Ventripoint Diagnostics Ltd. (VPTDF) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, and thank you for joining today's shareholder update call. My name is Hugh MacNaught, and I'm the President and CEO of the company. Before we begin, I'd like to remind our listeners to today's call may include forward-looking statements. looking statements are based on current expectations, estimates and projections that are subject to risks, uncertainties and assumptions. Actual results may differ materially from those expressed or implied. For those just joining the call, I would request that you -- [indiscernible] tablets on mute. So I'd like to begin by framing the year and describing where we've come from. Throughout the year, we've been navigating a very challenging environment for capital markets while completing a significant phase of work related to development and regulatory affairs. We're exiting that phase with VMS version 4 approved, a stronger foundation for commercialization, a clear path to scale commercial adoption and early evidence in upgrades and go-to market changes are working. The team has reviewed and updated the business plan. We've optimized the marketing processes, and we've begun to expand our commercial footprint. We're making tangible progress -- [indiscernible] put your computers on mute, please? We're making tangible progress on structuring the sales process, strengthening our partnerships and preparing for growth once the necessary capital to enable that is secured. We're now shifting our strategic focus from building the company to actually scaling. And as we look forward, our strategic focus is really shifting clearly from product development to commercial adoption and market expansion. The core of the strategy is to move VMS from research settings into routine clinical use. We're beginning with congenital heart defect centers and expanding into additional cardiac indications where accurate right ventricular volumes and measurements and comprehensive chamber assessment are critical. The shift is going to be expressed or manifested in five ways. First of all, we've been working at upgrading the existing sites. So we've been upgrading current installations to VMS version 4, this is intended to ensure consistent enter experience, integrate software province and establishing a foundation for longitudinal patient monitoring -- [indiscernible] could you please mute your phones or computers? Certain of our research, more research-focused sites have delayed the upgrades because of the need to conduct ongoing studies. But the majority have been moving forward with the version 4 deployment and they're reporting very favorable results. Second factor here is we're moving from these early adopters and research use to routine clinical use. So beyond congenital heart defects, we're emphasizing indications where accurate RV measurement is clinically meaningful. This will include valve assessment and broader heart failure monitoring. Our goal here is to demonstrate that VMS is not only innovative but to grow in patient care with faster and more accurate results than traditional imaging methods -- [indiscernible] again, please mute your phones or computers. We're working on generating a greater body of evidence so there's been 60 studies published to date. While these prior studies have established credibility, we're now looking at establishing more current validation and also being able to demonstrate real-world outcomes. This evidence is new evidence will reinforce both the clinical and economic benefits of VMS and it will help their hospitals and prospective customers to justify adoption and integration into care pathways. The business and revenue model is being evolved. So we've refined our sales approach. The design here is intended to reduce the friction to shorten the sales cycle and create a more predictable stream of recurring revenue. We have introduced a Device as a Service subscription model or DaaS as we're calling it. We view this as a key step in this direction. By offering a subscription-based access, we make adoption easier for health care providers, while this is also establishing a stronger base sustainable revenue for the company. We've also been engaged in modernizing the sales process. So previously, the sales approach relied heavily on in-person demonstrations. These are very costly and complex to schedule. Moving forward, we're implementing a virtual presale demonstration. We're reserving on-site visits for installation, training and validation. We believe that this approach will reduce costs, accelerate decision-making and allow our sales team to reach more potential customers efficiently. Commercial execution is also something we're very focused on, of course, we are building an expanded commercial team. We've engaged several very seasoned candidates who are working on a contract and part-time basis, and they will convert to full-time status post financing. There's sites that have already upgraded to version 4, report higher satisfaction, improved workflow and enhance diagnostic confidence. These users are highlighting opportunities for workflow efficiencies and reductions in secondary imaging, particularly for cardiac MRI, which is costly, time-consuming and often difficult to schedule. The feedback confirms that VMS can be integrated effectively into certain care pathways for longitudinal monitoring and contributes to improving patient experience and outcomes. We've been engaging with industry advisers and key opinion leaders to identify how VMS+ can support early diagnosis treatment and intervention, particularly in the rapidly growing heart