Veolia Environnement SA (VIE) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to Veolia's Strategy Day. My name is Frédérique Bedos, I'm a journalist, and I'm delighted to be a host for this live event. Thank you all for attending, you in the room, and you who are following us online. This event will be both in French and in English. For the audience here in the room, translation headsets are available. Channel 1 is for English and Channel 2 is for French. And for you who are online, you can choose to follow this presentation with or without translation. You just have to click on the icon of your choice. Floor, which means without translation, English or French. We are together for roughly 2 hours, and here is the program. In a short moment, Estelle Brachlianoff, CEO of Veolia, will present the strategy of the group up to 2027. Claude Laruelle, Deputy CEO, Finance, Digital and Purchasing, of the group will then join us and share the key figures of the plan. And right now don't hesitate to download the slide deck, which is already available on the platform. This event is interactive, so it means that, at the end of the presentation, we will dedicate plenty of time to answer to your questions. And to submit to us your questions, it's very simple. For you in the room, you just have to raise your hands, and the microphone will come to you. [Operator Instructions] You can ask your questions in French or in English, your choice. I think we are all eager to begin, but first of all, we need to have the global context in mind. The title of the video we are about to watch is short and powerful: Now. [Presentation]

[Interpreted] Let's get started then. Let's do it in French with a welcome address by CEO of the Veolia group, Estelle Brachlianoff.

[Interpreted] Hello, everyone, and thank you for coming in such large numbers to today's Strategy Day and thank you to those that collected online as well. The idea is to present the main orientation for the next years for Veolia. And thus, our new strategic plan, GreenUp. GreenUp means greening, so making compatible with the ecological transformation, what is it today? So switching from before that is worrying to a reassuring after for everyone and for a long time. GreenUp means having really recognized everywhere as the missing link in the ecological transformation even more than today and faster. And GreenUp means now because demands won't wait. So how can we preserve the competitiveness of economic stakeholders by freeing them from the ties that bind them to energy costs. The answer is summed up in a single concept, GreenUp. How can we preserve the sovereignty of public stakeholders by freeing them from the dependence on distant sources of supply? GreenUp. How can we protect people's health, ensuring that they no longer suffer from their way of life, by removing the dangers of waste and pollution, GreenUp. How can we protect the balance of ecosystem by limiting distraction of natural resources, GreenUp, again. We are, in fact, at a crossroads. Before us lies either an ecology that penalizes to device individuals, associations, businesses and countries or an ecology that protects by transforming decarbonizing, depolluting and regenerating. An ecology that protects health, well-being and purchasing power. The strategic autonomy and detectiveness of regions and the competitiveness of industry as well. This is the kind of ecology that transforms in order to protect that people all over the world are asking for. A few years ago, stakeholders at the forefront of ecological transformation, so that repeated explanations and evidence would be enough for society as a whole to come together and take action. Today, we know that knowledge is not enough. Of course, there is greater awareness, but it has not yet been followed by actions are not enough or rather successions are too slow, too scattered, too expensive or not effective enough. And all this, when on the contrary, we should be speeding up. Because today, everyone from pole to pole has now seen the tangible effects of climate change, so we have seen droughts, storms, floods. There have been billions of dollars of damage and victims, so it used to be a matter for experts or states, and it has now become part of everyone's daily life. The results of our worldwide barometer and ecological transformation show very clear results. People won't change in terms of ecology, especially because now they've haven't understood the huge positive effect that it could have on their health. And because the inflation of energy costs and of insurance against climate risk shows that the cost of inaction is much higher than the cost of taking action. This is, therefore, the time for us to speed up, to transform, to redouble our efforts and above all, to offer solutions because people everywhere are demanding to be shown the way forward. How do we get from point A where we are today with the vulnerabilities that everybody knows about to point B, the necessity of which is only matched by its difficulty. This is where Veolia comes in as the missing link that is currently missing in ecological transformation. The link that makes the connection between the demand for protection and the offer of solutions, thanks to GreenUp. By offering concrete solutions that are affordable, replicable, not only decarbonizing, but also depolluting and regenerating resources, so not only for cities, but also for industries and reconciling human progress and the limitation of the planet. So GreenUp is not a magic solution. It's a methodical solution. It means choosing our battles and focusing our efforts where they are the most necessary and most transformative. That is to say where greenhouse gas emissions are the highest, where pollution is the most serious, where natural resources are the scarcest, in those places where, as a result, [ the markets ] is the biggest. Because, for example, in terms of climate, it's more effective to drastically reduce carbon emission from a coal-fired power plant than to green up things that are already very green. It is, of course, commendable and necessary to build 3.0 factories that are completely decarbonized, but we cannot sweep the millions of factories that are already in operations under the rug because they are immeasurably greater in number. So we want to take the lead on the most critical front in terms of ecological transformation, where it's going to be lost or won. So this is where volumes are the biggest, emissions are the most significant, and the challenge is the most difficult. For Veolia, this is our biggest responsibility as well as our greatest opportunity, in fact. And it's only by acting in places most at risk can we deliver the most critical impact. Becoming the missing link of ecological transformation implies providing the whole range of necessary solutions and in this respect, Veolia has never been stronger. Adding to the solutions that it already has at its fingertips, those that we are currently inventing. Nor has it ever been in such a good position as a leader in all its geographical zones. Local decarbonizing energy, Veolia already provide it; and with GreenUp, we're accelerating. Water recovered, cleared-up pollutants and reused, Veolia already does that. And with GreenUp, we're accelerating. Pollutant waste collected and destroyed to protect health and ecosystems, Veolia already does that. And with GreenUp, we're accelerating. First, we accelerate by duplicating solutions wherever they are required in all our geographical zones. We accelerate by adapting these solutions to the needs of our municipal and industrial customers for whom our services are essential because they answer their essential stakes with strategic or even critical. We accelerate because by combining our solutions and adding our power of innovation, we put ourselves in the best possible position to invent more solutions based on the investments that our size allows or even to catalyze. Our unique solutions on the whole scope of essential services for ecological transformation all testify our know-how. Applied individually, they are highly effective, but together, they are truly formidable. So not only decarbonization, but also adaptation; not only acceptability, but also competitiveness; and the strategic independence and sovereignty of the territories; quality of life, but also people's health. As you understand, the market in which Veolia operates is no longer a market of supply but is now becoming a market of demand. Demand is growing and this is to answer it that we have to move even faster. And that is why we're talking about an annual market that was never bigger, EUR 2.5 trillion and counting. Because our footprint is unparalleled, which means we can ensure that everybody can rapidly reap the benefits of the -- each one of the best practices, new solutions and latest innovations that were originally implemented on the other side of the world. Duplicating means we can accelerate. In short, it's not ecological transformation. Not only we want to lead it, but above all, we know how to lead it. And last but not least, this ecological transformation, we have the capacity to lead it. This is due to our size, our status as a global champion that creates a virtuous circle. And because the results presented this morning are historical and those despite a lackluster macro context illustrated by volumes of waste that have remained flat since September of 2022 because we have delivered both the financial and nonfinancial results of our impact on '23 plan while leaving from COVID, acquiring Suez and facing the energy crisis. On each occasion, we're able to adapt quickly and strongly, ensuring the resilience of our results in a changing and troubled context. We have controlled debt, with a leverage ratio of 2.7x, less than 2 years after the purchase of Suez and ahead of our trajectory. And a ROCE in excess of 8% after tax. We have doubled our net income in 5 years. We know how to achieve growth, such as in hazardous waste where revenue has increased from EUR 2.5 billion to more than EUR 4 billion in 4 years. We have also shown that we know how to make our acquisitions a success with the integration that was exemplary for the teams as we -- so with Suez, that is already a success. We have the capacity to lead the ecological transformation because the commitment of our staff is unique. And to be able to claim this, we have measured this commitment, 89%. 89% of our employees tell us that they would recommend family and friends to work for Veolia and that they feel they are contributing to ecological transformation. And it was as much to increase this level of commitment even further as to thank our staff that I decided to set up the Veolia Cares plan, which offers core minimum benefits for all our employees all over the world regardless of the local legislation. And I'm proud also that Veolia's employees subscribe in such huge numbers to our employee shareholding plan and that they have become the group's largest shareholder with 7.5% of the stakes. As you can see -- so ecological transformation, we want to lead it and we can lead it. We know how to lead it. This is the whole stake of GreenUp, our new strategic plan. GreenUp gives priority to accelerating the deployment of existing solutions with 3 growth boosters, but also innovation. It is priority to decarbonizing, to depolluting and to regenerating resources for everyone and for a long time. GreenUp is our chance to build this growth boosters on the long-standing cornerstones of a company that has deep and solid foundations because it has always delivered essential services. Those foundations are where we are the strongest today: in municipal water, solid waste, heating networks. Building on these strong foundations, we will deploy our growth boosters such as bioenergy locally produced from waste and wastewater, water technologies and the treatments of hazardous waste. These growth boosters are all reservoirs of solutions and largely untapped local resources and nobody knows better than Veolia how to detect them and to tap into them rather than wasting them. GreenUp specifically means speeding up the efficient delivery of these solutions and resources and making clear choices, so these boosters currently represents 30% of our revenue, but we plan to invest 50% of our growth investments in them. That means EUR 2 billion, and EUR 2 billion is as much as we invested in all our businesses during the last plan. GreenUp means prioritizing reconciliation between the present and the future, between targets and capacities and between the planet and progress, but also between ecology and economy because GreenUp in terms of ecology means making Veolia a champion in decarbonization, removing 18 million tons of our customers' carbon. This is referred to as Scope 4. In parallel, we are accelerating Veolia's own decarbonization with a new target of 50% lower emissions by 2032 and the exit of -- from coal in Europe in this decade. It's also a champion in de-pollution, disposing off 10 million tons of hazardous waste, all of which are pollutants that are harmful to health and ecosystem. Lastly, a champion in resource efficiency and regeneration, starting with water, with 1.5 billion cubic meters less water extracted, thanks to our services, which is equivalent to the consumption of the population in greater Paris. As I mentioned, GreenUp means reconciling the economy with ecology. GreenUp will ensure excellent growth for a long time in all circumstances and growth that will accelerate. We are aiming for a solid growth in all our activities, with a more material impact from our 3 boosters. On these boosters, we'll put resources with 50% of our investments and 70% of our future growth compared to only 30% of our current revenue. We aim, by 2027, of reaching an EBITDA of at least EUR 8 billion and we will not relax our operational excellence efforts, which will enable us to grow our current net profit even faster at an average rate of 10% per year under the GreenUp plan. And of course, we are talking about a virtuous circle because the growing demand of our services all over the world and our unique positioning as the missing link in the ecological transformation as well as our operational management that will enable us to accelerate results not only in terms of growth but for many years to come. And thanks to these financial results, we will reward our shareholders as well as reinvesting in new projects for even more impact. So as you understood, GreenUp will overall allow Veolia to reap the champions dividend. Thank you.

