Adaptive Biotechnologies Corporation (ADPT) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

January 9, 2023

NASDAQ US Health Care Life Sciences Tools and Services conference_presentation 40 min

Earnings Call Speaker Segments

Unknown Analyst

analyst
#1

All right. Good afternoon. I hope everybody is enjoying the conference so far. Welcome to day 1 afternoon of the JPMorgan Healthcare Conference. I'm Julia Cheng. I cover life science tools and diagnostics at JPMorgan. And it's my great pleasure to introduce you to our next company presentation today by Adaptive. So with that, I'll turn it over to Chad.

Chad Robins

executive
#2

Thank you, Julia. I'm Chad Robins, I'm the CEO of Adaptive Biotechnologies. I want to wish everyone a happy new year for those in the room and those listening in by webcast. Momentum in Adaptive Biotechnologies is building. We're driving revenue growth. We're advancing our pipeline, and we're managing our operating expenses with a very strong cash position. I want to remind you today, I will be making forward-looking statements both in the presentation and in the question-and-answer session afterwards. The mission of Adaptive is and always has been to translate the genetics of T cell and B cell receptors to develop clinical products. We use our immune system as source code to develop diagnostics and to develop drugs. Last year, in 2022, we sharpened our focus in 2 key strategic and operating areas. The first, we focused into 2 business segments with clear and distinct deliverables. The first business segment is in MRD and it's an execution play to increase penetration. The second is an Immune Medicine where we can unlock the value of our pipeline to deliver drugs. Secondly, we fortified our balance sheet, we had a capital infusion that will drive us to profitability and at the same time, we're effectively managing our burn and our operating expenses. Taking a deeper look at our 2 business segments on Slide 5. In MRD, what is MRD? Minimal residual disease or what I'll call MRD, it's a highly sensitive NGS-based assessment of MRD and heme malignancies, certain lymphoproliferative disorders. But what that effectively means is that we can count cancer cells. And there are 2 primary sources of revenue for the MRD business. The first is the clonoSEQ test offered to clinicians. And the second is the clonoSEQ assay offered to pharmaceutical companies. In Immune Medicine, we also have 2 sources of opportunities, the first is in our pharma services business, which uses the immunoSEQ assay to deliver rich immune receptor data to pharmaceutical companies in their clinical trials, and the second is using our own data to develop therapeutics using immune receptors. We'll get started with MRD. I want to bring to life a real-world patient story so you can understand how minimum residual disease is used in the real world. Karen Thomas is an extraordinary one. She was diagnosed with multiple myeloma 12 years ago. She was put on a course of chemotherapy -- after a transplant she was put on chemotherapy and maintenance therapy for 10 years. This had debilitating side effects in particular, really bad gastrointestinal issues. After her doctor was convinced that her MRD -- that her cancer was gone, he gave her the clonoSEQ test to determine her MRD status. At a molecular level, the clonoSEQ MRD test determined that she no longer had cancer remaining in her body. Using this information, her clinician had the confidence to take her off maintenance therapy. And she is leading a very full and active life. In fact, right before the break, she just came to Adaptive and did a fireside chat, hugged every single employee in our company essentially, there wasn't a [indiscernible] in the room. It was pretty impactful. ClonoSEQ is at the epicenter of transforming care for lymphoid cancer. From a pharma perspective, pharmaceutical companies are using the clonoSEQ assay to expedite drugs in development using MRD status to get drugs approved quicker. From a provider standpoint, as I just mentioned, clinicians are using the information to make informed treatment decisions at each point along a patient's care continuum. This also has a benefit to payers. In the case that I just mentioned with Karen's story, she was on a course of maintenance therapy that costs $130,000 a year, not only did the payers benefit from taking her off that therapy, we're also no longer treating the side effects. But how does the test work? MRD is a very sensitive assessment of a patient's tumor burden. We track the disease-specific DNA sequences that are associated with each cancer cell. So effectively, we can count cancer cells after treatment. And we can monitor those changes in tumor burden at each point along the patient's care journey. It is highly prognostic of outcome. It is widely recognized as the gold standard in MRD and heme malignancies. It is highly sensitive to 10 to the minus 6. What that means in real-world terms is that we can track 1 malignant cancer cell in every 1 million healthy cells. This is the only FDA-approved test in MRD in heme malignancies. It is one of the most widely clinically validated diagnostic test in history. There are over 150 publications and currently there are over 100 active trials going on using clonoSEQ. It's also paid for by insurance. We have 260 million covered lives. It is in all the NCCN guidelines and the NCCN Cancer Centers, 33 out of 33 are using clonoSEQ in their centers. Importantly, as I mentioned, it is the test of choice for pharmaceutical companies that are developing heme malignancy drugs that our test applies to. We have over 60 pharma partners and are in close