Village Farms International, Inc. (VFF) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Thank you to both of you. So what, I'll start here, Michael, we'll start with some introductory comments for those who are not so familiar with the company, tell us about Village Farms. Let's start with that, Michael.

Okay, Pablo. Yes, we basically have 2 business segments with very strong synergies tied between the 2 of them. Cannabis to start with, is about approaching 50% of our overall revenues in the 4 years since we launched retail sales in Canada. Our vision has always been for the highest quality consistent flower production cultivated with at the lowest cost of production. And that allows us to invest in our future growth. We feel very strong that this model has been proven out and is our first competitive advantage in Canada. Our base is Canada currently, although we're expanding. And consistently, I'd say, over the years -- over the last few years, we've been a top 3 licensed producer by market share and profitability. There's always some ebb and flow based on seasonality and other factors. But overall, we've remained in the top 3 position, north of 20-plus quarters positive EBITDA, recently converted to positive net income and positive bottom-line cash flow as well. The other thing I think that differentiates us is we've built our footprint totally organically. These are assets that Village Farms had. We didn't build any new assets. And while our growth has been organically with the exception of one acquisition in Quebec, which I can talk about later. This I think has benefited our shareholder returns. We have a very strong underlying DNA and controlled environment of growing over 3-plus decades, which comes through in our cannabis companies and very strong and getting stronger in consumer insights, customer consumer insights. Branding and innovation is a huge focus and becoming even a bigger focus. We've learned a lot in the last couple of years. So we're building additional competitive advantages we believe with the focus on the consumer. Beyond Canada, we have a profitable, maybe one of the only one CBD business in the U.S. It's an online business. And we're expanding our cannabis business overseas, which I expect to see a strong growth contributor over the next couple of years. Exports markets out of Canada for medicinal cannabis currently Australia, Germany and Israel and having some other countries very near future. And we're 1 of the 10 license holders in the Netherlands for what will be the first large rec market in the EU. So we're very excited about that. The outside of our business, besides some other derivative companies in clean energy and whatnot is really our produce business with 30-plus year history of growing. We sell retailers throughout the United States and Canada. We have great partnerships with other Canadian growers that grow with us exclusively, both in Canada and Mexico as well. It's the strong synergies between the 2 businesses mostly drive the cultivation that we've learned over many years. So I think the proof for our businesses is in positive cash flow. Our balance sheet at the end of the third quarter with the combined businesses, we had a net debt of $13 million, which I think is one of the best in the industries across the board. So I'll leave it there, Pablo.

Thank you, Michael. Stuart, go ahead.

Sure. So Decibel is a ready-to-consume focused business. And what I mean by ready-to-consume is, products that are effectively ready on the go, consumers can grab and kind of consume in any setting. What we're trying to focus on is this trend of convenience within consumer packaged goods where people are ever increasingly becoming more busy and constrained for their schedule. And so as a result, they're looking to products that not only provide additional value like pre-rolls and are able to be readily consumed in a social format or while you're walking to your next meeting or whatever you're planning on doing, but also allow for additional differentiation, control and quality and consistency. And so that includes vapes, standard pre-rolls, infused edibles. We think these are the products that have significant tailwinds behind them, and we'll see largely outpaced growth relative to the broader cannabis market. We're doing that with very proprietary operations. So we've invested heavily within our infused category, learning how to create kief automation that allows us to produce [Technical Difficulty] in pre-rolls at scale on a monthly basis. And we believe that provides not only a competitive edge from an operating standpoint and generating excess margins relative to our peers, but also allows us to have a very strong competitive position in market, being able to produce at that scale with a number of differentiating factors that make it stand out on shelf. And that's translated directly into extremely strong share. So being top 3 over the last year or so in market share, being the leader within the pre-roll space and being either #1 or #2 within the vape category. And so we've seen a tremendous amount of success, but look towards future growth catalysts to grow the business even further. So notably, we have a number of distribution points that we believe we can expand to within Canada. We also believe we have a highly concentrated brand portfolio today, where typically, we'd want to target more of an audience over time that doesn't necessarily get catered to with our existing brands. And so we believe those are great avenues of growth. We have 2 cultivation facilities that produce high-quality craft cannabis that are also geared towards international export where we want to establish brand equity in the short-term and ultimately create a platform to bring these ready-to-consume products in and the rest of our brand portfolio as these markets go through maturation and ultimately create vapes, infused pre-rolls, standard poles and edibles available to their customers. Lastly, we think that the U.S. creates a tremendous opportunity. So while we're not in it today, it's a market that we're seriously exploring. And we believe with the competitive advantages from our infused process where we have a significant amount of IP, some of the proprietary products we produce with us just launching a closed-loop technology for vape in which we believe it provides a better consumer experience and solves many of the vape part failure challenges we see in market today. We think that creates another extremely strong avenue for growth. How that translates? The company is about $120 million on a run rate basis for net revenue. We've had 4 quarters plus of free cash flow consecutively. We've done over 3 years of adjusted positive EBITDA. And we've seen a positive adjusted net income and earnings per share consistently over the last few quarters. So we think that this business with its competitive moats that we're trying to build up while trying to position it for future growth is extremely attractive in terms of margin profile that outperforms many of the peers within the space. The profitability and free cash flow that's a necessity to succeed within a very challenging market in which there's a tremendous amount of pressures facing many of those in the industry. And we think Decibel is extremely well positioned for all of these things to create shareholder value long-term. So I'll pass it off back to you, Pablo.