[Interpreted] Thank you, Estelle Brachlianoff, for sharing your thoughts and setting out the overall vision that underpins your strategy. So how do you intend to implement GreenUp? That's what you're going to explain now. And now we're switching languages. Estelle, are you ready?

I am. Our group, which this morning published its 2023 results with a revenue of EUR 45 billion, now has the opportunity to offer its customer unique know-how not only in water, energy and waste, but in the combination of all those activities. We are very well positioned with differentiating offers in each of those businesses as the world leader in water and hazardous waste and as the European leader in circular economy. With GreenUp, we have made choices. In the GreenUp plan, we will devote most of our attention and resources to 3 growth boosters: local energy that is bioenergy, energy efficiency for building and industries and flexibility; water technologies and new solutions, enabling us to recycle water and to treat new pollutants; and finally, the treatment of hazardous waste, which enables us to treat pollutant and thus protect human health and ecosystems. We already have successful offers in each of those growth boosters. What we need to do now is duplicate them with new customers and in new countries. The group's other activities are the foundations, the fertile ground on which these GreenUp boosters can develop. These foundations are solid and resilient, services that are essential to the population or to industry and often comparable to infrastructure. In these core activities, heating networks, municipal water and solid waste, we wish to maintain our operational excellence and innovation. Overall, these GreenUp boosters account for about 30% of our current revenue, but they will generate 70% of the growth in the GreenUp plan. So I would like to start with energy. Energy is an activity, which also combine strong goals and growth boosters. Although this activity is probably the least well known of the group, in 2023, it already accounted for more than EUR 12 billion revenue or 27% of the group's turnover. And this is one of the core activities and one that has experienced the strongest growth in the recent years. As we detailed at our Energy Deep Dive in London a few weeks ago, at Veolia, energy means local energy, on the scale of a city or an industrial park and not centralized energy. And it is decarbonizing energy, which helps reduce our customer's carbon footprint. This activity is driven by a powerful dynamic, the need to decarbonize cities and industries, particularly in Europe where the price of carbon has been over EUR 70 on average over the last 3 years. Costs and purchasing powers concern as well and their consequences, namely the demand for efficiency, reduction of wasted consumption, the reuse of every possible calorie. Thirdly, the need for more flexibility, which goes in parallel with the development of intermittent renewables. And last, the search for security of energy supply and more recently a specific added interest in local sourcing and the quest for strategic independence, so as not to be dependent on imported fossil fuels. District heating networks are the solid foundation comparable to infrastructure and providing essential services. Our operational excellence and digital technology make it possible to reduce networks leaks and ensure maximum energy efficiency. This is precisely what enables us to be competitive and to enjoy new connection on our networks almost everywhere. These same networks also allow us to develop other services such as electricity cogeneration and flexibility, which are very profitable. In this activity, our GreenUp boosters are bioenergy, flexibility as well as energy efficiency for building and industries. And our task is to tap into a largely untapped reservoir of 400 gigawatt on the European scale. And you can multiply by 4 if you want the global scale. This reservoir consists of bioenergies produced from nonrecyclable waste, from wastewater, from recovered waste, recovered wasted heat, wasted electricity as well that can be saved in buildings simply by managing them better. 400 gigawatt is equivalent of 1.3 billion barrels of oil, which is double the annual production of Norway. Energy, which is sourced locally in Europe, which is affordable, which is renewable. In a way, Europe has a largely untapped resource here, and Veolia is here to unlock it. And we have a big ambition and since we are talking about energy, I would like to express this ambition in energy terms. And to tell you that Veolia will produce 8 gigawatt of bioenergy locally sourced as well as to have a flexible installed base of 3 gigawatt by the end of the decade, which represents a growth of at least 50%. Veolia thus has a big ambition for local decarbonizing energy, which will be supported by doubling our growth of investment during this period, bearing in mind that EUR 1 invested by Veolia generates EUR 3 or EUR 4 in total since we have partners and investors ready to support those projects. 75% of this capacity has already been secured indeed with well-identified projects, including more than 300 megawatt from landfill site in France as we announced 3 weeks ago. And I'm often asked, how could we move faster? And those asking are often surprised by the answer because it's not a matter of money, but rather of red tape. Do you realize that, on average, it takes 4 years to obtain permits and planning for such project in Europe? Although, the continent possesses a local, affordable renewable resource, so we also need the strongholds of administrative delays to be eased. To take a few examples now, let us start with bioenergy production, which Europe is aiming to double in the energy mix by 2030 from 10% to 20%. Such production takes place right at the crossroad between our water, waste and energy businesses. It consists of natural gas, methane produced from the degradation of organic waste, sludge from sewage treatment plants or food waste. It consists of electricity produced from nonrecyclable waste. And finally, it comes as well from solar panels that are installed on closed landfill sites. Finally, I would like to say a few words about the energy efficiency for buildings and industries using the example of our activities in the Middle East, which have experienced double-digit growth in the last few years. Typically, we can guarantee our customers such as shopping centers or leisure centers 15% to 20% of energy savings without touching the building envelope, but simply by improving energy management day to day. And how is that done? By installing sensors and managing real-time data, which are then feeding into our Hubgrade control centers, to which more recently we have added artificial intelligence tools. Because we never let go any opportunity to develop our local decarbonizing energy.

Well, obviously we are now at the core of the subject, so can we move on to Water, as it also combines strongholds and growth boosters? Am I right?

