Vinci SA (DG) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Vinci Q1 Revenue 2025 Conference Call. I now hand over to Gregoire Thibault, Head of Investor Relations of Vinci. Sir, please go ahead.

Thank you, Eiley. Hello, and thanks for attending this conference call. I'm today with the Investor Relations team and Marie-Amélia Folch, the Group Controller. As usual, I will be brief to have more time for the Q&A and because I know there are other publications and con calls for you this evening. What are the key takeaways of this Q1 publication. First, a solid performance overall to start the year with total revenue up 4% to EUR 16.3 billion, mainly driven by international, which is up 6%, and international represents more than 56% of our total revenue. Point number two, for Q1, please keep in mind that for Concessions, traffic is up year-on-year on motorways and on airport. For the Energy Solutions business made up of VINCI Energies and Cobra IS, a dynamic international momentum and a good order intake in flow business. For Construction, stabilization of revenue, as expected, at a high level, while order intake of VINCI Construction are up. I will give you more granularity later. Point number three, the group's order intake are down EUR 2 billion versus Q1 '24, but no worries that due to high comps at Cobra IS. Indeed, recall that the order intake in Q1 '24 included 2 offshore wind farm energy converter platform worth EUR 2.5 billion. Adjusted for these orders, order intake are up by almost 4% this quarter with a buoyant flow business level. As a result, the order book of VINCI reached a new all-time high of EUR 72 billion at the end of March, up 8% year-on-year and up 4% versus December '24. It represents more than 14 months of average activity, 14.5 months to be exact and to be fair, and that's a record visibility giving the group serenity and enabling it to remain selective. Point number four, regarding the financial position, we have are serene as well. The net financial debt of VINCI at the end of March amounted to EUR 21.3 billion. This is a quite limited increase of a bit more than EUR 800 million versus the end of December 2024. Despite the traditional increase in working capital requirements at the beginning of the year, as you know, which is in line with the normal seasonality this year. Limited increase of the debt, despite the M&A spending this quarter, in particular for FM Conway U.K. acquired by VINCI Construction in late January 2025. VINCI's liquidity remains substantial with a managed net cash of EUR 11.8 billion and EUR 6.5 billion of RCF. As a result, we such a sound financial position, VINCI is well prepared to go through the current economic uncertainties in the world and ready to continue to deploy its capital allocation strategy, these pillars are investing on existing assets to extract more value, M&A and development and our strict capital discipline and of course, an appealing and a recurring cash return to shareholders through dividends and share buyback. Let's now have a closer look at the main businesses. For Construction, revenue is up 8% to EUR 2.5 billion, of which VINCI Autoroutes EUR 1.4 billion, up 4%. Traffic in Q1 was up 2.1%, of which light vehicles was 2.2% and trucks plus 1.6%. That growth reflects easy comp, traffic having been disrupted last year by the farmers blockade and on the other hand, negative calendar effect in Q1 '25. For VINCI Airports, revenue slightly below EUR 1 billion, plus 12% and plus 9% like-for-like. You have already seen the traffic figures, which confirmed the continued rise in passenger numbers in almost all of the network's 14 countries. Many airports for example, those in Portugal, Mexico, Edinburgh and Budapest achieved record passenger numbers. In Japan, passenger numbers continued to recover above their pre-COVID level due to accelerating growth in travel with China. Overall, VINCI Airports pax numbers were up 6% in Q1 '25 versus Q1 '24. Energy Solutions made up of VINCI Energies and Cobra IS, the revenue totaled EUR 6.6 billion, plus 6% on an actual basis and plus 3% like-for-like. That growth was driven by business outside France, which grew by 7.5% on an actual basis and by 4% like-for-like. This start to the year confirms that companies of VINCI Energies and Cobra IS have strong positions in dynamic markets driven by the energy transition and digital transformation. On top of these beneficial trends, there is a positive effect of the recurring flow of acquisition made by VINCI Energies to strengthen its geographical coverage and bolster its expertise and which can be seen as quasi organic growth. VINCI Energies, in a nutshell, Q1 revenue, EUR 4.8 billion, plus 5% actual, plus 2% like-for-like. All 4 