Vitasora Health Limited ($VHL)

[Audio Gap]. Before we get started, we'll host a presentation for the first half an hour or so. And if you have any questions, please don't hesitate to use the Q&A function, and I will attempt to get around to them as soon as possible. Now I hand over to Marjan to give us a rundown of what's been happening with Vitasora in the U.S.

Fantastic. Thank you very much, [ Reese ]. And thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for joining us today. And I hope that I'll be able to impart some information about what it is we're working on and the impact that's having on our business. I'm pretty much going to bore you today. We're not going to be talking too much about strategic direction and long-term plans here. I'm going to be focusing wholly and solely on the immediate revenue catalysts that we are now experiencing as a result of executing our strategic plan. To remind everyone what we do for a living, Vitasora Health is a U.S. organization. We focus on delivering remote patient monitoring and connected care services to American patients on behalf of their physicians who are part of our clients' PCP group. That's what we do for living. We provide, if you will, the eyes, ears and mouths of the physicians when their patients leave their care and go home. All those services in the United States are reimbursed. So that's what we do for living. Apart from being listed on the Australian Stock Exchange, the only Australian thing about our organization is my accent. Our entire team is based in the U.S. Our total focus is in the U.S., and we don't play in any other space. So with that, please bear with me. We're going to go through a list of opportunities that have been realized in the very short term with some of the external tailwinds that are driving our performance, together with our own internal execution against the strategic plan that some of you may have heard me talk about. But as I said today, is about the next 3 to 6 months and the revenues that we're going to be generating. We are already seeing significant upticks in our productivity and our revenue generation. Our per patient per month revenue stream in 2026 calendar year is up 15% on the December quarter. I'll get into why these are being increased as we go through this presentation, but it really is a good example of the initiatives that we've undertaken having an impact. Our daily billing rates, that is the number of dollars we bill every day through our fee-for-service business. That's all I'll be talking about today because that's going to get us to cash flow breakeven in the next 3 to 6 months is up 35%. Our patient engagement, we don't necessarily engage with every single patient every month, but our patient engagement is now up 10%. So we're engaging with about 2 out of 3 patients enrolled in our programs at the moment. Very importantly, dual enrollment, that is patients on both CCM, chronic care management and RPM, remote patient monitoring, has doubled this year. So we're up to 8%. In fact, today, the month of March, we're at 9%. So we are growing the dual enrollment, and I'll talk to why that's important moving forward through the presentation. I also want to make it very clear that we are doing things with our existing clients that is making them very satisfied with what it is we do for living. We're expecting at least 40,000 patients from our existing clients, and that's not actually 4 anymore. As of yesterday, that's 5. We've already got 15,000 of those lists at the moment, and we're working through those to scrub those lists to start the enrollment process. Now those 40,000 patients, not all of them will say yes to the program, but somewhere between 15% and 20% will. That will generate somewhere between an additional USD 360,000 to USD 720,000 extra every month in the very near term. That's really important to note, and I'll get into a little more detail around that as well. We are investing very, very heavily in our internal systems, IT and our electronic medical record system, so that's EMR. And that will allow us to have quicker, better patient eligibility, access to data and also qualification of patients for the programs that we deliver. It also provides us with an opportunity to better utilize our workforce, providing greater flexibility in who does what, where, and greater utilization of that workforce. Remembering, although we use technology to help deliver our services, our services are reimbursed fundamentally on a person speaking to a patient. That's really important to note. So we need to make sure that we're getting maximum utilization from the staff that we have that are engaging with our patients. Reimbursement tailwinds as well. Two things have happened since January 1. There's an immediate 8% increase in reimbursement rates for chronic care management. That has impacted positively on our fees for the services we provide. Very importantly, for remote patient monitoring, if you recall, the data points required to qualify for the CPT reimbursement codes for remote patient monitoring was 16 days of data in a 30-day period. CMS has revised that down to 2. Now the impact of that, I'll talk to more in a moment. But as an upfront, our conversion rates from RPM, remote patient monitoring, when it was at 16% -- 16 calls was about 50% to 60%. At 2 days of data, that increases to 90%. There are major ramifications in our revenue structures moving forward on the back of that. Now it is important to note that everything I'm talking about today is purely focused on our core fee-for-service business. That's what's going to get us to cash flow breakeven by the middle of this year. I'm also going to touch a little bit on some of the major near-term opportunities that I hope to be closing and announcing over the next few months as well, which will contribute to our growth over the rest of 2026. Just a reminder of what sets us apart. As I said, we are the ears, eyes and mouths of our customers' providers to their patients when they go home. And you've often heard me say this, a sure fire way of something failing in health care that's new is to get a doctor to try and do anything differently. It's bound to come up against obstacles and not because doctors are not good at doing things, it's because they are so busy with their current core business, consultation, prescription, referral. So we provide a one-stop shop that allows us to deliver these services that every doctor knows they should be doing with their patients. We provide the people, the systems, the technology, the devices to be able to become an extension of our clients' organization, right? We make that turnkey simple so that our clients can continue focusing on what it is they want to be good at and allow us to do the rest. Our wheezo device, patented protected device in respiratory medicine allows us to monitor conditions such as COPD, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease and asthma to very difficult cohorts of patients, particularly in the elderly, where there really isn't an easy way of doing it at the moment. If you really want to do remote patient monitoring in COPD, for instance, you really need wheezo. This opens doors for me and our sales team very, very readily. We are flexible in what it is we do. And as I said today, I'm going to be focusing on the fee-for-service arm, but our longer-term strategic plans are in the