Vivendi SE (VIV) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the Vivendi Full Year 2023 Earnings Presentation. This conference call will be hosted by Mr. Arnaud de Puyfontaine, Chairman of the Management Board and CEO; and Mr. Francois Laroze, Member of Management Board and CFO. As a reminder, this call is being recorded. [Operator Instructions] I'd now like to turn the call over to your host, Mr. Arnaud de Puyfontaine. Please go ahead, sir.

Thank you, and hello, everyone. Welcome, and thank you for joining us today. I'm delighted to be with you to present key highlights from last year. 2023 was a significant year for Vivendi with strong growth in results. Revenues increased by 9.5% due to the growth of Canal+ Group and Havas as well as the integration of Lagardère as of 1st of December 2023. The EBITA of our controlled businesses was up 10.6% compared to 2022. Francois will elaborate further in a few minutes. This very good performance in challenging environments confirm the strength of our activities. Let me thank the Vivendi teams around the world for their commitment and talent. 2023 was a significant year for another reason. It was a year of major transformation for Vivendi. First, we completed our transaction with the Lagardère Group, the world's third largest book publisher for the general public and education markets and a leading global travel retailer. After quite a complex operation, we are very proud to have welcomed the group's talent and started our collaboration. Last week, the group published excellent annual results with another year of strong earnings growth driven by its 2 main activities, hats off to Arnaud Lagardère and his 30,000 colleagues. Second, our business pursued their own transformation resulting in strong dynamism. The Canal+ Group has confirmed its active international developments, more than 16 out of its 26 million subscribers are now outside France. The acquisition of stakes in Viu and Viaplay and the mandatory offer for the MultiChoice group chairs not already owned should enable Canal+ Group to further accelerate its growth particularly in Asia and Africa in the coming years. Havas is the second fastest-growing company in the communications sector. To meet its clients' needs and expectations, the group has considerably strengthened its position, integrating 10 new agencies, launching ever more innovative solutions and forging strategic partnerships, notably in AI and retail media. Prisma Media, the French leader in magazine and digital press expanded into new segments, building up, in particular, a solid luxury and interior decoration division with content-to-commerce initiatives and the successful integration of the assets acquired from M6 Digital Services, the group is activating new growth levers and continuing its consolidation. As for Gameloft, the performance is not up to what it should be, confirming the need to accelerate the transformation of the business to achieve double-digit margin levels. At the same time, as a group, we continued our transformation towards a more sustainable business model and delivered on our extra financial performance. You will find our main ESG developments on this slide. Let me highlight a few achievements. Our CO2 emissions, Scopes 1 and 2 have been reduced by 20% compared to 2022 versus a 10% decrease the previous year. We definitely stepped up our efforts to fight against climate change. On social, we increased the percentage of women within our management bodies. They now represents 40%. We are collectively particularly proud to have reached the target set by the RixenLaw 6 years ahead of schedule and to have been recognized as one of the parity champions by the schema observatory on the feminization of companies. I also want to congratulate the teams for the creation of the Vivendi Foundation, which strengthens our philanthropic commitment. As you can see, 2023 was rich in achievements. Our overall performance demonstrates the success of our strategy. Over the past years, our obsession has always been to grow our business. That's why we have advanced step by step in our strategy of transformation and internationalization, which has enabled all our entities to develop. Vivendi succeeded in achieving robust operating and financial performances across its various businesses. This strong operational momentum explains why since April 2018, year of arrival of Yannick Bollore as Chairman of the Supervisory Board, our share price dividends reinvested has increased by 113% whereas the CAC 40 only increased by 74% today. However, we are faced with a dual reality. First, fierce competition and unparalleled reinvention challenges for each of our businesses. The priority today in our entities first approach is to restore agility and entrepreneurial capacity the necessary revolution. Second, it's even better than us. Since the beginning and even more so since the distribution and listing of UMG Group in 2021, Vivendi has entered a significantly high conglomerate discount, topping 50% at one point. This discount is limiting our ability to carry out external growth transactions for our subsidiaries in an international context marked in particular by numerous investment opportunities. In this context, we have decided to propose to the Supervisory Board to explore the feasibility of a project to split the company into 4 entities, each of which would be listed on the stock market: Canal+, Havas, a company grouping the asset in publishing and distribution, and an investment company owning listed and unlisted financial stakes. The work is progressing. Of course, this project will have to demonstrate its added value for all stakeholders. The ambition is to release the potential of our entities by providing them with all the human resources and financial agility and need. Our businesses being pure players in the specific industries would be even more competitive. 2024 is certain to be another year of reinvention. The macroeconomic and geopolitical context is surely uncertain, but our businesses have everything they need to succeed again this year. Our teams stay committed to delivering a strong operational performance. The first few months already confirmed the continued good business trends of our main entities. Thank you for your attention, and let me now hand things over to Francois. Thanks, Francois. Over to you.

