VNV Global AB (publ) (VNV) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

All right. Welcome to VNV Global's First Quarter 2025 Report Conference Call. On the call today, we have Per Brilioth, CEO; Dennis Mohammad, Investment Manager; and myself, Bjorn Von Sivers, the CFO of the company. I will start with a brief intro to the quarter, and then I'll follow up with a quick run through on the financial highlights and the main drivers of the NAV movements during the quarter. Following that, we'll do a portfolio run down led by Per and with the help of Dennis. And with that, I'll hand over to you, Per. Before that, I just want to remind everyone, if you want to ask a question, use the Zoom Q&A function, and we'll address those towards the end. Per, please go ahead.

Thank you. I'll flip some slides here. Yes. So welcome, everyone. Thanks, Bjorn. And it's sort of an uneventful quarter, we're down 2.5% in dollar terms. Bjorn will go through the details of how sort of that development stacks up. I -- it's sort of speaking about this over the course of the day and earlier, but it's sort of obviously the sector we've been -- we are in sort of have that big sort of move COVID years and then on the back of the Ukraine war, cap costs going up, sort of big move down, big move up, big move down. And it's sort of from -- it's reminiscent from earlier sort of booms and busts, if you will, that it takes a little -- it takes a little time to sort of gather a new momentum to go up again. But it feels like we're in that sort of phase where it's sort of bumbling along at the bottom. I don't know famous last words and everything, but that certainly -- I think it's fair to say that -- that's certainly what it feels like right now. So sort of a flattish quarter. Of course, macro wise, a ton of stuff that's going on. And to an extent that you sort of see us and the sector, or in the part of the capital markets that we are involved in as high risk. I mean -- and that's somewhat debatable, I think. I mean that will show later. As we've shown before, 80% of the portfolio's earnings positive -- EBITDA positive. So of course, once upon a time, those companies were very young and did not make money, but they do make money now. So it's, I guess, at least lower risk portfolio than it was or other portfolios, which are not earnings positive, income positive. But nevertheless, when there's volatility in the world, I guess it's fair that higher-risk assets sort of gets sort of not prioritized. And of course, there's a lot of movement in the world with the stuff that's going on in the U.S. and the big currencies and big asset classes moving around very sort of violently. So from that perspective, I guess, we're somewhat affected. But given that the portfolio is sort of earnings positive, then it's not like one of our larger holdings sort of absolutely needs to access capital markets now and capital -- the capital market seems sort of open, but to the extent that they are not -- and certainly IPOs here in Stockholm for example, or Swedish-based companies, I should say, have been sort of postponing their IPOs. So at least there's some -- there may be some activity around capital -- around sort of our product capital markets, but when IPOs get pushed off, it's a sign of that they're somewhat close. But so it doesn't really affect us. So the other thing we've been trying to highlight is that the fall of the dollar doesn't affect the portfolio as such. Most -- if most of our portfolio -- if you if you look at our NAV and you weight the portfolio on the back of of the NAV, or the revenues, most of our revenue, so to say, is in euros, it's 40% in euros and then we got some pounds and shekels et cetera. And it's only sub-10% that is in U.S. dollars, so not a big effect there. We, of course, have this big chunk of cash coming ROA, and we'll get transactions, and I'll come back to that when we talk about Gett. But really, apart from the sort of if the dollar is going to go down by half, if that movement is very violent, then of course, all capital markets are stopped for a while. But -- but it's not a smooth sort of -- if the dollar depreciates over in a smoother way than our portfolio at large is not that affected. Anyway, that's a long winding into some stuff that seems sort of very topical around capital markets in general that are specifically. So we'll come back to more details but -- and on that detailed note we'll -- Bjorn, let's go over to your -- to our balance sheet and NAV movements here?

