Wereldhave N.V. (WHA) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, and welcome to the Wereldhave First Half 2024 Results Webcast. Today, I'll talk you together with our CFO, Dennis de Vreede, through the highlights of the results. As always, you can type your questions in the text box in your screen also during the presentation and towards the end of the presentation, we will deal with the Q&A. So let's start with the key messages of these results. If we focus on the operational metrics, I think if we look at the Dutch market, as you know, which has been a tough market for us over the past 5, 6 years, we saw a strong recovery last year and that is continuing in 2024. Dutch Retail sales were plus 4%, that's also above the level of inflation. So we have also seen volume growth for several of our retailers. I think that is also the result of the improved portfolio quality on the one hand through the disposals that we made in the past couple of years, but also the new Full Service Center concept that we have created. Footfall plus 5%, but almost plus 10% for the Full Service Center, I think service centers, also a very compelling figure. Valuations, they were positive last year and that trend is continuing. Everybody sees that interest rates are stabilizing. But what we noticed is that our plus 3% valuations was first and foremost, driven by increased ERVs. Over the past 2 years, we've had several discussions with the media and also investors, analysts about the rental levels that we were indexing with very high figures. Can you maintain those rental levels? What you see in the first half result is an answer. The answer is yes. The leasing spread for the portfolio, for the core portfolio was a positive plus 1% and that is now also being reflected in the valuations. The Fitch credit rating reported on that a couple of weeks ago, BBB stable. We're very happy to be back on track with regards to the balance sheet. I think this is the strongest balance sheet we've had since 2019 when Dennis and I took over and Dennis will tell you more about that later. The debt profile has also been strengthened with new USPP. And with regards to disposals, we already mentioned during Q1 and also with the AGM that we were working on disposals, first and foremost for the Dutch market. Again, we're doing this because the fiscal regime is changing in the Netherlands, the REIT regime is canceled as of the 1st of January, 2025. And also, the real estate transfer tax in the Netherlands is at a pretty high 10.4%. We've taken the first steps. We're working on exclusive discussions on 2 of our assets and on the third asset, we're having joint venture discussions. Direct result in the first half of this year was impacted by bankruptcies in mostly in Belgium. We'll get back to that later, but also some higher financial expenses. What you will see in H2 is a normalization on the back of the new Fitch credit rating, which is causing lower marginal cost of debt, but also the fact that by now we've leased already most of the vacancies in Belgium. And this is the reason why and that is the last bullet on this slide, we can reiterate the EUR 1.75 direct result per share for 2024. If we then go to the key numbers. I've mentioned this, the direct result per share, a little bit lower in the first half of 2024 versus last year. What you can see again for the second half of the year is the benefit of the lower marginal cost of debt, the leased vacancies, but also a higher other rental income. And based on those, we still expect the EUR 1.75 for 2024. In that scenario, we are not counting on further ECB rate cuts, of course, if that's going to happen, that would only be upside. Indirect result per share on the back of the positive valuations, strong increase. And if we look at the loan-to-value at 43%, of course, it's higher than with Q1 because we paid the dividend in Q2, but it's lower versus the first half of last year. And of course, in the second half of the year, we will have the retained earnings and we forecast only roughly EUR 20 million of CapEx. So towards the end of the year, we expect a lower LTV. Finally, the proportion of mixed-use has also increased from 13.3% to 14.5%, so we continue to work on our strategy. If we look at like-for-like rental growth, we've had 2 years of almost double-digit like-for-like rental growth on the back of high inflation and indexation. In the Netherlands, I think plus 5% is a very strong figure. Belgium has been impacted by the vacancies, which is logical. We do, however, expect based on the already signed leases regarding those vacancies that this figure will improve in the second half of the year. If we then go to the results themselves, leasing from an operating perspective, we had a positive leasing spread of 1.3% in the first half of this year, 7.4% in Belgium and a very small negative in the Netherlands. And what I think is very interesting is that we are still leasing 12.3% above ERV. What we've seen is an increase in our ERVs. Last year, we've seen an increase in the ERVs and the valuations in the first half of 2024, but still we're leasing 12.3% above. And as I also look at the leases signed post the 30th of June, this trend is continuing, which I think is quite promising for the second half of the year. If we then go to the next slide, that is the Full Service Center performance. As always, we break down the portfolio in 3 brackets, Full Service Centers, In Transformation and Shopping Centers. And you can see the Full Service Centers by now is by far the biggest one. I'm not going to read through all the figures, of course, but you can see, for example, in the MGR Uplift, new rent versus old rent, but also in the footfall that the Full Service Centers continue to outperform strongly. Footfall, both in Belgium and in the Netherlands, we have also been doing better than the market. And this is interesting because during the COVID pandemic, we also outperformed significantly and I think there were many people who were expecting that that would normalize after COVID, but you can still see that our centers are performing better than amongst others, the high streets in Belgium and the Netherlands. If we look at tenant sales, there's a 2% increase versus last year. Of course, here, again, Belgium is also impacted by the vacancies. That's why it's only plus 1% that will recover in the second half of the year. In the Netherlands, plus 4%, I think, is a very decent figure. Some categories such as F&B, but also health and beauty are performing very strongly. The strategy of the company, LifeCentral. We're making significant progress. Daily Life is now 67% of our footprint of our portfolio. But we started the strategy, this was 50%, 51%. And you can see with this, the portfolio is becoming more and more