Viatris Inc. (VTRS) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary
January 10, 2024
Earnings Call Speaker Segments
Christopher Schott
analystGood morning, everybody. I'm Chris Schott at JPMorgan, and it's my pleasure to be hosting a fireside chat today with Viatris. From the company, we're going to have a quick presentation from CEO, Scott Smith, and then we're going to open up to a Q&A session with the broader management team. So with that, a happy new year, everybody. And Scott, thanks for joining us.
Scott Smith
executiveThank you, Chris. And I'm just going to make a couple of short remarks here in a couple of quick slides. And the bulk of the presentation is going to be Q&A. I just want to show a forward-looking statement. Obviously, we're going to make some forward-looking statements during the course of this presentation. And then -- so just good morning to everybody here and everybody who's joining via the webcast. 2013 was an outstanding year at Viatris. We integrated and simplified the company. We stabilized the base business and have seen 2 consecutive quarters of revenue growth, organic revenue growth. We've delivered on our pipeline, and we executed on our capital allocation framework, maintaining our investment-grade rating and returning capital via quarterly dividends and share buybacks. And with the completion of our announced divestitures, we will have delivered all our Phase 1 commitments. The resulting company, as we sit here today, is a large global diversified company with a broad product mix and broad geographic reach across the globe and an ability to generate solid and sustainable cash flows. Since the completion of the merger 3 years ago, we have generated $7.2 billion in free cash flow. We paid down $6.6 billion in debt and returned $1.8 billion in capital to shareholders. Importantly, in 2023, we supplied medicines to approximately 1 billion patients worldwide. And just to comment on that, it's just a remarkable figure. I think for me, it really is -- strikes me and what an opportunity for me and the 37,000 employees of Viatris to affect human health care as we move into 2024 and beyond. Now moving into Phase 2 of our strategic plan. We're very well positioned to unlock shareholder value. As I mentioned before, we've simplified and stabilized our base business and were moved to organic revenue growth. We plan to further improve on our target leverage ratio, and we have in line of sight our gross leverage target. Our plan will return approximately 50% of our free cash flow to shareholders through quarterly dividends and share buybacks. And with the other 50%, we plan on investing in assets and businesses that will drive future revenue growth. I believe this combination will position us to be a strong adjusted earnings per share growth story in the future. In terms of business development activity, we plan to engage in all manners of developing the portfolio, importantly, licensing, strategic arrangements, partnerships and also M&A. Focusing on the innovative products. We are going to focus our business development activities on innovative products with durable and predictable revenue streams. There's 4 main areas we see for investment as we move forward relative to our business development activities. We'll continue to invest in organic growth that fuels our base business. We will invest regionally on country-specific opportunities to take advantage of our strong global operations. We'll continue to invest to develop the 3 core areas that we have previously identified, ophthalmology, dermatology and GI, but we're also going to be opportunistic in seeking out assets to fit our company and can help us significantly grow revenue in the future. So that's just a little opening feel for the company in a few words, and I'll turn it over to Chris for Q&A for the 3 of us.
Christopher Schott
analystGreat. I guess, the first question for me, Scott, would be you've got the divestitures now behind you. You've had a bit more time under your belt as CEO. So what are you most focused on for Viatris as we think about 2024 and as we think about even the next few years? And I guess maybe just similar with that, what do you see as the biggest opportunities for the company going forward?
Scott Smith
executiveSo I wouldn't say that we have the divestitures behind us. They're announced. We need to work through that and close them and they'll continue to close as we get through to sort of the end of the first half this year. Once we get those divestitures, we'll be focusing on paying down our debt to get to that target ratio. And after that, we're going to execute our strategic plan, right, and our capital allocation plan. Approximately over the next 3 to 5 years, 50% of that free cash flow, which, at a minimum, should be at the $2.3 billion range, 50% return to shareholders through share buybacks which we're going to try and be increasingly aggressive around as we move in '24 and '25, the dividend, of course, and then for business development. And as I mentioned, I see business development as far more than just binary M&A. I think licensing, partnering, strategic arrangements, research agreements and things like that are very, very important to our future. So I see a fulsome approach to business development and building the portfolio long term. And I think for me, the base of the company is so strong, we've integrated, we've streamlined. We're now moving, and we've seen in the last couple of quarters real organic revenue growth. And that solid base of the business allows us to do the other things, but we're going to execute our capital allocation plan as laid out, and we're going to build the company and the future revenue streams of the company through business development.
