AbbVie Inc. (ABBV) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Great. Thanks for joining us, everybody. I'm Terence Flynn, Morgan Stanley's U.S. biopharma analyst. I'm very pleased to be hosting AbbVie this morning. Joining us from the company, we have the company's CEO, Rob Michael. We have Jeff Stewart, the company's Chief Commercial Officer; and Roopal Thakkar, the company's Chief Scientific Officer. Thank you all so much for being here today. I'm really looking forward to it.

Thanks.

Absolutely. Just before we get started, for important disclosures, please see the Morgan Stanley research disclosure website at www.morganstanley.com/researchdisclosures. If you have any questions, please reach out to her Morgan Stanley sales rep. But thanks so much, gentlemen, for being here. Really, really appreciate it.

Rob, I thought we'd start high level. We've been asking every company this, which is maybe an unanswerable question, but just would love your perspective on the policy dynamic. Obviously, you guys are very plugged in. You're having a lot of discussions across the industry right now. And so maybe just level set us kind of your perspective on where we stand. And I think maybe the other question is just time frame to resolution, if that's possible at all to speculate on because I think that's what a lot of investors are looking for here is, are we getting close to resolution?

Yes. Look, I mean, we obviously actively engaged the administration. I mean obviously, our focus has always been on ways to improve access and affordability while also maintaining the healthy innovation ecosystem we have in this country. And so as we look at the various policies that are being pursued, we're certainly very encouraged by the focus on global freeloading, and we've been working with the U.S. trade representative on providing information ideas to address that. I mean, clearly, we've highlighted in the past is this disparity between the innovation spend in the U.S. So what we're spending actually on innovative medicines as a percent of GDP, around 0.8%. When you look at Europe, it's half that. We look at some of the unfair practices in Europe in terms of the timing for reimbursement decisions. There's an EU directive of 6 months. It's taking much longer than that in reality. So it's much longer in terms of reimbursement. When you look at things like clawbacks, in the U.K., for example, it's 20%. It's way too high and doesn't recognize the innovation that we're bringing to the market. You have the hospital payback system in Italy. You have new indications coming to market and getting price cuts. So there's a lot of opportunities, I think, to really working with the administration because we need the administration's help to address this through trade negotiations. And so we're encouraged that, that's an area of focus. And I think as an industry, we are actively engaged in trying to address that. What we have today a direct-to-patient program with Synthroid. I know that's another area that as an industry, we are looking for opportunities to pursue that. So we have that Synthroid delivers program. It's around a $25 co-pay. As we study that, I think it's very much dependent on your portfolio. And we do have a good understanding of -- at about a $75 level the -- you start to see prescription abandonment at the pharmacy. And so you need to have an offering where you're in that sweet spot if you think about insulins and the $35 co-pay. so to the extent that there's products in your portfolio that can fit that. Now there are exceptions and obesity is like an exception where there's a greater willingness to pay today, but that's a -- something you can pursue but it isn't across the entire portfolio. It is specific to certain products depending on the out-of-pocket at the pharmacy. And so that's another area. The other one, I'd say we're very much focused on is reform in 340B. I mean that's clearly an example of a program that was intended to help patients. Patients are not getting the benefit. The abuse we're seeing in 340B is -- we're actually seeing patients pay more in many cases than they should be. And also, if you think about it, you're just essentially taking away from funding of future innovation. I mean you think about the R&D dollars that are not available to us because you have this abuse in 340B. So working with the administration on addressing that as well. So I'd say all of us are actively engaged in different ways, but we will continue to stay very committed to working towards a resolution, it's difficult for me to tell you, Terence, on the timing of that. But I can just tell you that we are all actively engaged at trying to reach a point of, I'd say, supporting patients with their affordability, but also making sure that we preserve the American leadership in innovation.

What -- and then there was a cabinet meeting a couple of weeks ago where it appeared that they were linking tariffs and MFN. Again, any perspective on that. And as a result, is this all going to get bundled together? Is it 2 separate parallel processes? Any thoughts?

It's -- we don't have enough information to know how that would work. I can tell you, as it relates to tariffs, we await the 232 investigation results. We've articulated that we have a very significant U.S. footprint. We have 11 sites currently. We've committed to investing $10 billion of capital over the next decade, that includes adding 4 new sites to our network. We recently announced a new API plant that we'll be constructing in North Chicago, Illinois. That's part of the capital commitment and will help expand our U.S. presence. We've also said that in '25, an impact we feel we are fairly insulated from at this juncture. And then the way to think about the impact for AbbVie in '26 and beyond is we would not expect it to be outsized relative to peers. We have a significant U.S. footprint. I've mentioned before that Skyrizi is made in the U.S. for the domestic market. And so I think we're fairly well positioned, but we'll have to see what the outcomes are of the 232 investigation.

