Vibra Energia S.A. (VBBR3) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, everyone. It's a great pleasure to be here with you to answer your questions during this Q&A session. And here today, we have our Director -- Retail Director, Flavio Dantas; our Marketing and Development -- Business Development Director, Leo Burgos; and also Digital Director, Andersen; and our Head of Convenience, Natalia Cid. And in this room, we are going to answer questions about these topics: Retail, digital, loyalty, convenience stores, business development in retail. And we expect you to write in your questions through the chat window. And then just for you to have an idea about today's program, you that have logged into this room will remain here. You don't need to leave this room. And during this session, you're going to go through 3 different thematic sessions. The first one is about B2B2C digital, and we are going to talk about these topics that I mentioned: Retail, convenience, marketing, digital payments and loyalty. And then you will receive this new topic, or we are going to talk about this topic strategy, ESG finance. And later on, we are going to go to the 3 -- or the third session with the topic, B2B operations with Marcelo Bragança, [indiscernible] Vinícius dos Santos Silva as the moderator.

So let's focus now in this room, and I have already a initial question to ask to Leo Burgos. So Ricardo Rezende from JPMorgan wrote in. So let's go. The major [plates] are trying to [develop] apps to compete, integrating digital portfolios, loyalty programs. So what's your target to penetrate digital wallet in the next 5 years? What are the measures that can be adopted to speed this up and increase the integration with the loyalty program? In face of these airline companies that are volatile and use these loyalty programs, what kind of alternatives can Vibra adopt to monetize this business? Leo, the floor is yours.

Thank you very much, folks. A very interesting question. So we have some objectives and goals that we have set for digital wallets and digital solutions and engagement with our clients. Our mission is, by 2025, to reach 8 million customers that are active. So it's important to say that in this new relationship program that involves solutions such as digital wallets and [Audio Gap] through a redesign of the premier loyalty program. And you can see that it's much more interesting now. And through this, we're trying to increase our partnership network offering better of -- services and products, and the best way to monetize that and make it viable will be through offering new products and services. Notably, financial service but not exclusively. So maybe we can even use energy -- electric energy through our app. This can be done with -- through partnerships like with Ame. So of course, we can have different ways of doing that.

I believe we had a problem with the connection, Just bear with us, 1 minute. I believe we are facing some internet -- he's having some internet issues. So I'm going to ask another question, and then Leo will be back soon. So this question goes to Flavio. Ricardo Rezende JPMorgan wrote in. Vibra has been experiencing success to convert stations within their network. How do you see this trend for the next years? Is there any room to implement smaller stations or we will involve greater networks? Do you expect to see any structural change? How do you see the competition of players that entered into the Brazilian market recently?

Good afternoon. Ricardo, thank you for your question. Since 2020, we have been focusing on the quality of our businesses. We are very much concerned with the operation of the business. We have done business with networks. We signed some good contracts in 2020. We are currently assessing some of the networks in our pipeline, but we want to have good operators and good businesses that are strategic to Vibra. So this is the most important topic. When it comes to this upfront and post payment, they have been focusing on this -- that has a higher percentage of upfront disbursement, and we can see a demand in the market for this kind of solution. So I believe that this will happen and be more common than the upfront one. I believe that we have this quality of white flags in Brazil. There are many people that want to form partnerships with Vibra. So again, we will try to be in these different spaces in the best possible way. So when you talk about these new entrants, I don't see any movement, but I believe that we have the 3 major player yet. And of course, competition is quite fierce. And I believe there is room for us to grow. The value proposition of Vibra is quite strong, and I believe we see success in the future.

Thank you very much, Flavio. I'm going to go back to Leo because we had a problem with his connection. And on the major [plates], they have been working to increase loyalty, integrating digital wallets and other programs. What's your target to see the penetration of digital wallets for the next 5 years? What kind of measures can be taken to speed this up? And also the high integration with these loyalty products in face of airline companies that are volatile with the monetization of loyalty programs. What would be the alternatives that you can adopt to monetize this segment? This is Ricardo Rezende, JPMorgan's question.

Thank you once again. I apologize for the internet connection. My audio was -- quality was bad, but now it's great. So to start off, we do have a plan that is important in designing our digital solutions through our premier program. We are already doing that, and we are currently redesigning. So we expect to have 8 million active customers because the total client base is much higher than that, but we are focusing on active clients. And we will get there just by doing what we have been doing. We haven't launched officially yet, but it's on the stores about our new app, the premier app, with very advanced user experience completely updated. We expect -- through partnerships, we expect to be more relevant to our clients. But it's not enough. We will need to have an investment in cost of acquisition, CAC, and this could happen through Vibra's investment or similar partnerships with the Ame company or something more disruptive that is more long-lasting that focused on results sharing with potential partners. So these are things that we are currently analyzing. We expect that the way to attract value has to go through all the products and services that are not necessarily few. We have to leverage recurrence and the transactions that take place in our ecosystem. After we have all that, we can offer other products and services. Maybe they are connected to some sort of energy that might offer in the future or maybe these are products and services that are different such as financial services or products related to credit provision, insurance. So I believe we do have a very interesting way that takes into account the level of engagement that we offer to our clients.

Thank you very much, Leo. So I'd like to ask a question to Natalia. Natalia, talking about convenience store, how much they can represent for the company's EBITDA? Can you tell us about the result? Is it common for retail sector to have a negative EBITDA in the first phase of expansion? Will be that the case with BR Mania? I would like you to complement and it's worthwhile explaining how our stores work. It's a franchise model. So the investors can understand better these results and this partnership and so on.

Thank you very much, folks, and thank you for your question. Well, our model is predominantly franchise based. So this makes an impact on the cash flow, is less aggressive than a retail type of operation. So even when we are expanding we don't expect to have [no expectations] to work with negative cash flows. Well, the representativeness of that in the distribution business, when we compare with what we have today at Vibra take into account the size of our company and also the business needs that we have involving aviation, B2B and retail, the representative of this type of convenience business within Vibra is not that high in face of this huge size of our company. Having said that, what we expect with this new partnership and this new company is to set up a company that have multiples of hundreds of thousands of reals in terms of EBITDA, a robust growth in terms of revenue and growth in -- revenue in our stores. So the BR Mania makes BRL 1.1 billion per year with more than 1,200 stores. So this allows us to have this profitability margin that can sustain this growth that we see in the future. So although we have different operational models within our strategy and among them, we have their own operation or have master franchise or a franchise that is not necessarily on the hands of the owner of the station, so will be predominantly be a huge franchise network which allows us to have this EBITDA margin and promote the profitability of the business as a whole.

Thank you very much, Natalia. This question came from Regis Cardoso, Credit Suisse. So let's continue talking about convenience stores. So do they really have something different for consumers? Do you see a difference from the station owner to be open to set up a convenience store taking into account your mode with the partnership with Lojas Americanas? What is the possibility to adopt 2 flags? And what about the synergies to have station stores or street stores? This came from Ricardo Rezende, JPMorgan.