valve repair and replacement market, this is currently estimated at a $9 billion market in 2024 with growth of 10% through the next decade. This is helping us to define the marketing positioning our messaging and product use cases that we hope will resonate with clinicians and administrators. The Congenital Heart Defect Program has now led by Joe Hostetter. Joe is an industry veteran coming from companies more history includes companies such as GE, Canon and Siemens. He's working with us to actively develop proposals for both U.S. and international sites. I'd like to share that at the very recent British Society of Echocardiography Conference in the U.K., our lead for Adult Congenital Heart Defect Echo in London, Dario Freitas presented a poster summarizing a multiyear study on adult congenital heart defect patients. The study demonstrated accuracy comparable to cardiac MRI. And it was very much of interest to us that the results were superior to native 3D echo. This reinforces the clinical credibility of VMS and supports adoption into adult centers as well as the pediatric congenital heart defect clinics. In terms of demand indicators, we have a growing list of qualified leads, both in North America and Europe. And our partners like Angiopro have indicated similar dynamics. With regards to partnerships and our international expansion, I'm very pleased to share that our German partner, Angiopro participated in the recent placement and has committed to increasing their focus and support of VMS. Our work with the [indiscernible] Vascular is ongoing and the integration is nearly complete. We have begun a joint commercial outreach to pediatric centers. They're about we're about to launch a social media push, and I believe that will be going out as early as next week. We continue to collaborate with the Ollie Hinkle Heart Foundation, they're continuing to open doors and to raise awareness of MS. Our licensee in China, Lishman Global, we're advancing on that license. They have purchased components for 10 systems. We have sent a an application specialist to China. He's been there for 2 weeks and is actually just returning. Initial results seem to be very positive. They've installed a number of systems in the most prestigious center in Beijing. And we hope that, that will leverage into significant sales in 2026. We're also very interested in India and South Asia. We've got ongoing engagement with prospective partners. We've engaged to fellow Dr. Singaram to assist us with pursuing distribution joint ventures and capital for the company. In the next couple of weeks, we'll be announcing a new partner coming on board, who is working with us to build a more structured and much more sophisticated return on investment analysis program that will model economic and clinical outcome benefits related to VMS adoption. I feel that this will be a very powerful tool in terms of placing product. With regards to the product manufacturing and life cycle, the magnet free sensors, of course, have now been manufactured. They've been successfully validated. We've updated the manufacturing process. In terms of the components for the system, we helped in a life cycle review. We have for a manufacturer of 25 systems. So this should give a sense of our outlook for the coming months. Very happy to report that we passed our quality audits in September. So this requires a significant investment of time and effort and really is a testimony to the efforts and professionalism of our team. In terms of future development work, this is very targeted and driven by market insights. So we're looking right now sort of on an ongoing basis in terms of improving workflow integration, creating better automation and any new features will definitely be tied to market insights rather than R&D-led speculation. In terms of the finance and capital plan, I'd like to take a moment to thank each of you, our shareholders, for your patients, your confidence and your ongoing support during what's been a very complex period. We're very aware of the financing activities and product development cycles can be challenging from an investor perspective. We'd like you to be reassured that our team is committed to minimizing delays and execute as best we can on our strategic objectives. So your trust and your support are critical to realizing the value of VMS and for us to realize our broader vision. We've had a -- [indiscernible] could you please mute your computers or phones? We've engaged in a number of private placements this year. This restructured to minimize dilution, while enabling us to maintain progress on development in core operations. We continue to actively work with several investment banks and marketing groups to secure capital as conditions improve. And again, capital is really the gating factor for the speed of execution. We have a good plan. We're ready to execute. The milestones are very apparent. And really, the capital is what unlocks the velocity on this. Looking ahead, looking at our value drivers over the next 12 months, we've really identified five areas that are key to us. So the first is establishing commercial traction and high-volume -- [indiscernible] could you please mute your phone or your computer. The second one is clinical innovation. So yesterday, we announced entering a collaboration with [ Providence Health ] in British Columbia. This is an example of that. So we're looking to actually actively engage in clinical innovation initiatives with selected partners to really prove or demonstrate the value in congenital heart defects, cardiotoxicity, pulmonary hypertension without dysfunction and other use cases. The