Xeros Technology Group plc (XSG) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the Xeros Technology Group plc investor presentation. Throughout this recorded presentation, investors will be in listen-only mode. [Operator Instructions]. And before we begin, as usual, we would like to submit the following poll. And if you could give that your kind attention, I'm sure the company would be most grateful. And I would now like to hand you over to the team from Xeros Technology Group plc, Klaas. Good afternoon sir.

Thank you, Jake, for the introduction. Yes, welcome, everyone. For those of you who don't know me, I'm Klaas de Boer, Chairman of Xeros Technology Group plc. And with me today are Neil Austin, CEO; and Alex Tristram, CFO, who will do by far most of the talking. Today is our annual results meeting. But to be honest, the annual results are more or less a nonevent, we had reviewed from earlier in the year and the real excitement of the company lies ahead of us. So most of the time will be spent on trading update with you. I'm very pleased to announce that all 4 of our technology areas, product areas are commercial this year, Domestic Laundry, Commercial Laundry, Filtration and Finish. It's been a heavy lift for the team to get to this point, particularly as you're aware, we've been continuously taking cost out of the business. So with a reduced team, a heavy lift, very proud of what they have achieved and very much looking forward to the future. With that, I think I'll hand it over to Neil to take us through the trading update and to Alex as well, but Neil will kick it off.