Sure. And as Per showed on the previous slide for NAV was SEK 5.7 billion or $570 million as per end of March. And this corresponds to NAV per share of SEK 43.36, down 11.17% in SEK, and down $2.5. So the FX moving during the quarter. And this decline -- a small decline in dollar terms of the NAV is mainly driven by BlaBlaCar, our largest holding, as well as FX and then some was cushioned by volume that has moved the opposite direction upwards on that side. Cash equivalents -- cash and cash equivalents as of March 31 stood at some $13.6 million, compared to $15.7 million at year-end. And big mover here borrowings, which is our outstanding SEK 850 million outstanding bond. That increased to $84.7 million as of Q1, compared to $77 million as at year-end. And highlighting here also that we're currently still trading at a large discount to NAV 60% plus. And if we move to the next slide, just highlighting the top companies here. So BlaBlaCar is down 8%, driven by lower peer multiples and the continued headwinds in France related to the energy savings certificates, which Per mentioned in the MD intro. BlaBlaCar presents approximately SEK 14.7 per share, or 34% of the NAV. Voi, on the other hand, moved upwards, the valuation moved higher because, I mean, driven by strong operational metrics, also slightly higher peer multiples and Voi is approximately SEK 8.4 and some 20% of the NAV. Yet again, remains flat, still valid on the basis of the ongoing transaction, which I think Per will touch upon. And the deal again is still under review by the Israeli Competition Authority and Gett represents from SEK 6.4 per share, or 15% of the NAV at this transaction. And in total, these 3 largest holdings, BlaBlaCar, Voi and Gett represent just under 70% of the total NAV. Below those, there's little absolute movements, some larger relative movements in the portfolio, but I thought I'll skip that and go into specific holds in the Q&A, if relevant. But with that, I'll hand over to Per and Dennis, who will go through a summary of the larger holdings and the developments during the quarter.

Excellent. So as Bjorn said, we still trade at a 60% plus discount. And I guess it's maybe more art than science. So what's the background to that? I mean, certainly, maybe, certainly sort of the mood around the sort of the tech sector outside AI and outside sort of the big trade names is still [ Somber ] and again, sort of bundling around at the bottom. I think as this maybe NAV development and sort of the discount NAV shows. But another point, I think to mention that we usually mention is that if you look at us from afar, you probably think that you're looking at a portfolio that's not profitable. But as we've shown that has changed materially over these past couple of years and also over the last year. So 81% of the portfolio is EBITDA positive. And -- which includes EBIT positive Voi, again, the only sort of part of our portfolio that where once you talk about EBIT because they own and depreciate these scooters. So this should not be a recent that we have sort of a portfolio that creates a lot of cash. So you're left with sort of sentiment around the sector overall. Small cap liquidity all that, but also the big sort of cash outflow, of course, paying now -- paying back our debt. That debt now matures in the autumn of 2027. And again, we'll come back to that when we talk about debt, as the source of funding to pay down the debt in the near term. But the portfolio at large, is very familiar, sort of picture I think, Gett -- Bjorn went through the actual holdings here. So nothing really new. We thought we'd sort of concentrate on the larger names. So first off, BlaBlaCar, not that much to talk about in this quarter. We've taken out these energy savings certificates, the long distance ones. because there's some short distance too, but the long distance once have gone from our model. And -- and yes, it's -- they've been gone for so long. So we don't calculate with them at any value. They may come back. They should come back. The current sort of political atmosphere in France is so focused on the budget. And so this sort of -- this sort of product or focus on climate at large, I think it's fair to say it becomes very secondary. Now there's -- who knows how long this government lasts. Someone said there was talk about new elections in the autumn. But anyway, we -- if they come back, that will be upside to our model, we've taken them out. And yes, the company sort of growth in Europe is sort of nothing to write home about. Growth in emerging markets is something very much to write home about. That's very, very strong. We're excited about that. And that's the sort of the real driver of the long-term value here, of course, the marketplace for long distance travel. In fact, the sort of energy savings certificate that income stream is sort of a by monetization. Its a nice extra. It has been a nice extra -- actually it has been a nice extra. In France -- well, in Spain, it's just starting. So it still is a nice extra, but the real value is, of course, monetizing the marketplace as such, and that's growing very healthily, especially in emerging markets. One other thing that I think is especially relevant to BlaBlaCar is that if we're now heading into sort of lower growth cycle, or maybe even a recession in some parts of the world, then this product, as many of ours in the portfolio are nearly of a countercyclical sort of nature where BlaBlaCar specifically, it's very much about cost sharing. So you -- and when times are tough, you want to cost save more, or say, cost more. More proper English, say the cost -- share the cost of petrol for long distance or a car ride. We extracted some numbers from the company that -- and we highlighted them in the report that during the course of 2024 alone, there's like 500 -- and I think it's $540 million or EUR 540 million saved by the passengers of BlaBlaCar. And so there's an element of counter cyclicality around BlaBlaCar, which I think is important to note when we're facing sort of maybe slower economic growth at large. Otherwise, I mean, even though it is not so much to report about at BlaBlaCar in this quarter, we remain very sort of excited. And I think one figure that just stood out from that when we put it into our report and is that we're expecting 150 million passengers on this platform during the quarter of 2025. So we can sort of sense enormous amount of activity at the company. Second out is Voi, and Dennis is ready to sort of update you all on Voi.

