Vibhor Steel Tubes Limited ($VSTL)

Ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon, and welcome to the Q4 and FY 2026 Earnings Conference Call for Vibhor Steel Tubes Limited. We have with us today Mr. Vibhor Kaushik, Managing Director of the company. [Operator Instructions] I would now like to hand over the conference to Mr. Vibhor Kaushik, Managing Director of Vibhor Steel Tubes Limited for his opening remarks and to share with the audience the company's performance in Q4 and FY '26. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Hello. I'm Vibhor Kaushik, I Welcome, everyone, for this conference. The company, I will start with some data of how the company has performed in the quarter and -- and then we'll give a brief of what company has done in 20 years before explaining our expansion, which we are doing in mostly in [indiscernible] plant and some expansion that we are doing in Hyderabad. The company in quarter 4 has performed quite well. The revenue has increased 16% compared to last year. EBITDA has also increased 26%. Another key development in Vibhor Steel this year has been our third unit in [indiscernible] where we produce by highway guard rails, also known as crash barrier, Oktagon and high-mast poles, which are used in lighting, and transmission line towers which are used to carry electricity from the source to the end users. The H2 performance of the company has also been quite good. Compared to last year, the revenue has increased by 18%. EBITDA has also increased by 21%. So overall, company has done better. And besides the performances in numbers and the growth, the company has also expanded the production lines from only pipe on our diversification into other sectors, which I will highlight more. I will go over a little short detail of the company, the journey of Rebate starting from 2013 for investors if they are new I thought it is important that I show them the path the storyline and the journey of the post deal in a brief way possible so that I can give more time to question and answers, and I can give more time to highlight the development that we are doing. This company started in 2003, in Maharashtra, where we were only producing ERW pipe, black and galvanized, only till 4 inches. At that time, our installed capacity was quite less. We were only doing 10,000 tonnes yearly. From there, I joined the business in 2007, late 2006, 2007. And after starting from United States, I joined full time before joining I attended a lot of conferences. I attended a lot of [indiscernible] to get all the ideas of where the world stands and where we are as a company and also as India, which gave me a lot of ideas. And it translated very quickly into data. our installed capacity in 2007, 2008 was increased to 60,000 tonnes. Our sizes before was half-ish to 4 inches, and then we increased it to 8 inches. So it was a proper complete setup that catered to the end users in completion where they could buy everything from just one company and lay down their pipeline, may that be for builders as firefighters, firefighting equipment may that be agriculture, may that be in any sector. So most of the sizes we started to cater when we developed 8 inches. That carried on our galvanizing capacity increase from 1 [indiscernible] that we installed 1 more. Then we started doing our export to Egypt as a gas line that happened in 2013. Then we decided that Maharashtra capacity utilization is optimum, and we should look at growth in other places of India, which gave us the opportunity and the idea to explore our market in South, Telengana being a new state at that point in time. We installed the same similar capacity it 8 inches in Telangana at around 2016, 2017. There from very beginning, we had half inch to all the way 12 benches because we wanted to cater to all the sizes. And that gave us a turnover jump within that year. quite considerable around about, if I remember, 100 CR turnover was achieved. Same similarly, that journey carried on, we added from 1 [indiscernible] to 2 [indiscernible]. We added 5 -- besides 5, we started doing highway garden or crash barrier in Hyderabad which we installed another gavineline. Then we decided that we have reached quite optimal level in Telangana as well. And now we should explore another market where we do not have a presence, but there is a demand, which gave Barsuasugura, we had installed our plant, which became operational last year, I will say, fully operations somewhere around Diwali time in terms of market exploring and started our dispatches during that time. Here, we have installed pipe unit. At the same time, we installed crash barrier. At the same time, we also diversified and we've installed Octagon and Hima's pole and transmission line towers both. Our directors are very active, very involved and they are all involved in various things, my father, my mother, they're also involved [indiscernible] is