Wesdome Gold Mines Ltd. (WDO) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to Wesdome Gold Mines Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2022 Financial Results Conference Call. I will hand the call over to Heather Laxton to begin today's call.

Great. Thanks, operator, and good morning, everyone. Thanks for joining us today. Before we begin, we'd like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that during this call, we will discuss our business outlook and make forward-looking statements. These comments are based on our predictions and expectations as of today. Actual events or results could cause outcomes to differ materially due to a number of risks and uncertainties, including those mentioned in the detailed cautionary note contained in yesterday's press release and in the company's management discussion and analysis dated February 22, 2023. Both documents are available on our website and on SEDAR. Please note that all figures discussed on this call are in Canadian dollars, unless otherwise stated. The slides used for this presentation and a recording of this call will be posted on the company's website. And now it's over to Lindsay Dunlop, Vice President of Investor Relations.

Thanks, Heather. Speaking on the call today will be Board Chair and Interim CEO, Warwick Morley-Jepson; COO, Fred Langevin; CFO, Scott Gilbert; and Vice President, Exploration, Mike Michaud. Also on the call today is Raj Gill, Vice President, Corporate Development. Warwick will open up our call.

Good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining us today. To those I have yet not met, I have been involved with the company since 2017, and then currently in Board Chair and Interim CEO. By way of background, I am an operator with over 35 years' experience in deep level underground gold mines, including several years working in Russia in comparable climates and conditions as Northern Canada. I am intimately familiar with the operations of Wesdome, and I've moved my home base to Toronto and will remain here until a permanent CEO is hired and settled in. While 2022 was a challenging year in many ways, our accomplishments we are very proud of is putting a second mine into production, funded almost entirely from internal generated cash flow. The guidance we have provided for 2023 is achievable, and our production is weighted more heavily in the second half of the year. The work we are doing this year is setting up the company for a strong 2024 and beyond. Fred will now provide a detailed review of our operations. Over to you, Fred.

Hi, everyone, and thank you for calling in this morning. Starting with Eagle in Q4, we achieved excellent production rates from the underground mine with an excess of 62,000 tonnes of ore moves. This quarterly throughput from the underground mine is the result of improved ventilation after the commissioning of the 520 Level booster fans earlier this year, combined with operational efficiency measures put forth in H2. Q4 numbers contributed to achieving a new productivity record for the underground mine with a total of 231,000 tonnes of ore moved in 2022. Rate in Q4 came in slightly above expectations as a result of some very high grade production from the Falcon Zone starting in November with one particular stop yielding almost 14,000 tonnes of 28 grams per tonne material over the 2 months of November and December. Unfortunately, a significant part of the high grade ore produced in December could not be sent to the mill before the end of the quarter to be processed, as the major winter storm that rolled over most of Canada at the end of December caused both closures at site, with complete interruption of the flow of ore from the mine to the mill for several days. This resulted in the operations ending the year with approximately 6,000 tonnes of ore at 18 branches on less on processed until later in January. At Kiena, the Kiena ore achieved record throughput in the restart of operations in Q4 with 35% more tonnes processed than previous best established in Q4 of 2021. The lower grades achieved during the quarter were due to the source of ore, whereby limited production capacity in Kiena Deep processed the supplement production from the lower grade Martin, S50 and VC zones. Low rates are expected to continue into 2023, as we will continue to supply the mill with lower grade ore from those zones, to supplement the Kiena Deep material that will be available to mine, which is now mostly lower grade fringe material and diluted ore from previously mined areas. Despite Q4 being a miss on the production side, our team was able to achieve key milestones instrumental to the successful ramp-up of mining activities into 2023 and beyond. First, the pastefill plant was successfully commissioned and delivered to production in November. The plant has been operating since performing in line with expectations. Pastefill has always been identified as a critical component to the successful mining at Kiena Deep. Now that it is available to the operation, it helps reduce stand up time, minimizing the risk of instability. It also helps better controlling dilution and will allow for a more rapid overall extraction sequence. Demonstrating the viability of the pastefill plant was the final element for Kiena to meet its commercial production criteria and commercial production was declared on December 1. As more development at Kiena, a lot of very good things that happened in Q4. Now that the pastefill plant is online, operators and equipment previously allocated the cemented rock fill operations have been freed up and reallocated to production and more importantly, to development activities. Also, the team was very resourceful given the very competitive market and successfully sourced rental bolting equipment critical to achieving development rates. As a result, we now have 3 rental [ mechanized ] bolters underground. We also took delivery in Q4 of the first of our 2 long delayed [indiscernible], bringing our total underground fleet of bolting equipment to 4, 2 more than the PFS call for. This redundancy that we now have will guarantee that we have the required capacity to offset availability of parts issues as we're still facing supply chain challenges for mobile equipment repair parts. All of this, combined with the ventilation upgrades completed at the end of Q3, resulted in our team at site achieving the site's best quarterly development performance to date in Q4, like lines development in the ramp the Kiena Deep itself has exceeded expectations. And as a result, we have started 2023 ahead of our budget schedule, and we have continued to exceed budgeted development rates in the ramp in January. We are, therefore, very well positioned as we entered 2023, and the team at site is laser focused on execution of the ramp. As the slide is showing, the mining method requires us to develop the ramp going down multiple levels to accept the lower level of new mining blocks to then proceed to mine these blocks upwards. So even though development of the ramp is currently tracking ahead of budget, the benefits of overperforming are not immediate and unlikely to change 2023 in terms of assets, but it will provide earlier access to the 129 mining block to achieve 2024 production. Over to you, Scott.