to 200 active clinical trials. This business is growing. We have revenue growth quarter after quarter, year after year, but there is a long ramp of growth ahead of us. We're only 5% penetrated in cancer patients in the United States on a clinical testing basis. We're only 21% penetrated on an overall pharma basis. I had the opportunity to do a 3-hour meeting with our Head of MRD and our field team -- field team leadership on Friday, who outlined the strategies. We have a very good team in place. And -- but remember, we just doubled the size of the field team last year. So we -- the setup is good for us to be able to penetrate this long ramp ahead of us. How we're going to do it is a 3-pronged strategy. The first is, we're going to increase blood-based testing. The second is we're going to expand into the recently launched category of non-Hodgkin's lymphoma. The third is, we're going to increase the number of tests done per patient by demonstrating clinical utility in multiple studies. In parallel, there's a lot of blocking and tackling that we need to do. We need to enhance the user experience. We're doing this through an EPIC integration. We need to increase our average selling price. We need to expand our coverage so that we have more covered lives under contract, and we need to optimize our sales force. I want to double-click on each one of these initiatives. First, blood-based testing. Only 30% of clonoSEQ test today are done in the blood. Why is this so important to do blood-based testing. #1, obviously, it's more convenient to get a blood test and also it's a lot less painful to patients, much less invasive. The second reason that's really important is if you look at one of the biggest growth areas for Adaptive, it's in the community setting. And in the community, they're not set up to do bone marrow. They're set up to do blood tests, like everyone else is. In order to do this, we have 9 ongoing studies and a couple of them will read out just this year. Second, increase and expand in non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, 50% of patients that our clonoSEQ test applies to are in the category of this broad basket called non-Hodgkin's lymphoma. Of that 50%, 30% of them are in diffuse large B-cell lymphoma, or DLBCL. It's worth noting that we already have launched a test in a CLIA setting, and it's also worth noting that we received Medicare coverage for DLBCL last year. We are going to pursue FDA approval, it's not necessary that we do this for CLIA test, but we are going to do this, this year. We're going to submit. The reason for that is twofold. One, we think it will help with guideline inclusion. The second, as I mentioned, our pharmaceutical partners who we become a very trusted partner, they want an FDA-approved test. So that's why we're going to move into the FDA. The third area is increasing the number of time points tested per patient through continuing to generate the clinical evidence. I'm going to highlight a study that I think is interesting because it really shows kind of 2 sides of the coin of how MRD is used in a real-world practice setting. This is a study done at UCSF investigator-sponsored trial by Martinez Lopez. It was published in the Journal of Hematology & Oncology. On the left side, in the graph that you see, what it shows that if a patient is MRD positive, meaning we can detect an increasing tumor burden in that patient and the clinician escalates therapy, mean we give a higher dose of therapy. It leads to a better outcome as measured by progression-free survival. On the right side, this is the case that we highlighted with Karen Thomas, this is therapy discontinuation. What this shows, if a patient is MRD negative, meaning we can't detect the patient at a very sensitive molecular level. They are MRD negative, no cancer left. We pull -- the doctor pulls a patient off of maintenance therapy, there is no difference in progression-free survival. My belief, and I think we're going to see that actually, the progression-free survival is actually going to be better because they no longer have debilitating side effects, which we mentioned. So I'm not going to walk through these one by one. But there are a lot of key milestones and readouts coming in 2023. I guess I'll highlight again, the EPIC integration, I think it's going to be very, very important for a doctor to be able to order directly from the EHR to order a clonoSEQ test. I'll also highlight in the blood-based readouts in multi myeloma, I think, will be really important as well. So now that I've covered MRD, I'd like to turn our focus over to the Immune Medicine segment of the business. Our Immune Medicine platform, sequences, maps, pairs and characterizes immune receptors at scale to deliver rich information to pharmaceutical companies in clinical trials and for Adaptive to use for drug development. I'm going to briefly touch on our Pharma Services business, and then I'll spend the bulk of my time in Immune Medicine talking about our drug discovery efforts. In Pharma Services, it's worth noting that this business is growing 20% year-over-year, and we believe has a sustainable growth profile in front of us. What we do is, we deliver data to pharma companies to inform biomarkers of response, both from early research and development all the way up through regulated studies. And this is across autoimmune disorders, infectious diseases, oncology and neurological disorders. So basically, any drug that's being in developed, if you want to look at the immune repertoire, the T cell receptor or B-cell receptor profile and how the changes are and how their drug is impacting a patient in their trial, they