business lines, that's Infrastructure, Industry, Building Solutions and ICT, contributed to this growth. Outside France, that's 57% of the total for VINCI Energy, revenue was up 7%. The trend was particularly positive in Germany, which is VINCI Energies' largest market, aside from France, contributing revenue of more than EUR 3.4 billion in 2024 and EUR 0.8 billion in Q1 '25. That's 11% more than Q1 '24. In France, revenue of VINCI Energies was up 2%. Order intake for VINCI Energies consisting mainly of small- and medium-sized contracts this quarter, order intake was up 2% in Q1 '25, with an impressive new record high of over EUR 22 billion on a rolling 12-month basis. Order book amounted to EUR 18 billion plus 11% year-on-year and representing more than 10 months of average business activity. Finally, please note that VINCI Energies, our acquisition and integration machine remain active on the M&A front, having completed 11 acquisitions this quarter, representing a total annual revenue of around EUR 80 million mainly outside France. For Cobra IS, strong revenue growth of 8.5% to EUR 1.7 billion, on plan with our guidance. In flow business, that's 57% of the total, revenue rose by 4%, in Spain, in Latin America and in the Rest of the World. In EPC projects, revenue increased by 15%, 1-5. This trend is due in particular to the ramp-up in Germany of the HVDC converter platform project and the ramp-up of the construction of the first LNG terminal of Germany. Remember that this project are absolutely strategic for Germany's energy independence and sovereignty. In addition to this positive trend of HVDC, it should be noted as well the contribution of the project of high-voltage transmission lines in Brazil. Order intake for Cobra IS. As I already told you, they fell due to high comps. Meanwhile, it's worth mentioning that order intake on flow business kept on increasing. This order book amounted to a very high level, above EUR 17 billion for Cobra IS, that's plus 2% year-on-year. It's a very high level that represents more than 2 years of average activity. And those of you with a good memory will notice that this order book is more than twice its level when we acquired Cobra IS 3 years ago. VINCI Construction, Q1 revenue was EUR 7.1 billion, plus 1%. Outside France, that's 53% of the total, revenue rose 2%, thanks to recent acquisition in the U.K. and in North America. On a like-for-like basis, revenue contracted by 3%. In more detail, business levels rose in Continental Europe, Africa and Oceania, but fell in other regions. As already mentioned in our previous press releases, revenue from large projects fell slightly due to phasing issues with some projects being completed, while others were only in the startup phase. In France, activity was slightly down, minus 1% like-for-like. In detail, we note that firm business levels in roadworks, hydraulic and rail works, which partially offset lower levels in civil engineering, arising particularly from the phasing of work on Grand Paris Express and in the building sector. Order intake rose by 7% at VINCI Construction, increasing in Specialty Networks and Major Projects as well as in Africa, and remaining this order intake at the high level in the Americas, Oceania and in roadworks in France. VINCI Construction order book ended the quarter up 9% at almost EUR 37 billion, representing 14 months of average activity. VINCI Immobilier, you know, that's a modest impact for VINCI Group, Q1 revenue of EUR 235 million, minus 5%, and the value of reservation fell by 8%, and that's partly due to some postponements of several bulk sales transactions to the Q2 '25. In conclusion, in today's particularly troubled environment, VINCI's multi-local business model gives it agility, resilience and the ability to adapt. On one hand, its activities are essentially based on local supply chains and workforces. On the other hand, its management model is based on a highly decentralized organization and a strong entrepreneurial culture. In a nutshell, VINCI seems to be a safe haven in today's paradigm as some of you write. VINCI is, therefore, able to maintain the 2025 guidance presented last February. To wrap up, VINCI expects its total revenue and earnings to rise again in 2025 before factoring in the increase in corporate tax rate in France. And last, but not least, I see this opportunity to remind you that from the 1st of May 2025, Xavier Huillard will become Chairman of the Board of Directors and Pierre Anjolras will become Chief Executive Officer of VINCI, following the footsteps of its predecessors to keep on benefiting on the bright and long-lasting megatrends ahead. We would like to thank you for your attention, and we are now ready to take your questions.

