Wells Fargo & Company (WFC) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

All right, everybody. Welcome again back into the room. So we have up next in -- a big day for banks, the Senior Executive Vice President and CFO of Wells Fargo, Mike Santomassimo. Mike, welcome.

Great. Thanks for having me.

Absolutely. So maybe we'll just kick off at the top of the house. Again, we find ourselves in a cross current of geopolitical uncertainty, tariff policy, but at the same time, it feels like corporates are feeling good to start the year, deregulation across sectors, potential for lower rates. So maybe let's start with how your consumer, corporate, institutional and wealth clients are considering these factors as they think about activity levels in '26?

Yes. No, look, I think as you look at the start of the year, and it's really been a continuation of what we've seen now for a number of quarters. Activity levels are really good. Spend on the consumer side is up year-on-year every week, consistent in terms of the percentage increase that we're seeing. Categories move around all the time. But overall, like that spend across debit, credit, very, very consistent, which I think supports this really strong growth that we're seeing overall in the economy. Credit performance is still very good. We're not seeing signs of any systemic deterioration at all, across the consumer or the commercial portfolios. And so overall, delinquencies are great. Performance is great. Spend is really good. So it sets us up for a pretty good year, it looks like on the consumer side. On the commercial side, it's pretty similar. Now what you're not seeing still in the commercial banking client base is this big investment cycle yet. People aren't utilizing the revolvers more significantly than they had. It's still -- the utilization rates are still low on a historic basis. So I think that's an opportunity as people continue to get more and more comfortable with where the economy is going over the next couple of years. But there, again, we're seeing good credit performance, good activity levels overall, no systemic issues popping in the portfolio across any of the areas. And so I think it sets us up for a pretty good year. And then you couple that with really strong markets, a little bit of volatility here and there on the equity market side, but very strong markets overall. And I think -- so that everyone is feeling like it should be -- the activity levels should continue into this year. And that includes investment banking side. It includes all of what we're seeing across really most of the client base.

So refocusing back to Wells Fargo specifically, other than, of course, growing your balance sheet, how has your strategy shifted, if at all, since the lifting of the asset cap? And of course, you've seen the growth in trading assets, but maybe talk about specific businesses or desks where your mindset on balance sheet allocation may have really shifted post asset cap lifting?

Well, the strategy hasn't changed at all. And a lot of where we're seeing growth are the areas that we started investing in 4, 5, 6 years ago. On the consumer side, it's places like card, it's in our retail footprint across the core consumer banking space. On the commercial side, it's in places like investment banking, the markets business. So now that we've got the flexibility to grow the balance sheet, you're starting to see some of that actual growth come through. But it's really no different than what we laid out over the last number of years, and we've been talking about the last couple of years. On the market side, which is the place -- was the business by far the most impacted by the asset cap, what you've seen so far in large part is growth in a lot of the financing trade financing business that we have across there across. Mostly fixed income, but other asset classes as well in that business. And really, that's the place that you'll -- you should expect to see grow first. It's all high-quality collateral. It's very low risk, low RWA, good returning business. And it ends up being the thing that helps you then build the other activity with those -- with that client base. And that will come over a period of time. But I think we're very pleased with what we're seeing come through so far across those businesses. It's been pretty widespread across the client base. It's been pretty much focused on a number of places across the markets business. And it's exactly what we expected to happen as we came out of the asset cap and started to see some growth.

So speaking of growth, your outlook for mid-single-digit average loan growth in a 4Q '26 versus 4Q '25 time frame would imply end-of-period loan growth of 3.5% in '25. The H8 data has recently implied that the large bank group is one standard deviation above seasonal. So seasonal trends, so things are a little bit better. Given the dynamic that you specifically have in card and auto and what you just laid out on commercial, what continues to be the drag on total loan growth for Wells? And should we consider some conservatism maybe baked into that number?

