Webuild S.p.A. (WBD) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning. This is the Chorus Call conference operator. Welcome, and thank you for joining the Webuild Full Year 2024 Financial Results Conference Call. Our call today is hosted by Pietro Salini, Chief Executive Officer; together with Massimo Ferrari, General Manager. [Operator Instructions] At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Mr. Pietro Salini, Chief Executive Officer. Please go ahead, sir.

Thank you. Good morning, everyone. Welcome to our conference call on Webuild's 2024 full year results. I'm Pietro Salini, Chief Executive of the Group; and will be Massimo Ferrari, our General Manager. It is a pleasure to be here today to share with you a strong set of numbers and provide you with an update of the group's strategy and targets. Let's start with Slide 4 with some highlights of the results. We have once again proven our strong execution capabilities by significantly exceeding our guidance for 2024, staying true to our approach of underpromising and overdelivering. Revenues stood at EUR 12 billion, 20% higher than 2023. That means that we have already exceeded our 2025 revenue target by over EUR 1 billion. Our EBITDA reached record highs at EUR 967 million, an 18% increase versus the previous year. In 2024, we achieved double-digit growth in both revenues and margins. This is the fourth consecutive year that we have done so. Despite various macroeconomic challenges, we have been able to maintain a net cash position since 2021, ensuring financial stability. The group's net cash was EUR 1.4 billion, evenly higher investment for future growth and cash generation. At the same time, we have further strengthened our financial structure by improving gross leverage, positioning us among the best-in-class compared to industry peers. We generated a net profit of EUR 247 million, improving on the already excellent results achieved in 2023. Following this, we proposed an increase of 14% of our dividend. In addition to revenues, we reached another target a year ahead of time. We have already secured 100% of our planned 2023-2025 order intake, entering 2025 with a backlog of EUR 63 billion. It's one of the highest in the industry. A significant share of that comes for low -- from low-risk markets. In health and safety, we are proud to be ranked #1 among our peers with the lowest indices. It is a recognition of our dedication to the well-being of our -- the group employees. Our ability to attract top talent remains unmatched. 13,000 professionals were hired in the past year, more than half of whom under 35 years of age. Thanks to the daily work and commitment of over 92,000 employees, both direct and indirect, we manage 148 active construction sites in 50 countries. Over 17,500 companies across our supply chain collaborate with us. Turning to Slide 5, let's go through some of our operational achievements. In 2024, we delivered transformative infrastructure that impacts millions of lives. Key projects completed include Milano Metro Line 4, which reduced congestion in the city, Thessaloniki first metro, which revolutionized transportation in the region, and Riyadh Metro 3, which brings faster, more sustainable mobility to the country. These are engineering marvels shaping a better future for all of these cities. Since 2012, we have successfully completed over 330 projects. Increasingly, clients are suiting us as their partner of choice due to our proven ability to deliver. This is reflected in our strong position in industry ranking across key regions. Let's move to Slide 6. The results achieved in 2024 are not a onetime event. They are the result of a clear, consistent strategy that reported since 2012. We strengthened our business model through engineering excellence, attracting top talent, reaching best-in-class in health and safety, investing in innovation, centralizing key processes such as bidding a supply chain and deploying a rigorous approach to risk management. All these efforts have led to the creation of a solid platform from which to capitalize on the trends in a market that is enormous in scale. We are well positioned to further increase our long-term value. Our strategy is clear, make the most of the opportunities created by global mega trends that are fueling major infrastructure investment. We will continue to focus on cash generation, risk reduction and project delivery optimization. We will be doing all of this without forgetting how we are creating a positive and lasting impact on society and the environment for future generations. Turning to Slide 7. Our construction order backlog stands at EUR 54 billion at the end of 2024, among the highest in the industry. This backdrop gives us a clear visibility of future revenues. The geographic distribution of the order backlog is a result of the derisking strategy that we have purchased in our commercial activity. Around 90% comes from low-risk markets. Italy take the biggest share of 46%, followed by Australia at 18%. As regards of our commitment to sustainable development, nearly all our