I'm going to answer this one, okay. So thank you once again, Ricardo. It's a long question. Let's see if I'll be able to answer it. So when you think about consumers, we have a lot of researchers on this. The most recent one, like 2 or 3 months ago, we confirmed that 62% of the clients that go to the stations, they use the convenience stores. Actually, since the second service that they go for after filling up their tanks. So it's the second great thing. We know there is a lot of room for improvement and -- in order to make it more attractive. And another interesting piece of information is that 80% that person goes to the convenience store. So 60% that go to the petrol station go to the stores. But 80% that are in these stores they come from the station. But we do have people coming from outside, just pedestrians or they use bicycles and so on. So of course, we can improve that, especially when you compare against other markets that this is more evolved. Moreover, when we see how consumers -- how consumers see our brand, the BR Mania network, 85% of the clients, they -- 87% actually declared that they know our [ band ] which is the greatest network in the sector. We are not the greatest one. There is a great one, but we are very close to our competitor when it comes to brand recognition. So that shows that is [relevant] to what we can offer. When we talk about stations, service station owners, and we have this latest version of this survey. 7% of service stations owners, they have some sort of convenience solution. So not necessarily the franchise of the distributor, but 70% offers some sort of convenience services. So not necessarily the format that the franchisees have are more adequate for different types of service stations. So in this morning session, I showed you that we have been investing in new models that we will be able to capture this different type of needs -- meet this type of needs. So here, we have this logistics capacity that is widespread in the country, and we can see that it's going to be amazing. It's almost like the plug-and-play solution. As [CADE] can authorize our partnership, we will be able to be tapping into their distribution centers and their logistics strength. And we'll be able to have to supply the stores more [indiscernible] time, bringing relations to the delivery and that increased the perception of value for the franchisees and the increase in the competitiveness and the different products that we offer. When you talk about street shops and station shops, we understand that they won't complement the other, especially when you go to certain urban centers, we have more efficient routes and also more density of shops. You can see that plays a role in this sector, especially when you go to Mexico, Japan markets, you can see that this density influences the operational and logistics results of that. So we see that it's important to tap into this possibility [Audio Gap] believe that what is going to be very similar to what is in the station is on the store. But of course, we see some differences. Street shops and -- are helping more, serving more the pedestrians and the station shops, 80% are the people that went there to fill up their tanks. And this is different when you separate one business from another. So we believe that these issues are important to strengthen our value proposition and after it's strong enough, and when we increase this attractiveness for everyone, our business will be even more consolidated, enabling us to expanding and meeting our goals.

Thank you, Leo. I would like to continue with you. There are 2 interesting questions about stores, and it's connected to what you're saying. First one is from Thiago Duarte from BTG. And he's asking the penetration of convenience store is slow in Brazil. It's always been low. What do you think will be the catalyst for it to thrive here? And the partnership with LASA, how do you see that -- what do you think the partnership with LASA can bring? I think you talked about that a bit. And especially for the model that you're developing, how can we think about owned store stores and franchises? Natalia had said -- had talked a bit.

Yes, as I've mentioned in my previous answer, but I will say it again. I think it's interesting information. Most people, all of us, we see the penetration based on previous history where we had information coming from the unions. So Sindicom and the other unions would show the figures, and we would say -- we would take them as accurate. But actually, this is the size of franchises in gas stations. I said that there are 70% of some sort of convenience solution being offered in gas stations. They are the most sophisticated ones, the franchise or it can be simple ones like a vending machine. But there is a great range, and it shows that there is a strong presence of convenience offers for our industry. And it comes back to my answer. The solution will be connected to the formats that the franchises will be able to offer to the different -- the diversity of stations, models that there are either because of urban and road models, big cities, small cities, cities with -- that are more or less developed. And so new follow-up models will be necessary for that. And this is supported by technology. In the near future, we'll have autonomous models that will be able to be in places where they cannot be right now. We have a convenience model that is based on vending machines only. There is pit stop model that is for smaller cities that is focused on tobacco, snacks and beverage, things that we've tried with Ambev. And now we'll do a co-branding to advance in smaller cities. And we believe that all of that will help leverage the solutions and boost the solutions that are already existent in gas stations and that the owners use different solutions. So with the partnership, there can be the possibility for smaller lead time, for greater competitiveness in terms of cost, for different solutions. And I have to show my franchisee that this is better than paying 5%, 6% of royalties. It's difficult to show that now, but we believe that soon enough they will be able to see that this is a possibility and then we'll have a greater reach.

Thank you, Leo. Now I'll let you rest, and I will -- like a question by Thiago Duarte from BTG again. Natalia, a model that is primarily focused on franchises is different from what the other 2 large players in the industry are doing. How do you see the strategic difference? And the partnership with LASA, wouldn't it be easier to -- or facilitate the expertise so you can run the owned stores? And Christian Audi from Santander is asking if you have any -- if we have any targets for this mix of our owned stores or franchise and street shops or shops in the service stations, new shops that could become part of it. And in the end, how do you think the mix will be, stores that are operated by the owner of the gas station or other types of operated stores? So we are focusing on franchises, but we also have the expertise to run our own stores. And what is the future for us? How do we see these 2 strategies?

I think the beauty of the market is precisely that there are different ways and strategies to win the market. So it is natural to have this different view. And this also has to do with the partnership that we're having. It seems to be something that doesn't make sense, but it does. We have just started the partnership, so we don't know what's going to be for this new company. But when we were talking about building this new company, they provide intelligence of our owned store, but they also talk about other types of structures that will bring value proposition and that can be a franchise model. In franchises, you must have a model that a business that is appealing to the franchisee, you need to provide the proper support and you need to work with the necessary structure to help the franchisee develop their business. So owned store is a need. So we know more about operational issues, and we can help franchisees further. But we also see that there are different models to grow in the market. Owned store is one of the models, not the only model. So we believe that there can be an option of having the franchisee independent from the owner of the gas station because if this is a well-structured business and we have an entrepreneur that wants to invest, we could have option of master franchise, and that's a format that we are betting a lot to grow in distant markets. And this is a model where we can get a company that has a good structure -- operation structure. We can help develop and launch the master franchise project. And the owned operation can be used as a basis for knowledge and support and for the operation. So I think what we're talking about today, what we've been talking through Leo, there's not just one path. We believe that there are many actions that can be taken together and that we are building to strengthen our proposal. The set of initiatives have to do with different operation models that will include owned stores but not only owned stores. We think there are other ways to grow faster as long as there are business solutions and formats of stores that serve different regions and cities, as Leo mentioned to you. So if we have star formats that are profitable and can be used in different places of Brazil, Vibra has reach. We are all over Brazil, small cities, big cities. We have different gas stations, and we have a huge opportunity for growth as long as we find formats that are good for the different regions. So if the format is not using just one model for the entire retail sector, but rather having a more modern offer, that brings the structure of the supply chain of intelligence, technology, digital that is brought by this partnership, we see that we have a robust proposal that will help us grow in different formats. And that's what we want. That's how we want to grow. We still believe in the franchise model as a model that is what will enable the growth, but not the franchise model that we have today but rather a franchise model where we'll have different initiatives, but of course, all of that to add value to the gas station because that's a synergic businesses, and we have to work together. The other thing that you asked when you asked about street shops and station shops, we see that this is a way for us to grow our business with LASA and Americanas. And it's on CADE, waiting to be approved. So we cannot share too much information until it's been approved. But Americanas has a local network, their convenience stores, but it's not a pure convenience store like we see. And our intention is that we get the local stores and we create franchises for that, and we grow this way. So within our strategy, growth strategy, there is a representative amount of local stores where we will grow using a franchise model in streets. So we will only be able to talk about the figures once it's approved, and we then can share more information about the figures, but there is a percentage of growth for street stores, both using an owned store model or a franchise model. I think I've already told you [anything], okay?

You did. Very clear, and I think it's clear for investors and analysts now. There is now an interesting question, and I think it's for Flavio. What is the CapEx of the flagging of the station network considering the new design? So he's asking specifically about the image change. So what is the CapEx when you think about modernizing the old gas stations? What's the goal? What's the schedule? And is Vibra trying to measure if after modernization there have been changes in the sales and average ticket? If there has been any, how much?