[Operator Instructions] We will take our first question, and the question comes from the line of Elodie Rall.

So first of all, I was wondering if you could give us a bit more color about the impact of negative calendar effect in Q1 on traffic in both to toll roads and airports. Second, if you could give us a bit of traffic trends so far in April in toll roads and airports, but I suppose that's harder, so toll roads. And third, if you could help us understand if there's any impact from these tariffs announcements on the diverse parts of VINCI's division?

What was the last question? We missed it. The line was bad.

Sorry, the Trump tariffs announcement, what would be the direct or mostly indirect impact on the different divisions of VINCI?

So yes, regarding the traffic, the -- what we wrote is that the calendar effects were negative. First of all, 2024 was a leap year. So you have mechanically 1 day more -- 1 day less than this year. Second point is Easter weekend. It started last year in 2024 in March. You remember, it started at the end of March and finished at the beginning of April. While this year, the Easter weekend was fully in April. So it means that particularly March because of Easter faced high cost. On the 20th March, the traffic was down, in fact, 4%. This trend, at least on a calendar effect point of view, should then reverse in April. That said, if your question is, if we try to isolate the calendar effects and the farmers blockade impact last year, what would be, let's say, the traffic trend, we are not able to answer that. It would be slightly up. Traffic would be slightly up. For airports, we communicate every month. So you can see what can be the impact. For airports, we still expect growth even if the growth should normalize month-after-month. And that's what we said in the guidance, by the way. We said that for the full year '25, we expect total pax to be up versus 2024, but growth to be less than in 2024. Growth in 2024 was plus 8.5%. So we still expect a growth in 2025, but more moderated than the 8.5%. For trends, for the tariff impact, it's important to have in mind that we are a multi-local company. So in the U.S., in particular, we are American. We have local suppliers. Our employees are American. We don't sell imported goods, such as luxury, spirits or cars. So there is no direct impact on our business. And the U.S. is quite small for VINCI. In the U.S., we generated last year of EUR 3 billion -- a bit more than EUR 3 billion of revenue, compared to total revenue of EUR 72 billion. So let's say the U.S. impact is quite limited, and by the nature of our businesses and the nature of our organization, the direct impact should be limited. After, if the U.S. economy were to slow down and if the U.S. dollar were to fall, there could be, let's say, indirect impact for us. But short term, I would say, no impact.

And do you have an idea of traffic trends on toll roads in April?

No, you will see the 20th of May when we publish the April figures.

We will take our next question, and the next question comes from the line of Luis Prieto.

I just had one question, and apologies because it's a bit unrelated to the actual numbers. You presented a request for qualification for the I-285E, but I understand that you have refrained from doing so for the I-24 [ managed lane ] in Tennessee. Could you provide us some light on why one project and not the other as well as what to expect from VINCI in the remaining U.S. managed lanes project pipeline that we see in front of us?

So first, we have a look that's true for this the managed lane you mentioned, which was not the case for Georgia. We remain very cautious in our approach. We consider that the biggest risk for managed lane is on construction, is for the contractor. And so we didn't change on this front. That said, and probably that's why you can see there are more competitors recently in the upcoming opportunities of managed lanes in U.S. instead of having the 2 or 3 versus maybe 4 or 5 according to what I see in the press. It's maybe due to the fact that the risk metrics is rebalanced a bit in favor of the private sector. That said, I don't want to comment more than that, but it's true that we have a close look on this next opportunity, while remaining very cautious and selective as you know us. So we'll see.

We will take our next question. Your next question comes from the line of Ruairi Cullinane.

Ruairi Cullinane, RBC. Firstly, why do you think heavy goods vehicle traffic declined in autoroutes in March? I'm just comparing the February release with the Q1 figures. I thought at least timing would be favorable there. And secondly, quite an open-ended question, how will increase investments in Germany impact your contracting business? What's your exposure there?

So I will first answer on Germany. It was your question, Ruairi, on Germany?

Yes.