Thanks, Fred. In Q4 2022, Wesdome sold 31,500 ounces of gold, which generated $75 million. The cash margin was $26.5 million. The cash generated from operations was $10.3 million, and the free cash outflow was $31.6 million. We incurred $3.2 million in capital spending, which included $26.5 million at Kiena. At December 31, 2022, the liquidity position was approximately $130 million, which includes $33 million of cash and equivalents, and $95 million undrawn under the credit facility. We established an ATM equity program on December 2, 2022, which allows the company to issue and sell up to $100 million of common shares from hedging. We are using an ATM as it incurs lower commissions and can be used opportunistically. In December, the ATM was only active for approximately half of the available base and the company raised $13.1 million of gross proceeds by issuing approximately 1.6 million common shares at an average price of $8.21 per share. Shares cannot be issued through the ATM program, while the company is in a blackout period. For Wesdome's internal policy, this typical period extends 6 weeks post quarter end. At the end of 2022, the company has drawn $55 million from the credit facility and the variable interest rate is approximately 7.6%. Over to you, Mike.

Thanks, Scott. At Kiena, we continue to be pleased with the underground exploration drilling results at 3 main targets: First, at the down plunge extension of the A Zone, recent drilling has extended the zone an additional 125 meters down plunge. One hole returned to 24 grams per tonne hole over 4 meters true thickness. Second, at the Footwall zones, infill drilling continues to better define these lenses and increase our confidence in the geologic model. Based on our announcement of last week, many holes returned high grade, confirming previous results. One hole returned 34 grams per tonne over 22 meters core length. Third, at our most recently discovered zones, namely the South Limb of the A Zone and the 2 hanging wall for South Zones. Drilling along the South Limb of the A Zone returned 16 grams per tonne over 5.4 meters true width. Meanwhile, drilling of the hanging wall for South Zone returned a high grade of 2,850 grams per tonne gold over 1.5 meters from a core space, and also 4.1 grams per tonne gold over 22.8 meters from a silicified mafic volcanic. This discovery is significant in that mineralization occurs in the host rock, not expected to host ore mineralization in this area and because of the length of the intersection, it represents size potential. The overall drilling results not only confirm the A Zone keeps going to depth, but also that these results have the potential to increase the number of ounces per vertical meter that will provide additional working phases during mining of the A Zone. Also, the hanging wall of basalt zones occur within volcanic rocks, where the rock quality is significantly better than in the neighboring altered volcanic rocks. On surface, based on the positive drilling results at pastefill last year, the company is moving ahead with the development of an exploration ramp from surface to explore this zone. In the future, this ramp could be leveraged to easily connect Kiena's existing underground ramp network, providing access to surface for the existing operation that comes with many benefits. At Eagle River, giving you some initial challenges of forecasting of Falcon, we have completed 95 definition drill holes and several hundred meters of development on various levels to better understand the grade variability, which is being incorporated into the end-of-year resource and reserve estimates. A portion of this drilling was completed from the recently established 355-meter level, which extends approximately 400 meters west of the existing mine workings. From this level, we were able to test for continued mineralization, both upfront and in parallel zones. This drilling successfully extended the zone up plunge to service. In addition, a number of drill holes intersected