Advanced Info Service Public Company Limited (ADVANC) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

[Interpreted] Good afternoon, all analysts. Welcome all of you to this session today to our Analyst Meeting 2022 today. You can enjoy the -- in order to join this session, you can also change the language as well by clicking in the interpretation button. If you would like to listen to the original sound or the floor sound, you can click off or you can choose your preferred language in either Thai or English. Following this, please change language by clicking the interpretation button below. And as a reminder, please remain on mute during the presentation. First of all, I would like to introduce to you the executives of AIS who have -- do us the honor in presenting the strategies and also answer any questions you may have today. The first person is Mr. Somchai Lertsutiwong, the CEO. And also joining us, Mr. Tee Seeumpornroj, the Chief Financial Officer. And also after the presentation, we will go into the Q&A session. And during that session, you will be given the opportunity to ask any questions you may have. [Operator Instructions] First of all, I would like to invite Mr. Somchai Lertsutiwong to present on the new strategy. [Operator Instructions]

[Interpreted] So I think the sound is on. So first of all, I would like to say hello to all analysts and investors. Today, we would like to present to you, we'll take not so much time. We're not going into the financial details, which we have already announced. So in terms of the performance of last year, we have already touched upon that. But what I would like to present to you in this meeting is the -- our announcement in last year, which is about the transformation that AIS will be -- will be transforming to a digital service provider -- to (sic) [ from ] digital life service provider to cognitive telco and our 3-year strategic plan so that analysts and investors will be on the same page so that they will recognize what we are going to do in the next 3 years. So first of all, [Foreign Language] we will rely on our expertise and experience. We are going to be using the concept of less but more. We try to increase efficiency with less resources. And in this regard, I would like to just explain that -- explain later in terms of what we're going to do in terms of mobile. The first one -- the second one is to build growth engine. Now we have new growth engine, which is a new source of revenue that is very obvious based on the 2 areas, which is fixed broadband and enterprise businesses. And for this year and the next few years, we are going to expand and scale up this particular growth engine. Even though it is not new in the industry, but our FBB enterprise is going to be the new core business of AIS based on our strength in the mobile business. The other important pillar is the invest in future, and this is going to be the new digital platform. This year and the next few years, we are going -- we are inventing the new digital platform, and this has been something that we have been working on for quite a while now. And you can see that we are growing in this particular pillar as well. The reason why we have to transform from digital life service provider to cognitive telco, even though we are still based on our 3 pillars, but what we are going to do in details our business model, because if we're going to take the same approach, our service and our products are not so unique anymore. We may say that we are faster, we are stronger, but we are not really making much difference. We are pressured by the competition. We are pressured by the minimum growth and also our performance as well. Even though our performance is still very good, but it is also a challenge for the future. So by transforming into cognitive telco, this will allow us to really invent our new approach to -- in our business, even though the new -- and that also includes a new digital service platform which will allow us to reinvent our approach, lead us to new business opportunity, and this is the reason why we need to transform to cognitive telco. In terms of cognitive telco, this is -- the meaning of which is basically the smart organization. What does it mean exactly? So this is just the chart that I would like to present to you. All the functions that are going to be involved in cognitive telco. So why are we transforming? The reason is that we want to ensure that our products and services really stand out from our competitors. We want to create a very stable experience and also very visible and tangible experience for our customers as well. We have to improve our automation network or autonomous network because the existing network already has like the over-the-country coverage, but that is not enough. We have to make it smarter. And I'm going to go into details later. Also, we have to improve the IT platforms as well. With the existing one, we need to also invent and improve the existing ones to ensure that it is smarter as well. And if we are going to be able to do that, we have to enable our network data because even though we are providing services relating to connectivity to our customers, but we have even more value -- our value is even more than that. We are -- our value is beyond communication, beyond connectivity. If we can use the data that