also 1 other director, Mr. Sukumar Singer, is also 1 other director, who is also a very key -- holds a very key position in Maharashta [indiscernible] Limited. So now we have reached all our installed capacity is around 1,25,000 tonne in Bombay, around 96,000 in Hyderabad, and we are achieving good 74% in Bombay and 67% in Hyderabad. The idea that we are trying to pursue at this point in time is diversification. Our revenue, 12% comes from pipe -- sorry, 85% comes from pipe, 12% comes from crash barrier. And so far, 3% has come from other diversification, which we've just started, such as transmission line towers and poll. But 1 of the important point that I would like to highlight now about [indiscernible] or as a company as a whole is that the tower division, which we've only started now have seen a lot of order intake. We have around about 2,300 tonnes of orders from transmission line, mainly from Madhya Pradesh electricity and Chhattisgarh. And for [indiscernible], we always decide that we will take small steps, we will see the market and then do our expansion. So for [indiscernible], we had installed capacity of around about 150 tonnes. At this point in time, we are sitting on 300 tonnes of orders. So we have started our expansions. We have started placing the orders for the machine. Machines should be arriving another 10 days that will increase the production capacity from 150 to 300. And further, now we are targeting only for Oktagon and Imapole installed capacity of 500 tonnes per month because we are seeing that we have only started recently and the order flows are stacking up with us. So that is a good news that Oktagon and Himart market is good right now, and it is very promising for many years to come. Same is the case with transmission towers. -- we thought we will start small. We will see how the market is, where we reach and we were expecting maybe we'll be able to get an order of maybe 300, 400 tonnes a month. But the market is very conducive -- and we've been able to show promise, and the customers have been able to put their trust in us, and now we're standing at 2,300 tonnes of [indiscernible] transmission line towers. In Jharsuguda, we only had 1 garanizing tank, as I said, because we wanted to see where the -- how the market is, what the demand is. If we can we should start with only 1 galvanizing line and expand it. Now since we have so many orders, I'm happy to announce that we are installing another galvanizing time in [indiscernible] which a lot of work is done, machines have arrived. The civil work is going on and in another 1, 1.5 months, we should be able to put that galvanizing tank. Once that galvanizing tank is installed, we should be able to cater to all the order flows in the books that we have right now and months to come. Same expansion of galvanizing line we are doing in Hyderabad plant as well, which is -- the expansion is whole and solely for the highway guardrail or crash barrier because there, the demand is, again, the order that we have at the moment is twice our production capacity. So to cater to that, now we're putting another galvanizing. And to to support all of this and to support our vision and our progress. I'm also happy to announce that the rating agency Crisil has increased our retain from BBB to BBB+, which validates us as a standpoint of a company which is very promising. It's delivering its promise and it's fulfilling all the promises that we made that we at the start of IPO or a that, as I said last time in our conference all of them are getting streamlined, -- most of them have gotten streamline? And last and not -- last but not the least, I would also like to highlight that we are also progressing in another kind of a pole, which is a monopole for which various certifications are required, we have achieved some of the certification the final certification is filed is put from CPRI, after which we will be able to participate in various inquiries of Monopole, which is primarily a replacement of transmission line towers mostly in the metros because of the space restriction because power line traditional tower line takes a lot of space, [indiscernible] takes less space. It's a lot in demand in metros. And clearly, that's kicking in, in villages as well because prices, land prices are increasing everywhere. So that is also in the pipeline, and we are expecting that should get streamlined by second quarter of this year, hopefully, then we'll have all our permission and certifications in place. These are -- I hope, in a short period of time, I've been able to explain what company has done in the past and what we are doing right now and what are future expansions are. Once again, I thank you, everyone, for listening. And -- thank you very much for being part of the company as an investor. And now we can take -- if there are any questions, please let me know. We'd be happy to answer.