Thank you, Stuart. So Michael, just moving on, 2-part question. One, maybe indicate the 3 main challenges you have faced in the Canadian recreational market and what you have done to adapt. There is a question also for the audience here, discuss the company in terms of your competitive position in rec, your business mix, growth momentum? Touching whatever you can share here in terms of brands, price segments, mix of formats, regional penetration and just overall momentum the way you see it?

Sure. I mean, there are good things and not so good things. There are challenges, as you said. I mean, some of the good things is Canada -- I mean, you have to really say it was a courageous move by the Canadian government as still the only major country to do so with legalization. Currently, we feel pretty good about the growth rate, high-single, low-double-digit growth. Market estimate for Canada were 31, 32 around 1 million people at $8 billion, half -- maybe a little more than half is -- has cannibalized the illicit trade thus far, and I think that's pretty impressive. There's still a ways to go. We see consumers becoming more sophisticated and responding to innovation and newness, which we like. That will help create some brand equity in the future. Retail is developing, growing awareness for assortment and so on. So those are some of the positives on a challenging side. While the market has been oversupplied, it's gone on for years. We took an approach in the company with the challenge of saying, what can we change and what must we accept. When you look at, for example, the amount of fees and taxes in the Canadian market is really, really difficult to punch through that and be profitable. So that coupled with the fact that there's been a huge oversupply, we had to remain patient, knowing that at some point that oversupply would start coming down. I think we're first finally seeing some indications just very recently in that supply plateauing and starting to come down in these other -- the difficulty of operating with a not just a very regulated industry, but with the tax and fee burden I think is putting pressure on a lot of LPs. So we see some adjustment coming in the future and really needs it. The other thing that's challenging is really illicit market. As I've always said, policy is great, but it only is effective if there's enforcement. We really don't see enforcement of the illicit trade. So of course, their advantage for not paying any fees or taxes being able to cultivate with no restriction on pesticides, it's a huge advantage. So that's one thing. And as I mentioned with the taxes, of course, we hope that the tax situation would eventually evolve to be more at the level of alcohol. But as I said, we accepted the situation. And honestly, in a way, this is personal. I'm almost okay with it at this point, at least for a while because it is thinning the herd. There are many companies that really aren't paying their excise tax. And I think it's going to help provide some realignment in the marketplace. The other thing we find challenging is just the proliferation of SKUs on the retailer shelves. There are so many -- some provincial boards are being much more myopic in their viewpoint and trying to work and get the whole system working. So we're not out of stock. And I think that is improving, but it's been a bit of a challenge as well. So I'll leave it at there.

Yes. So Michael, I'll come back to you to dig deeper in terms of the business mix, but we'll stay on the challenges part for time being. So Stuart, your answer on the question on the 3 main challenges.

I think probably the first major challenge that we see is the degree of competition that historically has been irrational in terms of pricing, in terms of spend and capital put towards facilities and equipment, in which companies are not operating in a profitable manner, but at the same time, it's forcing everyone else within Canada to compete on the same terms. How we've tried to combat that and what we think is ultimately beneficial for the industry is it's creating a pressure cooker of innovation. So everyone is trying to invest as aggressively as possible in automation, find better ways to produce more effectively, enhance quality for the consumer and ultimately pass those savings along. And so I think while it's been incredibly challenging and it's also created maybe negative sentiment towards the cannabis space, I also think at the end of the day, it creates a far more strength in the industry once we come through this cycle. And at the same time, our customers are benefiting greatly from it and we're very pleased for that. I think the second piece is really the regulatory challenges that have in part shaped some of the illicit market. So again, I think I'm very courageous, as Michael put it, for the government to be the first to federally legalize. And I think there's a lot of learnings that you have to take without having a road map that already exists for someone to follow. But I think the illicit market ultimately has not had the ability to compress over time as a result of some of the restrictions that we see in certain provinces for products that are unavailable or milligram caps for edibles. And some of these things that in theory sound great in terms of providing health and safety to the customer, but as we know, there is an illicit market that they can tap into and ultimately get the same product. And so far better to have it within a legal framework where it's properly governed as opposed to be, again, putting risk within the consumers' hands. The last challenge that we've seen is excise tax. Again, with how we see it shaped specific to our products and how customers enjoy their cannabis products. We're taxed based on milligrams of THC for any extract-driven product and consumers want high potency. And so that's a recipe for disaster where you see 45%, 50% excise tax as a percent of gross revenue. And it does make it very challenging to create profitability. And it is even more so challenging from a cash flow standpoint when you have to typically pay that excise tax in advance of getting paid by the government. So that creates a very challenging cash flow cycle that licensed producers have to navigate constantly. At the same time, again, turning it into a benefit I think that creates a very incredible economic moat in the short-term where if you want to go and enter these categories, there's significant capital required. You need an existing engine that you ideally have free cash flow elsewhere to provide comfort or you want to avoid the space altogether. And so while I think excise tax reform at some point in the future is likely to happen, again, I think anything in the near-term may accelerate further rationality from what we've seen to-date in competition. And so I think beneficial that it takes a few years.