area of capitation and risk. So that is also attractive to new clients. We know our services work. We know that we reduce hospitalizations, for example, by more than half. So we know that what we do is good. And apart from us making money out of what it is we do for a living, we also generate revenues for the clients that we have when we're doing fee-for-service work. So this really does set us up quite nicely and the work that I'll be talking to today further differentiates what it is we do for living. We're already seeing results. So I should -- our revenue streams fundamentally come from 3 different areas: our fee-for-service core business, UPEC, which is the Universal Patient Engagement Center, which is the call center business that we inherited when we bought A, right? And also transitions of care management, which is a hospital discharge program and some of the capitated models. But you'll see that from September to December, our core business, fee-for-service business, our Connected Care business continues to grow very, very nicely. That's what's going to take us over the next 3 to 4 months to cash flow breakeven. And I just want to state that again. That's what I'm focusing on today. That's not to say that the other 2 revenue streams aren't important, but they're a little longer term in what it is they're going to be doing and how it is they're going to be contributing to the organization moving forward. But be under no illusions, our fee-for-service service line is where we're going to be getting greatest traction over the next short-term period. The first pillar that we know is generating additional revenues for us. The good news from CMS perspective is that chronic care management and remote patient monitoring is here to stay. The AMA, the American Medical Association has made it very clear that they want to make sure that these services are available to doctors to use with patients because they see it as a key platform or one of the foundations in making sure that we get best bang for buck when it comes to health care investment. They've made remote patient monitoring easier for doctors to qualify patients for, right, which further exemplifies the fact that they want doctors to use this and makes it easy for us to get it done. That means that we'll get a better level of patient engagement, which means that we're going to get higher average per patient per month revenues. And the organization has also increased the reimbursement rates by 8%. So all of that started January 1. All of that is already having a marked impact on our revenues. You saw we're increasing our daily billing rates by 35%. About 8% of that is because of price. And that will obviously continue with all of our new patients coming on a program as well. With the changes in remote patient monitoring, it makes remote patient monitoring a more profitable option for us. We made a pivot last year to focus on chronic care management because the actual dollars per minute that our care coordinators spend with patients was higher in chronic care management than it was for remote patient monitoring, and you don't need a device in chronic care management. With the new 2-day data capture, this really does allow us now to stack remote patient monitoring on to chronic care management and provide a better quality of care. And from a CMS perspective, that's their Medicare perspective, we can enroll patients into both programs. So we continue providing chronic care management, CCM, get paid for that. Our current rate is about $62 per patient per month. A lot of our clients are only chronic care management contracts. We've already got 2 of our larger clients to agree to an RPM extension, and they're commencing in April. As I said, now a device that costs us circa $100 becomes a very viable option. The incremental upside on top of the $60 is somewhere between $30 and $50 depending on whether we -- depending on how many CPT codes, reimbursement codes we deliver. This is really exciting because it allows us to deliver an even better quality service to our clients and their patients whilst driving per patient per month revenues. And as you heard at the beginning of the presentation, our dual enrollment rates have more than doubled in only 2 months, and we expect that to continue. Our objective as an organization is to have half of all of our patients enrolled in both programs by the end of this year. Pillar 3, and this is the big one because it's really -- it's interesting. We're a technology-enabled business and industry. Yet a lot of what it is we do is so manual even today because that's just the way things were set up by the industry in the past. We are one of the only organizations that's introducing our own electronic medical record system, our own EMR that has embedded within it AI efficiencies, which I will talk to that are already having massive impacts on what it is we're doing. It allows us better eligibility and patient stratification and allows us to access data directly without having to ask our clients for that information. Now why is that important? Give you an example. One of the clients, and I said we've got 15,000 patients that have just been sent to us. One of those lists was sent to us 3 weeks ago in a CSV file, spreadsheet. We look at it. It's never got what it is we wanted it. So we've looked at it. In this particular instance, there were no telephone numbers and no disease case. So straight away, I can't contact the patients. And I don't know what I'm going to contact them about anyway. Now that's because the clients' EMR has a different nomenclature around what they call things. Now we've iterated that 3 or 4 times over the last 3 weeks, and we're finding in a place now where we've got everything we need. With our new EMR, I will be able to go directly into the EMR of our clients, get all the information I need, interrogate that information without bothering them at all and be able to analyze, stratify and segment patients so that I can then go target them with whatever programs we can do. That is a huge opportunity for us. It speeds things up. It reduces the hassles that our clients need to go through, remembering, of course, there are people involved when you ask for stuff. So I ask for something, they ask somebody, if they ask somebody, they ask somebody in a week's time, somebody gets back to me. With this new system, we completely eliminate that. Our AI capability allows us to prequalify patients for the reimbursement codes. Now what that means is at the moment, someone's going to pick up the phone and call and ask, we don't have to do that anymore with our new system. On top of that, one of the things that physicians are not particularly good at is coding their patients with all the chronic conditions that they've got. They're called ICD-10 codes in the United States. Now if you haven't got them, then the system assumes there's nothing wrong with the patient, even though there is. So when I get a list of patients, even the 15,000 we just got, only about 20% of that particular cohort of patients have enough data and enough coding for me to be able to say, okay, I know what's wrong with those patients. Now it is important to note that if you look at the epidemiology data in America, patients over the age of 65, 4 out of 5 of them, 80% have got more than 2 chronic diseases. Medicare patients, our core patients are all over the age