Gabriel, one of the assumptions when we structured the new Vibra image is that we had competitive costs. We didn't want to have higher [Audio Gap] And the average cost of our gas station is BRL 180,000. When we talk about the average is that we have gas stations that are large ones and we have small ones. So we know that there will be a cost. Of course, the last 20 months, we've been experiencing Brazil with COVID. There have been increases that are relevant. And we are doing negotiations with our vendors. And we want to have a more competitive process so that we can be closer to our -- to this goal of BRL 180,000. The other important thing, and this was a problem with COVID. We are following the growth and so on, but it's very difficult. 2020, we had diesel not suffering so much. 2021, we are seeing something different. We -- mobility is coming back to normal. Of course, for [Indiscernible] is still empty, but the rest of the country is coming back to normal. So what we believe and we -- I always say that is a concept of energy that we will provide to the end user, and this is part of our value proposal, of our communication of our brand of the culture that we want to implement at Vibra, this new culture. All of that and the counseling and the commercial -- the sales team going to the field, talking to the owners, listening to them and listening to their ideas for the business to be better and more competitive. So we do believe there will be gain, but I don't think I can tell you the figures. I don't think it would be fair to say -- to do that. But the proposition is quite nice, you saw in the morning, we acquired Targus. The gas stations will be a channel to Targus. So there are many paths that we're taking so that the Vibra gas stations beat the competition. But we know that competition is strong here in Brazil.

Flavio, I would like to ask you to add, do we have any goals of having all the network transformed to the new image?

Yes, sorry, I forgot to answer that. By the end of the year, we want to have 1,000 gas stations with a new image. This figure is not very good. We are discussing that every week. The pandemic affected this. The first new images were launched, one in each region of the country one week before everybody went home because of the pandemic. So this affected the process. So we want 1,000 gas stations by the end of September. September, October and November, we'll be discussing next year's budget. And we must be stronger, we must make the image present faster for end users. And I say that these consumers, they are not analysts. They don't work in the distributor. So we must do that, and the concept of the new image has to be available to consumers for them to say that Vibra has changed.

And I want to add to Flavio's answer. An important thing is that the expansion has to be done in a smart way. And in the strategic review process, the value proposition, an important thing we did was a new segmentation model. And then with this targeting, you can be more accurate. So regardless of the increase in figures and in the amount of gas stations, where it matters most we must be first. So for next year's planning, marketing, commercial, we must work together. We're designing an expansion plan in a smart way. We don't want to expand without taking things into account. So this is going to be important for us to expand this new image model where it matters the most. That's also important to mention.

Leo, we have a question from Frank McGann from the Bank of America. And his question is the BR Petrobras image in the gas stations, will it be capped or will it be changed to Vibra in the future? How is that? Explain it to us, please?

Yes. Great question. Whenever we launch new brand that's the obvious question. And the answer is, no. We want to keep -- we don't want, at least not right now. That's not part of the Vibra brand -- development brand for it to be in the gas station. We have a contract for 10 years that can be renewed for another 10. And it's important both for Vibra and Petrobras to have this brand. It's a strong brand, top of mind, with indicators that are high in our target. We invest a lot in the Petrobras brand. We involve -- we invest more than Petrobras, which is kind of obvious, because we are related to the end user. So we want to support this brand and keep it for at least these 9 years that -- which is the agreement. The agreement was renewed before it was privatized. So we want to keep the Petrobras brand on the gas station, but -- and also we are of aviation in the gasoline, in the lubricants, so we want to keep it. That's what we want to do.

Thank you, Leo. Last question to Flavio. Flavio, how do you see our relationship with the network? Last year, there was COVID. This year, there were -- there was a reduction in the volumes for the second -- when there was the second wave of COVID, it was a bit more difficult. So how do you see things now?

Thank you. This is one of the greatest challenges from Vibra. We've been in the market for many decades together with folks, and Vibra had this gap compared to the competitors. So in January 2020, we started to structure the PDO, new teams, the sales department, many people left the sales department. So when we assembled the team, there was COVID. And so many people went home, started working from home with the resellers. And this is not something that people adjust easily. People like to be around people. And we're very careful at Vibra, and we put health first. And many people are now, in the last 30, 40 days, going back to the field. And I think now we're better. And we are getting better day by day. But we still have to do a lot of things. I talk to lots of people every week, and the feedback I've received is quite positive. And -- I know we must improve. And when we get everything together our value proposition will see a huge difference because this was a gap we had in 2019. So I am confident that we're going to achieve what we want because I really believe in relationship in being together with people. I think with the vaccination, with the third boost for the elderly, with young people getting the shot, we'll be able to go back to the field and have a better performance.

Thank you very much, Flavio. It was very clear. So we are about to conclude this first session. I'd like to thank all the investors and analysts that have shared your questions. Of course, we don't have time to answer all the questions, but we will answer them. We will write you the answers and call everyone to clarify all the doubts. And just to remind you that within 50 minutes we will start the second session of today with another group of respondents here representing BR. So I'd like to thank all the participants that have answered the questions today, and I see you in the next session. Bye-bye. [Break]

Hello, everyone. Good afternoon. Welcome to this second session -- Q&A session. I hope you liked the morning session, and we shared a lot about our history so far and the results we have presented and what we see for the future in relation to this change in different scenarios and also what -- the work we have been doing in different sectors. So there are a lot of opportunities. We have heard some new announcements that happened this week about new business. So there are many things happening at the same time. And now as a corporation we have a series of new things that are quite promising. So I hope you liked. I'd like to share our agenda. And so we have this session #2 about Strategy, ESG and Finance. And we have the opportunity to discuss about energy transition, strategic position in ESG and the businesses within and outside the scope, ESG, more financial aspects, partners, debt management, tax issues, culture transformation and regulatory aspects. So there are many things that we can handle. We have received various questions. So now we have Wilson, our CEO; and Selma, who is our People's Director; [ Henry ], our Compliance and Legal Director; and Ana Paula Grether, who is the ESG, Head of ESG.

So I'd like to start with the question that you think is quite interesting that was done in the morning session, so I'd like to address it again, which is about the -- actually, it's a question to Wilson about the long-term plan that was very clear in the presentation according to [indiscernible] who wrote in, and he asks about the 3 or 4 main goals that we see to deliver in this time line of -- time frame of 3 to 4 years.

So good afternoon, everyone. I believe that the first important thing to say is that the strategy that we have shared is based on the energy transition process that we believe in it in a collective way. So we have to reposition the company during this energy transition so it is able to offer energy solutions that will meet the needs of our consumers. So I think we have started this process. We have shared some alternatives. But this is something important. The company can see something connected in the future to be the partner of our customers in this transition. This is an important legacy. The second one is related to the culture. In order to carry out this transformation it's necessary to work with people because we understand that cultural transformation, client-centered and also with the ESG agenda is a set of behaviors that characterize that. So we wanted to share that with you. So it's crucial to have this group of people that really represent the company. It's important for them to be happy with the work that they do. And the last one, as I mentioned before, is an agenda that works with ESG transversely. So we are starting business that can expand a lot, and we are working with our cultural traits and we are trying to achieve now [Audio Gap] targets. So the legacy that this will be noticed and acknowledged by the market has something valuable. So these are the 3 legacies that I would like to see that people in the markets will be recognized.