Thank you, Arnaud. Hi, everyone. So we will walk you through the presentation of our figures for 2023, and sorry in advance for my strange voice today. Let's focus on the group in a nutshell on the first page with the revenue up to EUR 10.5 billion for the whole year. EBITA of controlled business, EUR 715 million; adjusted net income, EUR 722 million and the headcount, which amounts to 73,000 at the end of the year 2023. As you know, we have consolidated Lagardère from the 1st of December 2023. So relying on pro forma figures, what would have been the revenues with Lagardère 12 months in our accounts, it's EUR 17.9 billion of revenues, EBIT of EUR 1.2 billion and the net result group share of EUR 0.5 billion. If we have a look at our financial situation, it has been very solid, with EUR 17.1 billion of shareholder equity -- shareowners' equity. The financial debt is EUR 2.8 billion, out of which EUR 0.8 billion comes from Vivendi legacy business and EUR 2 billion from Lagardère. The cash flow from operation is EUR 881 million and we still have EUR 3.2 billion of available credit facilities. If we have a look at the revenue of the group, it's EUR 10.5 billion compared with EUR 9.6 billion, including EUR 0.7 billion of Lagardère December performance. Our main 2 business units are Canal+ and Havas, which are delivering very sound organic growth, 2.9% for Canal+, 4.4% for Havas. So if we add to this 2.6% organic growth, the scope impact with Lagardère mainly at 7.6% and negative currency impact by 0.7%. We find a growth increase by 9.5%. If we have a look at the fourth quarter, the trend is roughly the same with 1.5% of organic growth to which we had the scope impact, Lagardère mainly, again, 25.2 points, then the negative currency impacts by minus 1.3, which leads to a 24.5 increase of the revenue compared with last year fourth quarter. For the EBITA of the group, for the controlled business, it's EUR 715 million compared with EUR 646 million. It's a 12.1% organic increase. Canal+ has done very well from EUR 515 million to EUR 525 million, 1.3% organic. Havas also from EUR 286 million to EUR 310 million, 8% increase. Prisma is slightly below the performance of last year. And Gameloft, as Arnaud just said, has a lower performance than last year. Vivendi Village is doing better from minus 6 to plus 13. So the new initiative business, Gameloft and GVA from minus 46 to minus 43. If we add to this EBITA of the controlled business, the one coming from our equity affiliates UMG and Lagardère, the EBITA for the group is EUR 934 million compared with EUR 868 million, it's 7.5% increase. Just a rapid glance at the impact of UMG because as you see on the previous page, the income is down from EUR 124 million last year to EUR 94 million. It's mainly due to the way that Vivendi accounts for the UMG performance, excluding all the impact of the revaluation gain or losses on the investment in Spotify and Tencent Music. That's the reason why even if the group UMG has released a strong net earnings from EUR 0.8 billion to EUR 1.2 billion, we have a slightly decreasing impact on our figures. In terms of cash flow, it's still very solid EUR 881 million with Canal+ almost EUR 400 million; Havas, EUR 300 million; and EUR 139 million for the month of December of Lagardère. The net income of the group is EUR 405 million compared with a loss of EUR 1 billion last year, including some one-off impact of Telecom Italia. And if we look at the adjusted net income, we amount to EUR 722 million. It's 2x the one of last year, which was EUR 343 million. Now let's spend a few seconds on the financial debt evolution. We moved to EUR 0.9 billion of net debt last year to EUR 0.8 billion at the end of the year 2023. And then we add to this level of debt, the one coming from Lagardère, which is EUR 2 billion. That's the reason why our overall net debt amounts to EUR 2.8 billion. And if we focus on the Vivendi legacy business, we see that we have a strong cash flow, EUR 0.9 billion. We have the disposal of Editis and Gala for almost EUR 0.7 billion, and then we have spent almost EUR 600 million in M&A, both in Canal+ and Havas, which explains this performance quite stable from EUR 0.9 billion to EUR 0.8 billion. Concerning the net debt situation, you see that the interests are up from minus EUR 14 million to EUR 13 million. It mainly comes from the evolution of the interest rates and also just point out that with this net debt of EUR 2.8 billion at the end of December 2023, we have a gross cash position of EUR 2.2 billion and gross debt mainly from bonds, which amounts to EUR 4 billion at the end of the previous year. Our portfolio of financial assets is quite stable for the one, which are managed directly with the Vivendi HQ PRISA, Universal, MFA, all of them had no major evolution during the year 2023. The main evolution comes from the one managed by the group Canal+, MultiChoice, Viu