jaipuria to make his opening remarks.

Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us on our earnings conference call. I hope you had a chance to review our results presentation for the fourth quarter and year ended 31st December 2025. CY 2025 was marked by steady execution despite weather-related disruptions in India during the peak summer season. For the full year, consolidated volumes grew by 7.9%, driving revenue growth of 8.4% and EBITDA growth of 7.2%, while PAT increased by 16.2% to INR 30,620.4 million, reflecting the resilience of our business model and the strength of our on-ground execution. Volume growth in India was impacted during parts of the year due to unprecedented heavy rainfall throughout the year. However, performance improved marginally -- meaningfully in quarter 4 with domestic volumes growing up by 10.5%, reflecting the strength of our wide distribution network and strong brand portfolio. The greenfield plants and backward integration facilities commissioned during the year are progressively stabilizing and are expected to support higher volumes and operating leverage in the upcoming season. Our international operations continued to scale well, led by Africa International volumes grown by 10% in quarter 4 with South Africa delivering healthy volume growth, supported by expansion in general trade reach, addition to visi-coolers and continued progress on backward integration and capacity enhancement, strengthening supply chain efficiency and cost competitiveness. During the year, we announced the proposed acquisition of Twizza in South Africa, subject to regulatory and other approvals. The company has 3 manufacturing facilities, including backward integration, which will significantly enhance our manufacturing footprint and route-to-market capabilities in Africa's largest soft drink market, while offering meaningful synergies with our existing operations. We also continued to expand our product portfolio and categories. The snacks business in Morocco has ramped up well. Distribution of snacks in Zimbabwe and Zambia is gaining traction. Our balance sheet remains strong, supported by healthy cash flows, providing flexibility to support organic expansion, invest in cold-chain and distribution infrastructure and pursue value-accretive strategic opportunities. In line with our commitment to delivering value to our shareholders, the Board has recommended a final dividend of INR 0.50 per equity share, subject to shareholders' approval. Looking forward, we remain confident in the long-term growth potential across India and our international markets, supported by favorable demographics and rising incomes and backward (sic) [ backed ] by adequate capacities, a diversified portfolio and a strong distribution network, we believe we are well positioned to deliver sustained and profitable growth and create long-term value for all stakeholders. I would now like to invite Mr. Gandhi to share the key highlights of our operational and financial performance. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good afternoon, and a warm welcome to everyone joining us today. Let me provide an overview of the financial performance for the fourth quarter and the year ended 31st December 2025. Revenue from operations adjusted for excise and GST increased by 8.4% to the level of INR 216,853 million in CY 2025, in line with steady volume growth. Consolidated sales volumes grew by 7.9% to a level of 1,213 million cases as compared to 1,124 million cases in the CY 2024. In Q4 CY 2025, consolidated sales volumes increased by 10.2% to 237.1 million cases from 215.1 million cases in Q4 CY 2024. The growth was supported by healthy performance across both India and international markets with India volumes growing by 10.5% and international volumes by 10% during the quarter. For the full year, CSD contributed 73.9%, non-carbonated beverages 5.9% and packaged drinking water 20.2% to the total consolidated sales volume. In CY 2025, the mix of low sugar and no sugar products increased to the level of approximately 59% of consolidated volumes, reflecting our continuous focus on healthier beverage offerings. Net realization per case improved by 3.4% in Q4 CY 2025 to INR 177.3 driven by improved realization in international territories. For CY 2025, net realization per case increased marginally by 0.5% to INR 178.8. Our gross margin for the full year remained largely stable at 55.2% compared to 55.5% in the previous year. EBITDA for CY 2025 increased by 7.2% to the level of INR 50,493.7 million, with EBITDA margins at 23.3% as against 23.5% in CY 2024. During the quarter, the Government of India notified the 4 labor codes consolidating the existing labor laws, resulting in an incremental cost impact of INR 14 crores roughly, which has been recognized under employee benefits expense. This impact was absorbed within our overall operating performance. In Q4 CY 2025, EBITDA increased by 10.2% to the level of INR 6,329 million (sic) [ INR 6,392.6 million ], reflecting improved operating leverage as volumes recovered. Profit after tax for CY 2025 grew by 16.5% (sic) [ 16.2% ] to the level of INR 30,692.5 million (sic) [ INR 30,620.4 million ] from the earlier level of INR 26,342.8 million in CY 2024. This is driven by volume growth, lower finance costs and higher other income, including interest from deposits in India and favorable currency movement in international operations. PAT for Q4 CY 2025 increased by 36.6% (sic) [ 32.9% ] to the level of INR 2,672 million [ INR 2,600 million]. Depreciation increased by 28.4% during the year, primarily on account of commissioning of new greenfield plants in India and brownfield expansion in international territories. Following repayment of debt from QIP proceeds, finance cost in India remains negligible. In the international markets, finance cost is primarily attributable to South Africa, including fair value adjustments of leases under Ind AS 116. During CY 2025, we capitalized new CapEx of approximately INR 45,000 million, of which approximately INR 16,500 million was incurred in CY 2024. This primarily included CapEx of around INR 17,000 million towards setting up 4 greenfield production facilities in India at Prayagraj in UP, Buxar in Bihar, Damtal in Himachal Pradesh and Mendipathar in Meghalaya.We also incurred approximately INR 3,000 million towards brownfield expansion in Sricity & Gorakhpur in India. In international markets, CapEx of about INR 13,000 million was incurred, which included commissioning of a PET line and backward integration facilities in DRC, setting up of snack manufacturing facilities in Morocco and Zimbabwe. And installation of new CAN line in South Africa. The balance CapEx comprised investment in visi-coolers, glass bottles, pallets, vehicles, write-offs and impact of foreign exchange fluctuations. As on December 31, 2025, capital work in progress and capital advances stood at the approximate level of INR 5,500 million (sic) [ INR 5,400 million ] largely pertaining to ongoing phase-wise expansion projects and sport infrastructure across domestic and international operations for 2026 or 2027 season. As on 31st December 2025, the India business continued to remain net debt-free with free cash of approximately INR 12,250 million. At the consolidated level, net debt stood at a very negligible level of INR 256 million at the year-end. During the year, CRISIL upgraded the company's long-term credit rating to AAA/stable, reflecting the strength of our balance sheet and cash flow profile. Looking ahead, with the stabilization of newly commissioned capacities, expanding backward integration, strengthening distribution and cold chain infrastructure and a diversified product portfolio across beverages and snacks, we remain well positioned to drive sustainable growth, improved operating leverage and deliver consistent performance across domestic and international markets. On that note, I come to an end of our opening remarks and would like to now ask the moderator to open the forum for any questions or suggestions that you may have.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Abneesh Roy from Nuvama Wealth Management.

