Veefin Solutions Limited (543931) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good evening, everyone, and welcome to Veefin Solutions' Investor Conference Call. I am Urja Thakkar, Compliance Officer at Veefin Solutions Limited, and I thank you all for joining us today as we discuss Veefin's growth journey and provide key business updates. [Operator Instructions] This conference call is being recorded. The recording and the transcript will be available on the stock exchange and company websites within 1 business day. I'm pleased to introduce our senior management team who are present on the call today: Mr. Raja Debnath, Managing Director and Chairperson; Mr. Gautam Udani, COO and Whole-time Director; and Ms. Payal Maisheri, Chief Financial Officer. Without further ado, I now invite Mr. Gautam Udani to begin the proceedings. Gautam?

Thanks, Urja. Thanks for the introduction. Pranav, can you share the slides? Perfect. Thank you. So good evening, everyone. Thank you for joining us today. At Veefin we really value the relationships we have built with our investors, and we take great pride in it. We believe in transparency and keeping all of you informed about everything important that's happening around us. That's why we have called this meeting to give you visibility into what's going on at Veefin. Recently, you might have heard some rumors about inquiries regarding us, but we want to make it clear that we have officially and categorically denied these rumors. Just to update everyone, the company has taken all necessary actions that we need to address this situation. Next slide, Pranav. As most of you know, our journey began informally back in 2017. And over the next 5 years, we have built a product that's now widely recognized in the supply chain finance and working capital sectors across many countries. Since our listing in Bombay Stock Exchange in 2023, our growth has been great. We have signed incredible clients and reached an annual run rate of $25 billion in disbursement across all clients. We have -- we are really proud of what we have built, and we plan to continue innovating for many more years and make sure that we provide world-class technology and digital products to our customers. Let me give you some updates about our products. Next slide, Pranav. This shows an annual calendar that we are trying to follow for new product launches. Our API gateway, which offers a fraud and risk detection API suite to lenders during the underwriting process, went live last quarter. We already have 5 clients using this solution, and we have a strong pipeline for this product. Another key milestone is our PSB Exchange platform, which is now live. Several banks are either in integration or testing phase, and we expect transactions to flowing over it very [ soon ]. This is a huge milestone for us, and it takes Veefin to the next level in the working capital ecosystem. We will also be rolling out trade finance and cash management solutions in the next quarter, and this would make us the first single window product for supply chain trade and cash globally. Additionally, in the supply chain finance space, we will be adding Islamic Finance co-lending by July 25. Islamic Finance opens up new markets for us, and we are also excited for that. So these are the product updates. Now, let's move to next slide, Pranav. So -- some -- now let's talk about some of our key wins and go lives. We have successfully gone live for major clients like HSBC, Jio Finance, Central Bank of India, GSW, OneBank and Riyadh Bank, to name a few. We have also migrated the entire supply chain finance portfolio