and Viaplay, on which we'll come back later. Let's remind that the total value of all our financial assets amounts to EUR 8 billion at the end of the year and that we have received EUR 171 million of dividend during this year 2023. Now a rapid look at our main business units to confirm what Arnaud told you. Canal+ has delivered 2.9% organic growth coming from all the business units, TV International, also Mainland France, which is very satisfactory to see the Mainland France going by 3.3% and Studiocanal with a very strong performance of 12.7% with some big success at the box office that you see on the slide. The subscriber base is also going up from 25.5 million to 26.4 million, 16.3 million coming from Europe, 9.1 million from France, 8.1 million from Africa, the remaining 2 million coming from the rest of the world, including Asia Pacific. Concerning the main assets -- financial assets of Canal+, let's have a focus on MultiChoice to remind you that the presence in 16 African countries that they have 7.3 million subscribers, EUR 3.4 billion of revenues and EUR 580 million of EBIT. First offer has been down at R105 early Feb. And this offer has been increased to R125 last week. Now we should launch the mandatory takeover no later than in 8th of April of this year, and we'll come back at it. For Viu, we are increasing step by step our share in this very successful group in Asia. We now have 30% of stake in the Viu Group, and we should come to -- move to 51% in the coming years if the performance of Viu are in line with the proposed business plan. Let's comment that up to now, they have absolutely followed their business plans, and we are totally in line for the previous year with the anticipated performance. For Viaplay, the recent information as well that we have invested EUR 120 million in the capital increase that has been launched in Feb. We are now the first shareholder of Viaplay with 29.33%, and we consider that having taken the good decision in terms of rights -- TV rights, they should be in a position to come back rapidly to positive results. Lagardère, the figures has been released last week so you know them. Just remind that the revenue went up by 14%, mainly driven by the Travel Retail, but the publishing is still doing well. And the recurring EBIT, they call results, is up also by 14% from EUR 438 million to EUR 520 million. And let's point out that Travel Retail is now representing 2 and 45 -- EUR 245 million out of which -- this EUR 520 million overall EBIT. Havas very good performance all over the year. The fourth quarter is still very strong, EUR 4.7 million the world gear is 4.4%. As Arnaud said, we are just below Publicis but strongly ahead of the all the other competitors. And the EBIT moved from EUR 286 million to EUR 310 million. It's 8% increase between '22 and 2023. This growth is well spread all over the world. Our main 2 regions, North America and Europe are up by 1.9% and 1.7%. And then the extraordinary performance of Latin America with 14.1%, both in Mexico and Brazil and in other geographies. And Asia Pacific is up by 9.9%. Havas has been extremely active in the M&A field with 10 operation all over year 2023, 9 majority acquisition and 1 minority one. All of this acquisition has been done abroad in all the country you see here from Germany, Canada, U.K., Australia and have strengthened our expertise in creativity, performance marketing and strategic communications. For Prisma Media, the revenue is down by EUR 11 million from EUR 320 million to EUR 309 million, mainly due to the disposal of Gala in November. And the EBITA is roughly stable. And if we restate from Gala and some one-off impact, it's slightly above the one of the previous year. Gameloft, the revenue is down from EUR 321 million to EUR 311 million. Last year has been strongly and positively impacted by the launch of success of Disney Dreamlight Valley. The franchise we launched last year, Disney Speedstorm has not been such a success. And so we are relaunching the game, which is now a free-to-play game, and we intend, first of all, to increase our revenue and to adapt our cost base to this evolution of the mobile market. For the new initiative, it's a strong year as well. The revenues went up from EUR 122 million to EUR 152 million. It's coming from the 2 business units, GVA Canal+ and Dailymotion. And the EBITA is on its route to the breakeven from minus 39 to minus 22. As a conclusion, I would say that we are quite satisfied with this strong operation in 2023 that we will release our Q1 2024 revenues during our shareholders' meetings during the -- in 29 of April 2024, in which we will propose an ordinary dividend of EUR 0.25 per share, stable compared with last year. It's a 2.6% yield and this dividend should be paid early May 2024. Thank you for your attention. And with Arnaud, we are at your disposal to answer any of your questions.