You are. And water is core business for Veolia, the business that started the company 170 years ago and in which we are clearly still the leader today. We are the leader in terms of size with revenue of EUR 18 billion, but we are also the leader in terms of our unique know-how and presence in the various components of the business, from operations to technologies, which support one another and on every continent. Since it started, this business has been considerably transformed and particularly in recent years because water is one of the first things to be affected by climate change. Too little water or too much water or not at the right time or not at the right place. And we saw this in France in the summer of 2022. We've seen it in the U.K. and in Spain with drought, sometimes followed by floods. Our historical operating activities, namely management of the production and distribution of drinking water and wastewater constitute a solid and resilient foundation, a service that is essential to the population, as we somehow rediscovered it during the COVID crisis. The challenge is to maintain our operational excellence and thus the best value for money, which allows us to renew more than 90% of our contracts, particularly thanks to innovation whether in leak detection, in customer service to support economy of consumption, on the quality of treatment used to filter out new pollutants. And our offer to the Syndicat des Eaux d'Île-de-France, the SEDIF, is therefore unique in many ways and shows what the water service of the future could look like as designed by the world leader and by the best experts. It includes 10 world's firsts, which I would be delighted to present to you in more detail shortly. Our global presence is also essential for us to duplicate and to anticipate. Our teams in Santiago de Chile, where the flow of the Mapocho River have gone down by 70% in the last 10 years; or in Barcelona, they all have learned the lessons and developed solutions that are now very useful in France and elsewhere. This dynamic also applies to our industrial customers, who as you know consume 20% of the world's water. The business is being transformed and becoming more and more technological. In a way, we have finally made the transition from water distribution business to water science business; in short, from utilities to technology. And this trend has accelerated with the first effects of global warming, which everyone has experienced. The development of our technology and new solution activities, which are GreenUp boosters for the group is therefore driven by a powerful dynamic based on a few key offers: scarcity of fossil resources, which has resulted in the quest for efficient water use both in industrial process and in distribution network, in the massive development of reuse or water recycling as well as in the development of seawater desalination. Water quality, particularly in terms of health, remains a major issue and where we are developing technologies to treat new pollutants that are, not long ago, were not even measured such as PFAS and microplastics. And alongside these, there is the development of industry in general, but particularly the development of certain industries. And I'm thinking of the industry that are critical to the energy transition such as lithium; or industry that are strategic such as microelectronics or pharmaceuticals, where there are huge investments associated with reshoring. All these industries, they need processed water or even ultrapure water. So when I meet with Intel, which is the Veolia's customer, the question they ask me is, "Ms. Brachlianoff, how can we help me reduce my water consumption per gigabyte in Ireland to the level we've achieved in Arizona?" Because this is an essential factor in competitiveness. The good news is that we have both an installed geographical base of customer and contracts with cities and industries and a unique portfolio of proprietary solutions and technologies to address those challenges, which include almost 5,000 patents. And to put a figure on the potential of our solutions, we are talking about 50 billion cubic meters of water which could be saved or left in the environment or not extracted, which is like a gigantic reservoir. And for those of you who wonder what 50 billion cubic meter of water is? This is the equivalent of the total annual consumption of the entire European population, so we have a big ambition here. You understood. And we are aiming to add 50%, at least, to our revenue from such new solutions and technologies by the end of the decade, both for manufacturers and for cities alike. And I'm very confident we will achieve this target, judging by our current order book which is full and growing rapidly. On order book in water tech, which is worth EUR 5.3 billion at the end of 2023, up 13%; or even by the 50 reuse unit we've been ordered in France in just 1 year compared to less than 3 a year ago. Here again much of our future growth is largely onboard. And finally, let me take an example with the lithium industry. And for that, let's watch a video. [Presentation]

You read well. 1.5 million liters of water to extract just 1 ton of lithium. And you understand why, even for an industrial company, Veolia technologies are absolutely essential. In the fall, we will have an opportunity to do a deep dive into all those water technologies and new solutions.

Well, this chapter about Water is crystal clear, if I can put it this way, and very promising. So let's finish with Waste, which again combines essential services and growth boosters.

And this is another core activity for Veolia, representing a revenue of almost EUR 15 billion in 2023. It ranges from solid waste, that is to say the collection, treatment and recycling of waste from household and businesses; to hazardous waste in the case of industrial sites, typically in pharmaceuticals, automotive or microelectronics. Solid waste is an eminently local activity, in which we have chosen to focus on a few strongholds where we can make a difference and continue to grow not only France, Germany, Belgium and the U.K., but also in Australia where we are #1. In the last few years, solid waste has continued its transformation with reduced volumes sent to landfill in favor of nonrecyclable waste recovered as bioenergy on the one hand, and waste recycling in the circular economy on the other hand. At Veolia, we, therefore, see waste as a resource, a source that [ don't ] provide energy or new materials and a further illustration of the growth combining our various businesses. Mercedes has always been obvious to us, but it has now become a necessity. We help our customers make this transformation, for example, with plastic recycling, where we are now #1 with 36 plants around the world. And of course, the best waste is the waste that is not produced. And we also offer what we call eco-design services for major brands to avoid of purging and think about recycling from the start. Our growth is boosted faster in hazardous waste, which is not surprising because these activities underpin on the one hand, by industrialization or even reindustrialization and the relocation of key industries. On the other, by legislation to protect ecosystems and human health from dangerous pollutions. The Lancet magazine estimated that each year air, water or soil pollution caused a death of 9 million people. This is one fix of all deaths, which are attributable to pollution. We are already the world leader in this hazardous waste treatment business, and we have a presence on all continents, notably with strongholds in Europe and the U.S., which have then enabled us to deploy our rather unique offers in other geographies such as Asia, South America and more recently the Middle East. And you will have the opportunity to see this during the Deep Dive dedicated to the U.S. in April. The barriers to entry are substantial both for this network of assets and for our ultra specialized know-how because one cannot treat in the same way a solvent as a PCB or residues of medicinal products. And Veolia owns its treatment plants. That includes high temperature incineration, physicochemical treatment, [ inerting and monitored storage. ] And it is a set of assets serving industrial companies that are unique in the world. During COVID, our biotech customers in Massachusetts near the MIT showed us how essential those services are for industrial customers. Currently we have growth built in and assured, with 8 plants under constructional development, particularly in the Emirates, in Germany, and in the U.S. These should open their doors in the next 2 years, providing a further growth boost. And we will also seize acquisition opportunities to accelerate our development, such as those recently seen in Japan and the U.S. And since I mentioned lithium a few moments ago, I should say that we are also innovating here, as we've seen in the movie because we have developed a unique hydrometallurgy process that enables extraction of the precious cobalt, nickel and lithium from used batteries both from phones and electric vehicles. A plant that is the first of its kind will open in east of France in the next few months. And we have a big ambition here to treat more than 12 million tons and achieve more than 50% increase of revenue by 2030 with these treatment capacities. All those 12 million tons of pollutants that are dangerous for human health and ecosystem. And that will be eliminated, thanks to Veolia.

Thank you. Thank you very much, Estelle Brachlianoff, for this update on your 3 main activities: energy, water and waste. Now can you please explain to us why GreenUp is also about speeding up innovation?

As you can see, the priority of our boosters is to deploy existing and already profitable solution to more customers and in more geographies. The size of the group and its new dimension both in terms of business and geographical reach means that we can devote resource to finding solutions that do not yet exist, solution that will drive Veolia's growth not only tomorrow, but well into the future. In this respect, also, GreenUp means speeding up innovation. It means speeding up the dedicated resources with an additional 200 million invested in industrial pilots or in the acquisition of new technologies to add to our almost 5,000 patents. That means more than doubling our investments, but it also means leveraging our size. And this is why we operate as a global network with 14 research and innovation centers worldwide and 8 thematic hubs located as close as possible to where geographical areas face key issues. In the U.S., for instance, our team are taking the lead in terms of treatments of new pollutants such as PFAS. And I should also mention open innovation and partnership with universities because innovation often succeed within ecosystems. So which areas and subjects will we be prioritizing for innovation in next few years? In a way, what are the new frontiers for Veolia? In terms of decarbonization, the new frontier for us is to find a circular economy loop for carbon and in particular for biogenic carbon. We all know carbon capture will have its role to reach net zero, but it is usually followed by storage in geologic layers. And what we want to invent in Veolia is a way to recycle carbon; and particularly biogenic carbon, which is the virtuous one, as it is naturally formed and originated from trees and plants. This carbon could be transformed into methanol or green aviation fuel known as SAF. And there is a booming market for SAF, which is highly supported, as it is a way to decarbonize the aviation industry. With respect to the regeneration of resources, we are working on the recycling and recovery of strategic metals from used batteries or industrial effluents. And we will also focus our efforts on enhancing the treatment of new pollutants such as endocrine disruptors, pesticide residues or PFAS. And there is in fact another thing that affects all our businesses and that I haven't forgotten, Generative AI. We already use traditional artificial intelligence and machine learning for various operational applications such as leak detection or optimizing energy production, but we have also started a dozen tests or proof of concept on new applications which are made possible by generative AI from Veolia internal secured GPT, which is already in place, to predictive maintenance for our desalination plants, just to name a few. And you probably now understand why I qualify Veolia as the missing link for ecological transformation because we leverage from our scale to deploy the existing solution to decarbonize, to depollute and we invent the one we don't have yet.

You have told us everything about the what. Now can you share with us about the how? How are you going to accelerate and deliver GreenUp?