third factor -- third driver that we're looking at is more sophisticated ROI models. So these ideally will reflect a reduced need for MRI and better economics from pursuing a pathway that involves VMS. We're looking at how best to enhance our VMS platform, whether this is sort of additional AI, whether it's automation of certain features or addition of novel analytics. And then the final component here is really one of entering into additional strategic collaborations. We've been in recent discussions with a couple of valve companies. And we will be looking to find other companies and technologies that are synergistic with both Ventripoint and VMS. So in closing, we're ending the year with what we feel is the right product. We've got the right partners in a market that is clearly moving towards wanting to adopt reproducible, scalable and accurate cardiac imaging. VMS 4 now represents a substantially improved product. The product user fit is much better than it was even 12 months ago. We have a clearly defined commercialization strategy. We're building stronger clinical partnerships and international collaborations, and we're building a road map for measurable clinical and economic impact. So the execution now really depends on the sequencing of this and the capitalization of the company. We're very active on both fronts. We'd like to thank you for your support. And at this point, we'll open the line for questions. I will try to read each question allow before providing the answer. You can ask questions for the chat function on Zoom. And once again, thanks for joining the call, and we look forward to sort of addressing around your questions here.

Okay. So the first question, what are the revenue goals for 2026 in U.S. dollars or Canadian? Good question. So we're just in the process of finalizing that I think what we need to push toward is very strongly is exceeding $1 million in revenue. So that really is the first threshold. And from there, the intention is to get the scaling rapidly, almost geometrically. So the progression should be 1 to 5 to probably 12 to 15. So we will formalize this. But at a high level, that's the direction we're pushing this in. Definitely, I think in terms of the 25 systems that I mentioned, that should give people a better sense of how this shakes out. Question here concerning Mayo Clinic's late 2024 purchase, has the site been upgraded to version 4 and are they running an evaluation much like the new one with Providence? Yes, great question. So first of all, the system was installed early in 2025. A number of users have been trained on the system on a recent slight visit. We learned that their volumes on the system are actually increasing. So that's very encouraging. I think they're very comfortable with the results and looking to expand the scope of use. We have a very interesting challenge there in terms of the size of their operation. They have 40 echo rooms in their cardiology department. And right now, it's sort of a question of how do they expand from using this for specialized and research purposes to more of a broad scope recognizing that they don't have complete predictability on how patients are presenting and which we want to steer them to. We're going to get back to them with a new proposal looking at how to install multiple units. And see what we can do to assist them with shifting this into routine use. A question here from [ Sean Reesing ] reviewing the GE status and other OEMs. So in terms of GE, a couple of years -- several years ago, we had engaged with them. They had requested that we develop an integration with their products to be placed on an app store or an app garden, I believe that they called it. We were the first and only vendor to qualify under that. However, it turned out that this was really an R&D project and did not have a close linkage to their operating business or commercial business. So it's a little bit in limbo. We are working to reestablish contact with GE. There's a couple of initiatives where I think at a functional level, we'll begin to reengage I would also share that we added an adviser earlier in the year, Stuart Gall. He was the CEO of Intelligent Ultrasound. Some of you may be aware that intelligent ultrasound sold their cardiac AI business to GE. And it's true Mr. Gall. I believe that we will have sort of additional contacts within GE hopefully higher-level contacts where we can establish commercial discussions. From [ Philip ], do you think we will see sales until the end of the year? What about the NHS hospitals in the U.K.? So yes, we're pushing very hard over the next 4 to 6 weeks to brand some sales. So I hope to have some news on that very soon. With regards to the NHS, East Midlands Hospital, although we haven't announced it formally, is a reference center for us. They're actively using the product. So that's going very well. earlier in today's presentation, I mentioned Dario Freitas, who was at Guy's and St Thomas Hospital in London. He's been very happy with the system is looking to acquire it now. And actually, we aspire to place additional units there. We have a little bit of a challenge because the hospital trust or the health care trust that the Guy's and St Thomas is in -- it's now in the process of amalgamating with the Royal Brompton. So this will be an absolutely massive organization. We believe that we're well positioned and we want to work with them very closely on harmonizing four different cardiology sites. As well, we've identified another 8 or 10 possible leads in the U.K., very well-qualified leads. And we expect to have an announcement regarding one of them, hopefully, before