of Yes Bank onto our platform. On the new deal front, we have signed the Select group in Africa, where we will be rolling out our solution across 5 countries in Africa. We have also signed deals with Invest Bank in UAE and Bank of Kigali, based out of Rwanda. Additionally, UCO Bank, which is a part of our PSB exchange platform, has signed up the entire Veefin product stack as the back-end technology for supply chain finance. There have been many other go-lives over the last 2 quarters as well. Next slide, Pranav. As we all know, SaaS business typically have trailing revenues, meaning that revenues come in over a period of time. However, we are already seeing the results of our efforts. Over the past 3 half years, our revenues have been growing at around 47%, which shows that we are on the right path. Next slide, Pranav. Skip this one. Many of you are also aware that people and culture are a huge priority for us. At Veefin, we consider every employee an asset. We have worked hard to create a culture where everyone feels like an owner of the business. For the third year in a row, we have been awarded as a Great Place to Work certification. Our employee satisfaction index has risen from 80% to 84%, while the industry standard in India is close to 30%. Next slide, Pranav. We have also hired a few key senior people to help us run Veefin more efficiently. Some senior people have been promoted to larger roles, and these industry veterans will help us take Veefin to the next level. Along with the new hires, we have also made several acquisitions within Veefin subsidiaries, which further strengthens our position as a holistic solution provider in the working capital ecosystem. Now I would like to explain you our corporate structure. One more slide, Pranav. Veefin Solutions is the parent company and it oversees 4 subsidiaries founded in 2024. Each subsidiary focuses on a specific product or service that complements in our core business. The reason we created subsidiaries instead of keeping everything under Veefin Solutions is twofold. First, it allows us to raise funds for new products or acquisitions by issuing shares or swapping shares from the subsidiaries of Veefin, as we are limited to INR 25 crores of [ accretive ] capital in Veefin Solutions, as it is listed as an SME in the BSE. Second, we needed industry leaders to come in and lead these businesses. Just like Raja and I were complementary skills, the leaders who are now running these subsidiaries are top industry talent. These leaders are not just our employees, they are our partners in this journey. So far, we have acquired 6 companies within the 4 subsidiaries. The money we have raised for these acquisitions have been in the subsidiaries, and there have been no changes in the cap table structure of Veefin Solutions since our last [ preferred ] round in March 2024, except for ESOPs that might have vested. Veefin Solution will get consolidation of revenue of all the subsidiaries and all the required -- and all the acquired companies and [indiscernible] to the extent of the shareholding in each of the companies. To make things more clearer, this slide that you are seeing right now shows that we have divided our business -- or structured our business into 2 parts. The Products division, which essentially comes under Veefin Solutions and Estorifi, which is one of our subsidiaries, and InfiniSystems, which will be the services and solutions arm. I explain how each of the companies in our entire ecosystem contributes to strengthening our position in the working capital world. And I'll hand it over to Raja to explain the details.