[Operator Instructions] We will take our first question from the line of Harshit from Robo Capital.

Sir, first question is regarding looking at your PPT at Slide #19, right? There, we have guided that we are looking at 50% upside in overall revenue. So we are implying that we will achieve a top line of, let's say, INR 1,700 crores by FY '28. But I just wanted to understand that right now we are in 4% EBITDA margin. So what sort of EBITDA we're looking at that time?

EBITDA margin, this is -- at this point in time, Transformation Line Tower has a better EBITDA margin. Highway guardrail also has a better EBITDA margin. Pole also has a better EBITDA margin. All the diversification that we're doing is the EBITDA margins are better in all of them. So once this story unfolds and we are able to achieve our target growth, the EBITDA can increase its forward-looking is difficult to say. But however, because these are all high margin, I can totally say it will be more than 4%, by at least 1%, there is no doubt on it on a very, very conservative side. I'll give you an example, this month, the transmission and tower auto that we have has a margin of INR 10,000 per tonne, some of the orders. And the conventional galvanizing pipe has a margin of INR 3,000 to INR 4,000 per tonne. So we are almost talking more than double. So the EBITDA margins are bound to increase to how much it will increase. There are market ups and downs, difficult to say, but it looks all these -- the new products are looking very promising.

Right. Understood. And on, sir, Slide #20, we have given the product-wise breakup. So I can see that like black pipe and galvanized are the 2 major revenue contributors of our company. So I just want to understand, like do we track the EBITDA or revenue per tonne internally product-wise, I just want to get some color on that.

Yes. So because right now, 80% is galvanizing or black pipe, the only 20% contribution is coming from others, which is bound to increase. At this point in time, we do have analysis of the product-wise, but not very extensively, which will start to happen now because now the products, especially for Jharsuguda, it is going to take a lot of our orders and a lot of our sales are going to come from other products. So the diversification and the product-wise margins and revenues will start to come. Right now, there is -- some bit is done, but not because only 20% is not very major. But this year on, we will start keeping.

So what can be the revenue from new products like the extrarenal polls, transmission line, et cetera? Like what sort of revenue are we looking from there?

So our target is to give this ratio, which is 85 right now for 80 to 85, we will bring it down to 75. So as much as 25% to 30%, we are targeting the revenue shall come from these new products -- and this year. This is our target.

Understood. And what kind of debt outlook do we have for FY '27 and '28.

We are not increasing any debt at the moment. They will -- however, there will be expansion, we will do around about some expansion we will do. But for all of that, the debt and everything is already placed. So new debts, they're not coming. That is what our idea is right now.

[Operator Instructions] We will take our next question from the line of [indiscernible], an Individual Investor.

Okay. So my question is, which product gives highest share of revenue.

At the moment, the highest share of revenue is coming from black and galvanized pipe. Because it's a very voluminous work, it is a lot of volume is produced every month. So the revenue even in the future, will come from black and carbonized pipe, most of it, a good chunk of it.

Okay. And the product margin wise.

So the best product margin-wise, again, the market keeps changing, maybe the competition will become -- and the numbers will change in the future. But at this point in time, the #1, I would place it at Monopole, which gives you the best margin. Number two, I will give it to Oktagan and mass pool. Number three, I will give it to transmission line towers. Number four, I'll give it to highway guardrail or [indiscernible] crash barrier, and then I will give it to pipe Black and carbonized pipe.

Okay. So how does the company plan to increase its reach all over in India?

At the moment, our reach our presence is already in west of it in Maharashtra for 5. In Havas, we already have our presence. So the West and South is we are already catering Northeast, where we're putting up right now is going to -- has given us an opportunity in markets like Chattisgarh, Odisha, parts of West Bengal. So this is primarily of the pipes. -- for other lines such as the poles and transmission line Monopole, there is no such thing as statewide logistically because these are high margins, the logistry does not affect you as much. So you can cater to the entire of India. For example, for Oktagon and Hymas, we have got some orders from Rajasthan as well, which we are catering from Odisha, so they have placed the order, and we are delivering it in Rajasthan also, which is quite far away over 1,000 kilometers. So for the new products, it is not a concern from Jharsuguda, we can capture a lot of market. But as I said, I always take bay steps, and I first gauged the market and then we increased it. So our first target is to increase our production capacity of coal to 500 because already we have 300 tonnes of order. We are actually not entertaining more orders because we will not be able to cater to them because of the installed capacity. Once we achieve that, we'll go ahead with more installation of the machines in the future. But this year, our target is to get 500 and streamline it. So -- all of these products go into the contractors, which have a requirement for a particular area. For example, we have registered ourselves in PWD in Chhattisgarh, U.P. So that's where most of the orders are coming from. As we keep on increasing our registration in Pan India, our presence will be everywhere. Most of the -- a lot of places, fires are already put and some places files are going to be put in 1 month. So this is pan-India process where we get our approval for different various government offices, which further gives tenders and orders to the contractor and from contractor, the orders come to us.