we have from our service, we can create this Customer 360 approach. And now we're -- and also we have to also work with the partners as well. If we are -- if we can do that, we can use the data insight. If we have AI, if we have other new platforms, then we can, basically, improve our business and, basically, we can move on and transform ourselves into cognitive telco and be able to deliver different services. But how can we do that? So in terms of autonomous network, what are we going to do? What can we add into the existing network? Of course, we have to have the automate fault resolution, which is going to detect any troubleshooting, any trouble in the service that we're providing. For example, the network that is not working at any particular time. And also, we have -- our monitoring system will have to be able to detect that very fast. And if we can do that, when the system is down, we will have the very spontaneous system that will basically fix the problem, that will solve the problem for our customers in real -- on a real-time basis. So this is something new that we're going to apply. And that will make our business, our product stand out even more, and we will enable a very fast and very responsive maintenance. We will improve our -- the capacity of our network as well and that will also improve our operation efficiency. And that is something we are looking to apply to the stronger network that we have in the next few years. Also, the platform is something that is very important as well. We have the charging and billing platform. Now we are trying to modernize our IT system into a cloud-based IT infrastructure, which will reduce [ the cost and ] also simplify our internal processes as well. And even more importantly, it will enhance our IT security, and this is something we have to invest even more so. We want to improve the stability of our IT system. And since our customers have very different and diverse demands and needs, if we improve the IT intelligence platform, we'll be able to develop new products and services that is more tailored to the customers' needs. Also from the first 2 improvements here, the last one is the data insights that will basically really make us stand out because we can see that there are so many players in the world right now that can really make use of the data that they have. The reason why they can do that is not because their platform is strong, but they are very smart with data analytics. And I have mentioned this quite a lot that -- when we take a look at -- when we go onto the streaming services, for example, we will be offered with -- we will be suggested with different kinds of entertainment because it was tailor-made for us. So we have to make use -- take leverage of the data that we have of our customers and really personalize everything for our customers. We have to be interactive. We have to deliver personalized service on a real-time basis. These things are very important. If we can do all 3 of that, we will be able to deliver really unique services and products for our customers. We will really -- we will be able to retain the customers with us and also we can offer them with more personalized products and services as well. So what are we going to do with the mobile business? So in terms of the core business that I have mentioned, we have to continue to strengthen our mobile business, especially on the 5G. We expand the coverage by 76% last year. So this year, our target is to expand for 5G coverage to 85% for this year because we want to deliver the best network quality and drive interactive and immersive 5G experience for this year. And we also have the opportunity -- and for this year, we see that there are more and more handsets that are compatible with 5G. So we are going to improve our existence in the industry as well. And this is the thing that we are looking forward to doing for the mobile businesses. And also, we want to enhance our customer experience. We want to offer products and service that are personalized for our customers and also in a more proactive approach as well. And this is going to happen from this year forward. We are going to offer personalized products and services. And we are also very eager to create the digital brands for the new blood, the new generation. And we can see that there are more and more competition in this particular field as well. We want to create the GOMO 5G, which is a new digital brand. And this is basically created to really capture the new generation customers. In terms of the fixed broadband or home broadband, as I have mentioned, we are the new player in this particular field only for -- we have been here only for 6 and 7 years, but our growth is very steady and very satisfying as well. We are looking to scale up. The penetration and also to have a wider coverage for AIS fiber as well. And with the existing customer, when we are -- and also new customers as well. There are also the customers of other brands who are more willing to switch to AIS. And this is also the reason why we are able to expand our coverage over the last few years, and we are going to do the same for this next few years as well. And we're not really focusing on the fixed broadband stand-alone business, but we want to do the fixed FMC, or fixed mobile convergence, as well because our mobile