Thank you, Per. Yes, as I believe most of you know, Voi a leading market mobility operator in Europe. In Q1, we wrote up Voi roughly 9%, as Bjorn mentioned, driven by a combination of multiples, FX and underlying company performance. As a reminder, the company closed 2024 with roughly EUR 133 million in net revenue, reflecting almost 13% growth on top line year-over-year, with accelerated growth in Q4, which came in at roughly 33% growth year-over-year. And we also closed the year with EUR 17.2 million in adjusted EBITDA. And for the first time in the company's history, a slightly positive adjusted EBIT at around EUR 100,000, which we expect to grow coming into 2025. During the fourth quarter, they also, as we've already talked about, raised a EUR 50 million bond which enables non-dilutive growth financing for growth CapEx. But it also means that we will only be able to report the company's financial performance with a 3-month lag. So their Q1 report is due to come out the last week of May. So we will be able to share those numbers in our Q2 report. But we will also, of course, when that report is out, issue a press release to make you aware of those numbers. So in this quarterly report, we don't have the Q1 figures to share, as of yet. However, Q1 was strong in terms of, at least tender performance, we can say. Both -- well, 2 contracts highlights are one in Oslo. Oslo is one of the best markets for shared market mobility globally. And the new contracts, which they recently won, or they won during the first quarter of this year, saw fleet size doubling, the contract lengths doubling and the operational area tripling versus the previous contract Voi won the contract, came in #1 of all applicants. We think this is great news, not only because of Voi now gets to continue to operate in Oslo, which is an even better city than ever before, but we also think it serves as a good example of the general direction and regulations in Europe, where the few operators that remain get a more favorable operating environment essentially. The other contract we mentioned is for all stockhomers who are shareholders of VNV that Voi also won an e-bike contract in Stockholm. It's been quite a few years since we had a functioning e-bike scheme in Stockholm, and we're very happy that Voi was one of the two operators selected to operate that one. If you hop to the next slide, Per. You've already seen this slide before, but as you know, in the last couple of years, Voi has been on quite a journey, both in terms of growth, which you see on the far left graph, which showcases revenues. But also in terms of margins, you see the vehicle profit margin going from 31% in 2020, to 57% in 2024, which is essentially the gross margin of the business. And I think this has, in combination with more frugal mindset on HQ costs, has led to an adjusted EBITDA margin of 13%, and I think we need to go -- and the EBIT margin as of last year, driven by improved vehicles, more optimized for shared market mobility with a longer lifetime, and improved operations as well. Looking forward into 2025 and beyond, we expect a higher growth rate than the one from last year at around 13%, driven to a large degree by the growth CapEx that's enabled by the bond, as mentioned, but also by the underlying growth in the shared market -- mobility market in Europe. I think that's in Voi.