GreenUp is about speeding up and scaling up our solutions and our technologies. These 3 growth boosters rooted in essential services as well as increased effort in innovation, but above all, it is the combination of these different elements that enable us to go further and faster, combination of various businesses, combination of boosters and strongholds and combination of geographies. That is the winning formula for Veolia. First, the combination of our various businesses. What makes us relevant to our customers is not only our expertise in water, in waste and energy, but also what lies at the intersection between them or, even more, what solution we can offer when we combine them. And just a few illustrations, starting with bioenergy. Bioenergy is locally sourced and produced from nonrecyclable waste and wastewater. People even talk about that as waste to energy or water to energy and what better illustration than in those words of what I just said? Another example of the treatment of new pollutants such as PFAS, which combines water operations, water technologies and hazardous waste. Our membranes enable us to extract PFAS from water before it is distributed to the water networks and then to destroy them in our high temperature hazardous waste incineration plants. Our GreenUp strategic choices are bound to result in us rebalancing the respective wastes of the group's various businesses: water, waste and energy. But I must say I cannot distinguish necessarily between them, as we are gradually moving towards a series of efforts to decarbonize, to depollute and regenerate resource, combining wastewater and energy to do so. Then there is the combination of GreenUp boosters with essential services and our strongholds. We have made clear choices and put our weight behind our 3 boosters and that's reflected in the numbers. We plan to invest EUR 2 billion in these boosters under the GreenUp plan, which is as much as in all our businesses in the last plan. These boosters represent 30% of the group's revenue today, 50% of our future growth investment and 70% of our future growth. And finally, there is the combination of our different countries. And it's not only our strong presence in each country which makes us successful but also our ability to duplicate solution from one country to another, what we call copy and adapt in Veolia. Our geographical footprint is already largely international, with a presence in 44 countries and 20% of our revenue in France, 40% in Europe and 40% outside Europe, including $5 billion in the U.S. Again our aim is to continue to become more international at an accelerated pace and to reach 50% outside Europe. And we won't do that by reducing our activities in Europe, but by growing faster outside the continent. And our geographical strategy is guided by some key principles. We aim to be in the top 3 of business in the country in order to carry weight and make a difference, and this is a key principle for us and one which is particularly important when you want to have pricing power, but we are also diversifying our risk. And apart from the U.S., no country should exceed 10% of the group's capital employed. This diversified allocation of capital seems, to me, crucial in today's world of geopolitical tensions, in which demand for our services can be seen everywhere. Under the GreenUp plan, we've identified 3 geographical areas of accelerated development based on those principles: the U.S., where we already achieved a revenue of $5 billion in this country, mainly in water and hazardous waste. And I must say, the renaissance of American industry and the effort to upgrade its infrastructure are very promising for Veolia. And as I said earlier on, I invite you to join us for a deep dive into our North American activities on April 18 on the ground in New York and Houston. The Middle East. In desalination, in energy services, and pretty much all services that accompany the industrial development of that part of the world. We exceed EUR 1 billion in revenue in 2023 and we are not stopping here. Finally, Australia, where we already have revenues of more than EUR 2 billion and support our customer in the most efficient management of water resource and decarbonization. In a nutshell, GreenUp is about scaling up and speeding up.

Thank you. Thank you very much, Estelle Brachlianoff, for all these precious elements. Please take a seat at the desk, as it's time now to welcome on stage Veolia's CFO, Claude Laruelle. Claude Laruelle, you will now give us some figures showing GreenUp's plans and ambition, starting with Co2. And if I follow the logic, after the what, the how, let's see the how much. And what is the impact?

Thank you, Frédérique. And as just highlighted, GreenUp is a step ahead, which will strengthen Veolia's worldwide leadership in the global ecological transformation market. In the next 4 years, we will speed up growth and, at the same time, accelerate the decarbonization of both Veolia and our client assets, as the demand for green energy is becoming bigger every day. What I will present is the results of the compilation of concrete projects in all our BUs that have been embarked over the last 18 months in this very ambitious decarbonization plan. To summarize our accelerated decarbonization plan, you have to keep 3 main numbers in mind: minus 50% Scope 1 and 2 in 2032, thanks to the acceleration of our investment in coal exit in Europe and in biogas capture in our landfills; plus 50%, by 2030, on Scope 4, the erased emission for our clients; and net zero by 2050. All those new commitments are compatible with the 1.5 degree trajectory set by the Paris Agreement. This accelerated plan has been submitted to SBTi in December 2023, and we expect the approval by this summer. How will we reduce Scope 1 and 2 in our activities by 50% by 2032? This acceleration has been made possible by leveraging all our activities and geographies. Starting with our energy business, it will represent 40% of the reduction. We will switch significantly to greener energy in Europe and leverage all our energy efficiency know-how to get to that number. The second strong contributor for also around 40% is our waste activities. We will deploy our best practices in biogas capture in all our geographies. We have already done a lot in France and in the U.K., but we have a strong plan in Latin America, in Australia, and in Hong Kong. In the meantime, we will use cleaner vehicles and remove plastic from our waste-to-energy projects. And the third one is the use of greener energy in our water activities. In order to prepare for the next phase, to get to net zero, we will also pilot existing and new technologies on carbon capture with efficient mine to reduce costs and energy and also new membranes to concentrate CO2 from the flue gas. To get from 18 million tons in 2032 to net zero in 2050, we will use green energy in all our activities. Biogas instead of natural gas, green electricity instead of natural gas or brown electricity in emerging markets. We will also capture CO2 where there is no alternative, like in hazardous waste. What about our coal exit program in Europe? Our commitment is very clear to fully exit coal in Europe by 2030. And we are already well advanced, and we have spent EUR 0.5 billion on a EUR 1.6 billion plan. We have already completed 3 main projects in Prerov and Kolin in the Czech Republic; and in Braunschweig in Germany. The coal-fired plants are shut down; and now we operate on biomass, refuse-derived fuel and some natural gas. In Poland, that started a little bit later. We are building a new facility in Poznan that will be commissioned in 2025. And we are preparing a second large project in [indiscernible] that will be ready by 2027. All those projects have a good internal rate of return above 10%. The coal transition is profitable, but GreenUp goes beyond reducing scope 1 and 2. The demand of our clients is to reduce their own Scope 1 and 2, and sometimes we have to take the emission on our balance sheet. We have therefore built a Scope 4 ambition on the emission that we erase at our clients. We have already done a lot over the last 10 years, with 15.5 million tons erased from the planet. And our plan is to increase by 50% by 2030. A very good example is what we do in Australia. We are currently developing project that will benefit the planet for more than 0.5 million tons. Our clients will reduce by 1.1 million, but Veolia's Scope 1 will increase by 0.6 million. But the balance will be positive for the planet.

Well, this is really impressive and ambitious, Claude. Now what about the GreenUp financial trajectory?