backlog is dedicated to achieving goals set by the United Nations. More than 70% is related to sustainable mobility projects. Moving to Slide 8. We acquired EUR 13 billion worth of new orders in 2024. That has allowed us to secure over EUR 35 billion of new orders and exceeding the targets under our 2023-2025 plan. 80% of new orders comes from outside Italy. In Saudi Arabia, we won a jumbo contract to build the Trojena dams, but there are also projects in France and Australia. In the first month of 2025, we've been selected as the best bidders for EUR 2.5 billion of tenders. On Slide 9, as we look ahead, the infrastructure market continues to be driven by long-term megatrends that are shaping the future of our industry, despite short-term geopolitical development. This include a need to fight climate change, achieve energy and water security, rapid urbanization, operational growth and the digitalization. Government and private investors worldwide are committing unprecedented resource to those areas. As demonstrated by our track record, we offer a wide range of products to seize these opportunities. Slide 10 shows how the infrastructure sector average growth rate for the next 4 years is expected to strongly outperform GDP growth in all our core markets. This is also a key data that points out that the sector is contributing positively to the GDP growth in all the areas in which we operate. Taking a look at our short-term commercial pipeline, it amounts to approximately EUR 126 billion, including tender submitted and awaiting outcome for EUR 54 billion and tenders of EUR 15 billion under preparation to be presented. Let's move to Slide 11 for some color on our prospects across our core geographies. In Italy, the infrastructure market is expected to be driven by some strategic initiatives. Investments are expected in multiple sectors, including railways, such as some new sections of the Salerno, Reggio Calabria high-speed rail line, Metro, sports stadium, hospitals, data center and water infrastructure. In Rome, there is a completion of the Metro City and then further investment in metro lines in touring and other cities. In Australia, the group is among the country's top 5 contractors and is ready to seize the opportunities offered by a growing market, driven primarily by the energy sector. In addition to transport infrastructure in hydropower, investments are expected to remain strong in energy distribution through new transmission lines and is also the construction of hospitals and the development of the water sector, such as desalination plant. Then there is the development of the Brisbane area with potentially new stadium and railway project ahead of the 2032 Olympic and Paraolympic games. In Saudi Arabia, we are in a unique position to capitalize on the unprecedented investment being made in mega projects. These investments are being driven by the Saudi Vision 2030 program as well as 2034 FIFA World Cup and Expo 2030, a boost is expected in the coming years in metros, railway stadium, airports and other buildings. In North America, we are taking the necessary steps to optimize our operations and bring us a subsidiary laying back to profitability. The infrastructure market in this region is massive. In the United States, the new administration favor private sector involvement in infrastructure, creating opportunities for public-private partnership. The focus is on roads, bridges, hydroelectric projects. In Canada, the focus is on the light rail and metros. Finally, another potential strategic area is the reconstruction of Ukraine. The World Bank estimates around $500 billion are needed to rebuild the country, but we think that a little more of that. We are talking about buildings, but also about our core business, under the bridges, railway stations and water treatment plants were also destroyed and seriously damaged. While the situation remains uncertain, we are closely monitoring this. In a peace agreement, where to be reached, our company will be ready and willing to contribute for the reconstruction effort. Turning to Slide 12. I would like to conclude with an overview of our sustainability strategy. We remain on track to achieve our 2025 sustainability targets. We want to further reduce our carbon intensity by 10% by 2025 versus 2022. In 2024, we are already above this target with a reduction of 25%. On health and safety, as already discussed, we are already the best-in-class compared to our main European peers. Thanks to our educational and training programs, we have reduced the ratio by 33% in 2024 versus 2022. On gender inclusion and diversity. By 2025, we want an increase of 20% of women leading the group. On innovation, we are committed to invest in clean technologies for over EUR 400 million, of which about EUR 250 million already done in 2024. Our efforts being recognized by multiple rating agencies. In December 2024, we've been awarded the Gold rating by EcoVadis, ranking among the top companies in the industry in their ESG evaluation. I now leave the floor to Massimo for the economics in depth analysis.