end of year. It's just going before their ethics committee at the moment. Another question from [ Philip ]. What is the timeline for potential for sales in China? Interesting question. I think early in the first quarter, we'll begin to see sales. We're pushing for a Chinese FDA approval on the product. We're giving very active support to the licensee. At this point, I can't give an accurate time line on Chinese FDA approval. We're aspiring to get this done within a year. My understanding is that a number of sales will be permissible prior to approval. These would be in tertiary care centers and research centers. And then beyond that, of course, there's very dramatic opportunities for sales and revenue. Mark, Mark is asking at an earlier shareholder meeting this year, we were anticipating a couple of sales two with NHS, two with Ollie Hinkle hopefully by year -- by end of quarter 2 and also meaningful sales early and still forthcoming. We believe they are. It's been frustrating in terms of the pace of this. I've just touched on the unit or units for NHS. We contact them weekly. Ollie Hinkle has referred a site to us a new site, so we're following up with them. And there's a site in the Western U.S., supposedly with the allegedly with financing. We're in frequent contact with them regarding the release of that financing, and that would be for two units. We're also looking to get additional placements of units within the next 4 to 6 weeks. I was on a call early this morning with the site in the Eastern U.S. That's looking very encouraging. We have another one in the Southeastern U.S. that we're hoping to arrange a demo and close a sale for prior to year-end. And my understanding is that they do have funding available for that. Justin is asking was there a charge for existing sites to upgrade? Can we share what they were charged? There's been a spectrum or a range of charges for the upgrades from free to full price. So at this point, we're not really disclosing this externally, that's considered to be confidential. I would say the take-home point here is that we're working very hard to get all of these sites on to some sort of subscription basis. Even sites that were placed where product is placed at no cost and return for research. We're in the process of updating those agreements to have them begin to subscribe to either service or the DaaS model. Question here. India seems promising. Do you believe you'll have a partner by the end of 2026 to run trials, get approval and sales rolling? I believe the answer is yes. I had a discussion last week arranged by Dr. Singaram with the owner of a hospital. He's very willing to have us situate product on site and use them as a demonstration center. We've just got to build a little bit of infrastructure behind him, and I'm getting very positive signals on that front. [ Philip ], what are the plans for greater financing in 2026 to drive sales the sales team, et cetera, forward? In a perfect world, we would do a significant financing at an acceptable valuation and just really focus on steering this company into growth. The reality is, I think we'll have to do a couple of smaller financings sort of on the path to that. I think the goal now is really to build more runway here, get sort of a stronger foundation. So we believe that by the end of Q1, that the company will look substantially different. I think we will have had further traction to our financing partners. And there will be sort of better resourced investment partners at hand. Yes, this question, what is the ideal capitalization requirement to execute the sales plan? Is this expected to be obtained for revenue or through dilution or a mix? So near term, really, this needs to be through investment capital. Once we're beyond Q1, I would hope that this is a mix ideal capitalization, I would say, would be in the range of $1 million to $1.5 million to really get this rolling. Does the Ascend Partnerships business metrics matched with the DaaS for Ascend current clients moving forward? Yes, it will. So we've taken more of an incremental approach with the Ascend. So Matt Dodson, our Marketing Director, has been working very closely with them on product definition and building out the development plan -- [indiscernible] could you mute your phone or computer please? Well, Matt has worked with this team -- [indiscernible] please mute. Yes. We're very close on that. Karl Pringle, our sales leader has been working with their commercial team on for joint presentations. So we've actually been collaborating on presentations to prospective -- existing and prospective customers. On that front, it's actively advancing we we're working somewhat in parallel at the moment rather than integrated. So that being said, I think we actually are perfectly positioned to pursue the DaaS model. Once the technical integration is complete, they are essentially reselling the product, we'll have to sort of update the DaaS model specific to Ascends offering. [ Matt Page ] is asking how many potential investors are in active discussions and what are the stage gates for their decisions in terms of certain sales completed sites, et cetera? What is the time line for the pilot to decision for Providence Health? Well, two questions here. So we have a number of investors. I'm not going to disclose how many. We've actually got one who could put in $2 million to $3 million, I think very easily. However, what they would require as a leading investor to really be before on the due diligence. So we've not yet secured a lead sort of be able to put in that quantum of capital and commit to the necessary due diligence. So we're