Excellent, Wilson. I do have another question that is important. We received from some people similar questions. I'm going to summarize them. About the last slide towards the end of the presentation that we talked about a 50% EBITDA increase by 2030, many people asked if this growth is real or nominal. So the objective answer, that's -- we're talking about real growth. So it's important to clarify some questions about these figures because some people had some doubts about it. The first one is to say that this is a real growth, as I mentioned, and the second one is to say that in the strategic analysis that we have done through a consulting company and we carried out a lot of analysis was a thorough analysis about the impact, and we discussed every single line of business. So we assessed our ability to position ourselves in different sectors. And of course, one of the output was the design of different scenarios that this transition can be -- can happen. So of course, we worked with different scenarios to tackle these uncertainties. Because of time and of course, the size of our presentation, we chose to show only one scenario, but there are many. And this is -- there was climate outcome with strong energy transition. And we have the other scenario that the energy transition happens, but at a pace that is similar to what we have been seeing in the past years, which is much faster. And another comment that is important to share is that this scenario, this 50% EBITDA growth in real terms, is just a variation about the business the way it is today but without any additional gains. This is just assessing -- this scenario is not an assessment of the EBITDA with all the gains that we want to implement. Just to give you another reference so people can understand, when we look at the initial scenario that this energy transition is not so fast, we -- of course, we don't incorporate the gains. This 50% becomes 70% of real growth. And then when we incorporate the gains that we have announced in the first quarter, second quarter and the follow-on, when we mentioned the A, B, C and all the things that we showed in the presentation and we incorporate that as well, these gains produce EBITDA growth of 85% up to 2030. And of course, it's much stronger. And taking into account all these possibilities, the figures are different, and it's important to position and talk about it because many people had some questions about it. So we do have a question related to this [indiscernible] wrote in and he asks is if this BRL 900 million growth in the B2C include or not the cost reductions? B2C is also done under the same foundation of the consolidator figures. That was -- is a real number. So that was the EBITDA margin. It's in real terms, in a strong energy transition scenario because B2C, it can have more [indiscernible] in the mix of products. And also, there is an issue that this does not cover these efficiency gains that we do with A, B, C. It's about these gains in the shipping, transportation costs, but it's not in that 111 number. That number doesn't take into account convenience shops, only petro stations, okay, without stores. So just to give you another difference so we can understand better the figures and how we were going to reconcile them. If you were to show this figure in initial scenario with the gains that will be captured with A, B, C, transportation, so on and convenience store so you can have a better comparison with today's base would have an EBITDA per cubic meter in the B2C of 135, not 111. So this 135 talk really well with what we have been saying about expanding our results to the near future. This 135 would be comfortable to a company work with 125. Just with what I mentioned, this is a reference of numbers. This effective number depends on where the market is heading to. And part of it, we don't have any control over, but this is a reference so we can understand the potential and the dynamics of what can happen. So we can see this figure more complete with the convenience stores and in the retail. So we talked about 175 in the consolidated of the company. So today, we have 105 in the cubic meters of EBITDA in the consolidated. And this number, if you add to all the gains for the next year, this will be at around 119, 120. And in 2020 up to • we have a small gain taking to a conservative approach to 125 up to 225. So this talks a lot with that, and this would be the average of B2B. Just to make it more clear, how these figures, what do they represent? So we don't mix things, and people get confused about it. This slide wasn't clear enough when it comes to being nominal or real, and it was what we were taking into account or not. So I took this opportunity to clarify that. We have a question here related to regulatory issues. We have this amendment that we mentioned, maybe if you could comment a little bit this issue. So if you believe or not that the real chances to approve that or not and people comments that there is more talking rather than the real impact, so they asked me to comment. And in face of the implications of prices, how this contribute to the government to find the right measures to implement in these areas.

Good afternoon, everyone. Andre, thank you very much for your question. Well, this impression that I can see in this question is because of a single paragraph, including 7, 8D of the amendment. This single paragraph gives some privilege to the contracts as a freedom of contract between the parties, especially about the exclusivity clause. They all have different clauses to promote exclusivity. So all these contracts that we have, they're all exclusive. So this amendment will represent that the [indiscernible] happening, and also this amendment is about 2 topics: the direct sale of ethanol and also to have a white pump in a flagged station. So it's important to say that Regulation that is about reselling our fuel is quite mature, and it's open to competitiveness. So we'd expect for you to have a white flag station and a flagged station. So the market is 50-50. So we talk about a white flagged station that has no distribution that can buy from [Audio Gap] inflation is also high and low range. Oftentimes, this is a more relevant factor than the margins, but it's more relevant for the refinement sector and also the reselling and distribution. So oftentimes, we don't see any risk of inflation pressures to undermine our ability to have better margins. This margin throughout the decades has been expanding in a very consistent way regardless of the scenario of the study. And we still think that it is true because the structural reasons that happened in the past are still present, and will be still here in the future. If you imagine, for instance, a scenario that oil exchange rate is stopped, for example, $70, $75. And in this kind of scenario, the need to give that to end consumers in the price of fuel is very small so we can't transfer inflation to the margins of the distribution sector because this margin is such a small fraction of the end price. So this will be preserved in the future, and I still believe in it. There is another question that I want to ask you that is connected and comes from abroad about the fund that we have just announced. And with the MOU with this company, will it create a real estate fund with 280 properties? And this fund would have 3 monetization moments and is a structure of the business for mostly following: a, monetization of the sales for this share for the Prisma that becomes our partner but -- and also the manager of this portfolio, and it's very important to have this management component to achieve success in this operation. This is exactly what we didn't have in-house because that's not our expertise and had no intention to build this expertise certainly. So to bring Prisma Company on board with a focused team of experts was nothing important. So the first -- this was the first monetization moment. The second one will happen through a -- through direct sales of some properties to the operators. And the third point, that is the listing of this fund when we then will give this or allocate these shares to the market. And the question is about how we are going to -- how would be the proceeds of direct sales within this fund? How they will happen when we sell that to the operators? Will it become directly to Vibra or go straight into the fund? This is a great question. And operation assumes that, first of all, we're going to show -- to offer that to the operators and those that show interest in relation to direct sales. We will do the sales before sending it back to the front. Of course, there are some tax issues. We will have to pay tax that is about real estate transactions, and then we could add that also after we work with the operator. In order to avoid paying 2 taxes, we're going to sell it directly, avoid these proceeds to go to sell directly -- avoid these proceeds to go through the fund. So within these agreements that we had with Prisma, there is a different rate related to direct sales, and then they also gain with us because real estate won't be in the fund. But then they are the managers of the portfolio, but they help us to remain this portfolio healthy.

Let's come back to the questions. I want to continue. We have here another question. And maybe Wilson can start and I can add to it. The person congratulates on the success of the event, on the achievements and in the cost reduction. Thank you. And the question is, are there future plans for us to continue in -- with this path to reduce costs and also to increase cash flow through the selling of assets, warehouses? So maybe Wilson can start, and I may add.

Thank you for the question. Our business -- our asset-light business has a very narrow margin. The previous question on the gas price, 12% is resell and distribution, 48% is the product and 40% is taxes. So on the 12% is resale and the distributors. So the ability to treat the pricing and inflation is large. But a company that has a very low margin, 4%, it must be very cost efficient. So yes, we will continue to try and reduce the costs. We want to have the lowest cost in the industry. That's how we guarantee we can have more competitive prices. And the same goes for the assets. If we have more assets than we need, we lose competitiveness. So this initiative with the 240 real estate is a winning one, but we have 700 real estate in the company, and we have similar initiatives and direct sales going to be done as well. And with regards to logistics, we have also identified that we have more assets compared to our peers. This will be optimized, and we have taken on the commitment with the market of decreasing it in BRL 1 million. So we will be asset efficient, cost efficient so we can guarantee competitiveness to our network.

Thank you, Wilson. We will definitely continue to be -- to search for efficiency. And after we cut down BRL 1.1 billion in costs, we did a deep work -- detailed work, and we could get to another BRL 450 million in reduction. This shows that we're not stopping. Of course, we're not going to be able to find BRL 1 billion every year, but the focus on keeping efficiency shows that we are focused and obsessed with that. There's a question here which is related -- there are some questions about that so I will try to get all of them together. The design of the industry of distribution, when we think about opening refineries, the white brand, these branded gas stations and the unbranded ones, what are the advantages and disadvantages? So there are a couple of questions, and I want to talk about the competitiveness of the large players and how can that have an impact when there is an opening in refinery.