Thank you, Pietro, and good morning, everybody. Before I go through the results, let me remind you that we are presenting adjusted figures to represent the recurring performance of the business. You can find all the details of the adjustments in the appendix. Let's start from Slide 14. Our transformation is delivering outstanding results, as reflected in our strong operational performance, we have achieved growth across all the financial indicators. Revenues of EUR 12 billion has exceeded expectations, and we have exceeded the target set for 2025, for EUR 1 billion. So we are well ahead of schedule. EBITDA and EBIT have reached the record levels respectively, at almost EUR 1 billion and EUR 580 million, doubling since the launch of our road map to 2025 business plan. This significant improvement highlights our success in enhancing operational efficiency, cost control and project execution. Going to Slide 15. Let's take a look at the revenue distribution. Our activities well balanced with over 90% of revenues in developed economies with clear rules, political stability and faster payment cycles. 67% of revenues are outside of Italy. Australia as mentioned by Pietro before, is our second biggest market with 26% of revenues. In North America, we generated 12% of our revenue. The top 10 projects contributed to revenues for around 47% of the total. When it comes to revenue distribution by activity, more than 85% is related to projects that contribute to achieving sustainable development goals as defined by the United Nations. On Slide 16, we show the main levers to increase profitability and maintain strong margins. We have implemented several key levers that have contributed to our margin improvement. And moreover, we boost future marginality. Intake selectivity, we continue to focus on high-quality projects, carefully selecting opportunities that align with our risk profile and financial targets. It's a fact that price is no more the most important factor to win EBITDA. Around 90% of our awards in 2022 and 2024 period are based mainly on best technical offer, meaning, for example, technical solution and health and safety standards. Price revision formula. We have successful mechanisms to adjust pricing in response to market fluctuations, protecting our margins from inflation and raw material price volatility. New contract standards, we are increasing the share of collaborative contracts, which come with lower operational risk. I'm referring to the incentivized target cost in Australia and the progressive design and build in the U.S. and Canada. Then contract management model revision, we are strengthening the monitoring process to ensure the timely identification and resolution of any issues. Cost efficiency plan, as you already know, it's several years that we have implemented a structural cost optimization strategy. To date, we have implemented initiatives to streamline in direct project and corporate costs for about EUR 155 million. On Slide 17, we have the P&L below EBIT line. Net financial costs increased by EUR 20 million, financial income was EUR 185 million, increasing by EUR 66 million, thanks to the increase of interest-bearing deposits. Financial expenses were EUR 300 million, increasing by EUR 55 million, of which, EUR 19 million due to the recent bond issues and EUR 41 million of increase in other financial expenses. This last one increase is mainly linked to write-off of financial receivables from subsidiaries and to interest on a dispute in North America. Our EBITDA to financial interest ratio remains in line with industry peers, confirming that we maintain a healthy and competitive financial structure. Net exchange gains were EUR 3 million compared to a positive contribution for EUR 34 million in 2023. Losses and investments amounted to EUR 32 million, mainly due a stop loss agreement part of the disposal agreement of a project in Turkey already reflected in first half results. Taxes amounted to EUR 181 million versus EUR 143 million in 2023. Our profits continue to grow at EUR 247 million in 2024. At the bottom of the slide, we show the reported net income to EUR 194 million that increased by 57% versus the previous year. You can see also the reconciliation due to the adjusted net income; the adjustments refer to the accounting nonmonetary items such as EUR 36 million from the amortization of the positive gain we registered in 2020 relating to the [ Astaldi's ] acquisition and EUR 17 million relating to the [ Clough ] acquisition. Let's turn to Slide 18. Our net cash position stood at EUR 1.45 billion, exceeding by far expectations. This is an extraordinary result taking on even greater significance in light of the investment for the startup of majority -- major ongoing projects. In 2024, investments in plant and machinery amounted at EUR 970 million. It confirms the effectiveness of the strategies adopted to optimize the management of working capital and reflects the commercial successes achieved by the group in 2024. On working capital, despite the significant increase in production in 2024, the measures adopted by the group have proven effective, allowing for a reduction in the average collection time of payments. In fact, trade receivables and contract assets grew slower than production. Working capital also benefited from the strong commercial activity. We have maintained a sound net cash position since 2021, even as we navigated into several global challenges and macroeconomic uncertainties. Excluding the temporary effect of the liability management that I will explain in the next slide, gross debt stood at EUR 2.8 billion with gross leverage coming down to 2.9x, well below compared to investment-grade industry peers with an average of 4.1x. Let's turn to Slide 19. In 2024, we built successfully issued 2 new bonds totaling EUR 1 billion maturing in '29 and 2030. The proceeds were used to fully repay bonds maturing in 2024 and part of those maturing in 2025 and 2026. The remaining cash will be used to repay the outstanding bonds maturing in December 2025 for EUR 180 million. Since we have refinanced very low-interest rate notes, the average cost of debt has increased a bit, but we managed to contain at a comfortable level. The expected reduction in interest rates present an opportunity for us, as central banks continue to ease monetary policies we anticipated the medium-term positive effect on our borrowing cost. Liquidity stands strong at more than EUR 4 billion. Finally, in 2024 both rating agency have improved our outlook. These positive evaluations reflect our reduced risk profile, improved the financial discipline and solid growth prospects. On Slide 20, I would like to show how we have performed versus the guidance from past years. You can see that we have consistently met and on multiple occasions to outperform the challenging targets year-after-year, despite macroeconomic challenges. I will now leave the floor to Pietro for the outlook.