In Germany, it's -- that's a big market for VINCI. We are very exposed to Germany. And by the way, this country is our second largest international market after the U.K. VINCI generated in Germany 2024 revenue of around EUR 5.6 billion. That's 8% of our total revenue. And what's the split between this revenue? VINCI Construction is EUR 1.4 billion. That's mainly some road construction. And you know that road is one of the components of the stimulus plan announced by the future chancellor, Mr. Merz. So VINCI construction, EUR 1.4 billion. VINCI Energies is extremely big in Germany. What I said, it's more than EUR 3.4 billion last year. That's the main international market of VINCI Energies, which represents almost 20% of the total revenue of VINCI Energies. And VINCI Energies in Germany is very exposed to infrastructure. And when we say infrastructure, its energy infrastructure, so to the country's the transmission and distribution lines network, which should be as well a very important part of the stimulus plan. And VINCI Energies is quite big as well in industry for industrial clients. And that said, I told you that the revenue of VINCI Energies increased quite strongly last year, year-on-year, an increase again in Q1 '25 by 11% versus Q1 '24. And Cobra IS is very active in Germany, notably through Dragados Offshore to build and install the HVDC platform and active as well on the LNG terminals that I mentioned in introduction. This is the first LNG regasification plan of the country. So it's a very strategic and important project. So if your question is, should we benefit from the stimulus plans in Germany, both for infrastructure and for defense, the answer is, yes.

Great. And how about...

And just -- yes, there was a traffic on EV trucks in March. It's -- you say decreased, now it's flat. It's slightly, very slightly up, the trucks in March '25 versus March '24, slightly up. Year-to-date, trucks are up almost 2%. So after to try to analyze month after month, you can have some many effects impacting the trend. So it's not always very easy for us to explain, and it's not always -- in other words, don't try to extrapolate too much this kind of monthly trend.

We will take our next question. Your next question comes from the line of Eric Lemarie.

Yes. I've got 3, if I may. The first one, could you maybe confirm that you lost the Nairobi-Nakuru PPP in Kenya. I think you won this PPP with Meridian some years ago. I got a second question on the French property management -- property development sectors. Do you think we are close to the trough of the cycle today in the new residential market in France? And the last question, on toll roads in France, could you maybe tell us whether you have started to request the help of the administrative court in France to try to compensate this new infrastructure stocks you started to pay last year?

Yes, Eric. So first question, Kenya, yes, that's the end for this project, we confirm. Second point, Immobilier, the trough, it's difficult to say. There are some in the current environment, you have some plus and some minus, positives and negatives, but all in probably regarding the order intake, regarding the reservation of housing units, I wouldn't say the trough has been rich. In Q1, this housing unit reservation were still down because what I said some bulk sales have been postponed to Q2, but all-in let's remain a bit cautious. So in terms of revenue for Immobilier, I'm not sure, neither the trough has been reached last year. Maybe this year, revenue will be -- will post, let's say, a flattish or slightly inactive trend. But regarding the operating earnings, probably, yes, the earnings hopefully have been -- the trough has been reached. Remember, in 2024, the EBIT of VINCI Immobilier was negative, and it was due to some write-offs and due to some restructuring charges, which are now behind us. So we should not have again this impact. So we could be back in the positive territory regarding operating earnings. So maybe lower revenue, but a bit better on the results front. Second question -- or third question, sorry, regarding the toll road. First -- regarding, let's say, our claim against this new tax on French Motorway, which is in play since April 2024. And so currently, the case is at the level of the Council of State. There are still a bit -- a few technicalities to check. And so we should have an answer of [indiscernible] data, Council of State, in the coming -- I don't know, maybe in the coming weeks. And then very probably the litigation will continue through the administrative routes, and we'll make our contractual appeal before the Administrative Court of Paris and before the European Courts -- the European Court of Human Rights. And they will have to rule on the grounds raised against this tax. So we will continue to challenge it, be sure of that. And so the administrative route should start soon. But just be sure that VINCI's Autoroutes remains committed to making sure that the states respect its contractual commitment. The procedure could last several years anyway. But however, we are determined to see this dispute through to the end and to win in order to preserve our right and not to set a precedent for the contractual solidity of Vinci Autoroutes Concessions contract. It's a matter of the state's compliance with its commitment. And without confidence in the state compliance with the contractual framework, it's not ideal when we think about all the amounts of private money, which will be needed in the coming years and decade, notably to decarbonate the transport and to decarbonate the French economy. So that's a very important challenge, I would say. It's not only for motorways, it's more than that.