Okay. One more is just the -- Lilly's has raised price on Mounjaro in the U.K., and I know you mentioned this global free loading concept. How do you approach that from a portfolio perspective? I know it's different for every company. And obviously, you have some products that are already launched and across the globe, but then you have new product launches coming up strategically, how are you guys approaching that through this MFN lens?

Yes, Terence, I think particularly, we're focused on the new global launches. I would say, as you look at our portfolio, that's where we can look across the territories. Now there's different rules by different countries. But there is flexibility and many of our peers and AbbVie are thinking about this concept of a global launch price or how do you really think about a global list price. And I think that's important. So we look at products in our future here like EMRELIS, which we recently launched in the U.S. as we think about establishing that for lung cancer around the world. That's a big consideration. We don't know exactly how the MFN is going to play out. It's in motion now. But there's no doubt that, that's in our consideration set as we think about particularly our new launches.

I would add to that [ a bit on ] as well as we think about Parkinson's. So there's opportunities as we think about new products coming forward. How do you address that, I'd say, equalization approach on global list prices.

And do you think -- I know it's probably a country-by-country basis, but are some of the EU governments amenable to this? Have they been engaged? Or is this going to be very difficult because of some of just the historical precedents that were going on?

Well, that's why I've said we need to have the support from the administration. Clearly, the pharma companies alone cannot get it done. And so we do need a partnership with the administration through trade negotiations to address these unfair practices. There are tools that are available to the President, Section 301. And certainly something that can be employed to address these unfair practices. So clearly, I think you saw a reaction coming out of -- with tariffs and the concern in Europe around investment flight. I think what we've seen, frankly, in the course of this year, a greater level of engagement with new leadership in general versus what I have seen historically. And so I think that did help at least bring the conversation forward, but we will not be able to accomplish, I think, real progress without the support of the administration.

Okay. And I think just to add to Rob's point. I mean, we see from our market access teams around the world that the governments are being sensitized to this issue. There's no question about it. They're paying attention. They're watching very carefully. They understand. Again, they have their own rules, but there's some significant flexibility around most of the world. I would say the other thing is that the industry has really pulled together. Rob mentioned in his opening remarks around the U.K. clawback system, which is probably the most extreme in the industry, 20% basically tax on the revenue. And the American companies, in particular, with the help of USTR are -- it's a pretty intense negotiation right now to sort of close the books on the NHS funding. So I would say the governments are increasingly sensitized but this is a real global issue.

Okay. Maybe last one, the policy side before we get to the business. Linzess, VRAYLAR on the next round of IR negotiation list. Just wondering if you can provide any high-level thoughts on that? I know last year, you guys went through this process. This year, it's a frequent question on everyone's mind just because of the new administration. I'm not sure how much you're going to comment here, but figured I'd ask it because you guys are on the list this year.

Yes. Look, I mean when you're going through private negotiations, public comments are not helpful. And so we're going through the process now. The prices will be public in the November time frame. At that time, we will speak more publicly about the negotiations, but I don't think it makes a lot of sense for us as we're going through private negotiations to be speaking publicly on what's on the details.

What about -- do you have the personnel the same generally? Are these different people other than like the people at the top or like the people you interacted with last time?

It's different.

Okay. Okay. All right. We'll stay tuned. So on the business, I think you guys have had 2 of the most successful recent launches in the industry with Skyrizi and Rinvoq, obviously multiple upgrades to consensus estimates and continue to deliver against your long-term guidance. As we think about the forward from here though, what do you think are kind of the key drivers that we should be focused on? And is there anything that's still underappreciated? Is it maybe depth in IBD? Is it some of these new indications for Rinvoq as you guys look at kind of where things stand and the forward drivers, what should we all be focused on?

Yes, it's an important question, and we're very excited about the performance. I mean this year -- just this year, we've raised the guidance by $1.5 billion between both of the assets. So the momentum is significant.

The total company [ worth is ] $1.5 billion including that but that's more than than just Skyrizi.