Thank you, Massimo. Turning to Slide 22. We have built a solid and resilient group that is already shaping the next strategic plan. In '23, '24, we secured over EUR 13 billion in new orders on top of our business plan. We've also invested over EUR 1 billion in CapEx making us one of the companies with the largest TBM fleet in the world, all while maintaining strong financial discipline. This is reflected in a net cash position of EUR 1.4 billion, a controlled financial leverage in line with investment-grade players in our reinforced debt-to-equity ratio. Following the strong order intake, we are planning to invest around EUR 1.3 billion in CapEx in 2025, while maintaining a strong net cash position of more than EUR 700 million. This net cash target is stronger than our business plan estimates. These additional orders and investments not only drive higher production in 2024, 2025, but more importantly, they will fuel our future revenue growth and cash generation in the next business line. Moving to Slide 23. Building on this record high backlog and solid asset base, we are also implementing a range of strategic initiatives that will bear fruit in the next business plan. As we capitalize on a booming market, we will continue to position ourselves as a partner of choice for clients addressing climate transition and energy security challenges. In the water sector, we are taking a transformative step from being solely a constructor to an investor. Our public and private partnership proposal to tackle the drought crisis in Sicily reflect the shift, allowing us to enter the high-margin business of water production and distribution and expanding our footprint beyond traditional infrastructure construction. Additionally, we see potential upside from ongoing negotiation on megaprojects, such as the Messina bridge, we are not yet included in our 2025 guidance. We are also derisking our portfolio including a balanced and resilient product mix to minimize exposure to high-risk contracts while maintaining a steady cash flow. At the same time, we continue investing in employee training and development, equipping our workforce with the skills needed to support our growing business. Beyond organic growth, we are seeking to extend our value chain by integrated specialized companies in key sectors as a steel structure and foundations, engineering and mechanical, electrical and plumbing. These companies could operate both as captive entities and our suppliers for the other industry, generating additional EBITDA and cash flow. At the same time, we remain fully committed to our cost efficiency plan, continuously identifying opportunities for optimization and financial performance improvement. Our working capital optimization efforts are progressing, driven by a revamped content management approach, ensuring better contract structuring, risk mitigation and cash collection. Lastly, we are advancing the reorganization of our subsidiaries, ensuring that each entity meets its profitability targets and tackle market opportunities more executives. Lastly, on Slide 24, we present our 2025 guidance. What we have shared today, our achievements, the measures implemented, and the market perspective reinforces our confidence in the group prospects and support an upward revision of our 2025 targets. In 2025, revenues are expected to exceed EUR 12.5 billion, where EBITDA is projected to surpass EUR 1.1 billion. We now anticipate closing 2025, with revenues over EUR 4.4 billion higher than in 2022 compared to the EUR 2.8 billion increase outlined in our business plan, representing over 50% of additional growth beyond initial projection. Cumulative EBITDA for 2023, 2025 is expected to exceed the previous business plan by more than EUR 200 million. We remain committed to maintaining a solid net cash position expected to be above EUR 700 million at year-end, despite continued growth CapEx. Lastly for 2025, we are targeting a book-to-bill ratio greater than 1. I thank you for your attention. We are now ready for the Q&A session. So as not to go slowly on things, we encourage you to focus on the group strategy and other growth initiatives that underlie its current and future financial performance. For any other questions you may have on figures of some other details on the tables, or some technical details mentioned during the presentation, the Investor Relations team will be available to answer them after the call. Thank you to all of you.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from Matteo Bonizzoni, Kepler.