clients, they are all over the country. So it is very necessary for us to provide a fixed mobile convergence to compete with the fixed broadband business. And another important thing is, we have the AIS PLAY, and we want to deliver unique VDO services to our customers who are the customers of our fixed broadband. This is another approach that we can take for this year for the fixed broadband clients. So in terms of the enterprise, for enterprise, as I have mentioned, we are seeing growth in this particular field as well. And we can expect about 20% to 30% of growth. And over the next few years, I believe that the enterprise business will have the revenue of over 20%. Now they have about the early 10%. But how can we expand this? So the enterprise clients for Thailand, they are using our mobile business. What we have to add even more, there are 2 parts. The first one is the 5G solution. And I believe that when we have available the ecosystem for the enterprise, for example, the vertical solution, we can even expand the 5G coverage even more. And there are also new enterprise business as well, whether it is the cloud, cybersecurity, IoT, data center or what we call CCIID. These are the core functions in the growth of AIS enterprise business. If we look at the bottom, even though we have many opportunities in the market, but we have strong brands. We have the client base, but we want to have the ICT solution, cybersecurity and cloud-based solutions. So we also need to have available those functions as well. So we are strong in the market. Our brand is quite strong, but we have to also expand our coverage to the cloud cybersecurity or CCIID businesses and that will enable us to really reach a 20% revenue for the new enterprise business. For the digital business, what are going -- what -- the change that we can expect for this year is the new digital services. We can divide that into 4 groups: digital lifestyle that we just launched on VDOs and games, e-sports and point system and education, digital marketing. We have digital finance, for example, digital lending and digital payment and other platforms that we are studying or looking into. So I have not included in this slide things that are not yet a concrete plan for AIS. But what is evident now today is that we can divide our digital services into 4 main groups. And our approach today, we can see that we are taking a different approach. Originally, AIS wants to do everything by ourselves. We want to invite partners to join us to use our platforms. But now we can see that there are more and more engagements with our partners. We want to collaborate with other partners to deliver an even more unique services. We are -- now we are co-working with a number of partners as well, and that will allow us to really engage with our partners and also we can really deliver new and standout products and services. And we can see that the market here is growing very significantly. But what's important is that we have to have a platform that is a smart platform that can really respond to the clients' demands, but also what is more important is our ability to analyze data and also deliver personalized services by using the system of cognitive telco. We want to be interactive. We want to deliver personalized service on a real-time basis. So these are the 3 pillars that we have to really rely on. We want to be able to offer personalized service, and we will be able to enjoy the share revenue from the new products and services. These are the perspectives of the future that we're looking forward to. Also, what I would like to confirm is that for us, we are transforming from digital life service provider and we are going to be a cognitive telco that are basically the same. So we are trying to seek new business opportunities beyond connectivity because we have the strength in connecting with our customers, 35 million subscribers. We want to build new growth opportunities from existing business. And certainly, today that I want to focus and emphasize is that in the current world, we must, too, be considering the ESG or economic, social and governance, and also addressing environmental issues. And this is what we're trying to focus on. So our products and services, that is going to be released, we need to be focused on this issue as well. So investors and analysts, you may see that despite the fact that we have aggressive visions, the way that we work in our team is we always consider the top line and in order to generate a dividend to everyone, so that's our main intention, being able to maintain solid cash flow and maintain financial flexibility. So I emphasize to you here, to our analysts, we -- our policy is we want to be in a win-win situation with all our stakeholders. Aside from our customers, we do care about our shareholders, investors and everyone. So we really want to strengthen our financial conditions. So in summary, for you, all analysts, I think in about 3 years in the future from now on, this is the direction that we're moving forward. And your -- the growth that you're seeing, whether it's mobile or fixed port enterprise, you can forecast that. But if we can actually achieve cognitive telco, the source revenue will be coming from there. And this will be actually the new criteria, new growth springboard for AIS growth. Thank you.