Well, I think let me tell you what we're seeing across the portfolios, and then we're hopeful that we'll do better than what we laid out, but I'll walk you through each of the portfolios. On the card side, as we said, we're seeing good growth there, and it's been pretty consistent now for a while. It's really driven by the newer products that we've launched over the last 3 or 4 years. And I think that continues. And we did -- we saw a good uptick in new account origination in the credit card business in the second half of last year. And so hopefully, that will continue into this year and continue to support sort of good growth there. And we're very pleased with what's going on there. And I think you'll see some more new products come this year, focused on some of our wealth management client base and some other pockets that we've got there. In the auto business, if you go back now, take a couple of steps back a few years ago, we very much focused on prime, super prime part of the business, while we sort of reinvested or invested in our underwriting capabilities to make sure that we were very comfortable with the way we were going about becoming a little bit more of a full spectrum lender. I say that like a little more full spectrum. I wouldn't say we're going all the way down into deep subprime in any way. So it's really just coming down a little bit in the credit spectrum there. You couple that with bringing on the Volkswagen, Audi preferred partnership that we have with them in the U.S. And you're seeing really good growth in the auto business now over the last 2, 3 quarters. And we're seeing -- we're really liking the momentum that we have there. So we should expect to see some growth continue overall in that business. The one place that's not growing much in the consumer side is the mortgage business. So we've seen some decline in that over time. That decline should moderate and be relatively flat throughout the year. And so that's really what's happening there. And I think depending on sort of how things shape up on the consumer side, you could see a little more, a little less depending on -- in each of those categories, depending on how things play out for the year. On the commercial side, you've seen really good growth in the Corporate and Investment Bank, and you've seen some growth mainly from new clients in the Commercial Bank. Like I said before, we're not seeing a lot of utilization from the increases in utilization from the Commercial Banking client base yet. And so if that starts to pick up, that would be a positive relative to overall expectations that we set. But we're seeing like good healthy growth there in that business. And over the last 2 or 3 years, we've been adding hundreds of commercial bankers in local markets around the country and some focus on some industries like health care or technology and other places. And we're starting to see really that investment pay off with an increase in new account -- new client growth over last year and then coming into this year. So that's what's driving there. And so we'll see if things are -- if that investment cycle really starts to pick up in that client base, we should see higher growth there, but we'll see. And then on the corporate investment banking side, what you're seeing there is some growth in the nonbank financial space, but also some growth across like a broader set of clients. In the nonbank financial space, it's areas that we've been in for a long time and are very good at. Our capital call facilities and fund finance that we deal with large private equity, private credit managers and then a whole bunch of other asset classes there that you've seen grow over the last couple of years. And then -- but you're seeing some good growth across a lot of the other asset classes, which is a good sign that some of those other sectors -- clients in those other sectors are really starting to make some investments and borrow, which I think should hopefully be a good sign as we go later in the year. So are we being conservative? Who knows? But I think overall, like the signs -- the momentum is good. We're comfortable with like the risk appetite we've got. And depending on how the year plays out, it could be a little better.

So maybe just to follow up on the investment cycle for your commercial bank clients. The speaker before you was very bullish on the stimulative effects of the Big Beautiful Bill and how it could stimulate the CapEx cycle. Do you feel from what you're hearing from your commercial bank clients, is that really going to be a factor in terms of the CapEx cycle?

Yes, I think it matters for sure. And I think it's a net positive. But I think remember, people had to deal with a lot in the second half of last year. You had some tariff noise. You had some supply chain stuff you had to work on. You had -- people were still a little uncertain where the overall economy was going and was there going to be a little bit of a slowdown or not. And so I think as those things are a little bit more in the rearview mirror and people can then refocus their energies on those growth initiatives. And I'm sure others are saying this, too. You're going to see more activity like M&A and other -- across a bunch of different sectors. And that's all part of that investment cycle, I think, as you look across that client base. And so assuming like the economy overall continues to have some good momentum, I think you'll see more of that happen. And I think the bill's certainly is part of that.

Does the OCC extinguishing the leverage loan limits that they put in place in 2013, does that have any meaningful impact or notable impact for how you're thinking about what you put on the sheet?

Look, it definitely matters. Is it going to be -- is it going to change the growth rate of loans by like significant amounts, like probably not, like in the short run. But it does matter a lot. And I think it helps us be much more competitive in a bunch of situations that we're very comfortable with the risk. We've known clients for a very long time, and it allows us to compete and really keep that client or grow with those clients in a very different way. And so I think it does -- it certainly does matter. And I think just broadly being able to have more flexibility, more freedom to kind of set your risk appetite, really work with clients you've known for a very long time. And a lot of those clients, keep in mind, are like commercial banking style clients. And in a lot of cases, we've known these clients for decades and decades. Every client -- every commercial banking event I go to, there's a client that says, 20 years ago or 30 years ago or 10 years ago, you were there as a bank to really help support us. And so these are clients that we've known forever. And I think it does help us be much more competitive there and gives you another quiver in your tool kit.