mineralization in subparallel zones in the hanging wall of the Falcon 7 Zone, possibly the mine 5 and 311 Wesdome. We also are continuing to explore further to the west along strike from the Falcon 7 Zone near the historic 9 Zone with [indiscernible] volcanics, which provides confidence in contracts with surrounding basalt to provide a favorable location for gold mineralization similar to that of the mine diorite. Another exciting area, which has the same host rock volcanic at the Falcon Zone has been recently tested on the eastern side of the mine diorite. Initial surface drilling intersected altered volcanic rocks with quartz vein and visible gold. One hole returned 233 grams per tonne of 0.4 meters and follow-up will be a priority going forward. The site teams are currently updating the annual mineral resource and reserve estimates, and we expect to release in March, which is our typical time frame. Over to you, War.

Thank you, Mike. In summary, I want to underscore that Wesdome's management, including myself, are focused on delivering 2023 guidance through operational execution, and all the indications at this time are that we remain well on our way. We will need to execute on 4 fronts, most importantly, laying the groundwork for Kiena to reach its full potential. This will be driven primarily by the ramp development, which is currently tracking ahead of schedule. Once we reach to 129 level at year-end, we can then begin developing higher grade reserves, thereby starting to generate production in line with the PFS levels as well as a strong cash flow margins. Secondly, we look to accelerate the pay down of the outstanding balance on our credit facility. Wesdome has a long track record of organic funding of projects including the delivery of a second producing asset with minimal equity dilution. So while implementing the ATM tool was a difficult decision, it will allow us to limit equity issuance owing to what is absolutely necessary to reach the net cash position. Another area of focus is upgrading our internal technical bench strength within the business. Recently, there have been several very welcome hires in key operational, planning and procurement personnel. We believe that bolstering our technical strength internally will be a strategic advantage and translate to higher performance at all levels of the business. Finally, we are committed to continuing our ESG initiatives, despite having a relatively low carbon footprint for the space, we continue to drive focus and attention to defining our climate change targets and initiatives. This concludes our call today. We now open up the line for questions and answers.

[Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from the line of Ryan Walker with Echelon Partners.

Glad to hear that you've received one of the new rock bolters. What's the ETA on the second one there? And would the plan be to retain the rental units once you get both units up and running there? Or will you just go with your own units at that point?

Thanks, Ryan, for your question. I'm going to give it to Fred to give you an answer there.

Yes, the ETA for the second bolter is actually sitting at the supplier's warehouse right now. We haven't taken delivery of it right now. But it is certainly the plan as our equipment comes in. We also have 2 MacLean bolters on order. And as those equipments come in, we will definitely remove those rental equipment's that we have right now.

Okay. Great. And then you mentioned the positive grade reconciliation in the Falcon Zone. Can you quantify that at all? Is substantial positive reconciliation?

Yes. Certainly -- Fred speaking. Certainly, in Q4, we've seen very good rates coming from the Falcon. I would say, it's in the range of 30% to 50% more than we expected, especially in November and December. So we're happy with those results. It does offset some of the underperformance that we've seen earlier this year.

Great. Okay. And then just finally for me here. Any update on the -- on finding a new CEO to replace Duncan?