And so maybe I can start, and you add to that. We see that -- we want to stress that we don't want to be producers in refinery. I hope I made that very clear in the morning's presentation. We don't want to do that. Likewise, we don't want to have the mill, but we -- like we announced in the ethanol trading, we are interested in commercial agreements and partnerships that can leverage our positioning using the value of our short in this industry. Thinking about competition. With the open refinery, there can be some opportunities because there was no huge difference in the market, the Brazilian market, because there was just one player for refineries. So the commercial negotiation with distributors had no competition. So when you sell to players that have more scale, that you have more security and long-term contracts, they're selling the product, gain efficiency, and that should be translated into the price. That's a market dynamic, freedom of prices, and we see that this market should reflect better. What occurs everywhere in the planet, right, where you have bilateral commercial relationships. And it brings value when you have long-term contracts, and you have price variation. So we have talked to several players, and all of them, we have seen that Vibra is a valuable thing for these players as a risk mitigator. And they want to have bilateral negotiations with us, long-term relationship, thinking about the volumes that will be made available to be sold. And these long-term contracts and these partnerships, we hope will bring advantages to our business from now on. So worse comes to worse, everything will remain the same, and it's important to reinforce that we don't consider these gains in our future projections. We are conservative, so we don't put any gains coming from that, but we feel that there can be opportunities from us in this opening of the refineries. But once again, we have this asset-light positioning, and we will have trade relationships with -- we won't have a direct participation in the equity of these assets. If you want to add something?

Yes, the essence of Vibra is to be customer-centric. We have 30 million customers every month, B2C, and almost 20,000 B2B. So we want to boost our clients. And the asset-light company, our asset is the logistics infrastructure. So using the power we have because of our production and being able to produce all kinds of fuels and because of our logistic efficiency, we can deliver to all customers in Brazil. That's our essence. That's what we are always going to do.

There are some questions here. I want to answer one, and then I'll ask Wilson and Selma to answer the other one. The first one has to do with cash flow use. We are generating cash flow, and so they asked us to comment the mix between dividends, buybacks, new investment. And so I think it's important to stress that for cash flow generation, we see a strong generation, and it's going to be even better in the near future. Up to 2025, organically, we have BRL 11 billion, including not only the CapEx, the infrastructure and the bonus that we'll be doing. And even on top of this BRL 10 billion, BRL 11 billion, probably, there is more generation of cash flow and also using our leverage. We closed the second quarter operating at 1.4. Yesterday, we paid BRL 720 million of total dividends. We announced the new [ JCQ ] so we have the buyback plan as well. So we are already operating on a leverage level that is higher, 1.6, according to the presentation. So gradually, we will have positions that will use our space. So when we think about operational cash flow generation and the leverage that we have, we see room to generate more cash flow or to have available even more than this BRL 11 billion for organic allocations that we'll have to do. And that's important because then we can deal with the new front that Wilson mentioned, the new businesses we're getting involved. Some of them, they are very capital-intensive [indiscernible] trading, especially ethanol. These are businesses that require working capital, more than BRL 1 billion of working capital. There are other things as well in the markets that we want to be part of, and so we'll have to make acquisitions and partnerships that will allocate resource, that will be capital intensive. But even so, there is room for our buyback to be very strong because cash flow generation and the leverage will provide room for that, according to our projections. And the choice between buyback or dividends, we'll have to do with several issues, the performance. We will only buy when we see that the price is lower compared to what it should be in terms of the stocks, and the dividends will be connected to an assessment to what will come from the tax reform because we don't know how much this will affect everything. But the answer, Christian, is that we want to balance these 3 things. BRL 11 billion is a good figure to be organic, and we think that the short-term allocations for the traders will require some balance in terms of allocation for working capital, and we'll have to allocate more than that for the new businesses. And finally, this year, we've announced and we have already paid almost everything. BRL 2.8 billion of dividends, [GCPs] and we have another the buyback, the amount of buyback. And if we did everything this year, it would be about BRL 4 billion of distribution to the shareholders, and we feel that there is leverage room to solve everything we need. So we are making the payments and doing everything we want to do, and we don't want to deleverage the company, but we want to gradually increase our position. And the other question that I will ask Wilson and Selma, it's from Duarte Thiago, and he's asking, we talked a lot about the opportunities that have to do with cultural change, with the scale, energy traction. What models -- or if we were to think about the biggest threats to the business model, what are they? So maybe Selma can talk a little bit about the cultural change. There's another question about it. And Wilson, you can talk about the risks because I think we talked a lot about the opportunities, but it's important to talk about the risks as well.

Good afternoon to all of you. It's a big pleasure to be here. The cultural shift, as already said in the first part, it's quite important because it brings a new mindset. We're sure that we have gone through a transformation journey with an impact in -- a positive impact on the outcomes, and we've been working with the mindset for this new organization. As Wilson always says, culture has to do with a new way of doing and being, and there's no right or wrong culture. We are here to build a new culture based on the needs for this true cooperation. So we are consolidating through a strong leadership work with the teams. We've built a trajectory with a program to develop leaders with an acknowledgment program with bonuses. So this is a way for us to engage all team members in the process. Coming back to the business, as Wilson said, Vibra is a customer-centered company. So the main link with our customers or clients is through our team members. So our team members have [Audio Gap] our purpose and principles so we can get to better results and that every year, we can present our work with people. So I think that's an essential pillar to our cultural development process. And now I'll pass the floor to Wilson.

Thank you, Selma. And talking a little bit about the risks, I think we would be at a high risk if we had not proposed this strategy. Our strategy is quite resilient. We would be -- it would be a great risk if we did not believe in energy transition. We're establishing scenario. And what we have shared in the beginning, they are very conservative scenarios. If energy or power transition is -- goes more slowly, the company is well positioned, is better positioned. But it's important for us to work for loyal competition. We have room to improve the competition. We still have tempering, fraud, problems with regulation, monitoring. And through the Combustível Legal Institute, we are working hard on that. There have been advances, and that's quite important. Loyal competition is important to us. The strategy we have is a winning one because it -- we put the customer in the center. We'll support the customer for all the options for energy transfer change. We'll make available all kinds of powers they need, when they need. That's an advantage to the company, and this makes this strategy less risky. The problem of our strategy sometimes is how fast you establish the scenario, and we have established ours in a way that is compatible with the -- all the growth scenarios. So it's resilient. And the third thing is that this is a business that -- because of our growth strategy, we'll go to a structure that needs to be managed carefully, and this is going to be important as well. But I think that with the defined strategy, we have more opportunities than risks. That's it.

Great, Wilson. There's another one for you, and I think you are the person to talk about that. It's from Maria Claudia. How the water scarcity scenario has affected the company? And what can we expect from the future? And if there is rationing, how would that affect the company?

The company has been unfortunately -- has benefited from that, unfortunately. We -- the company is based on fuel, right, fossil fuel and oil, and all these plants use that. So we have an advantage in the commercial standpoint. And I believe that this year we won't have a risk for rationing. The risk we have intermittent generation, especially wind and solar, and it could be modulated for hydroelectric power plant as the reservoirs will be empty by November. If the level is too low, we won't have the opportunity for modulation. And then we have the risk of blackouts. Yesterday, several measures were taken by the Ministry of Mines and Energy, encouraging, even financially, the reduction of use by consumers. And the bill will get more expensive, showing that we are under alert. This will have an impact, but to monitor the reservoir, that will have smaller volumes up to November, where we expect that there will be rains and we hope that the government is going to be responsible. And so this will bring benefits to the company. We know that the thermal generation will be replaced by natural gas. It's already part of the Eletrobras MP. But like I said, I don't see a risk in the short term for rationing. And in the short term and next year, Vibra will benefit from that. We have large volumes. And according to the measures that were presented yesterday, I would say that we have a reduced risk for rationing next year.