[Operator Instructions] We will take our next question from the line of Harshit from Robo Capital.

Again. So sir, previously, you said that the EBITDA per ton in galvanized pipe is around INR 3,000 per tonne. So sir, my understanding is that some peers do add around INR 6,000 to INR 7,000 on a per tonne basis. So why is there such a gap.

Generally, the figures that I gave is quite conservative. Second thing is, though the others were doing [indiscernible] if it is for pie, their market is and their pipe line is different. For example, we are only doing water line. A lot of our peers do API pipeline where the margins are more where you get with the thicknesses and the machine and the capacity of the machine is different, and the galvanizing requirement for that pipe is also different. Some other peers are doing export into countries where we, at the moment, doesn't have our presence and we are not targeting that because now we're trying to do a diversification and go into where the target is not volume but the bottom line, such as all these other products that we are doing. So that's why the peer-to-peer comparison might appear that our margins per tonne is less than our peers.

Right. So what is our revenue per tonne for galvanized pipe.

So the revenue per tonne, again, every month it changes, I think this month was -- it goes in meter if you do a translation, it should be around 75,000, 76,000 per tonne.

Right. Understood. And what sort of capacity utilization are we looking for FY '27 and '28 both?

So there are -- the way I look at the capacity utilization, see the capacity utilization of Bombay has been around about 74% for around I think, 2, 3 years now and Hyderabad also stands at 67%. Now Hyderabad is going to see an additional installed capacity and yet I think the additional installed capacity that we're doing will get consumed under 100%. So overall, it will stand around 67%. Now -- when I say I look at the installed capacity differently is because most of our revenue comes from galvanizing, made that recognizing of pipe or any of these products are galvanized products. So we see how much of galvanizing bank is utilized. So in Bombay, we have 2 gaminizing tanks with a capacity of 5,000 tonnes odd per tonne. It's almost 100% utilized. Same thing with Hyderabad, there are 2 galvanized, they're running on 100% installed capacity. Same thing in [indiscernible], the installed capacity will gradually increase for all our products. For example, Pole, it's already full [indiscernible] pole. So we're doing an expansion. Transmission line tower is at par right now, more or less at the number of orders we have and the stock versus equal. Pipe is less pipe installed capacity is more, but our utilization is less. That's also -- that will start being up as our presence is about to build. So various spaces, we will increase it every year, we -- for pipe alone, we are targeting a 10% to 15% utilization increase. But for the other product, it's almost 90% or 100% of what it appears to be right now that we are in full utilization.

Right. Understood. And the total installed capacity that we have of 377,000 metric ton per annum. So what is the peak revenue that we are targeting from this installed facility? And in which year will we achieve it?

The utilization of all of it is at optimal level for Maharasthra and Hyderabad, all the additions will only happen in [indiscernible]. So pipe alone, it might take some time, maybe 1.5, 2 years to reach this optimal level. But for everything else, the -- it's a wait and watch. The installed capacity gets full, we increase our capacity. -- for everything else. For pipe, [indiscernible] will take some time, 1.5 to 2 years to go to an optimal level of, say, 60%.

Right. Understood. But what is the peak revenue that we can do from the current facility of 3.77.