My first question is on the India business. If I see India volumes have grown double digit, 10.5%, but India sales has grown around 6%. So there's a gap of 4.5%. If you could explain how is the mix? I do understand the CSD, water and all that. But within those segments, how was the mix? And second, what will be the outlook, say, in March quarter on this? Do you still expect the pricing mix to be slightly negative? Because I do see gross margin also being slightly down by around 30, 40 bps. So that's my first question.

Abneesh, the margin of 4% lower is because the mix doesn't change that much. We -- for us, very important is when the season was bad, the year was bad and everybody due to competitive scenario was -- the competitive scenario, everyone was trying to discount the product. Instead of that, we focused on the market. We upgraded a few of these packs and maintained not only now and for all times past 30 years history of volume growth, which is paramount for us, say, 4% in the off-season in an otherwise weak quarter is not that important. And in a busy season, you will see that such type of increase will offset -- increased volume will offset any cost.

If you look at it, overall, we have always said each quarter cannot be looked at. And if you look at the full year with the worst season this year coming in '25 with the rains and the highest competition coming. If you look at it, we have still gained in overall margins with a 2% sales volume growth, we have still -- our EBITDA margins have not gone down, rather gone up. So we have always said that this is high EBITDA margins. We have always maintained 21%, 22% margins, but we are still doing much better than that. And we believe going forward also, with the -- hopefully, this season opening up, there should be much better margins and much better growth coming this year. I mean, temporarily, each quarter cannot be the reflecting point.