Okay. So there is one last question about these new flex plan. Maybe if you could give more details about the liabilities and the number of participants. This is the last question, as I said. And we had a [BD] plan. And also, we had a plan which is related to variable contribution to give the people the possibility when they retire to have a lifelong benefit created in actuarial risk related to it that constitutes part of that actuarial liability and that creates a huge passive and the risk because of demographic variables that would present deficit. Today, this plan has equation plan. We have even received some amount to solve this issue, and some beneficiaries not really see the full benefits. There are certain issues. But structure wise, the solution that we have today goes through the creation of a new pension plan that is -- has definite contribution or well-defined contribution. We have approved this plan in the Board and in our council, and it's under being analyzed in approval. So when this happens, it will no longer be a liability that is actuarial. It will become a financial liability with the possibility for us to pay for this liability upfront. It's just a financial decision if you're going to go for that or not. But again, it will no longer have this actuarial nature. We will analyze this accounting wise and chances are that's going to have a good impact. And nowadays, these liabilities recorded in our balance sheet based on the rules of IFRS and Petros, they follow all the rules from PREVIC that requests the figure that's different from what we have here. So chances are that during this migration process, we'll see a reduction in the amount of liabilities. Of course, we will analyze that with external auditors and consulting companies to have this external opinion. Anyhow, we expect to start the migration at the beginning of next year, and we can recognize that as we approve this plan here at PREVIC. And it will happen, hopefully, still this year. So we believe that the great benefit for this company to offer better pension plan that is more stable, safer and doesn't suffer many interferences. And we then ultimately reduce the risk in the future when it comes to this type of nature in our balance sheet. We have also many other questions, but we don't have time to address all of them, but our relationship channel with investors is always available to solve any doubt that you might have. Thank you once again, and we have the last session today. And I hope you have a great session ahead, and I see you soon.

Hello. Good afternoon, everybody. I am Joelson Fagundes. I am a manager here. And let's start with the Q&A session with regards to B2B, sourcing, logistic, aviation, lubricants. These are the things we're going to be approaching here. To help with the answers, we have here Marcelo Bragança, Director of Operations, Logistics, Sourcing and B2B; [ Glendis Caffé ] from Lubricant; Alexandre Tavares, Head of B2B New Markets, Energy and Gas; and Vinícius dos Santos from Sourcing.

First question, that is asking about the joint venture with Copersucar. It's Gabriel Barra who's asking. With the recent joint venture formed with Copersucar, could you detail better the role of each one in this joint venture?

Copersucar has 2 interesting logistic assets, Opla, that is BP and [Audio Gap] Vibra has been studying that for some years. When we identified that to capture more value in ethanol, we did not need to be in the production of ethanol but rather to develop a trading platform to move larger volumes compared to the volumes traded in our network, in our internal demand at Vibra. We carried out studies. We identified potential partners. And we saw that Copersucar was the ideal partner because it was the largest trader of ethanol and it had a relevant positioning. And we did this transaction and started this trader, that is the largest ethanol trader in Brazil, one of the largest in the world. In the first year of operation, we will transact about 9 million of cubic meters of ethanol. And all the trades of ethanol, be it with the mills from Copersucar, will be transactioned through this joint venture and from Vibra will be bought from the originating ethanol from other producers, and we will trade with Vibra and also with other distributors in the national market, and we will also explore the export market. This JV will use the asset-light model. We don't have assets in this joint venture, both Vibra and Copersucar, but it will be able to use the assets of the partners. So as an example, it will have access to storing ethanol, and these ethanol that is stored -- these tanks are at Copersucar. And it will be used by the joint venture for its strategies of loading and unloading and from the different crops. And logistic agreements will be operated by this joint venture. So Vibra has agreements to transport ethanol through [indiscernible]. This contract will be operated by the JV transport agreement. Same thing with Copersucar. But share participation that other companies have will not occur in this case. Opla is a logistic terminal of ethanol storage in Paulínia. It's BP and Copersucar JV. The JV may have agreement to store and transfer through this terminal and [ separate ] these agreements. And the share participation of Copersucar at [indiscernible] doesn't make -- is not part of this agreement but the agreement of Copersucar. And the -- and Copersucar and Vibra will be through this JV. And we want to find synergy and [Audio Gap] leverages that generate value in our trade ethanol.

Good afternoon. It's a pleasure to be here with you, sharing some information about this project. I will be back on the question that asked about logistic assets. To talk about the first leverage, one of the most important ones is logistics. We believe that getting these 2 players together and the unified trading of the assets will bring synergies, allowing us to manage better the assets, to use them more efficiently [Audio Gap] to ethanol will be sold to Vibra and other customers. So that's the first value leverage. That is important for [indiscernible]. The other one, the trading, the time to buy and sell the product. This is a very dynamic market because of the season, it's price variation. And so decisions on when to buy and sell, they are essential for the business. When we get together, the expertise of Vibra that knows the consumers' market well and what consumers want and Copersucar that has knowledge and expertise on the producers, the supply, we believe that bringing [ these ] together will help us make good decisions on buying and selling timing. And the third leverage that we consider as very important is that their import and export in the external market, we have partners. But when we do things together, we believe that we'll be able to make better decisions, develop new markets both for imports and exports. So these are the 3 leverages that we generate value with this JV.

Wonderful, Vinícius and Marcelo. Thank you. Frank McGann asks -- of the Bank of America asks the next question. And he's talking about natural gas. Natural gas, in addition to trading, there are -- do you see other opportunities for growth and expansion?

Thank you for the question, Frank. Obviously, we have studied a lot on our positioning with regards to gas. It is a transition power for us in our journey to decrease our carbon footprint. And within the analysis, we have identified that maybe the best way for us to be would not be the distribution. So gas distribution, we have one in Espírito Santo and [indiscernible]. And we want to explore the trading, and the trading will be explored both for off-grid clients, those that are not part of the grid, and those on-grid. And then I'll pass to Alexandre Tavares for him to talk a little bit about the opportunities for biomass and to talk about the possibilities and the discussions both for on-grid and off-grid clients. Tell -- share with them our strategy for gas trading.

Good afternoon [Audio Gap]

[Audio Gap] So the next question is about hydrogen, and it comes from Regis Cardoso with Crédit Suisse. Would it make sense for Vibra to participate in this value chain? Is it a commodity with interest for Vibra to be hydrogen producer or not?

Thank very much for your question, Regis. It's not what we want to do. Now we have been talking to some potential manufacturers. Some companies have expressed that they want to work with the green energy in Brazil. We might be a potential huge green hydrogen producer, but what we have been discussed with some of these players and we have signed some memorandums of understanding, to position ourselves as an offtaker of this product to put it into the market. So we have been having some discussions about the green hydrogen and also HVO and also biokerosene for aviation that is environmentally friendly, so -- also some projects and initiatives to produce in Brazil and in South America. And our position is as an offtaker, Vibra has a clear perception that we can do this connection in efficient way and competitive way between the producer and the demand of the consumer because of our ability to relate well with more than 80,000 B2B clients and our ability to manage this relationship to add services to the products we sell and the ability to provide credit to these clients. So our vision is more as an offtaker to add this energy in a competitive way with our clients.

Thank you very much, Marcelo. Next question about lubricants. What are the measures that are implemented in this lubricant segment to achieve BRL 100 million EBITDA in 2020 (sic) [ 2022 ] versus '20? Can you explain this figure? Gabriel from Citibank. So Kleber is our head of the area about the work we have been doing in the past years, how we have been working with this figure and how we'll deliver this EBITDA for 2022.