The peak revenue is a very subjective term I'll tell you why, because the pipe price last year was around about as low as 52,000 for black and now the pipe price is 65,000. Similarly, just a few years ago, I remember seeing a pipe price as low as 45,000. So the revenue to tell what to [indiscernible] has -- depends on a lot of areas, which is very difficult to tell because this is Steel we are talking about and steel prices as an input has a lot of variation. So to come up with a figure and we write on it. For example, right now, we are at 1100 CR. Last year, it was less than 1100. Now our target is somewhere more around 1,300 to 1,400 but that is very subjective. So that's why when we look at our revenue, we look at how much of installed capacities we are utilizing in terms of tonnage because everything is done. -- tonne does not change, mathematically speaking. The value of that tonnage changes depending on the steel prices. So to tell you exactly it ends on a lot of things, the market -- some people are saying steel prices are going to increase INR 4,000, INR 5,000 even from now if the geopolitical situation does not improve. So without even doing any addition on your tonnage, your revenue will increase. I hope you understood it's a little tricky revenue part with steel.

Yes, sir. I was just thinking that given a product large profit of 75 to 25, think we have any target OK will achieve to INR 2,000 crores of revenue going forward or something like that? Not like proper specific number but directional view.

The -- at this point in time, the directional view that we have is, one, to use optimally your installed capacity. Number two, to go fully -- full utilization of our galvanizing capacity, full [indiscernible], maximum. And our third target is to increase the EBITDA contribution from all the new products. This year, our target is to -- I mean, our conscious attempt and our conscious look out in the in that data spectrum is for this that where are we performing on this? So we are keeping a constant eye on this. So the revenue will increase or decrease, but this will stay with us. And the good thing about the new products are that the variations in the steel prices do not get affected too much because it's an order base. So your raw material comes at that order only you send the final product. With pipe, you have to keep in inventory, the inventory goes up and down and it contributes. So the revenue is different for that for the pipe. So our target is target more of these diversification so that your EBITDA margins could improve and stay constant and has no impact on the steel variation, the steel price variation.

[Operator Instructions] We will take our next question from the line of Ashok Sharma, an individual investor.

So my first question is [indiscernible] impact from the middle east war on our operational costings.

I'm sorry. Can you -- Sharmaji, can you repeat this question 1 more time?

Are the impacts from the Middle East ward on operations and costing.

Yes. I hope somebody would ask -- so there is a direct impact on transportation. The transportation cost has increased, but most of our products we sell ex factory -- so any transportation that increase will impact, but it will impact the end user, no doubt. The crude diesel, petrol, everything is on a rise. There is a factor in galvanizing, which is the either gas-fired or furnace oil. So we use furnace oil to operate our carbonizing -- so that furnace oil prices are also on the rise because it all comes from there. It's a part of it's a petroleum product only. So that is 1 impact. But that is being translated and passed on and been accepted so far in the market? Another thing is the way it is affecting us is that we've not been able to cater to export which we used to do in Europe. So now our focus in export has changed from Europe to Australia, which is all done from Bombay. However, that was done because we wanted to keep our galvanizing tank full at full capacity. With or without export, those galvanizing tank are full, which essentially means that our internal requirement of these products in India is very, very healthy. So as long as the steel utilization and requirement of India is always there, we are not affected too much in terms of selling the product because India itself has a lot of requirement and still every year, there's a 9% increase in our utilization. So India is quite healthy in terms of all these products. meter dip, whether it be transmission line, whether we pole. So that way, our sale does not get affected. Export, yes. And the petroleum product yes. These are the 2 causes. However, whenever the geopolitical conflict gets resolved, there is a lot of opportunity additionally that will come in those areas because all of those areas, infrastructures have been impacted due to due to the various forms of attacks that they have witnessed. So it will require a lot of our products also in that region. But that will be later when the problem gets resolved.

Okay. I will just add 1 more question. Can you please throw some light on agreement with [indiscernible] steel? And what products do we sell to them?