of 65. So if I get 10,000 patients, you'd expect 8,000 to have the chronic diseases that we need to be able to go and enroll them into chronic care management. We don't see that. because the doctors don't do the coding as well as they could do because they're really busy. With our new AI platform, we'll be able to cross-reference the patient information with their prescription data in real time and work out what drugs people are on. And if they're on a blood pressure tablet and they don't have the blood pressure ICD-10 code, they'll qualify for what it is we need to do. Now we know that we'll be able to do this. It is part of the functionality of our new systems. I can't give you any details as to how good that's going to be when it comes to moving that 20% number to 78.8% because we kick off on April 1. Very exciting time for us, a great innovation that will allow us to get a better yield from the same number of patients we're getting and also allow us to more flexibly use our workforce. So really, when you bring all these 3 things together, we have got a situation where we're really tightening up our revenue integrity infrastructure. We've got the AI reconciliation of our own EMR system, electronic medical record system, being able to cross-reference prescription data with clinical data. The direct data transfer straight into our clients' EMRs eliminates inefficiency. It allows us to more readily and easily identify patients who qualify for CCM and RPM. This is going to start April 1. It basically expands our eligible cohort of patients without needing to expand the number of patients that we're getting from our clients. And all of this helps our clients better bill for the reimbursement codes and allows us to get paid a lot faster. So this is really exciting. The last one is volume expansion. I won't spend too much time on this. I have spoken about the 40,000 patients that we expect from existing satisfied clients. I've already got 15,000 of them. And it isn't 4 clients anymore, it's 5. We've got very, very conservative conversion rates in there. And as I said, the incremental monthly revenues are obviously on top of what we are currently making. We need to get to circa USD 650,000 to be breakeven. and I'm still confident that we're going to do this by the middle of this calendar year. Importantly, the federal government in the United States announced a whole bunch of rural health care initiatives and they are offering states up to USD 1 billion to deliver health care services to rural patients who are not insured by anyone. One of the cool things is our people have been intimately involved in pulling together one of these proposals. And one of these proposals that was awarded to the state was almost $1 billion over 5 years. Now we are a partner with that state. We don't have the contract yet, but we are very well positioned to help the state realize the initiatives that were put into the proposal that we have put together. It's a very exciting time. We'll get some clarity on that over the next couple of months. That's a big deal for us. All that's going to be driven by, as I said, our electronic medical record system, EMRs, standardizing how we do things, providing greater flexibility with our workforce because at the moment, unless our care coordinators got access to our clients' EMR, they can't do any work. So if they're flat out one day, well, that's bad like the patient has to wait. With our new system, we can allocate patients across our entire workforce, which gives us greater utilization and greater flexibility. That's going to drive greater revenues, greater daily billing and really provide us with the opportunity of really focusing on who those patients are that we can dual enroll into RPM and CCM to really drive the revenue per patient. All of this is now. I'm not talking about this in 6 months' time. This is all happening right now. So when you look at it, we really have got a perfect storm happening for us in the short term, and we've got a compounding revenue engine for both existing and new clients. We've got CMS Medicare policy driving what it is we need to do. There's more money in it now because they've given an increase in the reimbursement rates, and they've made it easier for us to actually get these services to clients, which allows us to provide many services to the single client through dual enrollment. And our new systems allow us to really expedite the data validation. We're going to need to be able to enroll those patients quickly, efficiently and get them on program so that they start generating revenue for us. That's all happening. The new system, the new EMR system kicks off April 1. The only way we can make an opportunity like this come to fruition is by really making sure that we are investing in automation. As I said, reducing hassles around data transfer improves efficiency. AI automation, this is real AI automation. We're using this to really provide the screens that we need to be able to preauthorize and qualify patients for programs in a much more efficient manner. And as I said, the 2-way communication between our system and our client system improves staff utilization. All of this is going to come together. It's one of the reasons we've really spent quite a bit of money getting ourselves ready for this and the fruits of this are already starting to show through the workflows that we've improved. But really importantly, come April 1, this new system will be in place. And I just want to reinforce, I don't need a single new client to hit my breakeven numbers. We've got 40,000 fee-for-service patients and the opportunity for Jill and R. CMS is behind the stuff that we do and are supporting it heavily and are actually paying us more to do it. Our internal systems are going to help us get better bang for buck out of everything we do. And as I said, although I'll never say no to a new client, and there's some really big opportunities that we're working on at the moment that I hope to let people know about in the next month or so. I don't need new opportunities to hit my breakeven number in the middle of this year. So why Vitasora? Medicare is behind us. We've got a very clear expansion plan for revenues per patient. We know that the patients we're getting are underutilized when it comes to reimbursability. And importantly, we're in a state now where we can actually really scale the resources and revenues that we're generating. In the past, we've had a whole bunch of fee-for-service patients. Today, we've got 40,000 new patients at a minimum that are going to generate somewhere between $360,000 and $720,000 in additional revenues, fee-for-service revenues by July this year. We've got a situation where we're moving from data file transfer to EMR connectivity and AI eligibility. Only CCM to CCM plus RPM, improving per patient per month revenues. improving coding with the AI capabilities that we've got. And we've got a Medicare that is very, very sympathetic to making sure this actually happens and is paying more for it. So we're very uniquely positioned at the moment, and I'd like to thank you all for listening to me today. And I hope I've given you a little bit of insight into the immediate opportunities that exist for us, the revenue catalysts. Next time around, I might get into a little more about the longer-term strategies that we're pursuing as well. So thank you very much.