That's good. Stuart, I'll stay with you. If you can, in terms of what you can share maybe more color for the audience here in terms of your business mix in terms of formats? I know you talked about really to consume price segments where you operate, regional penetration. Are you more -- are you in Quebec? Are you over-indexed in any provinces? And remind us of your main brands. And then we'll -- yes, give some color there.

Yes. So our 3 main brands are General Admission, Qwest and Vox. General Admission is our mainstay brand. That is #1 within Canada on an aggregate basis. Qwest is a craft positioned premium brand. And Vox Popz we recently launched. And that value proposition is to provide optionality to the consumer. Those 3 brands are represented by a variety of different products. General Admission largely being infused pre-rolls and vapes and edibles. Qwest is craft premium flower and standard pre-rolls. And Vox is what we think are akin to Camel Crushes, which we can see in the U.S., but they have a flavor bead within their filter that you can pop and ultimately transform the experience of the pre-roll that you're consuming. What that comprises is roughly 70% of our aggregate gross sales being infused pre-rolls. Again, that's supported by very strong excise taxation on these products. The secondary component is about 25% vape. And then the remainder is standard pre-roll, craft flower and the new Vox pre-rolls that we've launched more recently. That's our domestic business. We also have international channels that represent about 4% to 5% of our overall revenue. That shipment of craft quality cannabis to which we see good white space opportunity overseas for high-quality product. And then lastly, we have a small portfolio of retail stores that's non-core. That represents about $2 million a quarter in sales.

Understood. Michael, I have some specific questions on Village Farms. But more in general, for the audience here, it seems that initially you've been very focused on flower, but you've also been expanding to other formats. Maybe tell us the history of VFF in terms of thinking about formats where initially maybe the focus was mostly in flower? Just a brief answer and then we'll move on.

Yes. I mean, clearly from the day 1, we've been very focused on flower. And as you know, flower was very dominant. It still is, but coming down. I mean, for -- in a lot of ways, we consider pre-roll part of our flower category. But obviously, for discussion purposes, we segmented out. And overall, that was our flower first strategy that we had, including one brand, Pure Sunfarms for the first few years. And even recently, I think just last month, we returned to the #1 flower market share, #2 overall, more or less. There's a number of companies that are tied in that top 5, so there's fluctuation. But we can see the pre-rolls, infused pre-rolls, mill product, all part of our flower first strategy. So internally, we look at that as just different derivatives of flower. And that's not to take anything away from the newness and innovation, as Stuart was talking about, that needs to go in. And I give a lot to Decibel, they've done terrific. But we feel very confident in our flower, our strains, how quick we can maneuver, how quick we can look at newness and additional strains that now we've focused much more on pre-rolls and vapes. It was a slow start for us. We made some mistakes, no doubt about it, but we've corrected those and we're very excited where we're moving to today. So on the segmentation, and those are really the focus going forward, flower, pre-roll, vape. We're really not interested in consumables, edibles at this point or beverages sort of focus.

But just staying on the flower side of things, like you said, it used to be mostly a one brand, one strain, right? Pink Kush, very dominant as a percent of revenues and then the Pure Sunfarms, now you have a multi-strain strategy, multi-brand strategy, maybe expand on that, Michael, a bit, please.

Well, because you were always -- and I recall we had a -- you talked about the fact that we were one brand strategy all the time. So I would give you credit for pointing us in that direction. But all seriousness, I mean, we wanted to be #1 in flower, and we felt under the Pure Sun brand that we achieved that. But then we said, let's -- we felt that the market -- consumer is going to segment. It's going to be a switch to value in certain provincial areas. And eventually, that may be driven across all of Canada. So as we looked at that, we decided we'd have to come out with our value brand, which was Fraser Valley. It's not just putting different -- we're not sweeping the floor. We grow specific strains for our Fraser Valley portfolio, and it's done very, very well. And then we went to sort of a premium, not super premium with our Soar product we launched a year ago. Of course, the premium market is a small market, but it's somewhere we want it to be. And then recently, we went with our Super Toast brand. It's addressing the ready-to-go segment. It's done very well as well. So that's just on the Pure Sunfarms side. On the Rose LifeScience, as you know, that's our Quebec company. There's a number of very strong brands there in the Quebec market. And also expanding to some of the other provincial areas as well. So we feel like that portfolio of brands for us that target different segments is very strong. That coupled with our aggressive role in newness tied to strains. We want to clearly know what we're going to be launching in 2026, not just in 2024, and we're focused on that. But I think our brands are in a good position right now and we'll continue to drive it with innovation in the product category.