would use this immunoSEQ profiling service to be able to do that. Second, our efforts in drug discovery, I believe, represents one of the largest growth opportunities for Adaptive. And it's actually really simple. We have the unique ability to validate novel disease-specific drug targets using our platform. And then once we find these unique and differentiated disease-specific targets we can find immune receptors as therapeutics against those targets, both T cell receptors and antibodies. Our drug discovery efforts are focused in 2 areas: in cancer and in autoimmune disorders. Let's get started with cancer in which we have really our marquee partnership with Genentech. It's an exclusive partnership in cell therapy directed against neoantigens in solid tumors. There's 2 strategies that we're primarily focused on. One is a shared product strategy, and the second is a private product strategy. Once we identify, validate and characterize these very specific targets, we can then find and validate T cell receptors against -- in the shared program against neoantigens that are shared amongst patients. Second, in our private product program, we can find T cell receptors against tumor-specific mutations for each patient and develop a truly personalized therapeutic. The partnership with Genentech is progressing well. We are on track to deliver 3 fully characterized data packages on the shared program this year. Genentech has already -- sorry, last year, they've been delivered. Genentech has selected the first to move forward to an IND, so that we can speed to the clinic. In the private product program, we have shown that we can find patient-specific T cell receptors now in a 100 patients against patient-specific tumor mutations. And we've developed a full end-to-end prototype to be able to deliver these T cell receptors over to Genentech when their job then, both in the sharing and private program is to take these T cell receptors, manufacture them, expand them, and deliver them back to the patient. Not only are we excited about this, Genentech is talking about it as well. So this just came out Thursday in advance of JPMorgan. They published an article called New Frontiers of Cell Therapy and highlighted T-cell therapies targeting neoantigens on tumor cells. Specifically, and we've been talking about this, Genentech used Adaptive as the anchor to build their entire cell therapy program, and it says working with Adaptive -- on Readers, working with Adaptive Biotechnology to advance personalized cell therapies for cancer through pioneering technology that decodes the immune system at unprecedented scale. So this is moving along great. The second area of focus where we're going to leverage our platform technology is in the autoimmune space. More specifically, we're focused on 2 disease areas of multiple sclerosis and irritable bowel disease, or IBD. The problem, as you know, with autoimmune disease disorders is there really aren't targeted therapies, right? Most of the -- and some of the highest selling drugs in the world are really blunt instruments right? And it's really interesting because we believe that we have a unique ability to discover disease-specific targets. More importantly, once we have identified these targets -- we have 2 platforms. One is the T cell platform, which I just mentioned with Genentech. And the other is an antibody platform that we developed during COVID to develop clinically validated assets against these targets. And whether we partner on these or move them further along ourselves. It depends on the data, it depends on the target, it depends on the mechanism of action. But this is an area that we are very focused on. And we expect to have some preclinical data later this year to make some really interesting go/no-go decisions. Again, in Immune Medicine, just to kind of wrap up the category. We're focused on 2 areas: our Genentech collaboration, which we can -- we're looking to speed to the clinic with our lead shared product candidate, and we're looking to complete our private product prototype so that we can transition to IND readiness for the private product. In the autoimmune pipeline, I think we're going to be able to be in a position to deliver some really interesting proof points over the course of the year to say that we can do what we said and really uncover disease-specific targets and then find assets against them. I will again reiterate that it's a really nice kind of business that our Pharma Services is able to kind of [ play ] this with a 20% year-over-year growth. Before I turn it back over to Julia for our Q&A, I do want to highlight the very strong financial position that Adaptive is in. We're on track to deliver a revenue CAGR between 2022 and 2027 between 20% and 30%. At the same time, we're managing our operating expenses, we're reducing them. So that means our lines are going to cross with an adjusted EBITDA positivity in 2025 and a cash flow breakeven in 2026. Importantly, though, we have the cash through the non-dilutive fundraising that we did to be able to get there and bridge to profitability without raising additional equity capital. So with that, I'm going to leave you with 3 key takeaways. The first, we are the gold standard in MRD testing, and there is a long path ahead of us for growth. #2, we have differentiated capabilities to use our platform to discover and develop immune receptors as therapeutics against novel disease targets. And #3, we are well capitalized with a clear path to profitability to truly lead in this category of Immune Medicine. So I appreciate your time today. Look forward to the Q&A. I'd like to invite my team up for Q&A.