Got it. Got it. Just on this PPP in Kenya, do we know why it has been canceled? Is there an official reason?

It's partly due to some -- it's not so easy to finance such a project.

We will take our next question. Your next question comes from the line of Dario Maglione.

Two quick ones. On construction, can you tell us a bit about the trends that you're seeing in France as well as outside France. I see the like-for-like growth is negative [indiscernible]. So yes, if you can comment a bit more? And also on energies, like-for-like growth in Q1 was 1.6%, whereas for 2024 in most quarters was around more than 3%. So why do you think the growth is slowing down? And is this the new normal?

Yes. This trend of like-for-like in Q1 for VINCI Energies, it's probably a bit early to draw conclusion. It's true it was plus 1.5% like-for-like outside France. But outside France, please keep in mind that this trend follows the very high fourth quarter, where the revenue -- international revenue was up 8%. So Q1 is less good than Q4 '24. That's true. But it's a bit too early to try to extrapolate. Let's see, in the coming months, the situation. And for France, it's quite, I would say, resilient, predictable. It's a like-for-like growth of 1.7%. So all in, the total growth of VINCI Energies is in line with what we announced during the CMD last November, which is that, by 2030, the revenue should increase high to mid-single digits like-for-like and M&A because keep in mind, Dario, that we consider that M&A, the bolt-on is quasi organic growth. So that's bang in line with what we said during the CMD, that bang in line as well with our full year '25 guidance, where we say that in 2025, we expect the revenue of VINCI Energies to increase at the same pace, more or less than in 2024. So it means an increase of plus 5% over the full year. Point number two, for the construction. The line was very bad, Dario. I'm sorry. What was the question on construction exactly?

Yes. So on the revenue side, construction was a bit better than expected. So it is on a like-for-like, I see a slowdown. Maybe can you comment on this slowdown like-for-like both in France as well as international? What to expect for the rest of the year?

In fact, for that -- for VINCI Construction, the revenue we printed in Q1 is exactly in line as well with our full year '25 guidance. For full year '25, we said that we expect revenue of VINCI Construction, flat, including the impact of the acquisition of FM Conway in U.K. So it means excluding this impact, we expected a like-for-like negative -- slightly negative trend. For France, in Q1, like-for-like was minus 1%. And it's mainly due to some phasing effects on large projects in Grand Paris. Some large projects on Grand Paris finished or were ramping down, notably the Line 14, the Line 15 in the south of Paris, while other projects, large projects related to Grand Paris will ramp up and notably the Line 15 West. So that's why we see a slight decrease in revenue. But honestly, it was expected and nothing to worry about. The order book remains very solid, especially in -- for construction, that's true in large projects, that's true in flow business. And flow business is very important for us. It's, let's say, our bread and butter contracts. So no -- no, let's say, no drama signal. And for international, a bit the same effect. A part of the decrease like-for-like was due to some phasing effects with some large projects being at the end, some projects in Australia, for example, some projects in North America, while other large projects are about to start and are about to produce a lot. And these future large projects are, for example, the Red Line Extension in Chicago, the Ontario Line Subway in Toronto. So that's normal. In EPC in large projects, you can have a bit of volatility, but it's on plan, I would say.

Your next question comes from the line of Graham Hunt.

I've just got 3 quick questions, I think. Firstly, just on Cobra order intake. Are we seeing in any sense, a reflection of capacity constraints there that will keep order intake at this kind of lower level going forward in the near term because you just don't have the capacity to do more work there. Second question on the airports. I wondered if you'd carved out -- I know you mentioned in your airport release, some weakness in the U.S. and Dominican Republic because of the slowdown to the U.S. market. But I just wondered if you'd carved out travel to the U.S. for the whole portfolio and whether you've seen -- or what the trends were for the broader portfolio? And if you've seen any change through April? And then third question, just going back to the I-285 East. Was there any reason -- or what's the thinking behind going alone there as the equity partner? Would you consider bringing in a partner on the equity side for other projects?

