Wienerberger AG (WIE) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. I'm Stewart, your Chorus Call operator. Welcome, and thank you for joining the conference call on Wienerberger's Results on the Full Year 2021. [Operator Instructions] I would now like to turn the conference over to Daniel Merl from Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

Thank you, operator. Hello, ladies and gentlemen, I'm Daniel from IR. A warm welcome to the Wienerberger Earnings Call and the Full Year Results 2021. Our Board representatives today are our CEO, Mr. Heimo Scheuch; and our CFO, Mr. Gerhard Hanke. Heimo will walk you through the presentation and talk about our accomplishments in the business year 2021 and our expectations for the year 2022. After the presentation, as always, we are ready to take your questions. I will now hand over to Mr. Scheuch.

Daniel, thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, a welcome from Vienna from the whole Wienerberger team. Thank you for being on the call, and we will briefly walk you through the presentation. All of you have received it. Highlight some of the major events, Gerhard and myself and then are obviously ready your questions. If we look at 2021, it was a year that was to be characterized by geopolitical instability, by a lot of issues when it comes to the supply chain, by inflationary cost increases and especially also, in this context, by sharp increases in energy costs. Obviously, we had also the COVID-19 pandemic and certain shortage of labor. So I would characterize the year as rather volatile one. I say this because, obviously, the same trends you will see also in 2022, and we are continuing to operate in such an environment. All in all, we are very happy at Wienerberger that we handled this environment well. It shows clearly that we, at Wienerberger, have a local business model. We operate locally, a value creation locally, supply of our raw material is local because we mine our local clays when it comes to the clay part of our business, and we are embedded in a local supply chain. So this is, I think, very important to mention. Also to mention before we start the business as such, we, meaning the more than 17,000 people, from the COVID perspective, brought them through safely and healthy again to 2021. So I think from a perspective of general environmental issues here, a good setting. Let me say also one thing, which is very important in this context. We still and will continue to work hard on our product portfolio, which is very innovative for the sector. We are probably 1 of the companies that has the most innovative product portfolio in the whole building materials sector with more than 30% innovative products and with 15% system solutions already, and we want to increase this, as you all know, in the near future. 2021 from a financial perspective, we have seen 18% in turnover, and I will come to the organic growth in a minute, but it is essentially coming from organic growth again, and this shows our strong business model that comes and relates to, over the last decade, essentially to organic growth. We have generated cash with more than EUR 200 million -- EUR 420 million free cash flow. So a strong increase again. EBITDA margin, up again also to 17.5%. And when you look at all the other KPIs in the company, from self-help to all this cost management, very strong performance, again, which adds up to nearly EUR 700 million of EBITDA reported for the whole year. In this year 2001, and I think it marks a turning point for Wienerberger. A turning point in the sense that we, obviously, are growing also strongly with M&A. We have invested in M&A or dedicated to M&A, nearly EUR 0.5 billion of acquisitions in North America and Europe, and have already successfully started the integration of the acquisition. I will come to this in a minute. When you look at the overall performance, we have also, financially speaking, repaid the hybrid last year. So we have returned to investors, equity and -- equity-related investors was to have re-bond nearly EUR 300 million, EUR 70 million dividend and 200 -- or nearly EUR 230 million of hybrid. So a strong repayment to our investors. And again, we propose this year to increase by 25%, our dividend to EUR 0.75 a share. So again, a very disciplined management when it comes to the debt side of the business with 1.6x EBITDA to net debt. I think we have shown that we care about the sort of debt and the ratio on the EBITDA to net debt. Financially is one part of Wienerberger's performance. But also on the ESG front, we have again shown we are committed in making a difference, a difference in the industry that we operate in. And also when I compare ourselves to our peer group. I think we're the only company right now that has short-term and clear short-term targets out there, and we have, again, managed to reduce our CO2 emissions by an impressive 88%. 88% of CO2 emissions compared to 2020. So this puts us perfectly in line with our midterm target in '23 with 15% reduction. And again, when I come later to the long-term target, here again, Wienerberger has set already the right targets and the right way forward. Circular economy and biodiversity, obviously, are strong on our agenda. Let me come, 1 second, to the M&A side of the business. When Wienerberger does the M&A deals, and I compare the deals throughout the industry again. From a payback perspective and the multiple, I look at the U.S. and Canadian acquisition and now being the leader in facing solutions in ceramic facing solutions in the North American market. We have realized here a wonderful transaction in the sense of easy to integrate manufacturing-wise, sales-wise, admin-wise and obviously, the teams are on the ground, already working. And we are confident, from Wienerberger side, that we have here an EBITDA multiple of around 4x with such an acquisition. So again, creating impressive value on the short term. The one in Europe, essentially in the U.K. and Ireland, when we come to the piping part of our business shows, again, the commitment to be -- of Wienerberger to move into high-margin business in the piping and in the RMI market in U.K. and Ireland. To be, here, a significant player when it comes to solutions around water, on the roof, in the house and around the house. And again, here, we see after nearly 6 months into this acquisition, that we can realize significant synergies, not only on the cost side, but especially also with cross-selling, selling to our clients, the big housing companies in the U.K. and Ireland. So again, here, also a 7x multiple shows here the strong commitment of Wienerberger to realize value. All in all, when I look and I would like to take you to this aspect of looking over a decade, not just a quarter, not just the year, but the decade. From where we developed Wienerberger in 2012 to 2021. With a growth rate of 6% a year annual growth rate compared to the GDP growth rate in North America and in Europe weighted, obviously, about 2%. So an impressive way of a long-term outgrowing these economies and this, by organic growth. And this means that we have significantly turned around the company from a company focusing on new residential housing market only, back in the beginning of 2010, '11 and '12, to a company that has now a much stronger resilient portfolio focusing also on renovation and in the infrastructure. And so I think when you look at renovation being about 30% of our turnover and infrastructure about 22%, we see here already the strong move in these 2 fields, which makes us more resilient and obviously, contribute positively to the margin and overall EBITDA performance. And obviously, marking the EUR 4 billion turnover shows clearly that we are moving fast in our overall growth and have, over this decade, certainly outperformed a lot of companies that are active in our sector. And with this, I would like to hand over to Gerhard, who will look a little bit more you into the figures. Gerhard?