I have 2 questions. The first one is, can you update us on the process to finalize the award of the Messina Bridge over how many years the contract execution would take place? And what is your current stake in the Eurolink consortium, which I think you have rounded up recently. Second question is regards a team, which has taken center stage in construction sector recently, the German infrastructure plan -- so the construction sector reacted a big time to this unprecedented announcements from Germany on a EUR 500 billion infrastructure plan. In Europe, in the past, correct me if I'm wrong, you have been active in countries like France or Norway, but not so far, I think, in Germany or not recently at least. Could this become an opportunity for you? And the same for Ukraine, where in the past, you were active with, I remember not particularly satisfactory profitability with.

Well, thank you, Matteo. The first thing I will address the Messina Bridge issue. And as you know, by reading the papers, everything is on the papers now, it's quite at the end of the process for approval. We are awaiting the cheapest to approve the project and the contract to start by the end of April. So it's something which is quite in the next days if we can say that and we are, of course, ready. And as out of that, all the industry partners are ready to start. We tried this very important project for Italy and for the South of Italy especially. The design and construction phase is expected to last 7.5 years and the construction -- the completion of it is anticipated in 2032. I hope to be there and to pass through the bridge myself and all the team by the end of 2032. Then we were talking about the spending of the expansion of the market. There are an enormous demand for infrastructure everywhere in the world, of course, Germany, it's a single part of that market. We have markets in which we are present as we explained during the presentation. Of course, we tackle those markets with intensity and with the experience we already paid in those markets. So we try to reduce the footprint of -- Webuild not to be in too many countries because this means, say, a lack of focus on the market and not to be able to capitalize on the experience already done into the organization, which is already there. So this is something which is important. In the next business plan, we will focus strictly on countries and markets which are profitable, interesting and large enough for our company to deal with the magnitude of and the dimensional project that we are best-in-class for. So we need to have a very nice project to exploit at its best, the capability of -- and the competence of our company. What was the first question.

Probably something on Ukraine -- on Ukraine.

I will reiterate all that can be pulled now. Of course, we are talking about something that -- the hope of everyone that the war will finish as soon as possible. I really appreciate the efforts of U.S. and the President Trump to stop this sacrifice for the young generation, especially in Russia and Ukraine. And to start immediately to rework on rebuild Ukraine and Russia because we also have to remember that not only Ukraine has been affected by war. So in both countries, I think there are a lot of things to be done, and we are ready, of course, to do our part.