So from the managed lane, we -- I'm sorry, Graham, will not comment more than that. We -- it's not our tradition to comment on the ongoing opportunities. And it's still a bit early and it's still a long-term process. It's only a prequalification stage. So a lot of things can happen. And we have always to monitor cautiously a specific opportunity and the macroeconomic environment around such an opportunity. And so it's a good segue to the U.S. Specifically, for -- have we seen an impact of the U.S. situation in our traffic? No, even if the current geopolitical uncertainty calls for caution. But at this stage, we have not yet observed a significant slowdown in U.S. airline at airports since the beginning of the year. I have something important in mind is that the proportion of U.S. passengers in our total traffic was around 5% in 2024. So let's say, it's quite limited. You remember that our portfolio is mostly the portfolio, even if it's very diversified worldwide, but the biggest proportion comes from the European airports. All European airports represent more than 70% of the total EBITDA of VINCI Airport. And the traffic within this -- our European Airport is mostly domestic or European or short-haul traffic. That's true for Gatwick. That's true for ANA. So we are not very exposed to long haul, and we are not very exposed to the U.S. passenger. Dominican Republic, because you mentioned [indiscernible], we have to be careful because it's true that it's an airport, which is quite exposed to the U.S. passengers. So we have to be cautious. But at this stage, we don't see an impact. You saw a decrease of traffic year-to-date on the Dominican airports, but it's due to the reduction in the number of aircraft by Arajet. Arajet is one of the airline operating in [indiscernible], and they decided to reduce the offer last May 2024. So in fact, since one year, we faced high comps, I would say. But that's not linked to the current U.S., I would say, uncertainty on fog. That's due to the fact that we have an airline running at lower capacity.

And just on Cobra...

And for Cobra, it's true that for Cobra, or VINCI Construction, for VINCI Energies, the key is the human resources is the availability of manpower. But no, for Cobra IS, don't say, okay, there was a slowdown because of this theme. No, no, it's not that. Cobra IS, the decrease was only due to this exceptional order intake we booked in Q1 '24 for these 2 HVDC in the North Sea in Germany for TenneT. Adjusted from that, the order intake of Cobra IS up. And in particular, the flow business, order intake for Cobra IS are up.

We will take our next question. Your next question comes from the line of Jose Manuel Arroyas.

Just 1 question. I wanted to ask you on the power transmission line contract in Australia that Cobra won together with ACCIONA, I understand this is an availability concession running for many, many years. But could you tell us how much CapEx is involved in this project for VINCI and for how many years will this CapEx need to be deployed?

Jose, no, in fact, we don't communicate a lot on the detail. That's quite a lot of CapEx. What has been officially communicated so far is the total CapEx for this renewable energy zone. It's -- but we did not -- I think we have some confidentiality agreements with the clients not to communicate exactly on the amount of CapEx. It's quite a lot, and we'll do the CapEx Cobra IS with ACCIONA, but we can't say more than that. What is good is that -- I'm sorry, it's only a qualitative answer, you will be frustrated, but it's good because it's a very positive signal for the development of this kind of a mega deals, jumbo deals linked to T&D transmission lines through PPP. What we think is that it's only the beginning. Brazil used this kind of scheme since 20 years. They do their transport of electricity with the private sector. And so Cobra IS has been very, very active since 20 years in Brazil. And now there is this new market, Australia. And probably the need to deploy thousands of kilometers of T&D lines will be used in Australia. And so there will be many opportunities for the private sector. And one day, it will not be only Australia, but we think there will be these kind of opportunities even in France, for example. So that's -- the message is that it's a very promising markets, and thanks to Cobra IS, we have an expertise, and we are the first mover in a market with a bright outlook. But more figures, sorry, I cannot give you.

We will take our next question. Your next question comes from the line of Ami Galla.