Right. And so overall, super impressed. Now if you think about where the tailwinds are, largely the performance is based on share and also market growth. So if you think about share, we see significant capture rate, I've given some of these facts and data before. So if you look at IBD, which is 1 of our more recent launches, we're capturing 1 out of every 2 newer switching patients between Rinvoq and Skyrizi. And so as that momentum builds up in the capture rates and we start to see the persistency curve on very well-tolerated medication, you just start to build your TRx share. So the share capture should continue significantly based on how we're performing in the market. The other dynamic is the markets are quite robust. We see these markets grow at different rates. Certainly, atopic dermatitis grows in the mid-teens. Most of the other ones grow in the high single digits. RA drugs grow maybe the mid- to lower single digits, but still very, very robust. And what we see, Terence, is that the first is, what drives the frontline markets in these markets where we do play in many cases is just the bio penetration rate. So there's just many more people that can be treated with advanced therapy. And then the other dynamic in second line plus, we see that there's significant opportunities to sort of upgrade or make sure people are getting long-term sort of care. So we actually see in some of these markets that the second line plus market is now growing faster than the frontline market. So overall, in terms of the market dynamics, very, very favorable. I would say the other piece that's quite significant is for Rinvoq. And we've talked before, and you mentioned in your question, we're now starting to see the emergence of sort of what we've called that next wave of Rinvoq indications. So we have GCA approved in the rheumatology area. And we've recently seen some really transformational data in alopecia areata, really very, very distinctive data. And when we stack all of that up, so GCA, alopecia, vitiligo, lupus, HS. So those big indications we think are going to add more than $2 billion at peak revenue to the top line. So overall, significant tailwinds, very strong performance and more indications to come that will help fuel those big products.

Okay. Great. I'm assuming you're in the midst of formulary discussions now for '26. Any kind of early read on anything as we think about '26 dynamics from a pricing standpoint on the immunology franchise?

Yes. We -- we're right in the midst of those negotiations and we see that things will look, we believe, quite good for '26. I mean they're obviously not all complete, but a very stable access situation for these assets, again, given their market position, given their indications, given the historical formulary positions we've had. So we don't believe that there's going to be any significant surprises. And our position has been that when we look at pricing, I mean, this category is a volume-based category. There's no question about that. But we see sort of low single-digit continued concessions in terms of maintaining the formulary positions. And that's still a very good guidance.

Okay. And as we look -- and we look at this business, and the strategy always has to -- is to essentially bring innovation forward that elevates standard of care. And we've essentially brought that forward, Skyrizi and Rinvoq are really driving differentiation. And so that ultimately is what's driving these discussions why we continue to have -- make good progress. It is also why we have similar strong performance outside the U.S. as well. So I think pursuing that strategy as we think about long-term -- really insulates you against any of those types of pressures. And so that's what we're driving. We're very pleased with the outcomes of the discussions we've had in the U.S. clearly, even outside the U.S. for Skyrizi and Rinvoq in terms of access. And it's been several years now where we've become very predictable in terms of being able to call the price dynamics in this space. And I think we've made tremendous progress there.

Market appreciates visibility. So maybe just 1 on the competitive landscape before you [ did ] some of that pipeline in immunology. So J&J has TREMFYA now in IBD, but also an oral IL-23 product for psoriasis. So as you guys look at the competitive position of Skyrizi, maybe just remind us why you're confident in maintaining an entrenched position here? And is this more about growing the overall pie here? Or is this more about continuing to grow share? And how should we think about that as we look ahead to the next couple of years here?

Yes, very good. And I think the answer in a nutshell is it's going to be both. So we're very confident in the position of Skyrizi in the marketplace. And some of that is what Rob mentioned, the data set we have, the strength of the data set, whether it's a head-to-head trials against multiple mechanisms and just sort of the core understanding and perceptions of our physicians is extremely strong. So we have a very, very good competitive position. Now having said that, right, TREMFYA is entering into the IBD space. We've competed with them for 7 years in the psoriasis space. And we understand the profile of that medication. We understand the emerging profile of the oral, and we still feel quite strong. Now look, TREMFYA will take some share from Skyrizi in terms of in-play share. But Terence, to your point, that is going to be, we believe, more than offset on how fast that IL-23 category is going to grow. And to give the investors perspective, right now, in the IBD space in terms of patient share, the IL-23 class is about 10%, just hit low double digits. In psoriatic disease, it's 60%. So these are very special medications. And so our ability to both grow share, compete effectively and basically take advantage of the tailwinds of the category are quite significant. And in terms of the new potential oral, we've seen how the orals play out in particularly psoriasis over many, many years. We've 2 head-to-head trials against the existing orals. And while [ ICO ] looks to be the best of the breed in terms of the oral, it still doesn't stack up to what you see with Skyrizi. I mean if you look at the guidelines in psoriasis, it says, moderate, severe, use the best drug that's going to get it under control and keep it under control long term. So we do think we have a strong competitive position there as well when that product comes in. We'll probably see it take a significant amount of share of the oral category. But we do believe Skyrizi will be quite resilient in the face of that product as well.