Thanks. And then third out is Gett where, of course yes, the transaction is the thing to talk about. We -- yes, we are really in the final stages. I think the last sort of communication -- we're really in the final stages of this transaction, whereby I think the last thing you saw from us where we updated you that the ICA is really competitive authorities, the antitrust over there and sort of issued a list of concerns of the merger, i.e., whereby this parking app Pango buys Gett ride-hailing. So very intuitively not an issue for competition, whereas parking and ride-hailing are 2 very different businesses. But nevertheless, there's some concerns around that merger and we're in process now of addressing those concerns. And I say we, but it's not really we, it's more, of course, the buyer who -- Pango that is addressing the concerns of the antitrust authorities. I think it's fair to describe that people around the table are very positive that this transaction will close, that there will be -- that one will be able to address concerns -- these concerns put on the table by the ICA. So -- and that's very intuitive is sort of very easy to understand, I guess -- I guess you all wonder why it's taken this long, and that's I think you're not alone in that. But I guess the point is that now we're -- as we have said that we expect this to close in the second quarter. We're in the second quarter. And really, the timetable around this is really a few weeks left on the transaction where we -- when we read the sentiment around the table, we think it will close. Given that it hasn't closed yet, you want to -- you all wonder so what happens if it doesn't close. And if it doesn't close, it's really not a bad scenario in some cases, even a good scenario because obviously, the sort of $83 million of heading our way, $70 million now and then $13 million over a few years, is in dollars. And that's a currency that, I mean, I'm not good at sort of forecasting currencies, but if I read what everyone is saying, the dollar seems to be heading down. So -- and so -- and obviously, the company generates its revenues in British pounds and mostly in shekels in Israel. So not dollars. So there's a disconnect there. Also, the company is in good shape. It's generating cash, the cash pile at the company's balance sheet is increasing. And so if we -- if this transaction does not close, we still expect it to close, and us communicating around this in the next couple of weeks. But if it doesn't close, we expect the confidence to be in a position to sort of upstream dividends to its shareholders where we own just under half to quite a large degree where we have a meaningful sort of degree for us in relation to our paying down our debt and still then retaining the same sort of ownership in a company that really is doing well, and that maybe also have upside from the price which we have signed to sell it at. So if I -- don't get me wrong. I -- we expect this to close. We -- that's the sentiment that we read around the table on the transaction. And we are in the sort of very, very final innings, stages of this transaction. We expect to sort of know in the next couple of weeks. But if it's in the unlikely scenario, I should say that it doesn't close. I -- it is very likely both liquidity coming our way and potentially also upside. So this, of course, this risk with everything, Israel, of course is in a very volatile part of the world. It's still at war, et cetera, et cetera. So that's the counterbalance against this upside. But it's -- yes, it's a good plan B. Yes. I think that sort of covers Gett. And last, we sort of in the report highlights a little bit around Numan because it's grown to become quite a large part of our position. And Dennis spend a lot of time around Numan. So I think you best -- could you walk us through the latest stuff on Numan?

Sure. So as I believe most of you know, Numan is a health platform specializing today on around obesity and personalized health care, and their history has been -- had a lot of focus on male health issues, such as erectile disfunctions, hair loss et cetera, but they are now evolved into a unisex brand really. Much driven by their weight loss offerings, centered around GLP-1 treatments, which has driven significant growth in the past 2 years. To date, Numan has treated over 100,000 patients for obesity with over 60% of those being female patients. The company has had a very strong start to 2025, with revenues growing close to 200% year-over-year in the first couple of months of '25. This is on the back of the 2024 that grew roughly 130% for the full year. So just to give you a picture of the growth here. And they are EBITDA positive since last year as well. In this quarter, we have -- we're carrying roughly flat versus the previous quarter and I believe it's down 1% in our NAV.

Good. Thank you, Dennis, and Bjorn. So I think that gets us to Q&A. Bjorn, do you want to walk us through how we...

Yes, sure. Again, if you want to ask a question, just use the Q&A function, or raise your hand. I will try some live questions as well. I think we have 1 or 2 from Ramili at Danske Bank. I'll open your mic now. If you're there, Ramil, please go ahead.