Just 2 questions for me. The first one was on the M&A pipeline. You've given the sort of global market uncertainty that we sit with. Has there been any shift in sentiment of the sellers in the market? Do you see any change in how they think about the potential value for their businesses? And the second one was on the order booking levels that you sit with. If we still sit with a wider economic uncertainty over the next year, are there any risks of delays to the order book that we've already taken in terms of the execution profile?

Ami, if I understood correctly, your second question is that is there a risk of cancellation of contracts in the order book?

Yes. Cancellation or delays potentially.

Yes, but cancellation or delays. Yes, you can always have this risk. But we went through many crisis like that. It's not the first one. And even, for example, during the COVID in 2020, there are very, very limited amounts of cancellation in the order book. It's not significant. So today, we don't -- we are not stressed. First, we are not stressed generally speaking. And secondly, we are not stressed by cancellation or delays of contracts, and keep something very important in mind. A lot of this order book has been feeded by VINCI Energies, Cobra IS and VINCI Construction as well by the megatrend of energy transition, of digital transformation, of defense and sovereignty challenges. So this kind of trend, in our view, will not be put into question. Second thing is that in our order book, the projects are, when it's contractually in the case already -- a part is already prepaid. The client has a financing later. So let's say, it's not easy to cancel a project. It's -- and again, fundamentally, we think these projects, there is no reason, let's say, to cancel or postpone these projects. And on top of that, we have, what we call, a pre-backlog, so we don't communicate on the pre-order book. But it's not 0. We are cautious people. So we have other projects, other contracts, which have not been yet included in the order book for different reasons, but we have a pre-backlog. So it's not -- don't worry about that. For the M&A pipeline, we -- consistently, we analyze some opportunities like Luis and Graham asked about this opportunity of managed lanes in the U.S. So we have other opportunities in airports, in highways, outside France, Energies, daily many, many opportunities, et cetera. So we don't change and the sellers don't change their mind. It's sometimes quite a long-term process. So when there is an opportunity up for sale, the seller is not going to withdraw certainly because there are some uncertainties coming from the U.S. Of course, that's something which has to be taken into account. But let's say, we have to remain -- sometimes we have to keep calm and carry on. Let's see the things, and we are long-term people. So it doesn't change dramatically the M&A market. It's -- there are opportunities, but for opportunities, of course, we will analyze even more carefully regarding the evolution of this tariff situation and of this trade war, which changes every day. You know better than us. Every day, there is an erratic decision, I would say, a different news. So we are not going -- a seller is not going to say, okay, no, I don't sell. And the day after, okay, now finally, I'm ready again to sell, et cetera. So that's why we have to keep calm and to stick to our long-term minded philosophy.

We will take our next question. Your next question comes from the line of Harishankar Ramamoorthy.

It's Hari from Deutsche Bank. Just one for me. On the energies division order intake, you've been maintaining that the growth in this segment should not be coupled to GDP growth and should benefit from structural tailwinds. Now I do get that you could see fluctuations in execution or in revenues, but are you concerned about the slowdown in the rate of growth in order intake. So maybe put differently, would you expect inflows to come through much stronger for the rest of the year?

It's the slowdown, year-to-date slowdown. Yes, its order intake are up 2% at VINCI Energies. So it's, let's say, in addition to this order intake, we will do some bolt-on acquisitions. So all in, we are confident to print a high to mid-single-digit growth on average per year by 2030. And we said during the CMD, that the top of the range, the upper range will not be probably for 2024 and 2025. So I circle back with the full year guidance 2025, which is VINCI Energies, to be up more or less like in 2024. So it means plus -- around plus 5%.

Sure...