Yes. And I know you guys did a head-to-head versus sort of TYK2. Is that something you could consider for oral IL-23 head-to-head on the table?

So we've done the Otezla head-to-head that's already read out. So TYK2 is ongoing. I think with those 2, you'll see a clear establishment of the efficacy that Jeff is referencing on how high it is. And that comes with quarterly dosing, which in some of these studies, we ask the patients, what's your preference in -- against the orals? And the outcomes, they actually prefer quarterly dosing to the oral, and you don't have a food effect. And Skyrizi will have psoriatic arthritis, very strong data in PSA. 30% of patients with psoriasis will move on to joint. So you already have that confidence built into Skyrizi and the really nice dosing regimen. So given the couple that we've already done, not really clear to us if there's a need to do a 1/3, given what's already known and what Jeff teams and our medical teams have already been able to promote already.

Would it drive greater market growth if you have patients starting on oral and transitioning to an injectable? Would it actually be a tailwind for the whole category as you think about another oral?

We haven't really seen that. We have seen a little bit of an expansion, let's say, the mild to early moderate when Otezla and [ Ducra ] came in, although -- so TYK2 sort of caught in the middle. It's got Humira like efficacy and kind of JAK safety. So I think you have to really think about, there is a feature in a product that is an oral route of administration, but you really got to look at the whole picture of what the offering is, particularly when you see that standard of care is so high in psoriasis with Skyrizi.

Okay. Probably a couple for Roopal. Here is Amgen, Sanofi have OX40 antibodies in atopic derm. You guys have a very strong position here with Rinvoq in the second-line setting. And so as you look at those emerging profiles, how does that -- what does that do from a competitive standpoint for Rinvoq here?

Yes. It's great to have novel mechanisms entering. We don't see them differentiating at all with the 13 class and maybe even negatively differentiating from an efficacy standpoint. There may be some advantages to the convenience and dosing. However, similar to psoriasis, you want to treat these patients and get their disease under control that have atopic dermatitis, in particular, the skin clearance and even more relevant than in psoriasis is this itch, which really affects their daily lives. So I would say Rinvoq still is clearly a part from the biologics, I would say, in its own class. Existing strength, I would say, in second line, new class coming maybe slightly better dosing, but we don't see the differentiation on efficacy. And I would say a question mark, it would be around itch.

Okay. you guys have talked a lot about your kind of medium- to longer-term strategy in immunology and pursuing some of these novel combination approaches. So maybe just Roopal, you could give us an update on kind of where you guys stand on that front and how this fits into a life cycle management strategy for that whole franchise. Obviously, you guys have a long history here, a really important franchise for the company.

Yes, we still see some levels of unmet need as Rob was talking about our overarching strategy and where we can continue to differentiate. IBD, in particular, is a good example where we do see great benefits afforded by Skyrizi and Rinvoq. However, majority of the patients still don't achieve remission in the long term. So when you have an asset like a Skyrizi, which have very strong efficacy and a very favorable safety profile, that creates a nice opportunity for us to potentially combine with that. So in IBD, we are doing combinations with our alpha 4 beta 7. We have lutikizumab, which is currently in Phase III for HS that's being combined. Following those, we'll have a TL1A that will combine and even a TREM1. So multiple shots on goal in a very large, still underserved market. And those data will start to read out next year and give us an idea of what we'd want to move on to either dose optimization or Phase III. We're also in the clinic for combinations in psoriatic arthritis with lutikizumab and Skyrizi and then lutikizumab and our own CD40 in rheumatoid arthritis. So there's a variety of areas where we can do combinations. And then as we think to the future of development. We recently talked about Capstan deal looking at B-cell depletion, and we have a variety of other assets in addition to CAR-Ts that could also play in B-cell depletion. And this would be across potentially immunology prototype diseases are lupus but we'd also be looking in larger indications like rheumatoid arthritis. So it's a very robust pipeline in immunology to follow on to the strength that we see with Skyrizi and Rinvoq, but to raise that bar, that's been set.

