Alfa Financial Software Holdings PLC (ALFA) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Hello, everyone, and welcome to Alfa's 2023 Full Year Results. I'm Andrew Denton, CEO of Alfa, and I'm joined by Duncan Magrath, our CFO; and Matthew White, our COO. Our agenda for today sees me kick off with a review of the year before handing over to Duncan for the financials. Matthew will then take us through the operational highlights before I close out with the business highlights and the summary. So let's start with a review of 2023. 2023 gave us another Rule of 40 financial performance, again backed up by very strong cash conversion. The business became more resilient. Customer concentration was at 35%. No single customer contributed more than 10% of our revenue. 19 customers contributed more than GBP 2 million of revenue. That's up from 17 last year. As Matthew will outline, it's been yet another record year for deliveries, 35 deliveries in total, and that included 7 go-lives. Retention and engagement were at unprecedented levels, as you'll see on the next slide. And we did all of this while continuing to deliver our strategy. And key to this is moving to subscription. Our financial results remain strong despite the headwinds from this transition. But we've seen strong growth in subscription TCV and revenue. And those point to a very strong future as Duncan will explain. And if all of that is not enough, we've extended our competitive advantage and further secured our future with the release of Alfa Systems 6, a breakthrough release of our platform. Added to that, our culture of continuous improvement has delivered progressive changes in our Alfa Development Model. And our positive impact as a business is underpinned by the validation of our SBTi targets. Looking forward, Alfa will deliver 10 new modules, driving incremental sales. And our capability continues to expand through growth in our teams, as again Matthew will explain. Our sales performance has been stellar and a strong early-stage pipeline is backing up the clear strength of the late stages I'll explain later. This confidence in our expectations and our prospects have led the Board to increase our ordinary dividend by 8% to 1.3p and to declare a special dividend of 2p. So moving on to those key numbers. Our revenue for the year was up at GBP 102 million, an increase of 9% from the prior year and our first-ever 9-digit year. We ended the year with GBP 21.8 million in cash. That's underpinned by excellent cash conversion again, this time at 115%. As I mentioned, we made excellent progress in growing our subscription revenue. That's up 16% with revenues from Alfa Cloud, up 31%. Operating profit was GBP 30.1 million. That's 30% operating profit margin or 32% EBITDA. And during the year, we invested in growing our team as well as our software, and our closing headcount was up 8%. Keeping that team together and engaged is critical for our business. So I was delighted to end the year at 97% retention and with 82% engagement. Finally, we ended the year with a total contract value of GBP 165 million. That's up 16% from the previous year and growing all the time, thanks to that strong late-stage pipeline. Duncan?