So the agreement has been quite similar since 2003 to now, which is that they we produce all our pipe for -- and we sell it to [indiscernible]. So that agreement is there. It's -- it's a very, very good understanding, business understanding for this product. The company [indiscernible] their main line is main line of product is seamless pipe -- so they don't want to rest in too much time in ERW pipe. So they had given this opportunity to us to cater to their market in Maharashtra to begin with in 2003. Similarly, they have arrangement with another company on the similar line for the past 20 years or so, maybe 15 years in Bangalore also. So the company believes that this product should be given for manufacturing and sold in such manner. They have put their confidence in us and they were the one who encouraged us to go to Hyderabad for the same product so that they could be able to sell it in Hyderabad. They were the one who encouraged us to go to Odisha as well. So that is a solid agreement. This is a pattern which is followed by a lot of brands which have had the presence in India for many years and seen diversification and they've gone into products, which has very high EBITDA margins. Tatas also do this. Tata is a steel and factor are always concentrating on producing HR pos and various other quarters. So the pipe they give it to other companies to produce. So Tata and Jindal are at par we're doing this kind of method. So the agreement that we have with them is solid. I think it's I don't remember, I think it's for another 5 years right now. But it's just a formality we keep increasing it. So I think it should be for another 5 years from now, give or take. Anilji can give the exact number of years. The agreement is there.

It's for the 6 years from April 23 to March 29 or 1 leg [indiscernible].

We will take our next question from the line of [indiscernible], an Individual Investor.

Thank you for the opportunity -- my question is total current order book pipeline and confirmed orders in hand, also the time line for the same to be executed?

So they -- it's not termed as such, but I consider it as a fast-moving FMCG sort of. So whatever is the current order is to be fulfilled mostly ASAP. If it's a distribution dealer network, they place an order, they expect the order to be given within like 4 days, such as pipe. So the current order is 5,000 tonnes are cumulative of all 3 units. I don't have the exact clarification but it should be around about 2,000 odd in [indiscernible] Maharashtra, around about 1,800 in Hyderabad, something like that. So those orders are continuous orders. So we deliver on that, we get more orders from them. Crash barrier or highway guardrail is 2,000 tonnes, around about 1,000 in Hyderabad and 1,000 in [indiscernible]. That is a time line of around about 1 month. So if you see in adraconstantly, every month to month, our sale is upward of 1,000 tonnes, all these peers. -- within the past 6 months to 1 year, this other data. For tower, the order quality at this point in time is 2,400 tonnes. So the tower is not something that can be delivered right away. It generally has a time line because it's not a distribution line. This goes into electrification. So you require an audit, they come, they inspected, they gave a certification, they give a DI dispatch instruction and then the material moves. So it's a process. So this 2,400 tonnes that we have, shall be with us for around about 2 months period of time. In 2 months, they should clear out. And then Okta van Pole and Himax is again like pipe, they deliver and they expect us -- the order and they expect us to deliver within 4 to 5 days 1 week. So that stands at 300 tonnes. So I'm -- we are holding on to it. We cannot supply 300 tonnes because the installed capacity is not there at the moment. But so far, we have managed. We have given them the time line that we'll be able to give it to you in 45 days. So far, the orders are alive and they shall stay like that.

Okay. Okay. And 1 more question is there any CapEx plans for upcoming for financial year '27.

We will do additional of around about 10 cr in '27. That is again -- again, as I have been pointing this out as our method of working, we will be -- we will only do this CapEx when we are 100% sure that for all the additional products, the demand is there, and it has reached. So let's say, we are at 500 tonnes for pole, now we see that we can reach up to 800 or 1,000 tonnes will go further installation of capacity. Same thing with highway Garda. So we are estimating somewhere around 10 cr, we will we will do our expansion.

[Operator Instructions] We have next question from the line of [indiscernible] from RoboCapital.

My first question is for the FY '26 numbers, do we have any one-offs reported in the P&L like inventory gains or anything like any nonrecurring item. Any nonrecurring, one-off I can think of it.

Anilji, this is a balance sheet question.