Yes, let's speak now about GreenUp financial trajectory. As Estelle described earlier, our activities are split into, on one side, macro-resilient strongholds with an infrastructure-like profile, municipal water, solid waste and district heating. These activities are essential services and they have long-term contracts and strong visibility on cash flow generation. These 3 activities combined generate EUR 31 billion of revenue in 2023. They will enjoy solid growth in the years to come. And on the other side, 3 growth boosters grounded on our strongholds: water technologies and new solution; hazardous waste treatment; and in Energy, bioenergy, renewables, flexibility and energy efficiency. These activities generated a EUR 14 billion revenue in 2023. They will deliver mid- to high single digits revenue growth in the years to come. Coming back to each category in detail. Let's describe the business models of our strongholds. The first one, municipal water that generated EUR 13.5 billion of revenue in 2023. Veolia is #1 in Europe and worldwide. The activity offers a very high visibility. We have 2 main segments: the nonregulated water mostly in Europe and in the U.S. and in Africa and Middle East, represents 90% of the activity. The business model is low capital employed with long-term contracts, and more than 90% of renewal rate, and we have high return on capital. The regulated water in the U.S. and in Chile, with a revenue of 1.4 billion with secured returns, 50-plus EBITDA margin, high net income contribution and fast conversion from CapEx to net income. The second one, district heating network, generated EUR 7.3 billion of revenue in 2023, more than 90% based in Central Europe. We are #2 player in Europe. We are running very efficient essential infrastructure where we own the assets and where energy costs are passed through to our clients. Our hedging policy on fuel and energy gives us a strong visibility. We also invest in energy transition in Central Europe, as I mentioned, with double-digit IRR. Solid waste now generated EUR 10.5 billion of revenue in 2023. We're in the top 3 in each of our countries, allowing us to have pricing power, which has been key in the last few years. Over the last 18 months, we have demonstrated our ability to cope with a lackluster macro environment in this activity, thanks to a mixed portfolio of municipal and commercial customers, good selectivity and prioritizing value over volume. This business offers good profitability and a precious reservoir for bioenergy and recyclates. You understand that these strongholds will ensure solid top line growth and cash generation in the years to come. As Estelle told you, our 3 growth boosters are made of water technology, hazardous waste, bioenergy and flexibility. They are driven by underlying powerful trends, industrialization and reshoring, water scarcity and need to adapt to climate change, human health and pollutants removal. Those trends, combined with our leadership position, are powerful engine in the years to come. And they will grow, typically mid- to high single digit, for those GreenUp booster. Starting with water technology. Revenue amounted to EUR 4.9 billion in 2023. And we are enjoying a strong backlog and a very strong pipeline of projects in desalination, in lithium and in water reuse. Water technology is really a fast-growing activity. We deliver a lot of project to our customers with a positive cash curve and minimal capital employed. And once we have built, we have a good customer base to whom we are selling services. Water tech has become a less-capital-intensive activity since we invest now mostly in membrane manufacturing facility expansion, our mobile fleet development with typically 20% IRR. Second booster regroups our activity in bioenergy, renewable, flexibility and energy efficiency. Revenue was EUR 4.9 billion in 2023. Energy efficiency is mostly a service business, thus less capital intensive, where we have medium- to long-term contracts. And we operate assets of our customers with energy consumption reduction targets. Bioenergy and flexibility is a business with high margin where we own the asset or derive additional value from our strongholds, typically flexibility from district heating or bioenergy from waste. Third booster is hazardous waste. As Estelle mentioned, we own a unique and quite impossible to replace network of 300 merchant plants in 29 countries, with a total revenue of EUR 4.2 billion in 2023. This activity benefits from high barrier to entry. We own all our assets and invest in new treatment capacity with double-digit IRR. Over the last 3 years, we have invested in new facilities across the world and we will get the EBITDA contribution in 2025 and 2026. You understand that these boosters will ensure top line growth and margin growth as well. As we were talking about accelerating our growth, let me talk now about our solid foundation that have demonstrated a very strong resilience in the last crises and will continue to deliver solid growth. On our strongholds, we provide essential services infrastructure like we have leadership position and are in the top 3 in all our countries. We enjoy a balanced geographical footprint, 20% in France, 40% in Europe and 40% outside Europe, with more than $5 billion in the U.S. We have a well-balanced and resilient set of businesses, which are 85% macro immune and largely protected against inflation, thanks to tariff indexation model for 70% and strict pricing policy for the remaining 30%, thanks to our leadership positions. After describing our top line growth and our business models, let's talk now about how we create value and how we will allocate the capital. Regarding value creation, in the next 4 years, we target an EBITDA growth of around 5% per year, leading to at least EUR 8 billion in 2027. The growth will result from the combination of 3 main factors: revenue growth, especially from our growth boosters; continued efficiency; and synergies. Efficiency gain will remain at a high level of EUR 350 million per year. And I confirm that we will fully deliver the 500 million cumulated cost synergies as expected, but what are our main levers to deliver the efficiencies and synergies? Focusing on efficiency. As you know, we have a very successful track record. We delivered EUR 1.3 billion from 2020 to 2023, and we will continue and maintain our rhythm of EUR 350 million per year. We will focus on operational savings and in particular on digital gains and purchasing efficiency. Regarding synergies, we have moved very fast and have already delivered EUR 315 million in 2 years ahead of our initial plan. We have started by SG&A in 2022 and then moved quickly on operational synergies and purchasing using the size of the larger Veolia. We'll, of course, deliver the EUR 500 million by the end of 2025, EUR 100 million in 2024 and the same amount in 2025. To give you now a flavor of what we do on digital and AI, I am giving you some example of what are today the digital solution implemented in our operations. We already do a lot on digital at Veolia and our ambition is to double the efficiency gains coming from digital from 10% today to 20% by 2027. For our employees, we have developed a Veolia secured ChatGPT that is used today on a daily basis by more than 10,000 people. We have also developed our Hubgrade monitoring system to improve operational efficiency and remote management. It now uses AI to further enhance its capacity to generate savings. We are also developing cutting-edge solutions to better track leaks in our network, in our water networks using AI and the large amount of data we now collect on our underground assets and the sensors we have implemented on the networks. And we are also now using gen AI to gain efficiency on maintenance, and we are preparing new solution to further help our field operators to solve maintenance issues and speed up the repairs. To go further on operational efficiencies and synergy, let me take 2 examples. In Iberia, with the know-how we have developed and the optimization modules we have implemented, we can fully adapt in real time the wastewater treatment to the quality and the flow that we receive and thus reduce energy and chemical consumption. In terms of synergies, Australia is a very good example of strong delivery. We have systematically internalized waste volume; optimized our deeper footprint and the routing of our trucks, delivering fast operational synergies ahead of plan in Australia. Moving now to capital allocation. In the years to come, thanks to EBITDA growth and the many cash initiatives that we have launched, our strict financial discipline leads us to generate more free cash flow after growth CapEx. This free cash flow will be used for shareholder return, tuck-in acquisition; or deleveraging, as we have done in 2023, depending on project phasing and opportunities while keeping strict financial criteria on new investments, but how will we allocate CapEx in the years to come? We will continue our strict control of maintenance CapEx to around EUR 1.9 billion per year or 4% of the revenue. Growth CapEx that are linked to existing contracts to improve the assets that we operate amount to 1.5 billion a year. This CapEx amount is reduced by industrial disposal of around EUR 0.3 billion per year. As Estelle told you, the growth investment CapEx and M&A we are targeting in our strategic program is EUR 4 billion. It is net of financial disposal. How do we split between CapEx and M&A? With GreenUp, we are increasing our discretionary growth CapEx envelope up to EUR 0.7 billion per year, split actually between strongholds and growth boosters. CapEx will be complemented by tuck-ins, something in between EUR 0.5 billion to EUR 1 billion per year, as usual partially financed by asset arbitrage on nonstrategic assets, but what are our main criteria when we decide on the new investments? The first criteria is the alignment with the strategy and the priority given to the 3 boosters, where we put 50% of our investment while consolidating our strongholds. When I talked about financial discipline, this is the way we define it at Veolia: internal rate of return above WACC plus 4%; ROCE above WACC in year 3; and payback less than 7 years. Projects must also be compatible with our CO2 reduction plan and trajectory that I have highlighted at the start. After 2 years of being focused on Suez antitrust disposal, we will continuously review our portfolio to identify mature and commoditized activities on nonstrategic assets as we just did for SADE, our construction business or networks whose disposal is closed today. And the golden rule is to maintain a leverage ratio below 3x and a solid investment-grade rating. Let's take now some illustration of capital allocation with 2 recent flagship projects. The first one is a coal exit project in Poznan which is under construction, for commissioning in 2025. It will generate an IRR of more than 10% and, in the meantime, 400,000 tons of CO2 emission reduction. And it will fuel 2025 EBITDA. The second one is regulated water in the U.S. It is a business I like very much because it is fueling our net income. We have a secure return on equity of 10%. All our costs, including financial costs, are factored into the tariff negotiation and we enjoy a fast conversion from CapEx to net income. Talking further about net income. As you can see, between 2018 and 2023, we doubled the current net income, thanks notably to our financial discipline and the acceleration of the synergy delivery. That's been a strong marker of our financial performance. With GreenUp and its development ambition on our booster and strongholds, our efficiencies and our strict financial discipline. We will target a 10% CAGR for the current net income. It will be fueled, of course, by EBITDA growth, a stable financing rate and a tax rate around 27% over the period. Minority interest will grow in line with current net income. And dividend will grow in line with current EPS. Regarding our liquidity now and the debt repayment schedule. As you can see, we have a strong position. We have a EUR 6 billion net cash position at the end of 2023, covering all our 2024 repayments. Besides, 87% of our debt is at fixed rate and debt maturity is 7.4 years, with a smooth repayment schedule. Given the diversity of our business models, return on capital employed is one of the most important performance indicators for Veolia. This has also been a strong marker of our financial performance as well. Thanks to our financial discipline, at the end of 2023, we have already recovered our pre-COVID and pre-Suez acquisition level with an after-tax ROCE of 8.3% compared to a group WACC of 5.8%. We are targeting a ROCE after-tax above 9% in 2027. To sum up our commitments. As Estelle mentioned in the beginning, GreenUp is all about reconciliation between ecology and economy. When it comes to ecology, GreenUp means making Veolia a champion of decarbonization, with 18 million tons of carbon removed at our customer side, what we call Scope 4, and at the same time accelerating decarbonization at Veolia, with a new target of reducing our emission by 50% by 2032 and exiting coal in Europe by 2030; a champion of decontamination with 10 million tons of hazardous waste eliminated, all of which are pollutant harmful to health and ecosystems. A champion of savings and regenerating natural resources, starting with water, with 1.5 billion cubic meters less water withdrawn, thanks to our services, the equivalent of the consumption of the population of the Paris region. GreenUp will, of course, ensure profitable growth for the years to come. Revenue is expected to grow at a solid pace, excluding energy price impact. We target an EBITDA of at least EUR 8 billion in 2027. We will keep our leverage ratio below 3x. Current net income will grow at an average by around 10% per year. And finally, dividend will grow in line with current EPS. I have talked a lot about financial and some environmental indicators, but as you know, our performance goes well beyond those topics. How do we measure our performance for all stakeholders? We have set multifaceted performance at Veolia that includes financial KPIs, but also indicators for employees, for clients and for the planet. We have simplified the set of indicators from 19 to 15, and we have appointed a sponsor at the ExCo level for each one of them. For example, I am the CO2 sponsor in order to align the capital allocation with the CO2 trajectory, those 15 KPIs are included in the compensation scheme of 16,000 managers across the group to ensure their delivery year after year. This is what allows us to pilot the group and the greener project based on its purpose. This is a project that motivates and unifies 213,000 employees, who are really the engine of our success.