I could answer that for you, Ryan. We have established a search committee, which is at the Board level. It is chaired by our Chairman of the Comp and HR Committee, and he has 3 directors working alongside with him. They have established an agreement with a well-known search company, and they are currently at work compiling the mandate and the search has already started. Prior to the actual search starting, we have had a number of people, some of which are well known to the industry that have actually approached us. So that's where it is. As far as timing is concerned, our best estimate is in the order of 3 to 6 months. Why the long range 6 months, it really is dictated by any notice period that might have to be worked. So that's the best I can give you right now, and we'll just be working hard at it.

Our next question comes from the line of Andrew Mikitchook with BMO Capital Markets.

Could we just get a further maybe commentary on availability of spare parts, and I don't know, even maintenance or specialist contractors to be able to perform better than in 2022 at both mines because I think that to some degree, impacted performance?

Okay. I'll then hand this one to you, Fred, to give you some of the detail. But what I -- what we're experiencing is, I believe, a global phenomenon. Supply chain globally has been a challenge, we certainly see things turning around, but they are not quite there as to where we were prior to dependent. So I'll let you, Fred, if you could give some more color on that.

Yes, of course. So basically, the situation in 2022 was much different than this year in the sense that in 2022, we had difficulties getting the equipments at the site, which has been a challenge. Now that we have sourced those rental bolters, they are sitting at the mine, and they are operating. And so we now have 4 of those as opposed to what the PFS call for, which is 2. And so now the remaining, I would say, constraint here is really the availability of parts. And as Warwick mentioned, this is really a global phenomenon right now. That being said, with the supplier of those MacLean's, we have a same thing for the [ bolt tech ]. We have secured contracts with the suppliers to have their specialized mechanics come to the site and teach our mechanics for the best maintenance practices on these equipment's. And also the fact that we -- basically the sheer number of equipment that we've brought to site now also secures that availability to some extent. The PFS call for 2 equipment that would be available at 85%. We now have 4, so we can go down to as low as 50% availability before we see an impact, I guess, on our performance. And that is the whole rationale for sourcing more equipment really than what the PFS calls for. So we're confident that with the fleet that we have right now, we're going to be able to deliver on what we committed.

Okay. But just to confirm that you are broadly still seeing some level of constraint in spare parts, maintenance contractors even that you guys are trying to adjust plans to that situation?

That's exactly right, Andrew. See, the items that would typically be on the shelves of the OEMs prior to the pandemic are not as complete as one would see right now. And so as a result of that, we've addressed it in a number of ways. One, we are in discussions with OEMs to ensure that they or ourselves hold those parts and make sure that they are available. Two, we've got extra complete machines, as Fred described, that ensure that the collective gives us sufficient access to machinery working at the optimum efficiency. And then thirdly, addressing our own inventory is something that we have to consider increasing, but certainly, it would not be a responsibility that we want to take away entirely from the OEMs.

And maybe 2 very quick additional questions. Can you provide any commentary on whether we should expect a continued drawdown for at least part of '23 on the debt facility, as you continue to advance Kiena and covering the expenses involved in that? And secondly, what would be the scale of the cost of this ramp on per scale?

Okay. Let me just start with the cost of the ramp what per scale. It is included in our budget for 2023. It is a lot of ramp specifically to into per scale and to mine it, but rather an exploration facility that gives us access underground to drilling platforms, so that we can have better access at the right elevation into that ore body. That 6 million is catered for in our current capital program. As far as the drawdown is concerned, you will notice that we were able to maintain our position of $55 million from Q3 into Q4. Going forward, it very much depends, as you would expect on our cost program, maintaining of our cost program, the ounces that we are able to produce ahead of budget. And certainly, that is always our objective. And then thirdly, the gold price. I mean at the start of this year, you would have seen that we had at $1,920 an ounce, which certainly that helped us a great deal, but it didn't take long to get down to current levels, which are nearly in an $100 an ounce lower. And we are seeing a sensitivity of almost $20 million per $100 an ounce variance. So keeping those issues in mind, we will continue to maintain our position on our revolver as long as we can, but there's a -- we've got moving inputs and outputs as you would expect. Does that answer your question?

Yes.

Our next question comes from the line of Wayne Lam with RBC.