[Interpreted] So thank you very much, Khun Somchai. So now we can move on to Q&A. [Operator Instructions] The first question.

Just 1 question from me, or maybe a couple of questions, is that those...

Sorry. Can you speak up a little louder?

Okay. Let me try. A couple of questions from me. First is on digital life services and IT experience, building the platform. How much it will cost the business? So the guidance of mid-single-digit revenue growth and low single-digit EBITDA growth, is that factoring for those investments? That's question number one. And around 20% contribution coming from -- more than 20% contribution coming from enterprise business. What is the time line for that? I mean how should we define long term? Is it 3 to 4 years? How should we look at that?

Let me answer this, Nuttapop. In our business plan and guidance this year or the investment that we talked, including all -- also with investment, except some big project that if we have the new opportunity to grow in the market. However, on the revenue side of it also, we still not factored in much in this matter. Only some simple things like the VDO revenue, something, that's all. I think we invest on our business based on the thing that we try to transform our sales to be the cognitive telco, that already include in our investment already. That's why when we announced around THB 30 billion to THB 35 billion investment, it's already included -- that already included. If we can make this success, the revenue will come up more and more on our forecast. But we cannot compensate to forecast the revenue in this period because it's not only on our platform that we invest, it also depends on our customer behavior that they will use our product and service or not also. This is all that, that are still uncertainty, Nuttapop. For your second question on the 20% of enterprise revenue, we forecast it in the 3 years. I think it's not only on the mobile and our EDS revenue that will grow, every year allow 2% or 3% for the connectivity user. However, we still have the CCIID that I always mentioned. This group of new sort of view is still very few in the market. As you investigate in our ICT industry in Thailand, I think more than THB 300 billion revenue totally. As today, just captured only 1% allow THB 3 billion. However, even there are a lot of big opportunities. AIS have to declare our sales to do based on our strength in earlier. That's why we still really focused in some earlier of the new enterprise, new business thing, Nuttapop.

Thanks, Khun Somchai. Just if I do the math, like 2% to 3% of the growth coming from the core business, which is mobile and fixed. And if you target enterprise to be 20% in the next 3 years, then the enterprise grew another 2%, 3%, 4%. So should we expect AIS to grow at high single digit, maybe 2%, 3% coming from core and 3% coming from -- or 4%, 5% coming from enterprise? This is how one should look at the growth going forward? Means, I'm just trying to work the math that how 20% can be hit in 3 years from enterprise.

We forecast [indiscernible] because I talked to the team that even mobile revenue still grow. If you see our picture today on the mobile side, maybe allow 80-something percent and fixed broadband enterprise total allowed 15%, 17%, I cannot remember exactly number, around 85% and 15% something. That's why we think on the mobile side still grow, even grow 2%, 3%, 4% a year. The magnitude is still big, but I asked the team to challenge ourselves that on the mobile side, even it grows every year, I'm willing to have the mobile revenue less than 70% -- less than 70%. That means another platform, fixed broadband and also enterprise, total, it should be more than 30%. On the 30% that I asked for the enterprise team, try to find the new way of work and also the new enterprise which is there to sell up to more than 20% within 3 years. That's the thing that we plan in our 3-year strategic plan.

[Interpreted] Next, I'd like to invite Khun Wasu from CGS-CIMB.

[Interpreted] So thank you for your presentation, Khun Somchai. So my first question is for Khun Tee as a follow-up from the previous Analyst Meeting. So Khun Tee, you mentioned the CCIID. So the data center, Khun Tee said that we are going to embark on the construction because there is a need in the enterprise market and the government agency so you don't need to wait for the hyperscalers. So my question is, if you start building, how can we seek the hyperscaler customers because in my understanding, they are actually very particularly specification and location of data center. So they might be interested in maybe discussing -- negotiating first before initiating construction. So this is my first question.

[Interpreted] I think when we build a data center, we're not just aiming at 1 location. So hyperscaler, yes, we have to conclude the deal first. But in our context, we can build in the existing location that we have. And in details, you want to confirm that how soon we can get started, right? And is it necessary to conclude the deal first before construction? The quick question is, it may not be -- it's not definite that you need to hyperscaler first before beginning construction. For enterprise and government, there are some areas that we can just expand on our own. So some portion can be start building and constructing. And in greenfield, new location, whether it's 1 site, 2 sites, we could have more time for that.

[Interpreted] So am I understanding this correctly that if we can start with the location that we have, it will be the revenue directly for AIS. But for greenfield and the target group of the hyperscaler will be in the JV, Gulf and Singtel, is that correct?

[Interpreted] I think it can go both ways because in our existing area, for our hyperscaler, some groups are showing interest and they want space right away. So I think we leave a little bit of time to discuss on principle with the shareholder -- from the 2 shareholders that it could include all the new deals or it could just be for the greenfield only as well.

[Interpreted] Next question is on digital service. Can you maybe update the AISCB on the progress and the plan to launch, in which month? And if you have a business plan, can you please share with us?

[Interpreted] Right now, I think the progress is going as planned with slight delay. The last time we discussed the beginning of the second quarter to launch, but I think it could move a little bit for a couple of months. Mostly, it's on the development of the platform and back housing and -- as well as some prework and data and modeling. It could be a slight delay.