Christopher Schott
analystGreat. On that 50% business development, 50% capital return algorithm, I guess, one of the questions we get is, should we think about that as a consistent number year-to-year? Or should we think about that as kind of an average over, let's say, a 3- or 5-year period of time?
Scott Smith
executiveYes, I think it will average out over a 3- to 5-year period of time. Any one year we expect to do both, right? We expect to be returning to shareholders and we expect to be doing some business development. Whether that's 50-50 in any specific year, it's hard to say. It depends on the environment. We want to be opportunistic in pursuing assets when they're available and at the right time. And we want to be aggressive in buying back shares at times that are advantageous to us. So you don't want to be too prescript to do that. You need to be fluid to be able to take advantage of the business conditions ahead of you. But certainly, over the next 3 to 5 years, I'd expect sort of half and half as we've laid out.
Christopher Schott
analystGreat. I guess, the question I get a lot, and I just think about it, your stock price is fairly -- it's an expensive multiple. Why not focus a lot of the cash on repo, just given -- it seems like you're talking about a base business that's stable, you've got good cash flows. Like why not just return that capital? And the question is like how do you think about like returns on just your own stock versus some of these external deals?
Scott Smith
executiveDuring the course of 2023, we did purchase significant stock back, $50 million worth of shares. I think we want to be more aggressive in share buybacks as we get in '24 and '25, given the cash flow that we see, given the fact that we see getting to the appropriate leverage ratio. And so I think we're going to be more aggressive doing that for sure.
Christopher Schott
analystExcellent. In terms of areas for business development, I think you've mentioned ophthalmology, dermatology, GI as kind of the big 3. Where of those 3 do you see the most opportunity for Viatris?
Scott Smith
executiveSo that's hard for me to answer directly, right? There's different types of opportunities in those 3 buckets. I wouldn't say that one has way more opportunities than the other. I think part of the reason that we were initially focused on those 3 areas is we saw a lot of opportunity in each of the 3 areas. Again, there tends to be different types. It evolves over time, right? Companies become more viable in terms of business development or transaction over time unless. So it's a very dynamic situation, but we see all 3 of those therapeutic areas, I think, being very viable in terms of our ability to partner, to license, to acquire assets in them.
Christopher Schott
analystAnd again, in your time as CEO, is there any interest in looking at assets outside of those verticals and expanding the lens a little bit?
Scott Smith
executiveAbsolutely, right? I think we've identified 3 areas that we thought fit us very well. I think we want to be a little bit agnostic. The core principle being here, can we find assets with significant revenue growth that we can leverage the space that we build globally as a company and really accelerate and reflect revenue in a way better than the possessing company could, right? So certainly, I think we're not just going to look in those areas. We're going to look for impactful assets. There are -- when I take a look at the company and what the company is, I think there are some areas which are a little too far afield. I don't see any real benefit. I don't see us moving into cellular immunotherapy, for example, certainly even though given my background, I've got significant oncology background, I don't see a lot of oncology assets coming in. But certainly, going into places like neurology or immunology, places, again, that I have significant development, commercial experience, if the right assets are there, would definitely be open for us.
Christopher Schott
analystOkay. Great. And as I think about geographies, is there a bias of U.S. versus ex U.S.? Or anything you'd comment on that front?