Understood. So that was my next question. You said the season seems to be opening up. And last calendar year, we did see most of the summer categories see very unfavorable climate, which could of course correct this year. So any initial expectation, how do you see this quarter and next quarter given base is a bit favorable. I do understand the second quarter of the calendar year, the 15% growth is there, but that was on a very soft base. So next 2 quarters, you have a very soft base. Any comments on how you see demand?

But the first quarter was a decent base last year also. So we grew at 17%, 18% last year. So first quarter, the base was not soft. Yes, the second and third quarter last year were very soft, which are our main quarters. So that's where -- but what I'm saying is even after having a very soft 2 quarters, and our volume only growing 2%, we have maintained our EBITDA and margins have gone up. And even after adding 4 new plants, which have added to our costs considerably, we have made sure that we have maintained our margins. So hopefully, with a little favorable weather, we only see much better projections this year and not weaker.

Next question is from the line of Devanshu Bansal from Emkay Global.

Congratulations for a good volume growth pickup. Sir, as you mentioned, in quarters with low seasonal variations, our volume growth has returned to 10%, which was visible in both Q1 and Q4. Now that the base is comfortable as the peak season was impacted, just checking, would mid-teen kind of volume growth in CY '26 be a tall task or this is an achievable number if the season sort of remains as per the normal trend?

Well, we've always said double-digit growth in India is not looking impossible, and we still stick to that. And I think there's no reason why this year we should not get that. Unfortunately, we've never had rains like we've had in the last year. So if reasonable weather is there, there's no reason why we should not have the double-digit growth, which we are anticipating.

Yes, sir, sir, double digit, you have maintained in normal years. So since the base was only 1%, 2% growth. So that's the reason I was checking, can we improve the outlook towards mid-teen or we will still like to maintain that double-digit comment?

We would like to maintain that, but you can pray to the weather gods and hopefully, we'll do better.

Sure, sir. Sure. Secondly, we always used to provide some data around our distribution expansion in the Q4 PPT. But this time around, that data is not available. So if you could throw some light as in where our distribution network currently stands at and how many visi-coolers we have placed for the year?

Well, we feel that we are compatible to the industry, and we are providing as much or more than what the industry requires. And the figures we don't feel it is necessary to be given every time. So we have not given this time.

Sure. But the expansion would have happened, right?

It just leads to be -- unfortunately gives information to our competition, which we would not like to give. And we've been expanding and we are doing what is required for the market, and we have been putting the visi-coolers and expanding our routes as per required in the market.

That's fair. That's fair, Mr. Jaipuria. Last question, I wanted to understand the revenue contribution from Snacks in CY '25. And because we have recently commissioned a plant in Zimbabwe as well. So what is the run rate that we are foreseeing for this business in CY '26?

INR 340 crores.

So the snack food revenue has been INR 340 crores for the year 2025. So I think 2026, we'll have a much better realization of that because Morocco only started May, June. And by the time it really got commissioned and ramped up, it was already the fourth quarter. And Zimbabwe actually has just started in December. So I think this Zimbabwe will have a full year this year. So we expect much better and much higher volumes in '26.

Sure. Sir, just a small bookkeeping question. So whatever the volumes that we report for our international business, this does not have any contribution of snacks, right? So I just wanted to check as in -- from a bookkeeping modeling perspective, how should be...

It has snacks volume also in it -- value in it.

Okay. Excluding that, if you could give us some perspective as in like-to-like, what is the volume for beverages -- international beverages in CY '25?

It would make a very small difference because the total volume is INR 300-odd crores in value. So it will be very small. It will be -- it doesn't -- in volume, it will not really make any...

Next question is from the line of Percy Panthaki from IIFL Securities.

Just trying to get some idea on your India margins. So CY '25, we have reported an all-time high India EBITDA margin or rather stand-alone EBITDA margin of close to 26%. Now going ahead into CY '26, there are a couple of opposing forces. One is the volume value gap, which might, to some extent, continue in CY '26 as well, which will put some downward pressure on the margins. On the other hand, you will have a higher sort of volume growth, which will generate some amount of operating leverage. So how do you see these 2 forces interacting? Will it be a net positive, net negative? And how do you see margins for next year? I know you have been earlier stating that India margins are quite healthy and we can maintain 22%, 23%. But now we are at 26%. And frankly, no one takes that 22%, 23% number seriously. So if you can give some realistic sort of guidance for CY '26, it will be very helpful.