And just staying with flower, Michael, I don't know if it's a proper analogy, right, but I could say maybe Pink Kush was a Budweiser of the sector, but maybe the consumer has moved away from that strain or that potency, and please correct me if I'm wrong. And then in the context of everything you're doing with new brands and expanded strain portfolio, are you still aiming for 20% flower share on a nationwide basis?

Minimum. So when I look at that commitment of 20%, so we look at the 20% market share, both for brand and non-branded products in Canada. #1, we have the assets to do so. We have the assets to actually produce close to 40% of the Canadian market. Not that we would be turning all that on, but we do have the capability without building any assets. So that's #1. #2, I certainly see the 20%, if not more. Again, we work with a number of folks, some companies have switched to a light asset model. We love to drive cash flow because the way the capital markets are today to drive our expansion, including in Europe and other international markets, it's about generating positive cash flow. We're able to do that with our B2B business. And then when you combine that with our retail business, we see getting north of 20% of the future. So yes, I would confirm that's still the target for us going forward on the flower side. Pink Kush has been great for us. I mean, there will -- as much as there's newness and the consumer is always looking for new strains, I think it's fair to say in any consumer product, you'll see some stickiness. I'm not saying these brands will be iconic in any way, but they do stick. Pink Kush is one -- our Pink Kush is one of those brands as well. In fact, through our cultivation, we have an incredible grower team, I think as you know, and we've been able to even get the TAC value there at 26%. And that's right in the sweet spot of a number of other strains. So I think we're happy with the Pink Kush. It's showing some stickiness. It may be around a very long time, but it's not taking anything away from our content innovation with the new launch of strains going forward.

And then last one in terms of -- you mentioned the other -- many other licensed producers going asset-light. Back in the day, I think you used to talk about your wholesale business in terms of B2B supplying out LPs as being more opportunistic, but now it seems to be strategic, right? It's part of the overall strategy. And I guess that market is getting bigger for you as other companies go asset-light. Maybe expand a little bit on that.

Well, I think it's no secret that, as Stuart has mentioned and we all know, it is very difficult. #1, we've been cultivating for 35 years. And I've always said it's not that we're smarter, it's just that we've made all these mistakes and we did it with all the crops. Remember, we started with cut flowers and roses before we did produce. So for us, cannabis in a way, from a cultivation perspective, is another crop. They're all difficult. They're all unique. And we were able to leverage. That's the DNA we talk about within the company. So on the cultivation side, I think it's pretty clear we got it right. I think a lot of companies couldn't get it right, whether it was the wrong asset, wrong location, too expensive, too high tech, all these things that happened. And at some point, when the capital markets dried up. And I think today it's fair to say, there really is no capital available at least in the Canadian market and very little traditional debt. So these -- a number of companies have decided they will just pursue a light asset model, which is a model that you would see in normally mature CPG brands as well. And for us, that's an opportunity for us because where else are we going to get the capital to grow? And if -- does it take anything away from us creating our own or strengthening our own brands? It's on a parallel track. So yes, that's an opportunity for us for sure.

Understood. Stuart, just specific questions on Decibel. Maybe expand on the success in pre-rolls. Your consistent market share gains -- I think based on the HiFyre data, I was doing the math, you have more than 50% share of the infused segment. Just color in terms of what explains the success in pre-rolls? And if you can contrast your business in pre-roll with some of the other leading players in that segment specifically?