Again, there is -- to give you an example, Hari. In Germany, since 2 years, Germany is, let's say, in recession. VINCI Energies in Germany posted a double-digit growth year-on-year in 2024. And in Q1 '25, still a double-digit growth despite the country is in recession. So in fact, quarter after quarter or even year after year, you can try to, let's say, to fine-tune to see or is there a positive inflection, negative inflection, okay, that's fair. But Fundamentally speaking, we think VINCI Energies is not cyclical, it's not volatile, and VINCI energies is a unique company in the world. The diversification -- geographical diversification is unique. Diversification of expertise is unique. So of course, you have some markets, which will decrease, which will be under pressure, but it will be compensated by other markets. So I would say that VINCI Energies, if -- we are right in the guidance, if revenue is up 5% in 2025 in a situation where Europe -- European economy will be up maybe plus 1% or plus 1.5%. U.S. economy, maybe in 2025 will be up plus 2%, et cetera, but will do better than that. Just a follow-up for Hari. Last year, it's -- we won in Q1 '24 several large projects, okay? Large projects for VINCI Energies. It's a project above EUR 5 million. But still, they won several large projects and notably in substations in the U.K., in the Netherlands and other projects like that. So in Q1 '24, you had, let's say, a big impact, a big boost for order intake of VINCI Energies of large projects, which is not the case in Q1 '25. And that's why we wrote in the press release that in Q1 '25, the order intake is only made up of small and medium-sized contracts. So if we adjust from these large project impact for VINCI Energies, order intake is up by more than this 2%.

Got it. Got it. So hopefully, we should see better growth rates for the rest of the year?

Hopefully. Stay with us, and you will see.

We will take our next question. Your next question comes from the line of Marcin Wojtal.

I've got 2. Firstly, on airports. Could you remind us what is the level of tariff increases that you are implementing for 2025 for London, Gatwick and also for your airports in Portugal? And my second question, just coming back to the German infrastructure stimulus, which appears to be quite substantial, but how much visibility have you got on the timing? And do you expect any incremental benefit to the business perhaps towards the end of this year or in 2026?

Marcin, that's a good question. For Germany, so clearly, you understood we are winner, thanks to our full exposure to this country, with such announcement and such massive investment in roads, bridges and rail and electrical works, et cetera. But that said, at this stage, I don't have a concrete vision of how this plan will be implemented. And the ramp-up of this plan could take a bit of time, even if the money is here. There is a bit of organization in Germany to put in place between the various levels of clients, of public clients, which clients will launch, which projects, et cetera. So that's why I like a bit of visibility today to answer you exactly, okay, will we see a big impact in 2026 or 2027? Probably not. But again, we are long-term people on this announcements of Germany for infrastructure, for defense are very positive for the European economy and for, let's say, European domestic stock like VINCI. And probably these kind of projects of jumbo stimulus plans are probably not the last one in Europe, and in particular, in defense, some other countries could decide to open a bit, the wallet. So we'll benefit from that. But to give you an exact timing with when will there be an impact in our figures, unfortunately, I can't, but it will not be in the short or very midterm. For airports, the aeronautical fees for ANA, the aeronautical fees were put in place since March 2025. In general, it's at the beginning of the year, but this year, there were a bit of a complex technicality. So the application of aeronautical fees took place in March 2025. And so for Lisbon, the passenger charge for the Lisbon Group, so Lisbon, Madeira [indiscernible] et cetera will increase by 1%. It means, in fact, CPI minus 2% with the reference CPI, with the European CPI at 3%. So Lisbon, the impact will be plus 1%. And Porto and Faroe, the aeronautical fees will increase in line with the European CPI, so it will be plus 3%. For Gatwick, it's the contracts and commitments framework. So in average, the increase from April 2025 will be CPI minus 1%. Don't forget, since many years, it was RPI, the retail price index, since April 2025 within, let's say, the extended CNC framework, it's now CPI minus 1% for this year and the year after. In the next 2 years, it will be CPI. That's for the -- our main assets. After [indiscernible] it will increase again next November. It will be U.S. CPI plus 3%. After already a big increase in 2024, you remember. In Belgrade, it will be the European CPI. So I covered, I think, already a big part. We will give you more granularity in the famous toolbox airports.

There seems to be no further questions. I would like to hand back for closing remarks.

No. Thanks everybody. Good luck with this publication and upcoming publications. And of course, the Investor Relations team remain at your entire disposal to follow up whenever you want. So have a nice evening. Bye-bye.

This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.