Scott Smith
executiveSo I would say no bias. There are 4 kind of opportunities that you see out there from a geographic perspective. You see some very country-specific opportunities, right? There's a product available for Japan and Japan only. We want to do some of that as well. We've got some very strong operating units all around the globe, and we may want to do some of that type of business development, shore up some of the individual countries. You see sort of ex U.S. deals, right? Companies that have -- and I know the story very well from my history in biotech. I think you see companies that can have line of sight on being able to develop, get a registration and commercialize in the U.S., but don't really understand or have the resources to be able to do it outside of the U.S. So certainly, there are ex U.S. assets that we would pursue as well. We've got strong infrastructure from an ex U.S. perspective. About 75% of our revenues are outside of the United States. So those are assets that I think we'd be very, very interested in to leverage the strong international base that we have 165 countries we're operating in. We've got 4,400 products. I mean, it's a big, diverse company. You also see companies that have acquired the rights to a product for the U.S. only. So you see some U.S.-only opportunities out there in the biotech world of people who have licensed something from Europe or somewhere else. So there's those opportunities. We'd be interested in those. And then, of course, sort of the gold standard. The best possible outcome are global opportunities, right, that you see worldwide. And so we'd be interested in any or all of those given sort of the diversity, the strength of the company. And similar to therapeutic areas. I think we want to be a little bit agnostic to that, open our minds to doing any of it. It's where can we find impactful assets that can help drive revenue growth that sort of we can leverage the strong organization that we have.
Christopher Schott
analystYes. I searched through the comments, you talked about partnerships, maybe less about augmenting just the binary M&A. So I think that's one of the -- when we think about capital deployment, historically, we thought about Viatris buying assets that's just outright. Just how much of an opportunity is there? And how big of a piece of your BD strategy is some things you just mentioned of finding somebody has got U.S. rights that maybe can't commercialize globally, things like that?
Scott Smith
executiveSo in my personal history with Celgene, with BioAtla, with other biotech companies. And before that, I don't know the number of deals I've been involved with either centrally or peripherally, maybe 100. I would say 90% of those would be partnerships, licenses, other things. 5% would be M&A and 5% will be something else. And as I've made my way around this conference and looked at other companies that are highly, highly successful, including a meeting I was at and saw you the other day, I think that's a really, really viable strategy, right? I mean the combination of investing in your own organic programs, which we need to do, finding partnerships and sprinkling in occasionally some M&A, disciplined M&A, I think, is the way to build the portfolio. But I think, if at the end of 5 years, you look at the business development that we've done, I think the majority of it would be licensing, partnership, that sort of thing.
Christopher Schott
analystAnd can I ask just a follow-up on that? In terms of how much of that work is, is this something Viatris has been working on for a long period of time? Or is this a newer piece of the strategy, I think the kind of broader partnership lens, I guess?
Scott Smith
executiveSo I'm just going to speak to my experience in the almost year that I've been CEO and you come into an organization like this, it's a big complex organization. I wanted to learn it. I wanted to understand the geography, I wanted to understand the people, the business dynamic. So I spent some time doing that. We wanted to sort of get line of sight on are we going to be able to do these divestitures? And are we going to get sort of -- which the divestitures went, by the way, just as an aside, I think very, very well. We were very pleased with the outcome. We got what we were expecting for these assets, which are very well-performing assets. But we want to have line of sight of are these going to get done and when are they going to get done? And when do we get the proceeds so that we can get to our leverage ratio that we -- our target leverage ratio and then really move into BD. So I would say it became apparent to me talking with these 2 extensively and understanding things, it became apparent to me last summer that we were going to be able to do all those things that these assets we're going to transact out of the company, that we were going to be able to do at the valuations that we were looking at, and they would happen during the course of '23. So at that point, I think we became more aggressive in looking at opportunities. I will say, though, the vast majority of the business development activity that's coming in is inbound to me based on my past at Celgene, my past in biotech and other things. Certainly, there are -- and it's been a little bit of a capital-starved world in the biotech world. So there's been very significant outreach coming to me and based on the strength of the company that we built and transparency that we have right now around wanting to license and partner and do real business development and develop the portfolio.