Thank you, Heimo. Ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon. Before we start with the 2021 figures, I would like to give you a short overview on the development of the outstanding 3 last months of 2021, because we were outstanding in the sense of demand. Demand was much stronger than we originally expected. We -- maybe some of you remember that during the Capital Market Day, that we gave a kind of forecast for the last quarter and this was clearly outperformed. And the main reasons for this outperformance was the strong demand, mainly on the Building Solutions side, were also supported by the mild weather. We had strong demand basically in all product categories, but especially in the roof and renovation sector of last year. And next to that, which also we're strongly outperforming in the fourth quarter, was still the piping segment, the North American or the U.S. piping segment, which also outperformed and showed again a new record result also in the fourth quarter. And this finally led to an EBITDA, which is with EUR 160 million, clearly above also what we expected for the fourth quarter. As Heimo just mentioned, we had an exceptional year 2021. And looking to the business units, we'll do a short deep dive to the business units. When -- I may start with the Wienerberger Building Solutions business unit. Revenues are up by 10% to EUR 2.3 billion. This volume increase, revenue increase is mainly driven by additional volumes. We have around about plus 7% volume increase in the Wienerberger Building solution. And this is also driving, basically, the EBITDA. So the combination of high sales volume and high run rate of our production facilities that driving EBITDA, cost inflation, loss [ was ] rather moderate. We have seen some cost inflation for sure in packaging and in additives. On the other side, you know that energy, we have a very moderate cost structure in 2021. And this also made possible that we were able also to cover cost inflation and which finally led an EBITDA of EUR 477 million, last 15, compared to last year. Looking to the Wienerberger Piping Solutions business unit, this was the first time that we crossed the revenue above EUR 1 billion. We achieved a EUR 1.2 billion on revenues plus 25% in 2021. The year was, I would say, in this business unit, a very challenging and volatile one when we look to the raw material market as we heard already in the beginning. We had shortages when it's about the availability on plastic granulates. On the other side, we had strong price increases when it's about plastic granulates. And at the same time, we had a very strong demand in -- especially in the first half year. This demand was stabilizing in the second half of 2021. So that finally, we ended up with an EBITDA of EUR 128 million, where also the contribution of the acquired FloPlast and core plastic business is considered for 6 months. North America, the North American business almost doubled the EBITDA from 2020 to 2021. The main driver, as we mentioned already very often is the contribution and the operational development of our piping, U.S. piping business, which have shown exceptional profitability in 2021. In addition, in the beginning of the first -- fourth quarter, we closed the Meridian acquisition and laid, with this acquisition, an important base ground for future growth in the upcoming years. So all in all, a very successful year in North America when we look back on the financial year 2021. What does it mean revenue-wise? It was mentioned that revenue, organically, grew by plus 16%, and this plus 16% organic revenue growth is mainly driven by volume. And here, I mentioned it before that we had a strong volume growth here, which is around about half of the 16%. The rest is pricing. To be more clear, 7.5% is pricing and 0.5% is mix. And the pricing was needed also to cover the cost inflation because we have seen a cost inflation in 2021, which was around 8.5% in average during the year. So it was necessary also to have at least a price increase of plus/minus 7% to cover this cost inflation. Our Sales & Excellence program was contributing and according to expectations, maybe even overachieved our expectations because we reported that we expect around about EUR 40 million on EBITDA contribution in 2021. We slightly overachieved with 42.5%. And the main contributors in 2021 out of this program was a big [ blockchain ] for manufacturing excellence. You know that we invest a lot in automation and in efficiency enhancements. But also that we are investing in [ CommEx ] programs in innovation and new products. Also to keep our share of innovative products by at least 30% of our revenues. And this will also be the focus area in 2022 that we will strongly focus also via the [ Sales Ed ] program to keep innovation rates up of at least 30%. Energy was most probably an important pillar also to make this financial year a record year in 2021. We have a long lasting experience in forward buying energy and electricity and on gas. It basically protects us against our cost increases and also, it ensures price stability to our customers. We have now already covered around about 90% of this year's consumption. And this 90% is based on the production volumes. What we assume today for 2022, if we will increase production volume, it means also that we have to buy these additional production volumes or energy consumption on the spot market. And this will mean also keeping basically the cost structure. Why it is lower than lastly, communicated, I think, at the Capital Markets Day. You know that we closed Meridian Brick in the beginning of the fourth quarter. Meridian just started in fixing their energy costs. And therefore, we came back, I think, from 97% back to 89%. That's the reason why it is slightly lower than we have announced some weeks ago. Looking to our EBITDA performance, we have -- we show a very strong double-digit EBITDA increase in 2021 compared to 2020. What we would like to do is also that we move step by step away from our EBITDA like-for-like definition. It seems to rather complex and also difficult when we speak about year-on-year comparison. So we decided also, for the first time, to show an operational EBITDA. And this, you see on Slide 23 of the presentation that you see also what the definition is. And therefore, we used also, already, the operational EBITDA development. We added a job where basically, the organic growth based on EBITDA were coming from is also included. So there is an organic EBITDA growth of plus 20%. And yes, as you can imagine, this plus-20% is strongly driven by volume, by additional sales volumes and high run rates from our production facilities, but also a slight outperformance in price mix, which we're improving, basically, the organic growth and also the efficiency measures, basically, out of the fast forward program, they are -- and we had also some cost increases compared to 2020, where we still were receiving some of the subsidies -- take part subsidies from the government. Let me continue with our capital allocation, respectively, with our investments. What we did, because we invested a lot in 2021 and we have clear rules in place where we invest our money. We need a certain amount of money for keeping our plants up and running in true maintenance, and we stick to our EUR 120 million on maintenance CapEx even that we have seen also in the machinery parts and accessories there, a high cost inflation, but that we were sticking in a very disciplined way to the EUR 120 million. We already missed investing on the growth CapEx side, but also, from measures on the ESG, respectively, decarbonization, around about EUR 160 million. And we had a strong M&A cash out almost EUR 0.5 billion, basically for our companies, which we bought in the U.S. or in North America and the U.K. and Ireland. What does it mean for our net debt position based on this strong investments. Our net debt position slightly increased from midpoint from EUR 880 million up to EUR 1.1 billion. And comparing that with our leverage ratio, we see that we were able to keep the leverage ratio, which was in the beginning of the 1.6x to keep it stable, even considering the high cash on what we had for 8 more days and for gross CapEx. So -- by the end of the year, as they do, leverage ratio of 1.6% which also shows that the strong free cash flow generation of the year 2021. When it's about income statement balance sheet, cash flow statement about the primary statements, I think most of the KPIs was already mentioned. Therefore, I think what is important to mention is strong profit after tax, which is significantly above prior-year figures, which is above EUR 300 million. And I think what was already mentioned is a free cash flow above EUR 400 million. Let me summarize quickly the year 2021. What we have seen is a strong organic growth, meaning of -- plus 16%, as I mentioned before. We were outperforming GDP again in our core markets, ROCE with 20%, clearly above our internal goal of plus-10%. The leverage ratio we were able to confirm is 1.6x despite a strong M&A. Cash conversion rate, again, confirmed above 80%. And out of that -- of this strong set of figures, we are proposing a dividend, which is 25% higher than in 2020 of EUR 0.75 per share. And with that, Heimo, I would like to hand over.