[Operator Instructions] Our first question, this evening will be coming from Julien Roch calling from Barclays.

My first question is on the split. In the December press release, you said you will not do split, there was too much tax leakage. So have you found a structure where you expect minimum tax leakage? That's my first question. The second one is Canal+ financial disclosure is very simple. We only have 3 revenues and 1 EBIT. So we don't know the split in France between free and pay, the split of international where Eastern Europe and Africa have completely different growth profiles. We don't have programming costs, we don't have marketing cost. So Canal+ is hard to value and you're about to make it a pure play stock. So will you improve disclosure and organize an Investor Day to have a successful first day of listing with a split? That's my second question. And if we have time for a third one, an update on the disposal of Ticketing.

Okay. Thank you, Julien. First of all, on the split, and we will come back maybe if there are other questions to tell you that we are still working hard to finalize the study of the split to make our final decision. Among the different subjects we are reviewing, obviously, there is a tax ones in which we focus on 2 main impacts, which is, first of all, the impact for Vivendi if this split should be finalized. So we are working hard to ensure ourselves that the impact should be very small at Vivendi level, and we will confirm that in the coming weeks. And we also are working on the impact for the shareholders, and it will depend on the final level of the results and the reserves. So we are reviewing that in order for us to be able to come back to the market and explain the impact on this -- both on Vivendi SE and on the shareholders. Concerning Canal+, I know all your -- I understand all your comments. We keep on giving the same type of information. And obviously, the day when we consider this is no more a study but a real project. Canal+, we organized in order to prepare on Investor Day to introduce all this strategy, including the business plan for the coming year and the way they will be organized. So it's too early to tell you about more detailed figures, but obviously, Canal+ will do that the day the study becomes an actual project.

Ticketing?

Ticketing, sorry, update on the ticketing. So we are still working with some possible buyers and we should be in a position to finalize an offer with 1 of these buyers in the coming days, weeks and then if we consider that we have to refer to the social organization in France, we are targeting a closing of the operation at the end of the first half during the course of June.

We'll now move to Adrien de Saint Hilaire of Bank of America.

I've got first one, which is maybe a bit long, but I was just wondering if there are any other options that the Board -- either the Management Board or the Supervisory Board have considered to unlock the 45% conglomerate discount that you have mentioned Arnaud, or asked a different way, like what are the odds that this plan that was presented in December and updated in January is actually not the final plan. Second question of topic. I'm not sure I understand the rationale of having 2 listed vehicles between Lagardère and a holding company, which would be Lagardère plus Prisma, so if you could perhaps update us on this? And lastly, I think you mentioned in the release that the last vehicle would be focused around rotating its portfolio. When would you expect that rotation to take place? Would it be before the listing of that vehicle? Would it be after? I'd be curious about this.