Unknown Analyst

analyst
#3

All right. Thank you, Chad, for the great presentation. I can get a startup, but for the audience, if you have a question, feel free to raise your hand. There's a mic in the room, and you can also submit it through the digital conference book. So I can get us started. Maybe you guys can, any qualitative comments update you can share regarding cloud clinical volume trended in 4Q and speak to your level of confidence in delivering that 50% clinical volume growth in this year?

Chad Robins

executive
#4

Yes. Yes. I mean I think a quick introduction. This is Nitin who is head of our MRD business.

Nitin Sood

executive
#5

Yes, we haven't released our Q4 numbers. But I think overall, the business is looking really good for the MRD platform. Yes, I'm feeling really bullish also about 2023, I think we expect about 50% growth in 2023 in volumes. And then we also expect ASP growth here in the single-digit range in '23. And there's lots of catalysts. So you heard Chad talk about them, increased penetration in the community, increased usage in blood and then expansion into new indications like DLBCL.

Unknown Analyst

analyst
#6

Great. So you mentioned a few drivers, DLBCL, EPIC integration, continued penetration in community setting and increased utilization per physician. Curious, among all these different drivers, which one is the biggest that's currently embedded in your '23 outlook? And what can represent upside to your outlook?

Nitin Sood

executive
#7

Yes. I think the biggest driver overall for the business is our penetration overall is pretty low, both in the academic setting and the community setting. Even in the academic setting where you have 32 worlds, 32 NCCN cancer centers use clonoSEQ, we have about sort of 12%, 13% penetration. So there's a lot of room for us to grow in the academic setting. And in the community setting, our penetration is sub-5%. This year, we launched -- we were able to activate 180 new community accounts. So the combination of those 2 will drive growth.

Unknown Attendee

attendee
#8

We've got a lot of you guys out there as well.

Nitin Sood

executive
#9

I was trying to stay away from it.

Chad Robins

executive
#10

Now go right into that. Okay. testing.

Nitin Sood

executive
#11

Yes. So I think the single biggest driver is just increasing penetration using our sales team to execute both on the community side as well as on the academic side.

Unknown Analyst

analyst
#12

Great. Now thinking about MRD pharma, there is a great opportunity to use clonoSEQ more as primary endpoints in those clinical trials. How should we think about the progress and the pipeline of your efforts in pushing for that more primary end adoption?

Nitin Sood

executive
#13

Yes. I think first, we have 6 trials going on right now where we're the primary endpoint. One of those trials is likely to read out this year. So that will be a very solid demonstration that MRD or clonoSEQ being used as a primary endpoint can be used for successful approval of a drug program. And alongside with that, a lot of things are going on right now. A lot of our physicians are using the evidence that we have generated across these 150 published studies to encourage the FDA to support the use of clonoSEQ as a primary end point. Pharma companies are talking to the FDA. And we have 100 other studies that will really demonstrate how clonoSEQ is prognostic or indicative of the status of the disease. So all of those combined will really drive more and more usage of NGS MRD and clonoSEQ as a primary endpoint in lymphoid cancers. And then there's also a market trend that's going on that's helping us, the multiple myeloma drug space is highly competitive. There's a lot of new drugs that are under development. And these drugs are very efficacious and using OS or another endpoint to get drug approval is going to take multiple years. So drug companies want to come off the drug fast, clonoSEQ is very solid option for them.