Thanks, Andy. As you can see, we've had a strong financial performance. Revenue was up 9% over last year at actual and at constant currency rates. Operating profit was up 2% at GBP 30.1 million with an operating margin of 30%. The effective tax rate of 21% was higher than last year on the back of the increase in the U.K. corporation tax rate, resulting in diluted EPS being down 2% at 7.9p per share. So overall, a strong financial performance for the year. We continue to make progress in improving our customer diversification. The chart on the left shows our revenue split by markets. And you can see that we have limited exposure to any one market. The graph on the right shows the growth in our customer base. We now have 19 customers with annual revenues in excess of GBP 2 million, a huge improvement on the 7 from 2019. So turning now to TCV. Total TCV of GBP 165 million is up 16% over last year and driven by the success in converting the late-stage pipeline, and within this, the particularly strong growth in subscription TCV. The next 12 months TCV is up 3% as a result of the strong growth in subscription TCV, offset by a reduction in services TCV, which I will cover later. So turning now to the first of our three revenue streams, subscription revenues. Subscription revenues, which account for 31% of our business, increased 16% over last year with revenues of GBP 31.8 million. Within this, Alfa Cloud hosting has continued to grow strongly, up by 31%. And we're now live with 13 Alfa Cloud customers with another 3 in implementation. The success of our transition to subscription sales can be seen in the revenue figures but also in TCV, which is up strongly at 28%. We expect this to continue to grow going forward as we convert the late-stage pipeline. Moving on to our second revenue stream, software. Software revenues decreased by 4% in the year as a result of the reduced revenues from customized license as we transitioned to subscription. I've split the software revenues down into three categories: firstly, revenue from enhancement work, which was up 4% on last year; secondly, customized license revenue, which includes software development days, along with the perpetual license, and this was down 19% as we transitioned to subscription licenses; and thirdly, one-off license fees, which were GBP 0.5 million, up GBP 0.1 million on last year. TCV is down 11%, reflecting the reduction in deferred customized license revenues and also a reduction in chargeable enhancement design work as we are focused more on investment into Alfa Systems 6. Turning to our final revenue stream, services. Total services revenue increased by 10% to GBP 54.6 million with growth in both existing and new customers. v4 to v5 upgrades accounted for 17% of the total days with partner days accounting for 8%. TCV is down 5% versus the same time last year, and this is due to existing projects getting towards the end of their implementation and the new projects not yet contracted. Turning now to expenses. Overall costs increased 13% on last year. Salary costs, the biggest component, increased 12% over last year with average headcount up 10%. Other SG&A costs grew more slowly, up 10%. Profit share increased to GBP 3.8 million. FX gains of GBP 0.3 million were GBP 0.8 million lower than last year. Other income was in line with last year, although within this, we had no subletting income from the floor that we fully assigned. This was offset by income from the RDEC scheme, which replaced the R&D scheme, which we are required to show the GBP 0.5 million benefit within other income. We had GBP 0.6 million of legal costs incurred in relation to the possible offers for the company. Turning to cash flow. We delivered a very strong cash performance with 115% cash conversion, which benefited from some delayed 2022 payments received at the start of 2023. And at the end of 2023, we had higher-than-expected customer receipts. As previously mentioned, we expect to operate around 100% cash conversion going forwards, but this can vary between the years. Given the very strong finish to 2023, we would expect 2024 cash conversion to be lower than 2023. We had GBP 4.8 million of share purchases in the period, GBP 3.1 million arose from purchases under the share buyback scheme, which we completed in June 2023, and GBP 1.7 million from purchase of shares for the EBT. We also paid GBP 19.7 million of dividends in the period. So now on to the balance sheet. Picking out some key items, and firstly, trade receivables. As just noted, we had a very strong cash collection at the start and end of 2023. And you can see this with receivables of GBP 5.6 million, being GBP 3.3 million lower than last year-end. Cash increased to GBP 21.8 million on the back of the strong cash generation, even after funding dividends and share purchases. Corporate tax recoverable is up on 2022 as a result of the receivables for the 2022 R&D and 2023 RDEC claims. Now some words on capital allocation. There is no change to our policy, which is to ensure that we have sufficient funds to run the business but to retain some optionality for further investment into our product or possibly bolt-on M&A. We create the optionality by having a relatively low ordinary dividend but use a higher special dividend to return any excess capital. There are no immediate investment requirements. And so alongside declaring an ordinary dividend of 1.3p per share, which is 8% up on last year, we have also declared a special dividend of 2p per share. Next, a brief update on modeling guidance. As you know, 2023 was weighted towards the first half. And we expect 2024 to be weighted towards the second half due to the timing of customer-funded development and the start-up of new projects. Within this, we expect subscription revenues to continue to show strong sequential growth. We expect the full year effective tax rate to be 26% due to the full year impact of the 25% U.K. corporation tax rate, along with no longer receiving any benefit from R&D on the tax line. As I mentioned before, we are now in what is called the RDEC scheme, the benefit of which is shown in operating income. Currency sensitivity has been updated slightly with a small increase in our sensitivity due to the growth in the U.S. business. I will now hand over to Matt.