Sure. Yes, we started out infused pre-rolls more than 2 years ago and it ultimately wasn't a success when we first started. We encountered a number of challenges from being able to create consistency in the product, quality factors that went to [ Ryan ]. Ultimately, it was a big learning lesson and probably took 6-plus months of just constantly R&Ding new types of products and how we can create it in a streamlined fashion. When we first started, that was an 11% margin product and we could probably produce 100,000 in a month maximum with insane labor force that took up the large part of our facility. As we continued kind of working through, I think one of the first critical pieces was us just trying to constantly get feedback from as many consumers as possible to figure out what best formulation works, what flavor profiles work and how we can create a formulation where it burns more like a cigarette in a slower fashion and providing more effective value than standard pre-rolls that burn at a quicker rate. And so there were a bunch of learning lessons as we went along. One of the things that we were very adamant in early was having a kief coat application on the outside. So in our view, it allowed for kind of less canoeing of the pre-roll. It provided an additional aesthetic that makes the pre-roll look nice to the consumer. And there's, again, perceived value because you're providing kief on the outside, which should add to the THC in potency that they are otherwise getting. And so we stuck with it and shows that we're going to take the hard path of figuring out how to automate this product and make it successful from a margin standpoint and ultimately be able to scale into it. And that led off about 2 years' worth of trial, innovation, purchasing multiple pieces of equipment. The typical hearing, this machine has this capacity and finding out it's 50% or less than what it actually is. And so having to deal with all those challenges I think it gives you expertise in that you've made those mistakes, you've learned how to address them and you're constantly going through that iterative process. And so where we're highly successful today is learning from all those mistakes. We can now produce about 3.5 million infused pre-rolls on a monthly basis with automation in-house that's been custom-fitted and has a bunch of proprietary knowledge that's exclusive to Decibel. We've created the same from a formulation standpoint, which is hyper complex in creating a substance that is homogenized, goes through automation equipment in a consistent fashion and allows that automation equipment to actually produce in a consistent way. As we know, these things are viscous and batch-to-batch are always varying. And we've stuck by the quality parameters that we set from the get-go, which is kind of that 37% plus THC range, flavor for products that aren't focused on traditional cannabis, but instead focused on exciting new flavors like Tiger Blood or Peach Rose or some of the additional suite that we've just launched like Pink Britney or Grapey Grape. And so I think that's really catered to success and creates a moat that I think is difficult to encroach on. So having to make those necessary investments, the R&D, all of the mistakes and learnings to get to the same point we are today just to be able to service that level of demand in market is already a steep hill to climb. At the same time, we've created a tremendous amount of brand value that I think is insulating us well. So we're the #1 recommended brand by budtenders. We have a 97% approval rating by our customers. We see high repurchase rates on new customer trials that I believe is 45% to 50%. And we see high attachment rates where if we have a product in another category with General Admission, a consumer is more likely to buy General Admission than not. And so when we look to our competitors, certainly, we need to be eyes wide open, keeping an eye out on what they're doing, constantly trying to defend against anyone who is trying to step in and take share in the pre-roll space. And some of our main competitors would be kind of Motif, Tilray, who have high profile kind of positions within these categories and good brands. Where we think we're differentiated again is kind of all of what I've just mentioned. Tilray seemingly is more so standard pre-rolls through Redecan. And Good Supply is certainly starting to get into the infused space, but we haven't seen kind of a major penetration to-date. And so we're continuing to try and just find those marginal areas of improvement from a cost standpoint. We believe that all of these points of differentiation will get replicated over time. So it's all about brand equity to us in the long-term.

Understood. And then a similar question I guess with vape. Your performance -- you are also one of the leading brands here, General Admission, but the market share performance has been a bit more erratic. Maybe just some context there. And if you can share anything that you're doing new like, Blinker Closed Loop? Just brief comments on vape.

Yes. I think there are 2 factors. First off, we missed out on kind of the large format disposable trend where you're seeing a shift of consumers towards 1 gram sizes. So I think that's an area we need to look harder at. Equally, we see a consumer trend towards 1.2 gram cartridges. And so there's a perceived value in terms of the size format being greater than a gram even though the potency would still be about on par. And so certainly, we acknowledge. We missed out on those 2 trends. And that's something that we're going to rectify very quickly. But we ultimately believe 510 carts are an undifferentiated products. They're very hard for the consumer aside from brand to be able to identify different value propositions. And so that led us to launch the Blinker. We think we addressed some of the primary issues. So we have smart pod technology that realigns heating coils according to the type of oil that's in the pod. So it's controlling for a better smoke and less clogging. And then equally, it has dry wick protection technology that prevents burning or any sort of issues that could be created by not having a fully saturated wick. And so that will shut the machine off and make sure that it gets saturated before you consume. Where we think that becomes successful is, again, if we're solving a problem, we're creating a higher quality experience. And at the same time, it has a custom battery that we've built to be able to meet that mark. We think it creates more consumer stickiness and we're trying to price it the same. So it's priced exactly in line with our 510 carts. And we are doing a very big program nationwide on our batteries right now. So if you buy pods, you can get the battery effectively for zero and/or some nominal value. And so we think that gives a lot of incentive for consumers to switch to our system and at least give it a try and then let the product speak for itself. So we think that that's how we're ultimately going to defend our position as well as getting into disposables and 1.2 gram cartridges in Q1, but we're big believers in the closed loop system and what it can achieve.

Look, we want to move the discussion now to the export markets, but before, one for you, Michael. Maybe investors haven't given enough credit to your Quebec strategy, right? Yes, Quebec is a smaller market, less per capita consumption, there's more restrictions there. But Rose LifeScience has given you an entry into that market. I say this in the context that the more we delve into the provinces, and we published a note on this, this morning, they are quite different, right, and we realized that in Alberta and British Columbia. Pre-rolls as a category are like 12%, 13% -- in the high-13s as a percent of the total market compared to flower in the mid-high-20s, right? Nationwide, it's a different story, but that's partly influenced by Quebec, that doesn't have these derivatives 2.0 products and where flower is almost like 2/3 of the market. So sometimes we have to divide Canada and look at it by province. Quebec, obviously very heavy flower market, almost 2/3 compared to high-20s for Alberta and British Colombia. And then prices in Quebec we realized that they were almost double, $8 per gram compared to $4.5, call it, in British Columbia, Alberta and even Ontario. So Quebec seems like it's been the right move for you, but just a bit more color for people to understand the rationale of that deal and how it's working out for you, Michael, if I can add that in terms of Rose?