Yes. I guess just wondering -- maybe at Eagle River, can you give us an idea of the percentage of ore planned from the Falcon Zone this year? And then just given the variability in grade, has there been anything you've been able to green in terms of improving the internal block modeling? And do you feel, given the grades that you've seen in the early part of this year, do you feel there's a level of conservatism baked into the guidance?

Okay. There's multiple directed questions there. So I'm going to first give it to Fred to talk to that one, and then Mike, you can talk a little bit around what we saw with the significant number of holes that we drilled into the Falcon Zone earlier last year. Fred?

Yes. So we are going to be sourcing about 30% of the ounces in 2023 from the Falcon Zone. So this is a much lower proportion than would have been included into our 2022 budget. So Mike, if you can talk about the grade, I guess.

Yes, certainly, when we look back at the Falcon when we drill this off, certainly, in our press release is shows that the number of high grade hits that we had. And one of the things that going into a new zone, I would say that maybe we didn't have as much field development that are in front of us when we went into that zone or as part of our forecasting and relied a bit more on diamond drilling, and that sort of caused us a problem to forecast didn't correct, I would say in the early part of the year. To fix that problem, we've certainly gone back in. We've done a lot of field development, and we've added another 95 holes for about 20 -- just over 20,000 meters. And we have a much better feel for the local variability in grade, and we've been able to incorporate that into our budgeting and to our forecasting. And now we're incorporating that into our end of year resource and reserve estimate there. So I certainly feel more comfortable with the additional data and our understanding of the deposit now than we were a year ago.

Thanks, Mike. I think, Wayne, and just to emphasize the fact that there's a large nugget effect here. There's also a large component of free gold. We are seeing both strings and around the bus some months, we are certainly seeing a higher grade variability, and then months that follow low grade. What -- the drilling has helped us to do is to understand that variability to a much greater extent and to predict our gold production through 2023.

Okay. Perfect. It sounds like some good progress being made. I guess on the balance sheet, just wondering what's the level of working capital required to fund the ongoing operations? And then just given the working capital deficit and the spend remaining at Kiena, how aggressive do you plan to be on the ATM? Or will you look to fully draw down the facility before ramping up on the equity?

Okay, I'm going to hand over to Scott to talk about the balance sheet and our working capital position. But just as far as the ATM is concerned, we do understand that in the eyes of many, it is not the preferred route. I think from a point of where we sit as a company, we needed to understand how we can ensure our continued liquidity, the revolver whilst we have the ceiling of $150 million, it doesn't come cheap, and it certainly is obviously a large cost component to our operating expenses. What we would prefer to do is to draw down the revolver to the point that we can become cash neutral. And in doing that, we certainly are in a position to use the ATM very prudently to ensure that it is done at opportune times. And at a time where funds are required and that we don't sit in a position where we've drawn down more than what we acquired. So we need to demonstrate diligence, which I believe to date, we've done exactly that. And it is a tool, as I say, that we find necessary to have at this point in time, nothing would make me happier then to closed that out. However, I don't see that happening in the immediate short-term, given that we have got a -- we have got debt to deal with and we need to ensure the flexibility of the company. And lastly, I would say, this issue of the unknowns. The gold price is playing a significant role in our liquidity, and we need to ensure that we can deal with large fluctuations in the event of them coming. Scott, would you like to comment on the working capital?

Yes. Thank you, War. As you mentioned, it has commenced since last year. And a lot of that is just a result of building out Kiena as we've guided commercial side an extraction now. We still have some significant spending going forward. But with the revolver and the ATM, both of those tools will assist us in that controlling our working capital. So we feel that we're well positioned for 2023 to execute on our plan based on having be secure.

Okay. Great. And then maybe just last one. Just on the upcoming reserve update, should we expect any impact or perhaps a more conservative reserve grade at Eagle River, given what you've learned through mining to date with the reconciliation?

Yes. Mike, would you love to comment on that?