Thank you, Gerhard. And ladies and gentlemen, let's have a look into '22. Again, obviously, the year started, politically speaking and geopolitically speaking, with a mess. We have instability all over the places where we look at. I just want to say at the beginning so there's no misunderstanding, we have no exposure to the Ukraine as Wienerberger and a very limited one to Russia with minus or a little shy of 1% of our turnover. So very low exposure to Russia. And I don't think that our Russian operations will be affected by any of this and would spill over into the European or other economies will be, we will see later. I do make a personal note here. I've never understood and I've never seen any of these political sanctions working in the history of mankind. So I'm not in favor of this, and it is always the wrong part of the society and the poor people and the people on the ground and not political leadership, but that's my personal opinion on it. When you look at this year, on the cost side, we will see rather substantial increases again on inflationary cost increases. We, as of the beginning of this year, we were working about 7% plus for the -- all of inflation coming into our business. I see for this -- from our perspective, now that this could eventually be even higher for the year as things are progressing. But as for the moment, we are seeing this 7% increases when it comes to inflation and cost increases for the business. Energy costs, as I say, from Gerhard's presentation, you have seen we bought a substantial path forward. But obviously, the part that we cannot cover, the other countries that have regulations that prohibit us to do this and other countries, obviously, where we were not able due to the Meridian acquisitions, for example. We are then exposed to the spot market. Interest rates, step-by-step will go up as well. This might have an impact on the business. We have not seen it yet, obviously. But for the moment, I'm pretty confident that the markets' new build will be rather stable for the year. The renovation will be slightly growing. The effect that might sort of tamper this growth is the skilled labor availability to install products. And on the infrastructure side, I see a more stable business as well. As I said, cost inflation about 7% for the Wienerberger book in 2020. But eventually also more, and that's why we need price increases. So to answer this question right at the beginning, between 6% and 8% are required to cover this inflationary cost increases. You have heard it from the presentation of Gerhard that we had around 8% last year. So it's in line with last year and this is going to be, again, a challenge for Wienerberger to bring it in the market. We are confident in doing so. But again, the 8% is required to cover costs. And if we need to go further, and we will do it in the second wave of price increases if we see it in the next couple of months that the inflation is high. Keep in mind also that we are running in our facilities with pretty high capacity utilization already. That means utilization rates in the range of 90% plus. That leaves us not so much room for further growth. We are working on debottlenecking and investing in this business. That's why we dedicate also a substantial amount of CapEx to it. But keep in mind also that inventory levels are historically low, and as Gerhard has pointed out, quarter 4 has been very strong. So it was running through nearly full speed until the end. And obviously, this year also, we have a good demand levels. So we cannot expect that from this perspective, we will have a major growth in the sense that we will satisfy the demand levels where we can. Some of our competitors have shut down during the winter months due to the high energy costs we are producing. But obviously, from a demand level, we can only satisfy a certain amount. So again, pricing 8% plus -- 6% to 8% plus. Volume will be up, but not in the range of what we have seen in the past because we have limiting factors, inventory and availability of products. Self-help, again, a strong contribution is expected this year with about EUR 45 million coming from the business. And this is more now coming from the commercial part, new products, innovation, system solutions and obviously, the pricing as such. Let's have a quick look on what we dedicate to the business in the sense of the capital allocation. EUR 135 million on maintenance CapEx, a little bit more than last year due to the increased base of industrial activity in the U.S. and in Europe, especially, discretionary CapEx that we allocate to the business this year is around EUR 160 million. This will be investments, as I said, to improve the business, reduce -- decarbonization again and obviously, debottlenecking while adding new products. Again, I want to stress in this context, if you look and track us, these are investments that have, on average, a 4-year payback. M&A contribution, the whole contribution from all the activities and M&A that we have done last year will be EUR 60 million, 6-0, for this year. And there you see, again, we obviously guided that we have on average, a 5-year payback after year 3 of integration. We are now in year 1 after the integration and already delivering EUR 60 million. So if you calculate, it should be EUR 90 million, and we're already at EUR 60 million. So you see how quickly we are moving right direction here as well as the performance is concerned. So this is on the M&A front. And obviously, we have one issue that I would like to address so there's no misunderstanding on the North American business. Very strong performance in piping last year, exceptionally strong, because we were able to increase the prices before raw material prices actually increase. And therefore, we see, not a headwind, but a onetime effect from last year, about USD 30 million. And therefore, we need to build this in the equation when we talk about the results and the expectations for this year. So this is not going to be repeated. That doesn't mean that we fall off a cliff or there's something wrong in the business, not at all. It was an exceptional contribution to the strong purchasing power that we've used and the lucky punch, if I may say so, that we had. I know that demand levels are strong. Keep in mind also that availability of raw material will be an issue in the U.S.. We see it already in the market. So to be able to produce the whole year and produce the right products will be the real issue in North America. So when I look at the whole guidance as such, we have EUR 750 million to EUR 770 million EBITDA that we guide for, for this year. That puts a little bit of sort of an idea into it where we want to be organically and on the M&A front. EUR 60 million coming from the M&A front and EUR 50 million to EUR 70 million, depending on the market and what we will see in the second half of the year because the first half, we have a pretty good visibility. So it means, again, a 10% organic growth rate for 2022, a strong message again that we are growing in the right direction. Now to finish, I would like to give you also a little bit of insight of what is coming next in a couple of years from Wienerberger and, I would say, look a little bit ahead, not only 1 year. Our vision is that we want to build Wienerberger on this solid industrial basis further; have -- maintain our 30% innovation rate when it comes to turnover; improve to about 25%, the system solution; and develop our business in this sense, because we see the shortage of labor that comes into the market in the next couple of years when we, as a company, need to provide the market with system solutions to make it easier to install and quick and affordable for the people to use our products. And we want to prepare the company in the way we further reduce carbon emissions with 40% till 2030. So this is our target, our clear target where we invest and where we reduce consumption of energy. All in all, we will guide this CapEx that we allocate to growth in ESG annually as we do this year, for example, with EUR 160 million. You see also that the payback rate, on average, are about 4 years. So again, a strong payback, a good payback, and these are the best projects that we can get, actually, within the company. And we target an organic growth rate, 2% above GDP. So you see again that there's a strong commitment of Wienerberger for a longer period of time, not for every year, but take a longer period of time. And you remember at the beginning of the presentation, I showed you the last decade where we had about 6% growth rate compared to 2% GDP that we will outgrow the market here again. Important to note is that, as I said earlier, the turning point of Wienerberger's development was in '21, where we clearly start to commit, obviously, substantial funds also to M&A and successful M&A where we buy companies at relatively low multiples and improve them even further. You see that we have a very good pipeline of potential deals out there that we will also realize this year. We will dedicate a certain amount to such M&A. We can't guide those because this is not in a calendar year that you make this. But you get an idea if you look at our performance over the last years that we dedicate, consequently, these amounts to this growth. And that we realize, on average, about a multiple of 5x post synergies, and as I said, in year 3. On the maintenance CapEx side, this is what we really need, and we need to dedicate this to the business, not only to maintain it but obviously, improve it slightly and keep it at the high industrial level that we have, EUR 135 million this year, and we will also guide. And obviously, this will develop a little bit. Because if we create more industrial base and grow, this will grow eventually also, and it will be in a very sort of manageable, in a dedicated way that we put the money into this business to keep the industrial base on this is high performance level and in order to ensure health and safety and decarbonization also and obviously, also the other targets that we have on the ESG front. Last but not least, we are committed to pay out a certain amount of the free cash flow to our shareholders, 20% to 40% dividend. Some of you will calculate it immediately for 2021. I just want to say 1 word on this. As I said at the beginning, we also repaid the hybrid, which was considered equity for -- on our balance sheet, and this obviously, together, forms a strong contribution to our investors that we had paid out last year. And obviously, therefore, the EUR 0.75 on the share is a very good dividend that we proposed for '21. And obviously, you will see our dividend going forward, increasing as the business performs well and increases also. So again, a clear set of rules and ways how we allocate the money to the business and for further growth of Wienerberger in the coming years. And if you look at the overall perspective, Wienerberger's situation today that I've shown you after 10 years of transformation will continue. So if I may say so in 2030, so the percentage rate should be around 40% in the new build. So envelope of the house again, a stronger footprint, more products into new build projects. That's our idea, so we bundled products. We have a very strong brand. Wienerberger is one of the most well-known brands in Central Eastern Europe and also in big parts of Western Europe. So we actually can shift through our route to market a lot more in the future and that's what we will do also with our digital approaches and the digital solutions. In the renovation business, we are growing. We have now about 29%, but we would like to go in the 30% or come closer to 40% of the turnover percentage point in renovation and infrastructure also, to build it with more solution-oriented businesses around our piping operations in water management and energy management, where you see these acquisitions that we have performed over the last couple of years. All in all, a company that is strongly serving 1 purpose, to make the living of us all better in order to have energy-efficient homes and achieve efficient renovation and a healthy and forward-looking infrastructure for water and for energy. That is Wienerberger. And I think I will close there, Daniel, and we will shift over to the M&A mode -- to the Q&A mode. Not to the M&A, that's where we're currently in this slide. Thank you very much for your attention.