Thanks, Duncan. Every 6 months in these presentations, we emphasize the size of our market opportunity. And our strategy includes simplification to enable more concurrent implementations of Alfa Systems more efficiently and thereby to enable Alfa to serve more of that huge opportunity. But our simplification agenda goes further than that, including simplification of all of our processes across our organization. And we've even simplified our strategy itself. We've consolidated our six Ss into four: strengthening our three differentiators, that's our product, our delivery track record and our people; selling our single-tenant SaaS product; scaling our capacity for delivery; and simplifying our product, our implementations and everything we do. 2023 saw continued investment in our product with internally funded investment weighted to the second half because of deadlines for customer-led development in H1. We release a new version of our product every 4 weeks. Every new release is available to every customer as a frictionless upgrade. And every release includes many product improvements that are freely available to all customers, demonstrating the benefit of packaged software. But some enhancements to Alfa Systems are included only in additional saleable modules. Now one of those four weekly releases in 2024 will see us change our major version number and Alfa v5 will become Alfa Systems 6. While only one time box away from the final release of v5, Alfa Systems 6 is far beyond anything we could have imagined in v5's early days. And it will include 10 new modules, providing further revenue generation opportunities for Alfa and strengthening our competitive advantage, for example, Compose, which provides a new no-code environment for customers to create new screens in Alfa Systems. We're also in the early stages of two major functional investment initiatives, which will see Alfa Systems leap forward in two key areas. Firstly, improved originations capability will significantly increase our footprint within asset finance. And secondly, we are continuing our push into the commercial loan sector, which is a major market adjacent to asset finance with a new revolving credit module. As well as functional enhancement, we've continued to invest to maintain our technology advantage. We're improving and simplifying the deployment of our product. And we continue to make incremental improvements to our software development tooling and to our technology platform. Ongoing technology investment in our product is important as part of our commitment to avoid technical debt, which would have to be paid down at some point in the future and also to continue to attract and retain the best technology talent in our industry. Added together, the functional and technical investment in our product in 2023 comes to GBP 35 million, a further increase on the GBP 29 million invested in 2022. We've refreshed our Alfa Development Model, which is improving the flow of development work internally and with customers. And Alfa Cloud remains our fastest-growing revenue stream with nearly all-new customers and more than half of our customer base as a whole now taking advantage of our single-tenant SaaS offering. In the appendix of this presentation, I've included a brief explanation of the differences between single- and multi-tenant SaaS. This summarizes an excellent thought leadership piece from our technology team and explains why our approach to single tenant allows us to achieve the best of both worlds. And finally, on our product, Alfa iQ, our AI joint venture has moved in-house at Alfa. Alfa iQ was fantastic for us. And we benefited hugely from the experience of our partner, Bitfount. With Bitfount and with our customers, we've proven out two use cases for predictive AI: in credit decisioning and in business process analysis. AI at Alfa is now part of business as usual for both software development and operational efficiency. The next steps for AI in our product will probably involve more targeted use cases, such as receipt allocation, from which our customers can gain benefit quickly and without complex legal analysis. Our delivery track record is perhaps our key differentiator. As a company, our efforts all come together when we successfully deliver our software for our customer. We've had another record year for go-lives with 7 new customers live on v5. We've also completed the rollout of our wholesale system for one of our largest U.S. customers, which is a huge achievement for the team, akin to another customer going live. And we had a record number of deliveries as well with 35 in total, including those customer upgrades and those new customer go-lives. Our strategy is to simplify the implementation of Alfa Systems so that we can take advantage of that market opportunity, that I told you I'd emphasize, through more concurrent implementations of our software. And we are progressing that strategy every year with incremental improvements to the way that we deliver. Because this is about aggregation of gains, it can be hard to get a feel for the progress of that investment. So here's an illustration from the world of Alfa Start, which offers the best opportunity for like-for-like comparison. Our first U.K. equipment start implementation, which was only 4 years ago, had a project team with combined Alfa experience of around 30 years, and it involved 4 seasoned Alfa consultants implementing our software. By contrast, our most recent U.K. equipment start implementation had a team of three, one of whom was provided by a staff augmentation partner and one of whom was a graduate new joiner to Alfa with less than 1 year in work. The combined Alfa Systems experience of that team was less than 10 years. All of this means that we can deliver value for our customers with reduced effort and reduced cost for Alfa. And it's also worth saying that the use of a staff augmentation partner on an Alfa Start project represents tangible progress in our multiyear journey towards partner-led delivery. 2023 saw us continue to invest in our talented team. Average headcount grew by 10% to 463. Importantly, our really strong retention rate has allowed us to consolidate experience levels within the team as a whole while we continue to recruit. We've maintained our very high engagement scores. And we've continued to improve our learning and development. The culture as a whole at Alfa has a huge bias towards personal and organizational growth as we build Alfa together. This investment in increasing our headcount, in retaining our talented team and in improving learning and development will enable us to take advantage of the very strong pipeline that Andrew will outline. So 2023 was a year of fantastic delivery for our customers but also of continued investment in our product, in our delivery capability and in our team. And we're set fair to push on with exciting new customers in 2024. And for more on that, I'll hand back to Andrew.