Thank you for those very kind words, Klaas. Yes, I mean, just to kind of pick up on what Klaas has said, so yes, it is the annual results presentation. That's what Alex and I have been talking to everyone about this week. But in reality, what everybody wants to hear about from Xeros is, okay, great, guys, but what about commercialization. So that's what we'll spend the majority of time talking about today, which hopefully will be of most interest to you. As I always say, during these wider kind of investor meet presentations, we will include a little bit more material for those that are less familiar with the story, but I will probably skip through them quite quickly. The presentation material is there available to you, if you want to read at your leisure. And equally, we are always very happy to take any questions off-line as well. So okay, without kind of further ado, I'll get started. So just to kind of give some of those kind of broader conversation pieces about who or what are Xeros. We kind of exist in the world of garments. So very text kind of heavy slide, but I think the key point we're making on that is that the fashion industry is actually very highly responsible for a huge amount of waste, a huge amount of CO2 emissions, and is very much in need of innovation. So the manufacturer of garments and, indeed, even the laundering of garments thereafter is a significant issue. It's one which consumers are aware of. It's one that indeed governments are legislating towards as well. And then this is where Xeros really comes into its own. So we are developing technology, which is about addressing those environmental impacts, but it's also about bringing efficiencies, which are actually bringing in quite significant cost savings as well. So I mean, if we kind of keep going along on those things, the areas that we are really targeting have been those generated by Fast Fashion. So again, everybody has probably seen this too many times, but it is really -- it's key to why the world needs of the technology we're bringing. Fast Fashion is responsible for the mass consumption of clothes that we now live nowadays, 60% more, than 15 years ago. And unfortunately, the majority of it going into landfill. So probably too many clothes, and I think it's probably fair to say not very well made, poor fabric clothes being produced, which are being thrown away. The second piece is that what doesn't help us is that the laundry industry as well has really struggled to find a way to innovate more broadly. So people obviously fundamentally want to be able to clean their clothes. That's the whole purpose behind a washing machine. And the industry has struggled really to be able to do that effectively without unfortunately damaging the garments as well. As we always point out, clothes do not really like to be exposed to high temperatures to chemicals and in some cases, water as well. So the innovation that we're bringing is very much about breaking that link. So how can we enable people to be able to buy clothes in a more sustainable way that are produced in a more sustainable way and equally to be able to clean those clothes as well in a way that is not done damaging them at the same time. So this is why we introduced our key -- our core technology, which is XOrbs. And we very much see it as what we're now calling The Future of Laundry, the tagline, which I think best encapsulates what we're doing. It was actually a throw away phrase from one of our customers, which we thought we will have that as well. So we introduced our XOrbs, which are tiny polymer beads. They are an additional medium to go into those processes, which have large rotating drums, using a lot of water, a lot of energy and a lot of chemicals or detergents, and we're actually managing to significantly reduce those whilst at the same time, actually giving you a much better kind of garment life view as well. So some of the stats you can see. So to talk more pertinently about the commercialization. As I said, I think that's what everybody wants to hear about. So the 3 industries that we play in, which I just kind of alluded to, with our core XOrbs technology are Domestic Laundries, it's washing machines that you and I would have in our homes. Commercial Laundry, which is the same technology, albeit housed in a much larger kind of format, able to process more clothes and garment manufacturing and specifically what we call the final finish stage of that garment manufacturer, which again is going through a very effectively an extremely large washing machine. And the first area, the first product type that we're focusing on in that regard is Denim processing as well. So first one, Domestic Laundry, which we talked about. So this image really, I think, best sums up what we're bringing and what's getting the washing machine industry very excited. It doesn't happen very often, but we do genuinely feel as though we're reaching that. This is an image, which many of you will have seen before, but I think it tells the story of why XOrbs are so powerful. On the left is what happens to a woolen jumper after literally just one wash, shrinkage, pillage, loss of shade, loss of color. And on the right-hand side is what happens when you introduce our magic ingredient, which is XOrbs. So much, much closer, in some cases, pretty much exactly the same as the garment was when first bought new. So in terms of updates, what have we been doing? Again, a number of you will know very well that our most advanced current licensee is India's #1 company called IFB. And we have been in a long process with them to develop a domestic washing machine, which will have that Xeros Technology included within it. The very good news, which I'm able to share with you today and have been doing this week is that we have moved them on from what we call the development phase of our process, 100% into the commercialization phase. So they are completely no longer in need of Xeros technical support. And actually, all of the work that we now do is on a marketing and a commercial perspective. There's 2 key pieces of evidence that people -- that we want to see that I think everybody else wants to see. The first is, you can see a little bit of a snapshot of it in the middle of the image there, which is the creation of a marketing, a go-to-market story, a marketing launch. And here's an introduction of some of that collateral. The reason why we're previewing that with you today is because it very nicely highlights the fact that whilst this is clearly an IFB washing machine, which we brought to the consumer, it's also going to be very clearly powered by using the Xeros Technology. It's a very important part of what we're trying to do about extracting maximum value and maximum awareness of the fact that Xeros is the technology. And so Xeros will feature, XOrbs will feature in serigraphy actually on the washing machine itself. We will give them certification marks as well to demonstrate it's using core Xeros Technology, and they will be obliged to use the Xeros Technology videos and [ assets ] as well. So very exciting for that to be very much underway. Probably more exciting, as I say, probably more exciting for Alex than it is for me, is the fact that we've also got a commercial relationship well and truly underway as evidenced by the fact that we've now been in receipt orders for XOrbs. We will have probably shared with a number of you in the past that we tried to simplify the commercial relationship that we have for all of our customers on the Domestic Care Technology. So whilst we do still charge for the use of the Xeros Technology certification marks, as we call it, which is the sub-branding and we're actually trying to simplify it by saying the majority of the fees, if you like, to use the Xeros Technology are covered by the use of the XOrbs supply that we make. We control the supply of XOrbs and that's how we make sure that, obviously, the technology is being used in the right way. And it's also how we -- from the company as well. So as I said, great news is that IFB have now placed those initial orders with us without getting too specific to give you an idea, this is 6 figures in terms of cash for us in terms of U.S. dollars. And actually, probably more importantly, this is enough for thousands of machines. So a very clear indication that IFB are getting ready to ramp up and start production of this device, which as we said, since last year is due for launch this year. So this is just the beginning, but we have now moved into that final phase effectively for Xeros and IFB on the domestic platform and very, very pleasing for us. Beyond IFB, which we're very pleased about, we've also, as I think we've talked about in the past, been in some really exciting conversations with some of the world's largest domestic washing machine manufacturers. We characterize them as effectively the big 10. So whilst there are hundreds, in some cases, thousands of various washing machine brands, the reality is that these are consolidated into 10 holding global groups. We talked before about the fact that we're in conversations with a number of these guys. We were very pleased to announce in a trading update in January that actually we've added another to that roster. Based in Europe, they are, again, a global brand, one of big 10. And those guys so keen to start working with us where they've actually agreed to pay for this initial kind of process. We, with the 3 processes currently underway, are quite tight in terms of our engineering resource. But because this company were so keen to start to work with us, they're happy to pay for that first stage. So a real -- again, a real show of intent, and I think indicative of the fact that we're seeing and feeling that we're seeing and feeling, which is that this industry, the washing machine industry, is very much coming closer to us in terms of understanding that what people really want now a days is yes, energy and water efficiency in their washing processes, but they want to be able to break that link between clean and effectively and making sure that they can look after their clothes as well. So now have 4 of the world's top 10 washing machine groups in that process with us. To give you a sense, that is in terms of the number of units that we sell about 30 million units per annum. So pretty sizable players and exactly the people that we want to be talking to. So the plan for the team is very much to progress within those, and we're expecting further news in that space in the forthcoming months. So the other side of the laundry piece is the Commercial Laundry as well. So Alex, if I can just hand it over to you to give us an update on what's happening there.