Operator, we are ready to take your questions.

[Operator Instructions] First question is from the line of Brijesh Siya from HSBC.

I have 2 questions. So the first one is on the -- basically the last slide you have put in about the exposures. If I recollect, 2020, you had renovation of around 20% and that had jumped to 29% in 2021. And looking at the acquisitions, we did it. Meridian is family- a residential business and low-class [ ticket ] and the other one in U.K., is renovation weighted. But I mean, can you just explain why the significant vertical shift has come in there? And coming to 2030 number, your 55%, is it more to do with what you are currently doing? Or that will involve more acquisitions bring that number up from 29% to 35%? Second question is on the -- okay. My second question is on the electric melter, which you announced 2 weeks back that you have successfully tested one and that will certainly make your carbon footprint closer to your ambitious net 0 one. So just wanted to understand what's the economics of it. What's the CapEx and OpEx around it? Is the 40% carbon reduction target, which you do -- planning to do by 2030 includes a certain number of plants to be converted to electric melter by then? So if you have any numbers around it, if you can split it out a bit.

Thank you for the questions. The first one on renovation. Yes, we want to improve our current footprint, and that's why innovation and system solutions are so important. And you have here this organic growth. When it comes to the roof and the facade in particular. But on the other hand, we, as Wienerberger, foresee also acquisitions in this field, and it's in the piping and it's in the roofing segment, where we see the strongest potential for Wienerberger. I referred to the roofing one because obviously, here also, you have seen us with certain solutions and partnerships on the solar front and also the technical membrane front when it comes to flat roofing. And here, we think that we are entering a very strong growth market, which will certainly develop in the years to come. And when you talk about the facade, obviously, the thin-brick solutions in North America and Europe will help us to improve here, our performance in renovation as well. Don't underestimate also the renovation potential in our piping business with hot and cold in the in-house front and the water management around the house, where we brought, obviously, the activities in England and Ireland. This can be rolled out on the continent with small investments, but also within sort of an M&A, that we will perform there. So here, as I said, it's a mixture of both, because we are confident and see a good pipeline of potent projects. And as I said, Wienerberger strength on the commercial front, strong sales force, strong brands, strong relationship with the market and project know-how that we have, we can add on a couple of product that we see appropriate in our overall offering of systems and product solutions. On the electrical kiln front, that shows clearly how committed we are to new technology. For every product group in Wienerberger, we have solutions and the one that we have now put in place is the first one for thin brick in Belgium. It runs very well. We're very happy with it. It's a new kiln that we have put in with 0 emissions, 0 CO2 emissions. And therefore, obviously, a very interesting test case for us. When you refer to 2030 and the goal, yes, it comes essentially from energy consumption reduction, and this is by technology, obviously, in our existing plants and I don't neglect also the -- I expect that we will rebuild certain plants until then. And this will be then the so-called plants where we test new technology and then can roll it out through the whole group. But it will be part of the CapEx program that I have described, and this will be fully in line with our objectives that we have set.