Thank you very much. I'm going to concentrate in the detail of this program that was said this morning for the corporation as a whole. So now talking about the business units, we have -- the main initiative is a better -- to buy better, sell better. So just to give more details about it, when it comes to sourcing, we go from a bids model to a partnership management with our suppliers and highlighting the basic oils, which are the main lubricants inputs, we import them directly and also the relationship with the greatest international players that produce and manufacture base oils. So we have managed to get more competitive when purchasing these inputs. When it comes to additives, which is a technology that is in the product line, we started to form some partnerships with the main additive companies that are also international [Audio Gap] and on top of having this competitiveness, we can look ahead and be sure that we'll still be up to date in terms of technology used. We are [Audio Gap] through neighboring countries, and we use this concept in different regions of Brazil, have moved forward or progressed more than 20%. And we have seen already some positive results with the [legislative] road map and working with our value chain of our products. So we have extended our lubricant plant, and I would like to show you the 3 main pillars of this modernization and expansion plan. We're talking about a great possibility to receive base oils and also improving the platforms to receive more varieties of this input. We're also expanding the [ ability ] to use with automated warehouses. This is the only company that has equipment like this one so we can expedite products in a faster and more efficient manner. And of course, the core of the new factory is the new mix system that is fully automated, and it reduces waste and improving efficiency in manufacturing phase and ultimately reducing the costs [Audio Gap]

[Audio Gap] so now we have 2 questions from different people. Looking at the infrastructure assets, how do you assess the ability for Vibra's terminals? What will be the priority areas in which locations? The second question, can you detail disinvestment plan of these 25 logistics assets?

Thank you for your question. Now first of all, Vibra has built this infrastructure [Audio Gap] so we carried out a thorough study to find some bottlenecks and also idleness. Even with market growth for the next years, we could change the operational model of some of them without losing the ability to capture this growth and avoid loss in the quality of the services. So today, we move volumes that can increase 20% to 30% in general when it comes to these assets. So we have a plan to expand that. Some of them happened this year. So 3 assets will no longer be invested. We have concluded 2 transactions and should disinvest at least through these years. And for the next years, we will conclude this disinvestment or change our models. In some cases, we are going to expand the use of these assets, offer part of them to third parties so we can move that jointly. Having said that, we are also aware it is to reposition ourselves logistically-wise. As I mentioned before, after the Brazilian market opened, selling refinery and [ expanding ] our trading activity and create a trading structure, we have to position ourselves at some point to originate molecules both domestically and abroad. Vibra today has 8 entry ports of products coming from external markets. So we are currently expanding and pay attention to the market dynamism or dynamics maybe with the penetration of biofuels in the matrix and development of refineries or maybe the economic growth in the agribusiness regions that request a lot of fuels. So now we are currently implementing export infrastructure in Santarém in the northern region, that comes with imported products. In [indiscernible] Santarém will be the next ports hub to receive other products that will allow us to support this supply -- this type of receiving of products and maybe taking these products to the Middle Eastern region in Mato Grosso where the agri business is located and maybe can increase the production of corn, ethanol production and biodiesel that is very strong in the Mato Grosso state. So we have been reinforcing this infrastructure, focusing on accessing the molecules from local refineries and from external markets in a more competitive way.

Thank you very much, Marcelo. Next question is related to a change in this refinement park. So how Vibra has been assessing the process of disinvestments of refineries and what are the opportunities that are assessing success cases? Would it be possible to have better contracts in terms of costs, deadlines and flexibility?

I'm going to start answering about the strategic part. We understand that Petrobras to sell refinery is very important to improve productiveness and change the dynamism of negotiation for Vibra with its logistic structures to get one of these opportunities. And this connects to the process to increase our trading process. So I'll ask Vinícius to answer that. He leads these negotiations. And he would tell us about this progress we have made with trading. So he can talk about the negotiations with our new refineries and also how this connects to this new external market, this sophistication of the trading sector.

Thank you very much, Marcelo. Well, our transformation here at trading creates an impact. It's quite impactful. So we have been trying to change the activity coming from this sourcing outlook to supply trade that is more integrated, pay attention to all the internal market opportunities and external opportunities, so we can be more efficient and have more scale and, of course, promote more competitiveness in the products Vibra sells. So we can see this as an opportunity to sell our refineries, an opportunity for us to be a good partner for the suppliers. We can see that we can be great partners to sell the products from our suppliers, from the refineries. So today, we work with more than 30 international suppliers. So we have a trading project that is quite ambitious in a sense that we are currently developing different skills, risk management strategies, systems that support our operations. We're seeking to be aligned with the best international and domestic practices. So our goal is to carry out the trading operations and making them very competitive, [ stepping into ] the best opportunities, both domestically and internationally. We believe that there will still be room for the Brazilian market to export. We really want to play a prominent role. We were good importers last year. And within this scope of this trading activity, we will be more efficient at a larger scale. We have done monthly exports operations that went above 340 cubic meters in amount of gasoline and diesel. So we have a very robust infrastructure to support this business. And there is still room to grow. So we are constantly looking ahead to be aligned with the best international practices.

Thank you, Vinícius and Marcelo. The next question is a continuation. It's import system. It's from Andre, and how the downstream market -- as it changes, how do you see the import activity? Do you think there is room for import players with no verticalization in this market? And how do you see some independent players leaving this market? These changes, in your opinion, have implications in the competitiveness for smaller distributors and for white flag gas stations.

Thank you, Andre, for your question. Indeed, what we see is that those that have a trading business, as the Brazilian market advances to keep up with the parity of the international market through Petrobras or for other refiners, it will be more connected to the international market. There will be some arbitrage that will be done but smaller scales. So we see Vibra well positioned to navigate well in this new environment because we have large volumes that have been traded and hired. We have an infrastructure that is placed in the main entry points for these products. And a large amount of this infrastructure is already -- has gone through depreciation, which is different from a player that is coming to trade and doesn't have that. And we have a geographical presence that enables us to arbitrate and to move these molecules from one point to the next with the regional variations, market variations. So we see a larger room for a company such as Vibra because we have all these features. The market here becoming closer to the international market and guaranteeing our parity will enable opportunity for other players. But the possibility to capture value on that is larger in a company such as Vibra. As I said, we are well positioned with our logistics, volume and with the trading activity. A lot has already been done, but there is an important evolution. And we understand that we can take to our clients a different competitiveness when we think about the future of the Brazilian market, especially with the selling of the refineries and with a market that becomes more connected to the international market.

Thank you, Marcelo. The next question, and I'll get another 2 questions together, [ Marcelo Gane ] and Leonardo Marcondes' questions, because they are related. And we'll talk about GNL. You said that the opportunity to sell this gas to corporate clients that are off-grid, how would that be done for the consumption of these clients? So I'll pass to Alexandre Tavares to answer that. He is responsible for gas and energy. Here.

Our positioning, we want to be a trader of natural gas. This is a clear positioning in both on-grid and off-grid. The question has to do with off-grid. So we want to bring small-scale solutions that may help connect producers with the end users. And this is basically through trailers and containers where you can take the liquefied natural gas that is less than 62 Celsius. So this -- you can use this type of transport for this liquid gas. And in the client, you put the tank so it comes back to the natural state as gas, and then the end user can use it. With regards to the technology, it's widely used for this kind of market, and most of our clients are off-grid for the gas pipelines. So we can take this product to clients that want to buy it. Some want to change the fuel oil and other biofuels.

Still talking about this topic, Alexandre, the question is the gas trader, does it bring competitive advantages to Vibra when you talk about on-grid? So how would we stand out in this case?