So turning to the late-stage pipeline. We continue our strong sales momentum with no late-stage losses and three wins. We've also more than replenished those wins with the late-stage pipeline ending the year up at 11. Over the year, we added 6 new prospects to the late stage. And of the 11, we are doing paid work with 5. Turning to the outlook. Demand for asset finance software remains robust, and our projects continue with new opportunities, adding to our pipeline, as I said. Revenue growth is expected to be mid- to high single digits. And as Duncan has outlined, we expect greater weighting in H2 as new sales come on stream. Subscription revenues are growing strongly, in line with our strategy. And we're continuing to invest in the business, both our people and our software, ahead of growth. So to recap, another Rule of 40 financial performance backed up again by strong cash conversion. Customer concentration at 35%, no single customer greater than 10% of our total revenue and 19 customers with more than GBP 2 million of revenues. Another record year for delivery, 35 in total, including 7 go-lives. Retention and engagement, unprecedented levels, and all of this while continuing to deliver our strategy. As I said, key to this is our move to subscription, maintaining those strong financial results despite the headwinds from this transition. That gives us strong growth in subscription TCV and revenue, both of those point to a very strong future and extending our competitive advantage, further securing our future with the release of Alfa System 6. Delivering progressive changes in our Alfa Development Model and our positive impact being ratified and underpinned by the validation of our SBTi targets. 10 new modules, driving incremental sales looking forward, and that stellar sales performance backing up our confidence in the business. And thanks to that confidence, we have increased our ordinary dividend by 8% to 1.3p, and we're declaring a special dividend of 2p. Thank you for listening.

So a couple of question areas for me. I mean, maybe firstly, just around v6 and also, I suppose, linking that to some of the additional areas of investment that Matthew mentioned in the presentation, I think, directed at the asset finance side of the business. I mean, I guess, the questions there are, can you give us a bit of insight into some of the customer reception around v6? How much additional work is there to do in the first half still in terms of additional investment in, I suppose, not v6 but maybe these other areas? And then I know it's difficult to do, but the 10 new modules that you've got, can you talk at all about how addressable your existing base is for those? Are they applicable to the majority of your existing v5 customers potentially? And if a customer were to take up all 10 of those, how much revenue upside would we be looking at on a relative basis? The other question is a bit more straightforward, just around the hiring plans for '24. It seems like we've been tracking at the sort of 10% headcount growth for a while now. The retention has moved up very, very high. I wonder whether it's actually, in some ways, challenging to manage the sort of seniority of the pyramid with such high retention. But does that have implications for 2024 hiring? Are you going to slow that at all or continue at a good 10% rate?

Thanks, James. I'll leave the hiring plans question to either Duncan or Matthew or perhaps a joint effort on that one, and I'll pick up Alfa Systems 6 in terms of the sub-bullets of your question there. In terms of reception, it's been very, very positively received. I think that speaks to a couple of things. It speaks to the fact that Alfa Systems 6 is a low-friction or no-friction release of the software. Existing customers will be in a position to take any additional functionality if they're taking regular upgrades as part of their standard upgrade cycle. So we're getting, if you like, none of the destabilization in the customer base that comes with a major release and all of the upside, which is as we had intended. But reception really good, which again is not surprising because the new functionality that we're releasing as part of Alfa Systems 6 is genuinely game-changing. We have released already Alfa Compose, which is an unbelievable technology. As an engineer by training, that gets me very excitable. But in terms of the end user outcomes that Compose can give, the idea of being able to customize the system from the perspective of the user interface in a no-code environment is incredibly powerful. And I can say that all of the customers that have seen Compose are interested in Compose. It's gone down incredibly well at our user group and user forum meetings when we previewed it. Down to applicability then, which is an easy segue in there. The modules that we're releasing as part of further 6 are pretty much universally applicable for version 5 customers. The only slight exception to that is in total originations, where a lot of the work that we've done on total originations has been to address the area of U.S. automotive originations, which rounds out our proposition for that market. And clearly, if you're not in U.S. auto originations, then that's functionality that will not be applicable to you. That in itself brings us neatly on to the upside, and as you point out, James, pretty tricky to quantify. What I can say, building on the theme of U.S. auto originations is that increases our addressable market. That's an area that we didn't have a full solution for in the past. Originations has been part of Alfa's story as long as I remember. But the specificity required for U.S. auto originations, that's a new thing and it's going to make us incredibly powerful in that part of the U.S. auto market. We're very excited about it. The modules themselves, our client account directors are going out there and presenting them to customers as we speak. They're very excitable about that. We've got a degree of incremental sales associated with those new modules within our own plans. But certainly, there's an opportunity for upside in that. The important thing, I think, to point out though about the way that we're selling those new modules is that even for an existing perpetual license customer, we'll be selling those modules on a subscription basis. So any incremental advantage we get for those modules financially will go on to the subscription line, which, as you know, is a strategic focus. Quite a verbose answer. I'll hand over to the other guys for the hiring plans.