And may I just ask, I mean, what's the kind of change between '20 and '21 in terms of renovation exposure? 2020 was 20% and 2021 is now 29%.

I don't know whether '20...

2012, I think.

'20 -- maybe it's a misunderstanding, because I think what you have to consider, that there's a significant share also in renovation, the facade business. And also basically, most probably when you refer to the '20, maybe you only looked at the roofing segment, on the share of the roofing segment, but you also have to consider the renovation share in infrastructure and the renovation share and the facade in the wall segment.

Okay. Fine, I guess we can take it offline, because Slide 7 now for CMD, 2020 CMD talks about a 20% renovation in the pie chart. So we can, anyway, take offline that one.

No problem. Will do, thank you.

Next question is from the line of Yves Bromehead from BNP Paribas Exane.

My first one is on the group medium-term growth potential and that's aside from the 2030, but more thinking maybe in a 3-year horizon. I think you've mentioned that you were running at around 90% utilization rate on your European Building Solutions business. I think, Heimo, you mentioned that you were going to look at debottlenecking. But in the face of it, you're not really adding a lot of incremental capacity through greenfield or even brownfield as far as I'm aware of, and maybe you can correct me on this. So I guess the question is, is your volume outlook for the next few years stable because of the supply constraint that you have internally? And looking to change that through higher growth CapEx? Or are you thinking about losing some [ ratchet ] market share to other substitute products? That's my first question. I'll let you answer that one before I go to the next one, if that's okay.

I can exclude the second or the third observation of yours that we lose, here, market share. Actually, on the contrary, if I look at market shares, we have gained momentum in the sort of inner market when you compare us to competitors of ours in if I say, the clay roof tile market, for example, or the clay brick market for facade or the clay block market. And even when I look in the broader scale, I've seen that the clay block market, for example, in a lot of our whole markets have -- has gained momentum in the 1 and 2 family houses because a lot of people have moved away from prefabrication into sort of longer-term sustainable solutions. You are referring to 1 thing that, obviously, debottlenecking and creating capacity. Keep in mind, if -- that we are living in a different world, because Wienerberger is changing actually dramatically its footprint also, when it comes to products. So our product segment and product offering is very different from 10 years ago, and therefore, we -- from an installation point of view, it is -- we need to debottleneck first and get the right products into the market. I talked about infield blocks, for example, where you need to have the installation to fill the stone wool in, for example. And these are things that we right now and try to move up in the product mix. So just creating capacity is not enough. And on the roofing side, for example, debottlenecking means also moving up the ladder when it comes to higher added volume -- added margin product or some things like this. So -- or shift patterns that we change. These are the most interesting parts that we currently do. And obviously, our volume estimations are such that we are positive. As I said, we see stable market. And I'm not saying that we are pessimistic or conservative or whatever, I think we are fully in line with the market expectations. And from a perspective of building new capacity, keep in mind also, if we were to decide to set a new operations up, it takes us about 3 to 4 years right now in Europe with all the permits and everything linked to it. So what we are doing is extending kilns or extending dryers on existing sites, so what you are referring to as brownfield development. And that's what you see in this EUR 160 million of, for example, investment.

Very clear. And my second question is also related a bit more medium term and on the M&A side. I think if you work out your pie chart of 2021 revenue splits versus 2030. And I think let's not go into details of what the revenue implication is. But just looking at your sort of CAGR plus 2% GDP to 2030. Clearly, it shows the renovation and infrastructure markets, so you expect them to grow at a much faster pace. And you've mentioned that those would be the M&A angle. I just wanted to challenge you on one thing is on the roofing side, albeit you're looking at new verticals. If we're looking at the ceramic tile industry, it's never looked as good as it is today, record high margin, it's great high-volume growth. You are a leader, but is there still space for you to do some M&A, especially in France, and in Southern Europe. I think there's quite a few assets here for sale. Could you look at them or would there be an antitrust issue?

No, we don't face antitrust issues in the markets where we, I would say, would see or would like to see further consolidation. That's why we have them on the agenda. In the markets where we are strong already, we are looking at extensions and growing organically. Keep in mind also that we look, not only at clary roof tiles, but accessories also, because it's, for us, to -- important to create more per roof, especially when it comes to innovation. That's a key element for growth. And I can also say today very calmly to you that the footprint industrially speaking and commercially speaking, it's more the Nordic part of Europe and not so much in the South. That's for the fragmentation of the industry and the structure of the industry. But to ease this argument in France is part for me, for the Nordic part of Europe and not the South, even if they touch the Mediterranean sea.

Sorry, did you say France is Northern Europe from you?

Northern, from our perspective, even if it touches the Mediterranean sea if say so.

Next question is from the line of Yassine Touahri from On Field Investment Research.

My first question would be on pricing in 2022. It seems that your clay-building material competitor that have not hedged their guys and increased their bill? Might have to increase the prices by much more than 6% to 8% to protect their margins. The question is could you consider increasing prices in clay brick and tiles as much as your competitors that are not hedged? Or would you rather consider giving the benefit of your cautious hedging policy to your clients?

To answer your question, first of all, the most of our competitors are 1 -- family businesses with 1 or 2 sites. They have a completely different pricing policy already in the past and are obviously, confronted to this situation in a way where they will have to cover their costs. They not looking as you and me to margins, but more to cost coverage. So if they increase their prices, they will sort of first of all, try to cover their costs, as you correctly point out. And secondly, from our perspective, they've also been, in the past, lower than Wienerberger when it comes to pricing. So there has been always a differential in pricing, be it in certain products, 10% or even above 10% in certain areas of the business. So this is we -- not that we've neglected but obviously, there's a completely different way how tech pricing and margin business. So it's -- they are not so much focused on margins. They are more focused on cost coverage right now.

Is it fair to assume that the recent developments in gas and LPG prices mean that they will have to increase prices much more in 2022 than in 2021 and that is -- could be positive for your pricing power?

The assumption that is right that they have to increase more, but they did already in 2001. Obviously, a lot of them because they were already confronted to these price hikes. And they will have to do it this year as well, yes. And when I'm saying this, pricing power with Wienerberger is very strong because you have seen it last year how we implemented it and how we moved the market as the leader, and we do it this year as well. As I said, clearly, these companies acting locally have a different agenda. It doesn't mean that they are disruptive, but they need to follow their way as well, and they will follow us and therefore, the pricing of the book is certainly going to be strong this year.