Thanks, Neil. So yes, just as Neil mentioned, the focus of the business has very much been on the domestic side of things and the filtration side of things, which we'll cover slightly later. But the Commercial Laundry industry has always been important to us. It's kind of the bedrock of the Xeros Technology and we've made some progress in that area as well. So IFB, our Indian partners, are active in their Commercial Laundry space. So they have been ordering XOrbs and selling machines this year, which is great to see. But alongside that, we've been working with them on case studies and outreach processes to make sure that we're really showcasing the benefits of our technology to some of the world's biggest hotel groups. So IFB have been working with some of India's largest hotel groups, and we have got a case study in place at Marriott Heathrow, which is really useful for both of us and IFB to be able to show the benefits in a real-world scenario in a place that people can get to really. But another thing that helps us with us is to showcase the benefits of the technology in a real-world environment, and that helps us on the domestic side as well because it just proves that this is technology that people are using, that people are really seeing the benefits of and that works in the real world. So it's great progress to make on that front. We have a long-standing partner in France, a company called Georges, who use our technology across their sustainable laundries. They have blue-chip clients that are incredibly happy with the work that they're doing with the Xeros Technology. So Air France, SNCF and EDF have been long-standing partners and they've added contracts with Renault and some other workwear and fiber guys across France. So they're going to have about -- probably about 30 machines by the end of the year, which is a real showcase of our technology, and they are a big supporter of us. So there has been progress there even if it's probably a secondary priority for the business as we focus on those global opportunities that Neil mentioned earlier on.