Yes. And any thoughts like biomarkers always seem to be elusive here in immunology. I'm assuming for a lot of these combinations, that's something you're looking at as well? Just any progress in terms of kind of predicting people's responsiveness with these agents?

Yes, absolutely. So for all of these studies, we have a precision medicine focus that includes immunology and neuroscience, oncology, all of the indications. So we will be doing tissue collection, biomarker collection and anywhere we see a particular combination that is the best fit. That is something that we would really want to pressure test. And if it looks valid, that's something we would want to take forward because if you see even a step up in efficacy even higher in a biomarker selected group like we observe in oncology, that does simplify decisions that a clinician would make and even down the road later stages of development when you have a lot of biosimilars, it could even enable frontline utilization if you have a biomarker approach. But to your point, it has been elusive in immunology, but we certainly have the tools to potentially unlock that if there's something there.

Okay. Great. I want to just touch quickly on aesthetics because I think it does give some insight in just terms of broader macro here. And again, as you guys think about looking to the back half of the year? Maybe just tell us kind of current state of what you're seeing in U.S., rest of world, and how you're thinking about that franchise? And I know 1 of the growth drivers you talked about is the short-acting toxin. How does that fit into the strategy here in terms of the longer-term growth?

Yes. What we see, Terence, as you mentioned, the consumer is still under pressure. So as we see go forward in the second half of the year, we're not forecasting like a big surge or a lift or anything like that. And -- but we still like the market. It's still very underpenetrated, and we know that when that market will turn and come back, which we can help lead, I'll talk about that, we'll be in a very good spot. So if you look overall, maybe I'll talk to 2 of our big markets, the U.S. and China. In the second quarter, the toxin market was flattish. Okay? And it grew, it's more robust in China, so like mid-single digits, say, 7%, 8%. And if you look at the filler market, that's where we've seen the big pressure. So the HA filler market in both markets is down about 20% year-over-year. And we see the same pattern around the world. Brazil is a little more resilient. That's 1 of our smaller markets. So if you take a look at that, right, you do have that macro pressure on the consumer. We see particularly in the U.S. like consumers with under $150,000 of income are the ones that are, in some cases, deferring treatment, skipping some treatments, et cetera. But we do think that our share position is still very, very strong. So what are we thinking about doing as a leader? Well, certainly, in the U.S., we know that toxin market is very critical, and we're investing in front of that BONT/E launch or short-acting tox launch. So we have a significant spend in the back part of the year on a new consumer campaign to keep them as active as possible as we exit in the year. The other thing is that being the leading share position in the big markets with the HA filler, we see a sentiment pressure. So in other words, the consumer might feel am I going to get over filled? Can I get a good natural look? And absolutely, the consumer can. So we're engaging with a new campaign and it's global called Naturally You with all of our big clinics around the world to make sure that communication is clear to both existing and new patients on the look they can get with the HA fillers and the leading Juvederm line. We've also invested in major centers, particularly around the U.S., our AMI centers, and we've opened them in Irvine, Atlanta, early next year in Austin to basically continue the training, our scientific communication, et cetera. So all of that, I think, signifies our belief that this is a nice position for us is a cash pay market where we can continue to lead. And then as you mentioned, we are excited about the short-acting toxin, which we think can stimulate the market, bring in new consumers build the share for Botox, which is the leading share position in the category. And as you know, we have filed that, and we're going to start preparing for that launch, particularly first in the U.S. by the middle of next year.

Okay. Great. Maybe just in the interest of time, another new launch product for you is the subcu levodopa product, it's a very strong launch. I think it surprised a lot of people. And so maybe just remind us how to think about the opportunity set there, the cadence of that launch, U.S., rest Of world as we head into the balance of the year?

Maybe just to zoom out a bit, too. I'm glad you brought up the question, Terence, because as we think about neuroscience, our second large therapeutic area, growing very nicely. We expect to be the leaders in neuroscience next year. We'll pass Roche. And so when I look at business, and I see -- we think of it really in 4 segments with psychiatry, migraine, we cover the full spectrum of the disease in migraine. with VYALEV now, we had DUOPA before and then with tavapadon in the pipeline, a very strong position in Parkinson's and then investing in neurodegeneration the Aliada deal last year that brought us to next-generation A-beta antibody in Alzheimer's with the [indiscernible] platform really gives us a very strong footing in neuroscience. And so we're investing heavily. You saw us recently acquired Gilgamesh. And as we think about next-generation in psychiatry, very active there. And so I'm glad you asked the question. We don't get enough questions on neuroscience, and we're very pleased with the performance there. And I'll let Jeff speak to what we're seeing currently with VYALEV, which is a transformative innovation for patients.