So I think the progress that you've made in the results in your Corporate and Investment Bank or your CIB has been sort of the most telling piece of evidence that you guys were growing underneath the asset cap, right, that your strategy hasn't really changed. And 2026, again, with a very bullish figure on capital markets for 2026. So maybe let's just start with banking. Given your starting point, should we assume that you can continue to grow higher than what the wallet growth is going to be in 2026? And in terms of advisory versus ECM versus DCM, where are your strengths currently biased?

Yes. I mean that's certainly the goal is to keep growing market share. And I think we've been able to do that now for a couple of years and really start to grind that up over time. And if you take a little bit of a step back in investment banking, what we've been doing now is executing a strategy we set out 3 or 4 years ago, which is just very simple in terms of making sure you got the right people covering the right clients. You got the right types of folks on all of the product areas, including M&A, advisory, equity and debt capital markets and with sector expertise across them. And what we've done is we've hired roughly 100 or so senior folks across the investment bank. And we're starting to see that -- those new folks together with the base of folks that have been around a long time, really start to see the results come through in terms of more deals that we wouldn't have been on in the past. It's both across the Corporate and Investment Bank, but also the Commercial Banking client base as well, where there's lots of activity that we just weren't taking advantage of in the past. And so the goal is to continue to see more progress. And I think the most visible way you see that progress is through market share and wallet share increases. And when you look across each of the product areas, like we feel like we can compete with anybody. We're continuing to add people in different subsectors across the main industry groups. And we've been super pleased with all of the folks we've been able to recruit from really all over the place. And I think they really -- the platform and the growth story and being able to build the business from what already is -- has a business that has some scale to it is very much resonates with all the people we've brought in. And so we've been really, really, really happy with that progress. And I think the goal is to continue to build that up and become first top 5, and then we'll see where it goes from there in terms of overall share.

And speaking of the markets business, I'm sure the same concept will be applicable. One of your G-SIB peers noted that trading or markets rather should grow 2x GDP. Do you agree with that? And again, can you contextualize sort of where the market share wins could be maybe by product?

Yes. Look, it's hard to like come up with an exact number. But like for us, the opportunity is big in markets. As I said earlier, that was a business most constrained by the asset cap. We just couldn't do basic things to help support clients across basic financing needs, which leads to other activity with folks. And I think we feel really good about the opportunity there. And I think when you go talk to clients, they want -- it's a competitive marketplace, but they want more providers and more firms that can support them. And we're seeing really good uptake from all the brand names across the wallet in the street that are there. And I think we've seen some really good evidence that, that demand is there. I've talked about our FX business in the past. But you look at our FX business, we built it from a -- basically only doing FX for corporate payment flows. We systematically sort of built out like an institutional side of it, and we hit record volumes every quarter now in that business. And you can sort of take that same playbook that we've had there and apply it to rates, apply it to some of what we're doing on fixed income financing. You've got the equities business. And again, we're focused mainly on U.S.-based clients and then supporting them where we need to outside the U.S. So it's a bit of a different comparison point and maybe some of the others, but we're seeing really good places. And even in one of our smaller businesses like our commodities business, it's really built off the back of our corporate franchise. And so we're relatively -- we have really good share in some odd things within commodities, but it's really based on like the Commercial Banking and Corporate Banking business that we do across the country. And so -- and it naturally -- it's just a natural extension of what we do for a lot of those clients. And so we feel really good about the progress. You'll see, as I said earlier, what you've seen so far is a lot of financing activity that's grown the balance sheet so far. And then you fill in and you monetize that financing activity by doing a whole bunch of other things with clients. That takes a little bit more time to kind of come through the P&L, but we're very confident that the team is executing really well on that.

So before we move on for markets, I do want to clarify something that you were trying to point out on the earnings call. You said you expected to grow total markets revenue in 2026. Maybe could you walk us through expectations for both the NII component and the fee income component?

Yes. The markets revenue is like a favorite topic for a lot of people. And we like to break it apart between net interest income and fees. And when you're in an environment where either rates are going up or rates are going down, you have geography changes between fees and NII. And so sometimes that can distort things a little bit in terms of if you're looking at accounting line items. But when you look at the overall business, we expect markets revenue to grow year-on-year. That will mean higher NII, lower fees, all else equal. But if -- let me back up. If revenue was flat year-on-year, you would see a geography change of higher NII, lower fees. But we're saying overall, revenue should grow. How much we'll see, right? A lot of that's going to be based on the volatility that's there and the activity levels in the overall market. But we're very optimistic about what we're seeing there, and I think we should see the overall revenue continue to grow there.