pushing ahead on that. We have a different investor who has signed a term sheet for $ 0.5 million of them, and we're looking to in the timing of that. In terms of the time line for the pilot to the decision for Providence Health, that question is a little bit vague. But yes, in terms of Providence Health, our aspirations are to really scale this up to a national scale and then to be able to deploy those learnings internationally. In terms of the timeline here, we have meetings with their clinicians later in November. That will really define the project. We've been in contact with additional potential partners for that project. So I think we begin to sort of make headway during this quarter. We anticipate product being or VMS being installed at St Paul's in early Q1. And then rolling out to one or more centers probably in Q2. So this is rapidly evolving, but I think it's in a very positive way. I think with the next partners we're planning on bringing in, this will give us the sort of profile and the scope to begin attracting in a substantial amount of non-dilutive capital. So definitely, I think there is concern about small remote and indigenous communities and ensuring that they have equitable access to high-quality cardiac imaging. So I think this will be very timely and very much of interest to funding parties. So the great news is, is non-dilutive capital. And I think most investors should be reassured by that. Question from [ Philip ]. When you send relationship now goes live, what kind of numbers regarding sales you would expect here and what size of revenue? That's really to be determined. I think part of our learnings with recent sort of interactions with the sand as that they've been working primarily through channel partners, so it's a case where they're now developing stronger capabilities internally in terms of both marketing and sales. This cascades down the forecasting and the projections. So at this point, it's really kind of additive to our existing plan. The other thing with Ascend is I think they're putting a very strong emphasis and push on pediatrics. So we're hoping that they would be in the low double digits next year in terms of placement of systems. Any updates on the trials that we've been running over the years? Duke, [ Monteforte ], et cetera. So yes, we're still in contact with our users. Seattle has now progressed from sort of research used to using it and routine clinical practice. So their volumes are increasing. We've got another proposal in front of them for additional units. Interestingly, they are now getting referrals from other centers. So adult patients from the university hospital are now being referred there for VMS. So we're very first with that. I've mentioned guys in St Thomas. So we had a successful conclusion to that project. And we're now looking to roll out into routine clinical use as well as expansion to the other sites within the new amalgamated Health Trust there. The study at Duke is ongoing. They've now committed to a subscription. So that's encouraging. So off the top of my head, that's where we stand with a number of our studies. [ Philip ] has a lot of questions today, I see. Can you say something about the relationship with Fournel advisory and what they're working on? So there's three aspects to our engagement with Fournel. One is to raise capital preferably from family offices or high net worth individuals. So there's a very active outreach on that front. So I'm in contact with them twice a week on that front. And the list is growing. The second category is business development activities. So we've had a number of meetings and engagements with other ventures with technologies that would be technologies or customer bases that would be synergistic with both potential point in VMS. So those are proceeding nothing yet has sort of got to the point of consummating a formal agreement, but I believe that we're conducting a very effective outreach there and seeing some very interesting possibilities. A little bit outside of our agreement with them. They have been working on making some introductions to clinicians in Paris and in France, so we've now been in contract with some very senior cardiologists, people who are actually in decision-making roles with the government and I believe that this will facilitate market entry and hopefully, adoption of VMS within French hospitals. And then the final category is eventually looking towards acquisition partners or potential acquirers of Ventripoint -- [indiscernible] could you put your phone on mute, please? Yes. So there's a great to potential acquirers. This will be a longer-term project, but that is also in place. Justin is asking if the placement at St. Pauls is a purchase. We're working on the specific structure in terms of that. We're currently pursuing non-dilutive funding that we hope will result in the subscription to several systems. So that's the status of that. This is evolving quickly in a month from now. I think we'll be able to report more specifically on that. With the engagement with me. So we will have a release concerning Summit coming out within a couple of weeks. So I prefer to hold off until that time, we'll be more descriptive of the nature of the engagement and what the deliverables are. So [ Lord Jason Scott Gunter ]. Is the Canadian government in the picture at all? Not yet, but we're hoping very soon. So -- and in fact, I hope within weeks, we'll be able to report something on that front. Another question here regarding the time line regarding the finish of the ROI research paper. This will be a process. I think ultimately, it will take probably more than 12 