[Interpreted] Another question on digital service, particularly on Disney+. So I see it's really quite successful. We -- you have a lot of subscribers and users reaching at the level of Netflix. So are you seeking this type of partnership as well to have this content to draw customers?

[Interpreted] So the content team has been working on varieties of possibilities. I do want us to try to differentiate on 3 cores. First is the -- when we -- the method that we acquired Disney+ and HBO, so it's taking that in. So we are -- with exclusive model that can serve our customers. And even if this is better than billing on behalf in the regular method. The second part that we do is we go in to negotiate repurchasing content on other partners. For example, CNN, Warner's, Fox in order to pack and sell as the premium package for our customers, but it's not a big package, that's like THB 1,000, but we have like THB 100 -- a couple of hundred bahts for customers' selections. The third point is we also provide free content that we go into negotiations with to build more audience and gain revenue from advertising model. And we are doing very well, whether it's Olympic Games or Thai League which is actually now part of us. And also, we assist -- we help content creators -- or Thai content creators, and we support, like Nadal, with their development of series, just particularly for AIS. So these are the 3 things that we do on content. Additionally, so Disney is a great example, yes, on how we have optimized and expand our business on billing on behalf. And previously, a lot of people had a lot of question on how we go about our VDO business. In the past, there's a VOD method, subscription method and advertising, so free content. So in the previous years, free viewing burned a lot of money. So it's not the style that we're going to go for. So a lot of analysts are asking what we're going to do with the content. So I think the Disney model actually is exemplary in ways that if you can seek content that meets the customers' demand at very good price, we're going to be successful. So in Thailand, people are not familiar with paying to view. If I remember, there is a lot of example from the past that had a lot of viewership but they couldn't sustain the business. So I think for us, it's great that we have the base. We can seek additional contents. And it's not -- actually, we're not overloading ourselves with the content. And I think it's about calculating the appropriate price. It's a great model, I think, that we can expand on.

[Interpreted] I'd like to ask about Disney+. Are we making profit in terms of cash flow or P&L? And currently now, other digital service that you're looking for aside from AISCB and Disney+ that could generate revenue and profit in the next 2 years, but analysts haven't thought about that, what kind of business are you looking at to generate?

[Interpreted] That's a difficult question because I don't want to mislead anyone. Okay, the 2 questions on Disney+. So after we have gained subscribers, we are not -- we are making profit because we do have a deal for some minimum guarantee. The second question is, how is the revenue -- how do we generate more revenue? So providing digital service is challenging. And we are actually forgoing 4 groups that I showed you earlier. But to forecast revenue, we are not actually overforecasting because we want to focus in delivering platform and developing service. Because if we have good platform, I think the revenue is going to come in more than the guidance that we're planning for because currently now it's working on the outside end model. So the 4 pillars, the digital business that I explained, we are expecting revenues from VDO, that's clear. But if we were to forgo on insurance as part of the digital finance and if it's really going to grow, it's going to generate revenue from insurance industry. So we are working on that, but we have not forecast the revenue on that because we have to also gauge the consumers. I think the point to keep an eye on is how we can take off and scale up because the products that I showed you, if you can calculate about the market size, whether it's financial products, lending, payment, insurance, there's not -- maybe not a lot of margin, but the size and scale itself is great, or advertising, for example, in a way, it's all the digital media that we can leverage and create revenue from that. We are forecasting internally but it will be difficult until before we can release the guidance, until we are -- how we see the trend and be confident about releasing that. So the question right now is when we are taking off. So it depends on how confident you are. But with the existing interim data that we have and the connection that we have with customers, it serves as a great fundamental platform for us to engage. As I said that we are still in piloting on many projects, but I think you have to watch out on when we take off and you will see the revenue stream coming in.

[Interpreted] Last question from me is on your cognitive telco, particularly on net worth. I'm not sure if you -- when you have implemented this. And if once it's implemented at full scale, is it going to address the failure of network and reduce the downtime? Maybe I want -- like some constructive answer.