Christopher Schott
analystGreat. Great. Maybe pivoting a little bit 2024, I know you're not going to give guidance today, but just biggest swing factors we should keep in mind for this year. There's obviously a piece of EBITDA coming out associated with the divestitures, but just other factors we should be keeping in mind for the year?
Scott Smith
executiveSo I think the base of this, from my perspective and maybe Rajiv and Sanjeev can comment as well, very solid year in '23, right? Obviously, we -- it's a diverse company. I don't know exactly where we finalized and landed in '23. That work is still being done. 4,400 products, 165 countries, right? But -- so what is clear to me was a very strong year. We moved to organic revenue growth. We would expect that to continue in '24. If you're looking to figure out the EBITDA and other things by taking a look at what happened in '23 and removing some of the things that we've divested, I think you're sort of roughly getting to that point. And I don't know if you want to be more specific and comment on that.
Sanjeev Narula
executiveSo Chris, let me -- so Scott talked about the swing factor. So obviously, solid base business that will continue. So then you have, obviously, the new product launches that we've kind of provided a range of like 450 to 550. And I'm very excited about next year, particularly in the U.S. We should expect some kind of organic growth on an adjusted basis on that. So I think that will continue. I think the most important part that we're going to kind of talk about it is how do we provide guidance to that so people understand that because of the divested that you talked about. So the way we are thinking about right now is we'll provide guidance on an all-in basis so people can do a comparison to '23. So you kind of have that because all these businesses are, by and large, still with us because they will be sold during the year [ we'll lose ]. We'll also provide some kind of framework and guidance on a post-divestiture basis, what did the business look like, right? It's going to be choppy year because as you divest, the revenues will go away. And we will provide transparency like it in the case of biosimilar when that is happening and what is the impact on revenue and EBITDA and free cash flow. So I think we'll provide that so people can see what's the base business, what happens with the divestitures, both on the top line and the EBITDA and what happens after that, so people can look at that. I think the other thing that is important from -- for a purpose of understanding as to what Scott talked about it because we will be aggressively buying back shares, we will also provide guidance on the adjusted EPS basis for next year onwards.
Christopher Schott
analystSo it sounds like you raised a framework that kind of works with that. And I guess on that, maybe that before we think about the top line and EBITDA impact from the divestitures, there a reason to think that there would be big deviations in terms of performance relative to what we're seeing in '23? Or is '23 a good proxy for the business?
Sanjeev Narula
executiveYou should not. It's very steady from what we've been talking about -- that range, yes.
Rajiv Malik
executiveIt Should be doing on what we've been talking.
Sanjeev Narula
executiveIt should be in the range.
Scott Smith
executiveOkay. I think it's important as well to remember that we have a solid base of business. We've got revenue growth in the 1% to 2% that we can see in the future. We're putting $400 million to $600 million in new products in every year. And so it's a very strong, solid -- fundamentally solid company at this point in time.
Christopher Schott
analystGreat. And when I look beyond 2024. I think 1 of the question -- things I'm struggling with is how to you think about the margin progression of the business. So can you just elaborate on, is there leverage in the P&L in this business over time? And what is it going to take to see that leverage play through?
Sanjeev Narula
executiveYes. So Chris, starting with gross margins. You've seen like we have a very strong gross margin performance. You saw that 3 quarters this year and then last couple of years, very strong gross margin. And that's just obviously a function of product mix that we have and obviously, the new product launches. So I expect the gross margin to be stable as we go forward as again the gross margin coming from new products tend to be higher than the company average. The other thing that is going to help us a little bit is the gross margin from the divested business is a little bit less than the company average. That's probably going to help. As we go forward, we obviously continue to invest in our business, like we did that in this year, we'll continue with the DTC that we have and the R&D pipeline that we expect to go there in the next years. So I expect our EBITDA to be stable, Chris, from that perspective. But the important thing to keep in mind, and again, because the focuses of the company in Phase 2 is going to be on share buyback. We expect over a period of time to be showing growth in adjusted EPS basis.