Just to wrap my head around this debt transaction. First off, just a clarification. Have you had any opportunity of sort of leaving the table at any point so included in the initial contract you wrote to the buyers?

No. I mean, no, we're still under -- we're in the sort of -- we're still governed by an SPA, which is signed and done basically. But it doesn't live forever. And that's the end of that SPA sort of coincides now by -- by planning with the with the end of the sort of interactions with the antitrust over there. So we're bound by that SPA for another few weeks.

Okay. Okay. So I apologize, because I don't know what the SPA is in this context.

SPA is a sale and purchase agreement. So we signed an agreement to sell the whole company to the buyer. And that agreement is -- it's nothing that buyer or seller can exit from, but it doesn't last forever.

Okay. So with competition authorities haven't -- or put it this way, the buyers and the competition authorities haven't agreed on concessions, you are allowed to leave the table, so to say, at some point?

Exactly. Exactly.

And when is that Per?

We haven't communicated the exact date, but it's well within the second quarter.

Okay. Okay. Because just looking at these numbers, you've provided on Gett, I mean you're selling it at 10x EBITDA, including earn-outs that will be paid out over a 3-year period. So -- and it is the fact that sort of market leaders in quite developed market. Do you see my -- I mean -- are you really pushing for this to go through? I know it's a very candid question, but trying to understand the change.

No, Ramil, I mean, it's a very valid sort of topic and we believe it is something that's been sort of discussed here, but we did sell this.

I mean it's a year ago, even where we sort of signed this. And we were, of course, invite you so, I think, very focused on selling assets from the portfolio in order to sort of pay down the debt. We don't think that debt is -- I mean our financial strategy is to fund our work with equity, not debt, and we use debt as a bridge to an exit. And of course, we had a couple of exits that still work out during sort of the volatility that we saw a few years ago. So I think that I actually stand behind that and feel that was the right thing to do. Of course, we signed this agreement at the price we sold it at -- I mean, the agreement, during a period when Israel and the war was in a more [indiscernible] phase than now. So that's, of course, the positive. We hope it stays positive. But -- yes. So yes, we're -- we have -- we -- I think it was the right thing to do to sell it at the price we sold it at. I mean I think the -- it's -- but we're not -- it should be transaction -- should the ICA not say -- should they not want to approve this within the sort of the time frame of the SPA then it's an asset that we're at this stage, very happy to keep on owning. But I also feel that if it now gets concluded, which we think it will, then it allows us to move beyond debt, which I think has a positive implications for our balance sheet, of course, but also how we viewed the threat of sort of paying down the debt and how do you fund that? And I sort of again, more art than science, but I sort of feel that, that has -- that's sort of a drag on we trade in relation to NAV. So it will be good to have that behind us. And although the price was negotiated a year ago and the company is doing well. I think -- I really think that, that will be -- they'll be positive for how we value the portfolio at large and we can sort of move beyond that. But it's not -- but it's absolutely not the end of the world. If it doesn't happen because we will be able to upstream dividends and without going into exact sizes because that's not been decided yet, of course, because we're under -- we're living under this FDA. I really feel that we can do sort of -- we can with dividends alone sort of materially reduce our debt and then sell the company a few years down the road before this sort of bond matures well within time frame of the remaining duration of this bond. So yes, so -- it's -- yes, we're still under this SPA. That's good. We think it will be concluded. If it doesn't, there's probably upside to be gained here. Sorry, I started babbling on so much.

It's good, But no, no, it's -- because it sounds like the end of the world is perhaps -- well, we're closer to the end of the world if the deal closes at current terms than if you didn't to you in terms of shareholder value creation. So just to get this very clear, and you did allude to it on the presentation, but you're not willing to give any concessions to the competition authorities to get the deal through the i.e., sort of give away more of your upside here, talk to the buyer to make sure that the deal goes through?