[Interpreted] I'd like to share a little bit -- when I say autonomous network, it's a standard on the technical point of view. And technology in network infrastructure right now has the autonomous function, particularly in the age of AI and machine learning. AIS have been working on autonomous network internally for several years now. Particularly in the couple of 2 or 3 years, we've been more active. But in the beginning phase, autonomous network is more rule-based. So it automates simple task, and we can save a lot of manpower and people can rotate to work on other jobs and transactions that exist on the network has become more complex, particularly if we're moving on to 5G technology. But people have not increased, but we are expanding our network for enterprise business and fixed broadband. So automation in the past, it actually enhance our resource management and they are adapting themselves to be more innovative. So I mentioned rule-based. When Khun Somchai talked about cognitive telco, autonomous network that is smarter than rule-based will use the capabilities of AI and machine learning. And it could be deeper in the operation where it could be work on more complex tasks. And when Khun Somchai said about predictive work, I think that's another layer that they can work on. And in the CapEx that we have planned for annually, we're going to consider these features and functions. So not purchasing everything, but focusing on whatever we can build better experience for our customers. While for the network failure is about reliability, normally, when we design a network, we also work -- we also consider redundancy, and we -- AIS focus on that. But I think zero incident would be too ambitious. However, network automation in our context is to serve our customers' new experience.

[Interpreted] Next, I would like to invite Mr. Supachai from Yuanta Security.

[Interpreted] I have 3 to 4 questions. The first one, I would like to ask about Gulf because from the interviews by Khun Somchai, we can see that Gulf is quite active in terms of speed. Is there any other things that we can expect? And what would be the scope of Gulf performance? Also, apart from speed, is there anything that Gulf can basically add to AIS?

[Interpreted] As I've mentioned earlier that we have local strategic partner that is very efficient. Even though Gulf may not invest -- may not have invested directly with AIS, but we also have some connection with them. We have something that are overlapping in terms of our work. So they are generating energy for the government, but at the same time, they would want -- they are looking forward to making the smart metering. So in the past, we have discussed this and even before they invest InTouch. But once they want to kick off this kind of project, they have to have a partner. So they are now using IoT or M2M solution that we are providing. So now that they became the investor of InTouch. So it's going to be -- AIS is going to network with them even closely and we can expect this -- the kind of similar projects. And also we have -- the -- Gulf is the manager or administrator of the port of Thailand as well. So in terms of the infrastructure, enterprise solution, 5G, they'll have to use our service. And this is the byproduct that we can get from the investments from Gulf. So this is something that I think is -- we can look forward to, and this is where we can align. We can strengthen the service of Gulf and we can also strengthen our delivery of the service to Gulf as well. And in terms of other strengths that can be valuable for AIS, I would say that they are the very good local strategic partner. Singtel may be able to help us in terms of hyperscaler while, at the same time, Gulf will be able to help us reduce the cost of energy generation. And apart from speed, they can also contribute to a number of other things as well.

[Interpreted] For the second question, I'm very happy to hear that you want to make your network smarter. You want to use -- leverage of data to generate more income, to have this insightful value for your customers. So what we have understood -- what we have understand so far, we have a legacy network of AIS because AIS has been standing for a very long time. So in order to change your network to be smarter, what is the approach? Do we have to cut out things that are too old fashioned? Are you investing in new things? Or are you using existing network that you have? And also, how will you integrate these new existing networks?

[Interpreted] So let me put it this way in terms of network, whether it is a legacy or not, I cannot really give you the exact answer, but we have the 3G, 4G, 5G, we have hardwares and softwares. And as Khun [indiscernible] has already said, we are now looking forward to having the autonomous network. So the reason why we are shifting to autonomous network, that is partly because we want to reduce the time. We want to reduce the cost in network management. And secondly, we want to enhance user experience or customer experience. So when we want to transform, whether or not we have to do that, like entirely at the same time, I would say that we will not be able to do that at the same time with all the equipment that we are -- that we have. And we also have to gauge the technology shift as well. I would say that the change would take about 3 to 4 years, that we will keep on replacing the new -- the old equipment to make -- to install new equipment or software that will enable our service to be more compatible with the change in technology. Things -- these things, they -- we do not have to change everything at the same time. We can do it gradually and step-by-step as well. And on other questions, about the network failure, I would say that we have a very minimum amount of network failure, even though there is an incident last Monday. But even so, we want to ensure that there is more reliability in our network, even though it is very high at the moment. So I do hope that in the future, we can improve the management of our network with the same or less resources and also deliver an even better experience.