Okay. And so just to follow up, if markets revenue is growing, then the fee component could be flattish potentially?

Potentially.

Okay. Just switching to the consumer side on deposits. Charlie has been publicly saying that you should grow faster than market over time here as well. I think there's a big theme to this fireside chat. And you have recently talked about new net checking account growth stronger in '25 versus '24. Could you contextualize this a little bit more?

Sure. As part of what we had to do to fix the regulatory issues and in particular, the sales practice issues that were there as a company. We needed to kind of tear down all of the incentive systems and all of the mechanisms you used to grow in the consumer bank and rebuild them all. And so what you saw for a number of years was just not a lot of growth in the consumer business. And you can see that from a lot of the public metrics that are out there across different areas. And at the same time, because of the asset cap, we weren't out there proactively doing a lot of digital marketing or other -- we're really trying to grow aggressively in the consumer business for a number of years. So starting, I don't know, 18 months, 2 years ago, we started to reintroduce all that stuff, new incentive systems with all the right controls around them, more rebuilt sort of the marketing capabilities using a lot newer technology, better -- different people and a whole bunch of things as we sort of invested in that. And so what you're starting to see is the benefit of that come through in better checking account growth. And this year, our 2025 was up a bunch relative to where it was the year before. That was up a bunch from the year before that. A lot of it was driven by what we were doing in the digital space and the branch system is starting to kind of come up to speed in terms of the productivity that we expect to see there. And so we expect that to continue to grow. And I think as the branch system continues to become -- get to the level of productivity that we expect, you'll start to see that be a more meaningful contributor to it. And then we'll ultimately see sort of how we look relative to the other big banks. But we're seeing really good progress there over the last 2 years, and I expect that to continue into this year.

So sticking to the consumer, maybe let's talk a little bit about card. Again, you've shown some really great successes on the growth front. And of course, many investors know about the economics of card, particularly when you're building it from the ground up, right? The profitability is back-end loaded, so to speak. When do you think pre-provision profit in card can start improving more meaningfully as you sort of lap the marketing, the promos?

Yes. So we've replatformed every product that we had. And that -- the early ones got launched in late -- second half of '21 really and then more meaningfully in 2022. And so you start to see the maturation of those vintages in about 3 years. And so you'll start to see the early vintages mature now into this year. And so you'll start to see that impact grow starting now and into over the coming years. And I think when you look at what we've seen so far across those vintages, it's doing exactly like what we thought it would. The credit box is very strong. And in most cases, the -- in really all the vintages that we've put on, the credit profile looks as good or better than the kind of the back book that's been there a long time. So the credit performance has been really good. Delinquencies on the margin are a little bit better than we modeled still month after month. Credit performance has been really good. Spend levels are up. And so overall, we're seeing kind of exactly what we thought we'd see by -- through those vintages, and they start to more meaningfully compound over the next couple of years, but you'll see some of that increase starting this year.

So in terms of where you play in the spectrum, obviously, there's a lot of competition for like the high spenders and affluent. Are you competing there? And are you continuing to market to your deposit base? Or given the asset cap lift, are you starting to expand out?

Yes.

I did see Super Bowl commercial.

Yes. Yes. It was only in certain markets, by the way. We're still -- we didn't do a whole national commercial to.

It was in Miami.

I'm too cheap, I guess. I think the -- there's a couple of bunch of stuff in there, so make sure I capture it all. But when you look at the originations, it's still about 60-40 roughly directionally in terms of existing clients, new clients. So we are adding a lot of new clients to the mix each year as we go. And so -- and that's been a relatively consistent sort of percentage for a while. We're not trying to go like to the Uber high end. I think there's a ton of opportunity for us to participate more from where we are. And then as I mentioned earlier, launch some new products geared towards our wealth management clients both in the branch system, what we call Wells Fargo Premier, sort of that affluent customer and then the higher-end wealth management or private banking type customer. So you'll see more products come out there this year, but we're not necessarily trying to go all the way up. When you think about the opportunity we have, we still have a lot of opportunity on the existing client base. There's still over 10 million customers within the existing -- within our footprint, within our consumer bank that fit exactly in the credit box. And it's just a matter of continuing to market and make sure we've got the right product for each of those folks. We've improved a lot of how the experience looks in the branches, too. So you're preapproved in a lot of cases when you're walking into a branch now. That wasn't always the case. And so there's a lot of tactics that we've put in place to increase that penetration, and we're seeing some good results there. And then as we have more products that fit the bill, I think that opportunity set gets bigger and bigger. And so there's a lot of opportunity still there, but we're seeing really good take-up in the digital space, too. And what you saw in the second half of last year at our credit card originations is really 2 things. One, better performance in the branches. So we saw a big uptick in new sales coming out of the branches using a lot of the things I mentioned in terms of the tactics that we put in place for the branch employees. And then we saw a lot of people coming directly to wellsfargo.com or our digital properties, which is a great way to do it because you don't have to pay that third party as you're marketing. And so we saw really good uptake in kind of the 2 most cost-effective channels, which tells you you're getting some good traction, I think, overall with the value prop on the cards.