resilient. I'll skip the next one. We'll go to the next slide. This is a new slide in the presentation deck. We thought it would be interesting to highlight this to you. What are we showing in this slide for the Belgium on the left side and also for the Netherlands on the right side, there's a number of lines in this chart. What we are comparing is the available household income per store versus 2015. What we've seen in both markets is that the income of the population in Belgium and the Netherlands has grown, of course, since 2015, also if you adjust for inflation. So in real terms. But what you can see is that the number of stores has decreased. And I think if you look at both markets, 48 percentage points and 57 percentage points, you can see we get to a situation where the available spending power versus the amount of physical stores has grown to a point where rental levels and also sales in the physical stores are picking up again. So I think for a number of years, of course, physical retail has been difficult because there was an oversupply of retail. This is also what we emphasized when we launched the strategy, but we see also now based on these numbers that we get to a situation where the spending power versus the number of physical stores is actually looking quite good, which is encouraging, I think. If you then look at the leasing market, we have been talking about polarization for the past couple of quarters. Here, you see some examples. I think on the left-hand side, of course, the bad news, the bankruptcies, Grand Optical in Belgium, Body Shop, Esprit, Ken Shoe Fashion, also some restructuring such as Cassis-Paprika. The good news is that most of these stores have now been re-let already or are almost re-let. And if you look on the right-hand side, you see a lot of strong brands that we've been expanding in our portfolio, such as the Danish discount on Normal [indiscernible] in Belgium, The Sting, but also the German fashion discounter, New Yorker, Scapino, [ Vibra ] and we also signed a new package deal with a gym operator, which is called Yellow Gym for new locations in Hoofddorp and Tilburg. I would say if this trend is continuing, I think that it only has a positive impact on the quality of our cash flow, but also the quantity of the cash flow. I'll take Belgium as an example. Once we have refilled all the vacancies, we will end up with a higher rent than previously and a better quality cash flow. If we then go to the occupancy cost ratios. Here, we've seen a small increase. Belgium and the Netherlands are now at 13% and 14%. I think these are still very affordable levels for our retailers, given their floor productivity. And I think what you also see here, for example, Fashion 15%, 16%, I think these are very healthy figures. If we then go to the direct result and the bridge, how we get from H1 '23 to H1 '24, of course, the acquisition of Polderplein in Hoofddorp in December last year is contributing a lot. We've also seen that the net rental income in Belgium is increasing. France is a small minus. Netherlands is also a plus on the back of the indexation and the rental growth. However, it's logical that the interest expenses are taking out a lot. I always say, lease contracts are indexed annually and the debt is only being mark-to-market at the point of maturity and it's logical that is lagging, of course, in this market. Going forward, if indeed the ECB keeps cutting the rates and also if the low end tail of the yield curve will go down a bit, there is some upside, of course, in our marginal cost of debt. Certainly, now we have this BBB stable credit rating. If we then look at the outlook for 2024, yes, it's the same slide as 6 months ago. We still expect EUR 1.75 also for the next year. As a reminder, next year, we will spend some money on the tax side in the Netherlands, of course, because the FBI regime will be gone. On the other hand, that will be compensated by rental growth. Dividend per share, we still expect to go from EUR 1.20 to EUR 1.25. If we then go to the strategy, I already mentioned, we're making quite nice progress on our mixed-use targets. Here, you can see some examples. I already mentioned the opening of the 2 Yellow Gyms in both Hoofddorp and Tilburg. We also opened this quarter the new health cluster in Presikhaaf in Arnhem. You can see it in the picture on the top left-hand side of this slide, which is now full and quite successful. Kronenburg in Arnhem is one of the ongoing transformations. This is one of the larger very established centers in Arnhem, was delivered in 1979, and Wereldhave has been the sole owner of the center since then. So we know this center inside out. We started on Phase 1. The construction activity is going on at full speed at the moment. The center is already -- the development is already circa 95% leased. There will be a new big grocery chain Jumbo Foodmarkt, but also some additional Daily Life tenants as we call them. And at the moment, we're working on the second phase of this project amongst others, we are also developing with our partner Amvest, residential units. The first 156 units are being developed as we speak. Then if we look at the strategy from a CapEx perspective, we've now spent about EUR 206 million of CapEx. We have EUR 85 million to go. We expect EUR 20 million for the second half of the year, of which roughly 50% is committed for 2025, EUR 30 million and afterwards, EUR 35 million. You can see if you do the numbers ballpark, you can see that our cash flow from operation, our free cash flow basically is almost turning positive because the CapEx numbers are much lower than in the past. Finally, on the yield shift. What we see is that since we launched the strategy, the yields in the Belgium and the Dutch market, of course, have gone up, amongst others because of the COVID pandemic, but also the increasing interest rates, circa 90 basis points, as you can see in this bar chart on the left. But you can see that most of our centers have outperformed that movement from a yield perspective, which has always been a part of the strategy once we derisk the asset, we think it also deserves a lower yield. The residential profits, we have adjusted the numbers last year, as you know, on the back of higher interest rates. The good news is we now signed the deal in Tilburg, so there will be a EUR 3 million inflow of cash in 2024. And in 2025, there will be an EUR 8 million inflow from Nivelles. The other profits will come after 2025, again, as we always say, for us, we extract from this opportunity what we can. We do this by selling the building rights. It's not the big game changer for the investment case Wereldhave in my view. But again, these are nice additional profits for you as a shareholder. With that, I'd like to hand over to Dennis.