Certainly. We certainly are incorporating that into the resource estimate going forward. We want to make sure we're looking at all the resources and reserves that we want to make sure that we're -- have the same level of comfort everywhere. And if anything is widely spaced drilled, we might back off the confidence level of that and continue more drilling throughout 2023. We have a healthy budget to do the infill drilling and expansion drilling. But really, we're working through that now. We'll be releasing that shortly.

Okay. Great. Look forward to it. Good luck in the year ahead.

Our next question comes from the line of Michael Fairbairn with Canaccord Genuity.

Great. Two for me. I wanted to start at Eagle. Just taking a look at guidance that was previously released, it does seem to imply only a very modest increase in throughput from Eagle in 2023 relative to '22 and '21. I know in the past; you've talked about ramping up that throughput towards 800 tonnes a day. I just wanted to see if that's still the longer-term goal, and if you can provide any color on the longer-term ramp-up plans there?

Okay. I'm going to hand this one to Fred. But I think what we also must be very aware of is -- the fact that we are mining in an area which is at a similar depth to what we did in 2021 and 2020 in the 300 Zone, and the 300 Zone in comparison to that of the Falcon Zone did carry higher grades. And so those higher grades, whilst at the similar tonnages did give us the overall output of Eagle River close to the 100,000 ounce per annum mark. So there is that difference, but certainly, our objective of filling the mill has always been there. And so let me hand over to Fred, and I'm not be able to give you some understanding -- Fred will give you some understanding of the other areas that Mike has been drilling into, which might contributes to larger production going forward.

Yes. So Fred speaking. The current bottleneck at Eagle is really on -- really ventilation in the total amount of material that we can truck and hoist from the mine as the mine is getting deeper, investing for us as well is that recent extension of the Falcon Zone towards surface. This, of course, is away from that congested area. It is also much shallower. So this has the potential for us to add that shallower production away from congested -- currently congested areas. And so we're going to be very keen on looking at the results in that area.

Okay. Perfect. And just one more for me around Kiena. You've mentioned how you expect the Kiena costs are going to move closer to those outlined in the PFS in 2024 once you get into higher grade areas with the barring any inflationary pressures. Wondering if you can quantify the level of inflation that you've seen at Kiena from the PFS?

Okay. I -- clearly, the inflationary areas that we focus on primarily labor, number one. And we've seen certainly the increases in the cost of labor have escalated, if we compare that to the period 2018 to 2021. Certainly, we saw 2.5% in those years. We're now seeing closer to 4.5% this year. The second point being electrical power and energy. Certainly there has been escalations on the diesel-generated underground mining equipment. So the consumption certainly has been affected. We have been very fortunate on the electrical side that -- given that we are fed from the national grid that cost has been pretty consistent. And then into the procurement area where we see a lot of our consumable's explosives and underground support drilling equipment, certainly, those items have certainly increased as well. And there's been a variation of anything from 5% to 15% on -- across in different commodity types or not commodity or part type consumables. And so to give you an understanding of what escalation you could put on to the numbers that we have in the PFS would be challenging right now, what I have said in many of my discussions with the investors and analysts is that we certainly would be coming in below $1,000 an ounce in Kiena, that's for sure. The numbers that we have in the PFS will certainly be worked on during the course of this year, and it is a number that we need to come out and supply yourselves in the second half of 2023.

And just to confirm, is that $1,000 an ounce cash cost or all-in sustaining costs?

That certainly volume sustaining cost.

Our next question comes from the line of John Tumazos with John Tumazos Very Independent Research LLC.

First, looking at the 35,000 ounces, you just produced in the December quarter, 25,000 at Eagle, 10,000 at Kiena. How much is the abnormal output from good grades in the Falcon Zone with the normal output have been, say, 18,000 at Eagle and 10,000 at Kiena.

Thanks for your question, John. A little challenging to answer that with any definite accuracy. But Fred, have you got any thoughts on that?

Well, I would say that the run rate at Eagle's, I would say the normal run rate at Eagle would be in the range of 20,000 ounces per quarter. And the normal run rate that we expect from Kiena is more in the range of 7,500 per quarter based on the reserves that we currently have developed. This is certainly expected to pick up at Kiena in -- as we develop that ramp and then get access to that higher grade new mining horizon in 129.