Christopher Schott
analystThe EPS piece starts to lever. Excellent.
Scott Smith
executiveAnd so just a quick comment. I think longer term, looking at margins, right, the businesses that we're looking to invest in and bringing in, license a partner, generally, specialists, patent-protected, longer, more predictable revenue streams, innovative products with a different margin profile than the business currently so that could provide some tailwind to where we're going from a margin perspective as well.
Christopher Schott
analystGreat. Maybe jumping into the business units. Maybe first starting on China. Would just love to get your sense of just kind of more broadly, how do you see the China business kind of evolving over the next few years for Viatris?
Rajiv Malik
executiveChris, China has been -- for us, has been performing very well, better than our expectations. We have managed the policy framework, the tightening of the VPP. 95% business has already gone through the VPP. URP is expanding. But at the same time, this is all on the reimbursement bucket is the hospitals. And we have been able to successfully and continue to move the business to the retail as well as the private hospitals. So we see this year, of course, business did pretty well, and we see test business continue to perform well while we're bringing the new products. So for us, this anticorruption campaign live through that, we have not seen much impact on that. We seem very confident about continue to perform the way we have performed in the last 3 years on China.
Christopher Schott
analystOkay. So in terms of growth profile going forward, this is -- do you view this as a growth business for the company? Is that fair assessment?
Rajiv Malik
executiveAs we bring in the pipeline and we add on to this product, definitely, we are looking into this market becoming one of the growth markets for our business.
Scott Smith
executiveAnd I know there's a lot of worry about business in China and some of the macroeconomic and policy issues that are going on in China. And delivering health care in China is -- from a government perspective, it was very complex, right? It's a massive undertaking. And I think for us, if we are really going to be a diverse global company with that kind of scale and that kind of reach, China needs to be a very important part of our strategy going forward. We don't want to run away from it. We want to understand the changes. We want to make sure that we operate in the environment in the best way possible. But we see China being a very important part of our strategy globally going forward.
Christopher Schott
analystGreat. Just pivoting a little bit, the JANZ region is 1 where, I think, we've been seeing some declines in the business. And maybe similar kind of commentary, like how do we think of what's been happening in that part of the portfolio? And what's the way to think about that going forward?
Rajiv Malik
executiveAnd that's only business in -- our only geography in our business, which because of the regulated reasons, regulatory reasons, we have that decline 4%, 5% decline, which we have taken into the competition and we calculate, okay, this business space is set up for 2%, 3% growth, yes. But it's a little bit -- we are trying to work feverishly to add more products in that pipeline to offset that erosion.
Christopher Schott
analystOkay. So that -- for that business to stabilize over time, it's more about new products coming in? Is that the way -- and what's the time line to think about that? Is that...
Rajiv Malik
executiveI think that will be around, I would say, '26 -- '25 to '26.
Scott Smith
executiveAnd Japan is a very, very important part of our future as well. And I think we've got a strong company there, a strong operating company. We need assets. It's a difficult market in a lot of ways and the way that they've structured price declines and things is difficult. So we need to refresh the portfolio in Japan. That's 1 of the things that I'm focusing on and concentrating on is not only refreshing the portfolio through some of the global programs, internal and external, but also maybe some Japan-specific opportunities as well.
Christopher Schott
analystOkay. Great. Eye care, I know there was some activity here over the last few years. Just what are you most excited about when you think about the broader eye care portfolio at the company today?
Scott Smith
executiveSo maybe I can comment, and then Rajiv is much closer to the eye care business on a day-to-day basis than I am. But we're very happy with that acquisition. We're excited to have an eye care business. The eye care -- we've launched Tyrvaya and you have it in the marketplace today. I think we have 6, 7, 8 other products in the pipeline that hopefully will come to market in the next few years. We see this as a very viable, strong business for us that can move to a $1 billion business over time. We think it's a good place to play. And we've -- again, we've got 1 product out there, but we've got 6, 7, 8 products in the pipeline that hopefully the majority of those will hit the market.