Sure, Pablo. So this is biased. But I think when I look at all the acquisitions that have been done in Canada over the last 5 years or so, the whole Canadian landscape, I believe our acquisition of Rose LifeScience in Quebec was the best acquisition on Canada. It was a very accretive move for us. Getting in Quebec is very different, as you know. So you have French County, you have English Canada. It's very -- first of all, it operates very differently. The SQDC in Quebec really runs from the Health Minister where it's a Finance Minister in most of the other provinces in Canada. So it has a different viewpoint. That's one of the reasons of the restriction on edibles and pre-rolls and such. And that's a decision that the provincial government made. It drives flower, which is where we shine. That may change in the future. And with the focus -- we're putting tremendous focus on these other categories. We'll be patient in Quebec, but when that starts to come around, I think we'll be well positioned there. The management team at Rose is a phenomenal management team. Just since we've done the acquisition, they've gone to about a 16% market share. As you know, Rose has a different business model. They distribute in Quebec for some other LPs. That combined market share is very high in Quebec, representing a number of different LPs along with their own production. They have their own indoor production and work together with Pure Sunfarms as well. So the original founders remain with the company. And they are now penetrating some other markets as well. So very excited about Rose. I think it's a little bit of an isolated market. I think if you're not in Quebec, producing in Quebec, operating in Quebec, it's very difficult to get in that market. So we're really proud of the team there. And we feel very good with the acquisition we made.

Understood. Mike, I'm going to stay with you and we'll move to the export markets. Typically, when we look at dollar sales reported as exports, Tilray, Aurora tend to be the 2 largest exporters from Canada, but it seems to me that Village Farms is catching up quickly. Maybe expand in terms of your strategy for the actual market, what markets are you in and what assets you own? You said something at the beginning about Holland, you sound very optimistic about that. We saw that Aurora actually got out of Holland. So I guess, they have a different view of that market. But just an overall export strategy, Mike.

Well, I can't speak for anybody else, but I mean, we -- so we are going to be very, very aggressive. We believe that what has made us in the top -- one of the top companies in Canada, we can leverage that up internationally because at the end of the day, you always see price compression in the market, and I think you always see it no matter where you operate. So we're not interested. We're not going to pursue any medicinal market within Canada, but this is all about export for the medicinal market in these countries. Canada is in a great position to do that. We are EU GMP certified. I don't think there's many companies in Canada that have that. It took a long time to get there with COVID and all, but we're finally there. We're exporting and have been to Australia, Germany, Israel. We will be adding a number of other countries on the horizon here very, very shortly. So our focus is to work with a number of different strategic partners in each country where they have the assets, they have the distribution. Our goal there is to supply them with quality flower and any other products we can under the medicinal banner from Canada. Big focus. However, on the other side of that coin, where there's a rec opportunity, and Holland being one. And by the way, some folks may have pulled out, but there's only 10 licenses. We have one. It's just getting underway. We are anticipating beginning production in fourth quarter next year. And we're very excited. We may take a very vertical integrated approach in the Netherlands. So where there's a rec market where you can't export, that's where we would leverage up our cultivation ability and go in, and we're doing that in Holland as the first country. So a couple of irons in the fire internationally and we're very excited about '24, '25 there. And let me just say this too. I mean, we are really an American company. You could say internally that Canada was our first international expansion. So back on horizon, we monitor what's going on in the U.S. every single day. As you know, we have 6 million square feet of high-tech greenhouses and what we deem probably overall the best growing area in the United States. We think the U.S. market is sort of an experiment based on one day looking at comprehensive legalization. So we're going to be patient with that and focus on the international too. We see some clarity in the U.S. going forward.

And do you supply in Canada, other Canadian -- on a B2B basis, other Canadian piece for them to export your product? Do you do that or do you try to avoid that?

We don't avoid it.

Okay. All right. Stuart, just on your export strategy, how you're working about that?

Yes. I think it starts with the success that we've been able to drive in Canada. And so when we look back 3, 4 years ago, how that originally started was a halo of factor is what we call it, from our Qwest brand. So premium craft flower and it was one of the few in the space at the time. And that afforded a lot of reputational benefit as we launched General Admission in a core category for a much larger consumer audience. And so as we worked with provincial boards, retailers and even consumers for that matter, General Admission got an incredible amount of early-stage distribution and trial. Again, quality is really necessary to have that product take off long-term. But Qwest was really the inroads to launching that brand successfully. And so as we start to look towards international markets, we're taking an asset-light approach. Decibel's entire business model has always been create demand first and then invest around it second to expand our margins. And so we continue to do that and mitigate against any sort of risks. But we want to create brand equity with Qwest in these markets where predominantly they're flower or standard pre-rolls. But as we see these markets start to ease restrictions and introduce derivative products, that gives us a platform to bring General Admission and many of its high-quality products to these countries. So we're in Israel as of today. We signed an agreement to enter into the U.K. and we expect to do so in Q1. And certainly, Australia and Germany are on the horizon as well. So that's kind of progression overseas. Again, as I kind of spoke to in the U.S., we see that market as hyper-attractive. We're big believers that size and scale over time will create an economic moat, to which you spend very aggressively towards competitive activities like sales, marketing and distribution to defend and create brand equity. That is what we believe the long-term moat that these -- that all cannabis companies need to strive towards. And so to do that and grow at a pace that keeps you in that position, we believe that the U.S. is fundamental to achieving that. And you need a position in the next 5 to 10 years so that once you hit that inflection point, as you see global growth and conversion to recreational cannabis, you're well positioned to compete very effectively. So we're exploring that as of today. We believe we have a great position from our infused intellectual property and vapes. And so that's something hopefully we're in 2024.