James, thank you for the question. Yes, I think we'll see less hiring in 2024 than we've seen in previous years. And in summary, there are two key reasons for that. One is that we've been investing in the team. We have a team that's ready to take advantage of those exciting opportunities on the projects that Andrew outlined. And secondly, strategic progress. So as well as having the team at Alfa ready to step in and be involved in those exciting projects, we also have a bench within our partners. And they are also for the better part, speaking to one of our partners yesterday, super excited about getting involved in those new projects. I'd also mention subscription, of course, so growth in subscription revenue, where we've built Alfa Cloud from the ground-up to be low touch. Our infrastructure as code approach there means that we don't need to increase headcount to take advantage of the huge opportunities we have there. So a bit less than the 10% growth we've seen in previous years, attempting to decrease the focus on that headcount growth.

Great. And just any comments around the retention? I mean, you've always been very positive on having such high retention. I just wonder, is there a level that's too high for Alfa? Or is there no such thing?

Thank you. Yes, you mentioned perhaps challenging seniority in the pyramid. Absolutely not. It's fantastic that we've seen the retention that we have seen. And the fact that we have so many new exciting projects coming on means that we really need the people at the senior levels who are able to step up and run large new projects. And we've got some really exciting new people taking on really exciting new roles for them. It's very, very pleasing and necessary that we maintain that retention level so that we can continue to take advantage of the opportunities, and we have done it and we will continue to, I'm sure.

The next question comes from the line of Gautam Pillai from Peel Hunt.

A couple from my end as well. Just kind of remind us where you are in the product cycle with respect to v5 with your customers. What percentage of the installed base has now moved to v5? And with the v6 kind of move, if there is a customer who hasn't moved to v5, would you kind of persuade them to continue to straight away move to v6? Is that the plan? And second question is the net new customers you're winning. Is most of those competitor system replacements or upgrade from in-house setups? And finally, any metrics you can provide on customer net retention rates?

Thank you. Okay, let's take those in order. We said a little bit about the migration to v5. We're not a million miles away from completing that. We are obviously being sensitive about the way that we bring those customers forward. And we want to make sure that we can move people on to Alfa 5 at a time that works for both them and us, but we're not a million miles away from completing all that work. Looking at Alfa 6, your point whether a net new customer will take some components of Alfa 6 actually is a really good question. Because Alfa 6 is, from an upgradability perspective, is an evolution of Alfa 5. If somebody were to go live with us in the middle of 2024, then they would have at least the building blocks of half of Alfa 6. And that's a very important point because we've designed 6 to be a functional upgrade rather than a technical upgrade. So it's being released incrementally through the year. The new sales, actually not something that we thought about all that much. So thank you for the question, which has passed that line of thought. Actually, what is out there in our late-stage pipeline at the moment and the recent sales that we've been able to announce are generally actually conquest sales. So those are customers -- new customers that were originally running on competitor systems. So clearly, that's pleasing. But our goal is to get Alfa to as much of the market as possible, whatever their extant platform. And the other question, I've forgotten your question, Gautam.

It was on net retention rates. I think the best way of describing it is we've never lost a v5 customer that we've lost to a competitor. We've had two customers who've exited either their portfolio or the business. And so they've, in one case, merged with another Alfa customer, so we kept that business. And the other one, they sold the business, and it went on to the other party's system. But we've never lost v5 in a competitive tender.

Fantastic. Thank you, Duncan.

And are you -- that's helpful. Are you seeing -- or are you able to push more modules in your existing customers from an upsell, cross-sell standpoint as well?