Thank you, Marjan. Just a reminder, if there are any questions online, please use the Q&A function and we'll get around to it for any questions in the room. But to maybe kick it off first, just a bit of an understanding behind the regulatory developments and the CMS changes. to particularly the RPM and CCM codes. What was the reason behind that? And can we expect maybe further tailwinds or further upside in RPM, CCM moving forward, say, annually and then also other features such as CCM?

Let me start with future scaping. You're a better man than I am if you can work out what the government is going to do next year. So I wish I could say yes, I don't know. And that one I can't answer. But what I can answer is there is certainly a very real focus by the Secretary of Health, RFK Judi, regards what you think of the b, I don't care. It doesn't matter to me. But he has made it very, very clear that we -- that in his mind, technology and investment in health care from the home is a key platform for optimizing the health care investments they're making, right? So between himself and Dr. Oz, they are very much focused on making sure that this is something that becomes part of the mix. The American Medical Association was also a big supporter of this. So we don't see that remote patient monitoring or CCM are going anywhere anytime soon because the reality is this, right? If you're my doctor, Reese, I'll be really lucky if I have a heart attack in front of you because you can do something about it. The reality is 99.9% of issues happen when you go -- the only way you can address that is by getting greater transparency around what's happening with the patient when they leave. So having me as your eyes, ears and mouth helps address that.