That's a good question. We are already talking to some producers the reach of Vibra, its sales force and the capacity for credit, the company is able to acquire and trade the product. When we talk about some consumers, that's quite possible. And when we talk about many consumers managing them, managing the agreements, the credit to the market, this brings a competitive advantage. And so natural gas producers will be interested in having a partnership with Vibra because we are a large player, and they would want to trade these products with us.

Talking about partnership, Gabriel Barra from Citibank wants to know about the partnership of [ GV ] and ZEG. This partnership brings a new avenue of growth for the company. So he wants to know more about the strategy of the business and how each player will be positioned. Will Vibra be able to trade gas from other producers, other technologies? Or is it just with ZEG? Can you tell me more about the technology of ZEG? How many projects use this technology? And if they are also developing the technology to produce biogas with filter or will they only focus on the stillage?

Well, it's quite a complex question. I'll start with the partnership, and then I'll let Alexandre talk about the technology, the products, stillage. Biomethane is a new product in the market. It's completely renewable. And some technologies have been explored to foster the production of biomethane. And we've identified at ZEG a company that is focused on this partnership and the agreement we had with them. And we wanted an integrated solution for the production of biomethane in sugar and ethanol. And so we have access to their -- the national park that produces sugar and ethanol. So 60 groups of producers, 300 mills and ZEG with this technology, with the agreement, we will be able to take to the producers the whole package. Through the stillage that they produce, they will be able to see the potential production of biogas, of biomethane, and they will be able to identify how much can be consumed by the mill, reducing operational cost, the market around the region, and so the production can be decentralized. ZEG has the technology for engineering and developing, and they can define the model for the placement in the market. So we are interested in connecting the production of biomethane to the consumer market. So it can replace liquid gas, diesel. It can be added to the natural gas network to complement. So we see that as a first step to foster this product, identify the projects and then start developing them, generating value both for the producers because we will address the stillage. This is one of the products that are generated in the ethanol production, and the ZEG-Vibra partnership will be able to monetize the biomethane production in the market. And I'll pass the floor to Alexandre so he can talk about why we are focusing on stillage and how we see this technology.

Right. To add to what he said, ZEG has their -- has a proprietary technology for management. It has 3 projects, 2 ongoing and 1 in the conditioning stage, that adds 30,000 of cubic meters a day of biomethane. And it has another 4 projects that can add about 200,000 cubic meters of biomethane. With regards to the technology, as they have the facilities operating, it's a proven technology in terms of visibility. We ran joint analysis. But our focus is in the stillage. It can use the filter, and the analysis showed that we want to take a solution to the producer, to the stillage, and we want to acquire the biomethane to be placed in the market.

Marcelo, there is another question related to that. How are you going to get money being the middle person or being the intermediary for the selling of biogas? How does that work?

The preliminary studies show that the biomethane can replace several products, LNG, biodiesel. It can complement natural gas. So it's competitive according to our analysis. So it can be placed in the client in a competitive way. So we need to develop the projects with competitive costs in these units that produce biomethane. And that's the secret of the partnership with ZEG because they have the proprietary technology that has a low operational cost to produce biomethane. And we can monetize 2 ways. Vibra and ZEG can access and trade the access to stillage with the producers. We may invest and trade the biomethane or there's another model where the ethanol producer will be part of the investment in the facility that will produce biomethane. They can use part of it. And after that, Vibra using its reach and the access it has to the market, and this is the same with the natural liquified gas. We have associated services, and we can trade other products, lubricants and other types of power to this client and help them be placed in the market in a competitive fashion both for Vibra and for the end user. And this must make sense. We would be approaching or addressing an issue to those producers.

Thank you, Marcelo. Alejandro Demichelis asks, recently, one of your competitors faced significant loss in the trading of electric power. How do you manage the risk for your trading initiatives for electricity and gas?

I'll pass the floor to Alexandre. That's a good point. And I think that's important so we can talk about the trade of other products, ethanol, our electricity or power trader. We have a policy for risk management that's very well defined and clear. And when we talk about electricity, I'll pass to Alexandre Tavares because he will talk how we mitigate the risks, how we manage the risks and how we prevented the losses. We didn't have that at Targus.

Well, this year was a more critical year for the energy sector in Brazil. We have been suffering a water crisis. And we can see the difficulty to work with the reservoirs. And in face of that, the [ process ] reached its threshold for the year, and some traders, big traders, have been reporting some issues when trading energy. So in our Targus energy company, we haven't checked this type of recurrence because of 3 factors. The first one is the risk policy. We adopt value anti-risk methodology with low exposure to markets. Another policy that is quite used is the credit policy. Every week, we assess all the contracts, the purchase and the sale contracts and when it comes to that counterpart. And on top of that, we assess the ability or financial ability to -- people to pay their commitments with Targus. The third point is the business model that we have implemented here at Targus, which is a model that we -- seeks to sign long-term contracts for renewable energies, so wind and solar energies, so we can serve our end consumers. And this produces less exposure. In other words, we weren't exposed this year. This was a good test in relation to our policies that were implemented here in our company, and we haven't seen any problem in relation to this topic. And Targus till the end of the year will present some great results -- I mean, the first year with the participation of Vibra as a very important shareholder.

Now a more B2B -- another B2B question about the progress when you're selling oil fuel. So in face of the COP green, how much of the volume we can maintain? And also this thermoelectric can compensate this green product? Do you see any expectation that these pre-pandemic values are back in '22? Or this will be phased in '23 or '24?

When it comes to this coke product, now these numbers should be at 25% or 1/3 of this amount, so 100 tonnes per month, and we are [ expanding ] the imports of products, so we are importing coke in 4 different ports to compensate this volume reduction and capture different values. So when it comes to the thermal plants, they have been showing some really good volumes. And the same thing that happened in July. So that's what we expect for the third quarter and for the next months. So we're talking about an additional volume of 200,000 tonnes per month of oil fuel and more -- 340 cubic liters of diesel. So 300,000, 400,000 tonnes per month, that should generate per quarter a gross profit of BRL 180 million per quarter. So this is the best visibility that we have in face of the water crisis until the end of the year. So of course, in the end of the year, you go to a humid season. And that will depend on the amount of rainfall and also the capacity of the reservoirs. And you can see also wind and solar energies in our matrix and see how much energy that will be produced. Also gas, thermoelectrics and so on. So it's too early for us to have a forecast about the volumes for next year. But it's certain that -- or very likely that we start to see the level that the reservoirs are right now. The next year, we will see another level that is not strong that can contribute to the Vibra's results that have contracts with these thermoelectric plants. Another important topic to monetize this is to export oil fuel. So we start to import it. We're importing that regularly, trying to add more value to Vibra within this operation every time there is a dispatchable generation. So we have seen an increase of our volume. Since April and July and August, we had 15%, 20% below the same period of 2019. So it's a precrisis period. So growing volumes, we expect that in '22, for the second quarter, if everything goes well, especially when it comes to the economy but also when it comes to the vaccination and the pandemic, we may be operate in 2022 close to these volumes pre-pandemic looking back in through 2019.

Thank you, Marcelo. Thank you, everyone, that showed interest in participating in this first Investors Day. Thank you, Vibra Energia. Thank you, [ Ms. Kleber Caffé ] that helped us to answer the questions in this session. So the questions that weren't answered, we are going to answer all your questions. And it was a great pleasure to be here and spend some time with you today. You'll also receive a survey, satisfaction survey, so we can improve our events. And this -- our team is always ready and available to help you to understand and solve doubts and clarify some points that might not be answered. So thank you once again on behalf of Vibra Energia. And thank you, everyone, and see you soon. [Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]