Yes, yes, it's not for us to make concessions to the antitrust authorities. It's for the buyer to make concessions. I mean we just own Gett. And then I think the antitrust -- the competition authorities have -- as we expressed in our press release, they have raised concerns. If you combine it with this parking app called Pango, by the buyer, that's the issue. So it's the owner of Pango, which will then ultimately be the owner of Gett that has to sort of have to address these concerns with concessions or you speak about remedies, et cetera. That's the -- it's really on them. It's not really on us to do anything, if that makes any sense to you.

Yes. Yes. Okay. And then maybe two more questions, if I may on the general portfolio. What kind of path to value crystallization do you see during 2025 outside of Gett? Are there any assets you believe you could sort of exit, or partially exit to show the -- improve the values here?

Well, there are -- we're in the process of doing some exits in some smaller positions. And you could call it more as a sort of cleaning up of the portfolio or there's a bunch of smaller stuff that's doing well and that we are we are going to be able to exit and in a similar sort of fashion to the tail end of last year, where we sold some also some smaller positions and that gave us cash, and maybe not enormous cash if you compare it to the overall NAV, but still material cash for our liquidity right now in addressing that. And so I expect it to be that there'll be sort of a movement on liquidity in a positive way to us, which we will then provided that we're out of that, be able to sort of use to buy back stock, for example. And I don't -- I don't really expect any sort of IPOs to happen in any of our companies during the course 2025. I think in a year's time, in the middle '26, there could be all sort of roads of IPOs, maybe still a touch early. It all depends on how the world is looking, of course. There are some IPOs that have been postponed of sort of big Swedish names, [ Klarna ], of course, but it's sort of more sort of IPOs and that kind of sort of proving up or the NAV is more like a year away. Having said that, of course, we do see that parts of the portfolio. I mean, a big chunk of the portfolio is doing quite well. And may be raising money for aggressive purposes and hence at valuations which are fair. And we think we've sort of -- we have our portfolio pretty much at where it should be, the NAV. The auditors listening into this call will say that we're exactly at the right value. But there's a plus and there's a minus. But I think we're roughly fair. So what I'm trying to say is that there could be sort of -- I wouldn't rule out that there are perceptions in some of the portfolio names where these companies raise money to grow faster or would have you at valuations where we are sort of happy to be dilutive because they're around the NAV levels and that will also be helpful for these companies, or over helpful for us because they'll prove up the NAV. Nothing is sort of -- I mean we obviously can't talk about anything it's done. And so we'll talk about that. It's but those kind of transactions I wouldn't rule out, but they wouldn't necessarily be listing. That's probably more like a year away.

Okay. And then maybe a final one for Dennis on Numan. Do you see any sort of regulatory risk pertaining to the fact GLP-1 prescription and methodologies are being questioned somewhat in media and what not?

I think that differs from geography to geography. In the U.K., as far as I'm aware, there hasn't been any questioning in terms of in terms of the prevalence of the drug and the usage of the drug. Obviously, it's still pretty no hold right, and there are being -- studies are being made as we speak. Most of them are coming up very positive. Obviously, there will be questions around side effects, which might impact that further down the line, the risk is not zero. That regulations might impact Numan, but the current outlook is pretty good. There's some stuff specifically in the U.K. around how these drugs can be prescribed and what kind of interaction is required between the prescriber and the patient. And this is something that can -- we view it as a positive if it actually is enforced in the U.K., so making it a bit more stringent compared to what it was last year. But yes, it's massively growing. It's very early days. There's no -- it's not a zero risk event that regulations would impact us. But so far in the U.K., it's looking -- it's looking quite well.

We will move forward with some of the other questions we see there first. I can take one short one on the -- on the debt position. So the debt, as I mentioned, increased from $77 million to $85 million over the quarter, and that has everything to do with that debt of bond is denominated in SEK. So SEK appreciated quite a lot during the quarter versus the dollar and as we report in dollars, it's increased. So it's just FX. And then moving on from that, we have a question from [indiscernible] In the annual report, you mentioned that the top 5 holdings were growing by 25% on average in 2025. Has the current macro volatility change that outlook? Or do you still see that type of growth? And which are the top 5 holdings many contributors are growing the fastest currently?