Realistically, if we can maintain anywhere close to this, I think we should be very happy. These are actually much better than any normal numbers in soft drink industry. So we will be very happy if we can maintain anywhere close to these numbers. But our guidance has always been 22%, 23%, has never been higher than that. And I still hope we can -- with the volumes coming this year, we should be able to maintain our margins somewhere close to this.

Very, very helpful, sir. And yes, I must commend you for the great work you have done in terms of bringing up the India margins. Second question is on the international business. Can you give some kind of idea on -- I mean, the foods business, while this year is whatever INR 250 crores, INR 300 crores kind of a number, how do we build in growth here? I mean, if you can't give an exact guidance here, at least help us think about how to approach this topic in terms of either market sizes, market shares or capacities or any other way as to how to think about this, where this INR 250 crores or INR 300 crores, where can this number be over a 2- to 3-year period?

Well, I think, first of all, it's a bit too early because there's only 1 market where we have been -- we've had at least 6 months of manufacturing. The other one is only maybe 2 weeks. So it's too early to really say. Although we have been in the market distributing, but producing and distributing is 2 different scenarios. So I think give us a couple of quarters to really give you the right feedback. But -- on a general tone, I think there is -- the markets are large enough. And we expect at least high teens or even higher than that growth coming. So -- but on a number, a couple of years, I think for this to go to close to $100 million is not an unforeseen number. So -- but that's what can happen with 2 of these 3 territories, I mean. But that's what it looks like, but give us a little more time to understand the market better, but growth will be very high and good.

Next question is from the line of Latika Chopra from JPMorgan.

The first question, just wanted to bring the focus back on realization for India business. And the purpose was in the last few months, we did see upsizing of your INR 20 pack, right, from 250 mL to 400. And I think this is -- assuming this in going -- this will continue going into the season, do you think this volume value gap will sustain or it could even worsen from here? And the second bit I wanted to understand was, any thoughts on -- would you like to play the INR 10 price point more aggressively in the coming season?

So first of all, this upsizing had started in the season itself. The main effect of our marginal difference is because of the seasonality and because of the low growth -- volume growth and our expenses have gone up because of 4 new plants coming up by the end of the season this year in '25. So -- and we have not been able to get any benefit out of those plants. So -- which we believe we'll start getting this year, and we expect volume growth to be reasonably healthy. And because of that, we don't see any marginal dilution. And even though the upsizing has happened and because of that, we expect the volumes to be much higher, and that will cover up our marginal issue. We are quite bullish on this year because after having -- going through such a nasty year, which was really the worst year we have seen in the last few years in our industry.

Sure. No, my question was actually more on realization. So maybe the value growth continues to lag volume growth. And that's what I was trying to understand better. EBITDA margins, I take your point.

Yes, I think it's been a mix of things, right, especially if we look at quarter 4, it's not only because of upsizing, quarter 4 usually after the year people have had the discounting in the market has been much higher. I mean, it's funny that when the volumes don't come in, people end up discounting and throwing the kitchen sink, right? And there's been a lot of capacity, which has been added. . Now going forward, looking at this year as well, what we are seeing at least is that the discounting isn't as rampant compared to what it was because there are a lot of stock buildup, which happens and the stock doesn't get liquidated, then people, of course, put discounts on it. So there's been an impact in quarter 4 that as well. And balance, I mean, yes, we have upsized. So I mean, we are hoping that the volume growth come in for next year and the revenue margins, at least on an absolute basis, we're able to cover up and grow faster. Now how the market reacts and what further pricing happens, that I can't probably answer right now. So that's the first part. The second part of the INR 10 portfolio, we have launched it in some places, which is West Bengal and Northeast. So we'll be very, very surgical with it. We'll not plan to make it a pan-India launch. Wherever we really necessarily need to launch it, we're going to do that. So we're still in early phases right now. We've just launched about 15 days back, and we're waiting to see as the season opens up, how it ends up doing.

That's very clear. The second question I had was if you could share or give some color on broader CapEx plans for CY '26 and share, how would it look for both India and overseas business?