Okay. Brilliant. We've got a couple of questions online. So someone is asking why start April 1? Would you need to ship the product? Is it something to do with client time lines? And then your weekly onboarding capacity with the current staffing levels and levels of overhead.

Great. So why April 1? Because it's going to take us that long to make sure that the EMR system we've got in place is tested, working and our people are trained, okay? This has all taken time. So April 1 is when we kick that off. Now a lot of the systems that this system will help automate are already being executed. You saw from the results 15% improvement in per member per patient per month revenue fees, 35% improvement in daily billing rates, almost more than a doubling of dual enrollment to RPM and CCM. Those things are already happening. And one of the things I've learned in my time is a technology accelerator accelerates the systems that you've got. So if your systems are rubbish, they'll accelerate more rubbish. We've spent the last 5 months tuning our systems to a place where you're already seeing the results. This system or the IT platform is going to help accelerate the systems that we already know are working. So I wish I could have kicked this off last month that I know that if I did that, we wouldn't be ready.

Just an additional follow-up to that question while we're on it. Capacity to scale within the current cost base. So obviously, there's been ongoing investment into this automation platform. Now what about medical devices on hands and clinical consultants? Can you comment on that? Is there further investment required to scale? Have you got the resources already in place?

Very good question. So when it comes to medical devices at the moment, we work on a just-in-time process. So we order what we need when we need it. So I don't need to hold inventory. And we've got wheezo inventory that we use now. So wheezo is part and parcel of what it is we do. The reality is that COPD or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease makes up about 4% of the total population. That's not a lot, but they are very difficult to order patients. So we don't see a massive cash drain from that perspective. With our current care coordinator team, they're not fully utilized at the moment. So we anticipate getting another 30% out of them to drive additional revenues without needing to employ more people. Now in saying that, given what I've just shown you, we will be -- and you can go on LinkedIn now, we're looking for people right now. Like we're going to have to -- because each one of our care coordinators looks after about 200 -- sorry, about 180 to 250 patients. They cost us about USD 60,000. Those 180 to 250 patients generate somewhere in the vicinity of USD 0.25 million per annum. So they more than -- that's if the person is at full utilization, right? So we are looking at expanding that team in readiness for the numbers we know. I said I've got another 15,000 patients now. Not all of those are going to be enrolled, but there will be a sizable chunk of them. That starts next week.

Okay. And then in terms of staffing, I thought I'd ask the question, noticed a new COO appointment.

Larry. Yes. A diamond in the rough. That's his name. Larry Diamond.

Brief look, very highly credentialed. There's a lot of intimate knowledge within the space. Can you comment on his appointment and I guess, his contribution to Vitasora moving forward?

Larry understands this space better than anybody I know. So he really is someone that is taking a good platform that we have and making it great. okay? He's got extensive experience in remote patient monitoring connected care. He's been a CEO of a U.S.-based and listed organization health care organization. He has been in this space for ages. He's got wonderful contacts both from a client perspective, but also from a people perspective, and we're already bringing new people on to be able to help us get the organization to the next level. And he's a wonderful foil for me to bounce my stupid ideas off. So he has really been a wonderful addition to the organization, along with our new sales -- Vice President of Sales, our new CTO. We've got a completely new team that's all based in the United States. And as I said, the only Australian thing about our organization is my accident. And it's only in this country for half year anyway. So I just got back from the U.S. just recently. So I couldn't be happier.

Awesome. And as part of your pathway to scale, obviously, in amongst the automation, focusing on larger, bigger clients, health care systems and moving -- pivoting away from the small single clinics. Obviously, we saw in the contract patient programs, you said a client. Should we expect any more? Or -- and what does the level of -- current level of churn look like within the business? And could you comment at this point in the company cycle, do you believe that pretty much all the growing pains are now behind you and that you're full steam ahead?