Yes. I wouldn't say that, that outlook has changed due to the macro. Maybe even on the point around BlaBlaCar counter cyclicality that is maybe even changed for the better. But -- but it's maybe a little bit too early to say if it's really sort of growing faster because of countercyclical sort of elements to it. But we do see -- I mean, the two standouts here are the ones that was covered it's Voi. It's growing faster than where we expected it to grow. Even now in the first quarter and Dennis mentioned they did raise capital, and there's some -- there's a lag between when you raise the capital, you do the orders and you get the sort of equipment down on the street and they can earn money. So we still have that somewhat ahead of us. And so that's exciting. And then, of course, Numan. And yes, [indiscernible] one being sort of maybe a novel product in many ways and maybe sort of the institutional part of Capital Markets doesn't feel it's been around long enough to sort of really give it full value, certainly not in sort of the platform places around this like Numan or Hims because these companies, I mean, I'm not the expert on Hims, but Numan is growing a lot and the regulatory sort of wins, or the overall sort of sentiment, at least sort of on a -- I don't know what do you say, on a clinical sort of level, you see it like these products are having more health benefits than going sort of in a positive direction rather than that being what people are afraid about that there are some side effects, et cetera, that will sort of start to sort of limit the usage of it. It's more -- the wind seems to be more positive, but it's a young product. So does it get sort of that full value that you would if you -- whilst you are growing as they are. Sorry, long-winding answer, but the short answer is we -- I think that still stands and maybe there's even a push to the upside.

And I may add there Per, I think it's also worth highlighting between Numan, between BlaBlaCar, Housing Anywhere and Voi. These are quite seasonal businesses with high season coming in Q2, Q3. So I think we'll -- the year isn't really out yet. We'll know the outcome rather towards the end of the year. But to Per's point, I don't think the alpha has changed with Q1 data alone, which is worth highlighting that they have the majority of the revenues coming in the coming 2 quarters.

Good. And then there's a follow-up question on Gett here. In the unlikely event that Gett transaction does not close, can you provide some color at all around the quantum of the expected distribution you think you can receive from the company?

It's a little early to get into those kind of details. But because there's well, number one, the company has a larger cash position on its balance sheet. And I think a large chunk of that can be distributed pretty quickly. And that -- but that will get you like 20%, 25% of the sort of or the exit price, if you will. And then -- but then as you make this sort of balance sheet 20%, 25% -- yes, something like that. Call it, 15% to 20%. I mean, something like that. But then you have a balance sheet that's very inefficient in that there's no debt. It's a cash flow positive business and that kind of situation, that kind of balance sheet. That kind of company should be able to sort of to hold and service quite a lot of that to -- for equity holders to sort of -- to maximize their value. So there should be more sort of dividend streams spending from sort of a more efficient balance sheet. So -- but it's a little too early to go into the exact details, but a material amount. So yes, I mean, you get the picture if this thing doesn't close. And again, I think it will close. But if it doesn't, it seems pretty good.

Good. And then there's some other questions that we already covered. I think we'll move through the questions we've received. So with that, I'll leave it to you, Per, to say some final remarks.

Some final remarks Bjorn, yes. That's good. I think we have our AGM on the 14th of May. Please come to that if you're around, or I think I can log in, can I log in? Anyway at the AGM, you're all welcome. That's here in Stockholm. The next quarterly, Dennis has kindly informed me, that's on the 17th of July, 17th of July, yes. So we'll do this kind of exercise again for the second quarter. By then, we won't talk about Gett anymore. It will be done, or it will be still with us. And we then we'll talk Gett. But anyway, you get the picture. And then I don't think we've sort of set the dates in stone that we are -- we like -- we think -- we hope it's useful to have Capital Markets Days. And we are planning one again this year. Sort of sketchily planned for mid-September in London, and that may move around a little bit also geography-wise. But 16, 17 of September is what we have intended in our calendar. So yes, hopefully, we can sort of firm that up and can get you -- sort of get that into your calendars in ink, and I'll see you there. Anyway, so thanks. You know where to reach out if there's anything you -- we can help you with in the meantime. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.