Thank you, Matthijs, and also a very good morning from my side to all of you. I'll give you a bit more color on the second 3 topics of our presentation today before we open it up for questions. To start with, the valuations and Matthijs already mentioned that we have seen a very healthy revaluation, positive revaluation of 3% for our core portfolio, mainly driven by the Belgium portfolio this year and that's been really driven on that side by the ERV catch-up. So what we have seen in the past, we've been leasing significantly above the ERVs and the valuators have been picking that up and that's been reflecting in this first half year in the 4.9% increase in Belgium. For the Netherlands, we are also positive again, 1.4%, also mainly driven by the ERV upside and France and the offices in Belgium are stable for the first half year. Our LTV ended up at 43% for the first half year, which is 90 basis points lower than the first half of '23. I think that's a positive. That's a trend downwards, slightly above the full year 2023. Mainly, of course, the drivers are the lower CapEx investments we did in the first half year. We are still very cautious with CapEx spending, although we keep focusing on our Full Service Center strategy and the transformations. Secondly, we continue to focus on our cost side. As you may also have seen in the press release, we are at 23%, 24% EPRA cost ratio, which is down like 6% or 7% from last year. And we keep working, as we mentioned here as well on our target to be sub-40% LTV in the longer term. If I then move on to the debt profile. This snapshot here shows a very healthy debt profile for the first half year '24. Our debt profile is also further strengthened by the new EUR 119 million USPP we have successfully raised over the past few weeks, which is meant to refinance the EUR 88 million maturing USPP, which we need to repay this month. But all in all, that was a very successful transaction. Certainly, our Fitch BBB stable rating helped us to raise those EUR 119 million against competitive rates and with a weighted average tenure of about 5 years, sub-5%, if I all hedge this back into euros. And the rest of the table here, you can see that we are very comfortable within all the bank covenants. On the debt composition and maturity profile compared to the end of '23, a nice snapshot here with the 2 [ Begos ]. Clearly, you can see that we have been refinancing the green portion on the left-hand side, that is the USPP maturing. And we are also very much working now on the 2025 term loans in Belgium, which is a EUR 50 million maturing term loan and we are well on track with that to refinance that in the second half of our year. In the callout box, also not unimportant. We have been pushing up our total debt maturities from 2.9 years to 3.4 years with the new USPPs. Moving on to ESG. Another key focus for our company. We keep pushing to become future-proof as we say that -- our slide -- I'll go to the next slide. We have been further accelerating our solar and also our EV strategy. We have been generating 13% of our total energy consumption last year from our solar panels, which is, I think, a very good performance. We have 2 more solar panel projects this year in the Netherlands, which we are finalizing. I think those are on Koperwiek and Middenwaard in here in Heerhugowaard. And we are also, which is the first time we do this in 6 years, we're looking at partnerships with some of the larger supermarket chains to sell directly the electricity from the solar panels to them with a lease, by means of a lease contract. On the Green Leases, which is another focus point for us. It's also in the KPIs of the [ STI ] of our employees. That's what we're trying to push up this year to 69% to 70%, 69%-70%. Half year, we're at 68%. So that's moving in the right direction. And another, I would say, finally, a big topic for us is, obviously, the CSRD and the EU Taxonomy preparations. We need to be ready by the end of this year, basically, to start reporting in compliance with CSRD and EU Taxonomy from 2025. Our management agenda finally before we open this up for questions, I think a very similar picture from what we have seen -- what we have shown you last time. I think we are very much on track with the first 4 topics as you can see here. And on the phase-out of France, we are -- we keep pushing and keep searching for the right moment to divest our 2 remaining French centers. And obviously, we have been derisking the balance sheet very significantly, but we keep also pushing on the longer term to push our net LTV below the 40%. And with that, I hand it back to Matthijs and open it up for questions, I think.