And a second question is, could you give a little bit more color on the EUR 30 million headwind that you're expecting piping in North America. Does it mean that you're expecting pricing to be a little bit weaker than the rest of the group because you already implemented price increase in 2021? Or does it mean that you expect the costs to be higher than the rest of the group because of PVC prices?

So basically, what we expect is more stabilizing price on the PVC side, what we see is still that the PVC input prices, raw material prices are still in the U.S. And what we did in 2021 was a very proactive approach that we increased, basically, the prices front -- that were hit by the cost increase of the raw material. And if you consider that prices, PVC prices will stabilize, basically, that means also that you cannot realize an additional margin, how we did, basically, in 2021. And that's reason why we think that we cannot repeat this one-off like we did in 2021. And therefore, we have considered it as a EUR 30 million one-off effect in our guidance '22.

Is it fair to assume that you're really -- you expect pricing to be lower than in '21, because you will not be able to increase prices? Or do you expect margin pressure? Or do you expect just to -- or do you expect -- would you try to maintain the margin in North America?

We will try to maintain the margin, but we will not be able to increase like we did in the last year that we were always, basically, increase prices to the market earlier, like, basically, we were hit by the cost increase from the supplier. And this will not be possible if the input prices from PVC will stabilize. So there will be a kind of a marching which we will keep, but it will not be possible that we earn an additional margin out of this proactive margin approach.

Next question is from the line of Cedar Ekblom from Morgan Stanley.

Two questions from me, gentlemen. The first one is on M&A. Can you give us a little bit more color on your M&A funnel at the moment? How many assets are sitting in due diligence phase? How many -- you've may be signed an NDA worth, with just to get a feeling for how I could view M&A into 2022 and beyond? And it would be helpful if you could maybe give us some sort of parameters for M&A as a percentage sales in terms of :How to think about that going forward, considering it's now a core part of the strategy? And then the second question's just briefly on the guidance. When I look at your guidance slide, you're starting with a like-for-like EBITDA as your basis for the 2022 guide, but you're guiding to a reported EBITDA or at least that's my understanding. And so if I look at that number and I use the same basis for both 2021 and 2022, so both reported, it's effectively implying limited organic growth, and that doesn't seem to be the message that you're giving. So I just wanted to confirm what that chart on Page 37 actually shows, because it's not entirely clear. That'd be helpful.

Thank you Cedar. I will leave the question number 3 to Gerhard and focus on the first 2 ones. On average, if I -- and I'm not taking the year '22 right now. But if I compare my experience with Wienerberger and what we have done so far, on average, we have sort of a projects, about 10 projects that we are running simultaneously. That means that a very small ones, midsized ones and sort of bigger ones for -- from our perspective. So yes, we are engaging with those people. Either we are participating in processes or we're negotiating with the families or owners of such businesses. And the processes might last anything from 8 weeks to 2 years or 3 years, because that's how long it might take for a family to finally decide to step out of the business. So yes, there is a good pipeline, as I said, on average 10, I would say, but there can be more also and some go away. But if I say 10, they are fairly serious and we are focusing on those and much more, obviously, that are floating around. But this is my answer to your first question. So I hope it gives you a little bit color or it gives you a little bit of more meat to the bone, if I may say so. And percentage of sales, if you bear with me, and I would say, I wouldn't like to give you a guidance here because it's difficult for me to evaluate. And I think from a perspective of what we spend, probably, and what we have available. I think -- as you have seen, in some years, it might be a little more. Last year, we had about EUR 0.5 billion that we dedicated to the M&A side. But anything between EUR 100 million and EUR 300 million or EUR 400 million is achievable for Wienerberger in this stage. So I think that's where you situate yourself at this stage. It doesn't mean that we don't do a bigger deal if it comes along and make sense, but that's what we sort of work on at this basis.

Gerhard, Cedar, and it's about the EBITDA bridge. What we wanted, basically, to present is that we show in the bridge, the full EBITDA contribution from M&A. The EUR 60 million, what you see, will be basically the M&A contribution, the full M&A contribution of 2022. That we had already, in 2021, an M&A contribution of around about EUR 20 million. But we consider, basically, our idea of how to start with EUR 670 million to add the full EBITDA contribution of EUR 60 million and -- to end up with EUR 750 million to EUR 770 million. And maybe what was not clear enough, we don't see this EUR 750 million to EUR 770 million as a reported EBITDA. We see it wasn't operating EBITDA. So meaning, excluding one-offs in the same -- sale of assets, restructuring costs. So we see this as an operating EBITDA, the EUR 750 million to EUR 770 million. And that's why, basically, we decided to show the bridge as it is designed.

Okay. That's fine. But if I look at the slide, what is this, Slide 23, your operating EBITDA for 2021 shows that EUR 694 million. So just to point this, as we don't have the same basis here. So the guidance is very confusing. And it implies no organic growth, but that doesn't seem to be the message that you're giving on the call anyway.

I think the organic growth is not touched by this presentation. When we start with EUR 694 million, you have then to deduct the difference from the M&A because it is then not the EUR 60 million. It won't be, then, EUR 60 million minus the EUR 20 million. But this was the reason, as I said in the beginning, what we try to show is the full M&A contribution or the full EBITDA contribution out of M&A. And this will be in the year 2022, EUR 60 million. The organic growth is not touched by that. Maybe we can, in a separate session, to speak about it to clarify, to make sure that there is no misunderstanding.

Next call is from the line of Markus Remis from Raiffeisen Bank International.

One question and also relates to this guidance issue. Just to be clear, so it's EUR 40 million, roughly EUR 40 million incremental contribution in 2022 -- '20 as we realized in '21. That's the message, correct?

Markus, that's from -- coming from M&A, that's what you are saying?

Yes. Yes.

Only M&A.

Only M&A.

That's correct.

We realized EUR 90 million already and EUR 40 million is incremental in...

Spot on. Spot on, Markus. Spot on. Yes.

Okay. Got it. And I appreciate the openness on the price cost spread topic. Just to clarify on the price increases, is that already everything implemented so come to spillover effects from last year and then coming on price increases you've implemented early or starting into the year? Or does it kind of assume further price increases moving forward into the year?