Thank you. Thank you very much, Claude Laruelle, for this brilliant demonstration. It's your turn to sit at the desk. And I'm going to ask Estelle Brachlianoff to give us the few words of conclusion. The floor is yours.

It is a fact that the market in which we are the undisputed champion is huge. And it grows a little faster every day, chasing after pressing environmental needs. In fact, the demand for solution is growing at an exponential rate as more and more public and private stakeholders realize that it costs more to do nothing than to transform. The cost of natural disasters alone over the last 2 years has reached $2 billion per month. Of course, there are many uncertainties, but Veolia has demonstrated its solidity and capabilities. We have overcome the volatility associated with COVID, the reversal of interest rate, inflation and the energy crisis. That is why Veolia will overcome events that will necessarily bring volatility to the macroeconomic environment in the future years. So in a sea of uncertainty, Veolia is therefore a sustainable long-term growth stock because our growth is indexed less to economic activity and more and more to ecological imperatives. This is why, with GreenUp, Veolia will be established as the missing link in ecological transformation. The only complete answer to the challenge is the only all-in-one solution for all private and public stakeholders across the globe and in each every geography. We have devoted the last few years to getting ready, assembling all the skills, the resources and assets that are essential to take the fight where it is required the most and where it is the most impactful and rewarding. This battle is now raging and that's why it's time to green up.

And that was the last words of presentation of Veolia's GreenUp's plan, so join us at the desk, Estelle. It's now time to open the Q&A session, so let me remind you how it works. For our guests here, you just have to raise your hand if you want to ask a question. And then a host or hostess will give you the mic. [Operator Instructions] And feel free to ask your questions in French or in English, and we will respond accordingly. So let's take our first question. Is there a question here in the room? Okay, if you need a little bit of time not to be too shy, I'm going to take the first question from the platform.

So there is a question coming from Deutsche Bank, from Olly Jeffery. In the plan out to 2027, do you assume synergies top out at EUR 500 million? Is it realistic to think you could do more than EUR 500 million given you are ahead of plan?

I guess I was smiling at the question because since the start of the synergies delivering, every quarter, we've delivered more and I was asked this precise question. So the commitment I make is that we will deliver on the EUR 500 million that we are committed to deliver. We are well ahead. That's true, so if we can do more, we will. But so far, my priority is to deliver on my promise.

I think we've got the answer. Is there a question here in the room? Not yet, okay, so I continue with the questions online. So from Philippe Ourpatian from ODDO. Your EBITDA CAGR, we'll say that, yes, to 2027 seems to be lower than the guidance for 2023 and seems to be cautious regarding your 2 last years' trends. Why a so cautious stance?

It's a little bit the same as the previous question, in a way. We're getting used to delivering good results, so I'm asked about what about the future. I think to be able to kind of guarantee that we'll deliver the figures, which were shown by Claude on stage, irrespective of the macro environment and what happens in the world in next few years, is quite an amazing commitment to make.

I think, too. Question here? No, okay, so next question, from Arthur Sitbon, maybe he's French, from Morgan Stanley. "Comparing Slide 63 to the previous CMD, it seems total annual net CapEx grows from EUR 3.5 billion to EUR 4.2 billion, but a very large part of the increase seems to be coming from maintenance and contractual CapEx. Does it mean that a lot of the increase in growth booster CapEx comes after 2027?" Do you need some time to find the right slide?

No, no, yes. I can detail the CapEx envelope. And if you sum up the numbers, EUR 1.9 billion on maintenance CapEx, EUR 1.5 billion on growth, minus EUR 0.3 billion on disposal before growth CapEx is around EUR 3 billion. On top of that, we are adding what I call growth discretionary CapEx for EUR 700 million, so the total is EUR 3.7 billion. EUR 3 million (sic) [ EUR 3 billion ] from the embark CapEx and the way to do our daily business with our customers or the maintenance of our assets; and EUR 0.7 billion, which was EUR 0.5 billion, so we are really accelerating the growth on discretionary CapEx, including decarbonization, including hazardous waste treatment facilities, so EUR 3.7 billion as a total, around EUR 3.7 billion.

Thank you for this very precise answer. No regret for the -- there is a hand raising just over there. The microphone is yours.

Jerome Poret from MUFG. Maybe a quick question on your water technology and your solution [Foreign Language] water technology and the former Suez water technology. Any -- could you tell us a bit more about your plans? I mean you have -- having 2 units, one of which is -- was a minority shareholder, any plans to combine that or to organize that differently?

I guess, yes, just to recap and first things first, we have only one unit, which is water technologies. And it happens that Anne Le Guennec in the first row, you can raise your hand is in-charge of this global unit, which combines, you're right, 2 previously entities, one Veolia historically, if you want, roughly EUR 1.5 billion; and the other one, roughly more EUR 2.5 billion, which used to be in Suez and now lies with Veolia. You've understood by everything we've said this morning that we are combining forces here already, technology-wise, in terms of new offers combining the 2. I could give you a lot of precise examples of technology here. I'm sure Anne can complement my answer, but for instance, the [indiscernible] one, just to -- I don't want to become too technical here, but more brands were more a Suez thing, now Veolia, but biology was more a Veolia thing. And when you put biology onto membranes, you add the livelihood of eating pollution, if you want, on a filtration membrane. It enhances the power of filtration like hell, which means that, in a way, without changing the concrete, you can enhance the performance of waste water treatment plant. That's a kind of perfect match where 1 plus 1 makes 3. And I'm talking here about offers. I'm not talking even about cost synergies, which of course we are doing. Just revenue on this example is extraordinary, but I don't know, Anne, if you have other examples. I'm sure you would have a lot to tell about.

Is there another question here in the room? Yes, the microphone is arriving.

[Interpreted] [ Cece Luqurs, Investere ]. Maybe I missed this in the documents, but when you bought Suez, in terms of EPS, you were expecting an increase of 40% between 2022 and 2024, if I remember correctly. So has that been confirmed?

[Foreign Language]

[Interpreted] Yes. You're exactly right, so if you calculate prior to the Suez buyout, we were talking about EUR 1.6 per share. And currently general consensus is EUR 2.2, and we're quite comfortable with that. And you have a difference of about 40%.

[Foreign Language]

[Interpreted] So 37%, to be precise, but we're around 40%.

[Foreign Language] Another question? Okay, so I go back to -- yes.

[Interpreted] So if I may, while you're checking the other questions. Going back to [ Mrs. Luqurs ] question. So Suez acquisition was a success in itself from many viewpoints. We had the opportunity to organize a complete session last year, which is why we didn't insist today, but basically, in financial terms, obviously the cost synergies are there and even ahead of the game. This is why I had the other questions just before in terms of synergies in revenue that we cannot measure, but which are there, the example I just gave with water technologies, but we have many more in different places and also the teams basically. I also wanted to talk about the teams before we have other questions.

[Interpreted] yes, Yes, for sure.

[Interpreted] Because basically the teams are together. And the commitment rate that I mentioned earlier, 89%, well, over the whole of the 213,000 employees of Veolia historical or more recently, there's no difference between the 2. And let me remind you that 89% is the answer to 3 questions: Do you feel good at Veolia? Would you recommend to your close relationship working for Veolia? And do you feel how you contribute to the ecological transformation in your daily business? And let me tell you that this is a strong sign, this is a strong basis for the group as a whole, just like what I mentioned earlier.

[Interpreted] Clearly, in this war of talents, it makes all the difference. Now here's a question from Goldman Sachs. Strategically, could the portfolio benefit from simplification where you exit out of underperforming geographies and rotate to assets where the business has more growth?