Unknown Analyst

analyst
#14

Great. Sticking with MRD. In terms of competition, curious, other than traditional flow cytometry that you're looking to displace, what about the competitive landscape in terms of maybe other emerging players that also offer MRD testing based on ctDNA. What do you think differentiates Adaptive's technology versus them? And how confident are you in continuing to build your market share from here?

Nitin Sood

executive
#15

Yes. So I think we're very confident about our technology. First of all, starting with sensitivity, we are the most sensitive test we can detect 1 cancer cell in the background of 1 million normal cells, which is unmatched, including by ctDNA companies. And then on top of that, we have an incredible lead both in terms of reimbursement and clinical evidence demonstrating clinical utility -- and many of these studies take multiple years. So we have a multiyear lead. And then lastly, I would say, we're embedded in the clinical pathways of many -- of all these major cancer centers. And then finally, I would say one more point, actually, we're also the product of choice in pharma companies. So a lot of new drugs are being approved using clonoSEQ as an evidence. So a combination of all of that makes me pretty confident that we're ahead in terms of competition. I think there is some emerging competition in DLBCL on the ctDNA side. But again, there, we have a lot of evidence, and we're the only ctDNA test in DLBCL that has insurance covered [ maybe ] Medicare coverage. So very strong position competitively.

Unknown Analyst

analyst
#16

Excellent. Any questions from the audience on MRD before we move on to Immune Medicine. All right. Let's move on to Immune Medicine, which is -- I know you're excited about the long-term potential of the franchise. So the current use of TCR is mostly in RUO settings. And you've noted that more validation is kind of the key hurdle you need to overcome for it to be utilized in more larger-scale studies. So help us think through the underlying progress you guys are making? What kind of bars or near-term milestones can we watch out for over the near term?

Chad Robins

executive
#17

Sharon Benzeno, who leads Adaptive Immune Medicine business.

Sharon Benzeno

executive
#18

Yes, thanks for the question. So I would answer in 2 ways. I think there's a lot of room for continued growth and penetration in the research use only given, as Chad highlighted, the rich immune receptor data we deliver that helps inform biomarker clinical trials across really 4 major therapeutic areas: oncology, infectious disease, autoimmunity as well as neurodegenerative disease that's growing. In addition to that and on top of it, what we're aiming to do is absolutely, increased validation of specific application of the T cell assay, for example, in the cell therapy space. So last year, in March, the FDA issued guidance that explicitly indicated using TCR sequencing. We are the preferred partner to more than 200 pharma biotech companies. And in the cell therapy space alone, there's 2,000 programs ongoing. So we're really looking to maximize in that area. As one area to validate and penetrate further into regulated clinical programs.

Unknown Analyst

analyst
#19

Awesome. How about your progress in expanding TCR adoption for more indications beyond oncology? What are kind of some of the progresses you can highlight?

Sharon Benzeno

executive
#20

Yes. So -- we have a lot of also runway to go. In oncology, we're the most penetrated. Our portfolio is made up of about 35% oncology clinical programs. And we are mostly penetrated in Phase II -- Phase I and Phase II trials. So about 40% of the portfolio is Phase II, Phase III smaller penetration in Phase III trials. And so we're looking to scale into autoimmune disorders, which is very much in line with our focus on the drug discovery side, as well as we see a lot of growth in the infectious disease programs, RSV. We had mentioned and announced our program with Janssen that continues to grow in the Phase III pivotal trials, as well as neurodegenerative diseases like MS, IBD, Celiac programs, et cetera.

Unknown Analyst

analyst
#21

Wonderful. Turning to T-Detect. You've recently pivoted the strategy to more pharma partnership, can you give us any update on -- are you getting any early signs of indications of interest from biopharma and how the progress is going?

Sharon Benzeno

executive
#22

Yes. So last summer, we did announce that we would delay commercialization of T-Detect as a clinical test and really redeploy a lot of the signals that we're still actively generating with our pharma partners. And so in our focus, be it in IBD, for example, that's made up of Crohn's and ulcerative colitis. There are a number of programs with pharma companies that we're pursuing as well as multiple sclerosis. So we're invested and Harlan's team is really scaling efforts to continue to get to that signal. And the long-term strategy and even midterm is to apply the T cell signatures in MS and IBD to inform biomarker applications and perhaps even a diagnostic, you can imagine, CDx or complementary Dx opportunities with our pharma partners.

Unknown Analyst

analyst
#23

Can you help us think about the time line of that signal generation? And like now that you have the ability to partner with pharma and tapping to potentially more samples. Does that potentially accelerate the process? And how should we think about just a time line for that signal generation?

Chad Robins

executive
#24

Sure. So in terms of -- thank you. In terms of the -- where we are with the signals, I think in multiple indications, we already have signals that have value to pharma. So we're presently in sort of high-level discussions with multiple different signals. In terms of improving those signals as we go, absolutely. I think the biggest key for us in the autoimmune space, in particular, the like ground truth, the labels that we get aren't like -- for example, if we're giving a cohort of 100 people that are supposedly have MS, it's never 100 people that really have MS. So separating out who actually has a [indiscernible] and pharma companies do a great job of that because it's crucial to their drug success to really validate that. So I think there will be a lot of benefit to being on an increasing number of drug -- drug trials, especially with their really serious inclusion criteria, so a critical criteria.

Unknown Analyst

analyst
#25

Got it. So say you in a relatively short time frame, you do generate a strong signal or maybe even multiple compelling signals. How would you go about prioritizing or choosing which indications are signals to take to the next level? How -- and in terms of choosing the partnership or co-development model, what factors would you consider? And what would make sense from like a resource intensity or a risk management perspective?

Unknown Executive

executive
#26

So I think one of the things we're discovering is that -- and especially in the autoimmune disease, where the T cells themselves are causing -- causative agents of the disease that in one -- in some ways, we think there's going to be substantially a higher value in letting the T cells point out what it is that the disease actually is, what's being targeted by disease and therefore, what are the potential drug targets moving forward. So -- so we're combining our biomarker discovery with our therapeutics generation program. And we're actually learning at quite a rapid rate and are pretty excited about it. So I don't know that for the meantime, we're going to be commercializing these products beyond biomarkers for pharma that we're going to -- down the road, I think we -- I don't -- Sharon could probably answer this, but down the road, we'll certainly when they get good enough, we'll probably -- and have enough validation, we'll think about making them clinical diagnostic products. But in the meantime, we're pretty excited about the potential is on both biomarkers and then drug target discovery engines as well as creating assets against those targets.

Chad Robins

executive
#27

And in terms of prioritization, once we have a validated target, for example, in autoimmune -- it really depends on what that target is and then how we go after it. So -- and that would lead to whether we partner or whether we decide to take that candidate or asset in-house. For example, if it's an autoimmune target, and it's an upregulated -- if we're going T cell therapy, and we would most likely partner because we -- we don't want to go kind of be in the kind of T cell therapy business in the autoimmune other than kind of finding the targets and the T cell receptors. However, if it was an antibody therapeutic that may be a very different story, where we may decide that we want to -- we're going to deploy our resources to develop that target -- excuse me, that candidate on our own.

Unknown Analyst

analyst
#28

Great. In terms of drug discovery, I know there's a lot of activity besides the Genentech deal as well. So can you maybe give us some color on how the pipeline is looking like at this point? What indications look the most promising? And how should we think about potential deal sizes, deal structures or economics that could look similar to or different from the Genentech deal?

Chad Robins

executive
#29

I'm going to go kind of broad for a minute and then -- and somewhat punt on the question. I don't think we're in a position yet to discuss kind of the development pipeline on our deal flow. But if you look at kind of the overall revenue profile of Adaptive, which came in at kind of 53, which will come and what we've kind of guided to, call it, low 50s in Immune Medicine and high 40s in the MRD. Over the next couple of years, MRD will wind up kind of usurping that and be a higher portion of our overall revenue pie. And then in the out years of our long-range plan, what you'll see is the Immune Medicine business will wind up outstripping that in terms of kind of the revenue growth and profile. The reason is because of the deals -- 2 things. One is that the amortization of the Genentech upfront which we have about $90 or so million left, that's starting to burn down, and it will be replaced with kind of a high-quality revenue stream of the milestones and the royalties along with other drug development opportunities that will wind up making the Immune Medicine kind of a larger percentage of little pie. Of that, some of those deals we're working on now and will wind up kind of playing out over the next several years.

Unknown Analyst

analyst
#30

Cool. For your proprietary development efforts, so 3 areas, TCR antibody and target discovery. Any thoughts you can share on how you would prioritize among the 3 areas? And are there any differences in terms of the relative speed or difficulty of developing each category?

Chad Robins

executive
#31

I'll just say one -- just a little correction. So the -- in terms of the product candidates or assets that would be on the T cell or antibody side, the targets, while may be valuable and may be partnerable, I think would be in a different category than the candidates. Sharon, do you want to?

Sharon Benzeno

executive
#32

Yes, we are prioritizing a novel target discovery in autoimmunity, as Chad highlighted. And based on that target, the beauty is we've built out the ability to then go after a TCR as a therapeutic or an antibody. So they're interrelated. The sequential is finding the target and then we're off to the races in terms of the appropriate therapeutic modality based on that target.

Unknown Analyst

analyst
#33

Awesome. Any questions from the audience? All right. Yes.

Unknown Attendee

attendee
#34

You laid out the [indiscernible] for the next 5 years and revenue targets like you have set for yourself. So you guys have certainly spoken about what are the tailwinds which are going to help you or your advantages that you guys have on your side. What could be some of the challenges that could be [indiscernible]?

Chad Robins

executive
#35

Yes. So the revenue range that was laid out was 20% to 30%. Milestones will play a big role in terms of whether we end up at the high end or the low end. We do have a binary event coming up with Genentech in terms of the IND filing, right? So that could add some risk. . We're pretty sheltered from a macro perspective. The one thing we're keeping an eye on is the IRA, right? There's a lot of noise around pharma budgets and pipelines and what the inflation Reduction Act could imply. We're not seeing it now, but it's something we're going to keep an eye on. As we guide, and we'll do that in mid-February for this year. We're also going to be a little bit more conservative around milestones. So we'll kind of derisk those a little bit more than we historically have. But yes, I'd say the big swing factors would be the Genentech IND and then maybe a little bit of budgetary pressure on pharma in the near term.

Unknown Analyst

analyst
#36

In terms of cost reduction, I'll just continue to pull in Tycho for remaining minutes. You noticed opportunity to potentially migrate from NextSeq 550 to NovaSeq to further reduce your COGS, and I think there's -- could be looking at opportunity of single-digit left to your gross margin? Have you started that process? And how should we think about the time line?

Tycho Peterson

executive
#37

Yes. So we're using the older NextSeq as you highlighted. We're doing a technical evaluation around pattern flow cells for NovaSeq, right? So we've got to make sure our assay is compatible. We're early in the queue with Illumina to send them some samples this spring, I think by March, maybe to see if it -- how it runs on the new X. Obviously, that has a lot of appeal in terms of room temperature-stable reagents, 2 independent flow cells. So if we're compatible with that, that could be a good upgrade path for us. And then there are a lot of other levers around margins. We're looking at DNA extraction costs, data storage costs. We've talked publicly about real estate. And we've kind of gone through the entire company. There's no sacred cow. So we're looking at G&A, we're looking at a lot of different things, not just kind of workflow in the lab but R&D as well, how we prioritize products and make sure that everything we do has a good path to either revenue or margins or ideally both.

Unknown Analyst

analyst
#38

Awesome. With that, we're on time. So thank you, everyone, for joining.

Chad Robins

executive
#39

Thank you.

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