I think when -- from this perspective, we started the year, meaning in January with the assumption of 5% to 7% inflationary cost increases and then we set our targets for the price increases. So if I say 7% to 8% in certain geographies, we were more to the 6% and to the 8% of price increases. And I would say from our perspective today, end of February, beginning of March, that in some areas, we will need a second price increase to cover the inflation and cost increases. Yes.

Okay. Right. Then on the topic of shareholder returns, would buybacks be a topic at current levels for you?

When I -- that's why I inserted the chart on capital allocation, I think. If you look at the interesting projects that we have when we talk about 4 years payback, 5 years payback. And I think from a growth perspective, Wienerberger is in a position to allocate its money now at this stage to further develop the company and not just so much think at current share prices. And I obviously understand, EUR 2 more or less is important for everybody and even for me. But I would say it's better to invest right now in the business and grow the business than to dedicate too much resources in buybacks.

All right. Okay. Last question related to the recent spike in oil price. I mean, which extent is that reflected in the cost inflation of up to 7% that you've flagged for this year, so we hovering now close to $100 per barrel. Does that entail an upside risk to the cost inflation?

Yes. Well, I think this is exactly the point where we were sort of hesitant and when I say second wave of price increases, especially those countries where we don't -- we come, buy forward. You know them from Eastern Europe, it's Romania, Bulgaria, Serbia, where we have to obviously then think of a second wave of price increases because, obviously, gas is going up. Yes. You're right.

Next question is from Ami Galla from Citi.

A couple of questions from me. My first question was just a clarification on the EUR 30 million of the one-off gains that you flagged. Is it right to understand that, that's mainly the delta between price and cost? And there is no element of the sort of supply chain disruption that the industry has seen and you were better able to support demand in the market last year? And related to that, the question on shortage of plastic granulates, do you think that still is going to be -- as it exists in the market today, is it still a relative advantage that you have versus competitors because you are better positioned in this in your supply chain? My second question really isn't on CapEx. As I think about your carbon reduction, carbon CO2 reduction targets for 2023 and even beyond to 2030, should we expect the level of ESG and special CapEx to remain relatively high over these years? I know in 2020 Capital Markets Day, you'd given us some line of sight to 2023, but should we kind of think about it even moving forward to towards 2030 a relatively high level of CapEx? And the third question I have is really a clarification. Were there any government custody gains in 2021 number?

The last one I can answer with a clear no. So there were no subsidy issues involved here. On the plastic granulate side, I would say, yes, we might see this year some shortages. I think that's certainly true for the North American business and to a certain extent, also in Europe. You are absolutely right. We managed the supply chain well in Europe and continue to do so as this is long-term partner of our suppliers, and we are obviously looking for alternative routes as well. And we are certainly -- when I compare ourselves to other competitors, well-positioned to do so. Keep in mind that our exposure in the North America is smaller, because we have 1 big plant and therefore, from a supply chain, it's a little bit more difficult than in Europe. So that's why I'm saying the exposure here to potential sort of hiccups in the supply is bigger in the U.S. than in Europe. Your question relating to the EUR 30 million of gains is price, yes? Because as Gerhard had explained it, we were very good in putting price increases early in and then the cost followed afterwards. And as he explained, this will not be the case this year, and that's why we can't capture this additional sort of margin that we had due to our very good or proactive pricing policy. That's a onetime effect. It is a lot of money. I understand that, but it's a one-in-a-lifetime opportunity, and the American management did very well on this. But as I said, this is a onetime effect.

I just have one last follow-up of -- one I forgot to ask is just on the tax rate. Is there any changes to the sort of underlying tax rate in the business after the Meridian Brick acquisition?

The tax rate, you ask? No, I would not say -- you have seen most probably, we have this year's round about again, an effective tax rate of 1-7, 17%. The tax rate in 2020 was extraordinarily high due to some one-offs, 2019 was also around about 17% to 18%. So you can collate with an effective tax rate for the group based on the tax loss carryforwards and the total structure, what we have of round about plus minus 20% on the long run.

Your last question was relating to CapEx and how we structure CapEx. I think, from my perspective, you see, we will guide this and this is a discretionary one. And to give you now numbers for the next 5, 6 years would be not the right way forward. But as I said, it's paybacks when you look at them with 4x, very strong ones, and we might spend 1 year a little more and 1 year a little less. But I think when you look at, right now, where we debottleneck a lot and where we improve decarbonization a lot, EUR 160 million is probably an amount that one could work with.

Next question is from the line of Tobias Woerner from Stifel Europe.

Three questions, if I may, from my side. In terms of managing cost inflation, when we look at the various components, can you give us a little bit more sense, what you do in terms of forward buying? In other words, excluding energy for the time being, or gas for the time being, do -- are you, at the moment, extending your normal requirements for input materials in plastics and/or other areas or even services where you strike prices or contracts for extended periods, longer levels than you would have otherwise done? The second question, just very quickly, the breakdown of the EUR 20 million M&A impact in 2021 in terms of FloPlast and Meridian, what each part contributed? That would be helpful. And then just lastly, M&A, I mean, 1 of your peers in the building material space is actually looking actively at building a large position in Spain. Clearly, the capacity utilization issue wouldn't be an issue in that country, i.e., a runway for growth with the years and long, and the same is true, in a way, for Italy. Is that not something which could be on the cards for you given the fact that you have no exposure to Spain and limited exposure to Italy?

The last question on potential M&A. I think, we find from our humble perspective, Wienerberger's perspective, that we have a very interesting potential to grow in the markets that we are strong in. And going into a market like Spain, where we have no presence, where we have no expertise and to build up something will take years, and therefore, it's better allocated the capital allocation in areas where we know the market and can easily grab the potential for further growth. So this is one thing. The structure of the market and the fragmentation is obviously one where we always shy away from these Southern European markets. Keep in mind that, for example, we closed and sold off then our activity in Spain -- in Greece also on the piping segment, because over years, it was a single-digit margin and not really improving. Payment delays, they are long, and we have to finance, basically, our customers. All things that are difficult to handle for us. Italy, as again, you need to lean more than just 2 regions, North and South. It's the middle also and part of the north that are better than the others. But again, I think from an overall perspective, some potential interesting issues are there, but it's not that we would like to improve or increase our exposure to these markets now with big numbers because, we think, here again, the consolidation needs still to happen and capital allocation is not our priority to Italy. I hand over a little bit to Gerhard for the rest.