Next slide, please, Pranav. Let's take a moment. There's a busy slide. We spent some time here. Let's understand this. If you look at this slide, it's broken up into 2 parts. There's a top part which is green and bottom part in orange. But the top part has all the participants in a trade or supply chain in the working capital space. So you look at the corporates, their suppliers, their distributors, and each of these in turn have their own bank. So there's a supplier bank, there's a corporate bank, there's a distributors bank. Alongside, you also have a confirming bank. Confirming bank is a bank which is of relevance in a trade scenario where you require a bank to confirm the LCs or the BGs, okay? If you look at the transaction flows, you also have between the suppliers, the corporates and the distributors a PO, that is a purchase order, an invoice. LC, BGs are flowing. That's what's happening, okay? Then you also see flows of bank guarantees, LCs, invoice discount. And I'm taking some time out; this is a complicated matter. I'm trying to make it as simple as possible, because as our investor, I think you deserve a chance to understand what we are actually building, why what we are building is so complex and why is it that people like Veefin. Now that at the top is what the transaction flows are. In the bottom half, as you see in orange, these are all tech platforms. So there's a cash management platform, and whatever is the cash transaction happening between these corporates, their view of that is on the cash management platform and this cash management platform connects to the core banking, okay? Then, whether it's a corporate or a supplier or a distributor, when the bank gives them a credit limit, a working capital credit limit, that is done in the underwriting platform. This is called the loan origination platform. This is the underwriting platform on which the corporates get their credit limits assigned. Now to do these credit limit assignments, banks rely on bringing in APIs or data through API, whether it's know your customer, know your business. We all know of the aadhaar [indiscernible], then you think of the GST, you think of MCA portal, you think of credit bureaus. These are all those APIs with the underwriting platform request. You then have some GenAI. So we have all -- keep hearing about GenAI. There are GenAI use cases, products which are there, which come into the underwriting portal. Using all of this information, the underwriting happens. Once underwriting happens, there are 3 kinds of systems which that case will flow through. It will either move into a loan management system for supply chain financing, it will move to a trade finance system, or it can move to a loan bank system for all other products other than trade finance and loan -- other than trade finance and supply chain financing, okay? From underwriting, it moves into loan management for supply chain, loan management for trade finance and loan management for others, that's the scenario. Post that, all of these 3 systems get connected to the core bank. And once a loan is booked in the core bank, then there are 3 things which can happen. A co-lending decision can happen, a sell-down of that portfolio can happen, a securitization of the deal can happen, okay? One last piece here which you see on the slide is, in your underwriting platform, you are getting cases directly from the outside, which is your suppliers, corporates and distributors which the bank is sourcing, but you're also getting business from the various marketplaces and fintechs, okay? This is the ecosystem that we operate in. Pranav, go to the next slide. What you will see here is now an overlay of all the Veefin products and the Veefin companies and the acquisitions that we have done. All of these, where they sit in the ecosystem, is shown clearly here. To go back now, which is our flagship Veefin. So your loan management system for supply chain financing is operated by Veefin. Your loan management system for all other products, okay, other than trade finance is operated by Veefin. Similarly, the transactions which are happening between the supplier, the corporate and the distributors, the interaction, the raising of invoice sales, requesting the financing, looking at the statement of accounts, all of that happens on Veefin. So Veefin supply chain, that is the entire journey out there. The corporate connection, the suppliers connection directly coming in the underwriting, happen through Veefin. That's the API integrations. The next in the Veefin family is Infini. Now Infini is the company which has all of the APIs that are required for any underwriting journey. So loan origination system, all the APIs which are required today as a bank, you will have to go to 3, 4 different vendors. Instead of that, now you sign up only with 1 vendor, which is Infini, to provide you with all of those APIs. And that's what Gautam explained, that we have already signed 5 clients for this particular business, and there are many more in the pipeline. That is through Infini. The next one that we see here is Globe TF. Globe TF is our tech company, our subsidiary, which is focused primarily on trade finance and cash management. So what Veefin has done, or Veefin Solutions has done, in supply chain financing on the tech side, we are trying to replicate the same thing for trade finance and cash management through Globe TF, which is, again, a subsidiary of Veefin. The last subsidiary of Veefin is Veefin Capital, which is our NVSCR. This is a factory NVSC, whose job is to take loans which have been booked in core banking and then provide them, through a sell-down mechanism or a securitization mechanism, to the external world. Who buys all these? These are bought by either HNIs, these are bought by banks, these are bought by mutual funds, insurance companies, that -- those are the parties who actually