Can I ask just 1, just Rob probably brought that up. Just the opportunity set out there because I think some companies kind of pulled back from neuro. You guys obviously are leaning in. Do you see a significant opportunity set on the BD side in neuro now because maybe there's less competition from some of your peers?

Well, actually, I think you've seen more peers enter the space recently. And you've seen us, if you think about over the last several years, our -- we've been investing across immunology, oncology, neuroscience, but we see opportunities as we think about, it's a large market, high unmet need. We've obviously been investing here. And so I actually think there's more -- if you look at some of the other acquisitions in this space, there's been a greater interest as we think about the opportunity set in neuro. And it really does span across really think about the 4 areas. And we're still all pursuing a treatment for Alzheimer's. I mean there's still a great degree of interest in the industry there. We're hoping somebody actually solves that.

And for VYALEV, this is our subcu small pump for advanced Parkinson's, it's been a very special surprise, very positive surprise. So when we look at our '25 exit at over $400 million, that's largely just the international markets. So this product is ramping significantly faster than we originally thought. And we're seeing now the Medicare patients come online at the end of the year. So that really bodes well for that. Why is this so special? The big thing is that it's a 24-hour continuous infusion of levodopa/carbidopa. And essentially, what that does is it allows these patients to get under control very quickly in the clinics. And then they're able to basically stay under control all night, and that's been almost impossible with any other technology. So the sleeping, the waking, the control over the motor disorders and the other issues around the disease has been remarkable. So the feedback from the physicians and the movement disorder specialists is just outstanding. So we're going to see that drug ramp very nicely over the next few years. And then we're going to add into that global footprint around the world, the new product, tavapadon, and it first will come first. And that's an oral, very novel oral from the Cerevel acquisition and really, frankly, again, a surprise over the strength and the balance of the safety, the tolerability and once a day, again, it control those symptoms. So we're really building a nice Parkinson's franchise on top of a relatively small product, which was DUOPA, we're going to have a very significant presence there now.

Yes. Okay. Great. Maybe just to round it out here on the strategic side. Rob, you mentioned your 4 therapeutic areas and activity on the business development side. But maybe just help us think about like what else are you focused on here in terms of building out that portfolio? It seems like me more early mid-stage just given you don't have any major LOEs through the end of the decade here. So as you think about the opportunity set, what are you most focused on here over the next 12, 18 months?

We have a clear line of sight to growth for at least the next 8 years. And so what I've been trying to do is position the company, right, to drive growth beyond that. So really thinking about investing in new assets, new technologies that can drive growth in the next decade and beyond. Roopal mentioned Capstan. We also acquired Nimble that gave us oral peptide capability immunology. You've seen us very recently, we didn't get a chance to really talk about the excitement we have around the oncology pipeline, a lot of really, I think, very nice developments there, but we've been investing think about wit Etentamig in multiple myeloma, we've also now invested in 2 trispecific opportunities, 1 with Simcere, 1 with IgGI, to give us depth in multiple myeloma to establish a leadership position there for a very long period of time. So continue to invest in certainly in oncology. I mentioned neuroscience. We talked about Gilgamesh, as an example, Aliada is another example. And so -- and then we also entered into the obesity space with the Gubra deal, which we expect to continue to build around. We do see obesity as an area with high unmet need. It's a large market. an opportunity to really be a good growth driver in the next decade and beyond. And so we have now entered that space with that opportunity. We'll look for other opportunities as well to build around it. So the reason we're pursuing these, I call them, early stage deals is because what the company needs is to continue to bolster the pipeline, have a replacement strategy for the current anchors in the next decade and beyond. And so we're very well positioned, as you mentioned, really no significant LOEs in this decade and then with a very clear line of sight to growth. And so for us, we have the flexibility. And we could certainly pursue near-term opportunities, but we don't really need to. It's really about continuing to add depth to the pipeline to ensure we can drive long-term growth and essentially repeat what we've done with Skyrizi, Rinvoq, as they replace Humira as I think about Skyrizi, Rinvoq, how do we drive growth that we're making those investments today for things that will transpire in 9 or 10 years from now.

Well, thank you so much, guys. Really appreciate the time today.

Thanks.

Thank you.