Excellent, thank you Alex. So then just kind of move on to the kind of the other, as Alex kind of focus area that we've had first has been very much in relationships with domestic laundry suppliers. And the second one has been the garment manufacturing side of the business. So again, a number of you will be familiar with this. This is the denim processing side of the business, additional XOrbs to offer some of those and really quite significant savings that we're calling out at the top of the slide. The situation on that is the most recent kind of key partner that we have, licensee that we have for that, which is a company called Yilmak Makina based in Turkey. They launched the product in earnest in a significant trade show last year. And very good feedback, a quite significant level of interest from garment manufacturers that the guys that actually process the Denim for them to supply on to retail. Those guys get a very clear indication, which is the biggest problem they have within their current processes is the use of pumice. So pumice is this finite resource literally harvested off the ocean floor. It's a very inefficient process to create this literally stonewash jean. And the industry is very keen to find ways to get that same look and feel, which is obviously important to the industry and to the consumers and without using pumice. So I guess, ourselves and Yilmak were kind of set this challenge, which is can you generate effectively in a non-pumice and XOrbs cycle, which gives the same kind of savings in terms of energy and water that we're aiming to get, but actually completely replaces the pumice and operates in the same time. A challenge, I think it's fair to say because the pumice cycles are generally quite short and the XOrbs generally need a bit of time to be able to be harvested back into the curtailment area. But the very good news that I'm able to share is that we have -- we've met that brief and a lot of credit to the Xeros engineers and indeed the Yilmak team. And we now have a cycle developed, which is hitting the brief, hitting the requirements of those big garment manufacturers. Similar to the IFB domestic situation, we're now in a place where we're effectively saying that the development side of that relationship with Yilmak is completely closed off and we've now moved into full commercialization. And again, similar to IFB that's very clearly evidenced by the fact that we have received our first XOrbs orders from them as well. So to remind the revenue model for Xeros on the denim, on the garment manufacturing side of it is, yes, we do get royalties on the sales of machines, but we also get the revenue based on controlling the supply of XOrbs. So really significant step, a really significant milestone to have reached and we've always spoken about the level of interest that we have seen when we previewed technology to the ultimate commercial customers. I guess that's the consumers, but it's the garment retailers, it's the garment brands, those guys that you will have heard of operating in the U.K. and beyond, very keen to be able to get their hands on the technology, but we needed to have that manufacturing basis established with Yilmak now 100% meeting the brief of what that manufacturing hub, the likes of Bangladesh, Pakistan and so on have requested of it, we're very much good to go and have already identified a number of initial customers who will take the machinery. And once that's in place in the coming months, we'll be able to link them up with those garment brands and garment retailers that expressed a very strong interest to be able to get their hands on the technology. So really quite significant development for us, which we're very pleased with. And then to move on to microfiber filtration. So this is the non-XOrbs technology that we've got. So just to quickly skim over the headlines on this. Why do we need this product? Everybody has heard of microfibers, microplastic pollution. People maybe don't appreciate the fact that actually the significant amount of that comes from the laundering of clothes. And it's really because they're so agitated, they're releasing, shedding these kind of microfibers all the way through that process. We've done this for a number of years. Indeed, the industry has known this for a number of years. I'm very pleased to be able to say that we took the decision, a timely decision, to come up with a solution for this, which is very easily applicable into a preexisting or in new washing machine scenario. And that's what we call our XF3, which is the external microfiber filtration unit, can be rigged up to any washing machine that has the highest third-party verified capture rate and can be positioned anywhere in relation to that machine as well. We made the decision to partner in a kind of strategic partnership with a company called Donlim Xinbao, so one of the world's largest consumer electronics manufacturers and distributors. And this product, XF3, is the first manifestation, the first fruit of that collaboration. To give you kind of a sense of where are we today? I think the first thing to say is that we're very close. I think about 6 weeks away from actually to the product being manufacturable and very, very final checks now from a testing and engineering perspective, on time versus what we expected it to be, which is good. And actually, even before the product is fully available or fully kind of closed off, we have secured our first brand partnership on that as well. So Russell Hobbs will be the first brand that goes live with the product owned by the Spectrum Brands Group and distributed by the Product Care Group within the U.K. We are very confident we know from previewing that they have done of this product that it will be on sale. So it will be in sale in some of the biggest U.K. washing machine retailers. I'm saying autumn, it could even be before that. So delighted that we have our first one in hand, and that will generate money in the short term and beyond through 2025, '26 and so on. But actually, now that the product is nearing this kind of final stages of development, I'm really pleased to be able to say that there is significant interest actually across the globe, particularly still in Europe, where I think an awareness of this issue is probably highest. Four of Europe's largest appropriate retailers, kind of consumer electronics variety retailers, have expressed a very strong interest in being able to take this product and put their brand on it. And actually, this is again another really good fruit of collaboration with Donlim. As we said, Donlim, preeminent when it comes to manufacture, but actually also comes in terms of distribution, there really isn't a retailer or a consumer electronics brand in the world that doesn't know or doesn't already buy from Donlim. So very pleasing that we have really made some quite significant progress with those guys. And actually, in addition to that, the washing machine companies are interested in it as well. So of those world's top 10 that we talked about in the context of the domestic care, they are the same appropriate customers as well for this device. And 3 of those world's top 10 have expressed an interest in being able to test this device with a view to them bringing it to market within this year as well. So again, to give a kind of a sense of the quantum, some of those guys are, again, even bigger than the domestic washing machine manufacturers we talked about on care and some pretty significant volume that they do as well. So as I said, extremely pleased that the product is performing well, is nearing completion and that there is clearly a very strong appetite from industry to be able to market, distribute and sell those products as well. Okay. Just very top lines in terms of strategy and opportunity. I think I don't want to dwell too long upon this. I just want to highlight, we are very much talking about, I guess, short-term pieces and then maybe some medium-term opportunities for the business as well. But to remind all current and prospective investors that really the goal for this business, the goal for Xeros is that our technology can become default. And I have every reason to believe that now. I thought that when I agreed to join the business some sort of 2.5 years ago. And I really probably see that, that's going to be more likely now than ever is the case. Whether it's on the domestic care, there is no other viable technology out there, which delivers, as I said, that solution to effectively cleaning and looking up after clothes at the same time. On filtration, we've always said that whilst legislation is a little bit quiet, at this moment in time, it certainly has not gone away. And we definitely believe that it's a case of when, not if that happens. And indeed, we hear that played back to us all the time with the washing machine companies that we currently talk to about it, and it's the same on finish. There's never until this point, been a viable solution for replacement of pumice within the processing of denim. We've absolutely managed to do that, and so we do absolutely feel that there's no reason why the technology cannot become a default. And these are pretty significant industries to give you a sense of where we can get to with it. Okay. So in a kind of a summary and outlook piece then, I mean there's a level of repetition here, but I guess it's nice to be able to just pause for a second and look at this on one page. We have firstly and foremost, made some real good progression in the last kind of 12 to 18 months. I'm very happy with that. But it's not just been unverifiable progression, if I could put it that way. We have now reached a point where we can point to very clear milestones on domestic care with IFB, our filtration with the Russell Hobbs partnership, and Yilmak on the denim processing in terms of receipt of orders that we are absolutely in a position where this business is, as we say, very much progressing from being a development business into a live commercial business. And we're just at the beginning. So these developments have really just been in the last couple of months. We will see further developments through the rest of this year, which will be fantastic in terms of setting the scene, setting those kind of foundations, the business is longer term, but actually will also be growing in terms of generating cash as well for 2025 and beyond, which is obviously key for us at the moment as well. As always, we like to have a little image. So this is just, again, further evidence of what that means. So these are actual products, which are either currently available or will be available in the forthcoming months on filtration, on domestic care, on commercial care and indeed on the denim processing side of it. So we really feel like we have turned the corner and it's a progression from here on in. Alex, do you want to give us a very kind of headline summary in terms of the financials from that.