Rajiv Malik
executiveYes. Chris, it was never 1 product acquisition for the platform, which we're buying to build for the future. And the pipeline continues to progress. In fact, we will be launching our second product the [indiscernible], which is the reversal of [indiscernible] in the next few months. So -- and also, there are 3 products which are entering to the second study on the Phase III. Everything is going pretty well. And the DTC, which we just restart because this segment is very DTC segment or dry eye segment and we just based on we're seeing some very positive trends in the last quarter. So we are -- as we go along, we are very confident that, yes, this business will be, like I said, deliver on the $1 billion commitment which we made.
Christopher Schott
analystJust on to you, Rajiv. Expand a little bit on that just in terms of has the asset performed in line with your expectations so far? Or has there been any surprises with it?
Rajiv Malik
executiveMore or less, yes. There was -- because at a quarter-to-quarter, at a very early stage, it's very difficult to read through because we were moving from the -- trying to stabilize gross to net, remove the bridge, which was there at early stage. So all that has been, more or less, expected to deliver as per our expectations.
Scott Smith
executiveAnd just to comment on that. It's -- I think people forget sometimes, it's very early days, right? That deal was closed around this time 1 year ago and then you close the deal, you've got to do integration and not that there was tremendous integration to a small company, but understanding it, bringing it into the Viatris tent. And we just initiated the DTC in October. So we're going to be anxious to see if that's -- what that's doing. It's too early for me to give you a sense of what the effect of that DTC has been. Maybe by the time we get to the fourth quarter, call in February, we'll have a better look at it. It's for DTC, from my experience and I initiated the Otzela DTC program, which I think everyone in this room has probably seen millions of Otzela adds. So I've been deeply involved with it. But my experience with it is there's usually a 2-, 3-, 4-month lag so you see real demand uptick, right, and people need to be driven into the physician's office. The physician needs to write the product. There's reimbursement considerations. And so there's usually a little bit of a lag. We started in October. I would say by the time we get to the Q4 call, we'll have better visibility on how effective this DTC has been, but we're very hopeful.
Christopher Schott
analystOkay. So it's one to watch for this year. And then just a bigger picture. Just any learnings from that -- the Oyster transaction that we would think about, whether it's future deals in ophthalmology or just in some of your other core areas that you're looking to build on?
Scott Smith
executiveSo every -- from my experience, every transaction is different. It comes with different challenges, different good things, different bad things, different positives, different negatives. I think that's a good sort of framework for us if you take a look at what we did in the eye care. We bought a company in Oyster that had a commercialized asset, had a commercial group, a small commercial group focused on the U.S. We bought that. We also bought other assets to put into the eye care group and pipeline. And then we can take not only Tyrvaya, but the other programs, put our development expertise in and globalize them and commercialize them around the world. So I think that's a pretty good framework for the type of deals that we like to do, sort of a lead in an anchor product or anchor company and then bring other assets in.
Christopher Schott
analystOkay. Excellent. Just continuing through the maybe couple of U.S. specific questions. U.S. generics is a smaller part of the business certainly than in the past. But just what are you seeing on the pricing side there? I think it's been a big debate of are we finally seeing a more stable environment or just based on your perspective of the markets now?
Rajiv Malik
executiveThere are 2 components to that, Chris. One is the market. And for 7, 8 quarters now, which is -- we have been seeing, we have seen relatively stable prices, relatively stable pricing than what we have seen in the previous quarter. And that, I think, is a little bit of realization and appreciation with our big customers. They appreciate the importance of the sustainable supply chain as well as quality. And all this is rendering that. And I see this. I see this a little bit sticking around. It's not -- it's always been a cyclical, but I see all the signs of pointing towards this stability being sticking out. The second is your own mix. And I think as a company, we have been consistently moving a little bit relatively away from commodities. Of course, [ XS ] is a center, but we have been focusing on certain complex and difficult to make products like launching every second year a couple of those products. And that has basically positioned us in a way that we see our even U.S. market coming back to the growth now and why as we look for this. We are very excited by the portfolio we have in the U.S.A., the market stability, which is an encouraging sign for this market. And every year when we launched 400 million to 600 million of launches, U.S. is a big part of that. U.S. is a big part of that, and it will continue to be the focus because the signs you do for U.S.A. can be taken out to the rest of the board.