Thank you, Dennis, and thank you for listening. We have a first question from Amal from Degroof Petercam. A few questions from my side. Are you considering a reverse merger like the one announced by [ Fastnet ]? That is a question we can deal with immediately. I think Fastnet can speak for themselves. I think they have a different strategic rationale to do this versus us. So at the moment, we're not working on a merger. I think if you look at the cost side, we have already achieved a lot of cost savings in Belgium, about EUR 1.3 million recurring cost savings that we already communicated on previously. And again, these are recurring. In addition to that, if you look at our marginal cost of debt and the spread we are achieving on our unsecured financing, as Dennis was mentioning, it is approaching the Belgian levels. So I think also from a financing perspective, apologies, there's not a lot of upside here for us. I'll leave it with that. Do you think the level of OCR for fashion and footwear retailers is sustainable? I think Fashion, 15%, 16%, yes, that is sustainable because that is a mix between some of the discount fashion retailers, but also some of the higher-priced fashion retailers. I think once this becomes above 20%, yes, we still have 1 or 2 local examples, which are above 20%, but we will deal with that, we will replace them. I think that is sustainable. Same story for the footwear, Amal. Question for Dennis. How do you see average financing costs evolving in the second half of the year?

Yes. Good question, Amal. We are at 3.46%, like I said in the presentation, at this point in time. We do obviously see that moving up given the fact, for example, that our -- given the fact, for example, that our -- our latest USPP, we were able to raise at sub-5%, at 4.95% to be exact. I do expect that to move up. So by the end of this year, my estimate would be that we will be closer to 4%.

And the last question also from Amal. When do you foresee French asset disposals? Yes, like we've been commenting, Amal, also in the press release, the French investment market is very quiet at the moment. I think in the second half of the year, you can expect news about Dutch disposals and/or joint ventures. But in France, it's going very slow. Of course, eventually, that investment market will also pick up. And at the right time, we will sell the last 2 franchisees. Then I look at the questions and I don't see any further questions. If you have additional questions, please type them in the text box and we will deal with them. I'll give it another minute. Another question from Amal. Could you give some color on the type of assets you have put on the market for sale in terms of size, but also profile, transformed or not? Certainly, I think one asset that we are selling is a completed Full Service Center, I would say average size. One of them is a center which is 100% occupied, but one that we cannot turn into a Full Service Center, which is our strategy. So that has always been in the halt or sell bucket in our IRR framework. And the asset where we are talking about a potential joint venture is also a Full Service Center. Then we have another question on the financial side, Dennis, from [ Mrs. ] or [ Mr. Singh ]. How can your debt profile improve by lending more money?