Maybe, if I may start about how the contribution from M&A looks like. And you can think about half and half, whereby I would say, you can think that the contribution from the U.K. Ireland business is slightly higher than from the U.S. business. This hopefully gives you some indication how our discipline comes together. The last one is about raw materials. Hopefully, I understood correctly your question. It's -- what we do is at the moment, when we work with the form of buying, we focus really only on energy, on electricity, on the gas. We check many times if we find the right tools and instruments for plastic granulates. But there, we see simply that there are lots of products available where we could go for a kind of a forward-buying hedging strategy. We are thinking more for a possible physical hedging for -- in certain areas. But for that, still raw material prices at the moment are much too volatile to even think about the physical hedging on plastic granulates. So for that moment, we focus on gas and electricity when it's about forward buying instruments.

[Operator Instructions] Next question is from the line of Gregor Kuglitsch from UBS.

So a couple of questions. Maybe first, the strategic one. And I think you've kind of answered it earlier with the size of deals and things like that. But I guess, from your perspective, is there anything in the portfolio product line that you think is particularly missing? And then secondly, I think you kind of said perhaps, but can you just maybe give us some clarity around your thinking around larger deals and thinking something more transformational or whether that's really not on the agenda? Maybe a second question which is detailed one. Could you just give us the incremental revenues to that EUR 40 million extra EBITDA, just roughly so we can work out the margin impact? I appreciate there were some numbers before. It would just be helpful as a reminder. Then third question, just coming back on quarter 4 trading. Maybe my math is wrong, but I think you had north of 20% organic growth top line, which is, obviously, extraordinarily high. The comp was not particularly tough. Can you just dig into that a little bit? I think you talked about prebuying and -- but just maybe give us some more feeling what happened there. So those would be my 3 questions.

Sure. Let me start with the strategic ones. I appreciate it and obviously, from a Wienerberger perspective, nothing is missing right now. We can always, as I said, add things and products and solutions that come with our products to the construction site. And that's, I think, the extra situation we are in from Wienerberger's perspective and the potential because we can add-on products and solutions to our existing ones being in typing, being in roofing, being also in facade or wall. So it's not a must immediately. It's a huge potential that we have here. And that's why I'm saying I'm confident about the potential for growth in the future. I will build steadily our presence here, if it's in accessories, if it's an insulation, if it's in render. There's a lot of things, too, that you can add on to our existing business in the different fields and make it solution-oriented. And obviously, as I said, create more turnover by projects and obviously, bring our sales and admin costs down on per unit sold. So this is, I think, the way forward, how we want to see it. On the deal structure, and you were referring to transformational deals. I think one needs to be very careful on these days. Wienerberger has a strong set of values and how we do business, how we are perceived by the clients and the customers. Therefore, a potential deal is also looked at, not only from a perspective for the financial and strategic and ESG, but also from a perspective of does it fit to our culture? Does it fit how we act in the market and our route to market. So this very important. It's not about making a huge deal and create a momentum here rather quickly, but does it fit to our strategy in developing the company further. If obviously, there are some midsized or bigger-sized potential deals out there that fits nicely, comes at the right price, as I said, we will look carefully in order to create additional value for our shareholders. But from the momentum's perspective, I think with this mid- to smaller-size deals, I think we have a huge potential for growth in the next coming years. So this is on the M&A front. I will probably hand over, a little bit, to Gerhard for the rest.

On the revenue side, what we basically expect there, what I have, basically, at the moment, that hangs is the revenue contribution in total in 2022 will be around concerning M&A between, let's say, EUR 300 million to EUR 350 million. What exactly will be the contribution, only for the EUR 40 million, which is incremental EBITDA contribution in '22, we have to come back to you via Investor Relations afterwards.

Okay. Well, you had EUR 100 million last year, so maybe we can deduct that?

This EUR 100 million, I think we had EUR 120 million to EUR 150 million, so I guess it would be somewhere EUR 200 million incremental, but let us please check.

I will get back to you on this.

Next question is from the line of Lush Mahendrarajah of Berenberg.

The first is onto the U.K. capacity, really. I know both of your competitors are adding capacity this year and then next year. Is that a risk to the imports you're currently bringing in? And then if it is, I guess, can that capacity be used to sort of serve the European market? Or are there any reasons why those bricks can't be sold in Europe for their esthetic reasons, for example? And then question was just around the solutions part business, 15% currently, targeting 25%. Can you just help give a few examples of what you mean by solutions and what you're doing there and whether there's additional scope to get that 25%?

Sure. I'll give you a couple of sort of examples for the solution part. We invested in a company in Belgium for prefabricated wall systems, for example, where we see a potential for further growth and this is exactly in the sense of the solutions. We have -- in the part of water management, also putting together recently acquired companies in the Netherlands and interact, for example, with our piping operations and building pumping stations in Finland. Where we obviously have the whole package now and not just the pipes. So these are solutions, and that's what we would like to drive forwards. We have it on the roof. We have it on the facade, as I explained in the piping and also then on the wall segments. So these are -- a lot of initiatives that we have throughout the group where we combine different products and solutions and sell it then as a system. So these are the 2 things. The first question that you had were was on the U.K. and I'm sorry, acoustically, I couldn't grab the first part of your question. It was linked to the sale of products that we ship in from the continent to the U.K., wasn't it?

Yes. And if that will get displaced by new domestic capacity in the U.K. and then whether you -- if it does get displaced, can you sell those bricks into Europe?

It could be an advantage that I'm more than 20 years, it's more than 25 actually in the business. And the U.K. colleagues have always said they can replicate these bricks over this period of time and they never could. And this momentum is building, and we have, obviously, completely different aspects and colors and shapes and bodies of these that we bring in. So I haven't seen a major change. And actually on contrary, we have built momentum in getting more bricks in. So I'm not frightened about the capacity in the U.K. that has been essentially built by our competitors. And -- but if it were, we could easily sell them on the continent as well. So there's no worries on this the supply chain.

Excuse me, there are no further questions at this time. I would like to hand back to Daniel Merl for any closing comments. Please go ahead.

Thank you, operator. And ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much for dialing in today. The next conference call, as a short reminder, will be on the 12th of May for our Q1 2022 results. And our annual report 2021 will be available for download on the 28th March on our website. For today, I can only wish you a nice rest of the afternoon. Thanks again for dialing in today. Stay healthy, and goodbye.

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes the Wienerberger conference call. Thank you for joining, and have a pleasant day. Goodbye.