I want to stay on that topic, Stuart, but let me just jump to Michael for a minute. So Michael, the way I understood what you said is that in terms of the U.S. strategy -- in terms of cannabis, not CBD, but cannabis, someone will hold until we get line of sight on regulatory clarity or could you do something more radical in the near-term if nothing happens in terms of [ fairer ] level reform? Some companies would say, well, maybe I'll give up my NASDAQ listing, go and acquire an MSO. I mean, not that it's so simple, you need the resources and the market and all of that. But I mean, is it fair to say that your U.S. strategy cannabis is pretty much on hold until we get fairer label reform or could you do something even earlier in terms of what you can share?

I'm not going to say, Pablo, we won't look at anything. We've always taken the approach that we're not going to burn funds or capital or shareholder -- risk shareholder value till we know what the playing field clearly is. The reason we didn't go into Europe; when we look at to scorch the earth in Europe of so many companies that went there prematurely, building assets, it just blows our mind that that happened. Now we're going to Europe because the playing field is very clear in the Netherlands. It's starting to really shape up in Germany and the other EU countries are coming around and now we're going to be aggressive about it. We waited. We were patient. That's the approach. And it's the same for the U.S. It's our home market. But what's going to come down -- is it safe banking? Is it descheduling? What does descheduling do? There are some -- and what are the capital markets going to do? So we just don't want to commit to anything until we know what the playing field is. But the optionality we have, because I believe -- totally believe in the long-term that no matter what market you're in, the U.S. is no different and the largest potential that it will go to large scale, low cost. It's the winning formula. That's what one is winning in Canada, as you could see today. And the optionality we have of assets in the -- when you look at Canada, how many assets were built in the wrong location, just that alone, and they were the wrong assets. So putting the right assets. We have a phenomenal growing team that's been around for 35 years, not to mention the depth in management. Having this one footprint like we do in British Columbia, one footprint of massive greenhouses that can be converted. Yes, we're in a state that's the most conservative state, but none of this is necessarily going to happen tomorrow. Interstate commerce is already happening even though it's not legal. So that's what -- when I say the U.S. is still somewhat of an experiment, it really is because the game is going to change. Current MSOs that are operating 30 different production facilities because the law -- the way the laws are, they have to in multiple states of varying technologies, you're never going to get your cost reduction low. And of course, today, they have the margin because it's sort of talk about a stewards and a moat. They have a moat around a certain state, be it the limit of license state or not. When that changes, I believe the model is going to change. So that's where our position is. But we're never going to say we won't look at other opportunities, including M&A in the marketplace.

Just to stay on Texas, just for those that are not so familiar. I mean, these are large produce greenhouses, like vegetables that you could convert to cannabis. Explained to the audience, there are large scale cannabis facilities already in Colorado, California that are operating. In your case, you have to convert them and make them operational. We're thinking in the future when we have interstate trade why should investors -- explain to investors why they should understand that your Texas greenhouses could be winners in that market compared to some of these facilities in California or other places?

Right. Well, it starts first with -- most importantly is we have almost 30 years of growing knowledge, data knowledge, cultivation data, climate data. That has proven in British Columbia, and Delta British Colombia being invaluable for us, how quick. We were profitable from the first quarter we produced for the wholesale market, the first quarter. And in that first quarter, we only produced for 6 weeks. And it not only made the quarter EBITDA positive, made the entire year, 6 weeks -- made the entire year, the year we converted that. That same model in Texas with existing assets and existing team, which is so important. It takes 5, 6, 7 years to ramp up a large-scale greenhouse. Growing at scale was very difficult than growing on a small footprint. Secondly, the location. We are at the same location as Boulder, Colorado and Southwest Texas. We don't need supplemental lighting. We don't need the capital cost for it, the operating cost for supplemental lighting. We have adequate lighting. Our location is the lowest latitude at the highest elevation of the continental United States. Third, Texas, even though it's a conservative state currently on cannabis, it is the most business-friendly state of all. I couldn't sleep at night to think I would operate a business in California today with the restriction there, honestly. So there may be some pockets of climate in Southern California that are great. But when you look at operating in California, I get the chills over that. So we love our position there. We love the optionality. And I believe at the end of the day, consumers are looking for the best product, best quality at the lowest cost. It will mature to that level. And growing in the northern states, indoor with a huge overhead, huge cost, huge energy, it's just not -- it's not viable to me in the long-term. So we love our position there. And in the meantime, we operate those facilities. We're in a produce business. But ultimately, we want to be #1 in cannabis in the world. I mean, that is our goal. And we're very focused on cannabis. We're not doing other things to distract ourselves from that.