Basically net gain is the regular process is not exception.

So can you contexture how much is inventory gain because the steel prices have gone up, right?

So there must be some inventory gain. Basically, the -- our finished product prices decided month-on-month basis. So there might be no major impact on inventory granolas.

I think the -- this question had is from the fact that steel prices have seen a lot of uptake on which is probably why this question has come into picture. -- most of this -- most of the price increase has happened somewhere around the time when the U.S., Iran conflict has started. The prices have gone up. It is going to reflect in Q1 of this financial year. But on a broader -- you will have some inventory gain, but steel prices are very, very volatile. It has happened. The same thing happened during COVID as well. We saw a lot of increase in our inventories, inventory gain was there. But on a longer picture, it stays pretty much similar because the prices will also come down in the future. Understood. It is only a moment thing. The inventory gain is only for that moment or so that 1 quarter or for that maybe a very good year, like COVID had a lot of difficulties a lot of problems, but for the manufacturers, it showed a lot of gain in inventory. That is a very rare phenomenon that has happened in 20 years. So these are over like situation or I don't think this situation what we are right now is as that we have to be watchful for it. But it happens very rarely that we have to achieve keep attention on the inventory in right, sir.

And my next question is on -- for our new products like poles or transmission, et cetera. So what is the revenue that we did for FY '26?

FY '26 is it's a very new space for us. So to give a figure, an exact figure is very difficult because all these products are very, very new to us. However, I can just tell you the current picture.

INR 70 crores, INR 100 crores.

That is there. You -- I think in all of it, you would be able to get this much. Again, revenue is subjective to what the steel prices are going to be. But we're looking in terms of tonnage -- our target is to achieve 500 tonnes in coal and a 1,000 tonne in transmission line towers. That is what our target is. And I think the total revenue, 30% share is were targeting. We will achieve it in '26 or we achieved it in 27, that is to be seen. But so far, it's looking promising because of the order flow that we can see in our books at the moment. if the order book stays like this, we will be able to achieve it sooner also.

Sir, I was just trying to get to a revenue number. So 30% ballpark can be in the range of INR 400 crores plus, right? -- in 2 years. Yes.

Yes, yes, yes.

Right. And also because the per tonne margin is almost 3x the pipes. Can you also say that the EBITDA on an EBITDA basis will be about 10%.

EBITDA, EBITDA basis will increase substantially will increase for these products.

Only for these products, it should be in double digits, right? It should be 10% or above.

You will get, I think, because we are new in the market, we are not commanding the same price tag that some of the established ones are probably commanding at the moment. So it will be less than -- for [indiscernible] double digit, it will take some time because our presence is still new, although there is promise and we are getting orders and everything and not a very high discount also. But see, I'd like to give conservative figures from there if it increases is good. So you can say it will float a bit less than that, I'd say around 7%, 8%. But again, this is -- it's not verified. We'll get these numbers very soon. I think in this year, quarter 2 by quarter 2, we will have a fair good idea. How much is coming out.

Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I now hand the conference back to Mr. Vibhor Kaushik, Managing Director from Vibhor Steel Tubes Limited for closing comments.

Thank you, everyone, for joining this presentation. And most of the -- or all the questions that is being put to the point, very relevant. All of them were. I'd like to close this presentation with with an insight that the products that we are catering right now looks more promising than what we envisioned when we got into it, the inquiries, the order flow, everything, the data speaks for it. So we can always see it -- and this is when a lot of the permissions in different departments are still pending with us, and yet we have so many orders. So the expansion is very thoughtful. We are -- every step that we're doing in our expansion, we're doing it only when we are very, very sure of it. So this year and years to come, looks very promising for the company. And -- and we are very happy we -- I've said it earlier also that the rating agency has also vetted it by giving us a better rating that we had last year. So with that, I'd like to thank everybody, and you -- everybody have a very good day. Thank you.

Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Vibhor Steel Tubes Limited, that concludes today's session. Thank you for your participants. You may now disconnect the call.