The answer is yes. And let me explain you how we do it. So asset rotation of portfolio is something we are doing and we will go on doing. As Claude mentioned, when we talk about investment, EUR 4 billion in the next plan, we talk about net from divestments. And so what is typically the type of -- part of our portfolio we are considering divesting? Typically, mature, so there is no value creation anymore. It's kind of behind us for 95% of it. Nonstrategic would be another one, or too small in a country to be able to carry weight and therefore to make the difference. And just want to give a concrete example for -- we've been -- we are doing that. It's fair to say that, for 2 years, we've been mainly focusing on divestment which were due by the antitrust combination of Suez and Veolia, but now we're moving on back, in a way, to the normal asset rotation of our portfolio. Translation with a real example, which is from today, one, we just closed today the divestment of SADE, which is a construction type of activity, pipe work mainly in France and not only, nonstrategic for us. We've said we want to exit construction, and that's one of the reason. Quite dilutive for our margin, roughly 5% EBITDA or a little bit less. We've just divested it and we will go on to have always a look at our portfolio in exactly the same way in the years to come.

Is there a question here in the room? Okay, so next question is from [ Union Investor, Thomas Dezer. ] The target for leverage gives Veolia optionalities. Where would you prefer to invest?

You're right. We are comfortable with our guidance not only for this year but for the years [indiscernible], which is to be below 3x EBITDA and we naturally deleverage ourselves every year. We generate free cash flow, so each time we have the choice, that's what Claude just explained earlier on, between investing M&A or CapEx, growth CapEx or M&A and deleveraging the group. And we have room for maneuver, so in a way, the criteria for how we would invest, in particular, in M&A, are twofold. One, it has to be in our key strategic, so typically the growth boosters. It has to create value. That's an obvious one, but the criteria were recalled by Claude earlier on, WACC plus 3% and value creation. So of course, we are opportunistic and strategic in a way, and with a very strong foundation of the type of return we expect from our M&A. With that in mind, that's why we have invested in, say for instance, the tuck-in acquisition in the U.S. in the autumn. Isn't it, Frédérique? And we'll probably go on with such tuck-in acquisition. It's easy plug-and-play, value creation almost instantly and in the -- one of the growth boosters.

Great. Another question in the room? Yes. Can you raise your hand a little bit higher? Yes.

[Interpreted] [ Danielle Niche, Value Verde, Green Values ]. At a time when CSR certifications are mushrooming, it feels like the Amazon forest, to tell you the truth, I would like to know which certification actually reward your long-term efforts? How would I put this -- and which certifications provide added TSR, total shareholder return because you've come such a long way over the past 20 years.

[Interpreted] Thank you for your compliments on the path we have already covered. So you're right. There's many different rating agencies. I will not give you names today. Or in any case, we could do it off, if you wish, but I won't mention name names just now. And in any case, what I can tell you is that we are ourselves the leader in a certain number of businesses. And so in a certain number of cases, I promote having new indicators to measure the reality of the efforts made in ecological transformation. Because as you understood, GreenUp is not about green but about greener, so it means taking CO2 here to do something there. It means looking at an industry that uses a lot of cubic water -- cubic meter of water to do something else. And as you understood, it's good for the planet. It's for our customers. It's necessary for Veolia and for our results. Obviously, this is why it's a virtual circle. So it's not only good for the planet, it's good for Veolia and the results. And so sometimes, we are missing some indicators. So the number one is Scope 4 that Claude mentioned earlier. So we measure -- so all the agencies you mentioned measure Scope 1 and 2. That is to say CO2 emissions from the various companies, but what is not measured yet, but -- given the traction I saw when I relaunched this last year -- in fact almost a year ago to this day. So it's making progress and quite a lot, in fact, so we would need to measure the reduction and in fact in terms of the emissions that were removed, that is to say before and after. This is what Scope 4 is all about, before and after. You have coal-fueled plants, for example. You replace coal with something else, fuel made from nonrecyclable waste. Well, this means minus 60%. And this is also what we have to measure and this is what Scope 4 is all about. I'm not saying we should replace emissions, but on top of that, you have to absolutely measure the efforts. And the greener dimension, this is absolutely key. So rather than just awarding prizes, I was going to say let's share or let's make sure that we are acknowledged for these efforts and these trajectories because this is what means that there will be more impact and at the end of the day, we will have less global warming.

[Interpreted] Thank you for that answer. Anyone else, anyone has a question they want to ask in the audience? All right, let's move on to an online question from Alexandre, Bank of America. We have an event about energy, one about water tech. It feels like waste is a bit left out. Despite a lot more about circularity this year and a big push from recycling association to have more done in Europe, what could get you more excited about the bite of the bees?

Interesting. First, about this deep dive and then about waste. So deep dive, we've tried to summarize the strategy of Veolia for the next 4 years today in a reasonable time, but we have more to say and to share, hence those deep dives. So one in energy in London a few weeks ago. There will be one on the 18th of April in New York and Houston in the U.S., where you will see -- I don't want to do too much of a teasing, but you will see water and waste, in that case hazardous waste, hence the Houston part of my invitation. And we will have one about water tech in the fall. So to take a little bit of time -- take a little bit more time and I invite you really to join them. Like they are really, hopefully, interesting. And you can see live and we touch what we're talking about. In terms of waste, we still do love, I do love waste. But waste is composed of 2 bits. The solid waste, which is a stronghold, we like it. It won't grow as fast as the booster, which is hazardous waste, but in a way, we need both. So I don't want to pick into the portfolio because, as I said, the combination is key. And waste, as in solid waste, so non-hazardous waste, is the way we extract bioenergy. So in a way, when I talk about bioenergy, I talk about waste. And I can multiply the example like that. So yes, we still have a good ambition on waste and a reinforced one on the development of hazardous waste.

And it's really part of this circularity. [Foreign Language] Another question in the room? Okay. So [ Lional Urkta, ] new technologies allow for the detection of pollutants in water. Some U.S. water companies face litigation by inhabitants because of past exposure to PFAS. Do you foresee any litigation risk for Veolia? Who will pay for the cost of upgrading filtering? By how much the price of water will increase? So you've got few different questions in one. Do you want me to repeat?

No, no. It's okay. I heard it well and that's quite clear. There are new pollutants such as PFAS, which we didn't even measured a few years ago. And the legislation is not even in place in many places. The U.S. has been quite in advance, as in they've enhanced progressively and started with the local level at state level rather than national and federal to, say, you know what, on those specific PFAS because you have everything into the mix, but on those specific PFAS, you will need to upgrade. And it needs -- it goes with investments and those investments will be paid by water tariff increase. So I won't tell you for how much increase because it will depend on local situation. You have places where you barely have not to do anything to upgrade them and places where it's much more a bar to reach, so it will be a very diverse case. And in a way, it's not by chance. Water is very local in some ways. It doesn't transport super well. It's more on the -- the good scale is that of a basin or how do to say...

Yes, locally...

The flow. It goes as a flow, so it's very local. And as I said, so it's both a way to upgrade. And we have the ability and the technology and we are even innovating to be even more efficient to treat those type of new pollutants. And here with all the water technologies has a lot of demand of those services for the reason I just highlighted. And then once you've extracted them, you have to destroy them. And it's in the hazardous waste business, which we are destroying them, so again another example of combination here.

Okay, question here in the room? Somebody wants a mic? No, so let me see the next question. So [Foreign Language]. [Interpreted] A question in French. Much of the growth expected and ROCE increased is in the U.S., but Trump may get elected. Is that bad news for Veolia?

[Interpreted] The question that I'm often asked. Well, I was going to say, well, talking as a citizen or as a CEO, but I will answer as a CEO and the Head of Veolia. So Veolia's businesses in the U.S., whatever, what happens in November, have a great future. Why? Because, in fact, what drives the demand for our services in the U.S., just like in Europe or everywhere else, is not national regulations. In fact, in the States, it's often at state level, but it's much more the expectation from the population. So for example -- well, just an example, before, with health issues, so there is an expectation regarding sovereignty. In fact, we mentioned one of the main drivers for our growth in the U.S. is reshoring. And so everything as they said whether Trump or somebody else, it will be the citizens that will push for it, so we switched from the market that was based on offer to demand, not only from our municipal or industrial customers, but the greater public. And this is the real shift that is operating on Veolia's businesses and this is how we can green up indeed.

[Interpreted] Indeed. So you're relying on those social and societal trends. Any questions? In the middle of the room.

[Interpreted] I just had a question about what you were talking about earlier, eco-designed services. Is that a major part of turnover? And what's your business model behind that. Or otherwise, where is it going to be added to your annual books?