The next question is from Emanuele Gallazzi of Equita.

Two questions from my side. The first one is on the commercial pipeline because you mentioned over EUR 30 billion of potential over there in -- let's say, new markets. So can you just give us some more color on this? Where do you see the most relevant opportunities. And the second one is on the Australian market. If you can update us on the performance there, the margin improvement and how the integration of Clough is going?

Yes. Starting from Clough, of course, Clough is a very interesting investment we did in Australia. We are now an Australian company, and Clough is fully integrated into Webuild. There are no distinction between the 2. Competence, very specific competence of Clough especially in transmission lines and on energy are very well positioned now for the needs of Australia. So we are going well. The contracts in Australia is leading the world into this an innovative approach to contractor, which is the collaborative approach. There is no more -- the idea that your public and private one from one side of the table and the other one on the other side and enemies, but we both face the difficulties of the project and share the risk. So this is what is very important in Australia. I think that this is going to be spread around the world, but -- and also in U.S., they are doing the same thing. The main project in the commercial pipeline on the Northern water desalination plant in 2 stages in the [indiscernible] pumped hydro projects, pumped hydro energy storage system like Lake Borumba, Queensland. We are now resulted as best offering in the new Women and Babies Hospital in Perth. We see major market opportunities in either of our desalination in hospital, there are a lot of contracts going around. So Australia for us is a booming market, very interesting and we want to grow in Australia. The other question was?

Was on the EUR 30 billion of potential orders in -- coming from new markets just to better understand what is included in that number?

We have a pipeline. I explained that we have a pipeline, which is well over EUR 120 billion, which is done by the contracts that -- tenders that have already been submitted and awaiting outcome and the new tenders that are going to be done. So that...

Also in Italy.

Also in Italy there is an enormous pipeline of new contracts. So I think that from a contract point of view, we have to limit it, not to expand it. We will pursue a policy of -- a very selective policy in 2025 in the next coming years. As you see what we have to do, we had in the past an enormous growth. This has meant also on the financial side, an enormous effort. I think at this time now that we tackle our growth with a different perspective. As you have seen, we announced revenues growth, which is limited in 2025. And this means that we are -- we want to be very selective. And also that we want to collect cash. We want to connect back all the efforts we have done, the investment that we have done. And this means higher returns and higher free cash flow into the next plan. We have already 2 legs into the next -- into the next business plan. I think that we are talking about 2025, but we are all already working on '26, '27, '28 and this means that our position, especially the position we have on the portfolio that is a huge EUR 63 billion of orders for the start of 2025 is huge. So I think the market is not an issue here. We have a booming market, but we will be selective.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from Enrico Coco, Intermonte.

Actually, I have 2 follow-up questions. One is on the Messina Bridge and another 1 is on Ukraine. So on the Messina Bridge, the question is, during the presentation, you mentioned the fact that you think you will present a new industrial plan. So my question is, if you will present the plan after the award of these contracts. So after you will include the Messina Bridge contract in your backlog. And of course, if you expect this to happen this year? And then I have on this contract in this project, I would like to know the level of advanced payments associated, I think should be really good 10%, 20%. And I would like to know if the contract will be split in several years. And so you will take these advanced payments every year. The second question is on Ukraine. I remember that you signed MoU with a local company, which was around the hydro technology and business. So my question is if on Ukraine, you will focus just on this on your hydro technology or you are looking also other business such as, I don't know, rail and so on.