Christopher Schott
analystOkay. Maybe just on specific parts, at least thinking on the generic [indiscernible] opportunity. And it seems like one of the bigger ones for you in the U.S.?
Rajiv Malik
executiveNow it's exciting. Again, another first from us. We are on race over here, and we have been able to launch and the market is shaping exactly the way we thought. And especially at this point of time, there has been shifts happening in -- because of the [ AMCAP ] coming in and brand dropping the WACC, 40%, 50%. We see us getting the generics or us getting the market share and as this market -- and this market on overall ICS/LABA market will evolve between generic Advair, Symbicort and some of the brands which are out there and all that. And we are very excited and well positioned to get the market share in these 2 products.
Christopher Schott
analystAnd just the final 1 on the U.S. Just the product shortages that we've seen across the industry, is that changing at all the -- your customer kind of discussions you're having of just maybe a better appreciation of you can't just keep driving price to 0 and have some consequences?
Rajiv Malik
executiveThat's what I meant from the realization with the customers, the importance of having a sustainable supply, the quality of supply and not just being the lowest price because they have seen the impact it had on the overall industry, and that's what led to the drug shortages because many people walked away from several products, like we eliminated about plus 300, 400 products, sold [indiscernible] and that had an impact on the trucks shortages.
Christopher Schott
analystYes, absolutely. Just finally on the European portfolio. Just I'm trying to wrap my hands on just how to think about the growth of this portfolio and I guess if we think about this, like how does price play into this? Is this a market where there's incremental pressures? Are things more stable? Just help me a little bit.
Rajiv Malik
executiveA relatively very civil market from a price point. That's why we have been for several last years now, we have been growing Europe by 2%, 3%, 4% in that range, depending on a year-to-year. It's about -- if talk about price decline, it's not more than 0.5% to 1% a year.
Christopher Schott
analystOkay. So that's -- and you say that that's a sustainable kind of dynamic. Excellent. Last question on the core business. Just on the pipeline brand and generic, what are you most excited about over the next few years that we should be watching?
Rajiv Malik
executiveActually, many products. This year, '24 can be a big product for exciting launch of Victoza, launch of, which we another first. We're excited to bring in this year, of course, [indiscernible] product and also looking forward to launch our once-monthly Copaxone in the middle of the year. So there are several. And then followed on, like we have exciting every year, we've been talking about the complex [ bridge ] portfolio, but also the 505(b)(2) like Xulane Low Dose and [ bloxichem ]. There are buckets of -- we framed it at $1 billion-plus buckets, which should come to the life between now and the next 3 to 4 years.
Christopher Schott
analystGreat. Just a couple of cash flow questions. Maybe the first one. Thinking about 2024, are there onetime costs we need to think about in the P&L or anything from a cash flow perspective types of divestitures that we should be keeping in mind?
Sanjeev Narula
executiveYes. So let me take, Chris, like take it back and kind of raise kind of the overall -- what is the sources of cash flow next year and what's going to happen and then I'll talk to specifically on that. So if you think about '24, there are 3 sources of cash flow that we're looking at. One is obviously the organic cash flow, that -- from the business that we talked about. Then we have the opening cash balance that -- the excess cash that we have and then the proceeds from divestiture. All of these 3 will be in excess of $5 billion, right? So that's the sources. And then what we are committed, we'd probably be paying somewhere around $3 billion of debt to get to our leverage target that we talked about. That will leave us sufficient cash for the committed dividend that we have and for share buyback and business development that we talked about. So that's kind of we holistically we looked at that. For '24, we've been talking about a minimum cash flow of $2.3 billion, which is the organic cash flow before any divestiture cost and any expense around that. So the way to simply think about it is this $2.3 billion minimum is from the operating business. There would be some onetime costs associated with the restructuring, some of the closing of that work that is going on, but that's much less as you can see. Over a period of time, we brought that down. Our conversion is improving from EBITDA to cash flow. It has improved this year. It's going to improve that. And then as far as the divestiture are concerned, the cost and the taxes that we had are in line with what we committed before, roughly about $1 billion that we've committed for all the divestiture and that's all factored in, and that will be reflected. The important thing to keep in mind, because of the way accounting works, some of the divestiture cards will hit the operating cash flow line. But we will give transparency as we've given that so that you can see the base business operating cash flow is still strong and growing. And then you have the proceeds for the divestiture, which will be funded by the divestiture proceeds.