So let's talk about WIM since you did mention that. So during the quarter, you said a couple of things. Total hires increasing, attrition declining and net asset flows accelerating in the second half of '25. What are the key growth priorities here for Wealth in '26, particularly as the momentum has shifted underneath the surface?

Yes. I mean you really got to look at it by channel. So there's -- we've got a few key channels in the business. First is what we call Wells Fargo Premier, I mentioned earlier. This is focused on the folks in our -- that get service out of the branch system. So we've got a couple of thousand, 2,500 or so advisers sitting in the branches already. And they're working with clients that have roughly $250,000 and above, either with us or away from us. There's something like 8 million -- 6 million to 8 million customers that probably have something like $6 trillion to $8 trillion or away from us. And so there's a huge opportunity to better serve those customers. And if we can do a good job on the wealth management side of that equation, they will bring -- the data would suggest they'll bring 2x the banking and lending wallet as well. And you're seeing the momentum really pick up in the second half of the year in terms of new flows coming on to the platform from that channel. And so we're really excited about that piece of it. And there's only a couple of us that really have that opportunity across such a scaled platform. In the private client channel, which is kind of the traditional sort of adviser channel, attrition is as low as it's been. We're recruiting great teams from all over the place, which has been really good to see. And they're not little, small mom-and-pop teams in a lot of cases. They're really big, scaled teams that are growing and really want our platform, our balance sheet to do interesting things on the lending side with their clients as well. And so we're seeing good momentum there across the board. And there, we're continuing to focus on more alternatives, banking lending penetration and really helping make the advisers more and more productive so they can grow on the platform. And then the other part, which the last channel, which is unique to us is really servicing the independents. Fastest-growing channel by number of advisers by far across the industry. It leverages everything we do across those other 2 channels. There's very little incremental investment needed to support those advisers. And what was great to see in the second half of the year is we're starting to recruit people directly off some of the other platforms, whether it's an independent firm or sort of the traditional wirehouse type style platforms. And that's -- it's still a little early days to kind of see that really build, but we're starting to actually see people come direct into that, which is encouraging. And so I think really across the board, good things are happening in each of the channels. And I think we should be able to continue to see flows pick up as we go.

I think it's very telling of the "New Well story." That we only have less than 10 minutes left, and we're just getting to expenses. So you talked on the earnings call about further headcount reductions in '26. Where are you guys in terms of your headcount efficiency journey? Clearly, there's been a lot of hope from investors that you'll take those regulatory remediation expenses and then you could use that for growth driving expenses. Those that you did mention on the call that the remediation expenses will be slower to trickle out. So maybe just unpack all of that for us.