[Foreign Language], Adrien. Thank you for your question. Well, we have worked on different options, and there are options you can control and are options that you don't control. When thinking about all the process and the work we've been through over the past second semester 2023, we came to a conclusion and then our proposition to the Supervisory Board that the best options to be able to get a steep decrease on the conglomerate discount was what we have suggested. That is to say, as of to date, an organization of the company based on 4 different division. And by the way, when I see the share price performance since the announcement and the evolution since the 30th of January, it seems to be that we have the support of the market. We still have to confirm this project. As mentioned by Francois, we are a work in progress momentum. There are many aspects to be clarified: tax, finance, equity story, social organization and so on and so forth. And as we mentioned in December, we thought that the project would be a 12 to 18 months' time frame. And this is along those lines that we are making progress. So more to be shared and disclosed in due time. There is nothing today that is derailing, should I say. And we are working just to make sure that we are going to recommend as a Management Board the best possible solution for all the Vivendi stakeholder. Then your question about the Lagardère stake that we have, the controlling stake and Prisma will -- there we'll make -- we'll give all the details and the explanation in due time as soon as we have finished our work. And maybe on the investment company and rotation of the assets, Francois?

Yes, rotation of the assets. We are extremely agile. So today, we do not forecast any rotation in the coming months as long as we have no special project. But as we are agile, this rotation could happen after the split or before if we have a special opportunity. So we consider today the split has no major effect. We are always agile, and we will look at all the opportunities in the coming year -- coming months.

Our next question will be coming from Lisa Yang of Goldman Sachs.

I have 3 questions as well. Just on the split, I know you're still working to finalize the details on the tax. How confident are you that this could be tax neutral like based on your initial findings? I understand it's not final. And you mentioned a few steps as well, consolidation with employee presentative bodies, regulatory approvals and discussion with the creators. Like what's the time line, the timing on each of these events? That's the first question. The second one is on the investment company. What basically is the criteria for exiting an asset? And what will be the basically the main areas of reinvestment or would you consider distributing the proceeds back to shareholders? And thirdly, on MultiChoice, I'm just wondering like if you can maybe explain the rational of launching and mandatory offer given the 20% foreign ownership restriction currently? Are you confident this ownership restriction could be lifted? And if so, what could be basically the synergies between MultiChoice and Canal, please?

Okay. Lisa, thank you. On the split, yes, we -- to be fully confident on the no impact -- no tax impact on Vivendi, we just have to know the final value of the different assets. And therefore, we have to finalize the business month, which is not done yet. Nevertheless, based on our current information, we consider that there should not be a major tax impact on Vivendi. Still comparing the value in our books and the estimated listing level for the different business units. For the Invesco, we have not defined yet the strategy, and you know the main asset we got as financial assets, all are very specific situation, including UMG, including Telecom Italia, FLE, all these are very specific. And so we will be, as I said earlier, will be very agile and will decide depending on the opportunities either for disposal or for new acquisition. Maybe, Arnaud, on the MultiChoice?

MultiChoice is a great opportunity for Canal+. And what has been announced is a step forward to be able to build a future together combining Canal+, French-speaking subsided operation with MultiChoice operation. And it's very complementary and offering a great potential equity story. The situation as of today has been enough that has been supported by both the Board and the management team. Teams are currently working on the structure on this MTO, which should be submitted by the 8th of April. As regard to all the details and the equity story, they're going to be disclosed in due time. And as regard to the situation and regulatory situation, and you're referring to the 20%, teams are working together also to be able to comply with the regulation, obviously. So again, more to be disclosed in due time. We have made a big step by the announcement earlier this week. And we are very enthusiastic about the potential which would be triggered by this operation.

Next question today will be coming from Christophe Cherblanc calling from Societe Generale.