That is obviously a good question. I mean, if I look at our debt profile and if we look at our balance sheet, we've been in very choppy waters back in 2018, '19 when both Matthijs and I started. We had very little liquidity. We had some issues with at the time or discussions, at least with our auditors about going concern. So it was a very weak balance sheet at that time and through a number of disposals for French, but also the 5 on the Dutch side. But also by raising longer-term debt, we have been able to strengthen our balance sheet. And our debt profile, I think, in the very end is also managed by the maturities. We are now moving from 2.9, less than 3 years maturities into the 3.4 maturities. And if I also look at the latest, I would say, EUR 119 million USPP raised, which was in the very end at sub-5% interest rates, I think you can speak about an improving debt profile.

Thank you, Dennis. We have a question from [ Alex Costoven ]. Is the current EPRA cost ratio of 24% a good base case assumption going forward? Or will you aim for further improvement and get the ratio down more? Maybe you can comment on that, Dennis.

Yes. Yes. Thank you for the question. Yes, well, as you can see, we came from about 31% EPRA cost ratio. I think the focus is always on the direct [ GenX ] site. That's the recurring GenX we see every year coming. And that is to a point at this time that I think there's not much lower that we can get. I mean, it will be around this EUR 10 million, EUR 10.5 million going forward, which is, I think, fine in itself, but then you need to focus also on your indirect costs. And that's what we have been doing over the past year and that's how we've been pushing down mostly our EPRA cost ratio to the 24%. I think it's not far from, let's say, the internal target we've set ourselves around 22%, 23%. So I think we are on the right track.

Thank you, Dennis. Then we have 3 questions from Steven Boumans from ABN ODDO. First question, I see you have reiterated your full year 2025 EUR 1.75 guidance, so not for this year, but for next year? That's correct, Steven. What are the main assumptions here in like-for-like growth, average cost of debt, whether it includes any acquisitions or disposals? So what we can mention, Steven, is that in this assumption for full year 2025, we have not included any acquisitions or disposals. Please bear in mind, if we would sell in the French market, but also in the Dutch market, I think it's likely that that will be certainly in the Dutch market and yield sub-6% and don't forget that the last drawings in our RCF were also around 6%, I think.

Yes.

Yes. So if we use the proceeds to redeem that, there is no impact on earnings. But again, in our assumptions, we have not included those. For the average cost of debt, of course, we've already done the refinancing and we've already achieved the Fitch BBB stable rating. We're not counting on any further ECB rate cuts, Steven, or on further lowering on the low end tail of the yield curve. So that would be upside, of course, if that would happen. Finally, the like-for-like growth for the second half of the year, what you will see and I think that is also your second question, are you still on track for 5% like-for-like rental growth for H2 2024? For the second half, we do expect indeed 5%. The Dutch figure is already there. In Belgium, of course, the first half was impacted by the bankruptcies. But now with the least bankruptcies, they are almost all done and I'm quite confident after the summer break, they're all signed. We're very confident that we can achieve that, Steven. For 2025, we only pencil in inflation in terms of like-for-like rental growth, Steven, no increase in occupancy and also no positive or negative based on what you think is going to happen, leasing spreads. Finally, a question for Dennis. You state the balance sheet is decreasing several times, but the actual EPRA LTV is increasing. Can you give some color on where you expect the EPRA LTV to end by year-end 2024? And I think the current EPRA LTV is about 48%, yes.

48%. Yes. Okay. Yes. Well, that's a good question, Steven. So we keep working, as you know, on our -- on lowering our LTV. We measure ourselves mostly by the net LTV that is to me the important KPI. But certainly, also by the fact that we've been seeing positive revaluations over the past, I would say, now 2 years is helping us, of course, to lower our EPRA LTV. The fact that we keep looking also for acquisitions, which are equity-backed with our contribution in kind mandate that we have from the AGM is -- will be helping also to contribute to that. And obviously, finally, I would say, the disposals in France, timing is always uncertain, given what Matthijs was just saying. But by targeting also a few Dutch disposals, we do believe that we can push that EPRA LTV down from the current 48% to the -- let's say, sub-45%.

Next question is from [ Nico Inberg ]. What would be the impact on your interest costs if the ECB cuts another quarter point? Good question. I think we have a number of facilities, Nico, which are directly linked to the short end of the curve, the Euribor because we do quite short-term drawings on those facilities. I think that is the Dutch EUR 250 million revolving credit facility.