Starting from Ukraine, which is easier, of course, we will bring with the entire portfolio of capabilities of the company. We are excellent in railway, metro lines, transportation, highways, water and whatever. So the needs are huge transmission lines, energy distribution. So everything can be possible. And especially you have to imagine that in these conditions, time is a vessel. So when peace will finally be there, the needs of the people of those infrastructure will be huge. So the first thing to tackle with time and our capability on that -- in this regard is very important. For the Messina Bridge, of course, there is an advance payment foreseen, which is by the law. It is a contract under the cod of the -- the code of public work. So it will have an advance up to 20% will be distributed along the construction in a number of issues, a number of installments. So this is what is foreseen on the contract of the Messina bridge. We didn't put it into the backlog because even if we have a law that gives us the contract of the Messina Bridge by law, it has not been signed. So we cannot put in the backlog as now. But of course, if we expect that the CPI will approve it in April, I think that we are talking as a matter of weeks, let's say, in front of us in order to do the deal and to conclude the deal and start the construction of it. I am confident about that.

And can I ask if you will present a new investor plan after this award or I don't know, would be next year?

Yes, probably at the beginning of next year, we already started to draft...

It's not a matter of changing. So we remain a large infrastructure company.

With new numbers.

Unfortunately -- with new numbers are not exactly changing our business. So what is important, and I also put some lines on it on what are the major issues of the new business plan is the new companies that captive companies that can work for other clients on the specialties that is needed from us in a prospect of buying or making. We have chosen all those particular very specific segments. Steel manufacturing and engineering and special foundation and all those that which are strategic to -- for the execution of projects to have capability in-house. The second phase, of course, entering into the market of selling the product and not selling the construction, which is, for instance, the team that is linked to the water. We want to change from selling a desalination plant to use our experience and expertise in selling water. So entering into the investment of the infrastructure to deliver to the people directly the product. And this can be done in many fields because, of course, imagine the repower of all the dams around the world. Everybody thinks about the sustainable energy only linked to solar and windmills. But in reality, we have an enormous portfolio of old hydro power plant in Italy and in U.S., imagine only 4% of the U.S. dam are producing actually energy. So we also think a market in that respect in which we can put our expertise and maybe entering into this field of owning and exploiting some of those plants to produce energy directly.

The next question is from Alessandro Tortora, Mediobanca.

I have 4 questions. Okay, brief question, if I may. The first one is on your domestic market, Italy. Clearly, EUR 4 billion sales is a big result. Do you see here the possibility basically to stabilize the sales or there are some factors that may bring, let's say, to a normalization from this record level. Clearly, the Messina Bridge award would support this level as you commented before. So that's the first question folks.

Okay. We will do with that one. As we explained in the presentation, the group actually, it is very visible in many very large infrastructure projects. But in reality, we are addressing the internal market in Italy, even if we can consider a market. You know that being in Europe, the market is European, it's not only Italy. But also looking at the Italian market, we have a share of this market, which is very limited, less than 2%. So in comparison to our peers around Europe, which in the domestic market has a very important share of it. There is a large possibility of growth in front of us. If we think about -- I don't say the name, but the largest company in France is doing 10% of the market is -- 10% of the French market is in their end. Yes, we have an enormous opportunity of growth in our domestic market. As you remember, the group was always positioned approach as historically has always worked at abroad of Italy. And only recently, we shifted our attention to Italy. But I think that with the new code public works. And with the design and the relationship with the client, we have now with [ Ferragosto ] with ANAS with major clients, I think that the difference of working with us or not working with us is significant. And of course, we have to win tenders, but -- and nobody is giving us anything for grant. But we have enough competence and engineers to produce value engineering solutions for the Italian market. So we think that there is still a very big opportunity of growth in Italy.

Let me add [indiscernible] that just to give you an idea, there are not only the large projects with RFI and ANAS, but there are also many other projects like hospitals, stadium, highways where we have been called by the clients by the concessionary, by the private or municipality in order to execute the works [indiscernible]...

[indiscernible] previously the agreement we're ready to make this new investment for this storage -- pumped storage plants in Italy. So there are many things. We also seeing that in the future, nuclear plants. Of course, we are talking a very long-term project. But also in the nuclear plant field, we can have a role.