Yes. First one is on generative AI and Havas, we had Publicis and WPP giving numbers on the estimated cost to come up with AI capabilities. So what will be the amount for Havas and what will be the impact on the 2024 margin? That's the first question. The second one is on football costs. So the League One auction seems to be lasting longer than expected. So there are many moving parts with Champions League going up. We don't know about sublicensing, League One, you might or might not take part. So what is the goal there? Is it just to have a net football cost, including League One be flat or potentially to make a saving? And the very last one, the third one is for Francois. Maybe I missed it, but it seems the tax rate in '23 was pretty low on an adjusted basis. So what was it? And what should we expect for '24?

[Foreign Language], Christophe. I'm going to start by the first question, and I will hand over to Francois and if he had the thing to add. Generative AI, well, we came -- we are coming with a vision, which is GenAI is an opportunity for the group. The way we are -- and we are implementing AI in different parts of the business. And we are working on the strategic plan that should be clarified anytime soon. And obviously, in the context of the project of reorganization of the company, Havas is a big part of this reorganization. So you can expect things to be clarified. But what is showing that the -- when you see the performance of the Havas and the culture of the company and the way of doing things, we are more based on capacity to move step by step in building alliances. So for instance, trying to prove the pudding with eating. We've got the strategic alliance with Adobe and which provide us with the possibility to apply a kind of a controlled AI expertise within all our operation, which is also benefiting to Vivendi. When you're thinking about content to commerce and what we have done, the strategic alliance that we have announced with Miracle, this great company where we are developing for our clients, a very pragmatic and fit-for-purpose strategy to be able to grow our expertise in that field. And I will add our deal on data management and the direct-to-consumer innovation with the Ocean Group. So it's a few kind of examples that we have implemented. And in our approach, what we want is to find a way which is step by step, enabling to increase our expertise and to provide the best of breed, second to known expertise and strategic advice and implementation for our clients. This is what we are doing with GenAI, and we'll be able to be more specific step by step. But do you want to add something, Francois?

No. Just to tell you that we won't announce any amount as Publicis or WPP. We consider it's quite not an easy one to put into figures. What we know is that -- what we intend is to maintain and to keep on increasing our net margin next year, including this cost for AI that we will have as all the companies will have. But on the other side, we consider we are making savings as well. So we consider it won't have any impact on our margin rate for the coming years.

On your second question, we are there to develop our business and to make money. So Canal+ is a group who is a group that people are happy to work with and to develop a long-term strategic vision. This is what we have done in sports with Formula 1 management, for instance, what we have done with the Premier League in the U.K., that we have announced with PGA in golf and so on and so forth. I'm not going to make the list of the [indiscernible] of all the examples. That Canal+ is a good partner, and we are building successful results in every aspect with our business partner. I should have mentioned rugby, for instance, which is also a great example. There is an exception to that rule, which is the current situation with the French League on football rights. And you know the story, and today, there is a kind of an end of auction. It's now a gray negotiation. We're not part of that. We do consider that we have been badly treated by this x partner. And again, we are following the situation, but we are not part of the process as it is today. And what is done by the great team at Canal under the leadership of Maxime Saada is in any initiatives or anything that could be done in any specific timing whether to build long-term relationship and to make money. And that is going to drive our decision on all those questions as regard to deal with rights -- sports rights owners, always also a bigger U.S. studio as we have done in the past. Maybe on the third question, Francois?

Yes, concerning the tax, we have a 19% tax rate in the course of 2023. It has been positively impacted by a nonrecurring impact. And next year, we expect to come back to a more recurrent rate around 25%.

We'll now move to Conor O'Shea of Kepler Cheuvreux.

Yes. A couple of questions on Havas. First of all, just wondering how you adjust for organic growth in hyperinflation countries because if you look at the contribution from Lat Am, albeit a smaller region, given the growth level, it's really quite significant. So just wondering how you adjust for that, particularly in countries like Argentina. Secondly, if we could maybe have a guidance, maybe I missed it on Havas sort of a range, organic growth or margins, which you might expect for 2024. And then last question, just in terms of the timing of understanding that this is still under consideration, but in relation to the publishing unit, the fact that you've extended the option period for Lagardère shareholders until June 2025. Does that have any bearing on the timing of your own spin-off given the potential to have 2 listed publishing units with essentially the same assets?