Scott Smith
executiveI just want to -- if you don't mind just stepping in and sort of maybe reiterating something that Sanjeev said, just because I think it's really important. And one of the reasons that I'm so excited about '24 that from the cash from regular operations together with divestitures in the course of '24, we're going to be able to do all the things that we need to do, right? We're going to be able to pay down the debt to the target ratio that we're looking for, we're going to be able to continue with the dividend. We're going to be able to get more aggressive in terms of share buybacks during the course of this year, and we're going to be able to do substantial business development. So we're going to be able to execute on all parts of the plan right in '24. So I think it's largely due to the hard work that's been done by these guys and others to get '23 and get the company in such a great place. And so it gives me a very nice jumping off point for '24 and beyond.
Christopher Schott
analystYes. That's great. Maybe just 1 more on the cash flow. How do we think about normalized kind of translation of EBITDA to cash flow for Viatris as we think about maybe 2025 and beyond?
Sanjeev Narula
executiveSo Chris, it's a great story to what Scott just talked about it. So we -- if we recall, back in '21, we had -- because of the combination, we had a lot of significant onetime cost as you bring companies together, whether it's the TSAs setting up the infrastructure, rationalizing the plans and all that kind of stuff. So they were substantial. Over a period of time, we brought that down. We worked on working capital optimization. So if you look at it from where we were to this year, we'd probably be somewhere around 50% cash flow conversion, which is very important. I expect this to continue to grow over a period of time. There are still areas that we're looking at. Low-hanging fruits, we by and large been able to do, but I continue to expect this 50% conversion from EBITDA to free cash flow continue to improve over a period of time.
Christopher Schott
analystAnd how high could that go over time?
Sanjeev Narula
executiveI think we can -- a lot depends on kind of what kind of focus on this. But I wouldn't be surprised if you can hit maybe 55% to 60% over a period of time in the next 3 to 4 years.
Christopher Schott
analystRight. Just final question for me for Scott, just to wrap up. Just thoughts on the stock. It seems like you're kind of making a lot of progress towards these issues. It seems like you're really excited about kind of dynamics going forward. What do you see as the primary disconnects between your view of the business and opportunities and what's reflected in valuation?
Scott Smith
executiveI think the primary discount is just how solid the company is, right? And just how predictable the company is from a revenue perspective, from an EBITDA perspective, from a cash flow perspective. We have a merger like the one we had, which is a large global event, a big merger, lots of moving pieces. It takes a while sometimes to get to that real stable base and through to the divestitures that we're doing and other things, I feel confident that there is a tremendously strong company. And we talk a lot about free cash flow, and we're talking about a minimum of $2.3 billion post-divestiture '24 and beyond and hopefully more than that as we go beyond, that is as much or more as every company in this sector, right? We've got a strong, diversified company, 37,000 employees, 165 countries and we have cash flow that will enable us to be able to be aggressive in terms of giving back to our shareholders and developing the portfolio and moving towards real revenue growth. I don't think people fully understand just how solid the company is and the opportunity is in '24 and beyond to really grow the company and unlock the multiple.
Christopher Schott
analystGreat. Well, thanks so much for joining us. Really appreciate the time today.
Scott Smith
executiveThank you, Chris.
Sanjeev Narula
executiveThank you.
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