The growing pains are never behind us. But when you're growing as quickly as we are, that's just something that we need to be good at, right? -- the really bad growing pains, they're behind us. But we're also going to be -- I'll be honest because we're growing so quickly, there is churn in people, there is a churn in ability. There's a whole bunch of things that need to be addressed. These systems will help address those issues. Now with regards...

Just pathway to scale, shedding legacy clients and more scale...

Sorry, I forgot about that. But my situation is this, that I can't comment on whether or not we're going to lose any clients moving forward because you don't. What I can say, I've got 5 clients who have just handed over or just about to hand over more than 40,000 of their patients for me to look after. Now that tells me that we're doing something, right? But does it tell me that they're going to be around in 2 years' time? I don't know. But what I can tell you is, as of today, they've entrusted me with even more of their patients on the back of what it is we're currently delivering.

And this EMR integration, does that have a lot of similarities or crossover with what we have here in Australia my health records and that will obviously open up pathways.

So a lot of our expense is building APIs into clients' EMRs, good straight data check. And that one is expensive; two, it takes time; three, it's, right? Now like my records, my health records here in Australia, in the United States, it is a legal requirement for all electronic medical record systems to be able to allow a patient to move all their data from one system to another. That's called CCDA file transfer, HL7. I've learned all this over the last whatever, I know what it all means. But anyway, it's -- the protocols that need to be followed and the legal requirements. We have our own EMR, which allows us to utilize that communication requirement to transfer information on the back of the BAAs, the business associate agreements we've got with our clients, which basically makes us an extension of our client. So there are similarities, and it does, in fact, lead to, as you saw from the presentation, greater efficiencies in what it is that we're trying to do. And a better understanding of what we can and can't do with our patients. Right.

Okay. And obviously, this has been the flavor of the market recently. But with the tech sell-off and being a tech-enabled company, do you see any, I guess, headwinds or tailwinds as a result of AI? And I mean, stating the obvious, what sort of sets you apart from other traditional tech-only SaaS players within the space or outside of health care even?

No, I get it. And it's interesting. I could sit here and say we're a technology company, and we're not. We use technology to enable what it is we do for living. But fundamentally, the fee-for-service model that we have in the United States can only happen from a reimbursement perspective with a person delivering the service. So although technology is important for us, we are very much reliant upon someone building a longitudinal relationship with the patient and getting the patient to change their behavior. We don't prescribe, we don't diagnose, we don't treat. We take a plan that's been put together by our clients' doctors, and we make it happen because they can't. I mean, fundamentally, that's our business. They're trying to get the patient to do something when they leave and they can't get it done. Now CMS knows that the only way that's going to happen is by someone following up. it's hawthorn effect, what gets measured gets done. And we're seeing some pretty good results.

So the more painful your business is, the more it's encapsulated by a moat that's accessible by anyone else. Correct. Okay. And then I think in the December quarter, obviously, there was an effect due to seasonality with the Christmas period. So cash collection was obviously a bit varied during that quarter. I think can you comment on receiving payments since that date? And maybe can you call out, is there any other seasonality to be expected in the upcoming quarter with ESO and...

One thing is I don't want to be making excuses for seasonality. So when I say there's a couple of days missing, it's just -- that's just the reality, right? That's the way it is. So we need to hit numbers. Now collections has been pretty good to date. So there are a couple of clients who are paying in the when it comes to paying their bills. They pay them, but they're a little delayed. There are others that are a lot better at that. So we've seen a good uptick in the revenues that we're receiving. And I think you'll see that when we publish our 4C at the end of this month, of course -- no, sorry, at the end of [indiscernible] months. So the cash is coming. But like any business, there are good payers and there are payers that aren't as good. So we need to manage those and encourage them to become better payers.

And I think just from a high-level perspective, just to give an indication of what Vitasora is, what it does and to give us some sense of granularity, can you just outline, I guess, the operational mechanics payment timing, any feedback you perhaps get from a client, I guess, productivity and size of opportunity of, say, your top fee-for-service client? And just give us insights into, I guess, what's happening at the ground level.