Yes, no problem. Thanks, Neil. So we were down at the revenue level due to the stages and the timing of our license contracts where we expect to be at the end of the year. We did reduce our EBITDA loss by a small amount last year as well. So that's off the back of effectively cost control from Neil and I in the business. We took some costs out of the business midway through last year. And we're seeing the effect of that in the second half, and also we'll continue to see the effect of that in 2025. Yes, so that was all effectively admin expenses drop and the cash outflow. So we had cash at April of GBP 1.4 million. The first few months of the year are always our most expensive for a number of reasons. So we don't expect that level of cash burns to continue for the rest of the year. We are kind of -- we maintain pretty tight controls over our cash, and we are making sure that when we spend our money, it's in the service of our commercial goals, and that's what we will continue to do. So while we did spend a little bit of cash in the first half year, as I say, for some specific reasons, it's always the biggest part of the year from a cash flow point of view. So we expect that to come down for the rest of the year.

Okay. I mean there's a few more specifics in terms of the numbers for last year, which as I said, you'll be able to see on the deck, which you'll be able to access. But I think those are the key points that we want to get across. So Jake, if I can hand back to you for a moment.

Absolutely. Neil, Alex, Klaas thank you very much indeed for your presentation this afternoon. [Operator Instructions]. But just while the team take a few moments to review those questions that have been submitted already, just like to remind you the recording of this presentation, along with a copy of the slides and the published Q&A, can all be accessed via our invested dashboards. Klaas, as you can see there, we have received a number of questions that were both pre-submitted ahead of today's event as well as those that make their way through and throughout your presentation this afternoon as well. So firstly, thank you to all of those on the call for taking the time to submit their questions. And guys, at this point, if I may just hand back to you, just to read out those questions and give your responses where it's appropriate to do so. And if I pick up from you at the end, that would be great. Thank you.