months to complete. I think with the way this is planned, we're going to have multiple centers that actually pay to participate in this study. We'll be generating we'll be generating results as early as Q1, but really the depth and completeness of results that will build over time. And I think a year from now, we'll have something that looks very elegant. The initial feeling is, I think, by looking at this a little bit differently, we're hoping that we can demonstrate savings per hospital in the seventh figure range through the use of VMS. Question from [ Nigel ]. I know the Germans have been big fans, Dr. Laser being a leader in Europe, are they looking to purchase as well. So yes, we've reengaged with Angiopro, as I mentioned, they have participated in the recent convertible debenture offering. We're working with them now to sort of evolve capabilities in Europe the ability to do these on-site demonstrations. It's been a real bottleneck in frustration. It's also expensive in terms of us having to fly people to Europe. So this clearly is not scalable. They have been able to recruit a very senior sonographer who has a commercial orientation. So we're getting them trained. We'll be doing we'll be more active and more local in terms of being able to do demonstrations. We have one site there that we understand as funding prove for two systems. So that is on the radar right now. and another site that we feel we have the opportunity to close before year-end. A question here going back to the ROI studies, the ROI research would be live workflow in clinics. That's exactly it. So we're looking at this is real-world evidence. So looking at integration of VMS into workflow, but also the greater impacts within the hospital or the system. So just to provide some context or background. A lot of our focus to date has been more on outpatients and the ROI calculations really are based on our premise on reimbursement times number of procedures. So one patient, one procedure or on reimbursement. Recent insights are leading us to believe that there's a much more powerful sort of value proposition here, particularly in the case of inpatients. Diagnostic Imaging is a bottleneck within hospitals, someone is admitted with the cardiac complaint. They're put in a bed and then we'll have to wait perhaps for MRI. It also turns out that cardiology is a very low priority in diagnostic imaging. So these patients can be occupying a bed for multiple days. So we believe that there is a proposition that isn't so much based on that single patient and reimbursement of $150 per scan it's based on a single patient and them occupying a bed that is costing the hospital or the payer $6,000 to $9,000 a day. So that's what we're trying to drive towards, and we believe that, that aggregates into a significant number per site. George has mentioned Brazil many times in the past, any update there? Interestingly, yes. So one of my contacts or someone in my network, who has spin India, actually owns a couple of hospitals in India reached out to them for assistance, both development as well as finance. They came back to the suggesting that actually, Brazil was a very interesting market. I had a Zoom call with a number of stakeholders in Brazil very recently. So I think there is a high potential there, and we're not pursuing that both in terms of urban centers, high-volume centers as well as the interestingly small remote and indigenous populations. So this group has engaged currently in an outreach in the Amazon Basin with indigenous people. So very interesting and enough number of touch points there. Is it possible for hospitals in Europe, especially Germany, to bill the cost of VPTs with insurances? Or is it only possible to build the patient directly? I don't know. I can get back to you on that. Yes, at this point, it doesn't come to mind what their reimbursement model is. And again, with Dr. Laser and Lazarte, I can't really comment on sort of how they're building for this. [ Kerry Smith ] is asking for -- if you can provide any information regarding our foray into heart valves work. So yes, we've actually made substantial progress. We've had meetings with the head of a working group for the European Society of Echocardio -- European Society of Cardiology, they're looking to harmonize practices throughout Europe. So very timely interaction with them. As well as with -- we're going through a research proposal for a high-volume center in Northern Italy. So we're just looking at sort of the structure and costing of that. So that's very close at hand. We're getting some very interesting insights out of this. So at least in the European context, there are approximately 150 centers that are doing valve procedures. Many of them have a reasonable degree of confidence in what they're doing right now in terms of imaging despite the fact that VMS would provide certain benefits. But what surprised us was the report that there are 5x as many referring centers, so that's 750 hospitals where the patients are referred and the -- apparently, the quality of echo studies is typically very poor and requires repetition. So we've sort of entered this seeing an opportunity for 150 centers where probably in reality, at least in the European and British context, it's closer to 1,000. So here's another question to follow up on [ Kerry ], do heart producers see the potential in the VPT first look. So I believe the answer to that is yes. We recently had a video conference with the innovation wing or department of one of the major valve producers. They were pretty excited about it and are scheduling a follow-up meeting. We've since had another contract