Understood. Stuart, in terms of what you can share, you did touch on your U.S. strategy, but you are listing in the TSX Ventures. Maybe you have more flexibility than those listed in NASDAQ. What can you tell us about how you're thinking about the U.S., again, in terms of what you can share? And I'm sorry, before you jump -- I mean, it seems to me that when I look at your prices for pre-rolls in Canada, which of course are sustainable, you are profitable, that's what you reported and you have the #1 position in pre-rolls. Your prices in Canada are lower than in the U.S. So you seem to be in a great competitive position even versus the U.S. But -- and I'm talking on mature U.S. states. But again, what can you share about your U.S. plans?

Yes. So I think it's leading first with infused pre-rolls. You hit the nail on the head. We have extremely low-cost production in which we're very consistent and high quality. I think like very much echo Michael's thoughts in which you have required certainty over a market before you invest in it, but where we contrast is that we don't have the challenges of a large-scale cultivation facility where it's a significant investment and time to ramp up. And so while they're equally very well positioned from having existing facilities, we think we're very well positioned from having kind of low CapEx in which we just need a room to operate and a couple of hundred thousand dollar pieces of equipment as well as suppliers to make this work. And so that's where we look towards attractive markets being hyper-competitive. We love those markets where you have a proper commoditized B2B marketplace in which we can procure key input and ingredients for our products. But we're not trying to be the grower, and that's not our expertise. What we try to do is focus on the proprietary manufacturing pieces that we think make our products differentiated and allow us to get into market. And so we prefer to stay away from limited license markets, not only because we think that there is a high risk of decline in new entrants coming in who can undercut substantially, but also just because there's not an active B2B market for us to successfully manufacture. We're exploring a broad array of opportunities, whether that be M&A, organic growth or some form of partnership or joint venture. Frankly, it's a very similar environment to Canada. There's a tremendous amount of underutilized space, distressed companies. And so that's where we see the biggest opportunity to come in without risking any sort of significant value and look to some sort of trial in one marketplace or more as kind of the initial path. Equally, it could be looking to get tap into a player who is already existing and has expertise and distribution and a business established and being a very significant synergy as a part of that business. So we are very early stage. We are just starting to explore these options and run them to ground. But I certainly see that as kind of the next leg of growth for Decibel.

Look, I do have some questions on the chat room. I know we're almost out of time. I think some of them -- most of them have already been answered. But a very quick answer, Michael, someone is asking about any update on the sale of a smaller greenhouse space in Texas in terms of what you can share, just brief answer?

No update yet on that. But if I'm just going to close as a couple of comments. I just want to be clear on Texas though. Texas is the second largest populated state. It's almost the same population as Canada. So when you just look at the Texas market alone, it's estimated currently at $9 million and it will move along and 10% of that market is significant. I think it's the last frontier in the U.S. as a major state that's going to go. Coupled with that though, I just want to say that we have 35 years in controlled environment of growing and produce. And if you look worldwide, CEA controlled environment of growing of selected produce is the future. In certain markets worldwide from the Middle East to Asia, it's on fire. It is here in North America. In order to grow and be successful, you have to be able to do it in a very efficient and sustainable way. And there is no greater sustainable way of growing than growing in high-tech greenhouses. And you see now the entire berry market starting to move in that direction, including strawberries, blueberries, blackberries, additional produce. We're in that space. So we think we're in the best position in the United States with both those businesses going forward and we have the assets to do that. But anyway, I just want to thank you for thinking out of the box and highlighting Canada. And Stuart, as he said and Village Farms and Decibel are a couple of companies that are showing that you can be profitable if you do it right in the Canadian market. And I'd like to think it's like what Frank Sinatra said, if you can make it there, you can make it pretty much anywhere in Canada. And I really appreciate the opportunity to talk about that with you, Pablo.

Thank you, Michael. Stuart, closing remarks, and thank you for joining the panel today.

Yes. Thanks for having me and certainly very appreciative and proud to be standing beside Michael as one of the few LPs in the space who has done exceptionally well. And it's a very exciting moment for Decibel to be included within that. I think this industry is starving for capital. And I think what you're finding now is people are going through that innovation cycle, and there's going to be survivors and not. And I think what's critical as you look towards this market and you think about where you're investing your capital or who you think is going to be successful, you have to think about starving a business for multiple years. Free cash flow is critical right now to continue to invest and recognize that growth. And I think we're one of the -- we're 2 of the few companies who are in that position who are still growing, still demonstrating great results and that's affording us further opportunities into the future, whether it be in Canada, which is still an incredibly attractive market in its own right, a bunch of these rest of world opportunities as we start to see legalization or the U.S. with new channels to enter these markets. And so I think we're starting to see really that positivity come through from my standpoint in what the cannabis industry could be and trying to shake many of the negative sentiments we've had towards it in the past. So it's very exciting. Again, very proud to be sitting here beside Michael as 2 of the stronger companies within the Canadian landscape. And thanks again, Pablo, for hosting.

All right. Thank you, Stuart. Thank you, Michael, and thanks everyone for joining.

Thank you, Stuart. Good seeing you. Thank you, Pablo. Much appreciate it.

Thanks, guys.