Yes, absolutely. I mean, Duncan makes one of the most salient points that anybody could make on our business model. Customer retention is part of the power of increasing our subscription revenue base. Because of the length of time the customers stay with us is always going to be beyond as we've recently pointed out the length that we calculate within our total contracted value, for instance. So that's a huge amount of power in increasing our subscription revenue stream. By keeping those customers with us, the amount that we invest in our software, that is a platform for incremental sales. And we note, as I noted to James, that there are 10 sellable new modules as part of the Alfa 6 release. But actually, outside of major new releases, we are always releasing new modules, which gives us an opportunity to go and upsell to existing customers.

The next question comes from the line of Harvey Robinson from Panmure Gordon.

Can I just go back to James' question on market? Matthew talked about originations, and you answered some questions on that. Could you give us a feel for how big that might be as a sort of new feature set in the U.S.? I really haven't got any idea how big that is. Second question, related, commercial loans, obviously, had a lead customer there for a while. I think in interims, you talked about some sales efforts behind that, and you again called it out today. Could you just give a feel for what the traction is on that? And the final sort of TAM market share question really is I believe in the v6, or Alfa Systems 6, I think you prefer to call it, entity-level close is a big thing. Could you just give us a feel for why that's so important? I believe it's very important.

Yes, brilliant, great questions. Let's start with the traction around license. As you rightly say, that has the capability and increasing the addressable market massively and something that's in our medium- to long-range strategic plans. We've got a pretty full investment agenda in H1 around completing Alfa System 6. And we'll touch on originations in a second, which is a big fillip for the TAM. Loans, I think you'll probably see a little bit more action from us in terms of our plans when we come back and we talk to you at the half year point. So perhaps I'll defer a more detailed question on loans until then. Originations, I'll speak to the addressable market impact thematically if that's okay. It's a very large part of the U.S. auto in particular. So let's focus on that. Large U.S. auto players tend to have three main areas of software demand, wholesale, and Matthew talks to the real tangible results we're getting in that area, the back-end administration systems, the core Alfa functionality. And then originations is the final piece in the trinity there. What I can say is that whole organizations, an example would be, I'll name-check one, defi, a big part of their business is in originations. And they're not the only ones. So if it's enough to sustain a business or a large part of a business, then certainly it's going to be a material opportunity for us in addressable market. But also, at least as interesting, it will increase the depth and the breadth of the defensive moat that we have in U.S. auto, which, as you know, has become a real key target market for us. I certainly won't pass up on the open door to talk about entity-level close. It's massive. Forever and a day, large back-end systems have run on old technology because of the volumes involved. And we've definitely fixed that when we released Alfa 5. And we've taken head-on this idea that systems couldn't run millions of agreements and thousands of users on a modern technology stack. And we've been doing that for a very long time now. One of the things though that has been an itch, if you like, that we wanted to scratch is this idea of having some degree of overnight processing and a restricted use of the system. It's always possible to use any system 24/7. But you are definitely praying. And we see that, frankly, with some of our competitors. Because any record lock would see them have issues with the system. What we've done is we have taken out the idea of any restricted processing time with entity-level close, giving true 24/7 digital capability, always on but in a completely safe state. It's increasing the speed of what we can do. It's increasing the availability of the software, particularly for these large consumer organizations that we're dealing with. Another quick note about entity-level close though is that it also solves one of the issues that one has when deploying multi-countries. Less so in Europe, but imagine if you were deploying in, say, the Midwest of the U.S. as well as South America, you don't quite know when you would actually close the working day. And being able to take away that issue is also important for the large global implementations that we're now working in. But alongside Compose, we believe that, that's real game-changing capability for large-scale financial enterprise systems.

There are no further questions. So I will now hand over to Andrew Denton for some closing remarks.

Thank you. Hopefully, we've captured everything that we want to say in the presentation and the notes. It's a year that we're really proud of, particularly in terms of what we've achieved with our product and our progress we've made with our overall strategy, increasing the way that we have our subscription revenues on the actual revenue side but also within our TCV going forward. And again, we've made the point a few times, that is not without headwinds. So we're really proud that we've been able to deliver that progress and maintain that strong Rule of 40 financial performance as we go. So it just remains for me to thank the Alfa team. Because it's them that do the amazing everyday miracles day-after-day reliably. And to Matthew's point, that's why retention is so important to us. We want to keep that group together. And it is an enormous endorsement of the strength of the Alfa culture that such talented people want to stay within the Alfa family for our journey. So thanks to them. And also, thanks to those of you that made the call this morning, we're grateful for your time. Speak to all you soon, I hope.