Excellent. Thank you, Jake. So yes, I mean, I'll take these kind of in order. We've had a quick scan through whilst Jake was updating you there. A big commonality in the themes. But if I take them kind of one by one. So the first question is asking, can your filtration technology being converted to clean out other materials, contaminants from water? Really interesting questions. So I think the major answer is, yes, 100%. It absolutely can be. We've always felt that whilst microplastics is an unsolved issue and one that needs to be very immediately kind of responded to, that actually there is an opportunity for innovation when it comes to filtration generally. Again, not to get too kind of carried way, but part of the reason why we were very keen and vice versa to partner with Donlim in particular is because they are very well versed in terms of the production of complementary devices, if you like. So in a small domestic appliance world, they manufacture a colossal amount of coffee makers, vacuum cleaners, even air conditioning units as well. We have very early stage conversations for those guys about the theoretical potential for implementation of our technology within them. Because actually we feel as though the kind of the USP of what we've got is the fact that it's a rotating in the cleaning level. So that's really what we do very well. I mean not to massively kind of simplify it, not least because I'm the least technical person you'll ever meet, but I mean if a lot of it comes down to kind of mesh size as well. So I think, yes is the answer. But I think the key point that I want to make here is that that's not for now. The focus for the business is on commercializing what we have, which is ready, which is good to go and establishing those transactions for the business in the next kind of year or 2. Okay, similar kind of a theme for question #2. So can the XF3 filtration units be scaled up to be placed on the main inlet for water treatment plants or desalination plants? So I think theoretical answer to that is, yes, yes, maybe, probably. It's a kind of a dialogue that we hear quite a lot because, unfortunately, whilst everybody recognizes the microfiber pollution is an issue, not surprisingly, most industries don't really want to have to take responsibility for it. I'm afraid to say as an old washing machine boy as I am, the appliances industry isn't keen on particularly saying it's their problem because their point being, we don't manufacture the clothes, why do we have to be the ones to solve it? It should be a wastewater treatment solution and so on. I think, yes, is the theoretic answer on that. I think, a significant amount of development would need to be undertaken. There are practical considerations as well, which is that to have a very fine mesh to capture microfibers; equally, you need to make sure what's been filtered before that or else that fine mesh would get clogged with large materials. So theoretically, it's something that we could in outer years. On a personal level, I actually think there -- well, not just a personal level, but I think the prevailing attitude is that if it comes to microfiber capture, the most cost-effective way that this can be done in the near term is absolutely filters on washing machines. Okay. I'll pass the answer this next question and probably hand over to Alex. So what we need to do if it looks like you might run out cash for breakeven, take out a bank loan or do a rights issue so as not to dilute small shareholders. I think what I would say here is that, I guess, the key point that I want to make is that the fundamental difference about the conversation and the message that we're delivering to shareholders today is that for many years, Xeros has been in need of support, has been in need of funding to demonstrate that it's theoretically wonderful technology, can get to a point of commercialization. As we sit here today, hopefully, the message has come across loud and clear, we have reached that one. So our technology is now commercially over that technical point, and we very firmly believe that we'll only grow from this point onwards. So we feel I think it's fair to say much more positive because of that. At this point in the year as well, we very much wanted to have those key things in place, which were IFB domestic active, ready to go with XOrbs orders, Yilmak commercially active with XOrbs orders and indeed a very clear indication that we have brand partners to take the XF3 to market this year. All of those 3 things are now in place, which gives us good cause for confidence. Alex, I don't know if you want to add anything to that?

Yes. I think I'd just echo a few words there, really, Neil, that we are into a different phase of the business' existence. We've kind of crossed that threshold with the partners that we've got to take us from a promising technology that will be commercialized 1 day to a technology that is being commercialized now. And that brings with it a different set of challenges, ones that are more in line with kind of -- a non kind of start-up type business in that we've got customers to manage, we've got working capital to manage, we've got supply chains to manage and we've got those contracts to manage as these new products launch into new markets, and we see what the run rate, we see how the take-up is, see to get kind of real evidence of our technology meeting real consumers in the real world. So we're incredibly excited about that. We're in good conversations with our partners about the kind of numbers they are expecting. We're in good conversations with our suppliers about the numbers we're expecting. So we're absolutely as confident as we can be about the situation -- the commercial situation of the business as it sits today. We, as a Board, spend our time kind of scenario planning and looking at what's going to happen into the future. We are -- I'd like to say, we're delighted to get to the part of the business' life cycle that we've got to so far, and we're really excited about the prospects of the business this year and beyond.