[Interpreted] I'm going to speed up because there are other analysts who are looking forward to ask you questions. So this is to -- for Khun Somchai. In the past, the broadband business, your AIS have been doing it by itself. And now we have invested in terms of CapEx, even more CapEx. So are we -- is there an opportunity to going back to organic growth? And also, the second question today, with the merger of True and DTAC, if that -- let's assume that it's going to -- that they're going to be merged. I can see that AIS are now investing more and now we can see that the approach of AIS is to have the market share -- even more market share. So if we take this approach in the early stage during the merger and acquisition, I do agree with your approach. But if at a later stage of the M&A, what would be your strategy at the later stage of the M&A? And also, this is also for Khun Somchai. We can see that our competitors are now saying that they want to be a tech company, I'm not sure what that means. But from our perspective, we want to be cognitive telco. So my question is that, from your perspective, what are the difference between tech company and cognitive telco? And what are the gaps and what are our strengths and weaknesses?

[Interpreted] So I'm not going to touch upon the organic growth because our plan is, as I have mentioned earlier, that it will also depend on the shareholders and also the market as well in terms of our approach. The second question, once there is [indiscernible] merge call, we can see that quite clearly from the strategies from other countries and also from Thailand, there are indications that the clients of the 2 companies are going to be merged, they are now starting to shift to AIS as well. And we can see that, that is the change. And we can expect that there is going to be competition over the next few years, and it's going to be like this for the next few years as well. Because if the merge company became -- the second player fall into the second place, that would not be an ideal perspective for the merger and acquisition. So it's going to be a very, very fierce competition, I would say. After the merger, after the network collaboration, then what would happen? Analysts have already analyzed the perspective, but -- from what we can see that there are going to be less players that are going to be -- and this is basically based on the theory of economics. I believe that over the next -- the first 2 years of M&A, the combination will be quite vibrant. But over third to fourth year, it will become more stable. And for your fifth (sic) [ third ] question, tech company and cognitive telco, I would say that the approach will not be really different. It just depends on the name that you use. But for AIS, our scope, our approach is quite clear. We have core business. We have new growth engine. We have the fixed broadband, which is the second pillar. And the second -- and this is the new, new that is very tangible for AIS. I do believe that they are going to grow even more so. And by transforming to cognitive telco, that is for us to be able to get to know our customers better, have better connection with our customers for us to be able to offer personalized service across all industries because there are so many industries in the world right now. We only pick -- we categorize them into 4 groups, but there are so many -- so much more. So the difference between us and tech company, they may be touching upon a lot of things. But for me, for cognitive telco, we are more focused. We are more focused based on the 4 groups that I have mentioned and that will help us in choosing our partners. And also, we have -- we said from the start that we're not going to get into other businesses. We're just going to be the partner to provide the platform for our partners as well. So we are going to -- that will be the plus points for us. That will be the advantages that we have. We are going to collab with our partners, but we're not going into the insurance business even though we may partner with our insurance partner. So by saying that they are tech company, they may be touching upon the tech businesses as well, but I'm not quite sure in terms of the -- but I'm not quite clear on what are the businesses they are doing. And that is something that I would say that probably that is their strength. They may -- if it's successful, they will gain a lot of revenue. But if that is not so good, then probably they will...

[Interpreted] So next question from Khun Thitithep from Kiatnakin Phatra Securities. Khun Thitithep, are you still here? So let's skip to Mr. Nuttapop from Thanachart.

[Interpreted] Yes, this is Nuttapop from Thanachart. So let's go back to the bigger picture that I've seen -- I've seen that AIS want to touch upon the overview on the 3 pillars that we're going to take this approach for the next 3 to 5 years. What I would like to understand is that I want to understand the structure of the company. For example, if 5 years from now, what are we going to see? Like are we going to see AIS as a huge corporation? Or are we going to see AIS as a joint venture or as a partner -- investment partner? Or are we -- are you going to set up other affiliates or other subsidiaries? For example, in the past, we are the builder or the creator of infrastructure. We provide service. We provide equipments. But for enterprise, it may -- that approach may be a bit tricky because you have to set up a new business unit. And if we want to partner with other partners and we want to hold shares in that particular partners company, are we going to set up companies to hold shares, i.e., holding companies for those structure as well? And another thing is that what would be the cost? For example, if you have to set up companies with every collaboration that you are going to do, it will be cost for the establishment of company. And also, are you going to create a spin-off company for such a structure?