So I think the greatest insight I can give you, Reese, is this, and I'm repeating myself here, but I think it's worth repeating, right? We're going to get to 40,000 patients, at least 40,000 patients from 5 very satisfied clients. Now there is no better endorsement, I don't think, on what it is we do for living than that, right? We're going to get a lot better at what we get out of those 40,000 patients based on the presentation I've made today. So that is probably the best feedback that I can give anyone. Now we get testimonials all the time from patients telling us how wonderful things are, and that's great. But I think from a Ruby CEO's perspective, having someone that we're dealing with give us more business is a good indictment on what it is we're doing. So that's great. With regards to services, you've got to remember that what we do for living basically revolves around a 30-day window. That's what the reimbursement code state. So I can't do anything with anyone when it comes to reimbursement or give my clients data to claim the reimbursement until I get 30 days of information. Even if I get like the 2 data codes, even if I get those 2 data codes in the first 2 days, I still can't do anything with that. I've got to wait until the 30-day period is over. So that gives you some insights into the first bottleneck right? Second one is we then hand that over to our clients, and then we need to fit in with when it is they actually do their runs for the reimbursement case. Now some of them do it on a weekly basis, some of them do on a monthly basis, right? So -- and with some of our clients, it's done manually. So they will put it all to one side and say, okay, when we get enough of this, we'll do it in one year. Now the new EMR will eliminate a lot of that, right? But that's the way it works at the moment, right? So that's a problem, problem. a challenge. And then you've got the different payers would take somewhere between 30 and depending on what each private insurer is up to 90 days to pay. So these are the sorts of things that we have very little control over that are either structurally embedded into the reimbursement structure or what it is that insurers actually paying or how quickly they pay. So I hope that gives you some insight. So I wish I could say our ARs are 30 days, they're not. They're around 45 to 60, but we're doing a reasonably good job in making sure that we get the cash as quick as we possibly can.

Okay. Any questions in the room very, very quickly?

Yes. Thank you so much. Just one question. Have you guys have any experience within the EMR system that you've built out using EX like bringing in data from EX myChart program, considering that is such a large part of the U.S. health care data space.

Thanks for that, Brent. And the reality is Epic is about 80% of the U.S. marketplace right now. The beauty of eye care is it is -- we're not a guinea pig. So they are already working with organizations, not in our space, but with other organizations that require interconnectivity between different systems. So we already know that they have the capability of being able to engage with Epic. Now as you know, every Epic, they've got a great business model. Is that a little bit different? And although you'd like to think I get it done once it's done for, but it's not -- doesn't work that way. So we still need to do a bit of work to understand how we enter their ecosystem. But we do know that they have the connectivity. We do know that they currently exchange data, and we do know at the moment that we have a bunch of clients that are really excited about me not pestering them for Dex files, spreadsheet files anymore because they just hate it. They know they need to do it, but they hate it. Does that answer your question?

Yes. And I guess more just like do some of the patient providers you work with use Mart in of itself because I feel like that's a good.

Well, the other thing is at the moment, we actually -- our staff need to have access to our clients' EMRs to be able to document everything that's happening. So we have direct access to API anyway, right? So -- but the problem there is if you've got half a dozen people who have access to a particular client's EMR, they're the only half a dozen people that can do work with them. So if they're busy or busy in a day, well, that's bad luck they're fully utilized. So with the new system and the data transfer and connectivity, that allows us to palm people off to wherever we want because we'll be working in our EMR and transferring the data back to their EMRs. So it really does -- it is a game changer for us when it comes to utilization of staff.

Awesome. Well, thank you very much for your time today, Marjan. I might just pass over to yourself for any closing remarks and things that investors can look forward to seeing from Vitasora in the very near future or from now, as you put it.

Well, thanks very much again for having me, and thank you very much for everyone for putting up with me for the last 45 minutes. As I said, I have purposefully focused on the very tactical manifestations of strategy execution today. okay? There's a lot of other things we're working on. There's a lot of stuff we're working on with respect to new clients, with respect to capitation and risk, with respect to a whole bunch of other things. Those things are not going to generate or drive much short-term revenues. Today has been around the outcomes of what it is that we've executed against our strategic plan over the last 6 months. And for you to get an insight into the impact they're already having. We feel very, very confident of where we're at. And I'm very comfortable that we will, by the middle of this year, be at cash flow breakeven for business as usual as an organization on the back of existing clients. Nobody else, existing clients more patients, greater yield. So thank you all very much, and I look forward to surprising you with a few more announcements over the next few months as well. So thank you very much.

Thank you, everyone, for your attendance.