Well, I think India business, we are not looking for any major CapEx this year. We are not putting any plants. We have enough capacity. So there will be very low CapEx in India. Internationally, there will be CapEx mainly in South Africa, but not that large. I think only 1 brownfield capacity is coming up in South Africa, and it won't be very large. So I don't think there will be major CapEx this year except the acquisition of Twizza which we have already announced.

And Latika, just to add to what Chairman has said, the South Africa is going to be a star territory and to totally avail benefit of that and the branding and the market opportunity which is already created, we are going to add 70%, 80% capacity by the inorganic that acquisition of Twizza, which on 21st December, we have already announced. So there, total organic, inorganic, we should see the growth something like maybe 80% or higher.

Next question is from the line of Jay Doshi from Kotak.

Just a small follow-up on the response that you just gave. So In terms of pack upgrades, 250 to 400 mL, is it largely done? I mean, should we assume that for December quarter for the entire portfolio wherever you have plans to increase the pack size, that full impact is visible in the realization of December quarter? And will there be more during the course of this year? So that is one. And second is, I gathered that you've also sort of selectively launched INR 10 price point pack. Any sense you can give us what are your plans for the next year? And will it by any chance be more than 5% of your portfolio in terms of overall volumes? Or will it be consciously restricted to below 5% -- that's it from my side.

So all the upsizing has been practically done in the quarter. And as far as your INR 10 price point, it will be surgical, as my son said, and won't be more than 5%, 7% of our portfolio.

Next question is from Harit Kapoor from Investec.

So just 2 questions. One was on international. Any sense you could give us of what like constant currency kind of growth would be because you're seeing just a 10% growth in volume, but optically looks like a 20% plus growth there on the revenue side. So -- and given what's happened with currency, some sense on how -- what would have been the currency impact this quarter and how we should -- I know it's hard to say, but how can we see it going forward? That's my first question.

First of all, the main currency advantages would come starting from next year because in Africa, we normally carry 3 to 4 months or even sometimes higher than that stock. So those stocks were already paid for at a much higher price, which were bought when the currency was not at that peak. So I think the real currency benefits in operational and cost of operations will start showing from this year onwards. What was the other question, sorry?

Yes. The second one was on India business. So you spoke about the SKU and pack changes. But I just wanted to understand about going into the summer, are there plans in terms of product innovation as well, some white spaces that you probably would not have filled up, et cetera. Anything to look forward to in the next 2 months as you go into the summer? Should that also be something we should be watching for? That's my second question.

Absolutely. No, I think definitely, we are quite clear on our strategy. The advantaged product portfolio, differentiated product portfolio, what we have today, which is working well for us is, of course, energy. So there will be newer launches in flavors and energy as a category. And as you're aware, we've launched the mid-pricing energy, which is Ad Rush (sic) [ Adrenaline Rush ]. That's only been launched a few months back. Given that it was off-season, we will expand it now. And of course, with PepsiCo, work on a very strong customer engagement plan as well, including some ATL monies, which will be spent. So energy, you will see some innovations happening. At the same time, the Jira space has been very exciting. And of course, we've been getting a lot of questions that are we doing something with Jira. So about March, we will be launching our Nimbooz Jira range as well. That's the second thing what we're launching in a big way. And under Nimbooz, which is obviously growing very, very fast for us and doing phenomenally well, we will be launching more flavors and price points in that. So there is a lot of exciting stuff, which is going to be there in the season.

And the last one was on distribution. So while you can't give exact data, but is it fair to understand that CY '25 was a year where distribution expansion may not have been very sharp as you were obviously dealing with a one-off season, and it could be stronger going into CY '26. Is that a correct assumption to be made or that CY '25 was also okay? Just sense.

No, CY '25 was good. See, what happens is that since a large part of your business is still driven through rural markets, those retailers don't end up buying. So even though you end up creating distribution and creating distributors and creating logistics and infrastructure, the buying pattern doesn't really build up because in rural, people don't end up buying. So it's not that you have not increased your reach to those outlets. It's just that a throughput from those outlets, what you expected hasn't come. So there's been a distribution expansion. And for '26 as well, we have gone through the entire exercise of further adding because we believe it's going to be a great season this year. So you will start seeing the offtakes and the impact as the season picks up.