Thank you, Conor. Concerning the inflation, let's -- as I said earlier, the main part of the increase comes from Argentina -- Mexico and Brazil, which are not that high inflation rates. And you're right, there has been a very high inflation in Argentina but we feel that with the hyperinflation methods. And therefore, we -- the organic growth is not impacted by this level of inflation in Argentina. Concerning the guidance, we do not give a precise guidance, but we still have the ambition to keep on increasing our margin rates and to be able to grow, maybe not at the pace we did last year, but we still intend to be in positive organic growth, let's say, above 2%, depending on the performance of the different business units.

On your third question, Conor. No, the extension of the period was based on the possibility to get a full year of results and performance to provide the shareholder to make a decision with all due information. This will not have an impact on the timing that will be implemented as regard to the Vivendi split. Thank you.

Next question will be coming from Silvia Cuneo calling from Deutsche Bank.

A couple of questions from my side. The first one also on the portfolio split. And in particular, on the time line, you highlighted the 12 to 18 months from December 2023. I was wondering if you are considering to split the portfolio into the different assets at different times? For example, once you are ready with Canal, could you go ahead with that and then proceed with the other 3? Or are you planning to do them all together? And then the second question is on the outlook. I know you talked already a little bit about Havas, but since in the release, you commented about the first few months of 2024 confirming continued good trends. Do you want to call out some businesses in particular? And what you expect maybe for Canal growth that hasn't been discussed as much.

So on the split, we aim today if we finalize the study to do all the operation roughly at the same time, but it's not something which is 100% sure. We could do that in different way. But I think the simpler will be to do all the different IPOs, or different listing on the same moments.

And on your second question, we don't provide any guidance. What we can say is that we have had a good start of the year, and it's all across the group.

We'll now move to Adam Berlin of UBS.

I've got 3 questions on Canal+, please. The first one is, what should we be thinking about Canal+ EBIT next year when the League One writes -- assuming the League One rights expire, how much of that EUR 300 or so million of benefit should flow into the Canal+ EBITA for 2024? That's the first question. Second question is you didn't have much organic growth in Canal+ International in 2023 despite showing some good subscriber growth. Is that because of currency effects in Africa? Or is there some other reason why the revenues are not growing in line with the number of subscribers? And the third question is in the cash flow statement in the release, there's EUR 120 million outflow from content investments. That's down from EUR 198 million last year, but still quite a sizable number. Is that going to continue to decline in 2024? And what explicit -- is that Studiocanal investments in movies or something like that? Can you just tell us what that relates to?

Thank you for your questions. Concerning Canal+, obviously, we will make savings on League One during the second half because the last contract ends at the end of June, but there won't be a direct impact of this saving on the EBIT as knowing that in the same times, we invested in the Ligue de Champion or Champions League rights. So we are computing all this to see the final balance, but we still intend to keep on growing the EBITA of Canal+, but not taking as a full saving the impact of the League One. Concerning the 2023 subscriber base, the pace of growth has been not as high as before in international, mainly in Africa. And I would say it's a phasing effect due to some timing. Last year, we had the World Cup at the end of the year. And this year, we have the Cannes International that was early 2024. And I would say that the quite slow growth during the end of the year 2023 has been followed by a very strong growth early 2024 with the impact of the Cannes. So I would say just phasing impact. The last question concerning Canal+ content, which was stable between '22 and 2023 and should remain roughly stable in the coming years.

Ladies and gentlemen, that will conclude today's Q&A session. And I'd like to turn the call back over to Mr. de Puyfontaine for any additional or closing remarks.

Well, thank you very much for this conference and on behalf of Francois and I and our team wish you good evening, and we shall be reconvening end of July for our first half results. Before then, have a great evening. Thank you very much, indeed.

Thank you. Bye, bye.

That will conclude today's conference. Thank you for your attendance. You may now disconnect. Have a good day, and goodbye.