Okay. Great. Thank you. So next question is -- I just picked up on this just to change things a little bit. So with concurrent launches in India, Europe and the hospitality sector, how are you managing focus and resourcing? Is there a lead market strategy in place? Or are all go-to-market paths being pursued equally? Again, it's a good question. It's probably the one that I spend the most time thinking about. When I first joined the business, my natural inclination was to think there's no way that all 4 -- if we say commercial laundry, domestic laundry, garment processing and filtration, there's no way that all 4 can be viable. And so to be blunt, I spent the first 6 to 9 months thinking, which one of these can be cut because we're not going to be able to manage them all. It became quickly clear to me that, number one, the technology was good enough and viable and actually in demand from those industries. So that was kind of question one answer. And the second one was, well, did we either have good enough licensees in place or the opportunity to bring those licensees in place. And again, the answer was kind of yes. So over the last kind of couple of years, it's been pleasing that actually we've managed to make progress on all of them. I think it's probably fair to say, and Alex kind of alluded to it earlier, we have prioritized some of the others. So our engagement with domestic laundry probably has been #1 for the business, not least because we've effectively had 2 things to sell to them, if you want. So there's domestic care applications and, indeed, filtration for domestic wash machines as well, which are both very relevant and interesting to those groups. So we've got efficiencies as a result of that. So yes, I mean I'm comfortable that we've managed that piece effectively. I think it's fair to say that commercial laundry has probably taken a bit more of a backseat, albeit it has kind of had a bit of a momentum of its own, not least because we've already had a live licensee in place, an active licensee in the case of IFB on commercial. And indeed, with our wonderful case study, Georges in France, who, as Alex said, have made some really quite significant developments themselves. So whilst that's been sort of a back-burner, we plan to have a bit more focus on that in about 18 months' time when we have equally made some good progress on kind of the domestic laundry piece. I think then on the garment finishing, that has been a separate team, I think, as well historically, the technology has gotten itself to where it needs to be. And it is about finding those right partnerships. We specifically have gone for this IP-rich, asset-light approach, which means that we don't need to have significant amounts of resource. It's been about sharing this mature technology in the right way and having the right kind of commercial approach as well in terms of sales and marketing to do that. So hopefully, that's not too woefully an answer, but I mean, we are reviewing it constantly, but we're managing to -- as I say, managed to make progress on it even if there has been focus on one area rather than another. Okay. We've got another question here about regulation. So are there regulatory tailwinds that are due to be implemented to make the Xeros products a must-have? Again, it's a really interesting one. We generally always talk about this in the context of the microfiber filtration piece. There was a real hustle effectively a couple of years ago. I think everyone that knows Xeros knows about France and France having implemented legislation, which was to go live at the beginning of January 1, 2025. That legislation was passed. It's still on the legislative book, but has been paused. The reason why is because standards were not clear. And actually, I think this is probably worth goodwill and good thoughts on the part of the French legislature met the reality of commerciality, which is that -- I think it's fair to say that there were not clear standards in place. There was not clear technological solutions in place as well. But that situation has changed quite significantly, not least it's part of the reason why we took a decision to introduce an out-of-machine device. So rather than waiting for an integrated machine development program with one of the brands to come to fruition, we thought, well, no, we want to be able to put this into the market for a number of reasons: one, so that we could show that the technology works; but equally, to demonstrate for 2, that actually people are willing and prepared and they want to find that solution. So I think that actually our product being in the marketplace, and indeed others that, I think, offer a more viable solution coming out soon as well. I think that will be really helpful in terms of, if you like, taking some of the wind out of the sails of the objections that some of the washing machine trade organizations have been able to present. And then the other part of this as well is that we, I'm sure, have spoken before about the fact that the IEC has set up a working body to effectively define those standards. Xeros is very honored to be asked to be part of that working group. And indeed, our sense is that standard, that recommended standard, which has been a thing for France and beyond, should be settled within the next 12 months. I mean it's regulatory. It's a bit bureaucratic, so it always takes a level of time. But that process is in place. I would say as well that we don't see legislative initiatives disappearing. There is still work underway within the U.K. Private Members' bill. I think that was up to 6 of the states in the U.S. either are passing or in the process of passing legislation related to this very topic. There is moves at a federal level. Other countries, I believe Australia has effectively passed it, albeit for 2030. So I think technology being in the market, the IEC recommendation being established, all will happen in the next kind of 12 months. We'll very much be able to demonstrate that there are responses to those legislative initiatives. And for sure, I mean, let's be clear, if we position ourselves well as a technology provider within that space, I mean, it's a significant opportunity for Xeros. So yes, I mean, we can never necessarily influence legislation at the end of the day, but there's definitely an environment still very much in the horizon, which is going to help us. Okay. Let's just see if there are any others which we're not effectively covering. So yes, there's a lot of questions, not surprisingly, about cash. So last investor meet presentation, we were confident we had enough cash to see us through to commercialization, do we believe we can get enough cash flow breakeven with existing cash balance? I mean, I think, we've kind of hopefully addressed those. The reality is that we had to reach a certain point of -- a tipping point. I'm repeating myself, but I think it's important so people understand it. The fact that our current licensees are now commercially live is massively important. As we have built out our commercial plans for 2025, they have been based upon contributions from those areas. We have not expected that some magic kind of bonus was going to drop out of the sky, although we are in very, very interesting conversations and absolutely expect to be able to progress those quite significantly with very big global brands, particularly on domestic washing machines. We are not reliant and we're not expecting those to influence 2025's numbers. So the fact that we're not making announcements in that regard does not, in any way, influence what our expectations are for 2025. The caveat within all of this, of course, is that we're a B2B business. We're a licensing business. We provide the technology. We do not make the final decisions about when exactly people commercialize, the quantum to which they commercialize or, indeed, what the consumer does when this new technology gets into their hands. So that element of it clearly is out of our hands. What I can say is that at this stage of the year, we are very much in the position that we had hoped to be, which is hugely encouraging. And yes, we'll see how further progression goes in the next kind of couple of months. I don't know, Alex, Klaas, if you want to add anything specifically to that.