[Interpreted] So that is a very good question. For us, we are having an internal discussion and also with our shareholders as well, in terms of the structure that are ideal for our growth based on the 3 pillars that we have presented. And if we have more details, we will communicate these details with you in the future.

[Interpreted] Mr. Thitithep, please turn on your microphone. So I would like to now skip to Khun Pisut from Kasikorn.

[Interpreted] Can you hear me clearly?

[Interpreted] Yes, go ahead.

[Interpreted] So I have 2 questions. First one is for Khun Somchai on the revenue new businesses. You said that it will be as high as 20% of the total revenue within 3 years. So can you guide us in terms of EBITDA margin or net margin for this particular field? Because if we look at the EBITDA margin of AIS, we can see that it is about 50% and net margin at 20%. So can we forecast the future from the number that we have right now? And also the revenue, revenue is not -- does not happen by itself. We have to also calculate using CapEx as well. And the proportion -- or the proportion of CapEx that we have to use in order to get the 20%, what would be the amount of CapEx?

[Interpreted] So this is just for us to basically -- for forecasting purposes. So the 20%, this is for enterprise business. This is the enterprise portion. And as I have mentioned in the conference call that we have earlier, the enterprise portion today, on average, I think the margin is at probably a little bit below consumer margin. And in the future, it depends on what -- which one would grow faster. The one that grows faster, there will be the reselling model as well. So in the overall, it may dilute the margin by a bit. But all of them are making profits at the moment. So I think the one that will have the faster growth is the CCIID and the margin for that is a bit lower than mobile businesses at the moment. So this is the rough answer that I can give you at the moment.

[Interpreted] Also second question. Khun Somchai mentioned to the ICT business and the size of the scale of the business is quite huge. My question is that this ICT business, it exists for a long time already. So why is AIS just started to focus on ICT business? What happened? What is the trigger point? What opportunity did you see in the ICT business when 5 -- 4 to 5 years ago, you have not touched upon the ICT business or you have already done so, but it does not work? Now that you have new tools, you can -- you are now confident that it's going to work or whether you'll be able to scale it up?

[Interpreted] So the answer to your questions. The first one is that we are not entering the existing ICT business because the existing ICT, there are existing players, hundreds and hundreds of players. The 10 -- the top 10 to 20 of players have about 10% market share, and they are based on the old system. Basically, they are selling computers, they are selling applications. Some companies are working on banking applications, but that's not what we're interested in. What we're interested in is we want to enter ICT business because we have relationship with corporations and also we have [indiscernible]. We have infrastructure. We have clients that are using our infrastructure, for example, EDS. Even as in the right now, they are using our platforms as well. So I want us to be in that business. We do not see at the moment the value of selling them computers, which we are not an expert. So basically, now we have the cloud-based technology, we have cybersecurity, we have IoT. These are the things that we have expertise in and also 5G and data center as well. And that -- these are the new enterprise and these are the new opportunities, as I have mentioned in the slide. And even though it's new, but we have experience, we have expertise as well, and we have -- can build upon that. I'm not going to capture the THB 300 billion, but I'm going to capture a part of the ICT business that probably in the region of tens of billions. But we have to focus on what we are expert -- on what we have expertise. We can offer infrastructure. We can offer our platforms and we can do business in the CCIID.

[Interpreted] Khun Thitithep, are you there? I'm not sure if you're still here with us. If you are, please turn on your microphone. So with the time constraint, I will now end the Q&A session. For other questions that you may have, you can send them to the IR team. I would like to thank all analysts and investors for joining us in this session. I would like to thank the 2 executives for presenting us the presentation -- presenting us the information and also the Q&A -- the answers to the Q&A session, Khun Somchai Lertsutiwong and Khun Tee Seeumpornroj. Thank you very much. Thank you all. Goodbye. [Portions of this transcript that are marked [Interpreted] were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]