Next question is from the line of Rehan Saiyyed from Trinetra Asset Managers.

So sir, understand regarding your alcoholic beverages....

Sorry, it's not clear. Can you just repeat yourself?

Yes. Am I clear now?

Yes, slightly better. Thank you.

Yes. So I wanted to understand regarding your alcoholic beverages MOA. So you have mentioned that alcoholic beverages in the MOA and the [indiscernible] distribution agreement in [ African ] markets. So sir, how should we think about capital allocation management focus between the core non-alcoholic portfolio and the certain categories over the next few years?

Well, we are starting with Carlsberg in Africa, but it won't be -- the capital allocation will not be so large. It will be -- we'll be starting with 1 plant this year. So the overall capital allocation will be not so large comparative to the overall. And we don't have much CapEx this year anyway.

And second, just one clarification that employee benefit expense grew 22% Y-on-Y....

We're not able to hear you.

We can't hear you properly at all.

Am I clear now?

Yes, better. Yes. So also I want to understand regarding our employee benefit expense, which grew by 22% Y-o-Y in quarter 4, significantly ahead of the revenue growth of 14%. So I want to understand how much of this increase is attributable to new plant staking and international scale up versus wage inflation? And how should we model employee cost as a structurally higher percentage of sales going forward?

See, this is also single-digit date, 8% 9% employee cost, which was incurred for these 4 plants last year, while we could not make use of the same. And apart from that, 2 more things which you mentioned, one, the labor code, which has been implemented past cost of that also has been absorbed in this quarter. Secondly, we had a senior team the -- not exactly senior, top means to a...

We had a VBL 30-year completion celebration and there's a certain cost built in only for this quarter for that event, which is a onetime cost, which has been built in. Hence, you're seeing the increase in the employee cost.

Which is only 1x.

Next question is from the line of Yash Sonthaliya from Edelweiss.

So my question is regarding to better understand what is the cost impact with upsizing of our INR 20 pack? And what will be the cost impact if the revenue mix or the volume mix of INR 10 pack increases to 5% of our sales?

Yash, the -- first of all, 250 to 400, the mix of 250 in the base itself is not more than 10%, 12%. So even if we had to do the 100%, it's going to be 1/10 of the incremental cost. And on the INR 10 pack, what Varun stated, is going to be something which is going to be surgical. However, there this thing is because it's a juice-based. Our star performer, Nimbooz, it's going to be 5% juice, which will entitle us to a duty instead of 40% to 5%. So it's not going to be that impactful, which others may have. And the third is it's going to be healthier product with sugar-free. So we have all the levers with the experience of this industry. I mean whatever we'll be doing will be absolutely profitable that -- and having said the focus is going to be a volume growth like in the past with maintaining the bottom line. However, a little bit here and there can always happen. But broadly is to sail through the way we have been doing in last 30, 40 years.

Understood. Understood, sir. But just for general understanding, like on the 10% portfolio also increasing -- are upscaling from 250 to 400 has 10%, 20% impact on profitability on that part of portfolio? Or my understanding is wrong?

So one, it gives the volume increase and operating leverage. Second, see, what happens is there are a lot of costs which are variable. The GST, which is 40% is variable based upon the selling price. My concentrate price is variable. Then my preparedness on the zero sugar or low sugar is much bigger than others. So it's going to be less than 10%.

And also the discounting varies. So it's not that big impact technically.

Next question is from the line of Rajit Aggarwal from Nilgiri Investments.

My question is related to the international margins. If you can share the EBITDA margin of Twizza, it will be helpful. And also that the June quarter and September quarter, the EBITDA margins declined in the international or ex India operations. This quarter has been somewhat stable. So how do you see that panning out in the next 1 year or so? And with the increasing contribution of international hops, the consolidated margins will go down? I mean -- or do you still see that the impact not be so much? If you can just help me understand the movement in margins...