Yes. Plus EUR 50 million, so that's EUR 300 million. That's mostly so -- yes, indeed, floating, our floating portion is about 23% from top of my head. So out of the EUR 986 million, you could basically calculate yourself what the impact more or less would be. But yes, so that's on the floating side, of course, from our debt portfolio.

Then we have a question from [indiscernible]. Any possible acquisitions in Belgium? LTV is very low. That's correct indeed. Biggest CapEx is behind us, more room. Well, because the CapEx is low at the moment in Belgium, but we still have some projects to complete. We're working on a redevelopment of the retail park in Bruges. There will also be a plan for turnout. Liege is coming, Nivelles, we will start the works next year. So there is also still some CapEx to come in Belgium. Having said that, indeed, yes, Belgium is a very logical market for us to grow the portfolio. We have an established team. We have reorganized the company last year. As you know, we commented on that in the full year 2023 results. So I think, yes, we're ready for growth of the Belgium portfolio. And indeed, it's a market we know very well and we have the right balance sheet in Belgium to do so. Then we have a question from Benjamin Legrand. Regarding valuations, Belgium has increased by close to 5%. Your EPRA net initial yield is now below 6% for Belgium. Are valuers considering further ERV growth and how come Belgium is now different in terms of net initial yield versus Netherlands while they were close to each other before? I think, Benjamin, it's always important to realize the difference in EPRA net initial yield versus the cap rate that valuers are assuming. Don't forget that the EPRA net initial yield in Belgium in the first half of 2024 is also impacted by the vacancies. If there is no rent coming from certain units, that has an immediate impact on that EPRA net initial yield. So the EPRA net initial yield in Belgium will go up again in the second half of the year, but that will not have a negative impact on valuations. Is there still room for ERV growth in Belgium? I think the answer is yes. We're still leasing way above ERV. We're now getting some of the credits from the valuers, both in Belgium and in the Netherlands, by the way. But we think that in the second half of the year, there is more room for growth. On the yield side, on the cap rate side, of course, we will see what's going to happen, first and foremost, with the interest rates. Then we have a question from [ Heidi Fricke ]. Do you have a view on Hammerson value retail transaction in terms of market conditions, pricing? No, I don't have a view on that, Heidi. I leave that to the analysts and to Hammerson itself. So I'll leave it with that. Why is it so important to rotate capital out of the Netherlands is a question from Nico Inberg. It's 2 reasons, Nico. First of all, fiscal, we are losing the REIT regime as of 2025. So we will start paying corporate income tax in the Netherlands. We do have quite some significant tax loss carry-forwards from the past, which we can use, of course, but we rather use that on a smaller portfolio than on a bigger portfolio. Secondly, I think it's also interesting after some positive valuation sessions to prove to the market that we can sell a Full Service Center at or probably even above those market valuations. So it's in cash and not on paper. Nico has another question. You're planning on selling 2 shopping centers in the Netherlands. Are these fit to transform into Full Service Centers? Or is that not a criteria? I think we already answered that one, Nico, but maybe you came in later. One is a completed Full Service Center. One is an asset that we cannot transform indeed and the joint venture discussion is also on the completed Full Service Center. Then I see again the questions from Steven coming in, but I think we already answered those on the like-for-like and on the guidance for 2025. So I'll give you a few more seconds if there are any further questions. Yes, we have another one from Benjamin Legrand. Your average ERV is up from EUR 241 to EUR 231 -- I think it's the other way around, over the past 6 months? That's correct. Could you please let us know what was the ERV growth in Belgium, France and the Netherlands? On top of my head, that's Page 40 of the deck that was to skip a bit forward. I don't know if the operator can show this slide also to you, I hope so. But otherwise, I refer to the presentation on the website, Page 40, Benjamin. Here, you can see the breakdown of the valuation result and I think the numbers speak for themselves. All right. Well, then I don't see any further questions coming in. Thank you very much for the attendance. I can see on the screen, we had a record number of attendees, which is good. So there's a lot of interest in the company. Thank you for that. Thank you for your time. Also thanks for all the questions from the investors and analysts. I hope everyone has a fantastic summer break and we'll see you back in September after the summer. Thank you.

Thank you.