buy assets which will be sold in the market or sold down in the market through Veefin Capital. So Veefin and Veefin's 4 subsidiaries we have covered. If you look at the first acquisition that we have done, which was TaxGenie, what is that doing? TaxGenie is sitting between the supplier and the corporate, sitting between the corporate and the distributor, and digitizing this entire interaction, the accounts payable process which is there. Imagine a corporate. Corporates have an accounts payable team, where invoices come in. That account payable team is responsible then for taking that invoice, doing the 3-way match with the purchase order, with the E-WayBill, and then deciding whether this has to be paid or not, and that's the major job. Then this will flow into the ERP. This entire process that I explained to you is digitized by TaxGenie. So as we have mentioned earlier, they have close to 300 clients, large companies like Tata Motors, Ashok Leyland, [indiscernible], they use this product. Last year, 67,000 crores of invoices were processed by this platform. So that -- when you have so many corporates and their supplier and distributor on the platform, that becomes an opportunity for the various banks to then do financing on the TaxGenie platform itself. That is called the embedded finance journey. So that's where TaxGenie comes in. Post that, the second acquisition which we did was Ez. Ez has a brilliant no-code platform. No code, as in not a single line of code can be written on the platform, because that's what the product is. You drag and drop and create an underwriting journey on it. So this is where easy.ai comes and sits, all underwriting, whether it's SME underwriting, corporate underwriting, retail underwriting, can happen on the Ez.ai platform. Post this is the fintechs and the marketplaces, which they are coming in, they are coming in either through the PSB exchange platform -- I missed this, this is again a subsidiary of Veefin. This subsidiary is the biggest subsidiary where -- in terms of potential, because this is basically sitting at the center of the Indian supply chain trade finance, working capital ecosystem. That's what we spoke about, that the tech for this is completely ready. Right now, we are in the process of integrating with a few public sector banks and the fintechs. We should be expecting to see live transaction on this extremely soon. They've got PSB exchanges. So instead of each fintech and marketplace doing an integration with the bank underwriting system, they do it only once to PSB exchange, which then does the integration with the bank's underwriting platform. Okay. The next acquisition which we have is your TradeAssets. TradeAssets is a UAE-based marketplace, which has 125 banks globally on this marketplace, where you can buy and sell trade assets, which in the real sense, meaning you can buy and sell LCs, bank guarantees, you can -- a bank in India wants an LC to be confirmed by a better-rated bank from some other market. They can go and put the LC on this marketplace, and some bank with a better credit rating can come and bid for confirming the LC or for confirming the bank guarantee. That's what the TradeAssets business does. Walnut, a Singapore-based GenAI company that we acquired that produces the GenAI products, which are again consumed by the underwriting division. What kind of products? There are products which can be -- they read annual reports, they read the notes to account. They -- you can give the business rules. It will read all the documents that you give them. And instead of manually having to read the document to see whether the clauses are there in it, the GenAI product that Walnut has built does the entire hard work. The last one is White Rivers Media. The White Rivers Media is the services arm which Gautam spoke about. So in that space, we have Infini, we have White Rivers Media, and the next one I'll come to, which is Nityo Infotech. White Rivers Media does the job of providing strategy for digital content creation, actual digital content creation, not with the strategy but the content creation, and finally, distribution of the content which has been created. So 3 things. They do the strategy. They do the content creation and the distribution, okay? And 20% of the digital content spends in India are done by the BFSI sector. And White Rivers Media makes a good fit into the Veefin family because White Rivers does not have a great client base in the BFSI segment, and the Veefin group has a very large client base in the BFSI segment. So that's where the marriage comes in. Nityo Infotech, the last company on the acquisition that we acquired it's a 100% subsidiary of Infini. That's a company in which whenever our clients require any custom projects, which we don't do because we are a product company, whenever they require custom projects, whenever they require digital resources for augmenting of their resource pool, they come to us, and that's what we can provide. And this is not just in the BFSI segment, this is across all sectors. So that is the way the entire ecosystem has been envisaged. So the only thing that we do not have in this entire ecosystem currently is a core bank. And that is also something that we are in talks with different companies, and we will get a core banking company into our domain very soon. So by doing that, we then have our tech assets across this entire working CapEx ecosystem. So any client that we work with, then we do not work with that client only across 1 product, if we have sold the 1 product, we have an opportunity of then doing a cross-sell and an upsell for various other products that we have in the Veefin ecosystem. So that's where I will end. And I think we can now take questions, because I'm sure there will be a lot of questions with this very, very heavy diagram that you have just seen depicting our group structure.

So let's move toward the question-and-answer session.

[Operator Instructions] So first question we're taking from Mr. [ Uday Chanda ]. The question is, as per our mission, we aspire to be world #1 SCF platform. What unique value proposition will set our product apart from our global competition like Taulia, C2FO, PrimeRevenue and Demica, et cetera. How are we also working on human capital required to match the vision and mission?

Two things. The names that you have spoken about in terms of competition, they do not -- they are not a direct competition, first. All of -- most of these names that you have taken, they are basically fintech players who go out in the market, acquire corporates and then take those corporates and their supply-chain finance business to the banks. So with the core product, the core thing that differentiates Veefin from most of the other players in the market is that we are the heart of supply chain, which is the LMS. The loan management system which is used is the most complex piece, because in all other products for which you have a loan management system, there you have only 1 corporate or 1 obligor, so to speak, from a bank point of view. Once the bank gives a limit to them, the bank don't have to do any checks on them further. But in supply chain financing, even after you've given a limit to the corporate, every time the corporate comes and does a drawdown, you not only have to look at the corporates limits and the payment behavior, you also have to look at the corporate's buyers payment behavior [ allowed ] for the other suppliers. If you are doing for the seller, then you have to -- you're doing financing for the buyer, then you have to look at the sellers and their behavior. Normal systems do not do this. We do this. The difference in terms of why we have been successful and why others have been trying and they have not been able to succeed in this as well as we have been is because of the time that we have spent. For us to actually have built this product, the first 3 years it took for us to just build a beta product. So this takes the moat is one way to think of it. What is the moat of the supply chain business that Veefin has built? It is at the time anyone who follows us will have to go through the same process that we have gone through. They'll have to go through the same pains. They'll have to go through the same challenges of the build-out that we have gone through. We were lucky -- and I keep saying this -- we were lucky when we started because there were not that many players. So we had the leeway, because we made mistakes also in the past. So the mistakes that we made in the past, that time, we were not easily replaceable. But today, the banks have enough opportunities and options so they do not want to allow anybody to make any mistakes. And that is the reason why a platform like Veefin was tried and tested on the billions of dollars of transaction becomes that much more, how do I say, essential for banks to work with. The large banks will not work with small players any longer.

Second question is from [ Ashu Raj ]. There are two questions. Question number one, revenue growth in the investors' presentation has been mentioned as 47.91% for 6 months, but the revenue guidance at the end of FY '25 was for INR 110 crores. So I would like to understand if we are on the track for that. And if yes, why we mentioned 47.91%, which is less if we are reaching INR 110 crores.

Gautam?

Payal, numbers questions we cannot address right now, right?

Payal, you are on mute.

Yes, so since we are close to our March results, as of now, let's keep it discreet with respect to the numbers. When we come out with the number and the calculations, it will [ automatically display ].

Going on to question #2 from Mr. [ Ashu Raj ]. We recently acquired WRM, White Rivers Media. I would like to understand how WRM fits into Veefin, as WRM looks to be a different kind of company.

So two parts -- two answers to this question. One, which Raja has already explained, that it's a very easy cross-sell for us. The second reason being we are a SaaS company, wherein we provide the back-end technology to banks to service the business that their sales team will generate. So the more business that the banks will do, we earn a percentage out of it. So we want to own the origination piece as well, where more and more business is generated by one of our own companies.

Next question is from Mr. [ Sorab Salvani ]. Can you please talk about the profitability of the acquisitions?

Payal, again numbers, right? So at this month, we are not supposed to be taking those questions.

Yes. So what we can -- we want to just explain is that the acquisitions that have been done are pretty much strategic acquisitions, okay, and wherein the acquisition is [indiscernible], it's done by a share swap and a [indiscernible] cash consideration, with the commitment from the promoters and the investors to meet a certain kind of target for revenues. And it's not 100% cash consideration, but yes, on the profitability side, it will show in the consol [ effect ].

Next question from Mr. [ Dev Parikh ], do we check the quality or genuinely of invoice discounted? The backdrop is what happened with Greensill Capital entangled in processing fake invoices and selling to insurance company [ and HLM ].

We don't do that, because we are a tech company. We sell our products. So Greensill could have used our platform, let us put this way, okay? We will give our platforms to any lender or any fintech. What the fintech does with the platform in terms of what checks they keep or what checks they have to do, that is always up to the risk appetite of that particular lender. So we have zero risk -- we have zero involvement in the risk of the platform or risk of the business which our lenders run. Next question?

Next question is from Mishra [indiscernible]. Could you please explain which subsidiaries are we planning for IPO listing? Would all the subsidiaries remain under Veefin group, or are we expecting any de-mergers in the future? How would you ensure that Veefin shareholders get benefited from listing of subsidiaries?

At this point of time, we cannot speak about de-mergers, IPO and listing. However, the benefits that Veefin will get out of its subsidiaries, Payal can speak about that.

So Veefin is always going to be the holdco, and all the subsidiaries and acquisitions that are done, wherein Veefin holds the percentage of shareholding in each of the subsidy which is mentioned in [ our BFC ] issues now, apart from that, we hold the management control also of all the subsidiaries. All the strategic and the management decisions remain at recent level. So at a recent level and at the investors level, we get the entire consolidation effect on the revenue as well as the PAT.

And the key point to note here is that all of these acquisitions, and at the cost of repetition, we'll explain again: all of these acquisitions have not happened in Veefin. The acquisition will happen in the subsidiaries of Veefin. So what this means is that any outflow which has happened here, the share swaps which have happened, they have been share swaps with Veefin subsidiaries, not Veefin. If there's any cash outflow, it has happened from the Veefin subsidiaries, not from Veefin. So Veefin -- as the investors of Veefin, they are getting benefited not just from the Veefin business, which Veefin anyway will continue, but they're also getting benefited with the subsidiaries which Veefin continues to keep creating and either funding themselves or through the share swaps with the subsidiaries.

Next question from Mr. [ Nalini ]. In the last con call, you had discussed about developing trade securitization market in India. What kind of progress we have made since then? What is the opportunity size of this?

So on trade securitization, there are some deals which are already in the pipeline. There are some deals which the other players in the market have also done. We have seen those in the recent past. So that's a good thing because we want more players in the market to start doing this. As the size of the market, let me put it this way, that whatever is the current business that we are seeing across all banks in the supply chain and trade finance space, the securitization side will be at least 5x that number, but that is a potential in the market. We just need the right structuring and the right risk appetite amongst bankers to come in and play and do those investments. That's where players like us have a role in expanding the trade securitization market.

Next question from Mr. Arnab [indiscernible]. It is becoming increasingly challenging to understand the dilution happening at our subsidiaries. If the dilution as above 50%, how do we even consolidate our subsidiary revenue?

So -- yes, Yes, so like I just earlier mentioned, even though the holding might get diluted with the acquisitions and the funding that we do, but we hold majority board control and management control in all our subsidiaries, which helps us consolidate the revenues at 100%. And also the pack depending on the percentage of holding we have in each of the companies and like Raja also mentioned, that the -- like on Veefin standalone, of course, we are on track and as for our commitments. But on a -- at the more we grew at a Veefin group level with the subsidiaries and acquisitions that we do, the more the growth, the more it [ will ] contribute to Veefin as a holding company.

Next question from Mr. [ Pradeep ]. What of these 3 verticals mentioned in the presentation will all come under Veefin Solutions, how it works?

The 3 verticals which are there is, think of Veefin group as 3 verticals. One is the product vertical, one is the services vertical, and one is the regulated entity vertical. Regulated entity is Veefin Capital. That's the NBFC. The services vertical includes the 3 companies of Infini, which is the API gateway company; Nityo, which is a services company of custom software solutions; and White Rivers Media, which is a digital marketing and content creation arm. That's the second vertical, which is Infini. The third one, which is the original, is Veefin Solutions, where everything else comes in. So that is the group structure.

We are done with all the questions. Does anyone have any other questions?

No. I think there was a question on the PSB exchange update. So let me give the update once more because I think that's a very important topic. So on PSB Exchange, our tech is completely ready right now. Our tech, which is first of its kind in India, which will allow hundreds of fintechs to then connect with using the same API, that's the key thing. Using the same API specs, they can now connect to hundreds of banks on the other side. So none of the parties, either on the fintech side or on the bank side, need to change their APIs, even when new parties keep getting added onto the platform. So that's the big thing where our tech is now ready. We are right now in the process of integration with a few public sector banks. And as we know, integrations do take time. So that's where we are right now. Simultaneously, for the POC phase, we also have 5 large fintechs with whom we are doing the integration right now. So as we speak, integration across both of these platforms are happening.

Next question from Mr. [ Giriraj Vohra ]. He has 2 questions. Number one, what stops other fintechs to get into loan management system? And number two, what would you say your competitive edge is versus other loan management system providers?

I think there's a wonderful question, and I love answering this question. To get into -- like I keep saying this, if Gautam and I would have known what we were getting into when we started building the loan management system, we would not have started this company at all. But it is far, far, far more complex than what we had assumed it will be. So we remember the first 3 years were like blood on the floor. For the first 4 years, we were working straight day in, day out, no weekends, because the entire team was doing that. And there were multiple times during that journey where we started questioning ourselves that did we do the right thing by trying to build a supply chain finance loan management system, because it is very complex and mistakes keep happening. And in this business, the mistakes are very costly because, from the bank's point of view, banks are not selling just supply chain finance to their corporates. They are selling them multiple products. Supply chain finance happens to be one product. And even there, the margins which the banks make is not the highest, but it's a very essential product for the corporate. So if anything wrong happens on that business, the bank is liable to lose all its money-making business with the corporate across the various product lines. So the banks cannot afford to take a product which is very difficult. What are the kind of issues which happen? Let me give you some examples, because you come -- be easier. Imagine you -- a corporate requests for financing on the last day of the month because, once they receive the financing, their supplier is going to sell them the goods. It failed at the last moment because hundreds of distributors have requested for something on the platform at that point in time. There's a -- there's a monetary loss to the corporate because, March ending, they are not able to do the billing. Imagine the scenario where the distributor requests for financing and instead of it getting debited from the account once, it gets debited 5x. Imagine a scenario where the corporate makes a payment. Instead of the payment going to x account, it goes 5x to some other account. And these are all real life cases which I'm telling you, of which our clients face. That is the reason when the bank is now not doing its business, they're running up to the corporates and trying to recover money, more often than not from customers who are not even the bank customers. So bankers don't want to do that. That is the reason Veefin now is in a position to replace supply chain finance, loan management systems of others. And it has taken us a very long time to understand that. For the first 3, 4, 5 years, we were not in that position, but we are in a position now. So anybody else, I will keep repeating, anybody else who wants to get into this business is extremely welcome. They will have to go through the same process of learning to understand what works, what doesn't work, because this is a complex system. Plus, being able to hold on to the same people who have written the first line of code of the product to then be able to make changes is something which corporates are not able to manage. I think Veefin's -- one of the core strengths of Veefin is not just its product-level thinking ability, but its human capital. The way we have been able to manage our entire team and see that our attrition levels remain next to nil for the last 3 years. But those are the skills and strengths that we have which differentiate us from others in the market. Therefore, large players, large but I will not take the name, large players who are in core banking who are the largest globally, they have all the resources, they have people, but they still have not been able to create supply chain finance systems, and neither do they have customers globally. Though they have hundreds of core banking customers, they cannot even go to their own core banking customers and sell them supply chain financing. There, you request specialized players like us.

Next question from anonymous attendee. So WRM and Nityo Infotech won't come under Veefin Solutions listed VSC SME?

Correct. I think there is another question which Mr. Pradeep had asked is, which means that only Veefin Group, no other new listings from Veefin Group, if my understanding is correct? The Veefin Group has one. So Payal, are we allowed to talk about...?

[indiscernible] Payal answer.

Payal, please answer that.

For the question about WRM and Niyou, yes, we are -- so WRM and Nityo are acquired under Infini system, which is a subsidiary of Veefin Solutions. So WRM and Nityo are very much a part of the Veefin Group. And about the question from Mr. Pradeep about IPOs and listing of that are management call and whenever the Board will decide, we will always inform our investors as soon as we come up with a decision.

The next question from Manahu [indiscernible]. Can you share the business metrics of PSB exchange?