with a competing company, and it's been the same story. So I think at least in terms of initial discussions, they seem very interested. [ Matt ], in regards to the significance of Providence and St Pauls Hospital that could potentially lead Ventripoint to meeting the placement of around 100 units to trigger the eventual sale of the company. It seems like this avenue is one of the more promising of the last 4 to 5. We certainly believe it has the potential to do that. This will be something we have to build on in a stepwise fashion. So the first order of business is really working closely with the urban center at St. Paul's Hospital in Vancouver, getting the sort of basic design and validation done doing this in a way that we can begin rolling it out to more remote centers. And I think with some of the other partners that have hinted or potential partners that have hinted out this would very definitely lead to something more of a national scope. I would point out in Canada in congenital heart defects alone, there's 300,000 patients that require ongoing monitoring. And reportedly 33 centers. So that is just on the congenital side. Cancer oncology is a much bigger indication and definitely the need to accurately monitor these patients before during and following their chemotherapy the courses of chemotherapy treatment suggests a far bigger number with aging populations and increasing prevalence and incidence of both pulmonary hypertension or heart failure. Again, that's a much bigger number. And then finally, with well dysfunction. Literature is suggesting earlier intervention that's definitely recommended and appropriate. So that as well, I think, will speak to an increased number of centers wanting to adopt this. And just anecdotally, too, there was recently a report from the Ottawa Heart Institute. They have initiated 1 million patient screening program. So they are proactively going out into the community, screening people for cardiac dysfunction. We believe that VMS could be a great tool for them to use in that outreach. So all of this, I think, builds into a substantial base of systems, a substantial base that is actually paid for or subscribe to. And I think this will give us the profile and the visibility to make us more attractive to potential acquirers. I would also comment in terms of potential acquisition, our Marketing Director has really been doing a deep dive into product development and ensuring that this is guided by market need. So looking at our technology and product road map. As we move forward, VMS will evolve to a smaller form factor some point in the future will be in our eyes, a software-only product. So I think as we continue to build the user base to evolve the product, the end goal really is to be able to embed this into the technology stack of ideally multiple manufacturers, whether GE, Philips, Siemens, [ Mindray ] or Canon. I think there's huge potential. [ Kerry Smith ] are users of 4.0 generally happy with the product? Or do they want to see additional improvements? I would say on balance, they're happy. I think there was actually a big improvement with the introduction of the magnet free sensors, which technically with version 3.2. The additional automation in 4.0, I think, has been very well received by them. I think part of the ongoing engagement with customers and users is getting their insights and suggestions for further product enhancement. So yes, I think on balance, they're very happy with where the product has got to. I think they see additional opportunities for us to help them better integrate this into their workflow. Justin, do you know if any competitors are catching up to Ventripoint? I would say no. I think there's a number of competitors that make similar claims. Our feedback from actual users has been that these solutions really are not quite there. One of them being Tomtec. So I think they have a very sort of broad functionality, but definitely in terms of accuracy of great ventricle volumes in ejection fractions, we're hearing that it's not really equivalent to MRI. If you look at our technology and product offering, I would say the our castle, if you could describe it that way, really is the KBR database. So this has been built up over 20 years. It's thousands of MRI images. So that is a huge task. And especially in today's environment where I think there's enhanced sensitivity and consideration of privacy, confidentiality and informed consent this would be even more cumbersome to put together. KBR definitely has a castle. And I think at this point, I've seen nothing like it. And our VMS software is really the moat that surrounds that castle. So I think we're on pretty good grounds there for the next few years, at least. [ Nigel ] is saying, feel free to send me the forefront machine and go walk it over to Children's Hospital in Columbus, Ohio. They had an earlier version. Actually, I would love to reestablish contact with Children's Hospital in Columbus, Ohio. Earlier this year, we sponsored the adult congenital heart defect meeting in Toronto. That conference was actually a joint venture, joint activity between Sick Kids Hospital in Toronto at and the hospital in Columbus. We're very much already -- very much like to reengage with them. So as we come to the end of the call here today, we thank you again for all of your interesting and support and continued interest in Ventripoint. It's been a challenging year, but we continue to move the company forward. I think we feel very confident of the technology and our prospects and look forward to reporting some exciting things over the coming weeks and months. Thank you again.