Sure. Yes. Look, we've done a lot in the last 5-plus years. I think we've saved roughly $15 billion of saves. We've reinvested most of that in -- back into the products, platforms, people serving clients. We have -- we've taken headcount down. I think it's 21 or 22 quarters in a row, down significantly from 70,000 from where we started at the peak in 2020. And when you look at the company, we still have a lot more to do. And that's before you even get to the benefits of things like AI. And it just takes time to do it in a thoughtful, rational way. But across almost every part of the company, there's still more to do to make things as efficient as they should be, and we're focused on it. And outside of the personnel costs, there's also still more real estate to go. I always tell people, we've got a couple of buildings for sale in different cities. So if you're interested, call. But like it takes time to get -- to really work down real estate footprint. It takes time to get -- work down some of the third-party spend. And there's just more to do there. And I think there should be less people for the size and volumes that we have today going through the company. You then add AI on top of that, and I think that allows you to do much more, much different set of activities. A lot of what we're doing this year doesn't really rely on AI. I think you'll see more benefits from AI coming in the coming years, maybe as you start to exit this year into next year and beyond. But I think that unlocks a whole bunch of different opportunities that may not have existed sort of in the past. So we're -- so we think we've got a lot more to do and are continuing to focus on it. On the regulatory spend, we've added a lot of people and a lot of spend to manage the risk and control infrastructure that we've built out. And I think as you look at what we did, we started the journey 6 years ago. And so now if you take a step back and look at what we've done, there's going to be -- of course, there's going to be ways to make it like more streamlined, more efficient, more automated. Maybe there was a little duplication of things in certain pockets to sort of get through aspects of it. And now it's a matter of really being thoughtful about how you go through an exercise to relook at that so that you keep all the benefits of what we've done and you look for those ways. And so that's why it just takes some time to do that. And so that will happen over a bit of a longer period of time. But don't get lost in the fact that we've got a whole bunch of other stuff to do, right? And so we've got 200,000-plus people. We added 10,000 to do the risk and leg work. There's -- we still have 195,000 people to sort of -- and the activities that they do to focus on and really get more efficient, plus all the other spend categories that I mentioned. So there's a lot more still to do.

So before I ask about capital, I did want to reask the M&A question in a different way. As you know, this has really picked up as a topic in the fourth quarter of last year. It's really very interesting actually. And we hear it totally loud and clear that the hurdle rate for Wells to grow inorganically is very, very high. At the same time, the window for G-SIB to grow inorganically, particularly now could be narrow. How does leadership balance those 2 considerations?

Well, different way to ask it, same answer. So I think when you look at the platform we've got, like we have a really enviable position, right? We've got scale in all of our key businesses. We feel no pressure at all to like do acquisitions to grow. We've got a tremendous amount of organic opportunity to grow in every single one of the businesses in the best market in the world to do that. And so the bar is high. And obviously, you'll -- if something special came about, like we'd look at it, but the bar is high, and we'd have to really make sure as Charlie and others and I have said a couple of times now is like it really has to be something that really enhances the value of the overall franchise in a pretty significant way. But we're focused on really growing organically, and we'll see where it goes.

Great. And before I ask another question, I just wanted to make sure the folks in the room know that if you scan the QR code and you submit the question, I'll get in this iPad here, but we also have the old-fashioned way of the mic. So you have opportunities abound. So just quickly on capital. As your asset cap was in place, your G-SIB surcharge fell to 1.5%. As you grow, it could obviously potentially move up to 2% at some point. How does that impact your thoughts on your target level for capital, CET1 in particular and the buffer that you want to maintain over and above the reg minimum?

We've got a big buffer already. And so -- and any change is like a couple -- is years in the making, right? And plus you have the changes to the rules that could impact that. So I think in the short...

You mean the G-SIB recalibration?

Yes. Yes. Yes, the Fed is working on both Basel III and then looking at the G-SIB recalibration. And so we'll see where it goes. In the short run, it's not impacting anything we're doing. And I think we've got a lot of excess capital to continue to support growth and continue to support clients. And so I think that's a good place to be.

And then just finally, the lifting of the asset cap had a commensurate lifting impact on your valuation. Now that you're transitioning into a growth story, and that was very much resonated during this conversation, what are your key messages that you'd like to leave investors as you embark upon this next phase?

Yes. Look, we're a very different company than we were 5 or 6 years ago. And I think we're excited about like the opportunity to grow. And it's all everywhere that we're growing -- it's the strategies that we set 3, 4, 5 years ago, and we've been preparing, we've been investing. We've been making sure that we continue to have all the right people, the right technology, the right products that we've got to offer. And so every single one of the businesses has opportunity to grow. And we've kind of closed the chapter of simplifying the place, right? We closed the last divestiture just in January with our railcar leasing business. And so we've done everything we've set out to do to set ourselves up for the environment we're in now and post asset cap. And now it's just down to execution. And I think we're excited, and we think we've got the right team. We've got the right position across every one of the businesses, and we're excited about just going after it. And it's just -- it's as clear as it can be in terms of the things that we need to do to get there. And I think the great part is it's like resonating. And we're seeing -- we're starting to see it really come through the results in a really, really significant way across each of the businesses. And I think there's just a lot of opportunity from here to grow. And so it should be an exciting time for us as we go over the next few years.

That's great. So we may have time for one question in the audience, if anyone has it. We do have mics as well. All right. That was a very clear message Mike. Thank you so much for joining us.

Thank you.

Thank you.