The business metrics that one would look at in PSB exchange would look at -- would we -- what is the throughput? What is the transactions which are happening on the platform? Because our fees are linked only to that, nothing else. It doesn't matter how many fintechs are there, how many banks are there, who is using it. At the end of the day, how many transactions will happen, that's the number, once we start going live, that's what we will start sharing in our investor call, so people will know where we are.

Next question is...

There's one question from [indiscernible]. Can we start publishing Tier 1 corporate onboarded for supply chain or dealer finance? We can't, because we don't do this business ourselves. Our platforms are used by the top corporates in the country, but we white-label our platform to sell to the banks and the NBFCs. So their -- technically their clients are not our clients. Our clients are the banks and lenders. It's only in case of PSB Exchange, where if corporates coming directly on the platform, that's the time we'll be able to say who are the corporate clients on the platform, not till then.

Next question from Saurav Sardhwani. What other acquisitions are in the pipeline? Also, what are the plans for Veefin Capital? What segment industry will it operate in? To answer the first question...

[indiscernible]

Yes.

Regarding the first one, I would love to answer that question, okay? But I can't answer that question because my company secretary is standing there. The second one is what is the plans for Veefin Capital. Veefin Capital, as I -- we've done this in the past also. Veefin Capital's job is to take pools of receivables or pools of payables, which would be either partly rated, partly well rated, unrated, take that pool, put them into a trust, then do create enhancement on it, get it rated by the rating agencies and then sell those to other institutions, financial institutions, HNIs, mutual funds, regulated companies, all that kind. That's what the job of Veefin Capital is, to be able to structure these transactions -- that's the key word -- structure these kind of transactions and then find buyers for it in the market and sell it off. But that's a big challenge which the Indian country -- India is facing.

Next question from anonymous attendee. Can you send demo videos of your products on our YouTube channel so that investors can relate with the workflow diagram better? This is from Mr. [ Sameer ].

We are -- we can't do demo video, but it's a good suggestion. What we will do is there are some snippets and Reels, because nowadays, it's all the era of the Reels. So we will share short Reels. But we'll also have -- going forward, we plan to do -- run some Investor Days. Investor Days where we will be able to open our offices down to our top investors who can then come and spend the day with us. And that's where we can then share with them not just what we are doing, but what our new products are coming up. We'll share those demos with them at that point in time.

We are done with all the questions. Does anyone have any more questions?

1 second. There is some -- there's a question on -- just coming on some ESOP shares. Payal, can you just see that? The reason for allotted 3x ESOP shares around 1,400,000, any reason for that?

So basically, the ESOP allotment is done to a trust and allotment is done based on the vesting schedules that we've given to our employees. So as and when the ESOPs are getting vested, and we get the exercise request, based on the exercise request that we are getting, we are doing that [indiscernible]. So that's the only reason, no other reason.

Any other questions that we have missed? Any lock-in period or whatever for that? Is employee of new acquisition company [ are ] holding? These are only employees of Veefin that the ESOPs have been given out to or have been given out to. And all our ESOPs are usually with heavy lock-in periods of close to 4 years.

We have a bullet vesting period of 4 years.

Yes, we'll start doing this quarterly so that -- we'll start doing the investor calls quarterly so that you do not have a long break between 2 investor calls. So that's something which we are actively working towards. Just to end this, all the acquisitions that we have done, we are still in the phase of consolidation of all of these. So therefore, our numbers that will be coming out, we'll not be able to ask Payal explain, just reiterating that again. All of those consolidations will not be seen in the current numbers because we are still doing those acquisitions. All the paper work...

The paper work and essential signing is happening.

Essential signing, yes.

Also, we are more than happy to arrange for any one-on-one meetings with any investor or a group of investors, and happy to host them at our office if they wish to visit.

Perfect. I think we have answered and taken all the questions that we could take here. And thanks, everyone. Thanks, everyone, for joining and being patient and hearing us out. Thank you.

Thank you, everyone.

And thank you, everyone.