First of all, Twizza is to be consummated after the Competition Commission approval. Second, in South Africa our struggle is more on the capacity side. And once we get the capacity margins, you can take what we are doing today in South Africa. Same we will have from 3 additional locations. So it will help me, one, the freight inward and freight outward because I will be near the market. Secondly, in Twizza, the land and building are owned by Twizza, as against in BevCo. As we have stated in the past, land building are on rent. And third, the -- this company has got own vehicles as against BevCo, which didn't have. Next, Twizza are enabled or equipped with the solar energy power, which BevCo plants were not there. So margins there, what you can do is as a guidance will be even -- it will be margin accretive for BevCo, capacity accretive and freight reducing because we'll be nearer the market. Instead of 5, we'll be reaching the market from 8 different locations. And with the [indiscernible] size and other things going up, the economies of scale will start accruing to us. Then we'll become a little larger player in that market.

So sir, overall, international margins will still be at similar levels of 16%, 16.5% or we can expect them to inch towards -- more towards the Indian margins?

Towards Indian margin, ultimately, it has to go because backward integration and other initiatives which we are doing should contribute towards that, yes.

So that will be more like a 4- to 5-year kind of horizon or it can be sooner as well?

It will be sooner, but not 4, 5 years, but not -- everything will not take effect immediately. So I would say in the next couple of years.

And a quick clarification on the taxes. The taxes of ex India operations seem to have gone up in this quarter. Can you just help me understand that? It's -- so if you have a PBT of -- ex India PBT around INR 17 crores, the taxes are similar. So how does that work?

Your question is ex India has gone up. If that is the question, then yes, because of Zimbabwe has come in the tax bracket. Earlier, we were availing the tax break.

Right. So your ex India PBT is around INR 17 crores, if I'm right, in Q4 and similar amount is the taxes. So is this going to be similar trajectory? Or is it going to be a certain percentage of a PBT going forward? I mean simple the consolidated PAT is -- sorry, go ahead, please.

Yes. Here, what happens is there is -- some country may have a lesser this thing -- profit and some may have -- one country to another set of is not available. So slight mismatch is always quite likely, but overall percentage is -- in international is lower than that of India.

Next question is from the line of [ Onkar ] from Shree Investments.

Yes, my question is regarding -- you have added alcoholic beverages as a category. So can you talk a bit more about that? When you want to enter like what products and when we can start?

We have just said that we are starting with Carlsberg in Africa. We are putting our first greenfield plant starting this year, which hopefully will be ready by the end of next year.

Okay. So this is strictly for out of India, right? This is not for India?

For the time being, it's -- specifically, we are starting Carlsberg and we are still looking for other things. But at the moment, it's Carlsberg for Africa.

Okay. What was the capacity utilization this quarter with the added capacity?

You're talking of nonalcholic or...

Yes, yes, nonalcoholic. The normal one.

No, no. The quarter -- last quarter has no capacity issues. Our capacities are based for the second quarter of the year, and we have adequate capacity available. I would say we have 50% more capacity available than what we have done this year.

So from last year Q2 this year Q2, how much capacity you have added?

4 plants, I think 27 -- it's a 20-plus percentage capacity is added in this year, which could not be used. And last year also, we have added the capacity. So we have...

Between the last 2 years, we have added close to 40%, 45% capacity. So that capacity is available for us.

Okay. And that should be hopefully used in the Q2 of current -- next financial year, right?

I hope so. It won't be that much. There is enough capacity available if need be.

With the cash on the books you are sitting at and no major CapEx coming in, as you have said, and you haven't even increased the dividend payout. So like what is the strategy on that? How do you plan to use the cash then?

So partly, we have just acquired a company in Africa, which will be paid for. And there will be some -- we are putting a brewery also in Africa. And balance, we have to see if we want to wait and see the season how it goes in case the volumes become larger, then we have to -- and we have to always keep on looking at expansion in certain territories, even though overall volume doesn't grow to that level, certain territories grow faster, then we have to increase the capacity in those territories. And if everything goes well, maybe we will increase the dividend.

Okay. So you are sticking to the double-digit growth target for the current year as well?

For the time being, that's what we are saying because till the weather opens up until we see what's happening. And that's the second quarter, which really makes the big difference.

Thank you very much. With this, I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.

Thank you. I hope we have been able to answer all your questions satisfactorily. Should you need any further clarifications or would like to know more about the company, please feel free to contact our Investor Relations team. Thank you once again for your interest and support and for taking the time out to join us on this call. Look forward to interacting with you soon. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much. On behalf of Varun Beverages Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect.