Advanced Info Service Public Company Limited (ADVANC) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

So the AIS session will be divided into 3 parts. First, we'll present on our strategic priority by Mr. Somchai. Then we'll hear from key priorities on -- in post COVID-19 by Mr. Hui Weng Cheong, who is our President. And the last, we will be ending with a Q&A with -- from our 3 executives. So -- and the second session will be delivered in English. You can hear the original by closing the Interpretation mode. [Operator Instructions] So I will read your questions for you to the executives in the Q&A portion. First, let's hear our strategic priorities from Mr. Somchai.

So very good afternoon, analysts and investors. So this is our first time that we are meeting through videoconference platform. So we're not going to talk a lot about performance or the numbers. And all the investors may also hear because we have published that last week. So we're going to spend this time -- Mr. Hui and I will provide a short brief on the overall on the industry and the strategies that we have in 2020 on how we are going about our business from now on. We'll begin with the slide that AIS is actually an organization. On the 1st of October, we are entering our 30th year, 30th anniversary. So all through our 20, 30 years in business, what we are facing right now is that we are working under the environment which is called this limited resources -- limited spectrum. We only have 20 -- 17.5 megahertz. Comparing the competitive, they have 70 megahertz. But with that scenario, with limited resources but with our engineering capacity and our commitment and going through with the business, we still maintain our position as leaders. So the first 25 years, we have been through the hardship, challenges from transitioning, that transition mode with the NBTC licenses. And here, right now, currently, we are now -- the AIS is actually ready more than ever from last year to this year. So in 2020, after we have done through the auction of 2,600 -- 700 and 26,000 in February, we would like to announce today that we have -- we are over through our hardships with that limited resources environment, and we will remain a leader and we are ready more than ever in the coming 5G era. But unfortunately, there was a COVID disruption. So with all those reasons -- but I -- we believe that for this -- from this year onwards, that we have all the spectrum which will be the important tool to go about our business. And we have -- more than ever before with our strong brand perception in the market, it's going take us to be at the leader level continue on. However, there are challenges -- other challenges that persist, whether it's strong competition and the new players who have entered the market, the OTT player that have entered -- and seeking that market share. But we are -- we'll tirelessly continue to adapt to this new environment. So I'd like to discuss some of the -- what we are planning in 2020. But there was a hiccup during the COVID-19 situation, as you may all aware. So in the last part of the first quarter, that severely affected all industries and the telecommunication, of course. And I do believe that in the beginning, the impact on us is that the channel we -- the market has been closed, and we do not receive stable income or revenue from tourists' SIM cards, and we have lost that -- like 100% loss on that. Well -- so even though we are able to provide service, there's more resources. But considering the current economic situation, the previous pricing might be difficult. So we also have NBTC projects, providing free data service. Even though we get some compensation, it still doesn't make up for what we are -- have lost. So this is actually the COVID impact and -- which has disrupted us. So -- but however this disruption, I still -- I think it's a lot less than other industry. And after -- and there's the recession that occur because of COVID-19. We have announced that second half, it's actually a recovery period, and we will continue to grow strongly in the future, in next year or the couple of years. So the second -- the post COVID that we see is that in telecommunication industry, there's a lot of awareness and quick awareness on technology because the data usage of customers have grown exponentially and -- from the previously like 20%, 30% growth, have exponentially grow much more. So people have adapted so fast to digitalization. And you can see that people have shifted to work from home, to learning from that have shifted the consumers' behavior and have transformed the people into this digitalization. So our business will continue -- will come back strong and with a strong recovery. So if we can actually -- if the competitiveness is not as fierce or strong, and we'll have a lot of growth coming our way. Another factor is the economy. But overall, we are positive. After the third stage of COVID, we think we're going to continue to grow. And our prior investment in 5G will be able to, for us, to yield a lot on digitalization. So this is the phases -- or the 3 phases of the plan, and we have -- you may also be aware that we are going to grow and recover in the very near future. So I'd like to discuss a little bit of our strategy this year. So every time we meet you, we always focus on these 3 strategies. First is we focus on our core business. So the mobile. We are going to continue to strengthen this continuously. In 2020, you'll see that we are going to invest strongly in 5G, and we will continue to maintain the 5G leadership. So why we are in a hurry in this? We -- I have explained a lot of times that investing in 5G of AIS, it's something that is going to be really worth it on 3 aspects. First is we are going to expand our capacity from our regular customers. We won't expand on 4G. The 5G, 2,600, it's -- will enable 4G to 2,600. And 60% of the various users using 4G can use 4G 2,600. So investing in 5G technology will enable us to have this great brand perception, capturing this new generation of users and those people using data usage. And this is actually to -- important in strength our brand. The third point is with the COVID-19 situation, the digitalization and data usage and 5G is going to be expedited. And once it's taking off, AIS will be able to grab this opportunity. And -- but with the existing capacity that we have, they -- we'll be at a better position than our competitors. So we want to be best-in-class network in terms of customers and enterprise. The second strategic priority is the growth engine that's going to generate a revenue, is fixed broadband and enterprise. And this year, we have really strengthened our fixed broadband. And we have about 1 million sub, and we wanted new sub which is growing, be at par or really close to our competitor or the majority of the market shares. The -- next, I want to talk about the enterprise because post COVID, the enterprise segment has grown exponentially as well with the introduction of 5G. We are discussing expanding on cloud and data center. This is going to provide opportunity for us. Another important point aside from the core business, the new source of -- which is the new revenue, which is the digital platform and digital service whether on video, mobile and money. In 2020, we don't have to aim so far. From the COVID situation, the digitalization will build a lot of work whether it's on e-channel. We can -- the conduct sales through online more than ever before. We can increase sales from digitalization and reduce our costs exponentially. So aside from the digital platform for other people, we want to use this digitalization opportunity to enhance what we do internally. So all in all, it's actually a framework that I want to introduce to you, to analysts and investors, to see what we are going and the direction in 2020. And let's give the floor to Hui Weng Cheong on what we can do on these 3 priorities that I've mentioned.

Exploring dynamic spectrum, sharing data in this year. THB 30,000 and above. We expect the handsets and price to come down probably next year. In fact, by the fourth quarter of this year, some of the Chinese handsets will be available around the range of THB 20,000. Currently, we have already coverage in 77 cities. By end of August, in fact, we should have 51% coverage in Bangkok and 59% in EEC. Our implementation of the 5G will be completed by end August and early September. Number of cell sites, currently 4,000. Target is 4,650 over, I mentioned earlier 4G 2,600 utilization. Today, with 60% of our handsets have -- supporting 2,600 on 4G, we have about 20% of our 4G traffic already offloaded to the 2,600 network. The center portion shows the number of locations spread throughout Bangkok, metropolitan as well as the upcountry. So these are the sites in the city area as well as in shopping center and our AIS shops. On the right-hand side shows the areas where we have coverage targeting largely on the early adopters. Now for the 5G consumer use cases, our plan is to enable customers to have more value and even the better experience in 5G. On the left, you show -- is some of the current thinking on how we'll be pricing 5G. Customers will be able to use the 4G as existing. But if we top up, they'll be able to use 5G plus extra data. And also for the contents, there'll be AR -- special AR/VR content for our build AIS PLAY itself. So customers will have to pay a little bit more to enjoy the full immersive experience. So we expect uplift of about 5% to 10% in terms of ARPU. Our FWA we have launched, CPEs are available, and the price plan is actually very competitive. As compared to the fiber EDS service, this is about 30% cheaper on a like-for-like basis. 5G content, we are currently engaging several companies to create content. I think in Monday of this week, we have actually collaborated with Nadao to create VR/AR contents. And we also have just launched our AR/VR studio where we're working with the Tourism Authority of Thailand to bring more VR original content, especially in areas which are rather remote but which are very beautiful. So we are bringing such places for the enjoyment of customers who are staying at home. So health and wellness, yoga, pilates. 5G gaming, we have just launched the e-studio gaming early this month. And also for the 5G, last -- we use 5G to explore opening up a virtual expo. We hope that this will be an ongoing event perhaps every month to enable customers to have the full scale of an expo without having to actually physically be present. For the enterprise, one of the early use cases is FWA. And as I mentioned, we have launched it late last month. So FWA for enterprise provides a lot of benefits in terms of, for example, easy installation. You do not have to have the right-of-way into a building, which is sometime may take a longer time. And thirdly, so it allows portability, allowing a customer -- our corporate customers to move the FWA location as when they want. For example, when they having a outdoor booth. Revenue model is on a monthly recurring basis, more similar to the fiber EDS. On the right-hand side, we're showing the diagram of the new enterprise use cases, especially with the MEC, the multi-access Edge computing. In a normal situation, computing is done right at the back end on the Internet server. With the MEC, the computing power and the storage is actually moved a lot closer to the customer, allowing computing to be done faster and also with very low latency, especially for gaming, and also in cases where the enterprise use cases requires ultra-low latencies such as for remote monitoring of vehicles, remote control vehicles and also for office automation. The use cases are varied, from smart factory solutions to fiber network. MEC, together with 5G SA, allows a whole host of various combinations, meeting the needs of the enterprise customer. Next, on diversifying revenue source and growth driver. We have started several discussions, in fact, with WHA and SAHA late last month. We have formed a JV. AMATA, we had done that 2, 3 month -- 2, 3 years ago. And recently, we have cemented our collaboration by looking at additional services and applications using 5G for industrial use cases. For the diversification of revenue in the enterprise, we call it CCII: cloud cybersecurity, IoT as (sic) [ and ] ICT solutions. We'll be leveraging the AIS strength to grow the consumer as well as the digital platform. For the video, we'll be adding -- embedding the AR/VR into our AIS play. And recently, we have also put the AIS application on the smart TV -- Samsung Smart TV. Games, we have announced the JV with Singtel, and we also launched the AIS eSport Studio. For digital marketing, we have a product called THAN which allows thematic -- programmatic advertising through about 100 websites not only for monetization, but it also allows our corporate customers to take advantage of the additional VAS that we have. For the online services, we have actually evolved from physical channel more into digital. We have a different channel mix. We have recently relaunched our my AIS. In fact, last Friday is a new look and which is supposed to be a lot more efficient and a lot faster and with several other new enhanced services. Currently, we have about 5.3 million active users; quarterly, about 7.5 million. We are doing all the different Es. For example, eBill, eReceipt and ePayment. We started about 2 years ago. Today, we have 60% of our total bills are on eBill; eReceipt, 80%. And for ePayment, for the postpaid, 75% of transactions are done via the ePayments services. For the AI-enabled services, we have 79% of the nonvoice contacts are handled by AI, and the satisfaction is about 92%. Obviously, all this will help the company to improve the cost efficiency with -- as well as to improve the use of a digital channel to be more closer and have better engagement with our customers. With the COVID itself, it in fact accelerates a lot of the processes to be more online. So we have actually transferred some of our physical channels onto online. And by October this year, we will be launching a new omnichannel for our customers. You see on the right that the improved online sales since the COVID for the handset sales are about 5.9% and the prepaid -- postpaid acquisition, about 13%. So all this will help us to actually provide a better level of service to our customers as well as to improve the customers' experience and customer engagement. We also announced that we have been working on a project on data analytics, collecting customers' profile using what we terms as Customer 360. This allow us to look at a customer from a holistic point of view, from 360 degree, from the way that they engage themselves onto the Internet, the way they use and also the network infrastructure and the quality of services that they can get out of the network. So we have created persona, about 20 of them, categorizing the different type of customers and their usage in order for us to have a better idea of the general usage pattern and how we can actually tailor some of the offers targeting each of the persona. We've first done a MICE location to help us to improve the service and offering, especially on the network itself. Customer-level view I mentioned earlier for -- in -- to allow us to have a single customer view for better customer service design. C360 will also allow us to create better value and proposition, which allow us to improve sales, reduce churn, increase ARPU for upselling and cross-selling and also improving the customer engagement. The next stage that we'll be working on on Customer 360 is on the creating a platform and strategy for data monetization. So looking at the different persona and the usage pattern, the available data that can be harnessed anonymously for value added for some of our third-party enterprise customers. So we also have marketing analytics. And also, the SoC allows us to track the quality of the network and allow us to use it in order to optimize the network so that in areas where the value of the network from the customer point is high, we will actually use a lot more or focus a lot more of the capital investment in that, whereas in other areas in which value is not that high, we may reduce the network investment. So this one overall will allow us to improve on the network implementation. We're also using the digital processes to improve our cost efficiency. On the left is shown the prepaid commission over the past 1 year, first, second quarter last year to the second quarter this year. We have dropped the prepaid commission by about 50 basis point to -- year-on-year. On the shop staff, majority of our shop staff are now used for sale transactions rather than in service transaction. So today, the service transactions occupy about 20%. So we're trying to move most of the service transactions out of the shops by using kiosks and also on online service improvements. On the right shows the cost saving initiatives on digitizing processes for eBill, ePayment eReceipt. Last year, the savings were about THB 480 million, this year targeted to be about THB 600 million. For corporate, we're just starting to use the corporate business portal to help improve the service for our corporate customers. So we just started. The outcome is still to be seen for the rest of this year. So that ends my presentation for the 3 key priorities post COVID. Thank you.

Next on the next will be the Q&A session. For the first question is the question relating to the network. The 5G network is the open line -- is it the open line system? If yes, will there be any effect in relation to the CapEx and OpEx? This question is for Khun Hui.

We have also been looking at open RAN, but the thing about open RAN is also about all the other ancillary services. It's not just about the RAN itself but more also on the implementation, the services and also on how do you do the charging. So for us, we -- for the traditional infrastructure itself, this has evolved over many years. So the open RAN is still in its infancy stages. So we are looking at it. Until such time when it's become mature and the hardware are truly generic and the software are also open, we'll be able to see. But it's still too early to see whether -- to say whether open RAN will help improve the operating expenses.

During the 4G era, we invested about THB 4 million within 3 years after we received the license. So for this 5G era, the investment plan would be similar to the 4G era, especially the distribution of funds and investment? Also, the investment in 5G, would -- the return on invested capital of the company, would it reduce during the early stages of 5G auction? And will the return on investment will be recovered? And how many years would it take?

I will say that the investment for 4G and 5G are different. For the investment in 4G that we have invested about THB 40 million, we -- that is because we wanted to create or build a new network because during the first -- the past periods, we still have to hand over the operation to TOT. But for 4G, we have to reinvest to have our own devices and facilities. Most of the investment done in 5G is to ensure that we will have enough capacity and also adequate facilities for our operation and also that such investment should be compatible for the 4G that we have already invested as well. And now we're -- the investment will be done by considering the demand of customers and consumers. As we can see that -- from the presentation that we have already invested in and provide a service in 77 cities all over Bangkok, even though we may not really go into all the areas, but the provision of service -- of 5G service will be based on the demand of the consumers. For example, we may want to invest in the EEC area according to the requirements of the NBCT -- NBTC. That will also depend on partners that we have collaborated with whether it is the WHA, AMATA or SAHA Group. The next question is that when we invest in terms of the network whether it is 4G or 5G, it is the investment based on the necessity because we want to be the leader and we have to have the leadership position in terms of connectivity and network and also to provide the service according to the demand of consumers. What would be -- but in the long term, we do not think that the investment on the network will be monetized only for the basic infrastructures only, which is the voice and data services. That is why we have the midterm solution in terms of the enterprise clients. That's why we want to provide the CCII, which is cloud computing, cybersecurity, IoT and ICT. With those -- with these services, we can utilize the 4G and 5G infrastructures, and that can also create more value for us as well. And in terms of the digital service that we're trying to do, whether it is the video platform, the mobile money and so on and so forth, including the gaming and eSports, that is because we already have the infrastructures and facilities and we also have our client base. We have the data that is available and allow us to get to know our customers and consumers more and also enable us to tailor the product and services better to those clients. If we can achieve that, that can, well, create more value, well, so generate income for us as well. And that is the hope not only for the -- not only for AIS, but it is also the goal of the global telecom operators. And we do hope that if the -- there is a behavioral changes of consumers, if they embrace the technology even more, then we can -- it will be very beneficial for us. In terms of the return of investment, we cannot really say that -- when would the -- it will be return to normal. That will also depend on the factors, whether it is the midterm and long-term factors. And -- but I do believe that all the operators are facing the same challenges. So during 4G that we are aggressive on investment, so there are 2 factors. First is that we have our own asset. And secondly, I think that the 4G market was ready. So in having expanded network will enable us to be able to generate more revenue and faster revenue. And I think that 2 years, I think I -- we covered to 90% of the population, which is different, totally different from 5G policy because it's the beginning of the cycle. That's going to take a little momentum in order to build that handsets. And in the chart, you can say that it's mostly high-end handset for 5G. Next year, it's going to go to the mid-price handsets, and maybe it's going to take a year. So this is our policy. So investing in 5G. We were gradual investing, not different from the investment strategy in 4G. But why we will be -- begin on the investments? If we do invest, we -- of advantage in terms of business. The demand exists, but the demand actually occurs in some groups of the customers. So we want to serve that to our customers. Mainly, we see that -- these high-end clients and industrial clients, and we were going to -- they're going to benefit from the new application that's going to be used. And in investment, I think you have to see in 2 perspective. Because it's 5G, there's new spectrum introduced. And we are not going to investing a lot in network, and there's nothing to be worried about. And about 35,000 because we consider the economic situation as well as demand on 5G. Globally, about -- I think 35,000, we'll be able to accommodate that. But the [ IAC ] is -- we gained some spectrum. It's like an upfront investment. So we had a lot of capacity. But in the mid and long term, it's going to benefit us because we will not -- we have to worry about the resources because we have the most spectrum in the industry and we are going to be able to provide to ever-increasing clients and customers. So we have all the spectrum -- and all the spectrums, all the megahertz. And the benefit is we have all the frequencies and we are able to cover the areas, the various types of services. And in the future, it's going to save us on investment because we -- having that 700, it's going to cover a lot further. So -- because in the past, we had to erect a tower and we needed to increase. But with the 700, it's going to save us on the towers that we have to invest in. And with the 2,600 as well as 5G, we have increased our capacity tremendously. So we may not need to invest again in the future. Different from 4G, we had to increase. But 5G, we're going to get that return once we invest.

So the next question is, we want to hear on the business opportunity from digital business such as mobile advertising, mobile payment, well, big data or data analytics and how you can actually generate that extra revenue.

Well, actually, I think, like I said, that we want to gain 3 channels from 3 revenues. So core business, mobile and voice data. That's the main business. Then we are increasing on the second part, which already embarked on that, from broadband, enterprise that's expanding to CCII, and we're going to strengthen that by 5G. For digital service, we have long been discussing this, and we are hoping to add a value-added service from here. And in reality, the revenue here is going to be tremendous because we have the existing infrastructure and everyone is using digital technology and advertising and it has all been shifted to digital platform. Their offline is actually declining tremendously. So there's revenue to be gained from there. But -- however, it's not actually appearing to a telecommunications operator. It's occurring in OTT players or major OTT players. But we do have some hope definitely because we have a clear connection to our customers. We have enough data to work with. And the way I see it is that the customers utilizing our service, they're using Thai content. If we can enable this digital platform, this -- the revenue will actually flourish in this part. And this is what we hope. But we have not forecast or -- on the revenue that we're going to gain from this segment. But the simple guide that I can give you, that the revenue from the core business is about 85%, but the enterprise and fixed broadband is just 15%. And at the end of the day, we're trying to enhance the enterprise and fixed broadband to grow at least out -- to 25%, and we want to try to push on digitalization additionally to that. And I believe that 10% in 3 to 5 years, it's definitely possible, but all it -- at the end of the day, it's going to depend on consumers' behavior, the Thai consumers' behavior that's going to return to use the Thai platform depending on the content and whether the platform is ready as well. So I think there's a hope there to grow in this part. [Interpreted] To help the customers -- in fact, it's helping customers to understand whether certain products, for example, like the insurance can be amenable to them.

To the ROIC. So on the other hand, if we wait for the demand for -- in 2 years and then you do the investments, so I think it may be just collecting money from 4G. Maybe that's going to create more balance. So let me answer it this way. For us, AIS, we do have a lot of customers for our network. And as you can see, that the trend utilizing data has increased exponentially in the past -- in the recent period. So we want to maintain that quality of our service for our customers. So if you were to ask today whether we should invest on 5G, I think we have considered and deliberated that might not be the best decision because investing in 5G does not mean that it's going to be more expensive because in comparison to 4G, 5G may be a little bit like 30% to 50%, but we gained a lot like 3 to 4x the capacity and the life cycle as well. And the period of utilizing that equipment, it's going to be much more longer, maybe 5 to 7 years at least. But if you invest 4G, no more than 2 years, the 4G traffic is going to go down. So first, if we just collect the money without investing, it's difficult because we are actually at the leader position in providing service. We have a lot of customers. We have this opportunity to gain revenue. So investing in 5G today, our strategy is we invest in the -- where demand exists. And the demand might not at the peak of a cycle like 4G, but it's at the beginning stage. So we want to invest in large cities, in Bangkok, in industrial estates or customers who are -- factories or businesses. So there's actually clear demand right there. And I think we see that investing today, it's going to assist with the 4G business, and there's opportunity to expand from there as well. And how much -- we do care for our customers because some of the operators, I think they're -- they want to minimize on investment, and I believe that the customers might not be happy with that and they worry about their -- the quality of the -- and the quality of service they're going to get. So I think we want to focus that -- on the quality of our network and the quality of service if we want to maintain the leader. In other countries, it has proven that there is a long-term effect which is positive. And the mindset of customers, they feel that this company, this service provider is on top of things, they're the best, they can answer to their -- the customers' demand, and I think we're moving towards that direction.

And in the past 5 years, since 2015 to 2019, AIS has collected excess of 1 -- which is 24% CapEx. So in the next 5 years, in 2020 onwards, should the proportion be larger or lower than the past?

It was THB 16 billion. So the proportion of CapEx in the period of 4G, we have gained the spectrum slower than the market, so we had to expedite on the investment on the networks then. But from now on, we don't have to expedite on investment. We can just grow with the market and grow with the demand. So the proportion on investment on CapEx per the revenue, I think we're going to go up to 24%. On the average, looking at the industry, it's going to use about 20%, 22%. We want to try to manage to maintain in that range. Additionally, to Khun Tee, listening to your question, I think the analysts or the investors, I think you are concerned with the investment, right? So let me tell you that the AIS, our CEO and the Board members have considered and deliberated on this issue as well. So I want to tell you that AIS, we conduct our business, and we plan in long term and not in just short term year by year. And we want to -- we don't want to see the performance in short term. As Khun Tee has mentioned, that in the past, we wanted to focus the number of investment that is going to provide return on investment. And with the leading position that we have, investment in 5G today is much more appropriate than waiting to invest in the future because it's going to benefit the 4G as well. And the 5G itself, it's not that a lot of money. So with this opportunity from COVID, and we -- people are shifting their behavior faster with the digitalization, so we want to actually lead far as being a leader.

So the THB 35 billion investment this year, so the investment is not going to be less? So it's going to keep growing. Is this understanding correct?

No. Not absolutely correct because, like I said, it's really depending on the demand. So the 2020 is actually probably the best year for us. Because in 2019, it's actually a good year for AIS then -- after gaining that frequencies and spectrum. And then through all those hardships that we had to overcome in the past, we had limited resources and those concession contracts, I think we are resetting ourselves with a strong foundation ready to move forward. And what I want to tell you is that about the THB 35 billion, we are investing according to the increasing demand in 4G but using the 5G for the purpose of leadership to serve new customers, particularly in enterprise. All the large enterprises in Thailand, they are actually coming to work with us to utilize 5G in their industry. And if we want to invest more or less, it's really depending on the demand that's going to generate the revenue for us. Additionally, the THB 35 billion this year is actually -- it's investing in 4G and 5G. So 4G, if we want to invest this year, it's the equipment that we can switch to use for 5G as well. But next year, are we investing more? In my opinion, I don't think we're going to focus expanding anything more on 4G. And like I said that 5G, if we invest in that, the capacity is actually 3 to 4, 5x better. So if we invest in these strategic points, the network -- our network congestion will be -- not remain a problem anymore. So expanding the capacity like in the past, we already invested in that, that actually problem has been mitigated. So I think it's more on expanding on the 5G coverage according to the demand that's going to exist. So I think this is an opportunity to shift us to serve as strong foundation and providing new services. And other competitors might not be able to provide, and we were trying to change the crisis into opportunity. And 5G is really, really going to increase the value and -- in a very diverse group of customers, and we don't want to miss this opportunity. And we see that in foreign use case, that the -- many operators that have missed this train, and they didn't see that trend coming and they didn't react well. So we want to try to maintain that leadership and invest strategically where we see opportunities and using this as an advantage in trying to pull the customers to use our network. And in the past couple of years, the investors are concerned with the investment and the subsidization of handsets. And I think that's a result that the product or the services has not really been differentiated in the market. So we're acquiring this 5G in order to differentiate ourselves and be more sustainable.

The next question is the last question. So the feedback on FWA, the fixed wireless access, and when we launched on the consumers, what was the feedback? And in the future, the opportunity in gaining revenue from this on fixed wireless access on consumers' enterprise, which one has more potential?

As I said earlier on, there are several benefits compared to -- for the fiber EDS services that are enterprise only. And one of the biggest benefit is that you do not have any high CapEx upfront because for the fiber into the building, you require higher CapEx unless the building has already fiber into the offices. So the benefits are that it's actually very fast, you can actually install it almost instantly and also the possibility that you can actually relocate easily. I think the several installations that we have, the feedback from the customer has been very positive. And they also look at using FWA as a complement to the enterprise, the service that they have actually subscribed from us based on fiber. And also, the costing itself is about 30% cheaper. So there's a lot of benefits of the FWA compared to the fixed EDS. And so we think moving forward, the FWA should grow to meet a lot more of the demands of our customers. [Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]