No, no. From our perspective, I think you've covered it, Neil. As you say, we've crossed that commercial threshold. And now we look to those products as they get rolled out.

And also from my end, not really much to add to that. I think, Alex, you addressed it earlier as well and said scenario planning is what we do, and that is how we try to anticipate what may or may not happen. And as Neil said, what consumers do at the end of the day is out of our control. Another factor that is outside of our control is obviously the discussions around tariffs globally and what that does to flows of goods between continents. So those are factors that may influence it, and that's what we're trying to anticipate and plan for as a Board. Did I shock Neil into...

I think Neil might have just frozen there.

No problem. I can pick up this. I think there's one more question to cover, which is around the placing of the filter as it sits around the washing machine. So the question is, it showed it's sitting on the top, can it be installed anyway? Yes. So it's very much a feature that was designed into the XF3 was that it can sit anywhere around the machine. And that's beneficial for a couple of reasons: One, it doesn't have to sit on top. A lot of the filters that we've seen previously are gravity fed and so would have to sit on top of a machine, not ours. Ours doesn't have to be gravity fed. So I think the ideal place is to put it under a sink where your drain pipe goes and then it can just intercept the wastewater pipe, do what it needs to do and then the wastewater can carry on as normal. So no, it's flexible positioning by design.

Guys, can you hear me okay? Am I back?

Neil, yes, you're back.

Apologies. The other question, I think, maybe which we should address is, there's a specific one about whether the Board will be using money to buy shares. And I will just point investors to the fact that the Board did exactly that in an open trading period that we had earlier this year. So if the sense, is does the management team have confidence? It's literally putting their money where their mouths are. I think that's a very clear indicator that yes.

Yes, Neil, exactly, that is how I was going to answer it as well. If you look at the past behavior, I've personally participated in several of the financing that the company has done. And both David and I purchased shares in the open market in January after the trading update. And this is not the right time or place to speculate about what may or may not happen in the future. So I think what you can look at is past behavior.

Guys, at this point, if I may just jump back in there. Thank you very much indeed for being so generous of your time there and addressing all of those questions that came in from investors this afternoon. And of course, if there are any further questions that do come through, we'll make these available to you immediately after the presentation has ended. But Neil, perhaps before really now just looking to redirect those on the call to provide you with their feedback, which I know is particularly important to yourself and the company, if I could please just ask you for a few closing comments just to wrap up with, that would be great.

I mean I think the first thing that I would say is, thank you to the investors. We have a lot of long-standing investors that have shown a great deal of patience towards the business, and we're extremely appreciative of that. And I think the second thing I would say is that we are, as a management team, very pleased with the progress that we have made, not just in the last few months, but within the last kind of 18 to 24 months. And we're pleased that we're able to start to demonstrate what that looks like. But we are by no means finished. This is just the beginning of the process that we've been really working very hard towards getting to. We are quietly confident that in the forthcoming months, we'll have further good news to be able to share with our investor base. And yes, I mean, we can't unfortunately relay the reality of everything that's going on at the moment. But hopefully, you can see from the things that we're saying today, from our demeanor, we are very, very pleased with the shape that the business is in.

Perfect, Neil. That's great. And thank you once again for updating investors this afternoon. Could I please ask investors not to close this session as you will now be automatically redirected for the opportunity to provide your feedback in order that the management team can really better understand your views and expectations. This will only take a few moments to complete, but I'm sure it will be greatly valued by the company. On behalf of the management team of Xeros Technology Group plc, we would like to thank you for attending today's presentation. That now concludes today's session. So good afternoon to you all.

Thank you.