[Interpreted] So it is an entity that in fact comes from what we found in the -- in Suez portfolio called [indiscernible]. And it operates on the whole of Northern Europe or even wider Europe but mainly Northern Europe. And it's mainly a business that is -- well, it's not significant in terms of revenue, if you look at the figures, or EBITDA, but very significant in terms of the trust given from industrial players. We are talking about -- probably I can't mention names, but we're talking about major players on the market. Let's say that way. And they come to see us so that we help them in reducing overall packaging or avoiding packaging that is impossible to recycle; for example, the multi layers, layer of plastic, bit of aluminum, cardboard and so on and so forth. So it's great to use for food, but it's a nightmare to recycle, almost impossible. So the most virtuous of them come to see us, saying, "Well, how can you help me to design right from the beginning, the great -- the best packaging to be recycled?" So with these industrial players, this activity is not hugely significant, but it's often contact points to ask for other services that are significant such as recycling plastic, starting with, for example, recycling PET, so [ one of our ] tools and so on. So in our relationship with these major customers, I believe that it makes sense. It's meaningful for us. And obviously we can also have an impact as well on solid waste, but not significant.

Another question in the room? [Interpreted] We have a question from Davide Candela, Intesa Sanpaolo. Will the growth in renewables, bioenergy and flexibility capacity by 2030 increase the sensitivity of Veolia to energy prices? Or these will generally remain a pass-through to clients.

No, it won't increase our dependence on commodity prices. We will still be passed through. So that's the short answer, so no risk for our margin. Of course, it is a variation on our revenue, but what counts for us is obviously the margin, EBITDA, EBIT and net result. So for Veolia, energy is a pass-through component to us. So typically, bioenergy, if I deep dive into that, we can produce from -- it's kind of a bio product, a lot of times, from or waste or our water activities. When we produce biogas from a wastewater treatment plant, we usually share with the municipal customer. Plus we hedge the gas we sell when we sell it to the market, so altogether it's really -- we are really, really protected. So energy activity as Veolia, the fact that it is local energy -- and again, very protected against commodity price means you shouldn't see any ups or down in the margin associated with the developing of this activity, good example being in '23, '24, we've presented with Claude this morning the results of '23, which are super good. The result of '24 will be as well. I'm very confident. And actually we don't see the margin of the Energy business going down in '24, although the price are going down, so it's in a way a demonstration from '23, '24 in real life.

[ Very reassuring. ] Another question in the room, so the next question is from Juan Rodriguez, Kepler. It has been signaled at a 10% growth of net income, but dividend payment growth in line with EPS. Can we assume an EPS growth in line with net income?

It will be very close because, as you know, EPS, we have a very small dilution with an employee share plan. It's something around 1% a year, so it's not very significant. So when you will make the comparison between EPS and current net income, it will be very close. So what we assume will be in the same range of EPS growth. Then we'll go with the dividend growth, which is a strong marker of what we will do in the next plan, in the same range, to answer the question of Juan.

And you can have a look at our track record, which has -- to be increasing the dividend exactly or roughly exactly at the same pace in the last few years. And the reason why we don't guide on dividend is because maybe I'm a little bit a purist, but it is for the shareholder to decide the distribution of dividend at the AGM every year. So I think it's really for them to agree on our trajectory of dividend every year. So we commit on the net result and then distribution of dividend is for the AGM every year to be decided.

Somebody wants to ask a question here, yes. The mic.

[Interpreted] Sorry. It's me again. I just wanted to ask a follow-up question because of some of the figures we're giving about balance sheet, can you have any figures about buyout?

[Interpreted] So we have flexibility and we can make choices. That's why I said that to priority decisions or deleveraging or growth. Growth in CapEx or growth in terms of M&A. It is true that we give the priority to M&A because we're going to prioritize the results for this year, but also the years to come. And as we said, Veolia is about growing for a very long time, and so a one-off strategy is not enough. We really want to focus on this trajectory for the long term, something that we do prioritize.

Next question is from Deutsche Bank, Olly Jeffery. Can you provide an EBITDA bridge from 2023 to 2027? For instance, how much organic, inorganic, efficiency, synergy, et cetera.

We provided it. Isn't it? On Page 58, right, Claude?

So if you think about how we will grow, we grow the EBITDA, you have to keep first about the synergies. Synergies, we will produce EUR 200 million. That's the first bit. In terms of efficiency, we are targeting EUR 350 million. The average that we'll retain is around -- so it's EUR 350 million multiplied by 4. You get to EUR 1.4 billion. If you take 40% of retention, you get to EUR 600 million. And so the rest will be a combination of our growth. So EUR 600 million plus EUR 200 million, so we are at 6.5, 8.3. So EUR 700 million will be a combination of the 2. So it will be a combination of what I have described earlier, which is the new facility that we are -- that were -- are under construction. That will be the decarbonization also of our plan because it's generating significant earnings because of the IRR, which is above 10%. So that will be the combination of the 2 bits. So the remaining, it's more than EUR 700 million will come from the growth of the group commercial and M&A.

Which all in all, it means half of the growth of EBITDA, roughly, comes from synergies, cost cutting; and the other half, from top line growth, roughly. It's half-half.

[Interpreted] Other questions in the audience? A question in French. How do you intend to double efficiency gains, thanks to digital technology, by 2027? Do you intend to extend your network of technology partners? And what is the share of investment?

[Interpreted] So we are going to double our efficiency plan. And we're going to double the share of digital. And gen AI is the magical recipe here, generative AI. And so I'm not sure we're going to share all the proof of concepts that are we going to launch? No, that's not what we want to do because I wouldn't want to share that with the competition, but we have all a lot of ideas. And there are other things that we are currently testing. Some things will bear fruits and some things will be sped up, but some things won't have a lot of impacts, so we're going to forget about them, but I'm sure that we have here a lot of solutions to do much more and much faster, quite promising.

[Interpreted] Other questions? The next question is from Morgan Stanley, Arthur Sitbon. Your 2027 net income target assumes a 27% tax rate. This is similar to the tax rate paid in 2022, in the year of Suez integration, which had a high tax rate and from which Veolia obtained additional U.S. profits. It is conservative or is there any driver expected to impact taxes negatively?

Okay. So for taxes, we have 2 strong pockets of tax efficiencies, the one in the U.S. and the one in France. The one in U.S. is in order of magnitude of $300 million that we can use but until 2026 because it has been an agreement with the tax authority in the U.S. It started in 2006. It's for 20 years, so it will end by 2026. And because we have combined our U.S. regulated Water, which generates a very nice net income, as I said, we are more efficient than the Suez one because of combining Veolia North America with the former Suez North America. On the other hand, we have France, a little bit more than EUR 200 million of tax that we can use, a tax credit that we can use, but there is no limitation in time. But it's different. We get tax credit of half of the tax we have to pay. So we have no limitation. So if you combine the 2. The tax rate today, it's 26.5%. 26.5%, that was tax rate of Veolia in 2023, much lower than what Suez was. At the time, it was in a 30%, 35% range. And when we do the projection for the years to come, it will be around 27%. Some years, it can be closer to 25%, but in 2027, we'll not have any more tax credit from the U.S. So the 27% is a good average for the tax rate for the group. And if I may, on Arthur Sitbon's first question when he was comparing last year and this year. Last year, we put numbers for CapEx but at net CapEx, so that's the reason why he was calculating maybe a little bit differently. And this year, we explain the gross CapEx, the whole CapEx and then we deducted the disposal, so there is a slight difference for Arthur between what we have presented this year and what we presented in the previous CMD, but the total is same. Total is in the EUR 3.7 billion range. It was a little bit same, EUR 3.5 billion, so no big difference in CapEx. And this is what we have spent in 2023. What we have just published is EUR 3.7 billion of CapEx. And on top of that, we are adding M&A, which is a combination of acquisition and some disposal, with what Estelle said about what we do on nonstrategic assets.

[Interpreted] Thank you. Thank you very much, Claude. Time flies when you're having fun. I have a question of my own, getting back to purist strategy. Let's transcend figures and finance. The GreenUp plan is extremely proactive, extremely ambitious, isn't there a chance -- an existential risk that you've identified?

[Interpreted] Not really. Because when I'm asked about the risks, generally people think about macroeconomics. We've presented our results this morning. We had amazing results in 2023. We expect amazing results in 2024. And for example, we had flat waste volumes since 2022, September 2022, to be precise. So we were not really dependent on this and we've shown this, so I think we can think a lot of things, but I'm not thinking of any existential risk. Inflation, so our contracts were dependent on inflation, but because we are in top 3, we have pricing power over our competitors. So what could the risks be? Politics, maybe; elections in Europe, elections in the U.S. And you can see that the demand from our service is coming from the society. It's about sovereignty, and I'm not sure it's going to end. I don't see how it would stop tomorrow. And to the contrary, it increases. So for the list, I think that the only risk would be the following, for example, if we were too complacent with ourselves, but at Veolia we never give up. And we really want to work and we are ambitious, and we've shown that with our efficiency plan. So that would be the only risk, but it's not going to happen, never.

[Foreign Language] [Interpreted] Very good. So this event is already coming to an end. The replay will be shortly available. We wish you all a very good day. [Portions of this transcript that are marked [Interpreted] were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]