If I could ask a second question. A business problem is that your share price trades like Kiena as a liability and not an asset, or the market seems to think the project is farcical. I know that might just be a short-term market psychology, but those of us that might own your stock feels the pain. Why not -- I know this might seem reckless to you, but why not borrow money and buy in your stock right now? Kill the ATM, draw down your credit lines and have confidence in your bodies and your personnel in your business plan?

Well, thanks for that question, John. Let me, first of all, say that in my current position, I have extreme confidence in personnel, the team and the plans that we have put together, it was asked that we -- within my first week of arriving here in this interim CEO position, whether I was going to change guidance. And I had a -- and a standing move emphasizing that as a Board member, we were all party to the guidance that management had recommended. We provided oversight and we believe that, that is achievable, and we are setting out to do exactly that. As far as how the market might be thinking of Kiena, it is very unfortunate. I believe that the explanations that we've given as to why we have lost the time we have are honest to and they certainly can be verified at any time. The issue of going forward and buying stock at a time where it is increasingly more important to ensure the liquidity of the company, it really is one that we are using the tools that we have, which are typically used within the industry and to bring Kiena to a position that we know it can achieve in 2024. I think everyone, including ourselves, are very excited with the exploration work that has been done on the A Zone as we progressively move down with the decline, we would also be drilling laterally into the ore body to better define both its volume as well as grade. And so through that period, we expect that we're going to increase our level of confidence. And that when we get out to 129 level, which, as we've said, will be at the end of this year, develop that level and then start mining up that the position we're in now will change dramatically. We want to be in a position in 2024 that we are not paying down debt, but we are -- we have opportunities ahead for us to grow the company. And we are seeing where we've been. And we know that we can make up from where we are right now as far as our share price is concerned. We're not happy where it is. And certainly, I personally and I don't want to affect anyone's influence or thinking on this call. I certainly believe personally that it is a stock that I want to buy more of -- and that's the confidence that I have, and I am convinced the rest of this executive do have as well.

Thank you for your very earnest response. If you would bear with me for a little more. Sometimes the concept of having a CEO is a little overrated. Fortescue Metals, a $40 billion company had the CEO spot vacant for over a year in the past year. And it might eliminate one layer and shorten communications and save a budget item to have the CEO vacant. So from my standpoint as a shareholder, it's not the biggest problem. Now during this juncture where you don't have a CEO, it's also possible to consider other strategic alternatives in the context of the situation where the stock is trading like Kiena is a liability and not an asset. Now across the Street, practically, you've got El Dorado, which operates in Greece and Turkey. And I can speak from personal experience about how difficult those creeks are, I was asked to get an archeological permit to renovate my grandmother's house and I gave up. In the course of your CEO search, are you going to call people across the Street and ask them if they'll give you $150 million for Kiena? It might simplify a couple of problems. You wouldn't have to worry so much about debt and the stock would double instantly.

Yes. Maybe I can answer that by saying that Kiena is an opportunity within Wesdome is significantly greater than the value that you ascribed there, John. I think the fact that the market saw great value in it taking us to our company to share prices in which it did in 2022, demonstrates that fact. And so, our job right now is to focus on delivery. You know that there has been a loss of trust for the -- what happened in 2022. And so it's our job to make sure that we regain that position. And I'm very confident that not only will the team be able to achieve that, but also, we have the assets and know-how on how to bring the full potential of Kiena to the table. And so that is our focus area. As far as whether a CEO is a necessary entity within a company, I think from a legal point of view, there's a few issues to consider. And certainly, from a leadership point of view on driving any entity forward, one needs to have someone at the top who is pulling all the streams. And so I think that we need to consider that in what you said there -- thanks very much for your comments, John.

I'm a shareholder. I'm rooting for you, and you don't need a CEO, if you can sell the company for a good price.

I'm not sure that our shareholders would want that for -- us to give it away at least. So yes, thanks very much for your comments, John.

Thank you. This concludes the Q&A session. Thank you for your participation. This concludes today's call. You may now disconnect.